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sonnydfrizzy
02-17-2017, 02:03 PM
The forum limit has been reached on part two. Here is the new thread.

Link to part 1: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=70778&page=1
Link to part 2: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=149942713&page=1

Thank you to everyone who has participated in the older threads. Let's change our lives, impact others and improve our relationships with food.

ironwill2008
02-17-2017, 02:09 PM
Thanks.

AdamWW
02-17-2017, 02:12 PM
Reposting most recent item as it was cut off:

Originally Posted by clk99
"So after relapsing I'm finding myself at my lowest point ever at <125 lbs and reaping the physical consequences of officially being "underweight"...awaiting bloodwork results now to see what's going on in my body. A lot of the issues and symptoms I've been having lately are big indicators of some medical conditions (mainly low blood sugar) so I'm anxious to find out.

But this is the first time I've actually given in to the decision of gaining weight. I'm small, can't gain muscle, and frequently feel weak and drained- both physically and mentally. With my parents and my dr knowing that I'm underweight I have to be accountable anyway, and I've been told to limit exercise and start eating around the clock- which hasn't been that hard for me to accept, it's just a big lifestyle change since I'd normally do lots of cardio and restrict until dinnertime on a daily basis.

Sorry if you've already posted here about it before, I know Adam and Grappa have but idk how to dig up those posts. But for those of you who've gone through it, what is to be expected in the early stages of recovery/refeeding/etc? Constant eating and no cardio or lifting allowed? Just no cardio? A limited mix of both, just going by how you feel day-to-day? I don't compel myself to exercise if I feel weak anymore, which is both a major step and kind of necessary now because of how weak I feel sometimes. I get depressed if I just sit around all day so I like to get out and do moderate activity just for my mental health if I'm up to it...but when it comes to lifting, I have little to no motivation at all most days. This is probably part of my ED speaking here, but I desperately want to channel my caloric surplus to building muscle. My arms are thin and the last thing I want is a skinny-fat physique with thin arms and a big gut. I don't know if it's true or not that I'll end up this way if I don't work out consistently. My thoughts are just influenced by the statements you find in internet articles that say you need to do X amount of strength training per week to gain weight healthily.

And then with food...I don't know much about the science of it, but I'm convinced I messed up my hormones and hunger signals with my restricting patterns. I never feel full, yet sometimes I'm unsure if I'm actually hungry either. I never feel satiated though, I have to distract myself with something like going on a walk to stop eating or wanting food. I often find myself mentally hating food but physically wanting more. Do you just keep eating in these situations?

Sorry if my questions are a bit confusing and any input is much appreciated. Thoughts and prayers are with you all in your individual paths toward recovery."

AdamWW
02-17-2017, 02:13 PM
My response to clk:

I'll try and answer all the questions you asked with some basic advice, because it seems like what you're doing is over-complicating things, which is exactly what I do.

Sonny has provided awesome advice on how to combat this for me.

Asking questions to yourself or to others (including this forum) concerning what the 'best approach' is, or worrying about which combination of food intake/cardio/lifting will help you get through the process is likely not the best way of thinking about things. Your #1 goal is your mental health. Yes, your physical healing needs to happen, but you don't want to put a bandaid on this and expect it to get better. When you fix how you think about food and exercise, the physical changes will happen.

Case-in-point, you're still thinking about how food contributes to your fat/muscle or appearance, instead of treating food as a necessary fuel for daily life. It's only when you stop associating food with fat gain and body composition that you'll be able to objectively move forward.

Ramping down exercise is usually a good idea because, right now, you're associating the food you eat with exercise, because one is the input and the other is the output... you're doing math equations in your head as a means to CONTROL that association, and that's the problem.

What you need to do is set yourself up for success by understanding what it is you're trying to control, WHY you're trying to control it, and then removing your triggers.

I'm sure other people can explain more eloquently, but that's what I've experienced so far. Everyone has their own pace and approach, too, so it's hard for me to give specific step by step answers.

Oatmealman99
02-17-2017, 02:21 PM
In on the first page, I hope to better my life and help others.

Grappa
02-17-2017, 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by clk99
"So after relapsing I'm finding myself at my lowest point ever at <125 lbs and reaping the physical consequences of officially being "underweight"...awaiting bloodwork results now to see what's going on in my body. A lot of the issues and symptoms I've been having lately are big indicators of some medical conditions (mainly low blood sugar) so I'm anxious to find out.

But this is the first time I've actually given in to the decision of gaining weight. I'm small, can't gain muscle, and frequently feel weak and drained- both physically and mentally. With my parents and my dr knowing that I'm underweight I have to be accountable anyway, and I've been told to limit exercise and start eating around the clock- which hasn't been that hard for me to accept, it's just a big lifestyle change since I'd normally do lots of cardio and restrict until dinnertime on a daily basis.

Sorry if you've already posted here about it before, I know Adam and Grappa have but idk how to dig up those posts. But for those of you who've gone through it, what is to be expected in the early stages of recovery/refeeding/etc? Constant eating and no cardio or lifting allowed? Just no cardio? A limited mix of both, just going by how you feel day-to-day? I don't compel myself to exercise if I feel weak anymore, which is both a major step and kind of necessary now because of how weak I feel sometimes. I get depressed if I just sit around all day so I like to get out and do moderate activity just for my mental health if I'm up to it...but when it comes to lifting, I have little to no motivation at all most days. This is probably part of my ED speaking here, but I desperately want to channel my caloric surplus to building muscle. My arms are thin and the last thing I want is a skinny-fat physique with thin arms and a big gut. I don't know if it's true or not that I'll end up this way if I don't work out consistently. My thoughts are just influenced by the statements you find in internet articles that say you need to do X amount of strength training per week to gain weight healthily.

And then with food...I don't know much about the science of it, but I'm convinced I messed up my hormones and hunger signals with my restricting patterns. I never feel full, yet sometimes I'm unsure if I'm actually hungry either. I never feel satiated though, I have to distract myself with something like going on a walk to stop eating or wanting food. I often find myself mentally hating food but physically wanting more. Do you just keep eating in these situations?

Sorry if my questions are a bit confusing and any input is much appreciated. Thoughts and prayers are with you all in your individual paths toward recovery."

Oookay, first of all ath this phase, i know it is hard to do, but stop lifting/cardio etc. I had to do the same, cuz 1: i had 0 energy, 2: my body would been unable to handle anymore stress. I am going to tell the truth: You will, and you have to gain fat. DO not see fat as a bad thing right now, actually fat will going to save you right now. Why? It will help regulate your hunger, will going to restore your hormones etc. When i was at early refeeding, i have not even moved out of the house for 4 months i think, my only activity was to get down to the supermarket, get food and get back up. Intake wise: eat what u likes, in terms of number i was on a 2700 cal mealplan right back that time, but i have become hypermetabolic fast, cuz i have overfed myself hardcore, which is dangerous, cuz u can get RES, but at that state i was unable to control my hunger, i was always hungry no matter how much i have eaten, i dreamed about food, i have thinked about food all day. I used to be a slave of the kitchen i loved cooking, make wonderful plates etc.. This passed luckily and if i have to cook my meals now... i just throw random **** togather xD Mental relief will follow the weight gain. I am not saying that mentally you are going to be free again, you will just going to be stable. Which means: U are prbly not going to relapse, u know u'r triggers, and you can overcome your triggers. (Total mental recovery finishes 2-3 years after weight restoration, cuz of the starvation you fked up your neurotransmitters which has to be repaired). Also at this state your body comp should be the last to worry about. Lifting can wait for you, cardio also, but your health not. Yes, after the first part of my refeeding i was "skinny fat". But your body will recomp after you can start moving again.

I hope i have given you some helpful advice, but feel free to pm me, if u want to ask more questions about refeeding.

AdamWW
02-17-2017, 05:22 PM
Flipping your motivations is something that has been helping me the last couple days.

Instead of thinking of controlling my bodyfat or weight + leanness with food and exercise, I'm trying to think in terms of how big I can get (in a relatively healthy way) and prove to myself, my friends, coworkers, and family that I am capable of not being scrawny. It sounds silly but I literally imagine what people's reaction will be once I pack on 20-30pounds, a lot of it muscle, walking around looking more full and strong... just have to shift the goal... seems to help me anyway.

clk99
02-17-2017, 05:38 PM
Guess I'm in on the first page too, thanks for moving my post.

My response to clk:

I'll try and answer all the questions you asked with some basic advice, because it seems like what you're doing is over-complicating things, which is exactly what I do.

Sonny has provided awesome advice on how to combat this for me.

Asking questions to yourself or to others (including this forum) concerning what the 'best approach' is, or worrying about which combination of food intake/cardio/lifting will help you get through the process is likely not the best way of thinking about things. Your #1 goal is your mental health. Yes, your physical healing needs to happen, but you don't want to put a bandaid on this and expect it to get better. When you fix how you think about food and exercise, the physical changes will happen.

Case-in-point, you're still thinking about how food contributes to your fat/muscle or appearance, instead of treating food as a necessary fuel for daily life. It's only when you stop associating food with fat gain and body composition that you'll be able to objectively move forward.

Ramping down exercise is usually a good idea because, right now, you're associating the food you eat with exercise, because one is the input and the other is the output... you're doing math equations in your head as a means to CONTROL that association, and that's the problem.

What you need to do is set yourself up for success by understanding what it is you're trying to control, WHY you're trying to control it, and then removing your triggers.

I'm sure other people can explain more eloquently, but that's what I've experienced so far. Everyone has their own pace and approach, too, so it's hard for me to give specific step by step answers.

Thanks. I've actually been breaking free of the way I view exercise for the past week and I've made incredible mental progress. Basically, I haven't used exercise as a means of creating a caloric deficit, only as a means of enjoyment and a way to get out of the house. On the other hand, lifting isn't enjoyable and (for me right now) is a way of trying to be "in control" of the way my body uses these thousands of calories I've been eating.

I suppose I should view exercise and lifting more as a hobby and less of a fitness thing. I mean, I wouldn't do a hobby if I didn't feel up to it. Is that kind of how it works in your life?



Oookay, first of all ath this phase, i know it is hard to do, but stop lifting/cardio etc. I had to do the same, cuz 1: i had 0 energy, 2: my body would been unable to handle anymore stress. I am going to tell the truth: You will, and you have to gain fat. DO not see fat as a bad thing right now, actually fat will going to save you right now. Why? It will help regulate your hunger, will going to restore your hormones etc. When i was at early refeeding, i have not even moved out of the house for 4 months i think, my only activity was to get down to the supermarket, get food and get back up. Intake wise: eat what u likes, in terms of number i was on a 2700 cal mealplan right back that time, but i have become hypermetabolic fast, cuz i have overfed myself hardcore, which is dangerous, cuz u can get RES, but at that state i was unable to control my hunger, i was always hungry no matter how much i have eaten, i dreamed about food, i have thinked about food all day. I used to be a slave of the kitchen i loved cooking, make wonderful plates etc.. This passed luckily and if i have to cook my meals now... i just throw random **** togather xD Mental relief will follow the weight gain. I am not saying that mentally you are going to be free again, you will just going to be stable. Which means: U are prbly not going to relapse, u know u'r triggers, and you can overcome your triggers. (Total mental recovery finishes 2-3 years after weight restoration, cuz of the starvation you fked up your neurotransmitters which has to be repaired). Also at this state your body comp should be the last to worry about. Lifting can wait for you, cardio also, but your health not. Yes, after the first part of my refeeding i was "skinny fat". But your body will recomp after you can start moving again.

I hope i have given you some helpful advice, but feel free to pm me, if u want to ask more questions about refeeding.

Gaining fat has always been my #1 fear but yeah, I'm coming to understand that I need to accept it and it will happen if I want my hormones to operate normally. I used to be addicted to tracking cals so I try very hard not to think in terms of calories anymore, although I can make decent estimates...recently I've probably been doing 2500-3500 a day. Thing is, I'm rarely bloated after eating. My abs are still visible after several days of massive eating with little to no exercise. Anxious to weigh myself after a week of doing this to see if I'm actually eating enough. Thanks for the input, man. Might send you a few questions.

AdamWW
02-17-2017, 05:41 PM
Guess I'm in on the first page too, thanks for moving my post.


Thanks. I've actually been breaking free of the way I view exercise for the past week and I've made incredible mental progress. Basically, I haven't used exercise as a means of creating a caloric deficit, only as a means of enjoyment and a way to get out of the house. On the other hand, lifting isn't enjoyable and (for me right now) is a way of trying to be "in control" of the way my body uses these thousands of calories I've been eating.



Gaining fat has always been my #1 fear but yeah, I'm coming to understand that I need to accept it and it will happen if I want my hormones to operate normally. I used to be addicted to tracking cals so I try very hard not to think in terms of calories anymore, although I can make decent estimates...recently I've probably been doing 2500-3500 a day. Thing is, I'm rarely bloated after eating. My abs are still visible after several days of massive eating with little to no exercise. Anxious to weigh myself after a week of doing this to see if I'm actually eating enough. Thanks for the input, man.

Unless this kind of tracking helps you, it might be best to not think about the numbers at all right away... not weighing yourself or giving yourself reasons to get triggers. What if you weigh yourself and you gained 3 pounds? What would your reaction be?

clk99
02-17-2017, 05:53 PM
Unless this kind of tracking helps you, it might be best to not think about the numbers at all right away... not weighing yourself or giving yourself reasons to get triggers. What if you weigh yourself and you gained 3 pounds? What would your reaction be?

Not sure honestly. There's still that little thing inside of me that doesn't want me to be over a certain weight. It depends on the circumstances I guess...if I still look okay then weight gain is easier to accept. But the fact that I feel this way is a big red flag that I won't accept it.

I've actually grown very uninterested with how I weigh in the past few months...similar to how I grew uninterested with tracking my calories. The only reason I would want to weigh myself is to see if I'm eating enough food. My parents and doctor know I'm underweight now and I don't get to be in complete control over food, weight and activity anymore.

AdamWW
02-17-2017, 06:19 PM
Not sure honestly. There's still that little thing inside of me that doesn't want me to be over a certain weight. It depends on the circumstances I guess...if I still look okay then weight gain is easier to accept. But the fact that I feel this way is a big red flag that I won't accept it.

I've actually grown very uninterested with how I weigh in the past few months...similar to how I grew uninterested with tracking my calories. The only reason I would want to weigh myself is to see if I'm eating enough food. My parents and doctor know I'm underweight now and I don't get to be in complete control over food, weight and activity anymore.

I would argue that, if there's a little voice in your head not wanting you to go over a weight, then you might not wanna weigh yourself. If you go over a weight, it'll trigger you most likely. I'd also say: stop looking at your abs... stop over-analyzing the parts of your body you are most critical of.. it'll just make it harder.

AdamWW
02-18-2017, 09:37 AM
Happy weekend everyone. Go out, enjoy life, friends, family, and focus on the bigger picture. You're bigger than your disorder, and so is life.

Cheers!

Grappa
02-18-2017, 03:11 PM
Happy weekend everyone. Go out, enjoy life, friends, family, and focus on the bigger picture. You're bigger than your disorder, and so is life.

Cheers!

I have spent most of the day in front of my pc while i have been played world of warcraft xD

AdamWW
02-18-2017, 05:27 PM
I have spent most of the day in front of my pc while i have been played world of warcraft xD

I played some Diablo 3 myself ;)

Also went and checked out 7 houses... looking to buy one soon. Otherwise, too tired to train... second rest day in a row. Zero fuks given :)

MosToorani
02-18-2017, 08:30 PM
I played some Diablo 3 myself ;)

Also went and checked out 7 houses... looking to buy one soon. Otherwise, too tired to train... second rest day in a row. Zero fuks given :)

That's the spirit!

In on first page!

So last thursday i went out to dinner with the family, it was a nice meal and i knew i was below the amount of calories that I usually consume in a day but the weather was ugly .. it was raining heavily and i was too tired.. so i went back home and straight to bed!

Nevertheless, i thought i'd consume an extra 600 cals on friday, which i did, and little did i know that i'd wake up on a saturday with uncontrollable loose motion :) (sorry for the visuals)

also, i've lost considerable amount of strength on the bench. 2-3 weeks ago, i was able to do 42.5kg for 5x5 .. yesterday, i could only do 4,4,3,3,3 ..

sigh..

win some, lose some?

Grappa
02-19-2017, 02:24 AM
I played some Diablo 3 myself ;)

Also went and checked out 7 houses... looking to buy one soon. Otherwise, too tired to train... second rest day in a row. Zero fuks given :)

add me on bnet: Grappa#2644
:DDD

Grappa
02-19-2017, 02:32 AM
That's the spirit!

In on first page!

So last thursday i went out to dinner with the family, it was a nice meal and i knew i was below the amount of calories that I usually consume in a day but the weather was ugly .. it was raining heavily and i was too tired.. so i went back home and straight to bed!

Nevertheless, i thought i'd consume an extra 600 cals on friday, which i did, and little did i know that i'd wake up on a saturday with uncontrollable loose motion :) (sorry for the visuals)

also, i've lost considerable amount of strength on the bench. 2-3 weeks ago, i was able to do 42.5kg for 5x5 .. yesterday, i could only do 4,4,3,3,3 ..

sigh..

win some, lose some?

Everyone has theri weeknesses, for me benching, and all of the pushing movements suffer. 1: i have hypermobile elbow ( cuz i broke my left elbow spirally when i was 16 ), 2: i have stupidly long arms, 3: i hate every pushing movements xD I can deadlift 3x mx bodyweight no problem, but when it comes to place for OHP.... I can not break the 40kg barrier... I can start the movement, but i can not fking lock that out...

MosToorani
02-19-2017, 03:42 AM
Everyone has theri weeknesses, for me benching, and all of the pushing movements suffer. 1: i have hypermobile elbow ( cuz i broke my left elbow spirally when i was 16 ), 2: i have stupidly long arms, 3: i hate every pushing movements xD I can deadlift 3x mx bodyweight no problem, but when it comes to place for OHP.... I can not break the 40kg barrier... I can start the movement, but i can not fking lock that out...

Same here!

it seems that pushing movements is my weakness but i'm determined to overcome it!

MT

Bonnappe
02-19-2017, 06:19 AM
Terrible binge again last night, it seems I have the ''need'' to binge 2x a week, however now I'm going to stop them completely. Will report back in a week with better news

AdamWW
02-19-2017, 08:43 AM
add me on bnet: Grappa#2644
:DDD

Added!!

MosToorani
02-19-2017, 09:44 AM
Terrible binge again last night, it seems I have the ''need'' to binge 2x a week, however now I'm going to stop them completely. Will report back in a week with better news

Stay strong!

Grappa
02-19-2017, 09:55 AM
Added!!

I hope it works even if my account is on eu

Grappa
02-19-2017, 02:36 PM
ALrght just got back from my docs, everything went well, we had a nice chatty day.. :D But i am a freak of nature.. I started to grow. Not just my weight goes up, my height also wth is this? I started to notice that my jeans starts to become a bit short, but i tought i am just gaining weight cool. But not.. i have grown 3 cm o_O It is really funny cuz back in august i was 173 now i am 178... what the hell is this? Also this hormonal imbalance/rage/increased libido reminds me of my puberty. But as a 22 year old guy who is still growing?. Wow... I hope i am not gonna get the same results when i was 14, i have grown 25 cm that year....

AdamWW
02-19-2017, 05:21 PM
ALrght just got back from my docs, everything went well, we had a nice chatty day.. :D But i am a freak of nature.. I started to grow. Not just my weight goes up, my height also wth is this? I started to notice that my jeans starts to become a bit short, but i tought i am just gaining weight cool. But not.. i have grown 3 cm o_O It is really funny cuz back in august i was 173 now i am 178... what the hell is this? Also this hormonal imbalance/rage/increased libido reminds me of my puberty. But as a 22 year old guy who is still growing?. Wow... I hope i am not gonna get the same results when i was 14, i have grown 25 cm that year....

Damn, that's a lot of growth for your age. I wonder how that happened? Did they say anything?

AdamWW
02-19-2017, 05:22 PM
Today's been a weird day for me. Started off very hungry... ate bfast.. then had a workout.. and for whatever reason since then I haven't been very hungry at all.. I haven't been active other than the lifting, just working on the computer.. but still, been having to force the calories in. Not like me at all really...

Then again right now my hunger comes in waves so i bet i'll get random urges later.

clk99
02-19-2017, 07:47 PM
ALrght just got back from my docs, everything went well, we had a nice chatty day.. :D But i am a freak of nature.. I started to grow. Not just my weight goes up, my height also wth is this? I started to notice that my jeans starts to become a bit short, but i tought i am just gaining weight cool. But not.. i have grown 3 cm o_O It is really funny cuz back in august i was 173 now i am 178... what the hell is this? Also this hormonal imbalance/rage/increased libido reminds me of my puberty. But as a 22 year old guy who is still growing?. Wow... I hope i am not gonna get the same results when i was 14, i have grown 25 cm that year....

I started noticing the same thing with my jeans too over the past few months. But you're 22 and I'm not even 18 yet, that's pretty strange. I guess it's the body making up for height growth that was stunted during earlier times of restriction?

clk99
02-19-2017, 08:05 PM
My stomach's been feeling like a bottomless pit for the past several days, it's impossible for me to get full. No food of any type fills me up, so I've just been continuing to eat around the clock since I start feeling weak and dizzy if I don't eat frequently enough now. It's just difficult not knowing when to stop.

AdamWW
02-19-2017, 09:43 PM
My stomach's been feeling like a bottomless pit for the past several days, it's impossible for me to get full. No food of any type fills me up, so I've just been continuing to eat around the clock since I start feeling weak and dizzy if I don't eat frequently enough now. It's just difficult not knowing when to stop.

Extreme hunger can be intense.

It's normal in recovery.

MosToorani
02-20-2017, 01:21 AM
Extreme hunger can be intense.

It's normal in recovery.

How do you know that extreme hunger is linked to recovery? I don't know how to explain.. em ..

okay .. I'm hungry all the time .. and even when i consume large meals, i'm still hungry.. i can easily down 3 large pizzas (i've done it on my stupid "cheat" days)...

So what i'm trying to ask is... is it hunger due to recovery? or hunger due to stomach capacity? get me? *sigh*

Grappa
02-20-2017, 02:24 AM
My stomach's been feeling like a bottomless pit for the past several days, it's impossible for me to get full. No food of any type fills me up, so I've just been continuing to eat around the clock since I start feeling weak and dizzy if I don't eat frequently enough now. It's just difficult not knowing when to stop.

I have started to restrict when i was 20

Grappa
02-20-2017, 02:24 AM
How do you know that extreme hunger is linked to recovery? I don't know how to explain.. em ..

okay .. I'm hungry all the time .. and even when i consume large meals, i'm still hungry.. i can easily down 3 large pizzas (i've done it on my stupid "cheat" days)...

So what i'm trying to ask is... is it hunger due to recovery? or hunger due to stomach capacity? get me? *sigh*

Extreme hunger is different if u are really malnourished/underweigh vs if u are just not eating enough

MosToorani
02-20-2017, 02:36 AM
Extreme hunger is different if u are really malnourished/underweigh vs if u are just not eating enough

How can you differentiate? What are the signs?

partydave
02-20-2017, 04:35 AM
I think I finally have to accept that I have an unhealthy relationship with food.

I'm currently around 12-13% BF, 66kg at 1.70m tall.
I will say to myself that I want to start bulking and start taking weight training more seriously (started F5 as a structured plan 2 weeks ago) and then catch myself limiting calories in order to see a drop on the scale.

I get upset when I pick up a few grams over a day and ecstatic when I drop a KG in half a week.

My brain refuses to let me accept that it's okay to pickup weight without getting fat.

I currently eat at 1600 cals a day. 3 weight training sessions a week and 5-8 hours cycling.

AdamWW
02-20-2017, 05:53 AM
I think I finally have to accept that I have an unhealthy relationship with food.

I'm currently around 12-13% BF, 66kg at 1.170m tall.
I will say to myself that I want to start bulking and start taking weight training more seriously (started F5 as a structured plan 2 weeks ago) and then catch myself limiting calories in order to see a drop on the scale.

I get upset when I pick up a few grams over a day and ecstatic when I drop a KG in half a week.

My brain refuses to let me accept that it's okay to pickup weight without getting fat.

I currently eat at 1600 cals a day. 3 weight training sessions a week and 5-8 hours cycling.

You're under 4 feet tall?

partydave
02-20-2017, 06:24 AM
You're under 4 feet tall?
Whoops 1.70m

Will edit post

Grappa
02-20-2017, 06:37 AM
How can you differentiate? What are the signs?

When u are malnourished you eat things what u hate/do not like. I have hated chocolate in my entire life, but when i started the refeeding i have eaten bars of chocolate like no tomorrow, same with dates, and also... Who the fk likes to drink a bottle of oil?

Bonnappe
02-20-2017, 07:26 AM
I feel weird, I haven't binged in a few days but I always feel like I could do so after each and every single meal no matter what or how much do I eat + I constantly seem to think about food. How do I get rid of this?

Grappa
02-20-2017, 07:53 AM
I feel weird, I haven't binged in a few days but I always feel like I could do so after each and every single meal no matter what or how much do I eat + I constantly seem to think about food. How do I get rid of this?

Patience and time

MosToorani
02-20-2017, 09:33 AM
I feel weird, I haven't binged in a few days but I always feel like I could do so after each and every single meal no matter what or how much do I eat + I constantly seem to think about food. How do I get rid of this?

on the same page exactly!!!

MosToorani
02-20-2017, 09:42 AM
When u are malnourished you eat things what u hate/do not like. I have hated chocolate in my entire life, but when i started the refeeding i have eaten bars of chocolate like no tomorrow, same with dates, and also... Who the fk likes to drink a bottle of oil?

ah okay! i definitely don't have those urges.

AdamWW
02-20-2017, 10:33 AM
ah okay! i definitely don't have those urges.

Then it's probably just extreme mental hunger or something... I have similar issues now. Basically I will eat a huge meal, sometimes over 2000 calories, and yet within 10-20minutes it feels like I'm more hungry than before. Typically it will happen when the meal I eat is very nutrient-dense and full of whole, fiberous foods... basically the kind of 'clean' things I would often restrict. I then start to crave fatty, salty, sweet, refined stuff. Once I give in and just eat what I crave, it subsides, but it's not always immediate. Don't worry, it won't last forever. You have to honor your hunger and the process.

AdamWW
02-20-2017, 03:34 PM
I seem to have stumbled upon a contributing factor in my lack of gaining weight on the 'intuitive approach' I followed for the month of January. Because of my habits with food, I believe the high amount of veggies and fruit, plus all the whole grains, make my digestion and BM's (apologies for the TMI) slower. What seems to happen is that, for a couple days, not much with 'happen' with my digection, and my appetite won't be very high other than mental urges, which for me do not induce calorie surplus the way that physical hunger cues do. Then, I'll have one day where everything 'shifts', and I feel utterly empty again, and ravenous, but that never lasts longer than a day. And so, I am not consistently hungry, just in waves.

I think it will be wise that I lower my fiber from what I am used to... such as replacing sweet potatoes with brown rice, oatmeal with other kinds of cereal, and getting slightly less veggies and instead opting for fruit if I'm going for whole foods. That, and of course some less-nutritious items as well. Also more fat.

I noticed this when, for the last few days, I weighed myself every day... and I basically gain 1-2 pounds over 2 days, then lose it all in one day... so I'll THINK i'm on track, but I am not, and instead spin my wheels. To me that means I need more calories constantly going through me that can be quickly processed.

Hoping for improvements :)

Also, I have been consciously upping intake on total rest days where I do zero lifting and little movement... THAT is hard for me, because I used to 'earning' my calories, and I've seemingly programmed my hunger cues to revolve around exhausting myself from movement.

clk99
02-20-2017, 05:23 PM
I feel weird, I haven't binged in a few days but I always feel like I could do so after each and every single meal no matter what or how much do I eat + I constantly seem to think about food. How do I get rid of this?

As others have expressed, the only way you're going to get rid of your unhealthy focus on food is to fill up your time with other activities- I'm sure you're already aware of this, it just takes effort. Even though our situations are different, I've struggled with over-focusing on food too. I've found that the more time I am alone, the easier it is to have unhealthy thoughts about food and body image.

Understand that there's a lot more to this life than food, and assess yourself to see if food is hindering you from enjoying life to the fullest. 50 years from now, the food you're eating tonight isn't going to matter...the things that matter are your happiness and your relationships with others. If binging after a meal is your personal issue, then get out and do something after dinner instead...go on a walk in the sunset, go bowling with friends, play video games or pick up a musical instrument, etc. If you feel you can't handle this alone I'd recommend seeing a therapist about it. Hope things turn out for the better, buddy.

MosToorani
02-20-2017, 08:56 PM
So, I didn't go to the gym yesterday.. felt utterly demotivated after work.. instead, just chilled at home and watched some tv with the family ..

Anyone else feel the same? I've been feeling this way for quite some time now .. not motivated at all to go to the gym and lift weights although it's 5 minutes away from where i live ..

partydave
02-20-2017, 10:23 PM
Managed to eat at 1800 calories without feeling bad yesterday, but then caught myself looking at the scale this morning and being depressed that I "gained" a few grams

Grappa
02-21-2017, 04:06 AM
Managed to eat at 1800 calories without feeling bad yesterday, but then caught myself looking at the scale this morning and being depressed that I "gained" a few grams

Even if u eat 3k+ or 4k+ with that insane activity level, you will not going to gain weight.

AdamWW
02-21-2017, 07:32 AM
Managed to eat at 1800 calories without feeling bad yesterday, but then caught myself looking at the scale this morning and being depressed that I "gained" a few grams

You gained a few grams of water, and likely lost fat.

Keep this in mind... when you are very thin, your bodyweight fluctuates more severely than someone who is at a healthy weight, especially if you're not eating enough. Your bowel movements and digestion are less regular, your body struggles to maintain a fluid balance, and you consume foods at irregular times and in irregular quantities.

Because of this, the process of weighing yourself is a roller coaster. Have you noticed that you'll gain a little bit, then suddenly a couple days later you're back to the same weight? That's all it is: fluid and food in your body shifting.

When I bulked up back in 2012, when I was almost 40lb heavier than I am now, the first 3 weeks were crazy... I'd gain 3 pounds in a single day, then lose it, then gain 4, then lose 3... it was very odd.

After a while, your body normalizes and you can start to track consistently, but it takes time to adjust. I suggest you stop weighing yourself and focus on eating... a LOT. The scale will lie to you and make you scared.

AdamWW
02-21-2017, 07:59 AM
Woke up at 3am and couldn't get back to sleep, so I drove into work today at 5am for my lifting session. Hadn't done an almost-fasted training session in a long time, but when I bulked up in 2012, that's what I did every training day: wake up at 5-530, lift from 6-730, and be done with it. I also have an early morning meeting today from 8-9, so it was a good day to try it out again.

Honestly I was surprised how well it went. And now, I am furiously hungry. In general my acid reflux and stomach issues can make it tough to squat and do heavy compounds (besides bench) much of the time, because it limits the amount of solid food I can have around training. Today, there was no issue because all I did was have 1/2 scoop of protein before heading out.

I did not gain strength on the compounds since last time, but I was pretty focused and not thinking about keeping my stomach calm... which was nice for a chance.

Also, I think I need to modify my approach to tracking in recovery, because I am feeling mental urges to start controlling again when I see numbers in MFP. I want to make sure I am eating enough, but I'm still on the fence as to whether or not it's a good idea to maintain the logs. For example, when I see my carb count go over 500 on a day where I literally did not exercise other than walking, my ED brain starts questioning if I need to eat less regardless of how hungry I feel. Same goes for fat and overall calories.

For that reason... I think I need to track more loosely and NOT in MFP. Perhaps just keeping a general mental note about what I'm doing, then counting in my head at the end of the day just in case I didn't hit the 4k mark.

Otherwise hoping for a good day.

Cheers everyone.

Bonnappe
02-21-2017, 09:06 AM
As others have expressed, the only way you're going to get rid of your unhealthy focus on food is to fill up your time with other activities- I'm sure you're already aware of this, it just takes effort. Even though our situations are different, I've struggled with over-focusing on food too. I've found that the more time I am alone, the easier it is to have unhealthy thoughts about food and body image.

Understand that there's a lot more to this life than food, and assess yourself to see if food is hindering you from enjoying life to the fullest. 50 years from now, the food you're eating tonight isn't going to matter...the things that matter are your happiness and your relationships with others. If binging after a meal is your personal issue, then get out and do something after dinner instead...go on a walk in the sunset, go bowling with friends, play video games or pick up a musical instrument, etc. If you feel you can't handle this alone I'd recommend seeing a therapist about it. Hope things turn out for the better, buddy.
Thank you for your post man, appreciate it a lot

This just seems so crazy, everytime I finish a meal all I can think about is when do I get to eat next. Like the only time I'm not thinking about food or eating is when I'm sleeping

AdamWW
02-21-2017, 09:21 AM
Thank you for your post man, appreciate it a lot

This just seems so crazy, everytime I finish a meal all I can think about is when do I get to eat next. Like the only time I'm not thinking about food or eating is when I'm sleeping

One analogy I like is the 'holding your breath' concept.

Think of it this way: if you are forcing yourself to hold your breath under water, once you finally give in and surface, you're gasping for air.. you cannot get enough.. all you can think about is how much you want more.

The same kind of thing happens with eating and food restriction, and it's multi-faceted. You have a mental, as well as physical urge to 'gasp' and get all the food you want in. It's part biological need, and part your minds' need to convince itself that food isn't going anywhere, and that you don't have to think about it all the time in order to enjoy it. Your mind is used to clicking in after you eat and trying to convince itself that you need more because all it knows right now is that you it may not get fed again for a long time, and also that - once you feed yourself - you might not get enough.

It just tasks time to heal.

Grappa
02-21-2017, 01:00 PM
Woke up at 3am and couldn't get back to sleep, so I drove into work today at 5am for my lifting session. Hadn't done an almost-fasted training session in a long time, but when I bulked up in 2012, that's what I did every training day: wake up at 5-530, lift from 6-730, and be done with it. I also have an early morning meeting today from 8-9, so it was a good day to try it out again.

Honestly I was surprised how well it went. And now, I am furiously hungry. In general my acid reflux and stomach issues can make it tough to squat and do heavy compounds (besides bench) much of the time, because it limits the amount of solid food I can have around training. Today, there was no issue because all I did was have 1/2 scoop of protein before heading out.

I did not gain strength on the compounds since last time, but I was pretty focused and not thinking about keeping my stomach calm... which was nice for a chance.

Also, I think I need to modify my approach to tracking in recovery, because I am feeling mental urges to start controlling again when I see numbers in MFP. I want to make sure I am eating enough, but I'm still on the fence as to whether or not it's a good idea to maintain the logs. For example, when I see my carb count go over 500 on a day where I literally did not exercise other than walking, my ED brain starts questioning if I need to eat less regardless of how hungry I feel. Same goes for fat and overall calories.

For that reason... I think I need to track more loosely and NOT in MFP. Perhaps just keeping a general mental note about what I'm doing, then counting in my head at the end of the day just in case I didn't hit the 4k mark.

Otherwise hoping for a good day.

Cheers everyone.

Do not be afraid, just eat the same everyday. High carb on rest day? no problem. Carbload and have a great workout that's it. 9/10 i am more hungry on rest days than my workout days.

MosToorani
02-21-2017, 08:47 PM
A quick update on my mental situation. *currently at work*

Constantly thinking of food .. I've reverted back to IF in order to consume larger meals at night especially with my love for ice cream and chocolates. I choose either ice cream or chocolate.

Additionally, lacking the motivation / desire to go to the gym today. 2nd session running now .. I'm supposed to be doing 3 times a week, full body routine .. went once only if i end up deciding not to go today.

MT

partydave
02-21-2017, 10:04 PM
You gained a few grams of water, and likely lost fat.

Keep this in mind... when you are very thin, your bodyweight fluctuates more severely than someone who is at a healthy weight, especially if you're not eating enough. Your bowel movements and digestion are less regular, your body struggles to maintain a fluid balance, and you consume foods at irregular times and in irregular quantities.

Because of this, the process of weighing yourself is a roller coaster. Have you noticed that you'll gain a little bit, then suddenly a couple days later you're back to the same weight? That's all it is: fluid and food in your body shifting.

When I bulked up back in 2012, when I was almost 40lb heavier than I am now, the first 3 weeks were crazy... I'd gain 3 pounds in a single day, then lose it, then gain 4, then lose 3... it was very odd.

After a while, your body normalizes and you can start to track consistently, but it takes time to adjust. I suggest you stop weighing yourself and focus on eating... a LOT. The scale will lie to you and make you scared.

This is spot on, word for word.

I overcame a massive hurdle, I ate at 2590 calories yesterday to "make up" for my morning cycle. I also managed not to weigh myself, this was harder than it was supposed to be.

I didn't cycle today, but I did an intense weights session. My mind is telling me to eat 1800 calories, but I know I should be aiming higher. Will see what the day holds.

I have this constant fear of immediately gaining 1kg if I ever so slightly over eat, even if I know I should be bulking

Grappa
02-22-2017, 06:58 AM
So, I didn't go to the gym yesterday.. felt utterly demotivated after work.. instead, just chilled at home and watched some tv with the family ..

Anyone else feel the same? I've been feeling this way for quite some time now .. not motivated at all to go to the gym and lift weights although it's 5 minutes away from where i live ..

NOt motivated = underrecovered = lack of sleep, not enought food. Keep in mind if u are doing full body 3 times a week with all of your effort, lifting that insane number, hitting the hardcore volume, u have to eat a lot to recover. U have to manage intensity/volume. U can not do both at the same time, cuz u ll burn out. This is how i do it for example: power day: get in, max out get the fk home. Volume day: get in, blast it with full force as minimum of rest time between sets as i can handle, get the fk home. My workouts not lasts more than 45 min. 1 hour is the gym is crowded.

Kaged Muscle
02-22-2017, 07:21 AM
I dont mean to hijack the thread, gentleman, but bravo for beginning this. Ive read through all of this and the previous threads. For sometime I have had many men privately contact me with eating disorders. Its obvious that its out there but I've noticed that many men refrain from discussing it publicly, maybe its pride. I just wanted to say its great to see this and I will refer some of the people who contacted me to read this thread. Question; is anyone aware of a charity/foundation that helps male disorder eating?

AdamWW
02-22-2017, 07:54 AM
I dont mean to hijack the thread, gentleman, but bravo for beginning this. Ive read through all of this and the previous threads. For sometime I have had many men privately contact me with eating disorders. Its obvious that its out there but I've noticed that many men refrain from discussing it publicly, maybe its pride. I just wanted to say its great to see this and I will refer some of the people who contacted me to read this thread. Question; is anyone aware of a charity/foundation that helps male disorder eating?

Thanks Kris. This thread has helped many people, including myself. I am not aware of any male-specific foundation but some in here may have some ideas.

sonnydfrizzy
02-22-2017, 08:24 AM
Hey Kris. Check this out:

http://mengetedstoo.co.uk/about-us/about-the-charity

MosToorani
02-22-2017, 07:38 PM
NOt motivated = underrecovered = lack of sleep, not enought food. Keep in mind if u are doing full body 3 times a week with all of your effort, lifting that insane number, hitting the hardcore volume, u have to eat a lot to recover. U have to manage intensity/volume. U can not do both at the same time, cuz u ll burn out. This is how i do it for example: power day: get in, max out get the fk home. Volume day: get in, blast it with full force as minimum of rest time between sets as i can handle, get the fk home. My workouts not lasts more than 45 min. 1 hour is the gym is crowded.

Thank you for this, brother.

I have a trip planned for next week, Guns N Roses concert! *way toooooooo excited!!*

So i'll probably get the motivation back, hopefully!

I have to gain strength .. I want to gain strength .. I need to gain strength!

MT

partydave
02-22-2017, 10:32 PM
2257 calories vs my usual calories, but an empty victory. Every bite I took, I was worried how it's going to cause me to pick up a ton of weight

MosToorani
02-22-2017, 10:38 PM
2257 calories vs my usual calories, but an empty victory. Every bite I took, I was worried how it's going to cause me to pick up a ton of weight

So sorry to hear this .. I used to be on the same page until I realized that life is so much more than worrying about calories..

Honestly though, I'm on a similar page .. I'm worried/afraid that i'll gain weight and the majority of it being fat rather than muscle ..

Stay strong brother.. We'll get through this eventually ..

partydave
02-22-2017, 11:05 PM
So sorry to hear this .. I used to be on the same page until I realized that life is so much more than worrying about calories..

Honestly though, I'm on a similar page .. I'm worried/afraid that i'll gain weight and the majority of it being fat rather than muscle ..

Stay strong brother.. We'll get through this eventually ..
Thank you and good luck to you too

Grappa
02-23-2017, 02:46 AM
2257 calories vs my usual calories, but an empty victory. Every bite I took, I was worried how it's going to cause me to pick up a ton of weight

Do not be afraid of food, food is fuel. If i do not have to deal with hypermetabolism i would not going under that 3500 cals a day that would be my minimum target, keep in mind i have to walk a lot every day, yes it is just walking but that adds up. I have to walk to school, walk my dog. I was intrested how much i walk a day and it is between 6-7 km. PER DAY! That adds up, on top of that when i go to hunting that would be my all out binge day, vuz during saturdays i walk minimum 30km with extra resistance on me. On that day iwithout hypermetabolism i would push my limit up to 5-6k.

MosToorani
02-23-2017, 03:53 AM
Do not be afraid of food, food is fuel. If i do not have to deal with hypermetabolism i would not going under that 3500 cals a day that would be my minimum target, keep in mind i have to walk a lot every day, yes it is just walking but that adds up. I have to walk to school, walk my dog. I was intrested how much i walk a day and it is between 6-7 km. PER DAY! That adds up, on top of that when i go to hunting that would be my all out binge day, vuz during saturdays i walk minimum 30km with extra resistance on me. On that day iwithout hypermetabolism i would push my limit up to 5-6k.

Speaking of walking .. I walk at least 10k steps a day .. which is about 6-7km .. yet i eat 2,100 calories a day .. pfft

AdamWW
02-23-2017, 05:19 AM
Well, I think I need to go back to not writing down my foods/calories/macros or weighing myself. The temptation gets too distracting and I start pondering the contents of my meals.

Seems like cold turkey might be my best bet after all. Weighing myself and registering over the previous days number still triggers me too. I've gained weight but simply knowing how much causes bad emotions.

Grappa
02-23-2017, 01:52 PM
Well, I think I need to go back to not writing down my foods/calories/macros or weighing myself. The temptation gets too distracting and I start pondering the contents of my meals.

Seems like cold turkey might be my best bet after all. Weighing myself and registering over the previous days number still triggers me too. I've gained weight but simply knowing how much causes bad emotions.

Just for u i have tracked my intake today to encourage you to pick up the fork and eat. Here is the day: 190p/870c/125f total: 5365cals. Activity: walking my doge, upper volume. DO NOT be afraid of food food is fuel. moar fuel better performance, better performance=better workouts :)

AdamWW
02-23-2017, 04:36 PM
Just for u i have tracked my intake today to encourage you to pick up the fork and eat. Here is the day: 190p/870c/125f total: 5365cals. Activity: walking my doge, upper volume. DO NOT be afraid of food food is fuel. moar fuel better performance, better performance=better workouts :)

You can definitely eat.

What you mention does bring up an important issue for me, which is the urge to 'earn' my food. I have no energy today... I barely slept... but I know I need to eat. I will, but it makes it hard. Consuming 4000 calories when I barely walk 500 steps and do not lift just isn't normal for me.

partydave
02-23-2017, 09:55 PM
I got on the scale this morning and went from 66kg to 68.7kg after less than a week of increased consumption. My mind immediately started thinking I should cut back to 1800 calories. :(

clk99
02-24-2017, 06:45 AM
Thank you for your post man, appreciate it a lot

This just seems so crazy, everytime I finish a meal all I can think about is when do I get to eat next. Like the only time I'm not thinking about food or eating is when I'm sleeping

Are you physically satiated after eating, but experiencing mental cravings? Or is your body actually demanding more food and that's why you're constantly wanting it? I know you've mentioned "binge eating" before but I don't really know your background other than that, sorry. I'm trying to recover from anorexia/orthorexia and in my initial stages of recovery I thought I was a binge eater but your case could be entirely different.

For me, after every meal I agonize over whether or not I'm full (almost always feel the need for more) and start systematically planning out ways to satiate myself in as few calories as possible. I tend to drag it out and get a lot of anxiety over it, at this point I hardly enjoy food and it's something I've been struggling with lately. I tend to overthink everything, not just food and body image.

clk99
02-24-2017, 07:06 AM
Been really struggling lately. After over a week of not being able to do deliberate cardio/lifting while on a 2800+ calorie diet, I'm getting a real layer of stomach flab like I used to have and it makes me so distressed. I've only gained 1 lb on the scale yet my abs are disappearing so I know it's all fat. My parents are now involved in my recovery so I'm forced to eat more and not exercise whether I like it or not. I remember weighing more several months ago when I was consistently exercising so being forced to stop doesn't make sense; the muscle mass I had weighs more than stomach fat.

I know I'm not supposed to be analyzing abs but I can't help it, and my past issues with body image are creeping up again. Obsessing over abs in an ED is so confusing to me...it seems so vain and selfish to be obsessed with them, yet in reality I'm extremely introverted and by no means a show-off. They're rarely seen by anybody but me, and if I was the only one who ever saw them it wouldn't change a thing. It's like I've built up so much self-identity in them that I can't let it go. There's an endless list of better things to live for but I've spent the last few nights feeling so distressed over this and I need to calm myself down.

AdamWW
02-24-2017, 08:11 AM
Been really struggling lately. After over a week of not being able to do deliberate cardio/lifting while on a 2800+ calorie diet, I'm getting a real layer of stomach flab like I used to have and it makes me so distressed. I've only gained 1 lb on the scale yet my abs are disappearing so I know it's all fat. My parents are now involved in my recovery so I'm forced to eat more and not exercise whether I like it or not. I remember weighing more several months ago when I was consistently exercising so being forced to stop doesn't make sense; the muscle mass I had weighs more than stomach fat.

I know I'm not supposed to be analyzing abs but I can't help it, and my past issues with body image are creeping up again. Obsessing over abs in an ED is so confusing to me...it seems so vain and selfish to be obsessed with them, yet in reality I'm extremely introverted and by no means a show-off. They're rarely seen by anybody but me, and if I was the only one who ever saw them it wouldn't change a thing. It's like I've built up so much self-identity in them that I can't let it go. There's an endless list of better things to live for but I've spent the last few nights feeling so distressed over this and I need to calm myself down.

That isn't fat. Your abs 'disappearing' has nothing to do with it being fat vs. water. There are days where I wake up with veiny abs and paper-thin skin and look shredded. Then other days where my water levels rise and I look puffy and my abs are blurry.

it's WATER...

But that's beside the point. You need to stop looking at your stomach. Stop weighing yourself. These are obviously triggers for your ED and restriction. If weighing yourself and registering slightly above yesterday or seeing your abs just even slightly blurry for ONE day because of water weight makes you this upset... what was the point in weighing yourself or looking? That's not self-love... that's self harm.

Start loving yourself and not torturing yourself. You don't deserve punishment, you deserve to feel good.

Bonnappe
02-24-2017, 09:04 AM
Are you physically satiated after eating, but experiencing mental cravings? Or is your body actually demanding more food and that's why you're constantly wanting it? I know you've mentioned "binge eating" before but I don't really know your background other than that, sorry. I'm trying to recover from anorexia/orthorexia and in my initial stages of recovery I thought I was a binge eater but your case could be entirely different.

For me, after every meal I agonize over whether or not I'm full (almost always feel the need for more) and start systematically planning out ways to satiate myself in as few calories as possible. I tend to drag it out and get a lot of anxiety over it, at this point I hardly enjoy food and it's something I've been struggling with lately. I tend to overthink everything, not just food and body image.
Well tbh my issue is kinda weird, it really doesn't matter if I eat only 1000 kcals a day or binge eat 10 000 kcals a day, I still feel physically the same afterwards and the day after, it's just more fun to binge eat. Don't really know how to explain it better

Grappa
02-24-2017, 09:47 AM
You can definitely eat.

What you mention does bring up an important issue for me, which is the urge to 'earn' my food. I have no energy today... I barely slept... but I know I need to eat. I will, but it makes it hard. Consuming 4000 calories when I barely walk 500 steps and do not lift just isn't normal for me.

Actually i am a terrible eater, i can FORCE myself to down around 4k, but after that i just make smart choiches, juices, junk food, pasta > potato, bread>potato fatty meat>lean meat, dried fruits etc. CANDY:D sugar, butter toffees etc.

AdamWW
02-24-2017, 09:51 AM
Well tbh my issue is kinda weird, it really doesn't matter if I eat only 1000 kcals a day or binge eat 10 000 kcals a day, I still feel physically the same afterwards and the day after, it's just more fun to binge eat. Don't really know how to explain it better

Classic extreme hunger.

There is a mental AND physical component do it. The only fix is to honor/respond to the hunger by eating until you are satisfied. Not in-pain from being stuffed, but satisfied.

You are conditioning your mind to feel comfortable that food is not scarce and there is no restriction, but you're also giving your body fuel back that it's been deprived from.

Imagine if you stayed awake for 2 weeks straight. You'd probably feel tired if you slept for 1 hour or 10, because you've accumulated so much sleep deprivation that you need to get back.

For the record, many night when I eat dinner I am not all that hungry going into the meal. Then I eat a huge portion of food, and I'm twice as hungry as before I ate. It doesn't seem to make sense, but your body is telling you something.

sonnydfrizzy
02-24-2017, 10:19 AM
You can definitely eat.

What you mention does bring up an important issue for me, which is the urge to 'earn' my food. I have no energy today... I barely slept... but I know I need to eat. I will, but it makes it hard. Consuming 4000 calories when I barely walk 500 steps and do not lift just isn't normal for me.

You're still seeing exercise and food on the same continuum. In your case, they are completely different entities.

Bonnappe
02-24-2017, 10:29 AM
Classic extreme hunger.

There is a mental AND physical component do it. The only fix is to honor/respond to the hunger by eating until you are satisfied. Not in-pain from being stuffed, but satisfied.

You are conditioning your mind to feel comfortable that food is not scarce and there is no restriction, but you're also giving your body fuel back that it's been deprived from.

Imagine if you stayed awake for 2 weeks straight. You'd probably feel tired if you slept for 1 hour or 10, because you've accumulated so much sleep deprivation that you need to get back.

For the record, many night when I eat dinner I am not all that hungry going into the meal. Then I eat a huge portion of food, and I'm twice as hungry as before I ate. It doesn't seem to make sense, but your body is telling you something.
Oh don't get me wrong, I can't remember the last time I actually got hungry (maybe my ED playing tricks with hunger cues, but seriously can't remember the last time I felt hungry, physically or mentally)
I feel satisfied after eating only 1000 kcals in a day, I feel satisfied after eating 10 000 kcals in a day. I just don't seem to get hungry anymore which is odd so I don't think this is related to extreme hunger?

Basically I just like eating huge amounts of junk food in one sitting and somehow somedays feel the need to do so which I obviously then justify by eating lower calories the day after which doesn't feel bad to me either as I do not feel hungry at all (again maybe my head playing tricks, not sure)

Grappa
02-24-2017, 11:33 AM
You can definitely eat.

What you mention does bring up an important issue for me, which is the urge to 'earn' my food. I have no energy today... I barely slept... but I know I need to eat. I will, but it makes it hard. Consuming 4000 calories when I barely walk 500 steps and do not lift just isn't normal for me.

Try to change your mindset this way: rest day = recovery/growth day. Also carb up day. I f i am right u do full body 3x right? If yes, you have to prepare your body for that.

AdamWW
02-24-2017, 01:34 PM
You're still seeing exercise and food on the same continuum. In your case, they are completely different entities.

Oh I know, I was just sharing my realization. I actually think they should be separate for everyone.

Exercise should be for fitness and endurance and performance.

Diet should be fuel and general wellness and enjoyment.

Both should make you feel good.

AdamWW
02-24-2017, 01:35 PM
Try to change your mindset this way: rest day = recovery/growth day. Also carb up day. I f i am right u do full body 3x right? If yes, you have to prepare your body for that.

Yeah I'm doing full body 3 times a week.

Today has been going well. I lifted before lunch and am feeling great.

Not tracking, just fueling.

No idea how many calories. Just know it's a lot.

AdamWW
02-24-2017, 02:15 PM
Oh don't get me wrong, I can't remember the last time I actually got hungry (maybe my ED playing tricks with hunger cues, but seriously can't remember the last time I felt hungry, physically or mentally)
I feel satisfied after eating only 1000 kcals in a day, I feel satisfied after eating 10 000 kcals in a day. I just don't seem to get hungry anymore which is odd so I don't think this is related to extreme hunger?

Basically I just like eating huge amounts of junk food in one sitting and somehow somedays feel the need to do so which I obviously then justify by eating lower calories the day after which doesn't feel bad to me either as I do not feel hungry at all (again maybe my head playing tricks, not sure)

You enjoy eating large amounts of junk food but you're not hungry? Where does the desire come from if not some form of hunger?

sonnydfrizzy
02-24-2017, 09:31 PM
One of my biggest pet peeves:

"When you put on weight and lose your leanness, it is just water and glycogen. Do not worry, for you are not gaining fat! It is all mind games."

This is perpetuating the wrong mindset. Telling someone who has restricted their intake so severely for so long that they are far leaner than physiologically (and psychologically) health that they are not gaining fat, it is all in their head, do not stress, etc is WRONG.

It still frames the mindset that fat = bad and you won't be gaining fat when recovering. Fat gain in recovery is healthy and should be celebrated!

THE SOONER you can embrace gaining weight and fat as a GOOD thing, the faster you can recover. Going from fearing fat to embracing and accepting weight and fat gain and recognizing you need more fat to be healthy enables you to expedite the recovery process.

So sure, if you gained weight and look less lean, you probably gained fat.

Did your family disown you? Did your body shut down? Did your friends like you less? Fat =/= your identity. Get healthy. Stop procrastinating recovery. And TAKE ACTION.

Plus, learn to challenge yourself and recondition your mind to enjoy the process of eating new foods, eating more foods, and resting more often. It is amazing what your body is telling you if you listen.

**this rant comes to you from an email I sent to someone who reached out to me.**

Grappa
02-25-2017, 02:59 AM
One of my biggest pet peeves:

"When you put on weight and lose your leanness, it is just water and glycogen. Do not worry, for you are not gaining fat! It is all mind games."

This is perpetuating the wrong mindset. Telling someone who has restricted their intake so severely for so long that they are far leaner than physiologically (and psychologically) health that they are not gaining fat, it is all in their head, do not stress, etc is WRONG.

It still frames the mindset that fat = bad and you won't be gaining fat when recovering. Fat gain in recovery is healthy and should be celebrated!

THE SOONER you can embrace gaining weight and fat as a GOOD thing, the faster you can recover. Going from fearing fat to embracing and accepting weight and fat gain and recognizing you need more fat to be healthy enables you to expedite the recovery process.

So sure, if you gained weight and look less lean, you probably gained fat.

Did your family disown you? Did your body shut down? Did your friends like you less? Fat =/= your identity. Get healthy. Stop procrastinating recovery. And TAKE ACTION.

Plus, learn to challenge yourself and recondition your mind to enjoy the process of eating new foods, eating more foods, and resting more often. It is amazing what your body is telling you if you listen.

**this rant comes to you from an email I sent to someone who reached out to me.**

This water retention thing depends on your starting point. When i started my refeeding, i was malnourished, really really slimmed down, i was skin and bones. The first week i have gained 10kg, i held a fkton of water, i was even unable to twist my ankle without pain, i could bareley walk. And after the 2-3 weeks, i have pissed for almost 3 days straight and i have dropped 8kg down. As how your "cuts" dissapear i can not say anything informative, cuz i had almost 0 muscle mass when i was at my worst so i just evened out. (ribcage started to dissapear, my face evened out etc). But i can agree with that you will and HAVE to gain fat to recover. Fat is something what acts on you as a living hormonal system. Regulates your hunger, increases your testosterone etc.

Bonnappe
02-25-2017, 03:40 AM
You enjoy eating large amounts of junk food but you're not hungry? Where does the desire come from if not some form of hunger?
Exactly, I just enjoy it. Where does the desire to play video games come from? Some people enjoy it, that's how I feel about my binges

Kaged Muscle
02-25-2017, 07:05 AM
Hey Kris. Check this out:

http://mengetedstoo.co.uk/about-us/about-the-charity

This is great, exactly what I was looking for. I cannot purely relate you guys but I'll do my best to raise some more awareness to those searching for help and someone to talk to.

AdamWW
02-25-2017, 08:52 AM
This is great, exactly what I was looking for. I cannot purely relate you guys but I'll do my best to raise some more awareness to those searching for help and someone to talk to.

Many thanks Kris.

AdamWW
02-25-2017, 08:54 AM
One of my biggest pet peeves:

"When you put on weight and lose your leanness, it is just water and glycogen. Do not worry, for you are not gaining fat! It is all mind games."

This is perpetuating the wrong mindset. Telling someone who has restricted their intake so severely for so long that they are far leaner than physiologically (and psychologically) health that they are not gaining fat, it is all in their head, do not stress, etc is WRONG.

It still frames the mindset that fat = bad and you won't be gaining fat when recovering. Fat gain in recovery is healthy and should be celebrated!

THE SOONER you can embrace gaining weight and fat as a GOOD thing, the faster you can recover. Going from fearing fat to embracing and accepting weight and fat gain and recognizing you need more fat to be healthy enables you to expedite the recovery process.

So sure, if you gained weight and look less lean, you probably gained fat.

Did your family disown you? Did your body shut down? Did your friends like you less? Fat =/= your identity. Get healthy. Stop procrastinating recovery. And TAKE ACTION.

Plus, learn to challenge yourself and recondition your mind to enjoy the process of eating new foods, eating more foods, and resting more often. It is amazing what your body is telling you if you listen.

**this rant comes to you from an email I sent to someone who reached out to me.**

I'm definitely guilty of telling people that 'it's just water' when they ask for feedback about short term weight gain or immediate losses in definition. In those situations, it truly IS just water weight gain, but that might not be the best approach.

A better reaction is probably, "if it IS fat, you should celebrate it", as opposed to comforting with the thought of it just being water.

AdamWW
02-25-2017, 09:11 AM
This water retention thing depends on your starting point. When i started my refeeding, i was malnourished, really really slimmed down, i was skin and bones. The first week i have gained 10kg, i held a fkton of water, i was even unable to twist my ankle without pain, i could bareley walk. And after the 2-3 weeks, i have pissed for almost 3 days straight and i have dropped 8kg down. As how your "cuts" dissapear i can not say anything informative, cuz i had almost 0 muscle mass when i was at my worst so i just evened out. (ribcage started to dissapear, my face evened out etc). But i can agree with that you will and HAVE to gain fat to recover. Fat is something what acts on you as a living hormonal system. Regulates your hunger, increases your testosterone etc.

Due to my carb intake my weight and appearance change HUGELY on a daily basis, so I agree that it is true fluctuations - especially early in the refeeding/extreme hunger phases - during recovery can be extreme and due to almost entirely water weight.

But I do ALSO agree with what sonny is saying... it's less about surfacing the 'truth' of whether it's water or not. The point is, you shouldn't even be thinking about it at all - OR - if you are, then you should be HAPPY about the gain.

AdamWW
02-25-2017, 09:28 AM
Not to sidestep the existing responses but I wanted to share some positive vibes.

Last 2 days have been excellent for me in terms of long-term outlook, food thoughts, and body image thoughts.

I've been able to resist obsessing over weighing myself, have not been tracking a single calorie or macro, I've been honoring my hunger every chance I get, and have even been sleeping better as a result.

Today is not a training day, simply a 'get stuff done' day (some left-over work, chores, house hunting, that kind of thing) and recovery day. My goal is to not consider the fact that I am not training in making my food decisions, but rather focus purely on hunger and food as fuel to function in an optimal way.

Looking forward to a good, positive morning and afternoon!

MosToorani
02-25-2017, 10:17 AM
One of my biggest pet peeves:

"When you put on weight and lose your leanness, it is just water and glycogen. Do not worry, for you are not gaining fat! It is all mind games."

This is perpetuating the wrong mindset. Telling someone who has restricted their intake so severely for so long that they are far leaner than physiologically (and psychologically) health that they are not gaining fat, it is all in their head, do not stress, etc is WRONG.

It still frames the mindset that fat = bad and you won't be gaining fat when recovering. Fat gain in recovery is healthy and should be celebrated!

THE SOONER you can embrace gaining weight and fat as a GOOD thing, the faster you can recover. Going from fearing fat to embracing and accepting weight and fat gain and recognizing you need more fat to be healthy enables you to expedite the recovery process.

So sure, if you gained weight and look less lean, you probably gained fat.

Did your family disown you? Did your body shut down? Did your friends like you less? Fat =/= your identity. Get healthy. Stop procrastinating recovery. And TAKE ACTION.

Plus, learn to challenge yourself and recondition your mind to enjoy the process of eating new foods, eating more foods, and resting more often. It is amazing what your body is telling you if you listen.

**this rant comes to you from an email I sent to someone who reached out to me.**


Loved this .. I need to engrave this in my mind ..

Once again, loved it!

MosToorani
02-25-2017, 10:22 AM
I need help with the following, if you could.

So as i've mentioned earlier in this thread .. i do 3x a week full body .. and probably get 10k steps a day (disc hernia post operation recovery).

and, honestly, I'm afraid of eating more than 2.1k a day (rest and workout day) ..

My question is .. is it a "normal figure" to eat 2.1k and gain weight? I don't know how to make my question clearer .. Basically, does it make sense that with the amount i'm eating i should EXPECT to gain 1-2 lbs a month? or is my body/hormones so fuarked up that it doesn't make sense for a 28 year old, 176 cm male ADULT to eat ONLY that amount of cals?

Maybe I'm just jealous of people eating more? Or maybe I'm just overestimating how much i SHOULD be eating?

Should I just face the reality that 2.1k is sufficient and move on?

MT

AdamWW
02-25-2017, 10:32 AM
I need help with the following, if you could.

So as i've mentioned earlier in this thread .. i do 3x a week full body .. and probably get 10k steps a day (disc hernia post operation recovery).

and, honestly, I'm afraid of eating more than 2.1k a day (rest and workout day) ..

My question is .. is it a "normal figure" to eat 2.1k and gain weight? I don't know how to make my question clearer .. Basically, does it make sense that with the amount i'm eating i should EXPECT to gain 1-2 lbs a month? or is my body/hormones so fuarked up that it doesn't make sense for a 28 year old, 176 cm male ADULT to eat ONLY that amount of cals?

Maybe I'm just jealous of people eating more? Or maybe I'm just overestimating how much i SHOULD be eating?

Should I just face the reality that 2.1k is sufficient and move on?

MT

You're thinking of the entire process from the wrong point of view.

Dissecting every last calorie and trying 'hit a mark' instead of listening to your body's needs for fuel is not recovering, it's still disordered thinking.

The idea of recovery is to fuel yourself based on energy needs as reflected in gym performance, sense of well-being, mental focus, etc., not on an arbitrary number that is impossible to predict.

Some days you'll be SUPER HUNGRY and you'll need way more fuel, some days maybe you'll need less. Who knows?

I strongly suggest you stop calculating... stop weighing yourself.. stop putting a 'rate of gain' as your goal. The important thing is how you FEEL... if you're eating in a way where you feel GOOD, HAPPY, FREE, ENERGETIC, STRONG, then you're doing it right.

If you're hungry, eat. It's as simple as that. If you're feeling sluggish or low on energy, try eating. see if it improves it. Just eat until you feel like, "hmmm, I think I'm done eating.. i'm satisfied now". Then just stop eating until you feel like eating again.

It's really that simple, even if it seems more complicated.

I mean, hell, what if I asked you what the ideal number of breaths was to take in a day? Would you try to calculate the optimal amount? Probably not, you'd probably tell me that I need to breathe when I need air. How about water? Would you have a specific amount of water you'd tell me to drink? Probably not, right? Same goes for food. It's a biological need... if you feel like you need it, eat it.

MosToorani
02-25-2017, 10:48 AM
You're thinking of the entire process from the wrong point of view.

Dissecting every last calorie and trying 'hit a mark' instead of listening to your body's needs for fuel is not recovering, it's still disordered thinking.

The idea of recovery is to fuel yourself based on energy needs as reflected in gym performance, sense of well-being, mental focus, etc., not on an arbitrary number that is impossible to predict.

Some days you'll be SUPER HUNGRY and you'll need way more fuel, some days maybe you'll need less. Who knows?

I strongly suggest you stop calculating... stop weighing yourself.. stop putting a 'rate of gain' as your goal. The important thing is how you FEEL... if you're eating in a way where you feel GOOD, HAPPY, FREE, ENERGETIC, STRONG, then you're doing it right.

If you're hungry, eat. It's as simple as that. If you're feeling sluggish or low on energy, try eating. see if it improves it. Just eat until you feel like, "hmmm, I think I'm done eating.. i'm satisfied now". Then just stop eating until you feel like eating again.

It's really that simple, even if it seems more complicated.

I mean, hell, what if I asked you what the ideal number of breaths was to take in a day? Would you try to calculate the optimal amount? Probably not, you'd probably tell me that I need to breathe when I need air. How about water? Would you have a specific amount of water you'd tell me to drink? Probably not, right? Same goes for food. It's a biological need... if you feel like you need it, eat it.

Wow .. yes .. so true ..

its the fear of weight gain .. i know it is .. but it's so difficult to just accept that weight gain is fine .. i always have the fear that the weight gain is mainly fat and not muscle .. but as Sonny said earlier ... I should celebrate it ..

man, this is so fuarkin difficult ..

I'll try to go to bed now.. goodnight lads ..

AdamWW
02-25-2017, 11:04 AM
Wow .. yes .. so true ..

its the fear of weight gain .. i know it is .. but it's so difficult to just accept that weight gain is fine .. i always have the fear that the weight gain is mainly fat and not muscle .. but as Sonny said earlier ... I should celebrate it ..

man, this is so fuarkin difficult ..

I'll try to go to bed now.. goodnight lads ..

Almost nothing worth doing is easy :)

I am right there with you, believe me.

I am actually considering chronically my experience with videos in the event it helps others, but I am a bit hesitant to do so because i'm a tad camera shy.

Still, might make for a good tool for others.

Grappa
02-25-2017, 12:19 PM
I need help with the following, if you could.

So as i've mentioned earlier in this thread .. i do 3x a week full body .. and probably get 10k steps a day (disc hernia post operation recovery).

and, honestly, I'm afraid of eating more than 2.1k a day (rest and workout day) ..

My question is .. is it a "normal figure" to eat 2.1k and gain weight? I don't know how to make my question clearer .. Basically, does it make sense that with the amount i'm eating i should EXPECT to gain 1-2 lbs a month? or is my body/hormones so fuarked up that it doesn't make sense for a 28 year old, 176 cm male ADULT to eat ONLY that amount of cals?

Maybe I'm just jealous of people eating more? Or maybe I'm just overestimating how much i SHOULD be eating?

Should I just face the reality that 2.1k is sufficient and move on?

MT

Keep in mind sedentary men should eat more than that. Depending on your height/weight/activity level. This amout is nowhere near what should eating. 10k steps a day is a lot i HAVE to walk that amount a day, cuz i can not avoid walking. I know from fact it is a lot.

Strength93
02-25-2017, 12:51 PM
I didnít notice that a new thread had been created so Iím just catching up on it. One thing we can do to not clog the thread is to write @(insert username) instead of quoting each othersí (often very long) posts. It was something that determined4000 (may he rest in peace) suggested in the previous Eating Disorder Support Thread.

AdamWW
02-25-2017, 03:27 PM
^^^Good idea.

clk99
02-25-2017, 06:27 PM
That isn't fat. Your abs 'disappearing' has nothing to do with it being fat vs. water. There are days where I wake up with veiny abs and paper-thin skin and look shredded. Then other days where my water levels rise and I look puffy and my abs are blurry.

it's WATER...

But that's beside the point. You need to stop looking at your stomach. Stop weighing yourself. These are obviously triggers for your ED and restriction. If weighing yourself and registering slightly above yesterday or seeing your abs just even slightly blurry for ONE day because of water weight makes you this upset... what was the point in weighing yourself or looking? That's not self-love... that's self harm.

Start loving yourself and not torturing yourself. You don't deserve punishment, you deserve to feel good.

After giving it some time you were right, it was just water retention and my skin is somewhat back to normal. How exactly are you able to tell (by pinching) the difference though? I know I shouldn't bodycheck anymore...for awhile I was doing great but sometimes I just have bad days. Bodychecking is the real trigger now, I don't think the scale has much influence on me nowadays if any. If I don't get to a certain weight my parents will be upset with me (and already are) so it's inevitable.

You're 100% right though, and thanks. I've been struggling with some separate issues too so those combined with eating+body image have been affecting my happiness and general well-being a LOT lately and I need to work on finding balance in my life, especially with relationships and hobbies. Been making some improvement since last time I posted here though so that's something.

clk99
02-25-2017, 06:35 PM
Exactly, I just enjoy it. Where does the desire to play video games come from? Some people enjoy it, that's how I feel about my binges

It's completely okay to enjoy food. It should be naturally enjoyed and many people here have struggled or currently struggle with grasping that concept.

The issue in your case is moderation. Staying up all night playing video games is damaging to your health and is a case of not exercising moderation in your enjoyment. Same goes for eating 1,000 or 10,000 calories a day.

clk99
02-25-2017, 06:45 PM
Been focusing/thinking about food much less than normal over the past few days which is a great mental improvement for me since I tend to agonize over food so much. Almost feel like I'm growing uninterested in food, although now I'm made to eat three distinct meals a day which is new for me. By uninterested I mean I'm not thinking about food in my free time, not thinking about what I ate or what I'm going to eat and how it relates to my activity levels, etc. Only thinking about food when it's set in front of me at a meal.

Problem is, my intake has easily been lower lately than what it usually was...meaning I'm probably losing whatever I've gained so far. I don't like to check my weight so often I'm obsessed with it but I will on Monday to see my progress.

MosToorani
02-25-2017, 08:20 PM
After reading the struggles that people are going through in this forum, i've decided to list down the issues that i believe i'm facing and i hope you guys can chime in into how i could start to "fix" it.

1) satiety .. i can eat a lot .. no joke .. i've done a few eating competitions in the past and i can easily eat a lot of food.. i fill myself up with protein fluff, 1 kg of lettuce, 1 kg of carrots every night just to feel 'satisfied'. i hate going to bed hungry.

2) my craving/love for candy, ice cream and cereal. These are obviously high in calories and would provide with the least amount of satiety .. hence why i dwell on the amount of calories i eat in a day .. Of course, if i ate more 'calories' then i'd have an easier pathway to satiety.

3) weight gain that does not correlate with strength gains .. it depresses me if i gain weight but not strength in the gym.. especially on the compound lifts.

4) i think about food all the time .. literally .. from morning til i sleep.. i dwell over what 'nice, delicious' treats i can eat and still manage to eat veggies/fruits to help me feel 'full'.

5) everytime i try to move away from micromanaging my intake .. i end up under eating because of this little arse of a voice in my head that tells me "don't eat this, it's high in calories and you'll probably surpass your daily intake... you'll gain unnecessary weight without any strength gains"

so yeah .. it's early in the morning .. i'm at work .. and i'm thinking about food and what to eat today.. what 'treat' to have today..

basically, the above is just a few things that popped in my head .. main issue is satiety i guess?

Can you guys help? We don't have professionals here unfortunately. 3rd world issues..

cheers!

MT

MosToorani
02-25-2017, 08:49 PM
@Grappa

Thank you for the reply .. I'd love to eat more but this worry of gaining weight which does not correlate with strength/muscle worries me unbelievably.. I've always been under the assumption that the best weight gain per month is ~ 1kg/2.2 lbs..

Grappa
02-26-2017, 03:04 AM
After reading the struggles that people are going through in this forum, i've decided to list down the issues that i believe i'm facing and i hope you guys can chime in into how i could start to "fix" it.

1) satiety .. i can eat a lot .. no joke .. i've done a few eating competitions in the past and i can easily eat a lot of food.. i fill myself up with protein fluff, 1 kg of lettuce, 1 kg of carrots every night just to feel 'satisfied'. i hate going to bed hungry.

2) my craving/love for candy, ice cream and cereal. These are obviously high in calories and would provide with the least amount of satiety .. hence why i dwell on the amount of calories i eat in a day .. Of course, if i ate more 'calories' then i'd have an easier pathway to satiety.

3) weight gain that does not correlate with strength gains .. it depresses me if i gain weight but not strength in the gym.. especially on the compound lifts.

4) i think about food all the time .. literally .. from morning til i sleep.. i dwell over what 'nice, delicious' treats i can eat and still manage to eat veggies/fruits to help me feel 'full'.

5) everytime i try to move away from micromanaging my intake .. i end up under eating because of this little arse of a voice in my head that tells me "don't eat this, it's high in calories and you'll probably surpass your daily intake... you'll gain unnecessary weight without any strength gains"

so yeah .. it's early in the morning .. i'm at work .. and i'm thinking about food and what to eat today.. what 'treat' to have today..

basically, the above is just a few things that popped in my head .. main issue is satiety i guess?

Can you guys help? We don't have professionals here unfortunately. 3rd world issues..

cheers!

MT

Once you start eating more, you will gain strength. Trust me. :) Also sonny land me a pm, i have some questions about lifting cuz i think we are doing the same upper/lower stuff

MosToorani
02-26-2017, 03:15 AM
Once you start eating more, you will gain strength. Trust me. :) Also sonny land me a pm, i have some questions about lifting cuz i think we are doing the same upper/lower stuff

I'm also interested in your lifting split .. May you share it please?

MT

Grappa
02-26-2017, 05:21 AM
I'm also interested in your lifting split .. May you share it please?

MT

Yes i can, but keep in mind, i am new to lifting, so i have no idea if it is optimal or not. A little background: all my life i was thin, but when i have started martial arts i have gained a kinda respectful size, i was strong, muscular agile, felxible etc. When i have done martial arts i used to do a lots of gpp, a fkton. Waiter's walk, farmer's walk, bear hugs etc. I used to train in high volume. Also you have to know what is your weakness, and what is your strongness. Kenpo is similar to mma, you can fight while you stand, and on the ground. Genetically wider guys better at ground fights, those who have long arms/legs are better at standing fights, cuz u can keep a good distance, but once you are at the ground you are fked. Cuz of this my back was strong, my core also, and especially my legs. I had to have a really solid balance in order to not get into situations where i have to fight on the ground. Cuz of this, and i can really feel, my legs are strong, my back also, but my chest/shoulder.... is a mess. I do an upper/lower split. 2 days i go heavy as fk, 3 days i go high volume, i drop the weights and increase the reps. The core of my workouts focuses on compounds, and i rareley isolate. Only thing i isolate is my shoulders. I do the following on workouts: power days: get in, max out get home. Volume days: get in blast myself with volume and get home. I rotate some lifts, for example rack pulls, pendlay rows, and benching. My shoulders/chest needs more frequency, that is why i do upper body 3 times a week. BUt i can feel my past, my legs and my back is strong, but my chest and shoulder is srsly lagging. For example, i can deadlift 180kg for 1 rep, i can squat 140 kg for reps, i can do chin ups with a 25 kg plate on me, but i am unable to fking to more on ohp than 40 kg.... Also on my power days i throw in some gpp, etc. You should know your limits and lift that way. For example i rareley do reps for failure, almost never. I know i have 1-2 more reps left in my tank, but i do not want to drain the fk out from myself.

AdamWW
02-26-2017, 09:03 AM
I'm also interested in your lifting split .. May you share it please?

MT

I would recommend minimalist training (low volume, higher frequency) for people who are recovering from ED's especially if you're at a low weight. If you're new to training, even better.

You'll get the best results hitting everything every other day.

MosToorani
02-26-2017, 09:40 AM
I would recommend minimalist training (low volume, higher frequency) for people who are recovering from ED's especially if you're at a low weight. If you're new to training, even better.

You'll get the best results hitting everything every other day.

Hence full body 3x a week is good?

AdamWW
02-26-2017, 10:01 AM
Hence full body 3x a week is good?

full body 3x per week is basically the proven ideal for 99% of people who have less than one year of good, consistent training under their belt and (if you're a male) have yet to reach the following (approximately):

225 bench press
315 squat
405 deadlift
135 overhead press

This is especially true if you are underweight or restricting, because it will optimize the amount of time between sessions for your body to heal, unlike training 5 days a week with little/no breaks.

That being said, it is also possible to make very good progress with an upper/lower or push/pull routine wherein every musclegroup gets hit 2x per week. Something like this:

Monday: PUSH (Squats, Bench, Delts, Accessories)
Tuesday: PULL (Deadlifts, Rows, Chins, Accesories)
Wednesday: OFF
Thursday: Same as Monday
Friday: Same as Tuesday
Sat - Sun: OFF

OR...

Monday: UPPER
Tuesday: LOWER
Wednesday: OFF
Thursday: Same as Monday
Friday: Same as Tuesday
Sat - Sun: OFF

The idea is to focus only on getting stronger week/week or session/session.

MosToorani
02-26-2017, 10:14 AM
full body 3x per week is basically the proven ideal for 99% of people who have less than one year of good, consistent training under their belt and (if you're a male) have yet to reach the following (approximately):

225 bench press
315 squat
405 deadlift
135 overhead press

This is especially true if you are underweight or restricting, because it will optimize the amount of time between sessions for your body to heal, unlike training 5 days a week with little/no breaks.

That being said, it is also possible to make very good progress with an upper/lower or push/pull routine wherein every musclegroup gets hit 2x per week. Something like this:

Monday: PUSH (Squats, Bench, Delts, Accessories)
Tuesday: PULL (Deadlifts, Rows, Chins, Accesories)
Wednesday: OFF
Thursday: Same as Monday
Friday: Same as Tuesday
Sat - Sun: OFF

OR...

Monday: UPPER
Tuesday: LOWER
Wednesday: OFF
Thursday: Same as Monday
Friday: Same as Tuesday
Sat - Sun: OFF

The idea is to focus only on getting stronger week/week or session/session.

Well said .. I stopped lifting for more than a year due to my herniated disc .. got an operation done then recovery etc ..

So when I got back to 3x full body routine per week, i got stronger.. couldn't bench with weights but now i bench 94 lbs .. in about 8 months? feel like i was spinning my wheel due to fear of gaining weight ..

deadlift improved as well .. from 90 lbs to 215 lbs .. I stopped squatting though .. fear of another injury .. would rather not risk it..

oh well .. i'll be going on a short break at the end of the week and i hope i come back with a clearer mind and take this bulk seriously...

AdamWW
02-26-2017, 10:51 AM
Eric has some very good insight on BED:

2xzcI-UsxFA

Grappa
02-26-2017, 10:52 AM
full body 3x per week is basically the proven ideal for 99% of people who have less than one year of good, consistent training under their belt and (if you're a male) have yet to reach the following (approximately):

225 bench press
315 squat
405 deadlift
135 overhead press

This is especially true if you are underweight or restricting, because it will optimize the amount of time between sessions for your body to heal, unlike training 5 days a week with little/no breaks.

That being said, it is also possible to make very good progress with an upper/lower or push/pull routine wherein every musclegroup gets hit 2x per week. Something like this:

Monday: PUSH (Squats, Bench, Delts, Accessories)
Tuesday: PULL (Deadlifts, Rows, Chins, Accesories)
Wednesday: OFF
Thursday: Same as Monday
Friday: Same as Tuesday
Sat - Sun: OFF

OR...

Monday: UPPER
Tuesday: LOWER
Wednesday: OFF
Thursday: Same as Monday
Friday: Same as Tuesday
Sat - Sun: OFF

The idea is to focus only on getting stronger week/week or session/session.

Holy fk i almost got the dl+ squat number o_O

AdamWW
02-26-2017, 11:03 AM
Holy fk i almost got the dl+ squat number o_O

I miss those days.

I can get back there though... I've done it before in only 3-4 months when I bulked

I got to:

Bench: 245 x 1
Deadlift: 405 x1
Squat: 275 x 1

My squat has always been my weekness :(

I had to reach 173lb before I could do it though... so hopefully if I gain about 35-40lbs i'll be able again!

Strength93
02-26-2017, 12:47 PM
@MosToorani

Wow nr. 1,2,3,4 and 5 is the excact same things I struggle with!

sonnydfrizzy
02-26-2017, 07:36 PM
Once you start eating more, you will gain strength. Trust me. :) Also sonny land me a pm, i have some questions about lifting cuz i think we are doing the same upper/lower stuff

Shoot me a PM man!

MosToorani
02-26-2017, 08:28 PM
@MosToorani

Wow nr. 1,2,3,4 and 5 is the excact same things I struggle with!

I know how you feel then ..

I know the issues that i'm facing but I don't know how to face/solve them ..

Can anyone here help?

AdamWW
02-26-2017, 08:34 PM
Happy to report that every main lift improved in the gym today.

The last couple days have been 100% by the book: no restriction, eating in accordance with cravings and energy needs (whether it be physical or mental cravings/hunger). And today, for the first time in a long time, I felt strong in the gym... looked forward to each lift.

Feeling good.

MosToorani
02-26-2017, 09:05 PM
Happy to report that every main lift improved in the gym today.

The last couple days have been 100% by the book: no restriction, eating in accordance with cravings and energy needs (whether it be physical or mental cravings/hunger). And today, for the first time in a long time, I felt strong in the gym... looked forward to each lift.

Feeling good.

That's excellent! So happy to hear that man!

May it continue forever!

partydave
02-26-2017, 10:12 PM
I can't seem to get my emotions around higher intake. I forced myself to eat at 2500-3500 calories over the weekend but I felt disappointed in myself when I thought about my intake

MosToorani
02-26-2017, 10:25 PM
I can't seem to get my emotions around higher intake. I forced myself to eat at 2500-3500 calories over the weekend but I felt disappointed in myself when I thought about my intake

What made you feel disappointed?

MT

AdamWW
02-26-2017, 10:39 PM
I can't seem to get my emotions around higher intake. I forced myself to eat at 2500-3500 calories over the weekend but I felt disappointed in myself when I thought about my intake

But how did your body feel? Energized? Satisfied?

The next time you start reflecting on numbers, ask yourself out loud, "how does my body feel".
Use that to replace thoughts of "how do I feel ABOUT my body". You're in a place wherein your mind is completely misreading the situation... you gotta fight back at it and tell it to fuk off :)

Guess what? I'm going to bed tonight full... which means tonight I won't feel all cold and weak like usual. Regardless of what my brain thinks about my body, my body feels great!

MosToorani
02-26-2017, 10:52 PM
But how did your body feel? Energized? Satisfied?

The next time you start reflecting on numbers, ask yourself out loud, "how does my body feel".
Use that to replace thoughts of "how do I feel ABOUT my body". You're in a place wherein your mind is completely misreading the situation... you gotta fight back at it and tell it to fuk off :)

Guess what? I'm going to bed tonight full... which means tonight I won't feel all cold and weak like usual. Regardless of what my brain thinks about my body, my body feels great!

Once again, I've got to give it to you mate.. Hats off!

I'm hoping to be in that state one day ..

AdamWW
02-26-2017, 11:03 PM
Once again, I've got to give it to you mate.. Hats off!

I'm hoping to be in that state one day ..

How about tomorrow? Gotta start somewhere :)

I'm still just starting out myself!

partydave
02-26-2017, 11:13 PM
To be honest, I felt bloated and disgusted. I kept checking the mirror and could swear I've immediately got an additional layer of fat around my belly.

I lifted better this morning than last week, but I keep telling myself that I'm just getting fat again

MosToorani
02-26-2017, 11:29 PM
How about tomorrow? Gotta start somewhere :)

I'm still just starting out myself!

I'm desperate for that state of mind ..

I actually believe that I'm depressed and have zero motivation in hitting the gym.. I don't know how to convince myself to go to the gym and lift weights to be honest.. I don't know what's leading to this, whether it's the eating disorder or that I'm just depressed because of life in general.

Bonnappe
02-27-2017, 02:56 AM
It's completely okay to enjoy food. It should be naturally enjoyed and many people here have struggled or currently struggle with grasping that concept.

The issue in your case is moderation. Staying up all night playing video games is damaging to your health and is a case of not exercising moderation in your enjoyment. Same goes for eating 1,000 or 10,000 calories a day.
Exactly but I know myself, I can't enjoy things in moderation, if I just eat bag of chocolate or a few bowls of cereal I just get sad, I just always want to go balls to wall for an unknown reason.

Binged again last night, my binge started around 1AM and ended up around 8AM with me pretty much zombie like standing in the kitchen just eating chocolate and candy, so tired and emotionless and just eating without enjoying at all at the end, felt horrible

AdamWW
02-27-2017, 08:35 AM
I'm desperate for that state of mind ..

I actually believe that I'm depressed and have zero motivation in hitting the gym.. I don't know how to convince myself to go to the gym and lift weights to be honest.. I don't know what's leading to this, whether it's the eating disorder or that I'm just depressed because of life in general.

How is your social life? Do you have some high-level life goals?

MosToorani
02-27-2017, 09:42 AM
How is your social life? Do you have some high-level life goals?


Social life is almost nonexistent because my friends go out at night .. which means they'll end up drinking and have dinner quite late .. I don't drink and i usually eat dinner between 6-7 pm ... so yeah .. it seems like almost zero social life ..

High level goals .. for sure .. just got a promotion at work haha

AdamWW
02-27-2017, 10:44 AM
Social life is almost nonexistent because my friends go out at night .. which means they'll end up drinking and have dinner quite late .. I don't drink and i usually eat dinner between 6-7 pm ... so yeah .. it seems like almost zero social life ..

High level goals .. for sure .. just got a promotion at work haha

Do you not have a good time going out if other people drink? I have a hard time with that also, so I understand. However, are there no other times, say, during the weekend when you can hang with friends in an environment where they're NOT drinking?

As far as your dinner time goes, what is the reason for making it a strict 6-7pm? Is that just during the week? If there's any room to incorporate more flexibility so you can get more time with friends, I'd say go for it. Otherwise, how is it you make/maintain friendships if they just go out drinking? How did you meet them or establish those connections?

Congrats on the promotion though!! Having goals for work and things other than food obsession is great.

Grappa
02-27-2017, 12:00 PM
Social life is almost nonexistent because my friends go out at night .. which means they'll end up drinking and have dinner quite late .. I don't drink and i usually eat dinner between 6-7 pm ... so yeah .. it seems like almost zero social life ..

High level goals .. for sure .. just got a promotion at work haha

Why do not like drinking? There is nothing bad if u drink1-2 or if u even get hammered. For my example, alcohol is my trigger " food ". During my worst this is how my day looked like: I starved myselft to feel the "hunger high" i combinated that with 2 bottles of wine + a fkloads of xanax. I have done this for 4 months straight. But sometimes i can go out and get a hard night with my friends without any problems, or any relapses.

AdamWW
02-27-2017, 01:30 PM
Why do not like drinking? There is nothing bad if u drink1-2 or if u even get hammered. For my example, alcohol is my trigger " food ". During my worst this is how my day looked like: I starved myselft to feel the "hunger high" i combinated that with 2 bottles of wine + a fkloads of xanax. I have done this for 4 months straight. But sometimes i can go out and get a hard night with my friends without any problems, or any relapses.

Do not do this.

My brother died this way.

Drinking a bit is fine, if you want. I personally don't drink almost ever now, mainly because of my reflux and I always 'feel it' the next day, even after 2 drinks.

Grappa
02-27-2017, 01:40 PM
Do not do this.

My brother died this way.

Drinking a bit is fine, if you want. I personally don't drink almost ever now, mainly because of my reflux and I always 'feel it' the next day, even after 2 drinks.

ofc you should not do this, but at that part of my life i did not care about my life at all. I just wanted to numb myself and escape from reality. But luckily it is the thing of the past. I still drink sometime, and yes sometimes i even get hammered, but that happens only whenone of my friend is having a bday party

Grappa
02-27-2017, 01:53 PM
^But also, this is cultuar. Here in europe we celebrate almost everything with alcohol. You can buy/drink alcohol, even strong ones at stupidly early age, mid highschool-senior year you constantly drink at fridays. It is really common. This is why i can tolerate alcohol really well, i only get hangover when i really go all in that night, but even after a bottle of wine i am not even drunk. On the other hand, what i have described, was my coping mechanism for stress, and i know it well this is not the way to solve stress, i can now manage stress luckily in another way. I had a really self destructive respond for all the crap what happened me back than. But god bless i was not get addicted to xanax, or even alcoholic.

AdamWW
02-27-2017, 04:44 PM
@grappa

True, Europe has a much more liberal drinking standard, and I don't see anything wrong with responsibly enjoying alcohol, but it's just not for me. I'd love to be able to drink a little here and there without feeling like crap, but I can't handle it anymore ;)

MosToorani
02-27-2017, 08:16 PM
@AdamWW

I used to drink (maybe 6-7 years ago) and that's how we became friends.. I just don't like the taste of alcohol, in fact, i probably hate it haha.

We do try to hang out during the weekend, a cup of coffee in the afternoon, but my friends are mostly owls haha... they go out during the night, start off at a lounge or bar and then dinner at around 11-12 PM.

The main reason why I have my dinner between 6-7 during the weekdays + weekend is because by that time, i'm extremely hungry (satiety issue). Additionally, I wake up at around 4:30 AM for work, hence I sleep early, at around 9 - 10 pm max (i actually pass out by that time haha).

It's just that my time schedule does not match with my friend's unfortunately. and my hunger just doesn't allow me to go past 7-8 pm without affecting my 'mood' haha. <<<< the term HANGRY applies to me here.

So yeah ... I'm going on a trip this weekend (tomorrow infact) with a few friends so that will hopefully help.

MT

@Grappa

nothing wrong with drinking man haha .. I just don't enjoy it at all. i get a gag reflex from it.

MT

AdamWW
02-27-2017, 09:21 PM
Never again will I eat brussels sprouts... just 4 with my dinner last night and I feel like im going to explode...

WTF... this is horrible.. I can't even stomach food without feeling uncomfortable the bloating is so intense.

MosToorani
02-27-2017, 09:28 PM
Never again will I eat brussels sprouts... just 4 with my dinner last night and I feel like im going to explode...

WTF... this is horrible.. I can't even stomach food without feeling uncomfortable the bloating is so intense.

haha!

I'm bloated all day, every day :) .. It doesn't bother me anymore! got used to it!

AdamWW
02-27-2017, 09:31 PM
haha!

I'm bloated all day, every day :) .. It doesn't bother me anymore! got used to it!

This would.. it's not like a 'oh i feel full' feeling... it's borderline painful... presses my gut out but also presses up on my diaphragm so I feel nauseous.

Ugh...

MosToorani
02-27-2017, 09:39 PM
This would.. it's not like a 'oh i feel full' feeling... it's borderline painful... presses my gut out but also presses up on my diaphragm so I feel nauseous.

Ugh...

oh ouch!

Imagine my situation then .. protein fluff, greek yoghurt, 400 grams of strawberry, 500 grams of carrots, puffed wheat, rice cakes, 400 grams of lettuce and ~300 grams of chicken, cereal, ice cream/chocolate, protein bar .. all consumed in one sitting just to feel full :)

AdamWW
02-27-2017, 09:41 PM
oh ouch!

Imagine my situation then .. protein fluff, greek yoghurt, 400 grams of strawberry, 500 grams of carrots, puffed wheat, rice cakes, 400 grams of lettuce and ~300 grams of chicken, cereal, ice cream/chocolate, protein bar .. all consumed in one sitting just to feel full :)

Wait, why are you eating just to feel full? Or do you mean that's how much it just happens to take?

Don't get me wrong my capacity is huge, but there's a difference between THIS kind of bloat and being full...

MosToorani
02-27-2017, 09:58 PM
Wait, why are you eating just to feel full? Or do you mean that's how much it just happens to take?

Don't get me wrong my capacity is huge, but there's a difference between THIS kind of bloat and being full...

Because of hunger .. That's how much I would need to eat to feel full/satisfied .. or else i'll remain hungry and i fear that would probably lead to a binge ..

speaking of binges .. I've been fighting the urge to binge for weeks now!

Nate118
02-28-2017, 01:03 AM
Just wanted to add: I remember when I used to struggle extreme hunger, urges to binge and obsessive thinking of food. I could have put down a HUGE amount of food. My stomach felt like a bottomless pit. But it's all the doings of your brain. It senses that there is not a lot of weight on your body and it signals accordingly.

I thought these feelings would never go away. I thought I would be stuck eating high volume foods forever. But I'm here to say that that's no longer the case for me. I'm feel very full nowadays. Food is often the last thing on my mind. And it is so liberating. But it doesn't come without weight gain.

MosToorani
02-28-2017, 01:32 AM
Just wanted to add: I remember when I used to struggle extreme hunger, urges to binge and obsessive thinking of food. I could have put down a HUGE amount of food. My stomach felt like a bottomless pit. But it's all the doings of your brain. It senses that there is not a lot of weight on your body and it signals accordingly.

I thought these feelings would never go away. I thought I would be stuck eating high volume foods forever. But I'm here to say that that's no longer the case for me. I'm feel very full nowadays. Food is often the last thing on my mind. And it is so liberating. But it doesn't come without weight gain.

That is exactly what i wanted to know. Whether weight gain will eventually help with satiety or not? I'm wondering whether its the low weight (currently 67 KG at a height of 175 cm) or stomach capacity that I'm struggling with?

MT

Nate118
02-28-2017, 01:58 AM
@MT

It's funny. I had convinced myself that I was extremely hungry because I had stretched my stomach. I now believe that this is nonsense. In my situation, weight gain helped with hunger.

Weight gain helps with satiety, especially fat gain. Fat cells signal to the hypothalamus of the brain. If you have too few fat cells, you will have lower levels of the hormone leptin. You might feel like you are starving. When you gain fat, your leptin levels increase and you feel more and more full.

Of course you may still feel hungry if you still have periods of restriction or are coming off of a long period of restriction.

MosToorani
02-28-2017, 03:23 AM
@Nate118

That makes a lot of sense mate.

What were your initial stats when you were feeling thing? weight? height?

And how many KGs/LBs did it take for that feeling to go away? I literally can't remember the last time i felt 'satisfied' without having to go down the 'volume food' route.

Grappa
02-28-2017, 04:00 AM
Never again will I eat brussels sprouts... just 4 with my dinner last night and I feel like im going to explode...

WTF... this is horrible.. I can't even stomach food without feeling uncomfortable the bloating is so intense.

My advice: Gain weight on fun foods, not veggies. Buy a powdered suppliment drink it and bam u got all your veggies

Grappa
02-28-2017, 04:03 AM
@mt

it's funny. I had convinced myself that i was extremely hungry because i had stretched my stomach. I now believe that this is nonsense. In my situation, weight gain helped with hunger.

Weight gain helps with satiety, especially fat gain. Fat cells signal to the hypothalamus of the brain. If you have too few fat cells, you will have lower levels of the hormone leptin. You might feel like you are starving. When you gain fat, your leptin levels increase and you feel more and more full.

Of course you may still feel hungry if you still have periods of restriction or are coming off of a long period of restriction.

this!!!!

Grappa
02-28-2017, 04:05 AM
@Nate118

That makes a lot of sense mate.

What were your initial stats when you were feeling thing? weight? height?

And how many KGs/LBs did it take for that feeling to go away? I literally can't remember the last time i felt 'satisfied' without having to go down the 'volume food' route.

It depends on an individiual. I had to gain 10-12 kg to feel normal hunger/fullness again. Before that i was a living endless pit, i am amazed now how the fk was i able to eat that much.

MosToorani
02-28-2017, 04:14 AM
It depends on an individiual. I had to gain 10-12 kg to feel normal hunger/fullness again. Before that i was a living endless pit, i am amazed now how the fk was i able to eat that much.

oh wow! it never occured to me to be honest!

It's just the fear of gaining weight/fat that is stopping me.

I would want to gain weight with strength in the gym, hence muscle at least but i have no desire to go the gym at all!

AdamWW
02-28-2017, 05:17 AM
My advice: Gain weight on fun foods, not veggies. Buyy a powdered suppliment drink it and bam u got all your veggies

I only ate a few of them and they had sauce on them. The vast majority of my food is more calorie dense but I enjoy my veggies. Just never though such a small amount would do that.

AdamWW
02-28-2017, 05:20 AM
oh wow! it never occured to me to be honest!

It's just the fear of gaining weight/fat that is stopping me.

I would want to gain weight with strength in the gym, hence muscle at least but i have no desire to go the gym at all!

Definitely depends on the individual, how long they restricted, their current weight and body fat, and the severity of the food restriction they had. Some people normalize in weeks, some people takes months or over a year. The longer or more severe the restriction, usually the longer the recovery to reach your 'set point'

Also keep in mind the lack of motivation and energy is a sign you're not there yet

sonnydfrizzy
02-28-2017, 10:15 AM
@MT
I gained 55 pounds before I felt normal. Body fat and body comp redistributes with hormones improving and it takes time. That is why it is so important to build your life up somewhere outside of food and fitness.

@AdamWW

What does a REAL day of eating look like to you?

MosToorani
02-28-2017, 10:29 AM
@MT
I gained 55 pounds before I felt normal. Body fat and body comp redistributes with hormones improving and it takes time. That is why it is so important to build your life up somewhere outside of food and fitness.

@AdamWW

What does a REAL day of eating look like to you?

oh wow .. i guess you were extremely thin and restrictive?

what do you mean by body fat redistributes with hormones improving? since the day i've gain a few kgs back (i'm not complaining haha), it all went into my gut haha

MT

sonnydfrizzy
02-28-2017, 10:53 AM
oh wow .. i guess you were extremely thin and restrictive?

what do you mean by body fat redistributes with hormones improving? since the day i've gain a few kgs back (i'm not complaining haha), it all went into my gut haha

MT

Nope, I was 130 at 5'11"

I was thin but not terribly. Just took a long time to get my hormones and psychology back in order.

AdamWW
02-28-2017, 11:15 AM
Nope, I was 130 at 5'11"

I was thin but not terribly. Just took a long time to get my hormones and psychology back in order.

Almost exactly what I got to when I was 18.

I was 6 foot (well, 5' 11.75") and 125lb.

Right now, I'm same height, but I think about 136lb... but now I'm actually leaner so I think it's effecting me similarly.

sonnydfrizzy
02-28-2017, 11:39 AM
Almost exactly what I got to when I was 18.

I was 6 foot (well, 5' 11.75") and 125lb.

Right now, I'm same height, but I think about 136lb... but now I'm actually leaner so I think it's effecting me similarly.\
You probably will need to be 170+ to feel normal, and to be okay with gaining a lot more body fat than you already have.

Howver, those with EDs are irrational and refuse to take action until their body forces them to.

What does a normal day of eating look like for you?

AdamWW
02-28-2017, 11:51 AM
@MT
I gained 55 pounds before I felt normal. Body fat and body comp redistributes with hormones improving and it takes time. That is why it is so important to build your life up somewhere outside of food and fitness.

@AdamWW

What does a REAL day of eating look like to you?

REAL day... well It varies a bit based on how much time I have cook and what im craving but there are some commonalities for sure.

Yesterday kind of sucked because of the stupid bloat, but on a typical day I eat within about 30-45min of waking up... i usually wake up pretty hungry especially now when I have degrees of extreme hunger throughout the day.

Typically it's an oats-based meal first off, something like 1-1.5 cups of raw oats, cooked up in cashew milk and then I'll add a banana, blueberries, granola, maple syrup, and protein powder on/in it. Honestly not sure on calories... probably 1000-1200.. but often times I'll still get hungry afterward and need a little more.

Then throughout the day I have 1-2 snacks other than lunch... usually that's like a bagel with PB + a piece of fruit or something like a large bowl of cereal... I think my snacks range anywhere from 500-800 calories right now... it takes a while for me to get full on snack-type foods.

Lunch kind of depends... if I bring lunch I usually bring a large container of pasta or something starchy that has marinara in it and some kind of protein like Tempeh or Tofu... i'll have that with some veggies (the type varies) and 1-2 pieces of fruit... plus a non-dairy yogurt. Not totally sure on calories but probably 1000-1200 in that meal... could be more some days.

Dinner and meals at night are hugely variable right now... my most common meal has been a lentil + sweet potato stew that I make with celery/mushrooms/other veggies... and I'll eat a whole large avocado as well... Otherwise I love making homemade pizza, stir fry, vegan burgers, homemade fries.... that kinda stuff.

Thing is though, I usually snack AFTER dinner a little because I have a hard time going to bed right now unless i'm full-ish because then I just think about food... so I have to fill up on something or I'll just be laying there wanting something, heh.

So yeah right now It's pretty standard breakfast/lunch/dinner but which snacks in between... if I train before work it's usually about 1-2 hours after breakfast, or if it's after work it's usually 1-2 hours after a snack. I can't train intensely at all unless I have some calories in me.

Kind of feeling like a bottomless pit sometimes but my body feels great... so fuk it.

AdamWW
02-28-2017, 11:55 AM
\
You probably will need to be 170+ to feel normal, and to be okay with gaining a lot more body fat than you already have.

Howver, those with EDs are irrational and refuse to take action until their body forces them to.

What does a normal day of eating look like for you?

I remember back when I bulked up to 173, it wasn't until I hit about 160 that I started to feel strong and normal again... but yeah I agree it's probably going to be 160-170lb before I stop feeling cold and super hungry all the time. Tall dudes issues ;)

Looking back at my pictures, it also wasn't until that 160 mark wherein my face/cheeks started to fill out more and I didn't look kind of gaunt.

I should add, though, when I bulked up I was going from 153-173... so EVEN when my starting point was higher, it took a while to feel 'better' and strong.

I actually stayed pretty damn lean when I got to 173... some people said I looked leaner than before.

AdamWW
02-28-2017, 12:10 PM
ON AN UNRELATED NOTE...

Lifted today...

Yet again, more squat gains... I was able to add 10lb to my first 2 sets :)

OHP also got easier but I didn't increase the weight... maybe next time.

Overall super happy though! Bulking FTW.

sonnydfrizzy
02-28-2017, 12:49 PM
@MT

by fat redistribution I mean that it took over a year for my body fat, water retention and general bloat to redistribute to "normal" terms. In the beginning, it was mostly body fat in my abdomen (which makes sense... protect the organs) and then I filled out more evenly 14 months later.

sonnydfrizzy
02-28-2017, 12:59 PM
REAL day... well It varies a bit based on how much time I have cook and what im craving but there are some commonalities for sure.

Yesterday kind of sucked because of the stupid bloat, but on a typical day I eat within about 30-45min of waking up... i usually wake up pretty hungry especially now when I have degrees of extreme hunger throughout the day.

Typically it's an oats-based meal first off, something like 1-1.5 cups of raw oats, cooked up in cashew milk and then I'll add a banana, blueberries, granola, maple syrup, and protein powder on/in it. Honestly not sure on calories... probably 1000-1200.. but often times I'll still get hungry afterward and need a little more.

Then throughout the day I have 1-2 snacks other than lunch... usually that's like a bagel with PB + a piece of fruit or something like a large bowl of cereal... I think my snacks range anywhere from 500-800 calories right now... it takes a while for me to get full on snack-type foods.

Lunch kind of depends... if I bring lunch I usually bring a large container of pasta or something starchy that has marinara in it and some kind of protein like Tempeh or Tofu... i'll have that with some veggies (the type varies) and 1-2 pieces of fruit... plus a non-dairy yogurt. Not totally sure on calories but probably 1000-1200 in that meal... could be more some days.

Dinner and meals at night are hugely variable right now... my most common meal has been a lentil + sweet potato stew that I make with celery/mushrooms/other veggies... and I'll eat a whole large avocado as well... Otherwise I love making homemade pizza, stir fry, vegan burgers, homemade fries.... that kinda stuff.

Thing is though, I usually snack AFTER dinner a little because I have a hard time going to bed right now unless i'm full-ish because then I just think about food... so I have to fill up on something or I'll just be laying there wanting something, heh.

So yeah right now It's pretty standard breakfast/lunch/dinner but which snacks in between... if I train before work it's usually about 1-2 hours after breakfast, or if it's after work it's usually 1-2 hours after a snack. I can't train intensely at all unless I have some calories in me.

Kind of feeling like a bottomless pit sometimes but my body feels great... so fuk it.

What is your fat intake like?
Are you still vegan?

A lot of those foods are not enabling you to eat lower volumes of food and higher energy density. A lot of what you are consuming is very slow digesting, low in fat and definitely contributing to your inability to eat more and train hard. I reduced fiber intake (when I was actually tracking food intake) down to 25-30 grams and cut meal sizes WAY down (not calories but changed food source), upped my fats and it made a marked difference on satiety, mental clarity, energy levels and ability to train hard.

After a while, you like the feeling of NOT being stuff and you can feel the psychological and physiological satisfaction and lack of drive to eat even though you are not overly bloated and full.

It is an odd sensation; abusing high volume foods and eating low fat, high fiber foods really messes with your brain and gut satiety signals but can quickly be normalized when you recondition yourself to alter food sources and eat for energy density and not volume.

My training improved markedly -- when I was training often -- when I ate more energy dense foods because I do not think I had to zap all my energy to digest such high volumes of food and fiber and the energy was more readily available.

For men, I really would focus on increasing fat intake slowly at each meal. It helps with digestion and regularity and **anecdotally** hormone health (although I think this is more correlation not causation... more fat intake helped me to increase energy density, digest food better and sleep more soundly therefore increasing male sex hormones).

AdamWW
02-28-2017, 01:16 PM
What is your fat intake like?
Are you still vegan?

A lot of those foods are not enabling you to eat lower volumes of food and higher energy density. A lot of what you are consuming is very slow digesting, low in fat and definitely contributing to your inability to eat more and train hard. I reduced fiber intake (when I was actually tracking food intake) down to 25-30 grams and cut meal sizes WAY down (not calories but changed food source), upped my fats and it made a marked difference on satiety, mental clarity, energy levels and ability to train hard.

After a while, you like the feeling of NOT being stuff and you can feel the psychological and physiological satisfaction and lack of drive to eat even though you are not overly bloated and full.

It is an odd sensation; abusing high volume foods and eating low fat, high fiber foods really messes with your brain and gut satiety signals but can quickly be normalized when you recondition yourself to alter food sources and eat for energy density and not volume.

My training improved markedly -- when I was training often -- when I ate more energy dense foods because I do not think I had to zap all my energy to digest such high volumes of food and fiber and the energy was more readily available.

For men, I really would focus on increasing fat intake slowly at each meal. It helps with digestion and regularity and **anecdotally** hormone health (although I think this is more correlation not causation... more fat intake helped me to increase energy density, digest food better and sleep more soundly therefore increasing male sex hormones).

I don't eat a ton of fat but I get little bits in each meal... I probably consume about 80g a day or so... fats tends to satiate me alot compared to carbs but that could be because of my fats are nuts/seeds/avocado.

Still vegan, yes.

Good points about fiber... I've been trying to consume less vegetables because, although I love the taste, they do fill me up. I've also had to stop eating beans or anything that might give me gas.

One thing I will say is that meals made with oil are far easier for me to eat for higher calories. For example, if I eat a curry dish (lots of fat from coconut milk) or a noodle stir-fry, I can eat tons of it before being full and the calorie count is huge.

I should probably start incorporating more of those kind of foods. I do love my granola though, and it has a lot of calories (200 per half cup).

Interestingly enough I've had to stop drinking caffeinated coffee because (1) with the volume of food I eat now it gives me heartburn and (2) it blunts my appetite a lot.

sonnydfrizzy
02-28-2017, 01:56 PM
@Adam
Why vegan?

Also... nobody loves veggies dude. This is not a joke either. Nobody eats a plain broc**** raw and thinks "this is amazing, I love this."

What foods do you fear?

AdamWW
02-28-2017, 02:10 PM
@Adam
Why vegan?

Also... nobody loves veggies dude. This is not a joke either. Nobody eats a plain broc**** raw and thinks "this is amazing, I love this."

What foods do you fear?

I wrote a longer explanation in my recovery log I think somewhere but I'll give you the clifs...

Basically I have had horrible acid reflux since I was 20. I tried every last attempt to fix the issues in isolation (what they elimination diets) but nothing worked except avoiding super-spicy foods, which I still do now, and also avoiding booze.

I decided to just take the strictest option I could, and my reflux has improved incredibly. After 6months though, I just started to enjoy not eating meat, and I did research on animal treatment, etc, and eventually the idea of consuming animal products just became unappealing to me. That's basically it...

And I don't completely agree with the veggies being not good thing ;) I do genuinely like carrots and sweet peas! But yeah kale, etc, not 'good' per se.

My main fear foods are higher fat... things like nutella, fattier ice creams, cakes, pastries... i freaking LOVE pastries. My orthorexia also involves fear of processed foods to an extent, things like pop tarts and that kinda stuff.

I also maintain fear of foods cooked in oil and especially out at restaurants where I cannot 'know' what is in it.

I have to fight hard to consume these without too much anxiety.

sonnydfrizzy
02-28-2017, 02:26 PM
I wrote a longer explanation in my recovery log I think somewhere but I'll give you the clifs...

Basically I have had horrible acid reflux since I was 20. I tried every last attempt to fix the issues in isolation (what they elimination diets) but nothing worked except avoiding super-spicy foods, which I still do now, and also avoiding booze.

I decided to just take the strictest option I could, and my reflux has improved incredibly. After 6months though, I just started to enjoy not eating meat, and I did research on animal treatment, etc, and eventually the idea of consuming animal products just became unappealing to me. That's basically it...

And I don't completely agree with the veggies being not good thing ;) I do genuinely like carrots and sweet peas! But yeah kale, etc, not 'good' per se.

My main fear foods are higher fat... things like nutella, fattier ice creams, cakes, pastries... i freaking LOVE pastries. My orthorexia also involves fear of processed foods to an extent, things like pop tarts and that kinda stuff.

I also maintain fear of foods cooked in oil and especially out at restaurants where I cannot 'know' what is in it.

I have to fight hard to consume these without too much anxiety.
The foods you fear most are the foods highest in palatability, fat, and calories.
I think you know your next step?

AdamWW
02-28-2017, 02:39 PM
The foods you fear most are the foods highest in palatability, fat, and calories.
I think you know your next step?

I'm eating them currently but they are the hardest to consume without feeling that inner ED voice causing me guilt. Sometimes it's not too bad, other times it makes it much harder. The fact that my strength is increasing helps me feel motivated to not worry about fat gain though, for sure.

Grappa
02-28-2017, 03:40 PM
I'm eating them currently but they are the hardest to consume without feeling that inner ED voice causing me guilt. Sometimes it's not too bad, other times it makes it much harder. The fact that my strength is increasing helps me feel motivated to not worry about fat gain though, for sure.

When i was under physiological support i have asked my therapist about veganism, cuz i have seen a fkload of peeps go vegan on anorexia recovery, i tought that is cuz banana n shiet is easily digestable and when u are malnourished your digestive system is really off.. RIP cheese in my entire life.... Back to the lines, i wanted to go vegan, ( kinda morbid, cuz i am a hunter. would be funny if after the hunt i would sit at the hunter's feast while cowered in blood, and tossing away the stew and saying no thx i am vegan. xD) and she told me, those who are going vegan/paleo etc bullcrap on recovery they will restrict themselves. Keep in mind if u are vegan you ar enot eating meat, if u are doing paleo, well i do not know much about paleo but it is a diet, so i think that restrict something. She told me just eat like a regular guy and everything will be okay. So i have started to eat like my friends, parents etc.. And it turned out awesome. As how your veggie intake goes, well i can agree with sonny, that veggies taste like crap, but here in hungary we deep fry veggies, for example mushrooms coated with eggs/breadcrumbs/flour tossed in boiling oil and bam, dense food my friend cuz that coating soaks up the oil like no tomorrow.

As how your veganism going i am not going to judge you about that, if that helped to you to get better, than everything is fine. Also i am getting reflux too from certain foods, for example tomato sauce is one of them, stuffed peppers, and different soups can bring me acid reflux, but i just do not care about that. Kinda painful but meh. **** can happen

Grappa
02-28-2017, 03:53 PM
@MT this redistribution thing is also varies, i can slightly feel that my fat is evening out, when i was at early refeeding state all that fat went to my mid section, while i had chicken legs/spaghetti arms, i had that belly while my glute bones drilled holes in my chair it was funny :D But keep in mind my situation is not the same as most of yours. I was not just skinny, i was not stupid shredded or slightly underweight. I was severley malnourished, i slimmed down to 43-45kg (99 lbs). I have gained 17 kg(37 lbs) in less than a year, and i have to gain almost the same, to get my pre ed weight back. So i have to gain a whooping 60-65 pound total. And the physical symptoms man... THat is hardcore. Hormones kicking back again, hypermetabolism at it's finest. Yes i am at "healthy" weight but a lot of **** going on my body still what is not normal.

AdamWW
02-28-2017, 05:34 PM
When i was under physiological support i have asked my therapist about veganism, cuz i have seen a fkload of peeps go vegan on anorexia recovery, i tought that is cuz banana n shiet is easily digestable and when u are malnourished your digestive system is really off.. RIP cheese in my entire life.... Back to the lines, i wanted to go vegan, ( kinda morbid, cuz i am a hunter. would be funny if after the hunt i would sit at the hunter's feast while cowered in blood, and tossing away the stew and saying no thx i am vegan. xD) and she told me, those who are going vegan/paleo etc bullcrap on recovery they will restrict themselves. Keep in mind if u are vegan you ar enot eating meat, if u are doing paleo, well i do not know much about paleo but it is a diet, so i think that restrict something. She told me just eat like a regular guy and everything will be okay. So i have started to eat like my friends, parents etc.. And it turned out awesome. As how your veggie intake goes, well i can agree with sonny, that veggies taste like crap, but here in hungary we deep fry veggies, for example mushrooms coated with eggs/breadcrumbs/flour tossed in boiling oil and bam, dense food my friend cuz that coating soaks up the oil like no tomorrow.

As how your veganism going i am not going to judge you about that, if that helped to you to get better, than everything is fine. Also i am getting reflux too from certain foods, for example tomato sauce is one of them, stuffed peppers, and different soups can bring me acid reflux, but i just do not care about that. Kinda painful but meh. **** can happen

You're right that many, MANY people do go toward veganism/vegetarianism as a means to stay in the restrictive cycle, and perhaps it did start that way with me. Now, though, I can say with 100% honesty that is NOT the reason. I'm not saying it HELPS me, because if anything it does make things harder, but it is not because it helps me restrict. I know enough about high-calorie vegan foods to know I can put on weight with the options I have.

My reflux, sadly, is more than a discomfort... it it debilitating when it gets bad, to the point where I can barely bend over after large meals from certain foods without wanting to puke.

Simply put, I just need more calorie-dense foods and less fiber, etc, and to give into my cravings when they come up related to food types, not just calories.

Things ARE getting better.. i'm getting stronger.. and I do 'feel' my body feeling better a little bit every day.

MosToorani
02-28-2017, 08:35 PM
@Sonny

My current stats are 5'7" @ 150lbs (as of today).. and i already have a large gut (so i guess i'm not in such a bad state?) ... but yes, the symptoms that i'm feeling are exactly what Adam described. I'm cold all the time, hungry all the time.

I want to get help but unfortunately, I live in a developing country (Bahrain, Middle East) and we do not have experts in this field. So the only people i can talk to are my family members and all they advice is "why don't you just eat?" .. well, it's easier said than done.

So what do you recommend? What advice can you give me?

I track calories, weigh food etc. 2,100 a day (on and off gym) ..

When i decide not to track calories or weigh my food .. my brain goes ballistic .. my OCD kicks in and i ALWAYS, ALWAYS end up overestimating my food intake and wake up the next day weighing less.. why? because i avoid eating the food that are calorific .. However, on days that i track intake, i eat everything, ice cream or chocolate etc .. as long as i 'account' for it.

Additionally, my fat intake is low ... maybe 20-30 grams a day, MAX. Why? Because I love carbs much, much more .. love veggies and love cereal!

I'm in desperate need of help (obviously). strength has gone down in the gym :)

MT ..

AdamWW
02-28-2017, 09:39 PM
@MT

Could you briefly recap your history/ED story?

I don't recall specifically your past.

MosToorani
02-28-2017, 10:00 PM
@MT

Could you briefly recap your history/ED story?

I don't recall specifically your past.

I'll be stating it in KGs and CM :P

Around 2009, I used to weigh about 170 - 180 KG .. then over the course of 2 years or so, I went on an atkins diet and managed to lower my weight until 100 KG ..

and since 2012 till today, I've been on a caloric deficit (yo-yo dieting) until today, which i weigh 68KGs.

My current stats are 176 cm, 68 KGs ..

I've never bulked in my life .. never .. I've been losing weight for the past 8-9 years as i was morbidly obese ..

Any other info? I'll share any info you need. any.

MT

AdamWW
02-28-2017, 10:07 PM
@MT

Got it.

So, I don't know much about people 'coming back' from weight loss from a very high weight (congrats by the way, that's awesome), I really only have experience being a bit chubby and then slimming way, way down.

However, I do think that your calorie intake being what it is and your fat intake being SO low you're suffering from lack of proper energy intake and probably not getting near enough fat.

Chronically underconsuming fat will undoubtedly cause your hormones to go out of wack, and if you couple that with lower calories while trying to exercise, you're just going to get weaker because you cannot recover from the workouts.

The generally accepted minimums for fat intake should be about .4-.45x your weight in pounds... so you'd need something like 65-70 at a MINIMUM.

In addition to that, you really should try to increase calories and see if it helps your energy. Even if it's just a little bit or placing more carbs/calories prior to training, you have to experiment to find something like gives you more energy to perform and function.

I think you're just very used to dieting so it comes easy, but you're not going to feel motivated to train or get strong if you're stuck in diet/cut mode.

MosToorani
02-28-2017, 10:14 PM
@AdamWW

I've been consuming less fat on purpose in order to eat more carbs for satiety and volume reasons ..

Just under the impression that 60-70 grams of fat = 540 - 630 cals .. I could eat about 150 grams of carbs .. double the amount and more volume ..

I'll take the bulk seriously after i come back from my trip (coming sunday).

I'm just desperate to gain strength and size but just the amount that i'm eating is low i guess? I don't know.

MT

AdamWW
02-28-2017, 10:18 PM
@AdamWW

I've been consuming less fat on purpose in order to eat more carbs for satiety and volume reasons ..

Just under the impression that 60-70 grams of fat = 540 - 630 cals .. I could eat about 150 grams of carbs .. double the amount and more volume ..

I'll take the bulk seriously after i come back from my trip (coming sunday).

I'm just desperate to gain strength and size but just the amount that i'm eating is low i guess? I don't know.

MT

I would hope your health is more important than eating more volume....

If you're eating too little fat on purpose, you're hurting your body on purpose.

Why would you wait until Monday to make a good decision? Get some trail mix or whatever and try consuming more fat and see how you feel...

MosToorani
02-28-2017, 10:36 PM
I would hope your health is more important than eating more volume....

If you're eating too little fat on purpose, you're hurting your body on purpose.

Why would you wait until Monday to make a good decision? Get some trail mix or whatever and try consuming more fat and see how you feel...

You're absolutely right .. my health matters more ..

Reason why monday (sunday actually) is because i'm going on a short vacation today (Guns n Roses concert!! WOOOOP!), which means no calories will be counted and the people around me love food, hence will motivate me to eat anyways! haha

MT

partydave
02-28-2017, 10:54 PM
I'm managing to eat more (almost to the point of binging) but I'm still constantly worried about gaining weight. Urgh!

MosToorani
02-28-2017, 11:04 PM
I'm managing to eat more (almost to the point of binging) but I'm still constantly worried about gaining weight. Urgh!

I'm sorry but .. what are your stats?

I know I'm probably just talking the talk rather than walking the walk (if that makes sense) but .. look at it from a 'fueling yourself' point of view .. eat more and wreck havoc in the gym!

MT

partydave
03-01-2017, 12:15 AM
I'm sorry but .. what are your stats?

I know I'm probably just talking the talk rather than walking the walk (if that makes sense) but .. look at it from a 'fueling yourself' point of view .. eat more and wreck havoc in the gym!

MT

Fairly new to lifting (started F5 3 weeks ago), but was doing street workouts for a year before than and been cycling for most of my adult life. 3 x week lifting on beginner F5, 4 - 5 a week cycling average roughly 5-8 hours a week depending on what I'm training for

I'm 1.7m "tall", 67kg, BF% around 12ish

Squat: 65kg
Bench: 75kg
DL: 65kg

partydave
03-01-2017, 12:16 AM
and averaging between 2000 - 2400 calories for now. Was struggling to hit 1600 a week ago

MosToorani
03-01-2017, 12:25 AM
and averaging between 2000 - 2400 calories for now. Was struggling to hit 1600 a week ago

Keep going at it buddy!

With your stats and the amount of work you're doing (lifting + cycling), I honestly believe that you should be eating probably more than 2.4k!

MT

partydave
03-01-2017, 12:31 AM
Keep going at it buddy!

With your stats and the amount of work you're doing (lifting + cycling), I honestly believe that you should be eating probably more than 2.4k!

MT
Baby steps!

I came from weighing 106kg, at 170cm, that put my bf% at around "all of it". This is what keeps me from enjoying food...going back to that fat disgusting slob

MosToorani
03-01-2017, 12:42 AM
Baby steps!

I came from weighing 106kg, at 170cm, that put my bf% at around "all of it". This is what keeps me from enjoying food...going back to that fat disgusting slob

I can completely relate to this ..

I used to weigh 160-180 KGs (i was so scared to even look at the scale!) at 176 cm .. then slimmed down to 67-68 KGs .. Nevertheless, we have to fight this mental disorder .. at the end of the day, it's not worth the mental/health risks ..

I was at my happiest moments in life when I was obese .. not healthy for sure, but at least happy.

Can't wait to be happy again ..

Keep in mind though, the road to recovery is a long one with many obstacles on the way and we can get through it.

MT

partydave
03-01-2017, 12:47 AM
I can completely relate to this ..

I used to weigh 160-180 KGs (i was so scared to even look at the scale!) at 176 cm .. then slimmed down to 67-68 KGs .. Nevertheless, we have to fight this mental disorder .. at the end of the day, it's not worth the mental/health risks ..

I was at my happiest moments in life when I was obese .. not healthy for sure, but at least happy.

Can't wait to be happy again ..

Keep in mind though, the road to recovery is a long one with many obstacles on the way and we can get through it.

MT

Very well put.

I am happy at least...for now, but I am constantly thinking about food. I don't know how long I'll be able to constantly track and think about food. I keep setting myself goals, when this or that happens, I don't have to track etc etc. Those goals pass and I just keep going

MosToorani
03-01-2017, 12:53 AM
@PartyDave

I'm on the same page mate .. constantly thinking about food, constant cravings, constant desires to binge etc..

One day, buddy. One day.

MT

Bonnappe
03-01-2017, 04:47 AM
I think that having goals would help me to stop focusing on food so much, right now I don't really have any specific goals nor do I have lots of stress etc. aka my life at the moment is easy thus my mind shifts towards thinking about food and what to eat next and how to eat as much as possible without gaining weight

Do you guys have any goals and if so what kind of? I need ideas on what to focus instead of food

partydave
03-01-2017, 05:28 AM
I think that having goals would help me to stop focusing on food so much, right now I don't really have any specific goals nor do I have lots of stress etc. aka my life at the moment is easy thus my mind shifts towards thinking about food and what to eat next and how to eat as much as possible without gaining weight

Do you guys have any goals and if so what kind of? I need ideas on what to focus instead of food

Not getting fat is a pretty major goal for me

AdamWW
03-01-2017, 06:15 AM
A few of my gym/fitness/ED goals are in my sig

Also:

- finish in the top 3 in both my golf leagues
- shoot below par in a tournament golf match
- make it to nationals in my bigger amateur league
- get a promotion at work
- buy a house before my 32nd bday in June
- learn a new language
- visit a new country every year (lofty goal)
- run a 1/2 marathon (once I'm weight restored)
- go on a 50mi bike ride (once I'm weight restored)


Those are just some

Grappa
03-01-2017, 06:58 AM
I am pretty minimalist:D

I have only one goal: Start martial arts again :D

AdamWW
03-01-2017, 08:10 AM
Very well put.

I am happy at least...for now, but I am constantly thinking about food. I don't know how long I'll be able to constantly track and think about food. I keep setting myself goals, when this or that happens, I don't have to track etc etc. Those goals pass and I just keep going

Hungry people think about food.

I'm a bottomless pit today but that won't stop me :)

Sometimes I wish I could post what I'm eating on here because honestly, hearing that some of ya'll are eating ~2000 calories a day just amazes me... i'd be starving.

BuffRockChick
03-01-2017, 10:02 AM
Hi everyone! I'm jumping in to brag (perhaps) that I've started eating better. I had trouble working with a dietician. But I've done well with USDA Supertracker website. I've been closing the gap on nutritional deficiencies.

I'm ridiculously weak, cannot do a single pushup even though I've been working on it. I have finally been able to get adequate protein (for a sedentary person). My daily energy expenditure is low, so 1,600 calories/day for me at the moment.

I'm having trouble getting started moving more and lifting more. I am restricted to bodyweight exercises I can do at home. I'm stay at home mom with 2 kids - one is homeschooled and has ADHD so that usually prevents me from even going outside to take a walk.

I'm feeling very stuck and chubby (because I am for real), and struggling with wanting to give up on movement and go back to restricting food.

AdamWW
03-01-2017, 10:10 AM
Hi everyone! I'm jumping in to brag (perhaps) that I've started eating better. I had trouble working with a dietician. But I've done well with USDA Supertracker website. I've been closing the gap on nutritional deficiencies.

I'm ridiculously weak, cannot do a single pushup even though I've been working on it. I have finally been able to get adequate protein (for a sedentary person). My daily energy expenditure is low, so 1,600 calories/day for me at the moment.

I'm having trouble getting started moving more and lifting more. I am restricted to bodyweight exercises I can do at home. I'm stay at home mom with 2 kids - one is homeschooled and has ADHD so that usually prevents me from even going outside to take a walk.

I'm feeling very stuck and chubby (because I am for real), and struggling with wanting to give up on movement and go back to restricting food.

Wishing you the best in motivations.

I apologize I cannot recall your story/background... but 1600 seems pretty low to me. Are you feeling enough energy with that?

AdamWW
03-01-2017, 10:15 AM
Golf season starts this weekend.. I'm going to have to be super focused on getting high-calorie foods in during this time. I have a double-header (a saturday and a sunday round), which for one of them on saturday I HAVE to walk (they do not allow carts) but for sunday I plan on taking the cart because it comes with my registration fee (plus the weather will be horrible).

Going to lift tomorrow but take Friday - Sunday off the gym since I'll be active on the course anyway.

Hoping to bring home a victory! :)

No real plans for today, just work. Feeling pretty sore from yesterday's workout since I did increase on my squats.

One thing is for sure... I DO need to decrease volume. I don't think my bodyweight is high enough yet to do anything beyond maybe 2-3 sets for big lifts... my connective tissue probably just can't handle it at this point.

Probably have to go back to doing just compounds and maybe 1-2 isolations... then just getting the hell out of there.

sonnydfrizzy
03-01-2017, 10:38 AM
@Sonny

My current stats are 5'7" @ 150lbs (as of today).. and i already have a large gut (so i guess i'm not in such a bad state?) ... but yes, the symptoms that i'm feeling are exactly what Adam described. I'm cold all the time, hungry all the time.

I want to get help but unfortunately, I live in a developing country (Bahrain, Middle East) and we do not have experts in this field. So the only people i can talk to are my family members and all they advice is "why don't you just eat?" .. well, it's easier said than done.

So what do you recommend? What advice can you give me?

I track calories, weigh food etc. 2,100 a day (on and off gym) ..

When i decide not to track calories or weigh my food .. my brain goes ballistic .. my OCD kicks in and i ALWAYS, ALWAYS end up overestimating my food intake and wake up the next day weighing less.. why? because i avoid eating the food that are calorific .. However, on days that i track intake, i eat everything, ice cream or chocolate etc .. as long as i 'account' for it.

Additionally, my fat intake is low ... maybe 20-30 grams a day, MAX. Why? Because I love carbs much, much more .. love veggies and love cereal!

I'm in desperate need of help (obviously). strength has gone down in the gym :)

MT ..
Holy smokes. Especially as a former obese individual... EAT MORE FAT..

That is what drove my food OCD and I think low fat contributes greatly to it.. Eating less fat when you are a male -- fat is crucial to testosterone -- makes a physiological drive to eat more and feel normal. I know when I was eating low fat, the food volume was VERY high but I was never actually satiated.

there is short term fullness and then total body satiety (this is how I like to coin it). When you eat high volume foods, your stomach is full but your brain and body is not satiated; your hormones are not properly functioning and you still need that caloric density and cholesterol to drive male hormone production. Eat more fat and watch how you will feel very satiated!

Also, your "gut" is probably in part due to your distorted perception of self and high aromatization of estrogen from your lack of fat in your diet... viscerally you will store more fat there if your hormones like cortisol and testosterone are jacked up.

EAT MORE FAT (at least 75 grams a day AT LEAST)!


Golf season starts this weekend.. I'm going to have to be super focused on getting high-calorie foods in during this time. I have a double-header (a saturday and a sunday round), which for one of them on saturday I HAVE to walk (they do not allow carts) but for sunday I plan on taking the cart because it comes with my registration fee (plus the weather will be horrible).

Going to lift tomorrow but take Friday - Sunday off the gym since I'll be active on the course anyway.

Hoping to bring home a victory! :)

No real plans for today, just work. Feeling pretty sore from yesterday's workout since I did increase on my squats.

One thing is for sure... I DO need to decrease volume. I don't think my bodyweight is high enough yet to do anything beyond maybe 2-3 sets for big lifts... my connective tissue probably just can't handle it at this point.

Probably have to go back to doing just compounds and maybe 1-2 isolations... then just getting the hell out of there.

My recovery was trash when I was ultra lean and I have found I do best with 1 top set per exercise and less "heavy" compounds to make progress.

Good luck in golf man :D

BuffRockChick
03-01-2017, 10:54 AM
Wishing you the best in motivations.

I apologize I cannot recall your story/background... but 1600 seems pretty low to me. Are you feeling enough energy with that?

Most days it's okay. Sometimes I feel hungry and have a bit more. Tracking says my average is closer to 1700.

I'm 32, misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder years ago when I actually had an eating disorder. I think diagnosis is NOS. I have anorexic episodes, most recently last summer. Weight recovered, but I get a little weaker with each episode and a little fatter at my maintenance weight so I'm more susceptible to body image problems and restricting. In between anorexic episodes, my eating is sporadic and disordered and has been almost exclusively saturated fat and simple sugars. I'm doing okay getting protein now. If I don't eat enough, my first symptom is food aversions, especially to protein. Then I *really* don't eat enough and get all the "fun" physical effects. My mood is most severely affected.

I'm a nicer person to be around now that I'm eating more normally with protein and veggies. I didn't expect disordered thoughts to last longer than my eating habits. :/

BuffRockChick
03-01-2017, 10:56 AM
Non food goals?

1 push-up.

AdamWW
03-01-2017, 10:59 AM
Most days it's okay. Sometimes I feel hungry and have a bit more. Tracking says my average is closer to 1700.

I'm 32, misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder years ago when I actually had an eating disorder. I think diagnosis is NOS. I have anorexic episodes, most recently last summer. Weight recovered, but I get a little weaker with each episode and a little fatter at my maintenance weight so I'm more susceptible to body image problems and restricting. In between anorexic episodes, my eating is sporadic and disordered and has been almost exclusively saturated fat and simple sugars. I'm doing okay getting protein now. If I don't eat enough, my first symptom is food aversions, especially to protein. Then I *really* don't eat enough and get all the "fun" physical effects. My mood is most severely affected.

I'm a nicer person to be around now that I'm eating more normally with protein and veggies. I didn't expect disordered thoughts to last longer than my eating habits. :/

Just so you know, "sporadic" eating can be just as/more 'normal' than 'planned' eating...

Normal eating is intuitive... it is based on a combination of hunger and consideration for other aspects of your life, but not body image or a desire to control your life/cope.

I really like how this passage lays it out:

"Normal eating is going to the table hungry and eating until you are satisfied. It is being able to choose food you like and eat it and truly get enough of it -not just stop eating because you think you should. Normal eating is being able to give some thought to your food selection so you get nutritious food, but not being so wary and restrictive that you miss out on enjoyable food. Normal eating is giving yourself permission to eat sometimes because you are happy, sad or bored, or just because it feels good. Normal eating is mostly three meals a day, or four or five, or it can be choosing to munch along the way. It is leaving some cookies on the plate because you know you can have some again tomorrow, or it is eating more now because they taste so wonderful. Normal eating is overeating at times, feeling stuffed and uncomfortable. And it can be undereating at times and wishing you had more. Normal eating is trusting your body to make up for your mistakes in eating. Normal eating takes up some of your time and attention, but keeps its place as only one important area of your life.

In short, normal eating is flexible. It varies in response to your hunger, your schedule, your proximity to food and your feelings."

AdamWW
03-01-2017, 01:49 PM
I'm curious... is there any science addressing why extreme hunger gets worse AFTER meals? That's how it is for me... just wondering why that might be.

Grappa
03-01-2017, 02:17 PM
I'm curious... is there any science addressing why extreme hunger gets worse AFTER meals? That's how it is for me... just wondering why that might be.

I am going to be simple now: Your body is doing this right now: Cool finally you have given me food, now give me moar. And this will continue when it will thinks the weight/your bodycomp is fine for your health. :)

AdamWW
03-01-2017, 02:26 PM
I am going to be simple now: Your body is doing this right now: Cool finally you have given me food, now give me moar. And this will continue when it will thinks the weight/your bodycomp is fine for your health. :)

Makes sense, I'm just wondering if it's a physical thing or a mental thing, or both? It blows my mind being twice as hungry after a large meal than I was before. So strange.

Grappa
03-01-2017, 02:39 PM
Makes sense, I'm just wondering if it's a physical thing or a mental thing, or both? It blows my mind being twice as hungry after a large meal than I was before. So strange.

Physical and it is normal.

Strawng
03-01-2017, 02:41 PM
Makes sense, I'm just wondering if it's a physical thing or a mental thing, or both? It blows my mind being twice as hungry after a large meal than I was before. So strange.
It's actually largely physical. I dealt with it back when I was recovering by planning activities shortly after eating and then responding to my extreme hunger later (waiting 30 mins or so) after a short break if I still felt any inclination whatsoever to do so. I say it's mostly physical because, as my intake normalized, the extreme hunger after eating disappeared. Your body starts making you ravenous each time you eat because it essentially "fears" that you're going to starve it and it won't get food again. The only way out is to respond to your hunger as best as you possibly can.

Grappa
03-01-2017, 02:51 PM
It's actually largely physical. I dealt with it back when I was recovering by planning activities shortly after eating and then responding to my extreme hunger later (waiting 30 mins or so) after a short break if I still felt any inclination whatsoever to do so. I say it's mostly physical because, as my intake normalized, the extreme hunger after eating disappeared. Your body starts making you ravenous each time you eat because it essentially "fears" that you're going to starve it and it won't get food again. The only way out is to respond to your hunger as best as you possibly can.

Best answer for your question is right here Adam! :D

AdamWW
03-01-2017, 03:23 PM
Best answer for your question is right here Adam! :D

makes sense!

AdamWW
03-01-2017, 05:01 PM
Well, was off to a great start today until I got a big trigger...

Now gotta fight through it. Ugh...

MosToorani
03-01-2017, 10:17 PM
Just a quick update of my trip so far!

Firstly, I've been reading all the posts and I'm in the same page as Adam! Every time I eat, my hunger because waaaaay more than it started!

Example last night, I had dinner with my friends at a restaurant. fried calamari, avocado and shrimp salad drenched in thousand island dressing and olive oil for starters. And my main was a fried fish fillet with a side of salad drenched in oil.

I finished my food, then had my friend's girlfriend's food and I was still extremely hungry! The feeling was like I could eat a horse!

Anyways, started today with 400 grams of carrots, a protein bar and went for a walk until my friends wake up.

Will be heading for coffee now and then to IMG! (Indoor theme park).

I'm starving. I could still eat a horse!

Oh, and Adam, great goals mate! You'll ace your upcoming golf course!

Grappa! You'll be the next Bruce Lee! Haha.

There is a gym in the hotel and I'm thinking of doing a session tomorrow morning! Will see how it goes!

Cheers!

MT

Grappa
03-02-2017, 02:39 AM
Just a quick update of my trip so far!

Firstly, I've been reading all the posts and I'm in the same page as Adam! Every time I eat, my hunger because waaaaay more than it started!

Example last night, I had dinner with my friends at a restaurant. fried calamari, avocado and shrimp salad drenched in thousand island dressing and olive oil for starters. And my main was a fried fish fillet with a side of salad drenched in oil.

I finished my food, then had my friend's girlfriend's food and I was still extremely hungry! The feeling was like I could eat a horse!

Anyways, started today with 400 grams of carrots, a protein bar and went for a walk until my friends wake up.

Will be heading for coffee now and then to IMG! (Indoor theme park).

I'm starving. I could still eat a horse!

Oh, and Adam, great goals mate! You'll ace your upcoming golf course!

Grappa! You'll be the next Bruce Lee! Haha.

There is a gym in the hotel and I'm thinking of doing a session tomorrow morning! Will see how it goes!

Cheers!

MT

Well, carrots is not a breakfast. Eggs n bacon, Omlette with bread, big ass bowl of oats, cereal, pancakes, sausages with mustard this is breakfast, mix your food when u eat. All of your meals should contain proten, carbs + fat. For example when i was at vacation, and i ordered fried trout, i had my fish, they given me a fkload of leafy greens also. So i got my fats/protein from that meal, and after the dish i ordered 4 slices of cake for carbs simple.

partydave
03-02-2017, 05:35 AM
I find it easier and easier to eat more food, but I've gone to the other spectrum of the scale. Obsessing about food and then start binging. 2 big bowls of muesli after a massive dinner last night. This is what I was scared of, eating all my results away

AdamWW
03-02-2017, 07:33 AM
I find it easier and easier to eat more food, but I've gone to the other spectrum of the scale. Obsessing about food and then start binging. 2 big bowls of muesli after a massive dinner last night. This is what I was scared of, eating all my results away

It's two bowls of muesli. Two bowls. That isn't 'all your results'.

Don't give power to a couple bowls of grains and dried fruit.

Vanzero
03-02-2017, 08:09 AM
Hey guys, hope you're doing awesome.

Quick update: I decided I had to kinda dissapear from social media/forums in order to get my head sorted out. Also been seeing a psychologist which is helping out a tremendous amount. CBT is awesome. All my food related problems come from my perfectionist attitude. I'm working on being less hard on myself and actually enjoying life.

Took a couple of weeks off the gym and started going again last week. Up 1kg and currently weighing 59kg. Goals: 60 kg bench/ 100 kg squat / 150 kg deadlift.

AdamWW
03-02-2017, 08:27 AM
Hey guys, hope you're doing awesome.

Quick update: I decided I had to kinda dissapear from social media/forums in order to get my head sorted out. Also been seeing a psychologist which is helping out a tremendous amount. CBT is awesome. All my food related problems come from my perfectionist attitude. I'm working on being less hard on myself and actually enjoying life.

Took a couple of weeks off the gym and started going again last week. Up 1kg and currently weighing 59kg. Goals: 60 kg bench/ 100 kg squat / 150 kg deadlift.

Very good news.

CBT is awesome... I agree. It is HARD... but it is effective. I did it for my anxiety attacks.

Bonnappe
03-02-2017, 08:57 AM
Hey guys, hope you're doing awesome.

Quick update: I decided I had to kinda dissapear from social media/forums in order to get my head sorted out. Also been seeing a psychologist which is helping out a tremendous amount. CBT is awesome. All my food related problems come from my perfectionist attitude. I'm working on being less hard on myself and actually enjoying life.

Took a couple of weeks off the gym and started going again last week. Up 1kg and currently weighing 59kg. Goals: 60 kg bench/ 100 kg squat / 150 kg deadlift.
Great to hear good news from you man! I'm exactly the same, my perfectionist attitude ruins me up, need to do exactly what you have done / doing!

May I ask you, how tall are you? I weighed myself today, and I was honestly quite terrified

MosToorani
03-02-2017, 12:22 PM
*Quick Update*

@Grappa .. Yes, I agree. Carrots are definitely not a breakfast haha .. but it was quite early in the morning and my friends were still asleep.

@Bonnappe .. Stop weighing yourself la. I'm curious now. It sounds like a lot of water weight!

With regards to my day, went to IMG. World's largest indoor theme park and it was absolutely fantastic.

Lunch, I had a couple of boneless chicken wings, a large chicken salad and a sirloin steak with veggies. Went back to the hotel and napped coz I was so tired. *had an apple as a snack*

Haven't had dinner yet but I did have 10 Timbits from Tim Hortons. Those babies are delicious haha.

Thinking of having dinner but I feel completely bloated. My steps tracker says I've burnt 1.5k calories from walking. I know I should take that with a pinch of salt because of how inaccurate it is.

Additionally, there is a scale in my bathroom but I haven't weighed myself for the past two days. Subconsciously, I want to but I definitely won't.

Tomorrow is Guns N roses concert. Way too excited!

Cheers!

MT

Grappa
03-02-2017, 01:44 PM
*Quick Update*

@Grappa .. Yes, I agree. Carrots are definitely not a breakfast haha .. but it was quite early in the morning and my friends were still asleep.

@Bonnappe .. Stop weighing yourself la. I'm curious now. It sounds like a lot of water weight!

With regards to my day, went to IMG. World's largest indoor theme park and it was absolutely fantastic.

Lunch, I had a couple of boneless chicken wings, a large chicken salad and a sirloin steak with veggies. Went back to the hotel and napped coz I was so tired. *had an apple as a snack*

Haven't had dinner yet but I did have 10 Timbits from Tim Hortons. Those babies are delicious haha.

Thinking of having dinner but I feel completely bloated. My steps tracker says I've burnt 1.5k calories from walking. I know I should take that with a pinch of salt because of how inaccurate it is.

Additionally, there is a scale in my bathroom but I haven't weighed myself for the past two days. Subconsciously, I want to but I definitely won't.

Tomorrow is Guns N roses concert. Way too excited!

Cheers!

MT

Do yourself a favor and throw away that tracker. Why is it so important to know how many steps u have made? I find it really obsessive, it is like tracking how many times a day u breath, or how many times a day your heart beats.

AdamWW
03-02-2017, 03:53 PM
Do yourself a favor and throw away that tracker. Why is it so important to know how many steps u have made? I find it really obsessive, it is like tracking how many times a day u breath, or how many times a day your heart beats.

This.

I was actually wondering how you (MT) knew you ate exactly 400g of carrots...

AdamWW
03-02-2017, 09:52 PM
Alrighty, well. Lifted today. No further gains on squats, but I did increase on BB Rows, SKullcrushers, and my BB Curls. Bench also didn't move. Still though workout felt good overall.

Ended up going for a couple drinks with a coworker at Happy Hour near the office. Had good times. Being social definitely helps take my mind off the ED.

I did, like I mentioned, get triggered BIG TIME a couple days ago in a way that hasn't happened for a while. Dad found my old passport from college, and in the picture my face looked rounder/fuller than it is now. That picture was AFTER my previous slim down with my ED, but I remember having that picture taken back then and also being triggered because I thought "Oh... I really thought I was thinner than this". I've always hated having pictures taken of me, even now.

Long story short, it triggered the same "Oh maybe i'm not THAT thin then" kind of thought process, and it was hard to shake off.

Thought about it for a while though, and ultimately landed at the realization that, even if I did - by some stroke of bad luck - get chubby again... I would much rather be bigger and happy, than be stuck in my current lean state and feel depressed, cold, tired, and weak.... I'd rather sacrifice %'s of bodyfat for being able to smile every day and feel strong.

We only live once as far as we know, so why not eat what we want, when we want, and just not worry so much.

So, my advice: if you come from an overweight past and you fear gaining the weight back, try to focus on how you felt back then, before you started obsessing. Not your thoughts about your body (how you looked), but in general how you felt... happy? positive? I know, for me, I was WAY more optimistic, energetic, and happy every day. Sure, I always wanted to be leaner, but at least then I could focus the majority of time on school, friends, hobbies, and just live and eat how I wanted.

Anyway... random rant... night ya'll.

MosToorani
03-02-2017, 11:12 PM
@Grappa & @Adam

Yes.. Although I completely agree, it's difficult to just go cold turkey. I use it to intuitively eat more on days that I don't track my calories and say "screw it".

With regards to the carrots, it's the same baby carrots that is peeled and ready to eat that I usually buy back home and weigh it on the scale. Stupid, I know.

Anyways, ended up last night with the Timbits and a triple burger from Five Guys. I just said "screw it, I'm on vacation" and ate it. I've had better burgers though haha.

Update on today.. it's 11 am, friends are still asleep. I had the same bag of carrots as a snack until they wake up for breakfast/lunch/brunch?!

And yes, Adam, I completely agree with what you said above. I remember my obese days where besides being upset about my body and how I looked, at least I was happy and content with the other things in my life.

Cheers

MT

partydave
03-02-2017, 11:22 PM
Today was my scheduled weigh in (I sneaked in a few weigh ins during the week) and I've gone up from 66 to 68.6kg. In my mind, I know this is water retention or whatever, but I feel like I'm eating too much (at 2000 calories)

This weekend we're visiting my parents with no internet, so I will not be able to track my intake, luckily
My mother bakes amazing cookies as well

Grappa
03-03-2017, 02:36 AM
@Grappa & @Adam

Yes.. Although I completely agree, it's difficult to just go cold turkey. I use it to intuitively eat more on days that I don't track my calories and say "screw it".

With regards to the carrots, it's the same baby carrots that is peeled and ready to eat that I usually buy back home and weigh it on the scale. Stupid, I know.

Anyways, ended up last night with the Timbits and a triple burger from Five Guys. I just said "screw it, I'm on vacation" and ate it. I've had better burgers though haha.

Update on today.. it's 11 am, friends are still asleep. I had the same bag of carrots as a snack until they wake up for breakfast/lunch/brunch?!

And yes, Adam, I completely agree with what you said above. I remember my obese days where besides being upset about my body and how I looked, at least I was happy and content with the other things in my life.

Cheers

MT

So u are using it to eat more? Alrght. U have said u are eating around 2100 a day. U are burning off 1500 via walking. And u honestly think your body functions on 600 cals a day? For me it is like i am eating the same amount on my hunting days like when i do not march all day. Makes no sense. And yes, after that day i am hungry as hell, but i eat like a king that time to respond my hunger. When u are hungry you should eat. In my opinion it is stupidly simple :D Even know i can relate to Adam so much, that after a big meal he is still hungry etc. I am the same too, cuz #1: i am hypermetabolic, and that time your body demands food, 2# i am still too lean, but u gotta do what u have to do that time, is eat moar. Keep in mind, i was almost bedridden when i started my recovery and i had to eat way more than you currecly now. Yes i felt like dog**** for 4 months, until my hormones/my body kinda normalised, but i do not ragret everything, i do not ragret drinking oil, eating until i am a sick etc. Cuz this lead me to a better state. :)

MosToorani
03-03-2017, 03:58 AM
@Grappa

I wish I had your mental strength to do that.

I'm trying but it is extremely difficult to tell that voice in my head to shut the f*** up.

Vanzero
03-03-2017, 04:36 AM
Very good news.

CBT is awesome... I agree. It is HARD... but it is effective. I did it for my anxiety attacks.

Thanks man, you're one of my inspirations, hope you're doing fine on your own recovery.



Great to hear good news from you man! I'm exactly the same, my perfectionist attitude ruins me up, need to do exactly what you have done / doing!

May I ask you, how tall are you? I weighed myself today, and I was honestly quite terrified


Thanks man, I'm 174cm which is 5'8? 5'9? Not sure.

Don't be scared of the scale man, don't let an object take control of your life, focus on your own self and let go of those irrational thoughts.

Grappa
03-03-2017, 06:21 AM
Thanks man, you're one of my inspirations, hope you're doing fine on your own recovery.



Thanks man, I'm 174cm which is 5'8? 5'9? Not sure.

Don't be scared of the scale man, don't let an object take control of your life, focus on your own self and let go of those irrational thoughts.

I am glad u are doing better, and i know well, u are in a good road to recover! Just keep in mind fight with your triggers, and do not let your eating disorder to creep back to your life! Stay strong!

Grappa
03-03-2017, 06:28 AM
@Grappa

I wish I had your mental strength to do that.

I'm trying but it is extremely difficult to tell that voice in my head to shut the f*** up.

This helped me a lot: Find your triggers, and TAME them! It will going to sound stupid but every time you feel down or "relapse" say **** you ed you are not controlling me. I get triggered many many times, but i know, drinking+starving myself is not the best option to escape reality.

Bonnappe
03-03-2017, 07:27 AM
Thanks man, I'm 174cm which is 5'8? 5'9? Not sure.

Don't be scared of the scale man, don't let an object take control of your life, focus on your own self and let go of those irrational thoughts.
No I was just scared how terribly low it is right now with all the binging I've been doing recently, somehow I've managed to drop over 4kg's in only 2 weeks with 5 binges in that timespan each around 8000 calorie

AdamWW
03-03-2017, 07:31 AM
I'm up 3 pounds in the last week or so.

Finally some progress!! Hope it continues.

Grappa
03-03-2017, 07:34 AM
I'm up 3 pounds in the last week or so.

Finally some progress!! Hope it continues.

Fk yeah!! :D \o/ keep doing!!!

AdamWW
03-03-2017, 08:10 AM
Thanks man, you're one of my inspirations, hope you're doing fine on your own recovery.


Things are going well!! I've been eating more than I have in a LONG time, getting stronger little by little, and my weight is going up :)

However, I know i still need more calories, because when im in full, proper bulk mode, my strength increases FAST. When I do it right, I can add 5-10lb to my squat almost every session... so I need to start eating calorie-dense, high fat/low-volume stuff!

:)


Fk yeah!! :D \o/ keep doing!!!

Thanks bud!! Feeling good !

Vanzero
03-03-2017, 09:09 AM
I am glad u are doing better, and i know well, u are in a good road to recover! Just keep in mind fight with your triggers, and do not let your eating disorder to creep back to your life! Stay strong!

Thanks a lot man, you guys are all amazing :)



Had an upper body workout and something amazing happened...I destroyed it. Managed to get 3x4 @ 50 kg on the bench which is an absolute PR.


Also came home with an AMAZING pump. I'm feeling so energetic lately, and the fact that I'm looking like this at my bodyweight makes me wonder how great another 5kg of muscle will look like in my frame.

AdamWW
03-03-2017, 09:36 AM
Thanks a lot man, you guys are all amazing :)



Had an upper body workout and something amazing happened...I destroyed it. Managed to get 3x4 @ 50 kg on the bench which is an absolute PR.


Also came home with an AMAZING pump. I'm feeling so energetic lately, and the fact that I'm looking like this at my bodyweight makes me wonder how great another 5kg of muscle will look like in my frame.

Keep pushing! You have a TON of room to fill out your frame.

I'm trying to get back to my weight/look in 2012...

trying to go from this (recent photo at 137lb):


http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i364/AWadd618/e18a251e-1ff3-400f-a99a-f0e6a727bab4_zpswgnpqeto.jpg

Back to this (173lb)... Don't judge... it was a costume party!:

http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i364/AWadd618/1915457_621296235460_1672472_n_zpszdtmqfok.jpg



Man I miss being that strong :)

sonnydfrizzy
03-03-2017, 10:58 AM
Adam, you could not lift and gain 2-3 pounds a week to 170 and look really good and feel a helluva lot better than you probably do now.

Keep pushing man!

Grappa
03-03-2017, 01:58 PM
Well if every1 post this i am going to share this too :D First well... That is how u look when u are hours before death. The 2nd is my current look, and there is almost 20 kg diff between this pics. It is kinda my 1 year into recovery, at March 9 will be my 1 year "anniversary". Hope this will motivate some of u to no matter how hard you struggle, you have to EAT to gain weight. If u eat more, there is no problem. I have had massive "binges", overindugle during christmas, etc. You should NOT be afraid of food, food is your fuel, eat to perform better, and the most important thing: eat to RECOVER!

AdamWW
03-03-2017, 05:53 PM
Adam, you could not lift and gain 2-3 pounds a week to 170 and look really good and feel a helluva lot better than you probably do now.

Keep pushing man!

No doubt!


Well if every1 post this i am going to share this too :D First well... That is how u look when u are hours before death. The 2nd is my current look, and there is almost 20 kg diff between this pics. It is kinda my 1 year into recovery, at March 9 will be my 1 year "anniversary". Hope this will motivate some of u to no matter how hard you struggle, you have to EAT to gain weight. If u eat more, there is no problem. I have had massive "binges", overindugle during christmas, etc. You should NOT be afraid of food, food is your fuel, eat to perform better, and the most important thing: eat to RECOVER!

Dude... you look like you gained almost no body fat... that's crazy... wow.

Oatmealman99
03-03-2017, 06:17 PM
Well if every1 post this i am going to share this too :D First well... That is how u look when u are hours before death. The 2nd is my current look, and there is almost 20 kg diff between this pics. It is kinda my 1 year into recovery, at March 9 will be my 1 year "anniversary". Hope this will motivate some of u to no matter how hard you struggle, you have to EAT to gain weight. If u eat more, there is no problem. I have had massive "binges", overindugle during christmas, etc. You should NOT be afraid of food, food is your fuel, eat to perform better, and the most important thing: eat to RECOVER!WOW, man you look amazing now!!!

Grappa
03-04-2017, 02:26 AM
No doubt!



Dude... you look like you gained almost no body fat... that's crazy... wow.


I have gained, keep in mind for 4 months i have done nothing just eat my face off, and play video games. M yonly activity was to get down to the supermarket to buy cookies. :D Once i have started lifting i have gained 8 kg in 7 months, but i have gained the majority of my weight during that 4 month period. My body just recomped, and i am glad i have an awesome med team, cuz every time my intake becomes my maintenance they bump it up to avoid further recomping, so i can gain fat/muscle. Cuz to bee honest, i do not want to get leaner, and i know well i still have to gain more fat.

Vanzero
03-04-2017, 04:19 AM
Well if every1 post this i am going to share this too :D First well... That is how u look when u are hours before death. The 2nd is my current look, and there is almost 20 kg diff between this pics. It is kinda my 1 year into recovery, at March 9 will be my 1 year "anniversary". Hope this will motivate some of u to no matter how hard you struggle, you have to EAT to gain weight. If u eat more, there is no problem. I have had massive "binges", overindugle during christmas, etc. You should NOT be afraid of food, food is your fuel, eat to perform better, and the most important thing: eat to RECOVER!

Dude, congratulations. You look awesome and, more importantly, a lot healthier than before.


I still struggle with the bolded part, I'm focusing way too much on "healthy foods" does anyone have some tips about introducing some "dirtier" foods (I hate that term but you know, junk, high fat foods, etc.)

Bonnappe
03-04-2017, 06:37 AM
@Grappa looking real good dude! Keep it up!

Depression hitting me really hard today, I would just like to sit in dark and binge on all the junkfood but if I were to do so I would gain tons of fat and then I'd be even more depressed, life just seems so worthless right now without any other hobbies than gym and with close to no friends. My life basically revolves around lifting and eating and it just makes me so depressed I'm slowly starting to dislike lifting and would just want to binge all the time

Can't find any enjoyment in life at all (other than my binges with junkfood) and seeing people happily living their lives around me just makes it more depressing

AdamWW
03-04-2017, 08:12 AM
I have gained, keep in mind for 4 months i have done nothing just eat my face off, and play video games. M yonly activity was to get down to the supermarket to buy cookies. :D Once i have started lifting i have gained 8 kg in 7 months, but i have gained the majority of my weight during that 4 month period. My body just recomped, and i am glad i have an awesome med team, cuz every time my intake becomes my maintenance they bump it up to avoid further recomping, so i can gain fat/muscle. Cuz to bee honest, i do not want to get leaner, and i know well i still have to gain more fat.

Well either way you've clearly come a long way. Very inspiring.


Dude, congratulations. You look awesome and, more importantly, a lot healthier than before.


I still struggle with the bolded part, I'm focusing way too much on "healthy foods" does anyone have some tips about introducing some "dirtier" foods (I hate that term but you know, junk, high fat foods, etc.)

Well, I think the first 'trick' is to get the idea of 'bad' and 'good' food out of your head. If that means slowly adding in foods you feel are 'junk' so you can prove to yourself they don't hurt you, maybe that's the best way.

You don't have to go full-on right away and eat 100 cookies or candy bars in one sitting... maybe just start adding in more of them in small doses to prove to yourself they're just calories like anything else.


@Grappa looking real good dude! Keep it up!

Depression hitting me really hard today, I would just like to sit in dark and binge on all the junkfood but if I were to do so I would gain tons of fat and then I'd be even more depressed, life just seems so worthless right now without any other hobbies than gym and with close to no friends. My life basically revolves around lifting and eating and it just makes me so depressed I'm slowly starting to dislike lifting and would just want to binge all the time

Can't find any enjoyment in life at all (other than my binges with junkfood) and seeing people happily living their lives around me just makes it more depressing

Sorry to hear of your struggles bud...

I honestly think your depression and lack of appreciation/excitement about life has to do with your malcontent around your ED. It's damn near impossible to be happy and look forward to hobbies when you have something like a severe ED hovering over you all the time.

I know for myself, when I get super distracted with food and the thought of restriction or binging, it is basically impossible for me to focus, and because I cannot focus i have no interest. Do you think maybe that's happening to you?

I ask because, there was likely a time in your life where you DID see enjoyment in things, so capability is there. The only difference now is you are constantly distracted from finding the value, enjoyment/pleasure in other things because you cannot immerse yourself in them fully. THAT is why other people are laughing, smiling, and having fun: they aren't constantly being nagged by this little inner voice telling them to focus on something else.

The depression you feel may simply come from an inability to relate, a kind of envy in a way, because everyone else seems so carefree without that stupid ED voice exerting it's power over them.

Mindfulness is a great tool... it might be something that could really help you out a lot.

Grappa
03-04-2017, 08:29 AM
Well either way you've clearly come a long way. Very inspiring.



Well, I think the first 'trick' is to get the idea of 'bad' and 'good' food out of your head. If that means slowly adding in foods you feel are 'junk' so you can prove to yourself they don't hurt you, maybe that's the best way.

You don't have to go full-on right away and eat 100 cookies or candy bars in one sitting... maybe just start adding in more of them in small doses to prove to yourself they're just calories like anything else.



Sorry to hear of your struggles bud...

I honestly think your depression and lack of appreciation/excitement about life has to do with your malcontent around your ED. It's damn near impossible to be happy and look forward to hobbies when you have something like a severe ED hovering over you all the time.

I know for myself, when I get super distracted with food and the thought of restriction or binging, it is basically impossible for me to focus, and because I cannot focus i have no interest. Do you think maybe that's happening to you?

I ask because, there was likely a time in your life where you DID see enjoyment in things, so capability is there. The only difference now is you are constantly distracted from finding the value, enjoyment/pleasure in other things because you cannot immerse yourself in them fully. THAT is why other people are laughing, smiling, and having fun: they aren't constantly being nagged by this little inner voice telling them to focus on something else.

The depression you feel may simply come from an inability to relate, a kind of envy in a way, because everyone else seems so carefree without that stupid ED voice exerting it's power over them.

Mindfulness is a great tool... it might be something that could really help you out a lot.

Oh snap i have forgot to add that i have gained 10 kg in the first 4 months. That missing from the beginning of my comment :D

Grappa
03-04-2017, 08:30 AM
Dude, congratulations. You look awesome and, more importantly, a lot healthier than before.


I still struggle with the bolded part, I'm focusing way too much on "healthy foods" does anyone have some tips about introducing some "dirtier" foods (I hate that term but you know, junk, high fat foods, etc.)

Uhm my advice if u crave them eat it. I do not know if u are living on your own, or with your parents, but if u live with your parents just let them cook for you. It is an instinc, your parents know how to feed you, trust me :)

AdamWW
03-04-2017, 08:33 AM
Uhm my advice if u crave them eat it. I do not know if u are living on your own, or with your parents, but if u live with your parents just let them cook for you. It is an instinc, your parents know how to feed you, trust me :)

A good idea if he can commit to not questioning their food selection. It's definitely easier to eat freely when you have no way to calculate calories, etc.

AdamWW
03-04-2017, 08:42 AM
@Bonnappe

I also am curious how you feel about sensations of hunger and sensations of being full.

In my experience with my ED, and I know this is true of many who have restrict/binge cycles (perhaps not even true binges, but restriction followed by periods where they choose to just stuff themselves until they're sick on purpose), you get used to the feelings of HUNGRY and FULL.

Most people in the world who are 'normal eaters' do not LIKE feeling hungry or feeling very over full. Yes, sometimes people have to go hungry because of lack of food access, and sometimes people eat too much in a meal for whatever reason, but everything usually balances out. Because they simply trust their hunger cues, 'normal' eaters don't feel distracted all the time or disconnected from the important things in life... they can enjoy things because they're not wondering about how dizzy they might feel before they can allow themselves to have a single carrot, until later when they can FINALLY let lose and eat pints of ice cream and cookies and candy until they want to burst.

Don't get me wrong, I myself right now am eating huge amounts of food, but i'm NOT making myself ill. I get extreme hunger because of my own mistakes... and in time it'll go away. But what I do is eat to satisfaction for that sitting... and if 10-20minutes goes by and my stomach gets that hunger ache... I go back and eat more. It's not about starving and then stuffing, it's about being mindful of your hunger and topping off the tank whenever you feel you should.

It sounds like your binges are basically planned... you have a schedule of sorts wherein it allows you to look forward to downing WAY too much instead of just eating until you're done, and then listening to your body. There's no reason you have to make yourself sick, the idea is just not to starve yourself. See the difference? Being satisfied isn't the same as filling your gut until you can't stand the look of food.

For a while, yes, it may take copious amounts of food for your body to adjust, but it gets better. Binges, from what I understand, usually happen because you are restricting in some way or even just thinking about restricting. You need to show your body and mind that you're not going to binge... and the way to do that is to consistently feed yourself adequate energy... sometimes maybe it's more than others, but you cannot let yourself go hungry because you're hoarding calories for a binge later on...

I strongly feel like your lack of happiness/motivation comes because you're constantly thinking about food during periods of restriction and thus your only anticipation is for the binge later on.

Bonnappe
03-04-2017, 08:59 AM
@AdamWW

About hunger and being full, I haven't felt hungry in +3 years now, it all started when I first tried intermittent fasting, after few days of IF, I no longer got hungry and it has been like that ever since, although I did eat ''normally'' (3-4 meals a day) for a long while after that, nope, still haven't felt hungry since then

I do get full when I really eat a lot in one sitting. Satiated? Physically everytime after I finish a meal, mentally if I could, I would stuff myself until I couldn't literally breathe.

Yes, my binges are basically planned, I eat 2 days pre binge around 1000 kcals and then gorge myself with junkfood worth of 8000 - 10 000 kcals and then I basically repeat the process. 2 days low calorie -> on the third day binge -> 2 days low calorie -> on the sixth day binge etc. I just enjoy them way too much to be able to quit

Basically I live to binge eat, which in itself sounds absolutely horrible (which it is), exercise and restrict my food intake in order to binge

And because I never feel hungry it's very easy for me to go a full day without eating and then slam a 1000 calorie meal and go to bed

I just think the only way to get out of this is to focus on something else rather than food / fitness be it making more new friends or starting a new hobby but I can't for the life of me figure out how to do either nor do I have any interest to start a new hobby and it just makes me sad and keeps me continuing my endless cycle

Strength93
03-04-2017, 12:51 PM
@Bonnappe

As you know I struggle with the same binging behavior as you, but it has gotten a lot better because my study takes so much time from me, that I litterally don't have the time to plan out binges. So for me it has definetely helped to get something else to focus on --> my master's degree.

Grappa
03-04-2017, 02:00 PM
@AdamWW

About hunger and being full, I haven't felt hungry in +3 years now, it all started when I first tried intermittent fasting, after few days of IF, I no longer got hungry and it has been like that ever since, although I did eat ''normally'' (3-4 meals a day) for a long while after that, nope, still haven't felt hungry since then

I do get full when I really eat a lot in one sitting. Satiated? Physically everytime after I finish a meal, mentally if I could, I would stuff myself until I couldn't literally breathe.

Yes, my binges are basically planned, I eat 2 days pre binge around 1000 kcals and then gorge myself with junkfood worth of 8000 - 10 000 kcals and then I basically repeat the process. 2 days low calorie -> on the third day binge -> 2 days low calorie -> on the sixth day binge etc. I just enjoy them way too much to be able to quit

Basically I live to binge eat, which in itself sounds absolutely horrible (which it is), exercise and restrict my food intake in order to binge

And because I never feel hungry it's very easy for me to go a full day without eating and then slam a 1000 calorie meal and go to bed

I just think the only way to get out of this is to focus on something else rather than food / fitness be it making more new friends or starting a new hobby but I can't for the life of me figure out how to do either nor do I have any interest to start a new hobby and it just makes me sad and keeps me continuing my endless cycle

Jesus. So let make something clear, you just like to eat a lot, and that's it. Have u tried eat a lot every day? If you are nourishing your body your cravings will be really minimal. For example if i crave something, like a cake, or some junk food for the taste, i go and get it. It is simple. I really do not see why it is good to make yourself sick. I remember when i had that massive overeating phase i felt like crap, almost throwed up every day. But i had to keep going in order to experience what is too much and what is too little. But yeah my situation is a bit different cuz at that point i was always hungry, no matter how much i have eaten, a stupidly big meal felt like a snack, i remember i have eaten a 42 cm pizza by myself and really satiation wise it felt like i have eaten some nuts or crackers.

AdamWW
03-04-2017, 07:13 PM
Today I lived like someone without an ED. It was great.

Just 6 hours of golf and hanging with folks in my league without to constant preoccupation with thoughts on food and nutrition and calorie burn/intake.

Don't know what else to say other than that. I don't think I thought about food more like a couple times, and only because I got hungry walking up and down hills for an entire day. So I ate when I wanted / needed and that was the end of it, because I felt like I needed it.

Seemed like being 16 again in terms of just living and not worrying. Best thing is, I get to do it again tomorrow.

Social life / hobbies for the win i guess!

Just sharing some good news for those of you in hard times with your problems. You will have good days!

I have a big dinner to cook so gotta jet. Fuel for tomorrow's match, after which I'm going to see Logan with more friends and have dinner beforehand. Business weekend I've had in a while, and it's been very effective in taking my mind of ANYTHING body image or ED related.


Stay strong all... you can do this! :)

AdamWW
03-05-2017, 08:42 AM
Adding to the above... I went through my YouTube account and unsubscribed to all the eating-related channels I have on there (ie - the ones where people do challenges, cheat days, etc).

Now that I'm eating more... honestly... the idea of watching those completely lost it's appeal...

Go figure!

MosToorani
03-05-2017, 10:13 PM
Just an update from my trip.

Came back home two nights ago, weighed-in yesterday morning and it seemed that from my 3-4 days trip, i've lost 3.1 KGs.. I'm going to assume majority has been just water weight .. Anyways, it was an amazing trip and the Guns N' Roses concert was fantastic!

So what did I do with my low weigh-in? Overate by 300 calories (yah, meaningless amount but whatever, baby steps!).

I've upped my fat intake, through almonds.

Additionally, I'll be hitting the gym today after work which I'm quite excited about!

P.s I've religiously read through all the previous posts while I was away and it helped quite a bit!

MT

AdamWW
03-06-2017, 09:59 AM
Just an update from my trip.

Came back home two nights ago, weighed-in yesterday morning and it seemed that from my 3-4 days trip, i've lost 3.1 KGs.. I'm going to assume majority has been just water weight .. Anyways, it was an amazing trip and the Guns N' Roses concert was fantastic!

So what did I do with my low weigh-in? Overate by 300 calories (yah, meaningless amount but whatever, baby steps!).

I've upped my fat intake, through almonds.

Additionally, I'll be hitting the gym today after work which I'm quite excited about!

P.s I've religiously read through all the previous posts while I was away and it helped quite a bit!

MT

This is very concerning to be honest.

I don't know how that could happen if you didn't restrict or go hungry.

I think if I lost that much weight in a few days, I'd take 3-4 days OFF work and just rest, stretch, and eat.....your body is literally eating itself away.

MosToorani
03-06-2017, 10:21 AM
This is very concerning to be honest.

I don't know how that could happen if you didn't restrict or go hungry.

I think if I lost that much weight in a few days, I'd take 3-4 days OFF work and just rest, stretch, and eat.....your body is literally eating itself away.

I know what you mean ..

We were just walking a lot of everyday and eating 2-3 meals a day ..

Nevertheless, I hit the gym today, and although strength has gone down from the last session (roughly 10 days ago), it just felt good to be back.. You know what I mean? I felt like I had the desire and motivation to actually go to the gym and lift some weights .. it truly felt good!

I took a mindful decision of reducing the amount of 'walking' in order to maintain/gain strength at the gym. Although that decision MIGHT be detrimental to my back (herniated disc operation), I'll assess how I feel in the coming days/weeks and see if that decision was smart or not lol.

Good night lads!

MT

Bonnappe
03-06-2017, 10:33 AM
This is very concerning to be honest.

I don't know how that could happen if you didn't restrict or go hungry.

I think if I lost that much weight in a few days, I'd take 3-4 days OFF work and just rest, stretch, and eat.....your body is literally eating itself away.
Amazing trip with friends >>>>>> weight loss / gain, you can always lose weight or gain, fun opportunities with friends not so much, enjoy them while they last

AdamWW
03-06-2017, 10:47 AM
I know what you mean ..

We were just walking a lot of everyday and eating 2-3 meals a day ..

Nevertheless, I hit the gym today, and although strength has gone down from the last session (roughly 10 days ago), it just felt good to be back.. You know what I mean? I felt like I had the desire and motivation to actually go to the gym and lift some weights .. it truly felt good!

I took a mindful decision of reducing the amount of 'walking' in order to maintain/gain strength at the gym. Although that decision MIGHT be detrimental to my back (herniated disc operation), I'll assess how I feel in the coming days/weeks and see if that decision was smart or not lol.

Good night lads!

MT

Can you honestly say you didn't intentionally restrict your eating or calories in some way? If so.. then OK... but 3kg (or over 6 pounds) in a single trip like that is a huge amount to lose without some kind of restriction.

If so, then OK... but yeah... just concerning... just be honest with yourself, etc.

Hope all is well!

AdamWW
03-06-2017, 10:48 AM
Amazing trip with friends >>>>>> weight loss / gain, you can always lose weight or gain, fun opportunities with friends not so much, enjoy them while they last

Yes, enjoying life is more important. I'm simply saying that kind of lose is extremely rapid and unlikely without deliberate restriction. If he didn't restrict, then OK... but it's just concerning.

Grappa
03-06-2017, 12:16 PM
Can you honestly say you didn't intentionally restrict your eating or calories in some way? If so.. then OK... but 3kg (or over 6 pounds) in a single trip like that is a huge amount to lose without some kind of restriction.

If so, then OK... but yeah... just concerning... just be honest with yourself, etc.

Hope all is well!

Well if your breakfast is 400 gr of carrots and a protein bar. it is possible...