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Jvalexc
12-04-2016, 06:14 AM
I know bulking is about eating more and eating clean but it seems like a fine line between bulking and getting fat. I would really like to keep my abs in the process of bulking, any help would be appreciated, thanks!

Gxp23
12-04-2016, 06:15 AM
I know bulking is about eating more and eating clean but it seems like a fine line between bulking and getting fat. I would really like to keep my abs in the process of bulking, any help would be appreciated, thanks!

Eating clean? No. You can gain weight without turning into a fat slob without eating "clean". The idea is to eat more yes, but how much more you eat will dictate how your body stores that extra energy.

Shureshock
12-04-2016, 06:38 AM
Take it slow, eat at a slight surplus and lift, 2lb a month is a good place to start. You are going to gain a little extra fat, its a part of bulking.

NotThereYet25
12-04-2016, 08:41 AM
Limit weight gain to ~1-2 pounds per month and make sure you get consistently stronger on your lifts.

magician27
12-04-2016, 11:02 AM
I know bulking is about eating more and eating clean but it seems like a fine line between bulking and getting fat. I would really like to keep my abs in the process of bulking, any help would be appreciated, thanks!

eating clean barely matters. need to eat a small surplus of calories if you want to minimize fat gains. but you wont keep your abs for too long anyway. once you gain 5-6 lbs fat they will start fading away

Fran1211
12-04-2016, 12:10 PM
lean bulking is the way to go...just eat ~10% over your maintenance (roughly between 200 and 400 extra calories). You won't get much fat and your muscle growth will be slow, nice and controlled

kennyreid95
12-04-2016, 06:43 PM
I know bulking is about eating more and eating clean but it seems like a fine line between bulking and getting fat. I would really like to keep my abs in the process of bulking, any help would be appreciated, thanks!

Ok dude, First off It's better to do clean bulk than to dirty bulk and over do it. I am in clean bulking phase myself. I eat healthy bulking foods like peanut butter or milk for example. It is Not good idea to dirty bulk on foods like oreos or junk food. You can bulk on fast food but don't over do it watch the carbs intake ;)

DGMan99
12-04-2016, 07:25 PM
Ok dude, First off It's better to do clean bulk than to dirty bulk and over do it. I am in clean bulking phase myself. I eat healthy bulking foods like peanut butter or milk for example. It is Not good idea to dirty bulk on foods like oreos or junk food. You can bulk on fast food but don't over do it watch the carbs intake ;)

Whether or not you eat Oreos, fast food, or peanut butter, whether or not you drink milk and the amount of carbs you consume doesn't determine if your bulk is "clean" or "dirty".

The size of your caloric surplus does.

HamzaZaidAS
12-05-2016, 12:26 AM
Sometimes, you just need to stop worrying about "Fat" when bulking.. whether we like it or not we will add some sort of fat when bulking, even if it's done eating clean.. it's the caloric surplus that does it.

The way I see it, is you can add some fat, without having to worry about it, as you can easily lose it once you start cutting.

Don't worry too much about this, getting over this fact was the only thing that actually helped me put on proper muscle mass!

kennyreid95
12-21-2016, 06:14 AM
Whether or not you eat Oreos, fast food, or peanut butter, whether or not you drink milk and the amount of carbs you consume doesn't determine if your bulk is "clean" or "dirty".

The size of your caloric surplus does.

So what you're saying is all that matters when it comes to bulking is caloric surplus or calorie intake?

Mrpb
12-21-2016, 06:17 AM
So what you're saying is all that matters when it comes to bulking is caloric surplus or calorie intake?

Within reason yes.

And obviously you do need sufficient macros, micronutrients and fiber in your diet.

Strawng
12-21-2016, 06:19 AM
eating clean barely matters. need to eat a small surplus of calories if you want to minimize fat gains. but you wont keep your abs for too long anyway. once you gain 5-6 lbs fat they will start fading away
This is not necessarily true. I've kept my abs thru every bulk I've ever done. It all depends where you start and how lean your bulk actually is. Edit: Saw Avi, in OP's case this is probably true.

juggernaut74ia
12-21-2016, 06:55 AM
So what you're saying is all that matters when it comes to bulking is caloric surplus or calorie intake?

No...he said "eating clean" doesn't matter....and he's correct.

No one is suggesting a diet of 100% Oreos, fast food, and ice cream. But they can absolutely be fit in moderation into a clean bulk diet (for that matter they can also fit into a cutting diet).

siroko
12-21-2016, 07:28 AM
Whether or not you eat Oreos, fast food, or peanut butter, whether or not you drink milk and the amount of carbs you consume doesn't determine if your bulk is "clean" or "dirty".

The size of your caloric surplus does.

It is not true.
The myth about "kcal" oveconsumption to bulk is just a gross oversimplification, probably made up so that beginners don't get too crazy and focused on their diet.

1. If your diet lacks fibers, vitamins, omega 3, you will have trouble recovering and digesting well enough to endure a typical hard bulking workout / diet.
2. If you bulk with high glycemic index foods (like oreos, fast food), your body will store most of what you eat into fat (high gi food => lots of glycogen released in the blood at the same time => muscles can't absorb enough => thus glycogen will be stored in the liver and as fat).

In conclusion, you have to bulk with mostly low / moderate GI foods. And don't forget your fibers and vitamines.

Mrpb
12-21-2016, 07:37 AM
It is not true.

Actually what he said is true.

Small surplus = clean bulking.

Large surplus = dirty bulking.



2. If you bulk with high glycemic index foods (like oreos, fast food), your body will store most of what you eat into fat (high gi food => lots of glycogen released in the blood at the same time => muscles can't absorb enough => thus glycogen will be stored in the liver and as fat).

No, that's not the way it works. The glycemic index does NOT determine how much fat you gain.

Oatmealman99
12-21-2016, 07:58 AM
Actually what he said is true.

Small surplus = clean bulking.

Large surplus = dirty bulking.



No, that's not the way it works. The glycemic index does NOT determine how much fat you gain.Nor does the GI index matter, unless you're a diabetic.

siroko
12-21-2016, 08:06 AM
Actually what he said is true.

Small surplus = clean bulking.

Large surplus = dirty bulking.



No, that's not the way it works. The glycemic index does NOT determine how much fat you gain.

Basically, high GI food => blood glucose peak => insuline peak to sweep glucose into the body's cells => fat (because muscles receptors and liver saturate very quickly).
They're tons of articles and informations supporting this. It's even part of my country's highschool program.

If you disagree, please also present evidences or demonstrations, I'm interested in learning more.

Mrpb
12-21-2016, 08:21 AM
Basically, high GI food => blood glucose peak => insuline peak to sweep glucose into the body's cells => fat (because muscles receptors and liver saturate very quickly).
They're tons of articles and informations supporting this. It's even part of my country's highschool program.

If you disagree, please also present evidences or demonstrations, I'm interested in learning more.

Alan Aragon explains it well: http://www.prevention.com/eatclean/glycemic-index

AdamWW
12-21-2016, 08:33 AM
Basically, high GI food => blood glucose peak => insuline peak to sweep glucose into the body's cells => fat (because muscles receptors and liver saturate very quickly).
They're tons of articles and informations supporting this. It's even part of my country's highschool program.

If you disagree, please also present evidences or demonstrations, I'm interested in learning more.

Join Date: Nov 2016... 11 posts and already in the red.

Off to a good start.

juggernaut74ia
12-21-2016, 08:36 AM
Basically, high GI food => blood glucose peak => insuline peak to sweep glucose into the body's cells => fat (because muscles receptors and liver saturate very quickly).
They're tons of articles and informations supporting this. It's even part of my country's highschool program.

If you disagree, please also present evidences or demonstrations, I'm interested in learning more.

Does your country's high school program also teach you that the burden of proof in a debate is on those making the claim...it's not up to others to disprove it.

That said, Mrpb's link is one I recommend you read before your country's highschool program leads you astray again.

Mrpb
12-21-2016, 08:37 AM
Basically, high GI food => blood glucose peak => insuline peak to sweep glucose into the body's cells => fat (because muscles receptors and liver saturate very quickly).
They're tons of articles and informations supporting this. It's even part of my country's highschool program.

If you disagree, please also present evidences or demonstrations, I'm interested in learning more.

Here are two studies where the higher GI condition actually lost more fat than the lower GI condition:

https://examine.com/nutrition/really-low-fat-vs-somewhat-lower-carb/
http://www.thenutritionwonk.com/single-post/2016/05/02/Is-the-Insulin-Theory-of-Obesity-Over

siroko
12-21-2016, 09:56 AM
Here are two studies where the higher GI condition actually lost more fat than the lower GI condition:

...


It's good to see there are conflicting views on the matter.
But these are not scientific studies, but non-reviewed opinions.

Here are some scientifc studies showing a clear link between high GI foods and obesity.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19029198 (rats fed with same kCal but high GI foood have more visceral fat and adipose tissues => fatter)
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20227000 (same as above)
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3949335/ (children diet analyzed and clear link betwee high GI food and obesity is established)
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12081852

AdamWW
12-21-2016, 10:03 AM
It's good to see there are conflicting views on the matter.
But these are not scientific studies, but non-reviewed opinions.

Here are some scientifc studies showing a clear link between high GI foods and obesity.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19029198 (rats fed with same kCal but high GI foood have more visceral fat and adipose tissues => fatter)
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20227000 (same as above)
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3949335/ (children diet analyzed and clear link betwee high GI food and obesity is established)
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12081852

Note: there's also a link between breathing dying. it's been proven that people who don't breath cannot die. Only people who are able to process air can die.

in other words, you're not proving a casual effect, you're oversimplifying the issue.

Mrpb
12-21-2016, 10:15 AM
But these are not scientific studies, but non-reviewed opinions.

No, they are articles about peer reviewed scientific studies. And unlike your references they are protein matched and conducted in metabolic ward.

This is the highest level of evidence.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/07/05/ajcn.116.133561.abstract
http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/abstract/S1550-4131(15)00350-2

blue9steel
12-21-2016, 10:49 AM
My own anecdotal experience has been that the relevance of the GI seemed to vary over time. Initially when I was heavier it seemed to have more impact than it does now that I'm leaner (though not yet particularly lean). In either case it turned out to be a secondary factor less important than calories or macros. I suspect that it has something to do with insulin sensitivity and those with a lot of weight to lose will see a larger, but still pretty small, benefit from paying attention to this.

plantfueledhulk
12-21-2016, 04:06 PM
More plant foods. Avocado and olives are good.

EjnarKolinkar
12-21-2016, 04:47 PM
If you disagree, please also present evidences or demonstrations, I'm interested in learning more.

The burden is on you, and your linked rat studies and childhood obesity info seems to provide little insight into the workings of a height weight proportionate weight trainer who also happens to be human.

Lettuce be cereal, this is a bodybuilding forum. You think you going to saturate my muscles with a cookie? Get serious.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3248697/
The Role of Skeletal Muscle Glycogen Breakdown for Regulation of Insulin Sensitivity by Exercise

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27766133
The Effect of a Moderately Low and High Carbohydrate Intake on Crossfit Performance.


More plant foods. Avocado and olives are good.


The wheat in my waffles comes from plants? Is that OK? My cookies are mostly plants.





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@ OP The way to avoid excessive fat gain is to mass gain sensibly with a moderate surplus. One does not become overly fat over night with this method. If one is gaining too fast after a period, an adjustment is made.

plantfueledhulk
12-21-2016, 05:41 PM
Not ok since they are full of sugar and oil.

An avocado is quite a lot different to a cookie, I'm sure you'll agree. The same way as spam is different to salmon.

Most people do not eat enough plants.


The burden is on you, and your linked rat studies and childhood obesity info seems to provide little insight into the workings of a height weight proportionate weight trainer who also happens to be human.

Lettuce be cereal, this is a bodybuilding forum. You think you going to saturate my muscles with a cookie? Get serious.




The wheat in my waffles comes from plants? Is that OK? My cookies are mostly plants.





----



@ OP The way to avoid excessive fat gain is to mass gain sensibly with a moderate surplus. One does not become overly fat over night with this method. If one is gaining too fast after a period, an adjustment is made.