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View Full Version : Kobe Bryant vs Tim Duncan using advanced stats



Slats7
11-25-2015, 02:43 PM
*All stats from before this season*

Regular Season:

SCORING: Let’s start off with the stat that everyone cares about: POINTS. To me to measure scoring, you have to look at what PERCENT of the team points you’re scoring and how EFFICIENTLY you’re doing it. Scoring 20 points when your team wins 40-30 is more impressive then scoring 20 when your team wins 80-60. Likewise, TS% is also necessary to measure how efficiently you're scoring.

Duncan: For his career, Duncan has scored ~20.7% of his team's points. Till 2004, he was scoring about 24.5% of his team's point. He did this on .552 TS% and a .508 EFG (which takes into account 3s are worth 1.5 x more as 2s). Championship years: 23.4, 24.4, 21.1, 20.3, 14.3%.

Bryant: For his career, Bryant has scored 24.9 % of his team's points. He did this on .555 TS% and .487 EFG. So he shot FTs better than Duncan, but scored slightly less effective on 2's and 3's. Championship years: 22.3%, 28.3%, 24.9%, 25.1%, 26.5%.

Conclusion: Bryant, like many would expect has been the better scorer in the regular season. He has scored as efficiently/slightly worse as Duncan, but has scored a higher % of his team points.

Rebounding: I'm not looking at Offensive rebounding % since many guys like Duncan and KG have been more focused on getting back on defense. However, DRB% is vital for a team to win a championship, while ORB has not correlated to championships.

Duncan: DRB: 26.6%. Compared to 23.7 by Barkley, 25.7 by KG, 21.9 by Dirk, 23.5 by Malone, 23.6 by Shaq. Even great Centers such as Hakeen averaged 23.8% and D-Rob averaged 23.4%.As one can see, Duncan is probably the best rebounder of all the "great" PFs/Centers in the last 20 years. The only guys that beat him are guys like Rodman, 29.6% and Dwight Howard, 29.6% - two centers.

Bryant: His DRB is 12.6%. Compared to similar players: Jordan : 14.1, James: 17.6, Wade: 11.7, Harden: 12.1, Manu: 13.1 %, McGrady: 15. Kobe here is on the lower end, only besting Harden.

Assists TO ratio:

Duncan: 16.5:12.2, Compared to similar players: Barkley: 17.5:14.8, KG: 19.6:11.7, Dirk 13.1:8.9, Malone: 17.6, 12.4.

Bryant: 24.2:11.6, Compared to similar players: Jordan: 24.9:9.3, James: 34.3:12.1, Wade: 32.2:13.7, Harden:23.4:14.4, Manu: 24.5:14.2, McGrady: 26.3:10.3 So Kobe is worse than Jordan and James (considerably), McGrady, Harden (who’s AST:TO ratio has gotten a lot better now he has the ball at Houston) and Wade. He has an advantage over only over Manu.

Blocks and Steals:

Duncan: In terms of blocks, Duncan is about as good as they come for PFs, topping KG, Malone and Dirk. Tied with Shaq. Hakeem and David Robinson bested him by about 1% respectively (4.6 compared to 5.3 and 5.7).

Bryant: In terms of steals, Kobe is the 2nd to last in the pack. He is bested by Jordan, James, Wade, Harden and Manu. He beats McGrady by .1 %. Jordan is the leader of the pack with 3.1%, so all of them are within 1% of each other.

PER/OTG/DTG/WS/48: I'm going to group these up, since these give pretty accurate measures of offensive production and the offense/defense rating while on the floor. PER: Duncan's PER is 24.7, Kobe's is 23.2. None of them have led the league in PER in the regular season.

OTG: This is how many points a team scores per 100 possessions. The team's OTG when Duncan is on the floor is 110. Kobe's is 112.

DTG: This is how many points a team gives up per 100 possessions. The team's DTG when Duncan is on the floor is 95. He has led the league in DTG 4 times in the NBA. Kobe's is 105.

NTG: So the Net Rating for Duncan is 15 and Kobe's is 7. I think this shows well how Kobe's teams have had slightly better offense, while Duncan has led the LEAGUE in his defensive rating.

WS/48: Duncan: .214, Kobe: .183.

When it comes down to it Kobe is slightlty better on offense and Duncan is better on defense, but Duncan is wayyyy closer to Kobe on offense than Kobe is to Duncan on defense.

Conclusion conclusion: To me these stats paint a very clear picture. Duncan has been the better regular season player. I just honestly don’t know how to make an argument for Kobe unless I want to point to very individual SCORING performances (81 point game, streak of 50 pt games in 2006, etc.). To those saying that stats don’t paint the clear picture, please give me an argument that involves the correct stats.

Some might say the playoffs will paint a different story, lets look at second part of this which is Playoff stats. I'm not going to go as in depth in this one as you guys are probably falling asleep.

PLAYOFFS: I want to compare how they're stats compare in the playoffs to the regular season. Duncan: PER goes up from 24.7 to 25.3, TS% goes down from .551 to .549, eFG goes down from .508 to .502. DRB goes down from 26.6 to 25.7, AST% goes up from 16.5 to 17.5, BLK% goes up by .2%, TOV goes up by .2 %, OTG stays the same, DTG goes up by 3, NTG of 12, WS of .198.

Kobe: PER goes down from 23.4 to 22.4, TS% down from .555 to .541, EFG down from .487 to .48. DRB down from 12.6 to 11.9, AST% down from 24.2 to 23.3, STL% down from 2.1 to 1.9, TOV % down from 11.6 to 11. OTG down from 112 to 110 and DRT up from 105 to 106, So net rating of 4 and WS goes down from .183 to .157.

Cliffs:

Tim Duncan > Kobe Bryant

BeastModeFTW
11-25-2015, 03:10 PM
kobe 4-2 vs duncan in the playoffs. kobe 1-0 vs duncan without shaq in the playoffs. kobe best player in the majority of the lakers vs spurs series. kobe 4-1 vs duncan in the playofs when both players were in their prime. kobe practically single handily destroyed a champion spurs team with a prime big 3 in 2008. rip duncan

Slats7
11-25-2015, 03:14 PM
kobe 4-2 vs duncan in the playoffs. kobe 1-0 vs duncan without shaq in the playoffs. kobe best player in the majority of the lakers vs spurs series. kobe 4-1 vs duncan in the playofs when both players were in their prime. kobe practically single handily destroyed a champion spurs team with a prime big 3 in 2008. rip duncan

Duncan: 3 NBA Finals MVP (1999, 2003, 2005)
2 NBA Most Valuable Player (2002–2003)

Bryant: 2 NBA Finals MVP (2009–2010)
1 x NBA Most Valuable Player (2008)

BeastModeFTW
11-25-2015, 03:15 PM
Duncan: 3 NBA Finals MVP (1999, 2003, 2005)
2 NBA Most Valuable Player (20022003)

Bryant: 2 NBA Finals MVP (20092010)
1 x NBA Most Valuable Player (2008)

media award of peace.

ImJJames
11-25-2015, 03:20 PM
Who gives a ****, if anybody actually really watched Kobe in his prime everyone wanted to be like him, KOBE>DUNCAN

People don't say DUNCAN when you make a perfect shot in your backyard, they say KOBE.

BeastModeFTW
11-25-2015, 03:22 PM
Who gives a ****, if anybody actually really watched Kobe in his prime everyone wanted to be like him, KOBE>DUNCAN

People don't say DUNCAN when you make a perfect shot in your backyard, they say KOBE.

this. also when both players were in their prime ala 2001-2010 you weren't hearing people saying duncan>kobe. it was pretty much a consensus that Kobe was the better player and the best player of his generation. heck you even had shaq saying in 2001 that Kobe was the best player in the league and that was even just the beginning of kobe's reign. kobe from 2001-2013 was constantly better then duncan year in and year out. duncan was better intially since he went all 4 years in college while kobe was a raw high school product and has been better at old age since Kobe has 3 crippling season ending injuries. both players in their primes and its not even close. kobe's better and he proved it embarrassing duncan in the playoffs 4 out of 5 times between 2001-2008 when both players were in their primes. inb4 kobe's teams were just better. yeah no. duncan had homecourt advantage 3 out of 5 times and still lost 4 out of 5. lol. phucking lol at duncan having homecourt and still getting rekt. lol at duncan having homecourt and getting swept. lol'd at duncan up 2-0 and then losing 4 in a row.

WafflesBrah
11-25-2015, 03:25 PM
Who gives a ****, if anybody actually really watched Kobe in his prime everyone wanted to be like him, KOBE>DUNCAN

People don't say DUNCAN when you make a perfect shot in your backyard, they say KOBE.
Yeah because people wanna scream a fukin Power Forwards name when shooting around in a backyard.

Marronis
11-25-2015, 03:27 PM
Yeah because people wanna scream a fukin Power Forwards name when shooting around in a backyard.

Fukin lollll

StrapNScrap21
11-25-2015, 03:29 PM
Yeah because people wanna scream a fukin Power Forwards name when shooting around in a backyard.

http://www.*******.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/deadmanny.png

#LWO ready to commit that

1800_Cool_Guy
11-25-2015, 03:33 PM
Too long didnt red

Day1086
11-25-2015, 03:33 PM
Duncan has easily been better over the course of their careers and it isn't much of a debate unless you're blinded by the "mystique" of Kobe Bryant.

The only response from Kobe fans will be some bs about intangibles (which honestly duncan has better non-stat impact on a game), killer instinct, or scoring streaks. But the real root of it is that Kobe plays in LA and has a flashier style.

sdballer5588
11-25-2015, 03:45 PM
ImJJames just perfectly encapsulated why Kobe fans are so hated.


Why is kobe better? Because people yell his name sarcastically when they shoot things into the trash, which is fitting, considering Kobe has been chucking garbage for going on 20 years now.

Emidoody
11-25-2015, 03:53 PM
ImJJames just perfectly encapsulated why Kobe fans are so hated.


Why is kobe better? Because people yell his name sarcastically when they shoot things into the trash, which is fitting, considering Kobe has been chucking garbage for going on 20 years now.JorJor > KoKo = DunDun > BronBron

wifestealer
11-25-2015, 03:55 PM
ImJJames just perfectly encapsulated why Kobe fans are so hated.


Why is kobe better? Because people yell his name sarcastically when they shoot things into the trash, which is fitting, considering Kobe has been chucking garbage for going on 20 years now.

savage

i'd still put duncan = kobe = bron if we're taking in entire careers. you can argue pros and cons of all of them, but noone is losing if you get a top 3 pick with those 3 in the same draft class.

but prime bron > prime kobe > prime duncan

dtbrehm
11-25-2015, 03:56 PM
Who gives a ****, if anybody actually really watched Kobe in his prime everyone wanted to be like him, KOBE>DUNCAN

People don't say DUNCAN when you make a perfect shot in your backyard, they say KOBE.

That would be true if you were comparing almost any top guard to a PF/C.

More people probably imitated Iverson than Duncan, KG, and Dirk combined.

hoop84
11-25-2015, 03:59 PM
Lol at just using stats alone.

Day1086
11-25-2015, 04:00 PM
Any time a player is very good and plays in one of: LA, NYC, Chicago

their legend will end up greater than their reality

cashinout
11-25-2015, 04:00 PM
ImJJames just perfectly encapsulated why Kobe fans are so hated.


Why is kobe better? Because people yell his name sarcastically when they shoot things into the trash, which is fitting, considering Kobe has been chucking garbage for going on 20 years now.

https://media.giphy.com/media/fDzM81OYrNjJC/giphy.gif

thecurrymamba
11-25-2015, 05:16 PM
Who the fuk cares? You can say Kobe > Duncan or Duncan > Kobe, but it really doesn't matter because they are both cut from the same cloth/top 10 legends when all is said and done. Personally the only thing I've disliked about Duncan is his lack of personality.

Let's just take a moment to respect and appreciate their excellent fundamentals and footwork, as well as their loyalty and winning finals records, all of which LeSavedbyrayallen has never, does not, and will never have.

sdballer5588
11-25-2015, 05:17 PM
Who the fuk cares? You can say Kobe > Duncan or Duncan > Kobe, but it really doesn't matter because they are both cut from the same cloth/top 10 legends when all is said and done. Personally the only thing I've disliked about Duncan is his lack of personality.

Let's just take a moment to respect and appreciate their excellent fundamentals and footwork, as well as their loyalty and winning finals records, all of which LeSavedbyrayallen has never, does not, and will never have.

Yeah Kobe had mad loyalty when he demanded a trade.

thecurrymamba
11-25-2015, 05:45 PM
Yeah Kobe had mad loyalty when he demanded a trade.Act like demanding a trade without actually leaving and going down with the ship for 2 consecutive lottery seasons (when he could easily be ring whoring like Lechoke and his savior) is tantamount to ACTUALLY leaving for TWO times, including AFTER losing in the finals for the franchise who he promised 8 rings, brehs.

http://imgur.com/CEwPZKJ.jpg

Actions speak louder than words breh.

cashinout
11-25-2015, 05:47 PM
Act like demanding a trade without actually leaving and going down with the ship for 2 consecutive lottery seasons (when he could easily be ring whoring like Lechoke and his savior) is tantamount to ACTUALLY leaving for TWO times, including AFTER making a finals appearance, brehs.

http://imgur.com/CEwPZKJ.jpg

Actions speak louder than words breh.

is that you in the bottom pictue

dustiestuniform
11-25-2015, 07:23 PM
The big fundamental. One of the greats. How dominant and consistent his career has been for so long is unreal. Meanwhile Kobe chucking 50 shots a game.

http://m.quickmeme.com/img/34/348a214c83bcd0ea3bd9bb14f23d102c3832497ff3a52e5b78 6ba5551218032e.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2PSPjT2.jpg

RScary15
11-25-2015, 07:28 PM
Duncan is GOAT!

Favorite player of all time

sdballer5588
11-25-2015, 07:30 PM
How do actions speak louder than words, it was the front office that refused to trade him. Kobe Bryant's ACTION was to demand a trade over and over lol

MarioGOATmers
11-25-2015, 07:47 PM
Who gives a ****, if anybody actually really watched Kobe in his prime everyone wanted to be like him, KOBE>DUNCAN

People don't say DUNCAN when you make a perfect shot in your backyard, they say KOBE.
Yelling Kobe has become synonymous with taking shots with a 10% chance of going in. Why you think white guys in the office yell Kobe while tossing paper balls into the garbage can halfway across the room?

TexasMajor
11-25-2015, 07:51 PM
The big fundamental. One of the greats. How dominant and consistent his career has been for so long is unreal. Meanwhile Kobe chucking 50 shots a game.


I always get a chuckle out of idiots who say chit like this.

Nothing about Duncan's career has been dominant. Hilarious.

YesWayNoWeigh
11-25-2015, 07:54 PM
Every sensible person has Tim higher all time than Kobe. Kobe is lucky to be listed in any top 10

BeastModeFTW
11-25-2015, 07:55 PM
damn tim duncan out there goating out there with his 2 points tonight and 10 ppg for the season. must be nice getting carried by kawhi out there.

Dominik
11-25-2015, 08:01 PM
Cliffs:

Tim Duncan > Kobe BryantYou left out...

NBA Player Salaries

1. Kobe Bryant $25m

143. Tim Duncan $5m

Cliffs: one took a massive pay cut to keep the team together and recruit more talent. The other continues to suck his team dry while complaining to front office about the lack of talent.

waisoserious
11-25-2015, 08:04 PM
kobe shoulda went to dirk route

take less money AND miss out on free agents

amirite?

ClevageGobbler
11-25-2015, 08:04 PM
After seeing how Duncan played against the Heat both those years you have to have this conversation. Before 2013, it was Kobe and my mind was made up but Tim Duncan was putting up legendary games during those two years and he still might be able to contend Spurs might even take the whole thing albeit, doubtful. But let's get down to the facts, ya pusses.

http://i.imgur.com/I3Er05F.jpg

They played in the same stacked conference. Both had excellent, excellent teams their entire career. Both learned and operated under mastermind coaches. So tell me why does Kobe have an entire season of dominance over Tim? Six teams more he was able to thwart with his squad. Who has the recipe? They both have five rings. At the end of the day the win is the main goal. You have to think about who the better leader is. Kobe's always been a floor general and he's uncompromising. He sees the game clearer than anybody and will make decisions late in game that he think will win the game. Tim Duncan lets Popovich run the show entirely and doesn't have that unrelenting belief in himself. The way I see it, Kobe has always been the most intelligent player to have played this game and has always gone out of his way to win, more so than any player before him. If Kobe were taking paycuts to acquire better players his entire career like Tim where would he be

You can talk stats all you want but when you realize the most dominant player of all time with unparalleled stats doesn't even have half the ring Kobe or Duncan have you should then understand that it's how the team ran. Only thing that matters is how the team's coming and who ends up taking the whole thing pussayz. Always will have more respect for Kobe, Tim is right there. Both genius and ruthless competitors but Kobe was always able to affect any given game to a larger extent.

thecurrymamba
11-25-2015, 08:04 PM
How do actions speak louder than words, it was the front office that refused to trade him. Kobe Bryant's ACTION was to demand a trade over and over lolHow did he demand a trade? Oh right, he spoke WORDS.

There's a difference between leaving (the PHYSICAL ACTION of leaving from a place, i.e. Miami and Cleveland) vs simply speaking a demand (making a verbal request, i.e. "Hey Mitch I want a fukking trade, I hate this shyt team"). Can't believe I have to explain such a simple quote to you.

Inb4 you insist that speaking is an action (which it is), but that's obviously not the point of "Actions speak louder than words."

What are you trying to imply? That Kobe is less loyal than Duncan because of a simple demand? Ok? Still more loyal than LeDisloyal.

ClevageGobbler
11-25-2015, 08:10 PM
How do actions speak louder than words, it was the front office that refused to trade him. Kobe Bryant's ACTION was to demand a trade over and over lol

what a fukboy u are

sht aint changed a bit in sports misc. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, why wouldn't he speak up when he was playing like Wilt and was surrounded with d-league caliber players? put a fire under management's ass cuz his team was fukn HORRID

dudebruh
11-25-2015, 08:11 PM
skipped to OP cliffs, nodded with approval.

sdballer5588
11-25-2015, 08:42 PM
How did he demand a trade? Oh right, he spoke WORDS.

There's a difference between leaving (the PHYSICAL ACTION of leaving from a place, i.e. Miami and Cleveland) vs simply speaking a demand (making a verbal request, i.e. "Hey Mitch I want a fukking trade, I hate this shyt team"). Can't believe I have to explain such a simple quote to you.

Inb4 you insist that speaking is an action (which it is), but that's obviously not the point of "Actions speak louder than words."

What are you trying to imply? That Kobe is less loyal than Duncan because of a simple demand? Ok? Still more loyal than LeDisloyal.


.... do players trade themselves now? lol even if he was traded that is not HIS OWN ACTION you dumbass.

antiwhitekn1ght
11-25-2015, 08:47 PM
Who gives a ****, if anybody actually really watched Kobe in his prime everyone wanted to be like him, KOBE>DUNCAN

People don't say DUNCAN when you make a perfect shot in your backyard, they say KOBE.


This. nobody watched them play and was like 'I WANT TO PLAY LIKE DUNCAN'

lmfao.

still more fun to watch then Lebeta tho

TexasMajor
11-25-2015, 09:05 PM
You left out...

NBA Player Salaries

1. Kobe Bryant $25m

143. Tim Duncan $5m

Cliffs: one took a massive pay cut to keep the team together and recruit more talent. The other continues to suck his team dry while complaining to front office about the lack of talent.

Cliffs: Kobe's pockets are bigger than Duncan's .


Another L for the most boring PF in NBA history.

thecurrymamba
11-25-2015, 09:30 PM
.... do players trade themselves now? lol even if he was traded that is not HIS OWN ACTION you dumbass.Oh, so it's NOT Kobe's action? Ok? Why the fuk are you still arguing then if you agree with me lmao. Nice contradiction dumbass.

And if he was traded, the Lakers would at least get some valuable players in return, unlike Le2-4 simply ditching his teams in free agency and preventing them from getting anything back.

Forcing your team to trade you no matter what would essentially be trading yourself, except in Kobe's case he simply demanded a trade (not forced) under one condition, IF they couldn't get him better teammates (Hence why he STAYED when Pau came, while Lebum didn't give a shyt what the cavs and heat would do in the future, even when he had such a trustworthy and successful GM as Pat Riley).


I don't even know why you're still arguing. It's almost as if your extra chromosome is forcing you to argue just for the sake of arguing. STFU lol. Nothing you say can change the fact that Kobe DIDN'T leave, while Lebum DID LEAVE.

FOR 2 TIMES.

A demand = 2 departures? Okay.

notWilliam
11-25-2015, 10:12 PM
savage

i'd still put duncan = kobe = bron if we're taking in entire careers. you can argue pros and cons of all of them, but noone is losing if you get a top 3 pick with those 3 in the same draft class.

but prime bron > prime kobe > prime duncan

Peak is a better word here

2003 Duncan was a massive peak, not sure if 2006/2007 kobe exceeds it.
they diff positions anyway.

im still duncan > kobe (and lbj) as of 2015


Oh, so it's NOT Kobe's action? Ok? Why the fuk are you still arguing then if you agree with me lmao. Nice contradiction dumbass.

And if he was traded, the Lakers would at least get some valuable players in return, unlike Le2-4 simply ditching his teams in free agency and preventing them from getting anything back.

Forcing your team to trade you no matter what would essentially be trading yourself, except in Kobe's case he simply demanded a trade (not forced) under one condition, IF they couldn't get him better teammates (Hence why he STAYED when Pau came, while Lebum didn't give a shyt what the cavs and heat would do in the future, even when he had such a trustworthy and successful GM as Pat Riley).


I don't even know why you're still arguing. It's almost as if your extra chromosome is forcing you to argue just for the sake of arguing. STFU lol. Nothing you say can change the fact that Kobe DIDN'T leave, while Lebum DID LEAVE.

FOR 2 TIMES.

A demand = 2 departures? Okay.

how can anyone take you srsly when your username is thecurrymamba and you registered only so u can troll a sports subsection of a subsection in a body building forum.

just lol man, go to realgm or something

thecurrymamba
11-26-2015, 06:09 AM
Peak is a better word here

2003 Duncan was a massive peak, not sure if 2006/2007 kobe exceeds it.
they diff positions anyway.

im still duncan > kobe (and lbj) as of 2015



how can anyone take you srsly when your username is thecurrymamba and you registered only so u can troll a sports subsection of a subsection in a body building forum.

just lol man, go to realgm or somethingMe? Troll? The real question is how can anyone take you srsly when

"Stigma (which is irrational) seems to be only reason ****philia is held in disdain."
-notwilliam

fkn lol

Slats7
07-11-2016, 04:12 PM
Farewell Timmy.

Lastro
07-11-2016, 07:48 PM
great post. will rep on recharge.

i havent posted in the sports misc much so far, but i must ask: is beatmode a troll?

TaeBoNinja
07-11-2016, 09:04 PM
Lettuce bee reality.

Duncan led the only Dream Team that lost gold

Kobe led Team USA back and won 2 straight.

Kobe > Duncan

biggquis
07-11-2016, 10:59 PM
media award of peace.

LMAO @ it being a media award. Did you say that about your boy Steph winning unanimously?

tekkenbruh
07-12-2016, 12:31 AM
great post. will rep on recharge.

i havent posted in the sports misc much so far, but i must ask: is beatmode a troll?

He's not. He's just living in a bubble which is impregnable to any logic. Possibly autistic too

JustBulk
07-12-2016, 04:53 AM
.As one can see, Duncan is probably the best rebounder of all the "great" PFs/Centers in the last 20 years. The only guys that beat him are guys like Rodman, 29.6% and Dwight Howard, 29.6% - two centers.


As one can see, OP is probably a phaggot who reads boxscores and watches highlight reels-seeing Rodman take on Shaq and Frank Brickowski, concludes that Rodman is a center.

JustBulk
07-12-2016, 04:56 AM
Yeah because people wanna scream a fukin Power Forwards name when shooting around in a backyard.

Heard of Barkley?

Sema2015
07-12-2016, 06:51 AM
Act like demanding a trade without actually leaving and going down with the ship for 2 consecutive lottery seasons (when he could easily be ring whoring like Lechoke and his savior) is tantamount to ACTUALLY leaving for TWO times, including AFTER losing in the finals for the franchise who he promised 8 rings, brehs.

http://imgur.com/CEwPZKJ.jpg

Actions speak louder than words breh.

I love how all Kobe fans ignore the extreme differences in organizations the two played for.

Kobe had great players alongside him. When he didn't? He demanded a trade until they got him some.

Whereas, LeBron spent 7 years with a team and the best player they got for him during that whole time was Mo Williams. He never cried publicly. He just left.

It's really ironic too because anybody who makes a big deal about LeBron joining up with great players, would do the exact same thing in their own career field.

GotNext
07-12-2016, 08:55 AM
I love how all Kobe fans ignore the extreme differences in organizations the two played for.

Kobe had great players alongside him. When he didn't? He demanded a trade until they got him some.

Whereas, LeBron spent 7 years with a team and the best player they got for him during that whole time was Mo Williams. He never cried publicly. He just left.

So in your mind LeBron leaving the Cavs was better for the Cavs than Kobe demanding help, getting some and staying was for the Lakers? LMAO, you delusional phuck.

Ask any pre-2015 Cavs fan and they will tell you they would have preferred LeBron staying and forcing the front office to get help.

WrestlingFan123
07-12-2016, 10:26 AM
Duncan has the better career

He won his 2nd championship with twilight David Robinson and Stephen Jackson as his #2.

veggie530
07-12-2016, 10:33 AM
You left out...

NBA Player Salaries

1. Kobe Bryant $25m

143. Tim Duncan $5m

Cliffs: one took a massive pay cut to keep the team together and recruit more talent. The other continues to suck his team dry while complaining to front office about the lack of talent.

While that's cool, Duncan cucking himself isn't something everyone should do. What's good for the goose isn't good for the gander

Statistically though, Duncan > Kobe

sknot1454
07-12-2016, 10:44 AM
If you think Kobe was a better player than Duncan, you're seriously retarded.

I'm not even looking at the offensive numbers, this takes the cake.

DWS Career leaders.

1. Bill Russell 133.64
2. Tim Duncan 106.34
45. Kobe Bryant 50.66

You can't get into the top 10 with a ****ing 50. To be GOAT, you have to be GOAT both ways.


Duncan is the best PF ever. Arguably a top 5 player of all time.

Kobe isn't top 5. He's not even the best at his position.

CobyWan
07-12-2016, 10:48 AM
LMAO @ it being a media award. Did you say that about your boy Steph winning unanimously?


Lmao. What about last season when James Harden won the player voted MVP?


Beastmode consistency of peace. This is what happens when you constantly switch around your reasoning to fit your agenda.

OneCheekyKuntM8
07-12-2016, 10:52 AM
duncan is better, if you think otherwise, you're a cuck

statistically better
just as much of a winner, has been a winner his whole career
has been the best player on his team, kobe has 5 championships because lets face it, shaq carried the living crap out of the lakers. dont think so? check the stats and look at shaq's PPG, RPG, FG% for each finals series for each championship he won with the lakers.
is pretty much unanimously the GOAT for the PF position
longevity of peace and prosperity. played a very lengthy career and has been great the entire time.

they are somewhat close to each other on the GOAT list, but duncan for sure has the edge on kobe.

lsiberian
07-12-2016, 10:56 AM
Duncan has the better career

He won his 2nd championship with twilight David Robinson and Stephen Jackson as his #2.

Ginobli was the real #2 in the playoff run. The same Ginobli that beat team USA.

bigdeadlift
07-12-2016, 01:42 PM
only lakers fans and kobe cucks would say he had the better career, objectively duncan wins everytime.

Marombeiro97
07-12-2016, 01:46 PM
Duncan molded and mentored Kawhi Leonard during his late years leaving a future Superstar , Kobe went out with a bang and left a random ass team with a snitch being the best player

Dominik
07-13-2016, 02:28 AM
While that's cool, Duncan cucking himself isn't something everyone should do. What's good for the goose isn't good for the ganderHelped keep the team together and win another championship. Got him ring #5.

Sure beats demanding a max contract out of loyalty in your twilight years while complaining about a lack of talent.

Sema2015
07-13-2016, 07:14 AM
So in your mind LeBron leaving the Cavs was better for the Cavs than Kobe demanding help, getting some and staying was for the Lakers? LMAO, you delusional phuck.

Ask any pre-2015 Cavs fan and they will tell you they would have preferred LeBron staying and forcing the front office to get help.

Better for the Cavs? What are you talking about?

I'm talking about LeBron. It was the best decision for LeBron. And obviously LeBron talked internally with the Cavs and told them to get him some help. He didn't do it publicly like a little bish. But they never did. Because the organization was chit that lucked into getting LeBron. Kobe didn't deal with a chit organization until these last couple years (where he contributed to the chittiness).

Sema2015
07-13-2016, 07:17 AM
After seeing how Duncan played against the Heat both those years you have to have this conversation. Before 2013, it was Kobe and my mind was made up but Tim Duncan was putting up legendary games during those two years and he still might be able to contend Spurs might even take the whole thing albeit, doubtful. But let's get down to the facts, ya pusses.

http://i.imgur.com/I3Er05F.jpg

They played in the same stacked conference. Both had excellent, excellent teams their entire career. Both learned and operated under mastermind coaches. So tell me why does Kobe have an entire season of dominance over Tim? Six teams more he was able to thwart with his squad. Who has the recipe? They both have five rings. At the end of the day the win is the main goal. You have to think about who the better leader is. Kobe's always been a floor general and he's uncompromising. He sees the game clearer than anybody and will make decisions late in game that he think will win the game. Tim Duncan lets Popovich run the show entirely and doesn't have that unrelenting belief in himself. The way I see it, Kobe has always been the most intelligent player to have played this game and has always gone out of his way to win, more so than any player before him. If Kobe were taking paycuts to acquire better players his entire career like Tim where would he be

You can talk stats all you want but when you realize the most dominant player of all time with unparalleled stats doesn't even have half the ring Kobe or Duncan have you should then understand that it's how the team ran. Only thing that matters is how the team's coming and who ends up taking the whole thing pussayz. Always will have more respect for Kobe, Tim is right there. Both genius and ruthless competitors but Kobe was always able to affect any given game to a larger extent.

Holy chit at the amount of delusion right here.

Fukkin lmao

cashinout
07-13-2016, 07:18 AM
3 daughters is how god punishes men like Kobe

GotNext
07-13-2016, 07:36 AM
Better for the Cavs? What are you talking about?

I'm talking about LeBron. It was the best decision for LeBron. And obviously LeBron talked internally with the Cavs and told them to get him some help. He didn't do it publicly like a little bish. But they never did. Because the organization was chit that lucked into getting LeBron.

Please, tell us more about those closed door meetings between LeBron and the Cavs management. You NSA, bruh?

Sema2015
07-13-2016, 07:51 AM
Please, tell us more about those closed door meetings between LeBron and the Cavs management. You NSA, bruh?

Doesn't take an insider to realize LeBron has a huge say in personnel without crying about it to the media.

Are you retarded?

veggie530
07-13-2016, 01:05 PM
Helped keep the team together and win another championship. Got him ring #5.

Sure beats demanding a max contract out of loyalty in your twilight years while complaining about a lack of talent.

Yeah, but ripple effect. Duncan takes less cash and that impacts the negotiations of every other player in the league.

Your point about Kobe doesn't fall on deaf ears, though. Or the value of Duncan's decision to his team and as a demonstration of his character.

waias15
07-13-2016, 01:15 PM
Cliffs:

Tim Duncan > Kobe Bryant

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/67/cf/18/67cf18b42dc304aaa0f459be98a6237c.jpg

Spill512
07-13-2016, 01:18 PM
Kobe already won 5 championships without cheating the system. If he tried to buy championships with millions of dollars in the form of salary manipulation aka paycuts, it wouldn't have even been fair.

GotNext
07-13-2016, 01:25 PM
Doesn't take an insider to realize LeBron has a huge say in personnel without crying about it to the media.

Are you retarded?

Has a huge say in personnel
Doesn't get help

Are you retarded?

Sema2015
07-13-2016, 01:31 PM
Has a huge say in personnel
Doesn't get help

Are you retarded?

Wat

It all goes back to my original point about how bad Cleveland's organization was.

TexasMajor
07-13-2016, 02:43 PM
Duncan is the best PF ever. Arguably a top 5 player of all time.

HAAHAHHAHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH HQHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHOLY****Hhahahahhahaha hahhahahahhaha

sdballer5588
07-13-2016, 07:22 PM
HAAHAHHAHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH HQHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHOLY****Hhahahahhahaha hahhahahahhaha

Was this actually something you laughed at? Like be honest.

JaredtheMan
07-13-2016, 07:27 PM
The awesome thing about Duncan is that he passes the eye test, the metrics back him, and he has the accolades to support his claim to the iron throne.

Kobe > Duncan regardless. Kobes just a stone cold killer that Duncan could never reach. Their h2h matchups have always been in favor of the Lakers and Duncan just lacks the competitiveness and killer instinct the black mamba had

sknot1454
07-13-2016, 07:31 PM
Was this actually something you laughed at? Like be honest.

#2 career DWS

#3 defensive rating

#6 career OWS

#4 career rebounds

#11 career offensive rebounds

#6 career blocks

#13 PER

#17 points

#9 defense rebound %

#6 win shares

#12 box +/-

#6 VORP

5 rings

.710 record

19 straight playoff teams

2 mvps

3 finals mvp

8 time 1st team defense

9 time 1st team all nba

For someone to suggest he's not top 5 or arguably top five means they literally know nothing about basketball, or they're a Lakers fan, which is pretty much the same thing.

WildBill112
07-13-2016, 07:48 PM
The awesome thing about Duncan is that he passes the eye test, the metrics back him, and he has the accolades to support his claim to the iron throne.

Kobe > Duncan regardless. Kobes just a stone cold killer that Duncan could never reach. Their h2h matchups have always been in favor of the Lakers and Duncan just lacks the competitiveness and killer instinct the black mamba had

Better Accolades
Better Stats
Better metrics

literally nothing supports the argument that kobe is better, yet for some reason delusional retards like people in this thread will say kobe is the goat. the goat at getting carried by the best center to play the game, not making the playoffs, getting a first round exit for a few years, getting another big center then winning. but, inb4 pau gasol didn't make a difference

sknot1454
07-13-2016, 07:56 PM
Better Accolades
Better Stats
Better metrics

literally nothing supports the argument that kobe is better, yet for some reason delusional retards like people in this thread will say kobe is the goat. the goat at getting carried by the best center to play the game, not making the playoffs, getting a first round exit for a few years, getting another big center then winning. but, inb4 pau gasol didn't make a difference

Duncan led the playoffs twice in PER.

Kobe: 0

Duncan led the playoffs twice in win shares

Kobe: 1

Duncan led the playoffs twice in VORP

Kobe: 0

Finals PER

Duncan: 26.8

Kobe: 21.6

Finals offensive rating

Duncan > Kobe

Finals eFG%

Duncan > Kobe

Finals TS%

Duncan > Kobe

nikonD70s
07-13-2016, 08:00 PM
u guys are really comparing 2 diff style of player and diff positions? of course duncan will have the better fg % and better rebounds and blocks. its like comparing apple to an orange. duncan overall had a better team then bryant. duncan been playing in the same system all his career with tony/manu. duncan never really played with scrubs. kobe played with so many diff coaches and players. duncan was the best PF in his era maybe the best ever its debatable. bryant was the best SG in his era. stats only looks good on paper. doesnt tell the whole story. lebron has killer stats. but watching him play u can see why his stats are so good. brb layup and dunks. brb hold the ball drive in and if cant get a layup dish it out. do that 50 times a game u are bound to get many assist. why u think most players become spot up shooters playing with lebron? but of course u phaggots think stats are everything.

sknot1454
07-13-2016, 08:14 PM
u guys are really comparing 2 diff style of player and diff positions?

When ranking them on all all time list, yes.

Duncan is the best PF ever. Kobe is the best SG since Mike.

The key is the phrase being "since Mike".

Best 5 players in NBA history at their positions

1. Magic
2. Mike
3. LeBron
4. Timmy
5. Kareem

Duncan is starting. Kobe is on the bench.