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View Full Version : Schiff Democratic Memo Just Released



gwg77
02-24-2018, 01:38 PM
here it is...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/24/read-full-text-democratic-intelligence-memo/370401002/

here is the document:
https://www.scribd.com/document/372309339/HSPCI-minority-memo#from_embed

Ephedra
02-24-2018, 01:40 PM
Gonna have to cliff me brah. Saturdays and paragraph reading doesn't mix.

gwg77
02-24-2018, 01:41 PM
Gonna have to cliff me brah. Saturdays and paragraph reading doesn't mix.

i'm reading through it now.

TaeBoNinja
02-24-2018, 01:44 PM
Gonna have to cliff me brah. Saturdays and paragraph reading doesn't mix.
Cliffs: "Wahhh wahhhh! Nune's memo is misleading, Steele had nothing to do with the FISA warrant *cough*, and Page is literally Hitler."

No wonder why they dropped it on a Saturday

~Hades~
02-24-2018, 01:48 PM
Cliffs: "Wahhh wahhhh! Nune's memo is misleading, Steele had nothing to deal to the FISA warrant *cough*, and Page is literally Hitler."

No wonder why they dropped it on a Saturday

Just read thru it and this is an accurate cliff of it

gwg77
02-24-2018, 01:55 PM
Cliffs: "Wahhh wahhhh! Nune's memo is misleading, Steele had nothing to do with the FISA warrant *cough*, and Page is literally Hitler."

No wonder why they dropped it on a Saturday

read the first few pages and this accurate. the key takeaway is the timeline that still asserts that the dossier was received in sept 2016 and then fisa warrant was approved in october, after numerous rejections without the dossier. so do the math. seems like schiff is dancing in cirlces and what gowdy said about the fisa warrant being granted only due to dossier still holds true.

~Hades~
02-24-2018, 01:56 PM
read the first few pages and this accurate. the key takeaway is the timeline that still asserts that the dossier was received in sept 2016 and then fisa warrant was approved in october, after numerous rejections without the dossier. so do the math. seems like schiff is dancing in cirlces and what gowdy said about the fisa warrant being granted only due to dossier still holds true.

I’m worried about gowdy leaving. Who else has balls like him

NKWulf
02-24-2018, 01:56 PM
inb4 Beowulfs 10 page dissertation on why this memo is correct and Nunes memo isnt.

jquin
02-24-2018, 01:57 PM
rebuttal democratmemo.jew

dabbmw2002
02-24-2018, 02:00 PM
Cliffs: "Wahhh wahhhh! Nune's memo is misleading, Steele had nothing to do with the FISA warrant *cough*, and Page is literally Hitler."

No wonder why they dropped it on a Saturday

So after 5 years of FBI investigations and multiple FISA warrants......Carter Page is still walking around a free man. So either he's a super spy who is able to completely hide status as a Russian agent, the FBI is incompetent, or he is NOT a foreign spy or working for a foreign government.


Really takes a chit on Russian collusion.

Seatard
02-24-2018, 02:01 PM
LOL at these tards trying to one-up each other with these phaggy tweets and memos.

Seriously, congress and the president have been reduced to little more than women bickering on facebook over who's fatter.

OPGenesis
02-24-2018, 02:03 PM
Just read through most of it, and it's a bunch of cope about how the investigation would have proceeded without the "dossier', and how they had other sources which made the investigation warranted.

There is really nothing in there that hasn't been touched on, basically, just a rebuttal that asserts the opposite to the Nunes memo.

HoganIsGOAT
02-24-2018, 02:04 PM
I’m worried about gowdy leaving. Who else has balls like him

Name one actionable thing he has done regarding any of this besides talk?

OPGenesis
02-24-2018, 02:09 PM
Name one actionable thing he has done regarding any of this besides talk?

Absolutely nothing lmao.

Dude is a joke when you subtract the antics.

Ten_Hearts
02-24-2018, 02:33 PM
I will read it but I'm gonna assume probably a lot of nothing like the Nunes memo was a load of nothing.

BruceJender
02-24-2018, 02:35 PM
ON A SATURDAY at 5'OCLOCK


HAHAHAAHHAHAHHAHA

drLihp
02-24-2018, 02:42 PM
keep coping trumpers

Cliff Notes:

Steele Dossier played NO role in opening the Carter Page investigation. They began their investigation prior to even receiving it.

The DOJ did in fact inform the court of the origin of the Steele Dossier.

They accuse Nunes of deliberately misrepresenting the underlying FISA Warrant intelligence.

Four different judge's approved FISA warrants including judge's appointed by Bush and Reagan. Multiple DOJ officials also approved the applications prior to the court even seeing them including Trump appointees Rosenstein and Boente.

They actually started listening to Page after he left Trump campaign so the idea they were watching him to spy on Trump is absurd.

Page has a long history with Russia going back to 2004 and was being actively investigated once before already in 2013. The FBI had even interviewed him in 2016 again prior to receiving the Steele Dossier. The Steele dossier was referenced in the application as corroboration of certain things, and not to independently demonstrate.

A bunch of blacked out additional evidence with a bit in the middle noting Page lied to the HIC in his testimony in 2017 about meeting with Russian officials.

It included the footnote that discusses the Steele dossier source which SPECIFICALLY STATES ..."The FBI speculates the the unidentified U.S. Person was likely looking for information that could be used to discredit Candidate #1's campaign." Candidate 1 is Trump I believe, edit I previously thought Person 1 was Steele, this is the person coordinating with Steele. Steele is Source #1.

DOJ timely informed the court when the FBI fired Steele and why.

The attacks on Bruce Ohr for knowing Steele/and his wife working for Fusion GPS are 100% baseless. He was not involved in the FISA process and disclosed his relationships in November 2016.

Basically Nunes and Gowdy lied whole cloth that the FISA warrant was primarily based on a news article and the Steele Dossier. Those were in fact the least used and most minor pieces of evidence and they picked them out specifically for that reason to discredit the investigation and lied about their use.

Kane_89
02-24-2018, 02:45 PM
None of this even matters lol.

House/Senate investigations and memos are just politics.

Nothing stops the Mueller investigation.

seven11
02-24-2018, 03:13 PM
None of this even matters lol.

House/Senate investigations and memos are just politics.

Nothing stops the Mueller investigation.

This. Seeing how Mueller is just making minced meat out of these criminals, I'm no longer worried that justice will be served. This memo is a little bit of icing on top.

Trapstar4.4
02-24-2018, 03:19 PM
I don't care about either memo. Team documents of peace

rampagefc77
02-24-2018, 04:56 PM
So after 5 years of FBI investigations and multiple FISA warrants......Carter Page is still walking around a free man. So either he's a super spy who is able to completely hide status as a Russian agent, the FBI is incompetent, or he is NOT a foreign spy or working for a foreign government.


Really takes a chit on Russian collusion.

This. Also, wasn’t he on the fbi payroll in 2016? I’ve heard that he worked undercover for the fbi using his Russia relations.

To get 4 consecutive FISAs means you need new evidence each time that the dude is acting as a spy. If that were true, he’d be behind bars long ago. He was a pawn used to spy on trump, nothing more. Anyone with critical thinking skills can see it. Of course, they used someone with at least a little bit of plausible deniability just in case this scenario unfolded.

rampagefc77
02-24-2018, 05:03 PM
Well, we know that multiple FBI agents have been demoted or shown the door regarding corruption and their antics surrounding this investigation. McCabe, Strzok, etc.

If everything was fine by the book as the dem memo would imply, these guys would still have jobs.

Not to mention comey perjuring himself regarding the timeline of his leaks, of lying about a meeting with obama that mentioned the investigation. Or other intelligence officials perjuring themselves saying the dossier wasn’t used for the fisa courts.

Lots of heads rolling for a textbook investigation, right?

MericaThatsWhy
02-24-2018, 05:45 PM
inb4 Beowulfs 10 page dissertation on why this memo is correct and Nunes memo isnt.

They both are correct

One is for the left and the other is for the right

- pick one or a lil or all of both to place your beliefs in


- But as I said a while ago, all these memos will do is divide us even more. There's to much, important, info that's classify, which we will never see, to get the full picture

- This is what our intelligence community was talking about. You can not release just parts of something that's as srs as this.

Forty0zFreedom
02-24-2018, 05:48 PM
The whole point of the Schiff memo was to give the media something to combat the real memo with, back when it was released. They got the headlines out and talking points out to discredit the real memo. The Schiff memo did its job weeks ago, hence the quiet Saturday release.

Their games are so fukcing obvious to me at this point, it drives me bonkers that so many still can't see through it all.



- But as I said a while ago, all these memos will do is divide us even more.

Sorry buddy but not being divided in 2018 means agree with the Left or else. Everyone who calls for "unity" seems to really mean "agree with Democrats".

MericaThatsWhy
02-24-2018, 06:01 PM
The whole point of the Schiff memo was to give the media something to combat the real memo with, back when it was released. They got the headlines out and talking points out to discredit the real memo. The Schiff memo did its job weeks ago, hence the quiet Saturday release.

Their games are so fukcing obvious to me at this point, it drives me bonkers that so many still can't see through it all.



Sorry buddy but not being divided in 2018 means agree with the Left or else. Everyone who calls for "unity" seems to really mean "agree with Democrats".

Wrong and it's reactions like this that's the issue and gives the rest of us a bad name

What drives me bonkers is reading posts like your's, coming from someone who's 30+ years old, that fails to gather the facts before giving his opinion. Stop watching Fox News


- There is no 'real' memo. There's the Nunes (right) memo and the Schiff (left) memo

- Nunes himself said they wanted the Schiff memo to be released weeks ago but the Dems refused to retract anything like a bunch of idiots, delaying it even more then what it was going to be


Sorry buddy that's exactly NOT what it means. Only the crazy right wing alex jones watching nuts have this view.

Jrd86
02-24-2018, 06:48 PM
So after 5 years of FBI investigations and multiple FISA warrants......Carter Page is still walking around a free man. So either he's a super spy who is able to completely hide status as a Russian agent, the FBI is incompetent, or he is NOT a foreign spy or working for a foreign government.


Really takes a chit on Russian collusion.

True. Carter page is still a free man...the one man that started this whole thing and yet there is no "there". Also, Carter page is ex-FBI. I'm starting to think we don't need the FBI anymore. We have ICE, homeland security, the CIA, SWAT ect...what do we need an FBI for? They're literally irrelevant. May be time to get rid of it.

gwg77
02-24-2018, 06:52 PM
Wrong and it's reactions like this that's the issue and gives the rest of us a bad name

What drives me bonkers is reading posts like your's, coming from someone who's 30+ years old, that fails to gather the facts before giving his opinion. Stop watching Fox News


- There is no 'real' memo. There's the Nunes (right) memo and the Schiff (left) memo

- Nunes himself said they wanted the Schiff memo to be released weeks ago but the Dems refused to retract anything like a bunch of idiots, delaying it even more then what it was going to be


Sorry buddy that's exactly NOT what it means. Only the crazy right wing alex jones watching nuts have this view.

here we go again with this clown.

"I am a 20 year old jerkoff who has the whole world figured out, so please stop making the rest of us look bad. Really, i am on your side, and you are making us all look bad. I know better, too. And my opinion is better too. So please do as I say and watch CNN, to better understand my liberal point of view. But serious guys, I really am a conservative just like you."

MericaThatsWhy
02-24-2018, 07:17 PM
here we go again with this clown.

"I am a 20 year old jerkoff who has the whole world figured out, so please stop making the rest of us look bad. Really, i am on your side, and you are making us all look bad. I know better, too. And my opinion is better too. So please do as I say and watch CNN, to better understand my liberal point of view. But serious guys, I really am a conservative just like you."


Are you stalking me like the other fawking 30+ year old guy. Do you brahs have some kind of google alert on me or something, fawking losers. This is what happens when you don't get any ass.




sorry, (not sorry) that I actually look into the FACTS and not follow blindly like some idiot. Umad at my knowledge and common sense level for my age, brah? Pathetic, you're worse then the far left with their "not my president" and 'impeachment' agenda.


Stop fawking stalking me you fawking loser....It's sat night GO GET LAID!

PAU1
02-24-2018, 07:22 PM
Wrong and it's reactions like this that's the issue and gives the rest of us a bad name

What drives me bonkers is reading posts like your's, coming from someone who's 30+ years old, that fails to gather the facts before giving his opinion. Stop watching Fox News


- There is no 'real' memo. There's the Nunes (right) memo and the Schiff (left) memo

- Nunes himself said they wanted the Schiff memo to be released weeks ago but the Dems refused to retract anything like a bunch of idiots, delaying it even more then what it was going to be


Sorry buddy that's exactly NOT what it means. Only the crazy right wing alex jones watching nuts have this view.
Everyone knows you're a troll.

N0rds
02-24-2018, 07:25 PM
https://i.imgur.com/183ozJ2.jpg

gwg77
02-24-2018, 07:28 PM
Are you stalking me like the other fawking 30+ year old guy. Do you brahs have some kind of google alert on me or something, fawking losers. This is what happens when you don't get any ass.




sorry, (not sorry) that I actually look into the FACTS and not follow blindly like some idiot. Umad at my knowledge and common sense level for my age, brah? Pathetic, you're worse then the far left with their "not my president" and 'impeachment' agenda.


Stop fawking stalking me you fawking loser....It's sat night GO GET LAID!


Just trolling the trolls.

MericaThatsWhy
02-24-2018, 07:31 PM
Everyone knows you're a troll.

The go to response when you have no counter-argument. Must suck to suck


Are you age 30+ to? you old creeps in here are on whole nother level of butt hurt.

- Get on Tinder, say you're rich, pop a pill, Sloot will give you a sample fawk, then you go NC before she wants to meet again and get you to pay her bills .

Ephedra
02-24-2018, 07:31 PM
Sorry buddy but not being divided in 2018 means agree with the Left or else. Everyone who calls for "unity" seems to really mean "agree with Democrats".

No truther truth has ever been truthed.

dweeegs
02-24-2018, 08:08 PM
Here's dweeegs' personal cliffs, finally get to read it


Investigation didn't start with Steele (Nunes memo confirmed that) but with Papadopoulos, he didn't report to them until 2 months later
Page wasn't with the campaign when the new rounds of FISA started. E.g. warrants weren't being used to spy on Trump capaign
FBI did disclose that Steele was a terminated source and was hired with a political motivation
Nunes hadn't read any of the classified documents behind the memo
There were already queries into other members besides Carter. Number and names are blanked out. Looks like maybe 4-5 could fit in that space?
FISA wasn't used to spy on campaign
More stuff about Page's past we already know
The FBI had independent material that corroborated what Steele said about Page regarding talking to Sechin about lifting sanctions and the kompromat??
It contradicts what Page said in his testimony?? On multiple levels??
Who did Page repeatedly contact???
DOJ only unmasked if the person themselves was in a counterintelligence investigation...
They did provide context for who Steele was etc.
FBI never paid Steele for dossier
Yahoo article wasn't used to grant the warrant but was used to show a statement from Page. Wasn't only evidence for warrant
Ohr wasn't involved at all, worked in a different division? Disclosed him/his wife's conflicts of interest anyways

There are two interesting things here:

1) The part that says FBI independently verified Steele's claims the dossier and Page
2) Pretty sure Nunes was unmasked lol, he kinda confirmed he got caught up in a FISA thing himself. I remember reading he was involved in some meetings with some Turkish government officials that involved that Gullen guy or something.

Number 1 is very serious, even more so that they're saying Page lied in his testimony

dweeegs
02-24-2018, 08:17 PM
And just to add to what I said above about the dossier. If you remember Nunes' memo, he was very careful to phrase it such the "claims were unproven at the time" and not just "unproven". Schiff's memo is now just straight up saying it was verified.

One of the things I used to say it was unverified was Page's testimony that he didn't meet with Sechin. But this one is blanked out when talking about it and says it contradicts what he said in his testimony

So I am very confused on Page

MericaThatsWhy
02-24-2018, 08:26 PM
And just to add to what I said above about the dossier. If you remember Nunes' memo, he was very careful to phrase it such the "claims were unproven at the time" and not just "unproven". Schiff's memo is now just straight up saying it was verified.

One of the things I used to say it was unverified was Page's testimony that he didn't meet with Sechin. But this one is blanked out when talking about it and says it contradicts what he said in his testimony

So I am very confused on Page

Like I've said before, we will never get the full picture to come to a proper and fact based opinion on this until all the classified documents are released (which prob won't ever happen)

So now you can

- Go with the Nunes Memo

- Go with the Schiff Memo

- Go with both

- Or Go fawk yourself for wasting your own damn time on a fawking memo that nothing will come from it expect dividing people more


https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/58154583/the-choice-is-yours-choose-wisely.jpg

dweeegs
02-24-2018, 08:28 PM
Like I've said before, we will never get the full picture to come to a proper and fact based opinion on this until all the classified documents are released (which prob won't ever happen)

So now you can

- Go with the Nunes Memo

- Go with the Schiff Memo

- Go with both

- Or Go fawk yourself for wasting your own damn time on a fawking memo that nothing will come from it expect dividing people more

I'm going with both, since both provided some more confirmation of things that had only been reported on. It's pretty easy to pick away partisan language

dweeegs
02-24-2018, 08:29 PM
Here's the rebuttal:

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/democrat_memo_charge_and_response.pdf

Stizzel
02-24-2018, 08:33 PM
Here's dweeegs' personal cliffs, finally get to read it



There are two interesting things here:

1) The part that says FBI independently verified Steele's claims the dossier and Page
2) Pretty sure Nunes was unmasked lol, he kinda confirmed he got caught up in a FISA thing himself. I remember reading he was involved in some meetings with some Turkish government officials that involved that Gullen guy or something.

Number 1 is very serious, even more so that they're saying Page lied in his testimony

Well, the way the media has been approaching this is that since parts of the dossier were verified, the entire thing is verified. It would not surprise me if our politicians are playing that same game.

gwg77
02-24-2018, 08:38 PM
Well, the way the media has been approaching this is that since parts of the dossier were verified, the entire thing is verified. It would not surprise me if our politicians are playing that same game.

so as of today, have they identified any part of it that has been verified? if it pertains to todays memo, i didnt read all of it, so i'm not up to speed.

As of today, parts of it are now verified?

dweeegs
02-24-2018, 08:41 PM
Well, the way the media has been approaching this is that since parts of the dossier were verified, the entire thing is verified. It would not surprise me if our politicians are playing that same game.

I just need more info in general. These two things cannot be true together:


RESPONSE:
At the time of the initial application, all of the Steele dossier’s specific claims about Page including that he met with Igor Sechin and Igor Diveykin in Moscow in July 2016 were uncorroborated by any independent source, and they remain unconfirmed.


In subsequent FISA renewals, DOJ provided additional information obtained through multiple independent sources that corroborated Steele's reporting

Page's [blank] in Moscow with [blank] senior Russian officials [blank] as well as meetings with Russian officals [blank]

This information contradicts Page's November 2, 2017 testimony to the Committee, in which he initially denied any such meetings and then was forced to admit speaking with Dvorkovich and meeting with Rosneft's Sechin-tied investor relations chief, Andrey Baranov

For the first, there's already been a claim that's been proven as true, so that can't be right - but for the second, why has Page not been indicted on anything? It's all odd

Stizzel
02-24-2018, 08:45 PM
so as of today, have they identified any part of it that has been verified? if it pertains to todays memo, i didnt read all of it, so i'm not up to speed.

As of today, parts of it are now verified?

There is some mostly irrelevant information in it that has been verified. I don't remember exactly what at the top of my head, but nothing that actually matters has been substantiated, at least not publicly.

With the media it has been like saying since we verified space is real everything in the star wars movies must also be real.

gwg77
02-24-2018, 08:52 PM
There is some mostly irrelevant information in it that has been verified. I don't remember exactly what at the top of my head, but mothing that actually matters has been substantiated, at least not publicly.

With the media it has been like saying since we verified space is real everything in the star wars movies must also be real.

thank you

HELIX35
02-24-2018, 09:22 PM
And every single GOP talking point is completely destroyed

Notice I didn't say conservative. The GOP has lost control and is nothing more than a corrupt slave to corporate lobbying. Every true conservative is disgusted with them at this point.

SwollNMember
02-24-2018, 10:56 PM
That's it? Wow, what a nothingburger. SAD!

rocketfish
02-24-2018, 11:52 PM
carter page is a spy from the FBI

rampagefc77
02-25-2018, 03:38 AM
carter page is a spy from the FBI

I have read sources claiming this, saying he was on the fbi payroll as late as 2016 due to his Russian contacts.

If the guy was wrapped up in so much stuff that there was enough evidence to support 4 fisa warrants in a row... how is he still walking free? He would be one of the most documented spies in our history at this point. He should have been the first to go down in the whole investigation.

The point by point rebuttal that has been released explains a fair amount. Again, the fact that fbi members have been canned leads me to believe the GOP memo saying that shady **** was going on. We will never know everything, but the rest of what is going on seems to support that memo more.

Seatard
02-25-2018, 07:22 AM
If the guy was wrapped up in so much stuff that there was enough evidence to support 4 fisa warrants in a row... how is he still walking free? He would be one of the most documented spies in our history at this point. He should have been the first to go down in the whole investigation.

There have been 30,000 FISA warrants. Whatever you think you've figured out based on 4 of them is probably wrong.

|ceman
02-25-2018, 08:07 AM
interesting that the FBI has indeed confirmed parts of the steele dossier, right boyos?

https://i.imgur.com/YBDyUgD.png


whoops. there go the claims of this "debunked" dossier, right?

rampagefc77
02-25-2018, 08:59 AM
interesting that the FBI has indeed confirmed parts of the steele dossier, right boyos?

https://i.imgur.com/YBDyUgD.png


whoops. there go the claims of this "debunked" dossier, right? didn’t McCabe say the only thing the fbi could verify in the dossier was parts of the page stuff?

Even comey in his testimony called it unverified.

Steele has multiple lawsuits over it and he has gone back on the validity.

Fusion gps says they didn’t verify any of it.

So there you have it. Nobody is willing to put there name on a comment that says it’s been verified.

PlanoLifter
02-25-2018, 09:38 AM
The whole point of the Schiff memo was to give the media something to combat the real memo with, back when it was released. They got the headlines out and talking points out to discredit the real memo. The Schiff memo did its job weeks ago, hence the quiet Saturday release.

Their games are so fukcing obvious to me at this point, it drives me bonkers that so many still can't see through it all.



Sorry buddy but not being divided in 2018 means agree with the Left or else. Everyone who calls for "unity" seems to really mean "agree with Democrats".


Just wondering, what, objectively and putting aside political bias, make the Nunes memo the real memo?

XterraRob
02-25-2018, 09:40 AM
inb4 Beowulfs 10 page dissertation on why this memo is correct and Nunes memo isnt.

Dead lol.

rampagefc77
02-25-2018, 09:50 AM
Just wondering, what, objectively and putting aside political bias, make the Nunes memo the real memo?

All circumstantial things surrounding it. Page was paid by the fbi, he was so dangerous that he required 4 consecutive warrants, each needing new evidence... yet he is still walking free? McCabe, Strzok, Lisa page all under fire at the fbi, the text messages, etc. coney lying under oath about meetings with obama, obama lying saying he never met with coney to discuss fbi investigations, then the lynch email that proves that false. People lying about unmasking, people lying saying the dossier wasn’t used for the warrants, etc.

Put it all together and it’s pretty clear. That’s just the tip of the iceberg really.

rampagefc77
02-25-2018, 09:51 AM
Dead lol.
He’s awaiting his talking points.

beowulf10
02-25-2018, 11:43 AM
He’s awaiting his talking points.

DrLihp and Dweeegs already posted good summaries of Schiff's memo.

The general argument being pushed by Trump supporters with the Nunes memo is that the FISA warrant was obtained improperly and therefore the entire Russian investigation amounts to nothing more than a political witch hunt.

The general rebuttal of the Schiff memo on Fox News during the past 24 hours is that the Schiff memo does nothing to attack the Nunes memo argument that without the Steele dossier the October 2016 FISA warrant would not have been requested by the FBI nor granted by the courts.

DrLihp and Dweegs already wrote about the various details of the Schiff memo rebutting that disingenuous argument, so I will write only about the big takeaway I got from from the Schiff memo, which was that the October 2016 FISA warrant itself was clearly part of a much broader counter-intelligence investigation. Let's look at this key passage in the Schiff memo:

“In fact, Steele’s reporting did not reach the counterintelligence team investigating Russia the the FBI headquarters until mid-September 2016, more than seven weeks after the FBI opened its investigation, because the probe’s existence was so closely held within the FBI. By then, the FBI had already opened it’s sub-inquiries into [redacted] individuals linked to the Trump campaign: [redacted] and former campaign foreign policy advisor Carter Page. As committee testimony bears out, the FBI would have continued it’s investigation, including against [redacted] individuals, even if it had never received information from Steele, never applied for a FISA warrant against Page, or if the FISC had rejected the application.”

You then go read the footnote associated with this section. Apparently, they forgot to redact the footnote and the footnote references Flynn, Papadapolous, Rick Gates, and Manafort.

So even before Steele’s mid-September 2016 report reached the FBI counter-intelligence team associated with the broader investigation into Russia, at least 5 (if we also include Page) current and former members of Trump’s campaign were already being investigated.

That’s a really big deal, and you’d think Trump, who went on Judge Jeanine’s show last night to give a 20+ minute monologue, would have had something to say about 5 members of his campaign being investigated before the FBI counter-intelligence team got its hands on the Steele dossier. Instead he insulted Schiff, and did not bother to discuss any of the details of the memo, which is basically what Trump supporters are doing in this thread too.

Stizzel
02-25-2018, 12:03 PM
didn’t McCabe say the only thing the fbi could verify in the dossier was parts of the page stuff?

Even comey in his testimony called it unverified.

Steele has multiple lawsuits over it and he has gone back on the validity.

Fusion gps says they didn’t verify any of it.

So there you have it. Nobody is willing to put there name on a comment that says it’s been verified.

Please keep the source of this memo in mind. Schiff doesnt have a very good track record of honesty.

rampagefc77
02-25-2018, 02:41 PM
DrLihp and Dweeegs already posted good summaries of Schiff's memo.

The general argument being pushed by Trump supporters with the Nunes memo is that the FISA warrant was obtained improperly and therefore the entire Russian investigation amounts to nothing more than a political witch hunt.

The general rebuttal of the Schiff memo on Fox News during the past 24 hours is that the Schiff memo does nothing to attack the Nunes memo argument that without the Steele dossier the October 2016 FISA warrant would not have been requested by the FBI nor granted by the courts.

DrLihp and Dweegs already wrote about the various details of the Schiff memo rebutting that disingenuous argument, so I will write only about the big takeaway I got from from the Schiff memo, which was that the October 2016 FISA warrant itself was clearly part of a much broader counter-intelligence investigation. Let's look at this key passage in the Schiff memo:

“In fact, Steele’s reporting did not reach the counterintelligence team investigating Russia the the FBI headquarters until mid-September 2016, more than seven weeks after the FBI opened its investigation, because the probe’s existence was so closely held within the FBI. By then, the FBI had already opened it’s sub-inquiries into [redacted] individuals linked to the Trump campaign: [redacted] and former campaign foreign policy advisor Carter Page. As committee testimony bears out, the FBI would have continued it’s investigation, including against [redacted] individuals, even if it had never received information from Steele, never applied for a FISA warrant against Page, or if the FISC had rejected the application.”

You then go read the footnote associated with this section. Apparently, they forgot to redact the footnote and the footnote references Flynn, Papadapolous, Rick Gates, and Manafort.

So even before Steele’s mid-September 2016 report reached the FBI counter-intelligence team associated with the broader investigation into Russia, at least 5 (if we also include Page) current and former members of Trump’s campaign were already being investigated.

That’s a really big deal, and you’d think Trump, who went on Judge Jeanine’s show last night to give a 20+ minute monologue, would have had something to say about 5 members of his campaign being investigated before the FBI counter-intelligence team got its hands on the Steele dossier. Instead he insulted Schiff, and did not bother to discuss any of the details of the memo, which is basically what Trump supporters are doing in this thread too.

A rebuttal to the dem memo was already written. Really no need to rewrite it. Those in the fbi have said without the dossier, no warrant. We know the obama admin weaponized the irs, it could have been targeting trump admin as well looking for a way in to spy.

If page is a foreign spy worthy of 4 fisa warrants, he should be behind bars. He should not have been on the fbis payroll.

Again, we have proof of comey and obama lying about meetings and obsess involvement in the investigation. We have people lying about unmasking. We have agents leading the investigation being anti trump. Those same agents were actively trying to hide classified Clinton emails and were instructed to use burner phones when discussing Clinton. The bias and corruption was obvious. We have several top level fbi members given the boot.

The allegations go way beyond that, which may or may not come to light. But if everything was rosy as Schiff says, we wouldn’t be seeing the fallout that we are. Schiff will likely see his time on the stand for his illegal leaks of info to the media.

beowulf10
02-25-2018, 03:01 PM
A rebuttal to the dem memo was already written. Really no need to rewrite it. Those in the fbi have said without the dossier, no warrant. We know the obama admin weaponized the irs, it could have been targeting trump admin as well looking for a way in to spy.

You're ignoring the larger picture which is a) the wealth of information on Page prior to the FBI's counter-intelligence team obtaining the dossier, and b) the fact that the October 2016 FISA warrant was part of a border counterintelligence investigation targeting the Russians that began before FBI's counterintelligence team investigating the matter got its hands on the Steele dossier.

It could have been true that the Obama administration was looking for a way to spy on Trump. If you accept the facts Schiff's memo reveals, your theory isn't very likely though. And as the scope of the FBI's investigation in 2016 is revealed to the public it becomes increasingly less logical to assume that an ever-expanding field of participants in the investigation were somehow involved in some DNC/Deep-State conspiracy. As an example, how can you explain away the fact that 3 of the 4 FISA judges throughout the various FISA applications concerning Page were Republican appointees? Are they part of some DNC/Deep-State conspiracy too? What about the people participating in the FBI's counterintelligence investigation? Are they part of some conspiracy too? If the FBI was secretly rooting for Clinton why did it publicly disclose it had reopened an investigation into Clinton, but sit on all this explosive information about Trump and keep the stuff about Trump secret from everyone? If the public had known that 5 Trump campaign associates were somehow inquiries of a counterintelligence investigation do you think people would have been more or less likely to vote for Trump?

At some point we have to stop blaming the whole world for Trump's problems and hold Trump accountable for hiring terrible people to work for his campaign.


If page is a foreign spy worthy of 4 fisa warrants, he should be behind bars. He should not have been on the fbis payroll.

It's not necessarily the case that someone being wiretapped or investigated is doing something worthy of a criminal charge and conviction, or that to get one or more warrants in the first place there is already enough evidence by that point to charge and convict. If that were the case, why have any warrants or any investigation at all for anything?



Again, we have proof of comey and obama lying about meetings and obsess involvement in the investigation. We have people lying about unmasking. We have agents leading the investigation being anti trump. Those same agents were actively trying to hide classified Clinton emails and were instructed to use burner phones when discussing Clinton. The bias and corruption was obvious. We have several top level fbi members given the boot.

If you think Trump can do no wrong and if anything critical about Trump comes out it is only because the world is out to get Trump, and it couldn't possibly be because Trump did something wrong, what can I say?



The allegations go way beyond that, which may or may not come to light. But if everything was rosy as Schiff says, we wouldn’t be seeing the fallout that we are. Schiff will likely see his time on the stand for his illegal leaks of info to the media.

I don't think this is going to turn out the way you think it is.

rampagefc77
02-25-2018, 05:12 PM
You're ignoring the larger picture which is a) the wealth of information on Page prior to the FBI's counter-intelligence team obtaining the dossier, and b) the fact that the October 2016 FISA warrant was part of a border counterintelligence investigation targeting the Russians that began before FBI's counterintelligence team investigating the matter got its hands on the Steele dossier.

It could have been true that the Obama administration was looking for a way to spy on Trump. If you accept the facts Schiff's memo reveals, your theory isn't very likely though. And as the scope of the FBI's investigation in 2016 is revealed to the public it becomes increasingly less logical to assume that an ever-expanding field of participants in the investigation were somehow involved in some DNC/Deep-State conspiracy. As an example, how can you explain away the fact that 3 of the 4 FISA judges throughout the various FISA applications concerning Page were Republican appointees? Are they part of some DNC/Deep-State conspiracy too? What about the people participating in the FBI's counterintelligence investigation? Are they part of some conspiracy too? If the FBI was secretly rooting for Clinton why did it publicly disclose it had reopened an investigation into Clinton, but sit on all this explosive information about Trump and keep the stuff about Trump secret from everyone? If the public had known that 5 Trump campaign associates were somehow inquiries of a counterintelligence investigation do you think people would have been more or less likely to vote for Trump?

At some point we have to stop blaming the whole world for Trump's problems and hold Trump accountable for hiring terrible people to work for his campaign.



It's not necessarily the case that someone being wiretapped or investigated is doing something worthy of a criminal charge and conviction, or that to get one or more warrants in the first place there is already enough evidence by that point to charge and convict. If that were the case, why have any warrants or any investigation at all for anything?



If you think Trump can do no wrong and if anything critical about Trump comes out it is only because the world is out to get Trump, and it couldn't possibly be because Trump did something wrong, what can I say?



I don't think this is going to turn out the way you think it is.

The answer to most of your questions are out there. I know you aren’t too lazy to find them, so it means you are choosing to overlook them.

Travis99
02-25-2018, 05:24 PM
LOL at these tards trying to one-up each other with these phaggy tweets and memos.

Seriously, congress and the president have been reduced to little more than women bickering on facebook over who's fatter.

This.

It’s quite embarrassing for a country. Our leaders are chit.

|ceman
02-26-2018, 07:32 AM
didn’t McCabe say the only thing the fbi could verify in the dossier was parts of the page stuff?

Even comey in his testimony called it unverified.

Steele has multiple lawsuits over it and he has gone back on the validity.

Fusion gps says they didn’t verify any of it.

So there you have it. Nobody is willing to put there name on a comment that says it’s been verified.

the dossier as a whole has not been verified, but based on this report on classified information, parts of it have been verified.

and verified as a result of the FISA court granting surveillance warrants.



in short - the Nunes memo has been blown apart as partisan hackery.

Procta
02-26-2018, 07:37 AM
no wonder they released it over a weekend when no one is paying attention

wesleysh21
02-26-2018, 08:14 AM
no wonder they released it over a weekend when no one is paying attention

I love the timing. Release a memo defending the FBI right after a mass shooting where the FBI chit the bed.

snarfbot
02-26-2018, 08:29 AM
they say that the investigation would have went on even without the steele dossier but how do we know this isnt just an example of parallel construction?

considering that the fbi forwards local law enforcement illegally obtained evidence on even the pettiest of drug crimes, is it so unfathomable that they would utilize this sort of technique in a high profile case like this?

lol just lol at their excuses.

beowulf10
02-26-2018, 09:10 AM
they say that the investigation would have went on even without the steele dossier but how do we know this isnt just an example of parallel construction?

considering that the fbi forwards local law enforcement illegally obtained evidence on even the pettiest of drug crimes, is it so unfathomable that they would utilize this sort of technique in a high profile case like this?

lol just lol at their excuses.

According to the Schiff memo the FBI was investigating 5 Trump campaign officials BEFORE the counter-intelligence team at the FBI got its hands on the Steele dossier and BEFORE the FISA warrant for Page was granted.

What you're saying makes no logical sense unless you think the U.S. Intelligence Community has somehow now acquired the ability to travel in time?

|ceman
02-26-2018, 09:14 AM
I love the timing. Release a memo defending the FBI right after a mass shooting where the FBI chit the bed.funny thing is that even if the FBI followed up, there is nothing that the current laws in florida could have done to prevent this guy from having access to a gun. even if they arrested him or detained him, once he was released, he could have gone on the shooting rampage (maybe just a few months later).

everyone loves to point fingers at the FBI but they are neutered in florida in this scenario as they could not have legally taken the guy's guns away. the laws don't allow it.

arn710
02-26-2018, 10:01 AM
here we go again with this clown.

"I am a 20 year old jerkoff who has the whole world figured out, so please stop making the rest of us look bad. Really, i am on your side, and you are making us all look bad. I know better, too. And my opinion is better too. So please do as I say and watch CNN, to better understand my liberal point of view. But serious guys, I really am a conservative just like you."

Absolutely perfect summation of every post that idiot makes. The only thing you neglected to include is that you're not allowed to respond to him unless you're under whatever magical age he prescribes even though most of this section falls outside his zone


interesting that the FBI has indeed confirmed parts of the steele dossier, right boyos?

whoops. there go the claims of this "debunked" dossier, right?

When did anyone here claim that the Steele dossier was 100% false?

|ceman
02-26-2018, 10:11 AM
When did anyone here claim that the Steele dossier was 100% false?

lol, really? were you born last night? this forum has been foaming at the mouth that the steele dossier was debunked and full of falsehoods.

Kane_89
02-26-2018, 10:13 AM
When did anyone here claim that the Steele dossier was 100% false?Literally, every single Trump supporter has called the dossier fake.

Literally.every.single.one.

Cleveland33
02-26-2018, 10:14 AM
lol, really? were you born last night? this forum has been foaming at the mouth that the steele dossier was debunked and full of falsehoods.

full of falsehoods does not equal 100% false.

There is a whole lot of grey in there - part of the dossier speaks of Trump's trip to Russia. They know he went to Russia - is that a portion that is considered verified? We don't know.

arn710
02-26-2018, 10:28 AM
lol, really? were you born last night? this forum has been foaming at the mouth that the steele dossier was debunked and full of falsehoods.

It was full of falsehoods. Some of it was debunked

So back to my original question and let's pretend I was born last night, when did anyone here claim that the Steele dossier was 100% false? Link me to posts please


Literally, every single Trump supporter has called the dossier fake.

Literally.every.single.one.

This doesn't answer my question. Read it carefully and respond to exactly what I asked.

Is.that.too.hard.for.you?

Stizzel
02-26-2018, 10:34 AM
Literally, every single Trump supporter has called the dossier fake.

Literally.every.single.one.

The dossier is fake even if its only 99% false

|ceman
02-26-2018, 10:36 AM
It was full of falsehoods. Some of it was debunked

So back to my original question and let's pretend I was born last night, when did anyone here claim that the Steele dossier was 100% false? Link me to posts please



search on this site is useless. the posts are there. if you're willing to paypal me some funds I'll search for you, otherwise you'll have to do it yourself.


The dossier is fake even if its only 99% false

what parts of the dossier have been proven false?

arn710
02-26-2018, 10:37 AM
what parts of the dossier have been proven false?

You haven't answered my question

Kane_89
02-26-2018, 10:45 AM
The dossier is fake even if its only 99% falseEven if it was 100% proven, you would still call it fake lol

Your opinion is meaningless.

|ceman
02-26-2018, 10:47 AM
You haven't answered my questionif you're willing to paypal me some funds I'll search for you, otherwise you'll have to do it yourself.

arn710
02-26-2018, 10:58 AM
if you're willing to paypal me some funds I'll search for you, otherwise you'll have to do it yourself.

Your post was garbage. I agree. Sad that you can't just take the L

Stizzel
02-26-2018, 11:00 AM
Even if it was 100% proven, you would still call it fake lol

Your opinion is meaningless.

That's not true, but then you and reality seem to be strangers.

rocketfish
02-26-2018, 11:29 AM
crazy how this backfired on adam

mCheech
02-26-2018, 11:33 AM
In the leftist mind, its guilty until proven innocent. Imagine whats going to happen when these lunatics get back in power.

|ceman
02-26-2018, 11:39 AM
Your post was garbage. I agree. Sad that you can't just take the L

keep being a chump, it looks good on you.

side note, why do most of you trumpers have bald heads? too much soy causing your hair to fall out?


Compelling evidence is a paid for debunked dossier that is looking more shady by the day as info about fusion gps dealings come to light?


Barrack helped fund a dirty dossier with false Russian information, the fake information was funneled to the FBI by leaking the dossier to the news by one of Clintons associates, then subsequently picked up by the FBI and used by them to get a FISA warrant to spy on a trumped associate (page) which launched the investigation of Trump.

The FBI weren't honest to the judge when presenting the dossier, the judge did not know that the dossier was compiled essentially by the democratic party.

Oh and we learned that the FBI did disclose to the judge that the dossier was from a competing candidate's op research.

-Obama/Clinton FBI & DOJ used a fake dossier as evidence about Trump to justify a FISA wiretap to spy on him during the election
-People involved were caught clearly pushing anti-Trump narrative through texts and conversation

gwg77
02-26-2018, 11:45 AM
the dossier as a whole has not been verified, but based on this report on classified information, parts of it have been verified.

and verified as a result of the FISA court granting surveillance warrants.



in short - the Nunes memo has been blown apart as partisan hackery.

I found out what part of the dossier is verified. And i really hate to burst your bubble here yet again.

The only part of the dossier that is verified is the part that states that Carter Page went to Moscow in 2016. And why is it verified? Because it was already public knowledge. So with that in mind, do you think that was part of the dossier that was the driving force in approving the FISA warrants?

Cleveland33
02-26-2018, 11:48 AM
I found out what part of the dossier is verified. And i really hate to burst your bubble here yet again.

The only part of the dossier that is verified is the part that states that Carter Page went to Moscow in 2016. And why is it verified? Because it was already public knowledge. So with that in mind, do you think that was part of the dossier that was the driving force in approving the FISA warrants?

where did you find that?

arn710
02-26-2018, 11:52 AM
keep being a chump, it looks good on you.

side note, why do most of you trumpers have bald heads? too much soy causing your hair to fall out?

Wow, that's a lame rebuttal even for you. You still haven't found a single person that say the dossier is 100% bunk. Keep trying though dopey

You're even worse with biology and endocrinology that you are with politics. Keep taking those Ls twink

gwg77
02-26-2018, 11:56 AM
where did you find that?

this video right here:

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/967776582491365376

|ceman
02-26-2018, 11:56 AM
Wow, that's a lame rebuttal even for you. You still haven't found a single person that say the dossier is 100% bunk. Keep trying though dopey

You're even worse with biology and endocrinology that you are with politics. Keep taking those Ls twink

sorry son, I can't fix stupid.

you're entitled to your own opinions but you're not entitled to your own facts. keep believing that flat earth stuff though, it fits you well.

arn710
02-26-2018, 12:22 PM
sorry son, I can't fix stupid.

you're entitled to your own opinions but you're not entitled to your own facts. keep believing that flat earth stuff though, it fits you well.

Just stop dude. You're embarrassing yourself

|ceman
02-26-2018, 12:38 PM
Just stop dude. You're embarrassing yourself

haha. you're a chump.

I posted 3 quick examples of trumpers on this forum calling the dossier debunked, fake and false without any qualifiers that part of the dossier was true.

maybe you can't read english to understand that you got flat out owned. classic case of trumpers not being very bright, not knowing how to comprehend written english and moving their own goalposts when their false narratives get blown up.

toodles.

Procta
02-26-2018, 01:15 PM
Republicans Refute ‘Point by Point’ Democratic Memo on Dossier
Nunes: the FBI used political dirt paid for by the Democratic Party to spy on an American

https://saraacarter.com/republicans-refute-point-point-democratic-memo-dossier/

Stizzel
02-26-2018, 01:36 PM
haha. you're a chump.

I posted 3 quick examples of trumpers on this forum calling the dossier debunked, fake and false without any qualifiers that part of the dossier was true.

maybe you can't read english to understand that you got flat out owned. classic case of trumpers not being very bright, not knowing how to comprehend written english and moving their own goalposts when their false narratives get blown up.

toodles.

Ppl who axe four sources r dum

-a smart libral

arn710
02-26-2018, 02:07 PM
haha. you're a chump.

I posted 3 quick examples of trumpers on this forum calling the dossier debunked, fake and false without any qualifiers that part of the dossier was true.

maybe you can't read english to understand that you got flat out owned. classic case of trumpers not being very bright, not knowing how to comprehend written english and moving their own goalposts when their false narratives get blown up.

toodles.

Except what they posted was accurate. Parts of the dossier were false, Russian propaganda and subsequently debunked

I asked for a source for someone that said that the dossier is 100% false. You've given me nothing.

Classic example of libtard liceman inventing his own narrative to try and pull a gotcha. Sad excuse for a "man" can't even admit when he's wrong

OMG bro you are so owned

rampagefc77
02-26-2018, 02:14 PM
keep being a chump, it looks good on you.

side note, why do most of you trumpers have bald heads? too much soy causing your hair to fall out?




Oh and we learned that the FBI did disclose to the judge that the dossier was from a competing candidate's op research.

Everyone under oath has said the only thing the fbi was able to corroborate was a page meeting in Russia. More than a year later, everyone apart of it said they couldn’t verify it... even the author himself Steele, fusion god, etc. nobody will put their name on the authenticity of the claims.

That is the document that was used for the fisa warrants, which people claimed no dossier = no fisa.

Was that thoroughly vetted? No.

Picture tables are turned. Trump is running against oprah. Someone Oprah is with talked to a Russian once. That is put in a document, along with pages of unverified claims. Trump spies on Oprah, lies about meetings with the fbi about spying on Oprah, the FBI agents are texting in burner phones to avoid getting caught, the fbi director perjured himself lying about meetings with trump about this spying, everyone in the trump admin says the Oprah memo wasn’t used for warrants... no wait it was oops!

... you would be ok with that and not have any questions? Imagine the media frenzy with that level of corruption tied to trump. We would never hear the end of it. Oh wait, it’s the opposite side? Nothing to see here move along.

|ceman
02-26-2018, 02:23 PM
Except what they posted was accurate. Parts of the dossier were false, Russian propaganda and subsequently debunked

I asked for a source for someone that said that the dossier is 100% false. You've given me nothing.

Classic example of libtard liceman inventing his own narrative to try and pull a gotcha. Sad excuse for a "man" can't even admit when he's wrong

OMG bro you are so owned
none of them said "parts" of the dossier were false but somehow you added that part in your reading of their posts.

funny how trumptards can't manage written english very well. it's a consistent thread with you guys. sad!

arn710
02-26-2018, 02:28 PM
none of them said "parts" of the dossier were false but somehow you added that part in your reading of their posts.

funny how trumptards can't manage written english very well. it's a consistent thread with you guys. sad!

Neither of them said "100%" either but somehow you added that part in your reading of their posts.

funny how libtards can't manage written english very well. it's a consistent thread with you guys. sad!

|ceman
02-26-2018, 03:39 PM
Neither of them said "100%" either but somehow you added that part in your reading of their posts.

funny how libtards can't manage written english very well. it's a consistent thread with you guys. sad!

so based on your own logic, since you didn't say 100% of all libtards, it can safely be assumed that you feel that only a few libtards can't manage written english very well.


and since imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, thanks for acknowledging my superior posting style and for copying my witty prose. :cool:

Skezo
02-26-2018, 03:44 PM
They sure like to talk about Carter Page.
It's crazy how many things he has been indicted for...... oh wait 2 years and still nothing.

WrestlingFan123
02-26-2018, 04:00 PM
Schiff memo confirms that the FISA courts were never told the DNC/HRC paid for the Steele Dossier.

|ceman
02-26-2018, 04:06 PM
Schiff memo confirms that the FISA courts were never told the DNC/HRC paid for the Steele Dossier.

yes. US Citizens are intentionally masked in FISA docs - Clinton and Trump were referred to as Candidate 1 and Candidate 2.

You guys were jumping up and down last year about US citizens not being properly masked in FISA docs, right? Are you now upset that they WERE properly masked? lol.

7rmr
02-26-2018, 04:14 PM
Neither of them said "100%" either but somehow you added that part in your reading of their posts.

funny how libtards can't manage written english very well. it's a consistent thread with you guys. sad!

Sorry, take the L. They said it was fake. If they wanted to qualify that comment then they had to say but parts are real. The claim its a fake dossier, or debunked dossier, clearly refers to the whole thing.

arn710
02-26-2018, 04:26 PM
Sorry, take the L. They said it was fake. If they wanted to qualify that comment then they had to say but parts are real. The claim its a fake dossier, or debunked dossier, clearly refers to the whole thing.

You’re a Canadian fake lawyer. No one asked for your opinion. Go piss up a rope

The only reason you chimed in is because it’s a liberal stance. I put a qualifier in there for a reason. I’m not going to parse words with you. Learn to read

|ceman
02-26-2018, 04:32 PM
Sorry, take the L. They said it was fake. If they wanted to qualify that comment then they had to say but parts are real. The claim its a fake dossier, or debunked dossier, clearly refers to the whole thing.

you're one of the libtards that manages written english very well.

I know this because arn710 said that only some libtards can't manage written english very well. his unqualified statement of fact was carries the implied qualification of some, not all.






lol. it's like discussing anything with some of these trumpkins requires the application of bizarro world logic and understanding. one wonders how they even get through life. bitter and scared is my guess.

WrestlingFan123
02-26-2018, 04:35 PM
yes. US Citizens are intentionally masked in FISA docs - Clinton and Trump were referred to as Candidate 1 and Candidate 2.

You guys were jumping up and down last year about US citizens not being properly masked in FISA docs, right? Are you now upset that they WERE properly masked? lol.

Never was it revealed to the FISA courts that a 'Candidate 1 or 2' payed for the dossier on the other candidate.

gwg77
02-26-2018, 04:36 PM
Sorry, take the L. They said it was fake. If they wanted to qualify that comment then they had to say but parts are real. The claim its a fake dossier, or debunked dossier, clearly refers to the whole thing.

The only thing in the dossier that is verified is that Carter Page went to Moscow. That's because it was already public knowledge. Everything in the dossier that concerns Trump colluding with Russia has never been verified.

7rmr
02-26-2018, 04:37 PM
You’re a Canadian fake lawyer. No one asked for your opinion. Go piss up a rope

The only reason you chimed in is because it’s a liberal stance. I put a qualifier in there for a reason. I’m not going to parse words with you. Learn to read

If you weren't so blinded by partisanship you'd see how dumb your comment was.

Apply that logic to literally anything else.

As a simple example, if I say I hate soccer, how should you interpret that.

1. I hate soccer.
2. I hate some soccer, but I actually love some soccer, and how dare you say I hate all soccer.

According to you, option 2 is what I must obviously mean.

|ceman
02-26-2018, 04:44 PM
Never was it revealed to the FISA courts that a 'Candidate 1 or 2' payed for the dossier on the other candidate.

You're right. I misspoke. The paying party was identified as a law firm.

"DOJ in fact informed the Court accurately that Steele was hired by politically-motivated U.S. persons and entities and that his research appeared intended for use "to discredit" Trump's campaign."

Here's the actual text:

https://i.imgur.com/crcpH5d.png

And clarifying notes here:
“(Steele) was approached by an identified U.S. Person (apparently Fusion GPS’ Glenn Simpson), who indicated to Source #1 (Steele) that a U.S.-based law firm (Perkins Coie, which hired Fusion on behalf of the DNC and the Clinton campaign) had hired the identified U.S. Person to conduct research regarding Candidate #1’s (Trump’s) ties to Russia. (The identified U.S. Person and Source #1 have a long-standing business relationship.) The identified U.S. person hired Source #1 to conduct this research. The identified U.S. Person never advised Source #1 as to the motivation behind the research into Candidate #1’s ties to Russia. The FBI speculates that the identified U.S. Person was likely looking for information that could be used to discredit Candidate #1’s campaign.”

rampagefc77
02-26-2018, 06:26 PM
yes. US Citizens are intentionally masked in FISA docs - Clinton and Trump were referred to as Candidate 1 and Candidate 2.

You guys were jumping up and down last year about US citizens not being properly masked in FISA docs, right? Are you now upset that they WERE properly masked? lol.

Nothing shady about rice saying she wasn’t involved in any unmasking... oh wait nvm I was but promise it was all legal!!!

rampagefc77
02-26-2018, 06:27 PM
Sorry, take the L. They said it was fake. If they wanted to qualify that comment then they had to say but parts are real. The claim its a fake dossier, or debunked dossier, clearly refers to the whole thing.

You saying it’s true means it’s all true. No parts are false otherwise you would qualify, right?

rampagefc77
02-26-2018, 06:29 PM
The only thing in the dossier that is verified is that Carter Page went to Moscow. That's because it was already public knowledge. Everything in the dossier that concerns Trump colluding with Russia has never been verified.

This. All the plausible deniability you need based on that.

dweeegs
02-26-2018, 07:28 PM
what parts of the dossier have been proven false?

Well Cohen says he's never been to Prague. Considering the lying that everyone does, and that he didn't say that under oath (like it would matter), up to you to decide that one. EDIT: just followed up on this one, he tweeted out his passport. This piece is probably valid to say it's proven false

Page meeting with Sechin was also false based on his testimony, but now Schiff is saying in this memo that he lied. So unclear at this point

The Ritz sexual stuff sounded kinda phony too, I remember some body guard saying saying Trump turned down the hookers and whatnot. Again... it's just a matter of what/who you believe

And the very last memo in the dossier called out a specific firm for the physical hacking I think? That firm is the one suing Buzzfeed, which is why Buzzfeed is suing the DNC at the moment to get the evidence they have.

So those need to be addressed for accuracy. I don't think any of them have the claim of being 'disproven', just a range of likely --> not likely that you have based on whose word you trust. I literally trust 0 of anything that comes out of the mouth of the Trump admin, so that's been shaping how I view everything. You sound like you're in the same boat as me.

Nunes says dossier unverified, Schiff says dossier verified by FBI independently. Simpson also said in his testimony that a source from Trump campaign independently verified some of the allegations as well. Do you think Simpson was lying about that? It all depends on you. I'm sitting in limbo here waiting for more testimony to come out cause that's all I can do at this point.

dyee4613
02-26-2018, 07:37 PM
lol, really? were you born last night? this forum has been foaming at the mouth that the steele dossier was debunked and full of falsehoods.

it did full of falsehoods....

arn710
02-27-2018, 03:15 AM
If you weren't so blinded by partisanship you'd see how dumb your comment was.

Apply that logic to literally anything else.

As a simple example, if I say I hate soccer, how should you interpret that.

1. I hate soccer.
2. I hate some soccer, but I actually love some soccer, and how dare you say I hate all soccer.

According to you, option 2 is what I must obviously mean.

This is easily the dumbest comparison I have ever seen and doesn't apply in the slightest. Good lord man. You had to try to fail this hard

Anyway, don't spend to much time on me. I'm sure you need to captain-save-a-lib someone else. The soy signal is out

rampagefc77
02-27-2018, 03:22 AM
Well Cohen says he's never been to Prague. Considering the lying that everyone does, and that he didn't say that under oath (like it would matter), up to you to decide that one. EDIT: just followed up on this one, he tweeted out his passport. This piece is probably valid to say it's proven false

Page meeting with Sechin was also false based on his testimony, but now Schiff is saying in this memo that he lied. So unclear at this point

The Ritz sexual stuff sounded kinda phony too, I remember some body guard saying saying Trump turned down the hookers and whatnot. Again... it's just a matter of what/who you believe

And the very last memo in the dossier called out a specific firm for the physical hacking I think? That firm is the one suing Buzzfeed, which is why Buzzfeed is suing the DNC at the moment to get the evidence they have.

So those need to be addressed for accuracy. I don't think any of them have the claim of being 'disproven', just a range of likely --> not likely that you have based on whose word you trust. I literally trust 0 of anything that comes out of the mouth of the Trump admin, so that's been shaping how I view everything. You sound like you're in the same boat as me.

Nunes says dossier unverified, Schiff says dossier verified by FBI independently. Simpson also said in his testimony that a source from Trump campaign independently verified some of the allegations as well. Do you think Simpson was lying about that? It all depends on you. I'm sitting in limbo here waiting for more testimony to come out cause that's all I can do at this point.

I believe Simpson has already walked back in that claim, there were reports almost immediately after his hearing. Simpson is full of ****.

Pretty sure McCabe was pressed on his testimony about what had been verified in the dossier and all he came up with was the page meeting. These are guys who hated trump and were trying to save their asses, and that’s all they could verify? Seems sketchy to anyone with a brain.

OPGenesis
02-27-2018, 03:37 AM
This is easily the dumbest comparison I have ever seen and doesn't apply in the slightest. Good lord man. You had to try to fail this hard

Anyway, don't spend to much time on me. I'm sure you need to captain-save-a-lib someone else. The soy signal is out

Filthy Canadian's. When will they learn?

Stizzel
02-27-2018, 05:05 AM
If you weren't so blinded by partisanship you'd see how dumb your comment was.

Apply that logic to literally anything else.

As a simple example, if I say I hate soccer, how should you interpret that.

1. I hate soccer.
2. I hate some soccer, but I actually love some soccer, and how dare you say I hate all soccer.

According to you, option 2 is what I must obviously mean.

LOL

Thats enough cringe for this week

|ceman
02-27-2018, 06:57 AM
Nothing shady about rice saying she wasn’t involved in any unmasking... oh wait nvm I was but promise it was all legal!!!

ah yes, the pivot to a whatabout.

nice to see you finally realize that the GOP memo was full of lies and that the Schiff memo exposes Nunes for being a shady partisan hack more concerned with brownosing trump than protecting law and order.

Stizzel
02-27-2018, 07:35 AM
ah yes, the pivot to a whatabout.

nice to see you finally realize that the GOP memo was full of lies and that the Schiff memo exposes Nunes for being a shady partisan hack more concerned with brownosing trump than protecting law and order.

Theres nothing in schiffs memo to indicate unverified information was not use to get fisa warrants nor to refute mccabes testimony that without the unverified dossier the warrants would nit have been approved.

I get that it can be fun to pick a team and play the partisan game but theres a point when it behooves you to apply a little objectivity.

|ceman
02-27-2018, 08:35 AM
Theres nothing in schiffs memo to indicate unverified information was not use to get fisa warrants nor to refute mccabes testimony that without the unverified dossier the warrants would nit have been approved.

I get that it can be fun to pick a team and play the partisan game but theres a point when it behooves you to apply a little objectivity.

is it required to verify all information submitted as part of a FISA request (i.e. probable cause)? asking for a friend.

beowulf10
02-27-2018, 08:49 AM
Theres nothing in schiffs memo to indicate unverified information was not use to get fisa warrants nor to refute mccabes testimony that without the unverified dossier the warrants would nit have been approved.

I get that it can be fun to pick a team and play the partisan game but theres a point when it behooves you to apply a little objectivity.

The general line of argument from Trump supporters is that some combination of Obama administration officials, Deep State government officials, DNC personnel, and people on Clinton's campaign used a fake dossier as a pretext to obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on the Trump campaign, and further, this information was used to create some media narrative about Russian collusion; and because of all these things the Russian collusion stuff is one big setup and therefore the Mueller investigation is not legitimate.

However, what the Schiff memo reveals, and what the pro-trump media doesn't want to talk about, is that it doesn't really matter that Steele's dossier instigated the October 2016 FISA warrant.

According to the Schiff memo -- and remember: Republicans have not refuted the details of the Schiff memo -- the October 2016 FISA warrant was part of a broader counter-intelligence investigation which began with Papadapolous and which eventually included investigations into 5 Trump campaign officials/players BEFORE the FBI counter-intelligence team investigating these matters got its hands on the Steele dossier. Further, there was enough information gleamed from the first FISA warrant on Page that it was renewed 3 more times by the government and in some cases renewed by Trump's own appointees.

I understand you think Trump is wonderful, and you will defend him until the bitter end, but at some point, as we look back on recent history, Trump becomes responsible for his own actions. The deep-state did not hire Trump's campaign personnel. The DNC did not get Flynn hooked up with Trump. The mass media did not persuade Trump to hire Manafort. Trump did all these things. Trump is responsible for the mess he's in.

dweeegs
02-27-2018, 08:55 AM
I believe Simpson has already walked back in that claim, there were reports almost immediately after his hearing. Simpson is full of ****.

Pretty sure McCabe was pressed on his testimony about what had been verified in the dossier and all he came up with was the page meeting. These are guys who hated trump and were trying to save their asses, and that’s all they could verify? Seems sketchy to anyone with a brain.

Yea he did. He said he mischaracterized the person and it wasn’t a Trump insider or anything... but that person was referring to that Aussie government official? Like that seems he was looking for someone to say ‘well actually I meant this guy’ cause that’s kinda hard to mix up

McCabe’s stuff was all behind closed doors. Nunes said he’s open to releasing the transcript so let’s hope he wasn’t bluffing