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jtaylor2010
10-03-2018, 03:52 PM
I know there are a few trolls here, and even serious posters sometimes get caught up in their online persona(myself included though I try to do a good job of avoiding just posting what I think people want or expect me to say). But can we be serious for a few minutes because I have an honest question....there aren’t really males over the age of 25 who support what the Democratic Party has done for the past 2 years, right? I don’t really see any way that they could but some of them seem so adamant about it, like it can’t just be a troll job. Do you think there is, or does it seem incomprehensible to you as well??

SillieBazzillie
10-03-2018, 03:54 PM
When idiot Trump is the candidate the other side looks normal.

ScottTil
10-03-2018, 03:55 PM
Well, what have they done exactly? Current state of affairs with the Kav hearing is an obvious disgrace that will cost them the midterms.

Seatard
10-03-2018, 04:01 PM
Yeah, I don't know what "the Democratic Party" has done specifically.

There a bunch of Democrats that have done some questionable chit. There are a bunch of Republicans who have done some questionable chit.

I don't know how much of it can specifically be traced back to an organized effort by some sort of party leadership.

BrocepCurls
10-03-2018, 04:02 PM
That's funny OP because I know there are a few trolls here, and even serious posters sometimes get caught up in their online persona(myself included though I try to do a good job of avoiding just posting what I think people want or expect me to say). But can we be serious for a few minutes because I have an honest question....there aren’t really males over the age of 25 who support what the Republican Party has done for the past 2 years, right? I don’t really see any way that they could but some of them seem so adamant about it, like it can’t just be a troll job. Do you think there is, or does it seem incomprehensible to you as well??

BullittEV
10-03-2018, 04:02 PM
Yeah, I don't know what "the Democratic Party" has done specifically.



Because they havent done anything to get voters except for attracting those that just want Trump gone. That's not a message, that's autism.

If you want to talk about what the DNC has done, well... lol we can get into that as well.

MikeLowrrrey
10-03-2018, 04:03 PM
Once I watched Malcolm X and his thoughts on the Democrats/Liberal party my suspicion had been confirmed.

They aren't who they say they are. Both parties suck ass tbh.


Don't wanna change this to a black/white thing
0Jfp0_vIn2U

LaoHu7
10-03-2018, 04:05 PM
no you forgot to use srs tag

icetrauma
10-03-2018, 04:08 PM
All they have done for the past 2 yrs is have a policy of obstruct at all cost. They have refused to work on bipartisan bills just as, some of the Republicans have refused to do so as well. Other than the current platform of obstructionism, they are running on higher taxes, open boarders, universal healthcare and everything Trump is for.

gachase21
10-03-2018, 04:08 PM
I think it was difficult for any normal professional businessman to stomach Trump as a legitimate political or even professional figure.

I struggled with that greatly myself.


The DNC , even prior to Trump and especially now, helped ease any hesitancies(even is well founded) with their completely outlandish approach and position on pretty much everything.


The same phenomenon created an odd appreciation of trumps anti-political correct rhetoric at for normal professional businessman who would normally abhor such behavior in leaders.


The appreciation of the “fight back” is part also.


So for the over 25 category this leaves only people with some form of mental impairment or psychological disorder that prevents them from escaping their long time self created false reality (that is often coupled in extreme loyalty with this type)

The men over 25 that “#walkaway” or left the dnc (who were formally part of the base) in 2016 are the “see it like it is” reality type that just doesn’t have the unreasonable political reality.

Ten_Hearts
10-03-2018, 04:10 PM
I know there are a few trolls here, and even serious posters sometimes get caught up in their online persona(myself included though I try to do a good job of avoiding just posting what I think people want or expect me to say). But can we be serious for a few minutes because I have an honest question....there aren’t really males over the age of 25 who support what the Democratic Party has done for the past 2 years, right? I don’t really see any way that they could but some of them seem so adamant about it, like it can’t just be a troll job. Do you think there is, or does it seem incomprehensible to you as well??

I support the democratic party. Not everything they do but I support more their actions than I do the Republican party. I'd prefer politics not be so divided, or at least if divided be nice to have a few more parties.

icetrauma
10-03-2018, 04:11 PM
I support the democratic party. Not everything they do but I support more their actions than I do the Republican party. I'd prefer politics not be so divided, or at least if divided be nice to have a few more parties.

Which parts do you agree with and which parts do you not agree with?

Tamorlane
10-03-2018, 04:13 PM
You'd lean democrat if you want:

-environmental protection
-civil rights protection
-to preserve democracy and the middle class
-an educated society (ie. GOP want creationism taught in schools)
-secularism
-to do something about the gun epidemic
-fair elections
-restore relations with US' traditional allies
-peace over war

Both sold out the people and work for money power. Both are being hijacked by extremists who hate each other.

SillieBazzillie
10-03-2018, 04:13 PM
Kim Kardashian is POTUS. Oh that's right, she's actually a self made man.

Trump is nothing but a silver spoon narcissist who you people fell for despite my gen thinking he's nothing but a side show clown.

Of course that keeping brown people out spoke bigly to y'al.

Trapstar4.4
10-03-2018, 04:22 PM
I'm going to keep this super high level because there is alot wrong with your question

You expect a large portion of the population (males under 25) to have aligned opinions about what a political party has done over the past 2 years. Any question that stems from that kind of concept is a complete waste of time to think about. The other reality is that you discredit yourself by even posing that kind of question

jlick
10-03-2018, 04:22 PM
You'd lean democrat if you want:

-environmental protection a tax aint going to save the earth
-civil rights protection i guess you are completly unaware of the democrats party history on civil rights
-to preserve democracy and the middle class thats rich....democrat policies actively destroy the middle and lower class
-an educated society (ie. GOP want creationism taught in schools) and lefties want to teach little kids about transgenders and allow men to go in the womens bathroom.
-secularism
-to do something about the gun epidemic what epidemic? Have you read the constitution?
-fair elections this is great. have a super delegate. or a vote from a dead person
-restore relations with US' traditional allies lets just ignore all the trade deals that have been renegotiated
-peace over war lol. You said a lot of stupid things, but this one might take the cake, especially if you voted for Hillary Clinton.

Both sold out the people and work for money power. Both are being hijacked by extremists who hate each other.lolololololol you really do live in a fantasy land.

Ten_Hearts
10-03-2018, 04:38 PM
Which parts do you agree with and which parts do you not agree with?

In short I don't always agree with making everything an issue and Democrats should try to reach across the isle more. I don't always agree on issues of taxation (but I don't necessarily agree with what Republicans did either), don't particularly agree with the opinions on the second amendment. Didn't agree with elements of trade deals.

As far as agree, I do believe in strong social programs. What I view as a more even handed approach to foreign policy. I do follow more of democratic leanings in terms of civil rights, consumer/workers rights, and environmental issues.

BullittEV
10-03-2018, 04:40 PM
In short I don't always agree with making everything an issue and Democrats should try to reach across the isle more. I don't always agree on issues of taxation (but I don't necessarily agree with what Republicans did either), don't particularly agree with the opinions on the second amendment. Didn't agree with elements of trade deals.

As far as agree, I do believe in strong social programs. What I view as a more even handed approach to foreign policy. I do follow more of democratic leanings in terms of civil rights, consumer/workers rights, and environmental issues.

so youre a classic liberal

dont you realize your party has been hijacked by regressives? Your liberal senators gave in to the mob. Sucks.

Retoaded
10-03-2018, 04:40 PM
You'd lean democrat if you want:

-environmental protection
-civil rights protection
-to preserve democracy and the middle class
-an educated society (ie. GOP want creationism taught in schools)
-secularism
-to do something about the gun epidemic
-fair elections
-restore relations with US' traditional allies
-peace over war

Both sold out the people and work for money power. Both are being hijacked by extremists who hate each other.

this entire list is hilarious but the best is civil rights protection from an admitted racist.

preserving the middle class is pretty funny too.

wait no fair elections is the funniest.

I dunno I can't decide which is better.

PowersKenny
10-03-2018, 04:41 PM
I don't take anyone under 25, barely out of college to know anything about anything..no troll it's called that's life son

gluon
10-03-2018, 04:41 PM
funny how its always the same 3-4 hyper liberals always posting their talking points vs the rest of the misc

lmao really tells you everything you need to know about the left

Tamorlane
10-03-2018, 04:43 PM
a tax aint going to save the earth

Agreed. But human-caused global warming is scientifically proven. Even confirmed by Exxon Mobil. In some decades from now it will be too late, and the deniers will be non-existent almost as if someone denied an internet was ever possible wouldn't exist in today's world with a loud voice. And this isn't just talking about global warming but protecting rivers, parks, forests, etc. from destruction and pollution - most often by corporations looking to save money at the cost of the planet.


i guess you are completly unaware of the democrats party history on civil rights

Throughout history, it was progressives looking to promote civil liberties (women's suffrage, black rights, gay rights, etc.). It was always the conservatives (usually whites in America) who were resistant to the change. If you saw a white girl yelling at a black girl on her first day of school, that white girl would likely hold traditional, conservative beliefs:

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news_and_politics/history_lesson/2011/10/111011_CB_margolick_EX.jpg.CROP.promovar-mediumlarge.jpg


thats rich....democrat policies actively destroy the middle and lower class

There's nothing in the Republican party that helps the middle and lower class except a booming economy. Republican policies are individualistic. Throughout history regimes and states have had a very few at the top with the vast majority of the wealth, and the rest of the population at the bottom. Right wing fiscal policies help those at the top.

The middle class is a phenomenon unique to democracies. The democratic principles and policies are designed to preserve the middle class, increasing their wealth while also providing a stepping stone for the poor to also enter the middle class. They also seek to tax the wealthiest to 'pay their fair share' to help the middle class. The wealthy, as it is now, do tremendously well in regards to 'new wealth'.


what epidemic? Have you read the constitution?

The US has a mass shooting problem that no other country faces, and it's in large part due to the amount of guns in existence. The NRA created propaganda campaigns during Obama's presidency and gun sales skyrocketed in fear of the government taking them away. The US has people, including small children, being shot up in their classrooms, shopping malls, concert events, etc.

Of 23 high-income countries, the US accounts for 50% of the population of those 23 countries. Yet the US is responsible for 80% of all gun deaths. 90% of all children deaths by guns. That's a problem. Just today, 5 officers shot. They are often the ones telling us that they are outmatched with these high capacity weapons designed for killing, not hunting.

I agree with the 2nd amendment and the right to protect yourself by the way. Especially in a country that is violent.


and lefties want to teach little kids about transgenders and allow men to go in the womens bathroom.

Most rational people wouldn't agree with that or are resistant, this movement is part of the extremism taking over the left.


lets just ignore all the trade deals that have been renegotiated

It's not ignored...but if you think US-Canada relations, or those between the US and NATO/UN haven't been damaged then you are mistaken. Trump has taken a nationalist, US-first approach. He likes authoritarian dictators like Putin, Xe, Dueterte, Un, etc. He doesn't like people like Merkel or Trudeau. He also chose the side of the Russians over the American people working for the intelligence communities. And by attacking them and going to war with them to discredit the special counsel investigation, he's done longlasting harm to the republic perception of the intelligence agencies as if they are the enemy of the right wing.


lol. You said a lot of stupid things, but this one might take the cake, especially if you voted for Hillary Clinton.

Peace over war is the stupidest thing? I think that says enough about you. Who i'd wager has never seen a day of combat or lived through a war. And no I didn't vote for Clinton, so what next.

SmithMachineGuy
10-03-2018, 04:46 PM
I think they are serious. The stuff I see on social media feeds...it's scary how brainwashed by SJWness people have become.

RespectYourself
10-03-2018, 04:46 PM
From an outsiders perspective it's really noticeable how polarised US politics is. I reckon if you put opposing supporters in a room together to discuss common issues they'd get along just fine. Politics is a strange beast.

turk75
10-03-2018, 04:47 PM
OURy5WFp0zk

The demokkkratic party has and will always be a party of: Hate, racism, ignorance, stupidity & violence.

jtaylor2010
10-03-2018, 04:56 PM
I'm going to keep this super high level because there is alot wrong with your question

You expect a large portion of the population (males under 25) to have aligned opinions about what a political party has done over the past 2 years. Any question that stems from that kind of concept is a complete waste of time to think about. The other reality is that you discredit yourself by even posing that kind of question


My “over 25” criteria was included because it’s more understandable for someone in their early 20’s to be more idealistic. But fair enough about the general post....I wasn’t really being serious and knew full-well that it was a contradictory or hypocritical post. It was partly to take a jab at the hyper-partisan leftists on here(and yes I understand there are lots on the other side here as well) and only a halfway serious question that I didn’t expect serious responses to, though it looks like there may be hope for this thread.

My question was moreso about the general leadership of the Democratic Party and the message being sent out from the top. They call for harassment of the other side, talk about the white privilege in this country, now want to wage a gender war, and various other things. Obviously people should be able to support certain votes or approaches to certain issues without feeling the need to defend everything, but it seems that is becoming less common these days(perhaps even with myself included). There may be a few things I disagree with but overall I’m generally happy with things so far so I’ll put up with some dumb statements. I don’t think I’d be willing to defend lots of things we see from the left these days though, so while I understand there are issues like the environment or social issues that democrats disagree with, I find it odd that they’ll ignore so much stuff from the left(and yes I think we see a lot more detrimental stuff from the left than from the right overall).

Ten_Hearts
10-03-2018, 05:12 PM
so youre a classic liberal

dont you realize your party has been hijacked by regressives? Your liberal senators gave in to the mob. Sucks.


Gotta work with what you're given. I vote for whoever I agree with on more platform issues or what I think will promote the best balance. One reason I may vote for Hogan is to provide some balance in law making against a democratic super majority in MD. I might even agree with Republicans on more economic and trade issues but they seem to like a sledge hammer type approach which I can't get behind.

seekingainz
10-03-2018, 05:16 PM
Yeah, I don't know what "the Democratic Party" has done specifically.

There a bunch of Democrats that have done some questionable chit. There are a bunch of Republicans who have done some questionable chit.

I don't know how much of it can specifically be traced back to an organized effort by some sort of party leadership.

Did you not even notice how the DNC royally screwed Bernie so they could have the vagina candidate?

U SRS bro?

tyqb4
10-03-2018, 05:19 PM
I view it more as a race to the bottom. I don't support the direction of either party but at the same time I'm kind of forced to choose the party that is relatively less bad. Haven't decided how I'm going to vote for 2018 yet.

recedingjaw
10-03-2018, 05:20 PM
You'd lean democrat if you want
-to preserve democracy and the middle class
This is debatable. Big government policies don't preserve the middle class at all, nor do they help the poor in the long run. When you tax the sh*t out of job creators, you're gonna have a bad time. It's no wonder we had the worst/slowest recovery since WWII under Obama along with low business confidence.

RSM3
10-03-2018, 05:29 PM
Honest answer here - not trying to troll or be offensive :

I support close to everything that the Democratic Party has done over the past 2 years, because they have not really done much besides generally oppose Trump. And Trump is, in my opinion, tremendously harmful to the United States for a variety of reasons.


But lettuce be real : They have almost no power, and there is close to nothing that they CAN do right now, particularly since the GOP has not really sought to compromise on many issues.



A few bad ideas that they've opposed, which I am glad they did include :
- Wall
- Tax cuts, especially as done
- Health-care butchery

I also think that Trump is just conning people, and that this will be accepted as fact in a very short time.


There, I can be polite. I am a very well-informed individual that can make a rational argument for everything I said, whether anyone agrees with it or not.

Tamorlane
10-03-2018, 05:29 PM
This is debatable. Big government policies don't preserve the middle class at all, nor do they help the poor in the long run.

-affordable housing
-healthcare
-disability
-social security
-food assistance
-energy subsidies
-education and child care
-promote unionization
-minimum wage
-veteran care
-lower prescription prices

Sometimes big government fails, such as protecting monopolies.


When you tax the sh*t out of job creators, you're gonna have a bad time.

They also have the most money. Should you instead tax the middle class and poor more?



It's no wonder we had the worst/slowest recovery since WWII under Obama along with low business confidence.

There was the 2007 financial crash which was the worst crisis since the great depression.

jlick
10-03-2018, 05:35 PM
Agreed. But human-caused global warming is scientifically proven. Even confirmed by Exxon Mobil. In some decades from now it will be too late, and the deniers will be non-existent almost as if someone denied an internet was ever possible wouldn't exist in today's world with a loud voice. And this isn't just talking about global warming but protecting rivers, parks, forests, etc. from destruction and pollution - most often by corporations looking to save money at the cost of the planet. I agree that humans have had an impact on the environment, but I don't think the democrats have came up with any better plans than the republicans. The reason I support republicans is because they are less interventionist than the left, and I believe a more free market will lead to more technological break-through that can actually save earth. Exessive regulation is not the answer, IMO. We need to be encouraging innovation, not subsidizing solar CEOs.




Throughout history, it was progressives looking to promote civil liberties (women's suffrage, black rights, gay rights, etc.). It was always the conservatives (usually whites in America) who were resistant to the change. If you saw a white girl yelling at a black girl on her first day of school, that white girl would likely hold traditional, conservative beliefs:

classic leftist technique trying to claim credit for work done by the republicans. Your knowledge of history is so skewed, it is not even funny. 60 years ago, the democrats voted against the civil rights act in a higher percentage than the republicans. Democrat politicians in the south actively fought against civil rights advancement for many years after that. Why do you think MLK Jr was a REPUBLICAN? How many white folks died in the civil war fighting to free the slaves in the south? Seriously, pick up a history book. Or just try taking your head out of your ass for a minute. I promise you the air is still breathable.




There's nothing in the Republican party that helps the middle and lower class except a booming economy. Republican policies are individualistic. Throughout history regimes and states have had a very few at the top with the vast majority of the wealth, and the rest of the population at the bottom. Right wing fiscal policies help those at the top. a booming economy has done more to bring people out of poverty than tax and redistribution ever has. This isn't even debatable. If you want an example, look at how china has moved away from a heavily restricted market to more of a free market economy and see how millions of Chinese have come out of poverty. How's that foodstamp program working out for low social economic status families here in America? How about Section 8?



The US has a mass shooting problem that no other country faces, and it's in large part due to the amount of guns in existence. The NRA created propaganda campaigns during Obama's presidency and gun sales skyrocketed in fear of the government taking them away. The US has people, including small children, being shot up in their classrooms, shopping malls, concert events, etc.

Of 23 high-income countries, the US accounts for 50% of the population of those 23 countries. Yet the US is responsible for 80% of all gun deaths. 90% of all children deaths by guns. That's a problem. Just today, 5 officers shot. They are often the ones telling us that they are outmatched with these high capacity weapons designed for killing, not hunting.

I agree with the 2nd amendment and the right to protect yourself by the way. Especially in a country that is violent. I am glad we can both agree on the 2nd amendment being an important right granted to Americans. I hope you never change from that view. But in typical leftist fashion, you use skewed numbers or factually incorrect numbers to argue your point. If you took the time to look at numbers, you would see that a majority of gun related deaths are from suicide. The next largest category is from gang-related violence. And yes, I will agree that a mass shooting is a terrible thing, but there are many countries with higher murder rates than the USA. And there are other countries that have a higher rate of gun ownership than the USA, but less gun violence. The point is that more gun do not always equal a higher rate of crime, and this has been proven time and time again. We don't have a gun violence epidemic, we have a mental health epidemic.




Most rational people wouldn't agree with that or are resistant, this movement is part of the extremism taking over the left. glad we can find some more common ground, but this view is more common than you would believe, especially here in california.




It's not ignored...but if you think US-Canada relations, or those between the US and NATO/UN haven't been damaged then you are mistaken. Trump has taken a nationalist, US-first approach. He likes authoritarian dictators like Putin, Xe, Dueterte, Un, etc. He doesn't like people like Merkel or Trudeau. He also chose the side of the Russians over the American people working for the intelligence communities. And by attacking them and going to war with them to discredit the special counsel investigation, he's done longlasting harm to the republic perception of the intelligence agencies as if they are the enemy of the right wing. I am glad Trump is tough on our allies, especially if they were screwing us over. Of course Merkel and the UN are going to be mad at Trump since he cut the off the Tit. You would be mad too. I a ok with that.




Peace over war is the stupidest thing? I think that says enough about you. Who i'd wager has never seen a day of combat or lived through a war. And no I didn't vote for Clinton, so what next.I didn't say that peace over war is stupid, I said that voting for democrats because you want peace over war is a stupid reason because that is not the democrats platform at all. Remember when Obama said he would bring all the troops back home? We all know that didnt happen. for 8 years, ISIS grew and terrorist attacks were happening almost daily. Now, 2 years after Trump is president, ISIS is obliterated. We are finding peace in North Korea. We are making progress towards peace. Much more than if Hillary would have become President. I will say this, I am glad you didn't vote for Hillary.

acrawlingchaos
10-03-2018, 05:36 PM
My politics lies squarely with traditional moderate democratic values, but the party has become too unpalatable for me to vote for them with any confidence.

TheTrippyOne
10-03-2018, 05:40 PM
I know there are a few trolls here, and even serious posters sometimes get caught up in their online persona(myself included though I try to do a good job of avoiding just posting what I think people want or expect me to say). But can we be serious for a few minutes because I have an honest question....there aren’t really males over the age of 25 who support what the Democratic Party has done for the past 2 years, right? I don’t really see any way that they could but some of them seem so adamant about it, like it can’t just be a troll job. Do you think there is, or does it seem incomprehensible to you as well??

Absolutely, and it's the demographic that keeps growing.

I wasn't a Democrat until the 2016 election. Trump is a disaster and a joke, he has literally made our nation the laughingstock of the entire world and it's not getting any better. As a jock in high school I'd laugh with him but he's the ****ing president and he STILL acts like a jock in high school. He's a disgrace and so are everyone who supports his retarded ass.

It's like having ****ing Bozo for president.

gachase21
10-03-2018, 05:41 PM
I think this Democrat made a good post a while back somewhat applicable to the subject



There are still rust belt/blue dog democrats out there. I was raised as one just like you were OP. Strong families, union jobs, give back to the community, take care of the planet, don't start silly wars.

The thing that the left missed out on in the last election was that voters want to vote on issues that will help with the above. The upper midwest just wants their jobs back. Not suggesting that I think Trump will help them with that, but at least he spoke to them during the election. The Democratic party didn't make the rust belt democrat a priority and they got completely burned by it.

People on the misc don't always seem to understand the sections of the democratic party. As someone who has lived alongside a ton of different democrats, there's a few major components:

1. Radicals. Often issue-centric (feminism, trans rights, environmentalism, communism). Nothing more to say here, these people are annoying and detract from the party as a whole by not letting their agenda be a small component of a real agenda.

2. Younger "coastal" democrats: Socially liberal and okay with the party having social stances. Varying degrees of connection to the old tenets of the party. Completely unaware of the Rust-Belt Democrat unless they studied polysci and thus flabbergasted that OH, MI, WI went red for Trump. "Coastal" is an extremely loose term that I'm using to mean "from large metropolitan areas without historical reliance on manufacturing jobs (so not WI, MI, OH, WV, IN). Many of these areas just happen to be on the coast, so coastal it is.

3. Older "coastal" democrats: Socially liberal. Probably listening to NPR right now. Sold pot to your dad in the 70s. Varying degrees of connection to the old tenets of the party, strongest connections to environmentalism and antiwar sentiment. Not exactly dirty hippies by any stretch, often these people are polished successful professionals.

4. The Rust Belt: The forgotten man. Raised in union manufacturing or public service families. Surprisingly for some people, the union connection to the democratic party is a very locally/state representative driven relationship. My personal connection to union leadership has shown me their willingness to work with both sides if they think they will get what they are looking for. Union leadership wants local legislators who they trust will try to preserve the middle class salaries and benefits of their membership, in short. These rust-belt dems probably don't hate gays or trans people, they just don't understand why the Democratic party wont stfu about bathrooms and inclusivity when they got laid off by the plant 18 months ago. They were raised in the culture where if they worked hard like their dad, they were granted a good lifestyle as a result, firmly entrenched in the middle class. Increasingly, their social status has fallen and they watch the world become run by both conservative business moguls and hyper-educated, socially liberal, often intolerant of their lack of polished higher education, elitists. They like neither group, but voted for the mogul because he at least told them he wanted to bring their jobs back.

5. Young, Rust Belt: People more like me. I generally tend to support the social stances of the Democratic party, I just don't view them as front and center political issues at all. Economic issues take precedent, since my hometown crumbled before my eyes as middle class manufacturing and public service jobs left. My personal priorities protecting and expanding the middle class, ensuring health care, peaceful international relations when possible while ensuring security at home, and investing in renewable energy for reasons of both economic growth and environmentalism.

6. The Blue Dog: even I don't understand this guy, but remember that states like Oklahoma and Arkansas voted blue in the not-so-distant past.

TheTrippyOne
10-03-2018, 05:42 PM
My politics lies squarely with traditional moderate democratic values, but the party has become too unpalatable for me to vote for them with any confidence.

Unfortunately that means you stand with Trump whether you like it or not.

It's a sad dilemma that we have where we have two parties only that have any chance of having any impact but this is the way it is.

gachase21
10-03-2018, 05:43 PM
And my old roadmap post


Some of this is painful for me to type, but It's somewhat sad watching the democrat party completely fall apart.

You keep digging your hole deeper and deeper without even seeing it.

As much as I normally enjoy watching them lose, it is healthy for American to have at least a 2 party system. Having only 1 party could lead to more problems and corruption over time.

As much as I hate some of this, out of the kindness of my heart this one time I'm handing them a free roadmap to recovery.

1.Disassociate the party from Hillary and all of the Hillary influenced DNC crew.

2. Drop the "Russia collusion" campaign completely from any talking point or discussion. It's just silly and turns off voters(traditional blue collar Dems) from thinking you give a crap about real problems they have. It's too much work to recovery Hillary's lost and futile credibility and attempt to excuse her loss, as well as thwart Trumps mandate.

3. Back off the sjw crap. You don't have to end it, but just back off some. This sect of your party is a very small minority, but they are so loud and whinny it annoys some of your deep base. Some of the fundamental rights issues they fight for(and should) get mixed in with too many silly over the top ideas(transgender children, bathrooms, man boy love, etc)

4. Accept reality of why you lost and why you are loosing. Denial is killing you. The first step to recovery is accepting reality :-)

5. Pick back up and exploit your traditional middle class worker type issues.(some of which I hate the most)

-free college or tuition assistance

-Student loan repayment handouts

-Minimum wage increases

-Workers protection rights
BS like this http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/05/31/new-york-city-law-gives-fast-food-workers-scheduling-rights.html

-Union worker incentive and protections

-Immigration control- yes a traditional democrat idea to protect American middle class workers

-Trade policies- same as above - damnit rebubs are supposed to be free trade(like me) , wtf it's backwards now

-Class warfare tax BS

-Extended fmla and maternity leave wage payment programs

-Unemployment adult job training assistance(traddies).

6. Accept reality that Obamacare is doomed and create a universal healthcare plan- Bold move but the type of Americans you want votes from have been trained to accept it now and will embrace it to replace the current system. This is a lib step too far in some eyes, but sanders proved American might have enough votes out there to be ready for it.

7. Environment: Focus on pollution and toxic material reductions- everyone can relate to that, as well as national park and forestry protection(you'll get your rednecks back).

8. Don't let BLM groups over-consume you: your base also likes good police.

9. Frigging beef up veteran support- seriously wtf this was always your strong suit.



This is 1 time free advice, out of the kindness of my heart. After this I will have to take PayPal for any more.

NitrogenWidget
10-03-2018, 05:47 PM
I know there are a few trolls here, and even serious posters sometimes get caught up in their online persona(myself included though I try to do a good job of avoiding just posting what I think people want or expect me to say). But can we be serious for a few minutes because I have an honest question....there aren’t really males over the age of 25 who support what the Democratic Party has done for the past 2 years, right? I don’t really see any way that they could but some of them seem so adamant about it, like it can’t just be a troll job. Do you think there is, or does it seem incomprehensible to you as well??


When idiot Trump is the candidate the other side looks normal.

Until I see sillie log into his account on bb.com in person I will never believe he isn't a neck-beard living in his mother's basement and posting pics of his dad.
Why?
Because i'm divorced and only have my kids half the week with a desk job (stem) and I don't have half the free time he does to post on bb.com.

so no, I don't believe there are a lot of "men" over the age of 25 who are liberals.
They may not like trump but they are confused on who to vote for and do not support the insanity.
Lot of them are pissed about Bernie getting it dry though.

FYI Sillie, i'll be in baltimore in april, we should grab a beer.
If you have ID. ;)

I respect the trolling.

acrawlingchaos
10-03-2018, 05:48 PM
Unfortunately that means you stand with Trump whether you like it or not.

It's a sad dilemma that we have where we have two parties only that have any chance of having any impact but this is the way it is.Naw... I just throw my vote away on 3rd parties. :(

Besides, the weird things about President Trump is some of policies are surprisingly Democratic. If it wasn't for his fat f*cking mouth, he would remind me of Kennedy Democrat.

RSM3
10-03-2018, 05:49 PM
"Drop the Russia collusion" is such a weird thing to say.

You might as well say "Don't try to know things." How smart would that sound, besides not very ?


Our election was hacked and tampered with, in a clear attack on our nation, and........we're supposed to not even find out precisely what happened ?

Because.....a lot of people support the guy being investigated ? Because of their feels ?

Insanity.

Trapstar4.4
10-03-2018, 05:50 PM
My “over 25” criteria was included because it’s more understandable for someone in their early 20’s to be more idealistic. But fair enough about the general post....I wasn’t really being serious and knew full-well that it was a contradictory or hypocritical post. It was partly to take a jab at the hyper-partisan leftists on here(and yes I understand there are lots on the other side here as well) and only a halfway serious question that I didn’t expect serious responses to, though it looks like there may be hope for this thread.

My question was moreso about the general leadership of the Democratic Party and the message being sent out from the top. They call for harassment of the other side, talk about the white privilege in this country, now want to wage a gender war, and various other things. Obviously people should be able to support certain votes or approaches to certain issues without feeling the need to defend everything, but it seems that is becoming less common these days(perhaps even with myself included). There may be a few things I disagree with but overall I’m generally happy with things so far so I’ll put up with some dumb statements. I don’t think I’d be willing to defend lots of things we see from the left these days though, so while I understand there are issues like the environment or social issues that democrats disagree with, I find it odd that they’ll ignore so much stuff from the left(and yes I think we see a lot more detrimental stuff from the left than from the right overall).

still sounds pointless because that question is entirely too high level. youre asking about general leadership when the country is hyper polarized due to handling of specific issues. general leadersship will not be a factor in midterm voting.

everybody has topics that they feel strongly about that will drive their votes. you wont hear, "well ya know, the general leadership has been pooor so im voting this way"

fck no. the country is insanely polarized for specific reasons, and it's about to get worse then this vote happens in a couple days. the country is going to go nuclear with teh amount of tensions that are going to come from this kavanaugh thing

icetrauma
10-03-2018, 05:50 PM
Naw... I just throw my vote away on 3rd parties. :(

Besides, the weird things about President Trump is some of policies are surprisingly Democratic. If it wasn't for his fat f*cking mouth, he would remind me of Kennedy Democrat.

He was a Democrat before running on the Republican ticket.

jlick
10-03-2018, 05:52 PM
He was a Democrat before running on the Republican ticket.Crazy how soon as he became a republican, he always became a racist and rapist. makes you wonder.

gachase21
10-03-2018, 05:55 PM
"Drop the Russia collusion" is such a weird thing to say.

You might as well say "Don't try to know things." How smart would that sound, besides not very ?


Our election was hacked and tampered with, in a clear attack on our nation, and........we're supposed to not even find out precisely what happened ?

Because.....a lot of people support the guy being investigated ? Because of their feels ?

Insanity.

It’s a normal occurrence it’s being handled ridiculously with an. Erroneous us set up for a special counsel - it does nothing but hurt the democrats and the nation some


There should be no special council on this , nor a main focus on Trump


Oh for fuk sakes


1. Trump would have won this election regardless.

2. Russia has been trying to influence US elections since the 60s, every single presidential election since then.

3. The Democrats have their panties in a wad because this time Russia wasn't on their side like they normally are.

4. Russia absolutely tried to influence this election and it should be fully investigated.

5. Russia finnaly needs consequences for this behavior.

6. The irony of Democrats ignoring and disregarding this behavior until this election is laughable.

7. The irony of the Obama administration's intelligence apparatus that easily foster's this behavior is laughable.

8. We have some similar interest in partnering with Russia in certain things, but it is na�ve as fuk to think we all of the sudden should be best friends with Russia. Make no mistake they are our adversary and behavior like this should be dealt with.

9. Along with rebuilding the military Trump needs to rebuild our intelligence apparatus and show US strength when things like this are attempted against us. This calls for sanctions on a minimum.

10. Ignoring and disregarding this kind of behavior by Russia will lead to much greater problems in the future, it's time to make U.S. Alpha again and so them we will not put up with this crap. If we do they will exploit our weakness and na�ve mentality and use it against us at some point.

acrawlingchaos
10-03-2018, 05:58 PM
He was a Democrat before running on the Republican ticket.And now democrats are simply opposition now and have completely disregarded their own politics in favor of flinging sh*t. I am beyond disappointed.


Crazy how soon as he became a republican, he always became a racist and rapist. makes you wonder.Well Mr. Pecker did a lot of catch and kill for him, and I think running for POTUS thrusts you even more into the light and people scrutinize much more carefully.

SillieBazzillie
10-03-2018, 05:59 PM
Until I see sillie log into his account on bb.com in person I will never believe he isn't a neck-beard living in his mother's basement and posting pics of his dad.
Why?
Because i'm divorced and only have my kids half the week with a desk job (stem) and I don't have half the free time he does to post on bb.com.

so no, I don't believe there are a lot of "men" over the age of 25 who are liberals.
They may not like trump but they are confused on who to vote for and do not support the insanity.
Lot of them are pissed about Bernie getting it dry though.

FYI Sillie, i'll be in baltimore in april, we should grab a beer.
If you have ID. ;)

I respect the trolling.

Contact me bro. I love to meet those with divergent views.

Tamorlane
10-03-2018, 06:03 PM
I agree that humans have had an impact on the environment, but I don't think the democrats have came up with any better plans than the republicans. The reason I support republicans is because they are less interventionist than the left, and I believe a more free market will lead to more technological break-through that can actually save earth. Exessive regulation is not the answer, IMO. We need to be encouraging innovation, not subsidizing solar CEOs.

The 'better plan' by democrats is to gradually shift toward renewable energy sources. The republican legislators are in the pockets of the fossil fuel industry and their team of lobbyists. They are the ones promoting disinformation campaigns so that they can continue to maximize profit and influence. The GOP are the only major political party in the developed world promoting anti-climate change propaganda and the reason is money. A free market isn't going to solve the global warming problem with innovation. Corporations and industrialization are the main cause of the planet's destruction.

China is leading the world in renewable energy investment because they don't care about partisan politics, they care about the future of their country. Notice how China's attitude toward the future of the country coincides with the democrats in regards to renewable investments.



classic leftist technique trying to claim credit for work done by the republicans. Your knowledge of history is so skewed, it is not even funny. 60 years ago, the democrats voted against the civil rights act in a higher percentage than the republicans. Democrat politicians in the south actively fought against civil rights advancement for many years after that. Why do you think MLK Jr was a REPUBLICAN? How many white folks died in the civil war fighting to free the slaves in the south? Seriously, pick up a history book. Or just try taking your head out of your ass for a minute. I promise you the air is still breathable.

I'm not talking about the names of political parties. I'm talking about progressives looking to change society and conservatives looking to preserve the traditional values.

Politifact did a piece on the claim that MLK was a republican. They rated it 'false'.

"It is disingenuous to imply that my father was a Republican," Martin Luther King III, the civil rights leader’s son, told The Associated Press in 2008. "He never endorsed any presidential candidate, and there is certainly no evidence that he ever even voted for a Republican."


Martin Luther King Jr. had harsh words for both major political parties, experts say.



a booming economy has done more to bring people out of poverty than tax and redistribution ever has. This isn't even debatable.

Yes a booming economy likely has, as it facilitates business to gain more profit which allows them to hire more people who can spend their pay checks and not have to scrape by. But a booming economy doesn't always last. The great depression is a testament. After that disaster, government stepped in and started taxing higher when the economy was doing well and lowering taxation when the economy dipped. And a booming economy won't necessarily help your grandparents, the veteran, the widow, the sick, the disabled, etc.


I am glad we can both agree on the 2nd amendment being an important right granted to Americans. I hope you never change from that view. But in typical leftist fashion, you use skewed numbers or factually incorrect numbers to argue your point. If you took the time to look at numbers, you would see that a majority of gun related deaths are from suicide. The next largest category is from gang-related violence. And yes, I will agree that a mass shooting is a terrible thing, but there are many countries with higher murder rates than the USA. And there are other countries that have a higher rate of gun ownership than the USA, but less gun violence. The point is that more gun do not always equal a higher rate of crime, and this has been proven time and time again. We don't have a gun violence epidemic, we have a mental health epidemic.

Those numbers are from the most reputable study on gun violence to date by the American Journal of Medicine. Keep in mind the NRA has successfully lobbied to block the government from studying gun violence.
http://amjmed.org/violent-death-rates-us-vs-22-other-countries/

You say there are countries with higher rates of gun ownership. That isn't true. It's not even close. The US has more guns than people. The second country doesn't even have half that amount and it's war-torn.

The most violent countries in international rankings are third world nations. Compare the US to countries like Canada, Germany, Norway and Switzerland and you have a very different picture.

We can argue statistics but in the end there certainly appears to be a gun violence problem in the US. I support gun rights and ownership for hunting and self defense, but I also would want to promote the safety of the country's children, police officers and people overall.



I didn't say that peace over war is stupid, I said that voting for democrats because you want peace over war is a stupid reason because that is not the democrats platform at all. Remember when Obama said he would bring all the troops back home? We all know that didnt happen. for 8 years, ISIS grew and terrorist attacks were happening almost daily. Now, 2 years after Trump is president, ISIS is obliterated. We are finding peace in North Korea. We are making progress towards peace. Much more than if Hillary would have become President. I will say this, I am glad you didn't vote for Hillary.

The liberals and democrats by nature of their ideology are more likely to promote diplomacy over aggression. The right wing are more likely to promote aggression (US foreign policy, war, military support).

You complain that Obama didn't remove troops like he said he would, but turn a blind eye to the republican who entered two useless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, costing US tax payers trillions of dollars and countless lives lost.

rectifryer
10-03-2018, 06:03 PM
When wealth is distributed in a pareto distribution then you have to tax the highest earners otherwise there's no way to get enough taxes. There is no way around this. You have to either enslave the middle class or actually effectively tax businesses by removing loop holes.

NitrogenWidget
10-03-2018, 06:06 PM
Because they havent done anything to get voters except for attracting those that just want Trump gone. That's not a message, that's autism.

If you want to talk about what the DNC has done, well... lol we can get into that as well.

Well, their Plan before Obama was "anyone but Bush" It Failed.
I wasn't happy with Bush or Congress with the initial "invasion" of the middle east the number of troops in the Surge later on should of been the initial force.
The private contractors was all BS.
Plus republican candidates just wern't that good.
Congress was /fail since they approved it all then acted like they were duped instead of standing behind him like they should have.

The media was posting U.S. death counts daily (even had a ticker on their web sites) right up until Obama's inauguration and they barely reported his drone bombings.
Fuk, A lot of people didn't even know we were still in Afghanistan because of the media or ignorance.

Even with that retard Biden and all the stupid chit he said Obama was the better candidate so of course he won.

But Trump, after the first presidential debate I knew he was our next President.
I still was shocked he won mind you.
Sort of like when you got an HBB naked in your bed willing and ready and you are like "is this real life?!?!?"
even though you knew as you took her home it was happening. ;)

But he also campaigned in in the right places at the end.
And that was what won it for him.

Very few presidents don't win a second term so Trump in 2020.

gachase21
10-03-2018, 06:08 PM
R.e.: “can we be serious”


I’ve probably been one of the worst offenders this year with that.


Partly because I want to establish a record making it almost impossible for me to consider running for politics again lol(prob still will happen though)

Also it’s so difficult to type at times I don’t feel like starting a real discussion I know I’ll need to adequately respond to as much as I used to.


I don’t know if it’s trolling or just messing around and having fun.



I do want to get back into being more serious again at some point


But definitely not as serious as I was previous years

Seatard
10-03-2018, 06:09 PM
Did you not even notice how the DNC royally screwed Bernie so they could have the vagina candidate?

U SRS bro?

Yeah, that was more than two years ago wasn't it?

Did you read the retarded OP?

jtaylor2010
10-03-2018, 06:10 PM
still sounds pointless because that question is entirely too high level. youre asking about general leadership when the country is hyper polarized due to handling of specific issues. general leadersship will not be a factor in midterm voting.

everybody has topics that they feel strongly about that will drive their votes. you wont hear, "well ya know, the general leadership has been pooor so im voting this way"

fck no. the country is insanely polarized for specific reasons, and it's about to get worse then this vote happens in a couple days. the country is going to go nuclear with teh amount of tensions that are going to come from this kavanaugh thing


Possibly, but at the end of the day it really comes down to the economy. If people feel safe and there are good opportunities/money to be made people will be hesitant to rock the boat imho. As far as the tensions...what/who do you think is driving it? Who preaches racial division? Who preaches intolerance of differing political views? Who preaches male privilege and pits men against women? Who tells gays and transgendered people that they must keep fighting against the evil system they live in? You can say that people don’t care about any of that and just vote on issues, but I’m surprised that so many have no problem making that side stronger and giving them even more of a voice to divide our country.

jtaylor2010
10-03-2018, 06:14 PM
When wealth is distributed in a pareto distribution then you have to tax the highest earners otherwise there's no way to get enough taxes. There is no way around this. You have to either enslave the middle class or actually effectively tax businesses by removing loop holes.


https://taxfoundation.org/summary-federal-income-tax-data-2017/

rectifryer
10-03-2018, 06:20 PM
https://taxfoundation.org/summary-federal-income-tax-data-2017/

I don't think you understand my point that since the VAST majority of wealth is at the top, we have no choice but to derive most of our taxes from them which is what that link shows. And no, we're not doing enough.

jtaylor2010
10-03-2018, 06:33 PM
I don't think you understand my point that since the VAST majority of wealth is at the top, we have no choice but to derive most of our taxes from them which is what that link shows. And no, we're not doing enough.

Or maybe we’re spending too much. Also, that just shows tax revenue and doesn’t include the vast amounts given to charities. The top 20% pays about 87% of the income taxes so it’s actually beyond the Pareto ratio. What do you think the ratio should be?

gachase21
10-03-2018, 06:35 PM
I don't think you understand my point that since the VAST majority of wealth is at the top, we have no choice but to derive most of our taxes from them which is what that link shows. And no, we're not doing enough.


Or maybe we’re spending too much. Also, that just shows tax revenue and doesn’t include the vast amounts given to charities. The top 20% pays about 87% of the income taxes so it’s actually beyond the Pareto ratio. What do you think the ratio should be?



Is this a discussion of wealth or income?

rectifryer
10-03-2018, 06:59 PM
Or maybe we’re spending too much. Also, that just shows tax revenue and doesn’t include the vast amounts given to charities. The top 20% pays about 87% of the income taxes so it’s actually beyond the Pareto ratio. What do you think the ratio should be?

Those ratios aren't representative of actual income of the wealthiest individuals because the wealth is stored in many ways. Apple is a trillion dollar business with an effective tax rate of 0%, etc...

Obviously that's not reflected in the numbers provided and is a huge issue with why we have such a wealth disparity. The definition of wealth and income is a loophole. If you read my original comment, this is what I am alluding to. We don't honestly and sincerely tabulate taxes in the same manner for everyone.

Also, pareto is a distribution, not a specific ratio.

Azrairc
10-03-2018, 07:09 PM
Has anyone else noticed silliebazilles post content going from somewhat coherent to bizarre and unhinged ramblings over time?

Trump derangement syndrome is literally driving these people insane

gachase21
10-03-2018, 07:15 PM
^^^ the above tax conversation is a great example on why its difficult for me to stay serious.


Would take 20 paragraphs for me

dakensta
10-03-2018, 07:37 PM
I don't support it one iota.
I didn't support it when the repubs were doing similarly shady shyt before the election.
They are both guilty of kuntitude of such a magnitude that I don't see how anyone with
any kind of logically consistent morality can support either side at the moment.

SillieBazzillie
10-04-2018, 02:18 AM
Has anyone else noticed silliebazilles post content going from somewhat coherent to bizarre and unhinged ramblings over time?

Trump derangement syndrome is literally driving these people insane

Nah. I think that may just be regular dementia setting in.

Imagine my posting stylings in 5 years. I'll probably become a Q believer or a nords level fake news meme poster.

But no matter how demented I get, I'll never be as stupid and moronic as Mimsey or Wiggins for if I see that start to happen I take all the pieces of paper I have my passwords written on and burn them.