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Ellesig44
08-25-2017, 11:26 AM
Hey Guys,

So I'm starting my second prep for a bikini competition...right now I'm about 3 months out and 12-13% body fat. My coach has given me a meal plan that's pretty basic/strict...with cheat days, and we set the expectation that I wouldn't get super strict until about 2 months out.

Anyway, the problem I'm having now and even with my last prep...eating the same type of foods causes me to LOOSE my appetite and I end up under-eating. So when I have weeks of just cycling chicken/fish/potatoes/greens beans, and my coaches want me to eat this six times a day...I will stick to the diet but will miss meals because my appetite is gone or because I can't gag down another piece of chicken breast. And I feel like the under-eating can sabotage my gains/workouts, etc.


I cut pretty easily, and for me 2-4 weeks of eating the same five foods is about as much as I can tolerate. Even with cheat meals, on my clean strict days I'm just not getting the calories I should be. When I'm not prepping I'm a flexible dieter and Macro tracker.

Even right now as I'm sitting here it's 1pm in the afternoon and I've only had about 2 meals and 500 calories and I have no desire to eat anything, even though I need to and I have a workout coming up.

Anyway, wanted to see if any tips on getting over this. Subbing foods is the obvious answer but my coach wants me to stick to the current diet. This is also our first time working together so he's preparing me for stricter days while learning how my body responds.

I get the benefits of eating certain things during prep, bulk, cut, etc...but is it worth it if I'm not getting proper calories and nutrition? I guess I'll just have to learn how to force feed and make myself eat (I literally gag and stop chewing, haha).

gbullock32
08-25-2017, 11:40 AM
Well let me ask you this- Does your body see protein, fat, and carbs, and calories? Or does it see chicken, beef, fish, pasta, fruit, oats, cereal?

The answer is, it sees macro/micro-nutrients, fiber, calories; not the actual food item. So assuming they are the same/similar in content, you can eat whatever it is you like. Being that you're prepping, subbing oats for something like ice cream may not be the best option due to satiation and nutrients; but rice for pats, or pasta would be good rotations.

If you hate what you are doing, but could enjoy the process with the same results with a little more variety, than why force yourself to be miserable?

bcradio
08-25-2017, 11:43 AM
My coach has given me a meal plan that's pretty basic/strict...with cheat days, and we set the expectation that I wouldn't get super strict until about 2 months out.


Time for a new coach!

Ellesig44
08-25-2017, 12:12 PM
If you hate what you are doing, but could enjoy the process with the same results with a little more variety, than why force yourself to be miserable?

Exactly, I think I could get the same and great results with a bit more variety, but I'm new to the sport and want to try the traditional/expert way...I want to win, haha! If prep dieting were easy then everyone would do it...those are my thoughts, but I'm a little surprised at how strongly my body reacts to eating the same things. It's not even like, a purely psychological reaction (boredom, want comfort foods...what you'd expect), but a physiological one where it feels like my body is rejecting the food after awhile.

gbullock32
08-25-2017, 12:14 PM
Exactly, I think I could get the same and great results with a bit more variety, but I'm new to the sport and want to try the traditional/expert way...I want to win, haha! If prep dieting were easy then everyone would do it...those are my thoughts, but I'm a little surprised at how strongly my body reacts to eating the same things. It's not even like, a purely psychological reaction (which is what you'd expect), but a physiological one where it feels like my body is rejecting the food after awhile.If it is not sustainable than it will never be optimal.

Ellesig44
08-25-2017, 12:29 PM
If it is not sustainable than it will never be optimal.

Prep diet being sustainable wasn't really my question though :-) Personally, I don't think it is or is supposed to be.

Sustainability for me is flex dieting.

I guess I was just wondering if anyone else has this issue with food during a prep and how they handled it, or did you just get used to it after awhile?

kitpapa
08-25-2017, 12:34 PM
Prep diet being sustainable wasn't really my question though :-) Personally, I don't think it is or is supposed to be.

Sustainability for me is flex dieting.

I guess I was just wondering if anyone else has this issue with food during a prep and how they handled it, or did you just get used to it after awhile?

You do not need a coach that is into broscience! I can only see where this is headed with hours of cardio and very low calories. I contest prep with sweets and great steaks and anything I want pretty much plus little cardio. So do my clients.

And you are already 12-13%bf??? That's quite low. What are you trying to get to? How was your bf measured?

Ellesig44
08-25-2017, 12:40 PM
You do not need a coach that is into broscience! I can only see where this is headed with hours of cardio and very low calories. I contest prep with sweets and great steaks and anything I want pretty much plus little cardio. So do my clients.

And you are already 12-13%bf??? That's quite low. What are you trying to get to? How was your bf measured?


Just to be clear he's programmed plenty of calories, my problem is eating them :-/
And also cheat meals are programmed.
Cardio is about 3-4hrs a week with + few short HIIT style workouts.

we did the caliper and got 12%, and I also did an ultrasound body-fat test and got 13.5%...so maybe I should say 12-14%.

Since my last prep I've maintained well with a VERY flexible diet and macro counting.

kitpapa
08-25-2017, 12:48 PM
Just to be clear he's programmed plenty of calories, my problem is eating them :-/
And also cheat meals are programmed.
Cardio is about 3-4hrs a week with + few short HIIT style workouts.

we did the caliper and got 12%, and I also did an ultrasound body-fat test and got 13.5%...so maybe I should say 12-14%.

Since my last prep I've maintained well with a VERY flexible diet and macro counting.

Cheat meals are not necessary if prep is done with a variety tho. Just no need for it. Glad calories are high now but they may not stay that way for long considering the restrictiveness already.
You can't eat them bc it is restricted! And WAY TOO MUCH cardio. If you love cardio by all means, however you could be easily wasting muscle.
Bikini girls typically should not come in a whole lot less than 12 that's why I ask, unless you are undermuscled. But I don't have a pic so can't really tell

If this is how you want to do prep then ok...its just not ideal

And if you cannot force yourself to eat this on his plan than 2 things will happen...you will either go off plan or you will lose a LOT of muscle from undereating

okayest
08-25-2017, 01:02 PM
How many grams of protein are you eating? What is your height and weight?

ironwill2008
08-25-2017, 02:16 PM
Hey Guys,

So I'm starting my second prep for a bikini competition...right now I'm about 3 months out and 12-13% body fat. My coach has given me a meal plan that's pretty basic/strict...with cheat days, and we set the expectation that I wouldn't get super strict until about 2 months out.

Anyway, the problem I'm having now and even with my last prep...eating the same type of foods causes me to LOOSE my appetite and I end up under-eating. So when I have weeks of just cycling chicken/fish/potatoes/greens beans, and my coaches want me to eat this six times a day...I will stick to the diet but will miss meals because my appetite is gone or because I can't gag down another piece of chicken breast. And I feel like the under-eating can sabotage my gains/workouts, etc.


I cut pretty easily, and for me 2-4 weeks of eating the same five foods is about as much as I can tolerate. Even with cheat meals, on my clean strict days I'm just not getting the calories I should be. When I'm not prepping I'm a flexible dieter and Macro tracker.

Even right now as I'm sitting here it's 1pm in the afternoon and I've only had about 2 meals and 500 calories and I have no desire to eat anything, even though I need to and I have a workout coming up.

Anyway, wanted to see if any tips on getting over this. Subbing foods is the obvious answer but my coach wants me to stick to the current diet. This is also our first time working together so he's preparing me for stricter days while learning how my body responds.

I get the benefits of eating certain things during prep, bulk, cut, etc...but is it worth it if I'm not getting proper calories and nutrition? I guess I'll just have to learn how to force feed and make myself eat (I literally gag and stop chewing, haha).

Post a pic of your current condition. Something doesn't add up here.

Ellesig44
08-25-2017, 02:58 PM
I trust my coach, it's just hard as a flexible dieter to go to the traditional chicken and broc**** diet. If this keeps up we'll probably change up the foods. He would like me to eat a more 'consistent' diet but I know that will never happen for me, haha, unless it's like the last month of prep...I can suck it up for then.

Didn't want to turn this into a full blown analysis of my program, but here goes...

Stats: 127-130lbs (127 at last weigh in during the morning).

I usually eat about my body weight/gram in protein (135g)...if I eat my current plan it would out me at about 150g of protein.

Attached is a current pic, a little soft from the summer!

bcradio
08-25-2017, 03:19 PM
What are your goals before the contest? Lose more body-fat? Lose water weight? Gain muscle?

okayest
08-25-2017, 03:28 PM
Didn't want to turn this into a full blown analysis of my program, but here goes...

Stats: 127-130lbs (127 at last weigh in during the morning).

I usually eat about my body weight/gram in protein (135g)...if I eat my current plan it would out me at about 150g of protein.

I was only curious if you were eating a stupid high amount of protein that was killing your appetite.

You look good! I hope you get your prep sorted.

Ellesig44
08-25-2017, 04:14 PM
What are your goals before the contest? Lose more body-fat? Lose water weight? Gain muscle?

We are shooting for 10% body fat! I do want to add some muscle I'm actually a bit smaller in this picture compared to earlier in the year/during my last comp.

AdamWW
08-25-2017, 04:16 PM
We are shooting for 10% body fat! I do want to add some muscle I'm actually a bit smaller in this picture compared to earlier in the year/during my last comp.

As a woman you will not get to 10%... why base it on a number when appearance is what counts in these things?

10% for a female is like 2% for a male... you'd be dead.

You might be closer to 17%-18%, but it's hard to judge (for me) on women... I just know that if I were at your level of leanness (as a dude) I'd probably say I was about 10%

kitpapa
08-25-2017, 07:11 PM
As a woman you will not get to 10%... why base it on a number when appearance is what counts in these things?

10% for a female is like 2% for a male... you'd be dead.

You might be closer to 17%-18%, but it's hard to judge (for me) on women... I just know that if I were at your level of leanness (as a dude) I'd probably say I was about 10%

Ummm a female doesn't die at 10%. But I really feel as tho, unless you carry little muscle, 10% is jist too low for bikini

AdamWW
08-25-2017, 08:01 PM
Ummm a female doesn't die at 10%. But I really feel as tho, unless you carry little muscle, 10% is jist too low for bikini

I'm just referencing bodyfat charts wherein men's 'essential fat' is listed at 2-5% and for women it is listed at 10%-13%...

So, if you adjust, that'd be like 2% in a man... 2%, as far as I know, is basically comatose... even stage-ready pro's probably don't achieve 2% in 99.9999% of cases with the support high-dose anabolics and other drugs to keep them functional.

For example, when Alberto Nunez had his DEXA very close to competition day, it was 6.2% for a dude, which looked like this:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OHg7OdvFYWA/hqdefault.jpg

If that is 6.2%, then he's still 1.2% ABOVE the HIGH threshold for 'essential' fat.... which would be like a female's 14.2% (roughly)...

So unless there's real data from multiple DEXA scans on super-lean females that confirm 10% is attainable without being at least very close to deadly levels, I don't think i'm too far off.

Ellesig44
08-27-2017, 12:14 PM
I'm just referencing bodyfat charts wherein men's 'essential fat' is listed at 2-5% and for women it is listed at 10%-13%...

So, if you adjust, that'd be like 2% in a man... 2%, as far as I know, is basically comatose... even stage-ready pro's probably don't achieve 2% in 99.9999% of cases with the support high-dose anabolics and other drugs to keep them functional.

For example, when Alberto Nunez had his DEXA very close to competition day, it was 6.2% for a dude, which looked like this:


If that is 6.2%, then he's still 1.2% ABOVE the HIGH threshold for 'essential' fat.... which would be like a female's 14.2% (roughly)...

So unless there's real data from multiple DEXA scans on super-lean females that confirm 10% is attainable without being at least very close to deadly levels, I don't think i'm too far off.


Dexa scan always comes in higher, I did one my last competition and I was 17% bodyfat. So 10% using my current measuring method isn't really 10% on the Dexa scan. It's just a number/goal we have in mind, and as long as we use the same method before and after for tracking body fat we should get an accurate idea of how much I was able to cut.

Norsten
08-27-2017, 12:40 PM
Just an opinion from someone who's never competed in a physique contest: dressings made chicken and rice an enjoyable everyday meal. BBQ sauce, ketchup, mustard, yoghurt sauce etc. may have some calories but will get your boring meals actually enjoyable

Ellesig44
08-27-2017, 02:18 PM
Just an opinion from someone who's never competed in a physique contest: dressings made chicken and rice an enjoyable everyday meal. BBQ sauce, ketchup, mustard, yoghurt sauce etc. may have some calories but will get your boring meals actually enjoyable


Yeah I need to get some hot sauce and GF BBQ sauce.

When I do another prep it's going to be IFFYM style for sure!

kitpapa
08-27-2017, 06:45 PM
I'm just referencing bodyfat charts wherein men's 'essential fat' is listed at 2-5% and for women it is listed at 10%-13%...

So, if you adjust, that'd be like 2% in a man... 2%, as far as I know, is basically comatose... even stage-ready pro's probably don't achieve 2% in 99.9999% of cases with the support high-dose anabolics and other drugs to keep them functional.

For example, when Alberto Nunez had his DEXA very close to competition day, it was 6.2% for a dude, which looked like this:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OHg7OdvFYWA/hqdefault.jpg

If that is 6.2%, then he's still 1.2% ABOVE the HIGH threshold for 'essential' fat.... which would be like a female's 14.2% (roughly)...

So unless there's real data from multiple DEXA scans on super-lean females that confirm 10% is attainable without being at least very close to deadly levels, I don't think i'm too far off.

From personal experience there are plenty of women who compete less than 10% and are fine. That's my only point

AdamWW
08-27-2017, 06:57 PM
From personal experience there are plenty of women who compete less than 10% and are fine. That's my only point

You say that, but how do you know they're 10%...

I mean if they're 10%, then you must think im like 3-4% in my profile picture.

AdamWW
08-27-2017, 06:58 PM
Dexa scan always comes in higher, I did one my last competition and I was 17% bodyfat. So 10% using my current measuring method isn't really 10% on the Dexa scan. It's just a number/goal we have in mind, and as long as we use the same method before and after for tracking body fat we should get an accurate idea of how much I was able to cut.

They come back higher because they're more accurate... that's the point... DEXA is THE MOST accurate method... so whether it's higher or not doesn't matter.. it's the best measurement we have for someone who is alive.

Ellesig44
08-28-2017, 11:47 AM
They come back higher because they're more accurate... that's the point... DEXA is THE MOST accurate method... so whether it's higher or not doesn't matter.. it's the best measurement we have for someone who is alive.

Right, my point is that we're not talking a Dexa-10%, which yeah, that would be low.

This week is going better, I got bulk meal prep. For some reason food you don't want to eat tastes better when someone else cooks it.

Last week I had pizza twice and a dairy queen blizzard (and some cocktails), and still already seeing results on current plan.

Thanks for all the support/input!

AdamWW
08-28-2017, 11:58 AM
Right, my point is that we're not talking a Dexa-10%, which yeah, that would be low.

This week is going better, I got bulk meal prep. For some reason food you don't want to eat tastes better when someone else cooks it.

Last week I had pizza twice and a dairy queen blizzard (and some cocktails), and still already seeing results on current plan.

Thanks for all the support/input!

....a DEXA 10%? WTF...

That's like saying "I weigh 150lb... not a SCALE 150lb... but a broken scale"

Ellesig44
08-29-2017, 07:34 PM
....a DEXA 10%? WTF...

That's like saying "I weigh 150lb... not a SCALE 150lb... but a broken scale"

Lol you are so hung up on this. Several points:


1) Personally, I don't give a f*ck about a number as long as I can see and track results. So in 3 months from now WHEN I MEASURE MY BF AGAIN USING THE SAME METHOD AND IT'S LOWER, I WILL KNOW THAT IVE LOST 'X' PERCENTAGE OF BODY FAT. The point is that BF% will vary based on the method you use, so as long as you use the same before and after, it's fine for this situation, where I'm just measuring for aesthetics. I don't care if it's 10, 12 or 14%...as long as I'm leaning out and looking good for the stage.


2) Define broken. If the scale isn't giving you a number then you can't measure sh*t. If the scale is just 'off' and you're just generally trying to lose 10lbs, fun fact, you can still track that loss even if the weight is not accurate, as long as you use the same damn scale. It also matters if the scale is off by 5lb or 50lbs. Sure, if you have a weigh in or something you might want to get the most accurate measurement. But thank god no one is checking BF % before you get on the stage in order to qualify to compete!


3) I did a ultra sound based BF measurement, the one I posted above, and they claim to be even MORE accurate than a Dexa scan...I mean who the fck even knows with these things...

4) I'm not going to 'lean out to death' because then I won't win sh*t, so no need to lose sleep at night :-D