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View Full Version : Fat vs carbs in bulking+my own bulking diet (heavy whipping cream, don't really know



BeastAreMade
12-27-2015, 06:17 PM
So I've read quite a few threads on high fat low carb or low fat high carb bulks. However what if you keep both fat and carbs high? Low fat=low testosterone/other hormones, low carbs=low insulin which won't spare muscle as well since insulin blocks cortisol. Instead, your body will more likely go after protein/muscle for energy while fat takes a while to be converted to energy.

My First Bulk
First off, I used to be a long distance runner. I've been a stick my entire life. Now I'm bulking at 5000-6000 calories a day. In the morning and night I mix a carton (16oz) of heavy whipping cream with bulk 1340 mass gainer which yields 4400 calories total. Each carton is 1600 calories total, I dilute it with a bit of water to make it more manageable. 277g of carbs, 50g protein with 11g BCAA's. In the middle of the day I also have a third shake that's 600 calories, but mostly to get more protein in. 160oz of whole milk with 3 scoops of "super" whey (100 calories per scoop). This whey comes with Testofen from fenugreek to boost test levels, 18g of BCAA's, and 3g creatine, 60g protein. In between all these shakes I also eat real food.

I started at 12% bodyfat, 130 pounds. Now I'm at 144ish on a full stomach 22 days later. I'm 5'8" and work as a full time ramp agent at the airport, loading & unloaddng planes. No cardio.

I do a full body workout 3x a week. All sets to failure, 8-12 reps, maximal weight. This is my entire workout below however, I start with squats and deads first.

Bench, 3 sets
Squat, 2 sets
BB Rows, 3 sets
Military Press, 2 sets
Deadlift, 1 set
Pull-ups, 2 sets
Hamstring curls, 3 sets
Wrist/reverse wrist curls, 3 sets
Incline ab crunches, 3 sets
Calf raises, 3 sets

I haven't thrown up or had any dietary problems yet. However, I'm not sure how it it will turn out really in the long run. I mean, I really went crazy with the calories. Maintenance at 130 is like what...2500 calories? I increased by 100% instead of 10% so I don't know. I have a really high metabolism, I still don't know if this time it's enough to keep me from getting fat.

nakkiz
12-28-2015, 02:12 AM
Is yor diet all powder?

Read the stickies. This is an awful way to bulk.

0.8g protein per lb of bw
0.45g fat per lb of bw

Consider a differet program too

DavePoca
12-28-2015, 03:05 AM
5000 calories? Future goals is to do same job. Would pump those calories every day.

Mrpb
12-28-2015, 09:48 AM
14 pounds in 22 days. This is not going to end well.

Bulking on high SFA. Not a good idea either.

boo99
12-28-2015, 10:59 AM
14 pounds in 22 days. This is not going to end well.

Bulking on high SFA. Not a good idea either.

agree here, too much, too soon

maybe slow it down? 6000 kcals is a bit high

psicologia777
12-28-2015, 11:42 AM
14 pounds in 22 days. This is not going to end well.

Bulking on high SFA. Not a good idea either.

what about bulking with high fat moderate carbs? (high fat i mean around .5x bw or 90 grams +)

Mrpb
12-28-2015, 11:45 AM
what about bulking with high fat moderate carbs? (high fat i mean around .5x bw or 90 grams +)

High fat is no problem. Try to keep SFA to ~25% of fat or less. Monounsaturated fats should be the majority.

psicologia777
12-28-2015, 11:55 AM
High fat is no problem. Try to keep SFA to ~25% of fat or less. Monounsaturated fats should be the majority.

well damn. yesterday i ate 31 sat (from pb, coconut oil and salmon. coconut oil haves 14 grams of sat per serving) how can high fat diets be below 25 sat? i mean pb haves sat, avocados have sat, olive oil haves sat and freaking cococnut oil (the one i cook with) haves the highest fat of them all and salmon haves around 7 fat per 7 oz if im correct?

another thing is, is it good to go .45 or .5 fat and rest carbs?

Mrpb
12-28-2015, 12:10 PM
well damn. yesterday i ate 31 sat (from pb, coconut oil and salmon. coconut oil haves 14 grams of sat per serving) how can high fat diets be below 25 sat? i mean pb haves sat, avocados have sat, olive oil haves sat and freaking cococnut oil (the one i cook with) haves the highest fat of them all and salmon haves around 7 fat per 7 oz if im correct?

25% saturated fats of total fat. Meaning if you have 100 gram fats try to keep SFA around 25 gram or lower.

Keep in mind this is just a general guideline.

Salmon, peanuts and olive oil all have less than 25% SFA.



another thing is, is it good to go .45 or .5 fat and rest carbs?

If you have good insulin sensitivity it's good. If not, you need more fat.

psicologia777
12-28-2015, 12:40 PM
25% saturated fats of total fat. Meaning if you have 100 gram fats try to keep SFA around 25 gram or lower.

Keep in mind this is just a general guideline.

Salmon, peanuts and olive oil all have less than 25% SFA.



If you have good insulin sensitivity it's good. If not, you need more fat.

thanks!

Aspiringathlete
12-28-2015, 05:41 PM
Are SFAs supposed to be the best fats for natural test production. Assuming sources like coconut oil, red meats, grass fed butter etc.

allrnder
12-28-2015, 06:11 PM
Nothing wrong with consuming some higher amounts of SFA's

Recomendation for SFA's?

I don't have any specific recommendation for that, and I don't like to force arbitrary quantifications. I think that the entire research area of SFA & health is very convoluted, and not conducive to drawing hard lines. Like I mentioned in email, while I think that SFA has gotten an undeserved bad rap, I also think that if you're going to nitpick over dietary FA optimization, it's kind of dumb to jack up SFA so high that it displaces any room for the other types of FA.


Given the specific scenario you described, especially one involving a physically active population, a diet whose fat content is 75% SFA from mostly whole food sources is not going to pose any significant risks. If you think it would, then I would like to see what evidence you'd use to support this. I'd also add that this diet would be difficult to achieve & is rather far-fetched.

Comparison of isocaloric very low carbohydrate/high saturated fat and high carbohydrate/low saturated fat diets on body composition and cardiovascular risk
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1368980/

EdgarM3
12-28-2015, 07:35 PM
Op does heavy cream with a mass gainer taste good? I wanna try doing that lol doesn't that shake make you crash? When I drink my mass gainer with whole milk I just wanna sleep.

Mrpb
12-28-2015, 10:47 PM
Nothing wrong with consuming some higher amounts of SFA's


The question was about bulking in which case it's not recommend to have high amounts of SFAs.

In conclusion, overeating SFA promotes hepatic and visceral fat storage whereas excess energy from PUFA may instead promote lean tissue in healthy humans.

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/early/2014/02/11/db13-1622.short

This has been confirmed by Lyle too.

allrnder
12-28-2015, 11:07 PM
The question was about bulking in which case it's not recommend to have high amounts of SFAs.

In conclusion, overeating SFA promotes hepatic and visceral fat storage whereas excess energy from PUFA may instead promote lean tissue in healthy humans.

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/early/2014/02/11/db13-1622.short

This has been confirmed by Lyle too.

Yes. Due to metabolic pathways. This will occur when in a surplus of energy. People gain fat from these FA's.

Higher amounts of PUFA's are not recommended either.

" there has been a counterargument regarding saturated fat intake that they are of no health risk at all, that the real problem is with excessive polyunsaturated fatty acids/vegetable oils (discussed next), etc."

But also different FA's whoch fall under saturated fatys are also a factor as well as PUFA's.

Reducing SFA"s may not be wise for females either.

Thing is, no one advocates going to extreme amounts in a surplus of anything.

Mrpb
12-28-2015, 11:41 PM
Right which why I was recommending keeping SFA limited to ~25% of total fats when is surplus.

allrnder
12-29-2015, 04:34 AM
Yeah thats fair enough. I usually have a bit more as I eat a decent amount of fatty meat and cheese.

BeastAreMade
12-31-2015, 10:41 AM
Op does heavy cream with a mass gainer taste good? I wanna try doing that lol doesn't that shake make you crash? When I drink my mass gainer with whole milk I just wanna sleep.

It tastes fine, but highly depends on the type of mass gainer. For example I just finished a tub of Dymatize and it was just bleh all the way through. The heavy whipping cream just makes it thick. Dilute it with water as you drink through it.

EjnarKolinkar
12-31-2015, 12:37 PM
What are your current protein, fat and carbs totals for the day generally speaking OP?

Start of mass gain period can see a large shift in scale weight, and 130 is a bit light at 5'8" but as time goes by as others mentioned a pound+/- a week is a pretty solid rate of gain.