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italianmeatball
06-12-2016, 12:38 PM
I might be on the wrong sort of forum, but I've actually have a question I'm a bit curious to get a body builders view on.

I'm a runner, rather then a body builder, I run between 30 - 50 miles a week various distances, including hi intensity interval training (running hard for short periods of time with recovery in between). I do some core work, but for the most part I run!! I'm not a competative runner, just do it for fun, I'm about 19 minutes for 5k.

I'm just wondering if their are any supplements that people on hear use for building muscle building, that could be very effective for running? I'm looking for something that would give me more energy, allow me to push harder, past the pain barrier and in the longer term increase my speed?

showjo1josh
06-12-2016, 12:51 PM
I'd say a cheap caffeine pill could get the job done in my opinion. If you're just looking for energy then caffeine is your answer. There's some supps on here that are targeted for increased endurance that could help as well but the cheapest and best route is probably just caffeine.

Misctake7
06-12-2016, 01:18 PM
I'd have to agree on a caffeine pill like the poster above mentioned. A lot of preworkout supplements have other ingredients that assist in giving your body a pump. That's not something I'd want doing cardio as your legs will tighten up. Plenty of pre's that just contain stims and little of those pump ingredients, but caffeine pills are cheap and effective imo.

AMeyer9
06-12-2016, 01:20 PM
Beta-Alanine, Creatinol-O-Phosphate, Phosphatidylserine, and Nitrates. Caffeine for energy

italianmeatball
06-12-2016, 01:21 PM
Thanks for the suggestion, it's interesting reading about all these variaties of supplements on here and the sorts of effects they have. I've seen people use expressions, like "it gives insane energy" or "massive pump power" when refering to supplements!!! Always sounds a bit to good to be true, but when you read these things it kind of makes you think, well if it can work for people lifting weights, there's no reason why it wouldn't work for running also. Legs have very big muscles so it makes sense in a way, but I've never heard of runners using body building supplements to make gain.

italianmeatball
06-12-2016, 01:23 PM
Beta-Alanine, Creatinol-O-Phosphate, Phosphatidylserine, and Nitrates. Caffeine for energy

Would I need to purchase all these seperately, or is there an all in one that would contain these as a blend?

italianmeatball
06-12-2016, 01:29 PM
I'd have to agree on a caffeine pill like the poster above mentioned. A lot of preworkout supplements have other ingredients that assist in giving your body a pump. That's not something I'd want doing cardio as your legs will tighten up. Plenty of pre's that just contain stims and little of those pump ingredients, but caffeine pills are cheap and effective imo.

That makes sense, yes definately don't want anything that tightens your legs up, best to be nice and relaxed when running!! Something that gives you a boost, helps you run harder for longer and helps you push past the pain barrier would be good!!

powercage
06-12-2016, 03:33 PM
Glycergrow is probably your best option for distance running

fatboystick
06-12-2016, 05:31 PM
Caffeine and Beta-Alanine would be my suggestion. As far as running, I'd stay away from most PRE's due to aforementioned reasons.

TrainerTone
06-12-2016, 07:04 PM
I'd highly recommend iForce Compete which contains BCAA'S/EAA'S, electrolytes, LCLT and Citrulline Malate. Definitely helps with hydration and endurance which sounds like it would be perfect for your situation.

Rushie
06-12-2016, 10:25 PM
Thanks for the suggestion, it's interesting reading about all these variaties of supplements on here and the sorts of effects they have. I've seen people use expressions, like "it gives insane energy" or "massive pump power" when refering to supplements!!! Always sounds a bit to good to be true,

And it is. You'll only get those expressions from reps or wannabe reps. Don't fall for the hype.

muruku
06-13-2016, 04:33 AM
hello fella runner bruh,

I'm an enduro weenie myself and the recent ones I tried and liked: SAN Megatron (stim free), AEN Steeledge (stim), GAT PMP (stim free)
Didn't get much of a pump in my legs from these but got pretty good energy and focus.

mdritter
06-13-2016, 05:20 AM
For all in one options I'd look to iforce compete and animal juiced aminos..both have bcaas and eaas as well as electrolytes to help recovery and keep hydrated...simple caffeine pill would suffice the energy aspect

mtownballer20
06-13-2016, 05:35 AM
Recently trained for 2 marathons within 2 weeks of each other...

I never took in caffeine directly before any runs, whether that was a 5 miler or a 20 miler. You'll wake up just as your legs will once you warm up and get into the groove. With that said, I did intake gels that had a very minimal amount of caffeine in some of them during my longer runs, I took them for the cals and they just happened to have 20-40mg of caffeine in them. But never would take a preworkout before running.

Caffeine is only necessary morning before race, for the pre race poop - srs.

powercage
06-13-2016, 06:25 AM
No seriously, glycergrow.


Even some sporting competitions wont allow athletes to use glycerol since it gives an unfair hydration advantage. lol

SLynn46
06-13-2016, 06:56 AM
A 19 minute 5k at 6'1" 240lbs is very impressive (impressive at any size, really). Big man is movin'!

I recently trained for and ran my first marathon. What I found to be best for me was a small dose of caffeine (~100mg, which is about a cup of coffee) pre-run because I would run after work and just needed a little extra motivation to get going.

-Creatine Monohydrate: 3-5g per day (doesn't matter when you take it)
-Beta Alanine: 4g per day (can be split into two 2g doses to avoid parasthesia tingles), doesn't have to be taken preworkout

^both ingredients will take several weeks of daily use to build up in your system before beginning to elicit their effects. Creatine will increase your short-term energy via increased ATP production (will especially help with HIIT), and beta-alanine buffers lactic acid via increased Carnosine production.


I, personally, stayed away from taking any pump inducing ingredients before I ran. Agmatine, citrulline, citrulline malate, glycerol monostearate, and nitrates were all no goes pre-run for me. Made the mistake of taking a pump product before a run once and my legs locked up and slowed me down.

RVAPump
06-13-2016, 07:12 AM
Would I need to purchase all these seperately, or is there an all in one that would contain these as a blend?

beta-alanine and LCLT can be found in Gaspari Anavite, our multi-vitamin

I recommend it to runners all the time because of those two ingredients and because BA needs to be supplemented every day and is best done in split doses, which you can do with Anavite but not really with a pre-workout that contains that ingredient

it's just a very convenient way to get those ingredients in, as well as bioavailable forms of vitamins and chelated forms of minerals

VO2Maxima
06-13-2016, 07:52 AM
Carbs most important.

Beta alanine and COP would not hurt. Could also go with some caffeine beforehand.

TheFugitive
06-13-2016, 08:16 AM
OP, BPI Sports Best Amino's with energy would workout perfect for your situation. Each serving contains 100mg's of caffeine + the amino's

http://www.bestpricenutrition.com/media/wysiwyg/bestaminos.jpg

Current Special: Buy 1 Get 1 50% off

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/bpi-sports/best-aminos-wenergy.html

italianmeatball
06-13-2016, 10:47 AM
A 19 minute 5k at 6'1" 240lbs is very impressive (impressive at any size, really). Big man is movin'!

I recently trained for and ran my first marathon. What I found to be best for me was a small dose of caffeine (~100mg, which is about a cup of coffee) pre-run because I would run after work and just needed a little extra motivation to get going.

-Creatine Monohydrate: 3-5g per day (doesn't matter when you take it)
-Beta Alanine: 4g per day (can be split into two 2g doses to avoid parasthesia tingles), doesn't have to be taken preworkout

^both ingredients will take several weeks of daily use to build up in your system before beginning to elicit their effects. Creatine will increase your short-term energy via increased ATP production (will especially help with HIIT), and beta-alanine buffers lactic acid via increased Carnosine production.


I, personally, stayed away from taking any pump inducing ingredients before I ran. Agmatine, citrulline, citrulline malate, glycerol monostearate, and nitrates were all no goes pre-run for me. Made the mistake of taking a pump product before a run once and my legs locked up and slowed me down.

LOL fortunately I'm not 240 lbs anymore but I was several years ago, that was my weight when I first registered an account on here years back. I started running to loose weight but then got the bug and have kept it up religously for the past 3 years. I'm currently weighing in at 210 lbs, which is still pretty big. The lighest I've ever weighed was 182 lbs, but that was when I was around 22 years old, I'm now 36. I would like to drop more weight though, but I can't seem to loose any more with running alone, probably need to address my diet and do other exercise. No doubt I'd get quicker if I was lighter, I did manage to get down to less then 200 when I was really watching my eating, no carbs seems to work for me.

Thanks for all the supplement suggestions, I'll have to try some of the supplements suggested and see what works for me. Sometimes I run at 5am to work so caffeine might help with this as I'm still half asleep for the first couple of miles.

italianmeatball
06-13-2016, 10:51 AM
No seriously, glycergrow.


Even some sporting competitions wont allow athletes to use glycerol since it gives an unfair hydration advantage. lol

I'll check this one out.

italianmeatball
06-13-2016, 10:55 AM
Carbs most important.

Beta alanine and COP would not hurt. Could also go with some caffeine beforehand.

I actually starting to eat a lot of carbs when Marathon training last year, it stopped my weight loss but I needed the energy for the longer runs. Before that I did a high protein, low carb diet and I was loosing weight and still having good energy, but it's hard to maintain, always battling the cravings to eat what I want. I'm trying to get more of a balance at the minute, controlling portion size.

italianmeatball
06-13-2016, 10:59 AM
Recently trained for 2 marathons within 2 weeks of each other...

I never took in caffeine directly before any runs, whether that was a 5 miler or a 20 miler. You'll wake up just as your legs will once you warm up and get into the groove. With that said, I did intake gels that had a very minimal amount of caffeine in some of them during my longer runs, I took them for the cals and they just happened to have 20-40mg of caffeine in them. But never would take a preworkout before running.

Caffeine is only necessary morning before race, for the pre race poop - srs.

I did a marathon last year, also took gels, managed 3.15 so not too bad, but would like a sub 3 next time round, it's hard to keep that pace for 26 miles and I'm not a gifted runner by any stretch!! I take it a preworkout would have a negative affect for running in your opinion?

italianmeatball
06-13-2016, 11:05 AM
hello fella runner bruh,

I'm an enduro weenie myself and the recent ones I tried and liked: SAN Megatron (stim free), AEN Steeledge (stim), GAT PMP (stim free)
Didn't get much of a pump in my legs from these but got pretty good energy and focus.

Thanks for the suggestions my good running brother!! I'll check those ones out. I wouldn't imagine there will be many drugs that do much for pumping your legs other then various illegal substances!!

tastan
06-13-2016, 11:06 AM
I might be on the wrong sort of forum, but I've actually have a question I'm a bit curious to get a body builders view on.

I'm a runner, rather then a body builder, I run between 30 - 50 miles a week various distances, including hi intensity interval training (running hard for short periods of time with recovery in between). I do some core work, but for the most part I run!! I'm not a competative runner, just do it for fun, I'm about 19 minutes for 5k.

I'm just wondering if their are any supplements that people on hear use for building muscle building, that could be very effective for running? I'm looking for something that would give me more energy, allow me to push harder, past the pain barrier and in the longer term increase my speed?

I would say caffeine (which can be consumes in a pill form, also the cheaper way to go), Beta alanine and electrolytes.

italianmeatball
06-13-2016, 11:57 AM
Just been researching peoples suggestions so far :

Glycergrow - Looks intestering, not sure if it's a good one for running, all the review I see mention about it's awesome pumps and it makes your muscles feel like bursting. Some reviews mention good endurance. I'd need to know a bit more.

BPI Sports Amino's - This looks like it could work, seems to be geared towards athletes in general, promotes energy, stamina, endurance and recovery. Has caffeine, beta ananine and electrolytes.

Iforce Compete - Seems similar to BPI Sports Amino's.

Animal Juiced Aminos - Again seems similar to the above 2.

Athletic Edge Steel Edge - Like the above with more stims?

Will have to do a bit more reasearch but at least I've got some ideas.

powercage
06-13-2016, 12:06 PM
Just been researching peoples suggestions so far :

Glycergrow - Looks intestering, not sure if it's a good one for running, all the review I see mention about it's awesome pumps and it makes your muscles feel like bursting. Some reviews mention good endurance. I'd need to know a bit more.

BPI Sports Amino's - This looks like it could work, seems to be geared towards athletes in general, promotes energy, stamina, endurance and recovery. Has caffeine, beta ananine and electrolytes.

Iforce Compete - Seems similar to BPI Sports Amino's.

Animal Juiced Aminos - Again seems similar to the above 2.

Athletic Edge Steel Edge - Like the above with more stims?

Will have to do a bit more reasearch but at least I've got some ideas.




Glycergrow...ignore the online reviews by bodybuilders about the pump etc. That's not relevant to your situation

World class runners and triathletes actually use glycerol in training for a reason. You aren't going to find something more suited for distance running that is legal.

VO2Maxima
06-13-2016, 12:11 PM
I did a marathon last year, also took gels, managed 3.15 so not too bad, but would like a sub 3 next time round, it's hard to keep that pace for 26 miles and I'm not a gifted runner by any stretch!! I take it a preworkout would have a negative affect for running in your opinion?
I've done coffee + bagels before and caffeinated gels during a marathon and that worked fine. I think I used 3 or 4 gels for a 3:02...practice with them during marathon pace workouts to get used to eating them at speed, and also during long runs to figure out how often you'll need them.

italianmeatball
06-13-2016, 12:39 PM
Glycergrow...ignore the online reviews by bodybuilders about the pump etc. That's not relevant to your situation

World class runners and triathletes actually use glycerol in training for a reason. You aren't going to find something more suited for distance running that is legal.

It doesn't appear to taste of anything like any of the other brands recommended, would you just neck it down or mix it with something?

TrainerTone
06-13-2016, 02:21 PM
Just been researching peoples suggestions so far :
Iforce Compete - Seems similar to BPI Sports

iForce Compete is caffeine free but you can feel the effects from the first dose.

Calroid
06-13-2016, 04:17 PM
I personally find BPI MR1 Vortex to be very useful for cardio. It's my go to cardio pre.

powercage
06-13-2016, 05:00 PM
It doesn't appear to taste of anything like any of the other brands recommended, would you just neck it down or mix it with something?either

Mixes well in anything

drooks10
06-13-2016, 05:16 PM
I run between 40-60 miles each week and have run numerous marathons, half-marathons, etc. Most of my training runs take place in the early morning in a fasted state. I take a 200mg caffeine tab (I use Applied Nutriceuticals tabs as you can easily break them in half if you only want 100mg), and drink a serving of Xtend before my workout. During my runs, I utilize Honey Stinger gels/chews if my runs last for more than 1 hour. Has worked well for me.

jubjubrsx
06-13-2016, 06:20 PM
Carbs most important.

Beta alanine and COP would not hurt. Could also go with some caffeine beforehand.


^^complete rubbish IMO carbs are not important. My running has improved tremendously going keto, and alot of runners swear by it. (10+ marathons and 1 ultra) I will agree with the BA and caffeine.

my goto is bullet proof coffee or my personal mix is a scoop of focus XT+scoop of beta alanine.

I used to use cardio igniter which is good, but i've had issues with it not sitting well in my stomach at times.

poison
06-13-2016, 08:31 PM
hello fella runner bruh,

I'm an enduro weenie myself and the recent ones I tried and liked: SAN Megatron (stim free), AEN Steeledge (stim), GAT PMP (stim free)
Didn't get much of a pump in my legs from these but got pretty good energy and focus.

Megatron is GREAT for endurance, due to the citrulline malate, lclt, gms, betaine, beta alanine, etc.

AMeyer9
06-13-2016, 09:47 PM
^^complete rubbish IMO carbs are not important. My running has improved tremendously going keto, and alot of runners swear by it. (10+ marathons and 1 ultra) I will agree with the BA and caffeine.

my goto is bullet proof coffee or my personal mix is a scoop of focus XT+scoop of beta alanine.

I used to use cardio igniter which is good, but i've had issues with it not sitting well in my stomach at times.

So, since you personally use fat as energy, carbs are complete rubbish for those not using a ketogenic diet?

Alright.

muruku
06-13-2016, 11:13 PM
^^complete rubbish IMO carbs are not important. My running has improved tremendously going keto, and alot of runners swear by it. (10+ marathons and 1 ultra) I will agree with the BA and caffeine.

my goto is bullet proof coffee or my personal mix is a scoop of focus XT+scoop of beta alanine.

I used to use cardio igniter which is good, but i've had issues with it not sitting well in my stomach at times.

different strokes for different folks i guess.

danfleysher
06-14-2016, 05:12 AM
I actually just wrote a review for HIT Built and I would definitely look into that. I use it exclusively for cardio and I've gotten great results. Not only distance increased but speed as well. It's also got a bit of yohimbe which is more commonly found in fat burners but can help metabolize energy.

llahhsoj
06-14-2016, 07:05 AM
They can be but I wouldn't use one that is high in stimulants. It could raise your heart rate much faster.

VO2Maxima
06-14-2016, 07:31 AM
^^complete rubbish IMO carbs are not important. My running has improved tremendously going keto, and alot of runners swear by it. (10+ marathons and 1 ultra) I will agree with the BA and caffeine.

my goto is bullet proof coffee or my personal mix is a scoop of focus XT+scoop of beta alanine.

I used to use cardio igniter which is good, but i've had issues with it not sitting well in my stomach at times.
Lol okay. OP is talking about performance, not just finishing races. There is a reason that most elite marathoners are eating a very high-carb diet.

poison
06-14-2016, 07:48 AM
Lol okay. OP is talking about performance, not just finishing races. There is a reason that most elite marathoners are eating a very high-carb diet.

THank. That post triggered me, but I didn't have the patience. He's wrong on every level. Carbs are king.

burntreality
06-14-2016, 08:01 AM
^^complete rubbish IMO carbs are not important. My running has improved tremendously going keto, and alot of runners swear by it. (10+ marathons and 1 ultra) I will agree with the BA and caffeine.

my goto is bullet proof coffee or my personal mix is a scoop of focus XT+scoop of beta alanine.

I used to use cardio igniter which is good, but i've had issues with it not sitting well in my stomach at times.
Sounds like a good way to hit a wall. Carbs are extremely important when running especially long distances.

To the OP, I like to keep my stims very low when running. I am a big fan of GU Chomps to help me out (use them for running and biking).

HeavenBeyond
06-14-2016, 08:21 AM
^^complete rubbish IMO carbs are not important. My running has improved tremendously going keto, and alot of runners swear by it. (10+ marathons and 1 ultra) I will agree with the BA and caffeine.

my goto is bullet proof coffee or my personal mix is a scoop of focus XT+scoop of beta alanine.

I used to use cardio igniter which is good, but i've had issues with it not sitting well in my stomach at times.

Carbs are important, especially for a long distance runner or cyclist.

But what do any of us know :rolleyes:


https://i.imgflip.com/iakns.jpg

BrennanMWhite
06-14-2016, 08:37 AM
hello fella runner bruh,

I'm an enduro weenie myself and the recent ones I tried and liked: SAN Megatron (stim free), AEN Steeledge (stim), GAT PMP (stim free)
Didn't get much of a pump in my legs from these but got pretty good energy and focus.

I've used GAT PMP Stim Free before my runs. Admittedly, I dont run anywhere near as far as you do :p
I think you something focused on endurance and hydration would be advantageous. I like EAS MYO's BCAAs for running. They mix like crap (shake and wait), but I like the ingredients.

Vinny82
06-14-2016, 08:54 AM
Man body octane could be useful for a runner, its a good stim free endurance supplement

poison
06-14-2016, 09:46 AM
Also, when youre running long distances, supps aren't necessary, or even overly helpful. That preworkout you took ain't gonna matter 4 hours in. I ran a couple 40-60 mile distances; I ate dates and walnuts, drank water. Something like a BCAA with electrolytes and low levels of caffeine might have been nice, and helped recovery later, but meh, no supp helps that kind of pain.

italianmeatball
06-14-2016, 02:29 PM
Lol okay. OP is talking about performance, not just finishing races. There is a reason that most elite marathoners are eating a very high-carb diet.

Yes the performance is more important than distance to me, I'm looking to push myself harder and faster mainly over distances of 5k, 10k and at the most Half Marathon. I don't have any issues with going the distance, I can keep on going and going, it's more I want to increase my sustained hard running pace, to push a bit harder beyond my current threshold, to be able to keep going strong when the lactic acid kicks in and the body tells me to stop because its hurting.

VO2Maxima
06-14-2016, 05:13 PM
Also, when youre running long distances, supps aren't necessary, or even overly helpful. That preworkout you took ain't gonna matter 4 hours in. I ran a couple 40-60 mile distances; I ate dates and walnuts, drank water. Something like a BCAA with electrolytes and low levels of caffeine might have been nice, and helped recovery later, but meh, no supp helps that kind of pain.
This is really the best answer here. The supps named will make a really small difference, but probably not even a big enough difference to make it worth spending the money. Really, good dinner the night before, some pre-race carbs, and then just carrying a few gels and grabbing the Gatorade at the water stations (and the water at the stations when you're eating gels) will help you more than anything. I liked caffeine pre, and for a 3 hour marathon that should be helpful, plus some gels are caffeinated so that could give a little boost too.

Damn Poison, didn't know you did ultras, that's pretty cool. I was a pacer at Leadville several years ago, those guys are a different breed. I stuck to the track and roads mostly...occasional trail race, but I was a little too much "live and die by the clock" to get into them.

Simbahhh
06-14-2016, 05:57 PM
Some form of caffeinated drink or pill and BCAA'S is what I'd suggest.

jubjubrsx
06-14-2016, 06:27 PM
Carbs are important, especially for a long distance runner or cyclist.

But what do any of us know :rolleyes:


[img]https://i.imgflip.com/iakns.jpg[/]

just cause you posted a photo....not sure if you are referring to yourself with the picture or me? the stupid part here is become fat adapted and you will see what alot of people are talking about when they hit that wall when you are carb dependent...the wall is gone when you are burning fat as a fuel source not carbs. I'd almost bet that everyone here never went low carb running for over 2-3 months atleast to experience it. everyone just follows the "norms and what they have been told" aspects. one thing I've learned is everyone is quick to knock something that is different.

but as listed above by vo2max i think it was is that the supps will only last so long so maybe hr or so, at which point something like a salt tab (or gatorade), with sodium/potassium/magnesium is the best thing. no sense in getting stimmed up over and over again, having to pee and such like crazy just dehydrating you more.

-SDR-
06-14-2016, 08:15 PM
I'm just wondering if their are any supplements that people on hear use for building muscle building, that could be very effective for running? I'm looking for something that would give me more energy, allow me to push harder, past the pain barrier and in the longer term increase my speed?

A product like Bodyforge Ultra would work great for increasing your performance. In fact, it's designed specificity for this effect in and outside the gym. If you want something that's an all-in-one it's a great choice and value.

italianmeatball
06-17-2016, 01:36 PM
Well since starting this thread, I've spent a lot of time searching around and obsessing over which Pre-Workout would be the best. I'd just about made my mind up on 'Cardio Igniter' as it seemed to be the supplement that was most readily recommended for cardio. Then I discovered its not readily available in the UK, I found pretty much every other supplement recommend is available just not that one. I'm still considering BPI Best Amino's with energy, or Iforce Compete but they seem to lack a few things I want in the supplement.

Basically my main wish list in no particular order would be :

Caffeine / or other natural stims - For energy / focus. I don't mind if its high stim, low stim. If it's none stim I can live with that but caffeine would be preferred.
Beta-Alanine - For its physical performance improvement. I believe it makes you tingle in higher quantities.
BCAA's - For it's performance improvement and to prevent muscle break down.
Creatine - For building muscle over time.
Electrolytes and anything that improves muscle Hydration - For obvious reasons with running.
Am I overlooking anything else essential?

As mentioned I'm looking for supplements focused on cardio performance, my endurance and stamina are fine over longer distances, so I'm looking to boost my higher intensity running and overall speed.

Would there be a go to supplement that has all or the majority of the above? Nothings jumping out at me, so would still welcome your suggestions.

BrennanMWhite
06-17-2016, 02:25 PM
Well since starting this thread, I've spent a lot of time searching around and obsessing over which Pre-Workout would be the best. I'd just about made my mind up on 'Cardio Igniter' as it seemed to be the supplement that was most readily recommended for cardio. Then I discovered its not readily available in the UK, I found pretty much every other supplement recommend is available just not that one. I'm still considering BPI Best Amino's with energy, or Iforce Compete but they seem to lack a few things I want in the supplement.

Basically my main wish list in no particular order would be :

Caffeine / or other natural stims - For energy / focus. I don't mind if its high stim, low stim. If it's none stim I can live with that but caffeine would be preferred.
Beta-Alanine - For its physical performance improvement. I believe it makes you tingle in higher quantities.
BCAA's - For it's performance improvement and to prevent muscle break down.
Creatine - For building muscle over time.
Electrolytes and anything that improves muscle Hydration - For obvious reasons with running.
Am I overlooking anything else essential?

As mentioned I'm looking for supplements focused on cardio performance, my endurance and stamina are fine over longer distances, so I'm looking to boost my higher intensity running and overall speed.

Would there be a go to supplement that has all or the majority of the above? Nothings jumping out at me, so would still welcome your suggestions.

Its going to be hard to find all of those things in one supplement, but these two should cover it:
Athletic Edge - Steel Edge
Athletic Edge - Intrabolic

BenG1987
06-17-2016, 02:33 PM
The thing I like to use most before going running is simply coffee. Pre-workouts with a lot of chemicals bother my stomach

italianmeatball
06-17-2016, 02:52 PM
Its going to be hard to find all of those things in one supplement, but these two should cover it:
Athletic Edge - Steel Edge
Athletic Edge - Intrabolic

Seems steel edge is not an option either, they don't seem to stock it here.

hossjob
06-17-2016, 04:31 PM
I might be on the wrong sort of forum, but I've actually have a question I'm a bit curious to get a body builders view on.

I'm a runner, rather then a body builder, I run between 30 - 50 miles a week various distances, including hi intensity interval training (running hard for short periods of time with recovery in between). I do some core work, but for the most part I run!! I'm not a competative runner, just do it for fun, I'm about 19 minutes for 5k.

I'm just wondering if their are any supplements that people on hear use for building muscle building, that could be very effective for running? I'm looking for something that would give me more energy, allow me to push harder, past the pain barrier and in the longer term increase my speed?

I am an athlete by heart that began bodybuilding after my colege career was over. I've powerlifted and run up to 10K races as well. The last 2 years i've really taken to running in the spring, summer, and fall. I quite enjoy it and being a bodybuilder more naturally, I've always used a rpe workout prior to my runs, especially my longer runs. Last year depending on when I ran, I woudl use 1/2 to 1 full scoop of EFX Freak Maker Shock with 1/2-1 scoop of karbolyn. At times, I would add some BCAA depending on how long prior to my run I last consumed protein.

Try a product that has some creatine as it will keep the cells hydrated well and caffeine. Beta alanine can be ok, but you may not like it if it gives you the skin tingles. Karbolyn is great for running. It's a carbohydrate powder that has longer staying power (in the blood stream) than glucose/dextrse,

italianmeatball
06-18-2016, 07:48 AM
Well I went into a supplement store today, to see if I could narrow it down to a few choices I'd seen on here. The guy behind the counter, told me I'd get the best results for running by stacking, 1 x Whey Protein that included BCCA's for muscle maintainance and recovery, 1 x Creatine for muscle building and Alphamine for energy and stimulation. He said that was his stack for 5k. It did make sense the way he explained it. I've picked up some BNS creatine DNA so far, as I thought I'd add that into whatever I go with, but would you agree his suggestion of the 3 would work well?

BrennanMWhite
06-18-2016, 09:12 AM
Seems steel edge is not an option either, they don't seem to stock it here.

You must have just not seen it Steel Edge bb.com (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/athletic-edge-nutrition/steel-edge.html?PLASKU=AE3270072&bbdevice=m&mcid=CG_PLA_US_GS_All_Products&gclid=Cj0KEQjw4pO7BRDl9ePazKzr1LYBEiQAHLJdR5jcPOHl sDrhHYpcgF48wqY-bsCi2MBJEYbzHQ60cAQaAiaU8P8HAQ)

TheFugitive
06-18-2016, 09:17 AM
I personally find BPI MR1 Vortex to be very useful for cardio. It's my go to cardio pre.

Thanks for the shout, how long are your runs?

Calroid
06-18-2016, 01:13 PM
40 min to 1 hr.

italianmeatball
06-18-2016, 01:29 PM
BrennamMWhite, re Steel Edge, I'm in the UK, it's not available from the UK BB store, and couldn't seem to find it at any other store, must be US only.

italianmeatball
06-18-2016, 01:48 PM
Well in the end I've ended up purchasing these 3 products today :

Predator Nutrition Whey Protein with BCCA's (Cookies and Cream flavour) 23g Protein / 5g BCAA's per serving. UK Brand from Predator Nutrition.
BSN Creatine DNA (Natural flavour for stacking) 3.4g creatine monohydrate per serving.
Alphamine (Cherry Limonade flavour)

All 3 products were recommended by the guy running the store, who stated these are his cardio go to supplements, he seemed geniune and explained his logic.

Basically the Alphamine will be my energy preworkout stacked with Creatine for muscle building. I'll use the Whey for recovery again stacked with the Creatine.

In terms of taste, the cookies and cream whey tastes amazing, as does the cherry limonade flavour alphamine.

My hope is that I'll build up my leg musles, have better recovery between runs, and eventually build more speed / power over 5k. I'm also starting to work my upper and core, doing extra pressups and sit ups. Still have quite a few pounds to loose to get to my target weight, hopefully the alphamine will assist with this as well. Well I have a half marathon training run tomorrow so will see how it goes.

BrennanMWhite
06-18-2016, 02:31 PM
BrennamMWhite, re Steel Edge, I'm in the UK, it's not available from the UK BB store, and couldn't seem to find it at any other store, must be US only.

Ohhhh okay. That makes sense. My apologies! Hope the supplements you got work out well for you!

italianmeatball
06-18-2016, 11:29 PM
Ohhhh okay. That makes sense. My apologies! Hope the supplements you got work out well for you!

Thanks hope so, just about to go for a long run, I'll see how I go.

VO2Maxima
06-19-2016, 07:18 AM
Basically the Alphamine will be my energy preworkout stacked with Creatine for muscle building. I'll use the Whey for recovery again stacked with the Creatine.
Creatine is great and I would happily recommend it to anyone for general health reasons, but I wouldn't expect to see much in the way of improvement for extended cardiovascular exercise.
You also don't need to be taking it twice per day. Once is fine.

Vinny82
06-19-2016, 10:01 AM
Good choice in the alphamine I think you will enjoy it. I just got my gf a tub as well.

italianmeatball
06-20-2016, 10:59 AM
Good choice in the alphamine I think you will enjoy it. I just got my gf a tub as well.

I've been taking one scoop about 30 mins before exercise, gives a subtle boost in energy and alertness. Not getting any kind of big energy rush, but I don't think it's supposed to work that way. I wonder if it would stack well with beta alanine. Not sure if two scoops would be better.

Driven2liftv2
06-20-2016, 01:00 PM
You grabbed some good things to try out sir, hope you enjoy how it treats you!

italianmeatball
07-01-2016, 08:19 AM
We'll I'm about 2 weeks into trying the products I purchased, so thought I'd share the experience so far. I started a ketogenic diet at the same time, high protein, high fat, low carb, a diet thats helped me loose weight in the past and I found sustainable without starving myself.

I've been taking the following :

Hydroxcut Hardcore Next Gen Fat Burner Tab - 1 before breakfast, 1 before lunch. I purchased these before my other sups, so really just giving them a whirl to see if they help. These seem to at least wake me up and give me a sense of well being, so I take them to get me through 10 hours of work :)
Alphamine prework out - 1 scoop in water before every workout.
Predator Whey Protein 26g protein / 5 g BCCA's - 1 scoop in water post work out. Also been having a shake instead of breakfast on most week days.
BSN Creatine Monohydrate 5g - 1 scoop a day mixed in with my whey

In general my diet has been :

Breakfast - protein shake or omelette or bacon and eggs.
Lunch - Meat with Veg (usually yesterdays dinner left overs, cook enough for dinner and one lunch).
Dinner - Meat with Veg (beef, chicken or pork, with some sort of side vegetables). Usually make a big portion and eat until I'm full.
Snaking - Cold meats / salami's, cheeses and the odd omelette. Usually snack more on days I know I have some hard work outs.

My workout routine:

Has usually been 1 day running, followed by 1 day mixed circuit training. When I say circuit training I mean no heavy weights just press ups, situps and low weight high rep biceps curls, sometimes mixed with some high intensity cardio 2 - 3 min intervals on the treadmill or pounding the punch bag. I've been running about 25 - 30 miles per week, consisting of high intensity interval sessions, e.g. run a hard mile rest, run another another hard mile and repeat x 4. I've also continued doing some longer runs of 5 to 10 miles. On my off running days I've been doing 120 pressups, 120 situps, 125 biceps curls and a bit of pouding the punchbag for cardio.

Results so far :

So far I've lost 7 lbs, most of which I lost within the first week, didn't loose much in the second maybe a pound or so. I must point out that I have a gut to loose, my body fat scale currently tells me I'm about 25% body fat, how accurate that is I've no idea but if I look in the mirror most of my body is lean except for my belly. I'm basically down from 216 to 209 lbs so far, my goal would be to get somewhere near 185 lbs. I'm actually enjoying the protein shakes on and off as a breakfast replacement the cookies and cream is tasty and even in water I feel like I'm having a milk shake, it seems to satisfy.

I'm starting to see a small difference looking in the mirror and my work trousers now fit more comfortably and my chest is starting to look more toned from the pressups. I'm hoping the gut will continue to shrink as I stick to my diet and routine.

As for my running, it's been tough adjusting to everything, my bodies not getting the same fuel having very few carbs each day but I'm getting there. I did a keto test and appear to be in ketosis so should now be buring fat as fuel (if you believe all that stuff). I'm not looking for gains from the supplements as such, more from the longer weight loss by sticking to the routine.

The only things that I can really say as far as the supplements go, the alphamine seems to give me a buzz when doing cardio but nothing to improve performance. I do sweat bucket loads taking the alphamine, when doing circuits combined with cardio a swimming pool can be found in the garage gym. The protein seems to help me recover quicker.

Hopefully the protein and creatine will assist me in maintain the muscle or evening building a bit, which may help with fat lost and more high intensity cardio, but it's too early to tell at this stage.

I was thinking to buy some beta alanine to add to mix with the alphamine, as this seems to support cardio, but not sure if its worth it.

Further advice needed :

I've been eating pretty clean and in decent quantities, no sugar, low carbs, but my main issue is that I feel slightly starved on waking up and quite hungry before bed around 10pm at night. I was thinking to take another whey protein shake before bed to see if that helps with the hunger, but I've read several articles taking whey before bed time might actually encourage weight gain. Most things I've read say to take casein protein. I'm obviously just doing this to loose weight / body fat, tone up and hopefully run better as a result, so not looking to body build by any stretch.

Without wanting to break the bank, would I be fine with the protein shake before bed or should I invest in some casein? Is there any product that my kerb the bed time hunger an help me sleep a bit sounder, as I'm a light sleeper at the best of times?

BrennanMWhite
07-01-2016, 08:40 AM
Further advice needed :

I've been eating pretty clean and in decent quantities, no sugar, low carbs, but my main issue is that I feel slightly starved on waking up and quite hungry before bed around 10pm at night. I was thinking to take another whey protein shake before bed to see if that helps with the hunger, but I've read several articles taking whey before bed time might actually encourage weight gain. Most things I've read say to take casein protein. I'm obviously just doing this to loose weight / body fat, tone up and hopefully run better as a result, so not looking to body build by any stretch.

Without wanting to break the bank, would I be fine with the protein shake before bed or should I invest in some casein? Is there any product that my kerb the bed time hunger an help me sleep a bit sounder, as I'm a light sleeper at the best of times?

Awesome progress! Yeah, before getting to this last section, I was going to say you should probably be eating more. Seven lbs in one week is pretty steep. You're probably seeing some water weight changes and what not, but that's till pretty high. Are you tracking calories with your keto diet?

Overall, its total protein that counts. There are optimal feed times and intervals, but the most important thing is getting enough protein - spread throughout the day. Personally, I like casein before bed. I feel better when I wake up. I drink a blended shake every night. You could just a well drink some milk and eat chicken right before bed, if that works for you.

italianmeatball
07-01-2016, 10:10 AM
Awesome progress! Yeah, before getting to this last section, I was going to say you should probably be eating more. Seven lbs in one week is pretty steep. You're probably seeing some water weight changes and what not, but that's till pretty high. Are you tracking calories with your keto diet?

Overall, its total protein that counts. There are optimal feed times and intervals, but the most important thing is getting enough protein - spread throughout the day. Personally, I like casein before bed. I feel better when I wake up. I drink a blended shake every night. You could just a well drink some milk and eat chicken right before bed, if that works for you.

Thanks, I'm not counting calories, I'm mainly seeing how my body feels as my main guide and trying to find a good balance, but definately with what I'm eating I'm in a calorie defict. I've probably overdone it on some heavy cardio days by not eating enough on a couple of occasions, but overall my appretite has now kerbed and my potion size has reduced and I'm not craving junk anymore.

I may not be taking enough protein onboard, I'm probably taking maybe 2 shakes a day when exercising heavy and 1 a day when I'm not working out (as a breakfast replacement mainly).

I may have to invest in some casein, if a whey shake before bed is a bad idea. I've had the odd omelette before bed but it feels a bit unhealthy eating a greasy egg, cheese and ham omelette and then switching the lights off!! Cooking at 10pm is also hard work as I'm always pretty shattered from working, family life and exercise, so having a quick shake would work in well in my routine. Before I started this, I used to skip breakfast quite often, which resulted in me snacking on biscuits and junk until lunch. The whey protein shake has in some ways assisted with a convienient alternative to have breakfast and see me through to lunch time.

So if I can just get the pre bedtime stuff sorted, so I don't go to sleep hungry and sleep better, I'm probably onto a winner.

BrennanMWhite
07-01-2016, 11:27 AM
Thanks, I'm not counting calories, I'm mainly seeing how my body feels as my main guide and trying to find a good balance, but definately with what I'm eating I'm in a calorie defict. I've probably overdone it on some heavy cardio days by not eating enough on a couple of occasions, but overall my appretite has now kerbed and my potion size has reduced and I'm not craving junk anymore.

I may not be taking enough protein onboard, I'm probably taking maybe 2 shakes a day when exercising heavy and 1 a day when I'm not working out (as a breakfast replacement mainly).

I may have to invest in some casein, if a whey shake before bed is a bad idea. I've had the odd omelette before bed but it feels a bit unhealthy eating a greasy egg, cheese and ham omelette and then switching the lights off!! Cooking at 10pm is also hard work as I'm always pretty shattered from working, family life and exercise, so having a quick shake would work in well in my routine. Before I started this, I used to skip breakfast quite often, which resulted in me snacking on biscuits and junk until lunch. The whey protein shake has in some ways assisted with a convienient alternative to have breakfast and see me through to lunch time.

So if I can just get the pre bedtime stuff sorted, so I don't go to sleep hungry and sleep better, I'm probably onto a winner.

It's not so much that whey is bad, more than casein is probably better. Nutrient timing (protein, fats, etc) isn't as important as overall intake. So if you wan an omelette before bed, go for it! :D

The shake is just quick and convenient.

PabloOttawa
07-22-2017, 11:37 AM
I haven't gone through all of this thread but a lot of great tips.... I'm in the same boat. Looking to run 6k every day but my legs are so sore after the run that I can only do it every second day and even then my legs hurt like crazy. the pain is mostly muscular whee my quads meet my knees. My hips also hurt if I run over uneven pavement which is unavoidable with all these sidewalks on an angle to allow for drainage.

I guess my question is; Is there a pre-workout powder that will numb the pain enough to have a good solid run?

Currently I'm playing around with L-Glutamine, Cellucor C4 Original, Nutrabolics Thermal XTC which seems to give me the energy (but not the higher pain threshold I'm looking for), and finally Nutrabolics Carnabolic.

I always take these (not stacked, just testing each one out) 5 mins before running but should I take some thing afterwards to heal faster?