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A-GAME
10-24-2016, 06:49 PM
The US is dominated by a rich and powerful elite.

So concludes a recent study by Princeton University Prof Martin Gilens and Northwestern University Prof Benjamin I Page.

This is not news, you say.

Perhaps, but the two professors have conducted exhaustive research to try to present data-driven support for this conclusion. Here's how they explain it:

Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organised groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on US government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence.

In English: the wealthy few move policy, while the average American has little power.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

I'm sure most of you already knew this was the case. I still thought it was worth reading. Link to study inside.

Brossey
10-24-2016, 07:09 PM
And with Clinton Wikileaks revelations, this stuff is even more substantiated.

StiffSproles
10-24-2016, 07:15 PM
Of course.

Since government has their hands in the media and the information disseminated to the general public, not only do people not really have a choice who they vote for (they are programmed to vote a certain way due to bombardment of a specific message against one candidate and for the other), it's usually the political elite that OP says (i.e. established politicians).

Like the poster above said, Wikileaks all but confirms this. Just from this election cycle, you can see what happens when a complete outsider tries to run for office: He or she will be ostracized and attacked by the biased media 24/7 and bring up all kinds of irrelevancies to de-legitimize said candidate. If a multi billionaire, super famous individual with such star power and charisma as Trump can't overthrow the establishment, nobody ever will.

This is our one last chance, boyos.

RougeProdigy
10-24-2016, 07:15 PM
The richest 400 Americans have more wealth than the bottom 50% of Americans combined.

The rich need to pay their fair share.

Venom08
10-24-2016, 07:22 PM
Throughout history, ALL republics devolve into oligarchies because those in government create laws and regulations for the sole purpose of forcing corporations and businesses to pay them off in order to be exempt from said laws. It's a dirty cycle, but no, we do not live in a democracy at all.

Trump bringing in term limits would solve a ton of our problems tbh. Pray he gets elected and not Hillary.

NYPat
10-24-2016, 07:24 PM
The richest 400 Americans have more wealth than the bottom 50% of Americans combined.

The rich need to pay their fair share.

They already do.

But they need to pay more to their workers so the entire economy doesn't have to be propped up by low interest.

$15 min wage helps.

StiffSproles
10-24-2016, 07:25 PM
They already do.

But they need to pay more to their workers so the entire economy doesn't have to be propped up by low interest.

$15 min wage helps.

You want corporations to pay more to their employees, while stifling growth with high corporate taxes? U wot m8?

RougeProdigy
10-24-2016, 07:25 PM
Throughout history, ALL republics devolve into oligarchies because those in government create laws and regulations for the sole purpose of forcing corporations and businesses to pay them off in order to be exempt from said laws. It's a dirty cycle, but no, we do not live in a democracy at all.

Trump bringing in term limits would solve a ton of our problems tbh. Pray he gets elected and not Hillary.
There used to be a 90% tax rate for the highest earners in our county. I agree special interests need to go, but that's not nearly the root of the problem.

StiffSproles
10-24-2016, 07:28 PM
There used to be a 90% tax rate for the highest earners in our county. I agree special interests need to go, but that's not nearly the root of the problem.

What would a 90% tax rate actually do? You realize that the national debt today vs. 100 years ago is drastically different? Taxing the rich 100% won't even make a dent in anything relevant. Heck, all you will do is stifle innovation and economic growth. Today's dynamics =/= the dynamics of the past.

RougeProdigy
10-24-2016, 07:40 PM
What would a 90% tax rate actually do? You realize that the national debt today vs. 100 years ago is drastically different? Taxing the rich 100% won't even make a dent in anything relevant. Heck, all you will do is stifle innovation and economic growth. Today's dynamics =/= the dynamics of the past.

Not true at all. Debt after ww2 was extremely high, but went down in the 60's and 70's. It only went up after trickle down economics and the Bush Wars.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/11/the-long-story-of-us-debt-from-1790-to-2011-in-1-little-chart/265185/

Higher taxes would do a lot. I'm not advocating for 90%, but certainly more than the 16-20% they currently pay (in some cases none).

There are so many projects across the country that could be funded. Even in my own city they are trying to build new schools with a sales tax. Seriously a sales tax. Why not fund it with a slightly higher tax on the rich instead? That's where the reform needs to come from (I understand there are different levels of government, but you get my point).

A-GAME
10-24-2016, 07:42 PM
Throughout history, ALL republics devolve into oligarchies because those in government create laws and regulations for the sole purpose of forcing corporations and businesses to pay them off in order to be exempt from said laws. It's a dirty cycle, but no, we do not live in a democracy at all.

Trump bringing in term limits would solve a ton of our problems tbh. Pray he gets elected and not Hillary.

The thing that always made me lol about US politics is lobbyists. BRB legal bribes, zero fuks given. UwotM8?


Of course.

Since government has their hands in the media and the information disseminated to the general public, not only do people not really have a choice who they vote for (they are programmed to vote a certain way due to bombardment of a specific message against one candidate and for the other), it's usually the political elite that OP says (i.e. established politicians).

Like the poster above said, Wikileaks all but confirms this. Just from this election cycle, you can see what happens when a complete outsider tries to run for office: He or she will be ostracized and attacked by the biased media 24/7 and bring up all kinds of irrelevancies to de-legitimize said candidate. If a multi billionaire, super famous individual with such star power and charisma as Trump can't overthrow the establishment, nobody ever will.

This is our one last chance, boyos.

They can brainwash the masses as much as they want, but the election is for show and only gives the illusion that you live in a democracy. Ultimately, the average American has no say in what happens in the country, because special interest groups and the rich elite are the ones calling the shots. In some cases, they are writing the laws, and politicians are passing them. It's incredible.

http://journalistsresource.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Influence-of-U.S.-citizens-and-elites-horizontal.jpg

Vote Trump and #MAGA. This is the last chance, then its tyranny all the way. You may think such comments are hyperbole, but the world we live in will be radically different if this cancer isn't stopped soon.

89FoxBody
10-24-2016, 07:44 PM
If Hillary wins, the same 3 families will have controlled the country for the last 32 years.

StiffSproles
10-24-2016, 07:46 PM
Not true at all. Debt after ww2 was extremely high, but went down in the 60's and 70's. It only went up after trickle down economics and the Bush Wars.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/11/the-long-story-of-us-debt-from-1790-to-2011-in-1-little-chart/265185/

Higher taxes would do a lot. I'm not advocating for 90%, but certainly more than the 16-20% they currently pay (in some cases none).

There are so many projects across the country that could be funded. Even in my own city they are trying to build new schools with a sales tax. Seriously a sales tax. Why not fund it with a slightly higher tax on the rich instead? That's where the reform needs to come from (I understand there are different levels of government, but you get my point).

Did you even read a single word of my post?

A-GAME
10-24-2016, 07:48 PM
Did you even read a single word of my post?

You know that's a troll account right?

https://twistedconservative.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/keep-calm-and-don-t-feed-the-troll-48.png

Pyrodox11
10-24-2016, 07:51 PM
I didn't think a study was necessary to conclude this. The establishment is the oligarchy.

Fiyero
10-24-2016, 07:52 PM
ITT: Trumpers complain about an oligarchy, but think Russia is a great country.

RougeProdigy
10-24-2016, 07:53 PM
What would a 90% tax rate actually do? You realize that the national debt today vs. 100 years ago is drastically different? Taxing the rich 100% won't even make a dent in anything relevant. Heck, all you will do is stifle innovation and economic growth. Today's dynamics =/= the dynamics of the past.


Did you even read a single word of my post?
I did. I told you what higher taxes on the rich would do. I disproved your claim of debt being drastically different in the past (with sources), and I told you the relevance of higher taxes.

As far as economic growth, the 50's and 60's had strong growth, so it's possible.

Any more questions?

Letthemcome
10-24-2016, 07:54 PM
ITT: Trumpers complain about an oligarchy, but think Russia is a great country.

Trump has already said he doesn't like how the political system in Russia works. So nah. We only like Russia for its closer to traditional values.

A-GAME
10-24-2016, 10:43 PM
ITT: Trumpers complain about an oligarchy, but think Russia is a great country.

Who exactly are you referring to? Nobody has mentioned Russia, and I doubt anybody thinks the Russian political system is good apart from those who benefit from it.

trailwarrior
10-25-2016, 12:22 AM
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Cliffs: "They claim to be super-patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution. They demand free enterprise, but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest. Their final objective toward which all their deceit is directed is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection." - Henry A. Wallace 1944



The next president could select up to 4 new justices and Trump has promised Conservative justices along the lines of Antonin Scalia which will ensure continued corruption by the oligarchs for the next half century...

https://s.graphiq.com/sites/default/files/3019/media/images/_795555_i0.png (https://s.graphiq.com/sites/default/files/3019/media/images/_795555_i0.png)



Nixon had similar opportunity over 40 years ago and he appointed 4 Conservative justices who handed power of our courts to the oligarchs, corrupting politics, destroying the middle class and Conservatives have maintained this control ever since...

http://www.demos.org/sites/default/files/imce/Supreme%20Court%20Big%20Money%20Attacks.png (http://www.demos.org/sites/default/files/imce/Supreme%20Court%20Big%20Money%20Attacks.png)



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Cliffs:
Corporate Manifesto written over 40 years ago by Supreme Court Justice Lewis Powell, at the behest of the US Chamber of Commerce, the 6-page memo, a free-market utopian treatise, called for a money fueled big business makeover of government through corporate control of the media, academia, the pulpit, arts and sciences and destruction of organized labor and consumer protection groups.

The “end game” was business control of law and politics. HEIST’s step by step detail exposes the systemic implementation of Powell’s manifesto culminating in the deregulation of industry, outsourcing of jobs and regressive taxation. All of which led us to the global financial crisis of 2008 and the continued dismantling of the American middle class. Today, politics is the playground of the rich and powerful, with no thought given to the hopes and dreams of ordinary Americans.



Is the US Supreme Court Responsible for Income Inequality?
http://sputniknews.com/us/20160331/1037234994/scotus-income-inequality-wealth-gap.html

http://cdn5.img.sputniknews.com/images/103591/74/1035917471.jpg

New research by a University of Baltimore law professor, published in the Conversation, has revealed that growing US income inequality is the fault of the US Supreme Court, claiming the court’s decisions since the 1970s have created conditions that benefit corporations over individuals.

Professor Michele Gilman states that, with the death of Justice Antonin Scalia, the Obama administration has the perfect opportunity to tilt the scales on what was a 5 to 4 majority against the interests of the working class.