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View Full Version : 2015-16 NBA GM survey has 53.6% of GMs predicting Cavs to win title. LeBron 5th MVP



srom12
10-20-2015, 07:34 AM
http://www.nba.com/news/features/john_schuhmann/nba-com-2015-16-gm-survey/



Stephen Curry 7.1% of votes for MVP.

DaHipsterDoofus
10-20-2015, 07:36 AM
53.6% of GMs forgot his jumpshot is fading faster than his hairline.

mlift11
10-20-2015, 07:38 AM
i agree that it's unlikely curry wins again

BeastModeFTW
10-20-2015, 07:58 AM
gm's will be wrong like usual. picked lebron to win mvp the last 2 years and picked the spurs and heat to win the titles the last 2 years. gm's are full of chit. these same clowns had lebron as the most athletic player in the league last year. phucking lol.

YWOC
10-20-2015, 08:11 AM
Yeah just like last year

srom12
10-20-2015, 08:29 AM
Yeah just like last year

Derrick Rose most likely to wear a suit more often than a jersey during 2015-16 NBA season.

YWOC
10-20-2015, 08:33 AM
Derrick Rose most likely to wear a suit more often than a jersey during 2015-16 NBA season.

ur so fukkin mad rite now

ClutchAnalyst
10-20-2015, 08:40 AM
gm's will be wrong like usual. picked lebron to win mvp the last 2 years and picked the spurs and heat to win the titles the last 2 years. gm's are full of chit. these same clowns had lebron as the most athletic player in the league last year. phucking lol.

They aren't full of chit, they just know the media panel will suck lebron off any chance they get so he has an advantage

HtotheOV
10-20-2015, 08:47 AM
he should already have 5 MVPs

NYPat
10-20-2015, 08:48 AM
GM opinions matter unless they pick LeBron.

MirinMyTraps
10-20-2015, 08:56 AM
IN 4 wizardry of OP

FGCHENG
10-20-2015, 09:01 AM
Why is this news? Cavaliers should be favorite to win because they guaranteed to get out of the East once again...

West has 5 teams who has a legitimate shot of winning a NBA title, but only one of those teams makes it to the Finals.

If the Rockets played in the East, and Cavaliers, Spurs, Clippers, OKC, and Warriors play in the West, Rockets would be the favorites to win the NBA title because they're 99.8% likely to come out of the East.

They're just playing the odds here, this is a non-story. It's basic math.

NYPat
10-20-2015, 09:34 AM
Why is this news? Cavaliers should be favorite to win because they guaranteed to get out of the East once again...

West has 5 teams who has a legitimate shot of winning a NBA title, but only one of those teams makes it to the Finals.

If the Rockets played in the East, and Cavaliers, Spurs, Clippers, OKC, and Warriors play in the West, Rockets would be the favorites to win the NBA title because they're 99.8% likely to come out of the East.

They're just playing the odds here, this is a non-story. It's basic math.

Nah it's because they believe that LeBron and the Cavs are better than everyone else. Put the Rockets in the East and they'd still pick LeBron and the Cavs.

FGCHENG
10-20-2015, 09:36 AM
Nah it's because they believe that LeBron and the Cavs are better than everyone else. Put the Rockets in the East and they'd still pick LeBron and the Cavs.

Yes they would, but that's because the Rockets are not as good as the Cavs. Put Warriors, Spurs, Clippers, or OKC in Rockets place and they play in the East along with the Cavs, any of those teams would be Favorited over the Cavs to come out of the East.

The Cavaliers are the 4-5th best team in the NBA, and undoubtedly the best team in the East by a long shot.

Sikhveins
10-20-2015, 09:37 AM
This is his last year to prove everyone wrong. Can't keep hyping someone who can't finish, it's the same story line every preseason for this guy.

broboma2012
10-20-2015, 09:38 AM
Yeah just like last year

Lebron 10x preseason mvp

FGCHENG
10-20-2015, 09:40 AM
This is his last year to prove everyone wrong. Can't keep hyping someone who can't finish, it's the same story line every preseason for this guy.

If he loses again this year.. oh man

Spill512
10-20-2015, 09:47 AM
Why is this news? Cavaliers should be favorite to win because they guaranteed to get out of the East once again...

West has 5 teams who has a legitimate shot of winning a NBA title, but only one of those teams makes it to the Finals.

If the Rockets played in the East, and Cavaliers, Spurs, Clippers, OKC, and Warriors play in the West, Rockets would be the favorites to win the NBA title because they're 99.8% likely to come out of the East.

They're just playing the odds here, this is a non-story. It's basic math.

FadeCheng providing crucial insight once again.

That's basic odds. The more contenders in a conference, the more they bring each others chances down. Cavs are the only contenders in the East.

BJohnny1988
10-20-2015, 10:16 AM
If he loses again this year.. oh man
then he's a 2 time champion with 4 MVPs in the toughest era of basketball.
not a bad resume if he were to drop dead today.

plus he lived up to every bit of his hype coming out of high school.

ClutchAnalyst
10-20-2015, 10:26 AM
then he's a 2 time champion with 4 MVPs in the toughest era of basketball.
not a bad resume if he were to drop dead today.

plus he lived up to every bit of his hype coming out of high school.



This is definitely not the toughest era of basketball.

Also he was way overhyped.

Spill512
10-20-2015, 10:28 AM
then he's a 2 time champion with 4 MVPs in the toughest era of basketball.
not a bad resume if he were to drop dead today.

plus he lived up to every bit of his hype coming out of high school.

Toughest era of basketball is an interesting way to word weakest conference of basketball.

BJohnny1988
10-20-2015, 10:37 AM
Nobody remembers weak conferences.

Who the hell says Magic Johnson played in weak western conferences in the 80s and thats why he made the finals 9 times?

Nobody.


lold at this not being the toughest era of basketball.
lold at him being way overhyped….just lol at how forced the hate is at this point.

WhiteIverson3
10-20-2015, 10:40 AM
lol at toughest era of basketball. You can't even blow on someone or they'll flop

broboma2012
10-20-2015, 10:47 AM
Nobody remembers weak conferences.

Who the hell says Magic Johnson played in weak western conferences in the 80s and thats why he made the finals 9 times?

Nobody

Itp: nobody remembers what I don't want them to

Weakest deflection of all time

Also, people mention that with magic ALL THE TIME. The reason why it isn't as dominant a narrative as with James is because HE HAD A WINNING RECORD IN THE FINALS.

BJ forever a moron

BJ forever my bitch

BJohnny1988
10-20-2015, 10:48 AM
lol at toughest era of basketball. You can't even blow on someone or they'll flop
Meant toughest in terms of competition. Cant you see people above you mentioning how weak his conference is.



but by all means. If you think plays like this (the one below) make an era "tough," or has a place in this game, then go ahead, take a bump like this the next time you're playing at your local YMCA
IhQyaKWsQy8

NYPat
10-20-2015, 10:49 AM
Why is this news? Cavaliers should be favorite to win because they guaranteed to get out of the East once again...

West has 5 teams who has a legitimate shot of winning a NBA title, but only one of those teams makes it to the Finals.

If the Rockets played in the East, and Cavaliers, Spurs, Clippers, OKC, and Warriors play in the West, Rockets would be the favorites to win the NBA title because they're 99.8% likely to come out of the East.

They're just playing the odds here, this is a non-story. It's basic math.

Gotta admit I misread this earlier.

YWOC
10-20-2015, 10:51 AM
https://unimelbadventures.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/oh-boy-here-we-go-again.jpg?w=492

BJohnny1988
10-20-2015, 10:54 AM
Itp: nobody remembers what I don't want them to

Weakest deflection of all time

Also, people mention that with magic ALL THE TIME. The reason why it isn't as dominant a narrative as with James is because HE HAD A WINNING RECORD IN THE FINALS.

BJ forever a moron

BJ forever my bitch

Yea. LeBron haters ONLY bring out the weak Eastern Conference narrative on the years he loses in the finals. The years he wins, it means nothing to them.
*rolls eyes*

This phaggot lives in a dream world where he's intelligent and the theories he poses are consistent with reality.

foh

edit:
proof for the bolded please.

broboma2012
10-20-2015, 11:02 AM
Yea. LeBron haters ONLY bring out the weak Eastern Conference narrative on the years he loses in the finals. The years he wins, it means nothing to them.
*rolls eyes*


You are such a dork.

The narrative is brought up regardless.

*farts on bj's face*

BJohnny1988
10-20-2015, 11:06 AM
You are such a dork.

The narrative is brought up regardless.

*farts on bj's face*
Cringe

notWilliam
10-20-2015, 12:18 PM
Which player forces opposing coaches to make the most adjustments?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland -- 62.1%
2. Stephen Curry, Golden State -- 20.7%

not sure if serious, Curry should be ahead by a mile
inb4 ClutchAnalyst ignores this partcicular GM poll that doesnt suit his opinion when 85% of his arguments are based on GM/ex-player's opinions

fleeceitout
10-20-2015, 12:28 PM
Ok. Not sure what I'm supposed to do with this information?

dtbrehm
10-20-2015, 12:35 PM
Funny seeing posters who quote GM opinion as gospel discredit it only in instances that are pro-Lebron.

fleeceitout
10-20-2015, 12:50 PM
Funny seeing posters who quote GM opinion as gospel discredit it only in instances that are pro-Lebron.

What's there to discredit though? It means nothing.

ClutchAnalyst
10-20-2015, 01:34 PM
Which player forces opposing coaches to make the most adjustments?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland -- 62.1%
2. Stephen Curry, Golden State -- 20.7%

not sure if serious, Curry should be ahead by a mile
inb4 ClutchAnalyst ignores this partcicular GM poll that doesnt suit his opinion when 85% of his arguments are based on GM/ex-player's opinions

there's no denying that.

lebron literally hogs the ball every fkin possession and calls all the plays. he should get 100% of the votes

Spill512
10-20-2015, 01:47 PM
there's no denying that.

lebron literally hogs the ball every fkin possession and calls all the plays. he should get 100% of the votes

His own team has to make more adjustments than the other team.

Bosh literally had to learn an entirely new skillset.

wickedman
10-20-2015, 01:54 PM
Shocking, GMs watch basketball.

Marronis
10-20-2015, 02:09 PM
Of course.

Even players and coaches know cavs are gonna win it

MarioGOATmers
10-20-2015, 02:20 PM
ur so fukkin mad rite now
Rose is turning into Kobe 2.0. Not even his teammates respect nor want to play with him. Only difference is Kobe isn't an autistic socially awkward cuck.

BJohnny1988
10-20-2015, 02:21 PM
Rose is turning into Kobe 2.0. Not even his teammates respect nor want to play with him. Only difference is Kobe isn't an autistic socially awkward cuck.
and Kobe has won something.

and his MVP doesnt belong to someone else.
oh wait…CP should have won the MVP in 2008.

But yea…not the point. Kobe has rings.

WhiteIverson3
10-20-2015, 04:15 PM
Lol at CP winning an MVP. Biggest choker in the game

HarpoonBrah
10-20-2015, 04:43 PM
vengeance

the king is gonna have his army this time , lol at how he single handedly won two games and almost three.

RIP NBA

MarioGOATmers
10-20-2015, 04:56 PM
Lol at CP winning an MVP. Biggest choker in the game
Would explain why he has the best playoff stats of all time.

Day1086
10-20-2015, 05:19 PM
Most GM's are retards (look at all the awful teams in the league that perpetually remain awful), and also probably don't take these polls very seriously.

I mean, they gave votes to draymond green as the player to make most impact off the bench..... he started every single game he played in.

And even when they collectively vote Curry as the best point guard, a few potatoes are still voting him as the best SG.

These predictions are terrible every year

YWOC
10-20-2015, 05:26 PM
Most GM's are retards (look at all the awful teams in the league that perpetually remain awful), and also probably don't take these polls very seriously.

I mean, they gave votes to draymond green as the player to make most impact off the bench..... he started every single game he played in.

And even when they collectively vote Curry as the best point guard, a few potatoes are still voting him as the best SG.

These predictions are terrible every year

/thread

waisoserious
10-20-2015, 05:28 PM
they forgot to factor in lebrons choke gene

WhiteIverson3
10-20-2015, 05:33 PM
Would explain why he has the best playoff stats of all time.

And yet no rings with stacked teams

Day1086
10-20-2015, 05:35 PM
they forgot to factor in lebrons choke gene

It looks like they did actually. He didn't get a single vote for who they want to take the last shot.



> Which player would you want taking a shot with the game on the line?
1. Stephen Curry, Golden State -- 51.7%
2. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 31.0%
3. James Harden, Houston -- 10.3%
4. Carmelo Anthony, New York -- 6.9%
Last year: Kevin Durant -- 76.9%

ClutchAnalyst
10-20-2015, 05:39 PM
Most GM's are retards (look at all the awful teams in the league that perpetually remain awful), and also probably don't take these polls very seriously.

I mean, they gave votes to draymond green as the player to make most impact off the bench..... he started every single game he played in.

And even when they collectively vote Curry as the best point guard, a few potatoes are still voting him as the best SG.

These predictions are terrible every year

Well to be fair, a lot of the shytty NBA teams are shyt year after year because of market size, weather (free agency), and the difficulty to gauge and predict talent (drafts).

the MVP voting was based off what Cheng said, it's basically a numbers game. Cavs are lock (or at least a really good bet) to come out of the east.

FGCHENG
10-20-2015, 06:16 PM
It looks like they did actually. He didn't get a single vote for who they want to take the last shot.



> Which player would you want taking a shot with the game on the line?
1. Stephen Curry, Golden State -- 51.7%
2. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 31.0%
3. James Harden, Houston -- 10.3%
4. Carmelo Anthony, New York -- 6.9%
Last year: Kevin Durant -- 76.9%

God damn. Day ethering his brother's favorite player in every post.

GodbeBryant
10-20-2015, 06:17 PM
i am a fckboy.


lol at this cuck who thinks this era of basketball being played right now is the toughest the league has ever seen. LOL, just LOL. bunch of pansies who all require rest, can't play over 32mpg without complaining, complain about how 82 games are way too many in the season, complain about contact, complain about calls, flop, don't get me started about flopping ho lee fukk, ruining the sport i love to play and watch, and so many other reasons that disprove your theory of how this is the toughest era ever.

BJohnny1988
10-20-2015, 06:24 PM
lol at this cuck who thinks this era of basketball being played right now is the toughest the league has ever seen. LOL, just LOL. bunch of pansies who all require rest, can't play over 32mpg without complaining, complain about how 82 games are way too many in the season, complain about contact, complain about calls, flop, don't get me started about flopping ho lee fukk, ruining the sport i love to play and watch, and so many other reasons that disprove your theory of how this is the toughest era ever.
competition wise, it's the toughest to win championships in.

ClutchAnalyst
10-20-2015, 07:12 PM
competition wise, it's the toughest to win championships in.

hell no

BJohnny1988
10-20-2015, 07:15 PM
hell no
uhhh.
ok.

FGCHENG
10-20-2015, 07:20 PM
competition wise, it's the toughest to win championships in.

Other than Kobe, Duncan, and Lebron, name other players in this era who are even close to being GOAT status. Kobe and Duncan are ancient, so it's only Lebron now. This era is chit compared to the 80s and 90s in terms of competition. One would say it's even easier today since so many teams can win it. In the 80s, only Celtics and Lakers had a shot, in the 90s only MJ's team won it. Competition is basically wide open in today's era ready for the taking. The best players of each era usually dominated in terms of winning championships.

Just remember, Lebron could win more championships if he wanted to. He just doesn't want it bad enough.

ClutchAnalyst
10-20-2015, 07:24 PM
so it's only Lebron now.


lmfao

FGCHENG
10-20-2015, 07:27 PM
lmfao

His time is almost over, so he better win now. Anthony GOATvis is just starting to take over in a new era.

BJohnny1988
10-20-2015, 07:40 PM
Other than Kobe, Duncan, and Lebron, name other players in this era who are even close to being GOAT status. Kobe and Duncan are ancient, so it's only Lebron now. This era is chit compared to the 80s and 90s in terms of competition. One would say it's even easier today since so many teams can win it. In the 80s, only Celtics and Lakers had a shot, in the 90s only MJ's team won it. Competition is basically wide open in today's era ready for the taking. The best players of each era usually dominated in terms of winning championships.

Just remember, Lebron could win more championships if he wanted to. He just doesn't want it bad enough.
Wait…so more competition means there's worse competition?


lolwut.

Agenda not even once.

Noxema
10-20-2015, 08:17 PM
not sure if serious, Curry should be ahead by a mile


The only adjustment you can make for Curry



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Shint%C5%8D_prayer.jpg

waisoserious
10-20-2015, 09:24 PM
> Who is the toughest player in the NBA?
1. Tony Allen, Memphis -- 20.7%
2. Draymond Green, Golden State -- 17.2%
3. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 6.9%
Jimmy Butler, Chicago -- 6.9%
Zach Randolph, Memphis -- 6.9%
Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City -- 6.9%


20yrs in the league and still kickin

monica

sdballer5588
10-20-2015, 09:44 PM
The inadequacy issues are strong ITT

HandstandPushup
10-20-2015, 10:08 PM
Funny seeing posters who quote GM opinion as gospel discredit it only in instances that are pro-Lebron.Goes both ways

FGCHENG
10-20-2015, 10:18 PM
Wait…so more competition means there's worse competition?


lolwut.

Agenda not even once.

more competition =/= tougher competition. you clearly said the competition today is tougher than it has ever been before, and that's simply your opinion. how many all time greats are playing in today's league and in their prime right now? I'll wait. Only KD and Lebron comes to mind, but KD is not the same caliber as Kobe/Duncan/Lebron.

Kobe and Shaq's Lakers would easily dominate today's league, so would MJ's Bulls. Spurs has 50 years old Tim Duncan, 40 years old Ginobli and Parker, and they're still winning titles/getting #1 seed. Imagine if they were all in their prime.. that was the era Kobe played in.

BJohnny1988
10-20-2015, 11:36 PM
more competition =/= tougher competition. you clearly said the competition today is tougher than it has ever been before, and that's simply your opinion. how many all time greats are playing in today's league and in their prime right now? I'll wait. Only KD and Lebron comes to mind, but KD is not the same caliber as Kobe/Duncan/Lebron.

Kobe and Shaq's Lakers would easily dominate today's league, so would MJ's Bulls. Spurs has 50 years old Tim Duncan, 40 years old Ginobli and Parker, and they're still winning titles/getting #1 seed. Imagine if they were all in their prime.. that was the era Kobe played in.
in the era of zone defenses?
in the era where the average team is putting up more threes than the 05 Suns?

You can't will your way through this league.
You can't make your teammates cover that much ground through a pep talk in the locker room. This era is simply just better at that.

and no. Michael can't just shoot over a Kawhi Leonard or an Andre Iguodala like he could Hornacek, Starks or a Bryon Russell.

lol at saying those teams would dominate this era.
lol, ok bud. I'll take your word for it.

edit:
btw…like I care about who are all time HoF players when I make this argument.
who in the 90s is stopping Russell Westbrook? Let me guess…Michael Jordan's will again? Just LMAO.
Which 90s PG is checking Curry? CP?
MJ laughing gif

speedyclaxton
10-20-2015, 11:41 PM
I have no idea why people are fighting over these surveys..lol

I've always said that MVP is the most influential offensive player in the league, but Lebron is still the best player in the world and an offensive beast. It's actually a pretty safe bet to go for Lebron as MVP and champion because at worse he'll the finals at and worse Lebron's team will win 55 games in the east with irving out till January..These results are not surprising at all

Most Bookers have Cleveland winning too..and that's fine..They play in the east so the route to the finals is easy.

The results are not surprising at all

1. Anthony Davis would be drafter number 1 today if a redraft was to happem
2. Lebron James is the best player in the world
3. Cleveland higher chances of winning due to east being ****ty
4. kawhi Leonard best defender in the league


Seriously, these are very common opinions and shouldn't really surprise anyone.

FGCHENG
10-21-2015, 10:02 AM
in the era of zone defenses?
in the era where the average team is putting up more threes than the 05 Suns?

You can't will your way through this league.
You can't make your teammates cover that much ground through a pep talk in the locker room. This era is simply just better at that.

and no. Michael can't just shoot over a Kawhi Leonard or an Andre Iguodala like he could Hornacek, Starks or a Bryon Russell.

lol at saying those teams would dominate this era.
lol, ok bud. I'll take your word for it.

edit:
btw…like I care about who are all time HoF players when I make this argument.
who in the 90s is stopping Russell Westbrook? Let me guess…Michael Jordan's will again? Just LMAO.
Which 90s PG is checking Curry? CP?
MJ laughing gif

No one could stop Curry and Westbrook from that era, just like no one from this era can stop MJ, Ewing, David Robinson, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Hakeem the Dream, the list goes on and on and on. The game is obviously different today from previous eras but no way in hell you can say it's tougher today than it was in the 90s. The game has shifted towards outside shooting, but players in today's league would die if they had to play inside. It's just stupid as **** to compare eras when you don't have any substance behind it. You're just throwing out names and say who in the 90s can guard the best players in today's league. The same argument can be made about the players today guarding the best players from previous eras. Sure you can say the offense in today's league has gotten better because more teams adapted to Mike Dantoni's system in the mid-2000s and actually improved on it, but look at how teams plays defense today. You only have a handful of teams today who cares about defense. This is an offensive driven league, but don't let that fool you into thinking the league is tougher today just because more players shoot 3s and put more points on the scoreboard.

Also one thing is constant no matter what era you play in. The best players of that era always win championships, and a lot of them.


I have no idea why people are fighting over these surveys..lol

I've always said that MVP is the most influential offensive player in the league, but Lebron is still the best player in the world and an offensive beast. It's actually a pretty safe bet to go for Lebron as MVP and champion because at worse he'll the finals at and worse Lebron's team will win 55 games in the east with irving out till January..These results are not surprising at all

Most Bookers have Cleveland winning too..and that's fine..They play in the east so the route to the finals is easy.

The results are not surprising at all

1. Anthony Davis would be drafter number 1 today if a redraft was to happem
2. Lebron James is the best player in the world
3. Cleveland higher chances of winning due to east being ****ty
4. kawhi Leonard best defender in the league


Seriously, these are very common opinions and shouldn't really surprise anyone.

/thread

This was one of the most irrelevant threads posted on here. It means absolutely nothing. Everything the GMs said are all common knowledge.

FGCHENG
10-21-2015, 10:06 AM
And I know this is obvious, but it has to be stated for dumbasses who think today's league is tougher. The reason why the league today has shifted towards more outside shooting is because this league is lacking studs who plays inside. The best big men from this era can't even compete with mid-tier big men from the 90s.

If Charles Barkley, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, Hakeem the Dream, Shaquille O Neal, etc... played in this era, you know there would be A LOT less shooting because these big men can actually play defense, grab rebounds, and most of all SCORE in the paint.

WhoWasFeel
10-21-2015, 10:40 AM
2-4

Sikhveins
10-21-2015, 10:45 AM
2-4

2 Championships
4 MVP's

BJohnny1988
10-21-2015, 01:59 PM
No one could stop Curry and Westbrook from that era, just like no one from this era can stop MJ, Ewing, David Robinson, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Hakeem the Dream, the list goes on and on and on. The game is obviously different today from previous eras but no way in hell you can say it's tougher today than it was in the 90s. The game has shifted towards outside shooting, but players in today's league would die if they had to play inside. It's just stupid as **** to compare eras when you don't have any substance behind it. You're just throwing out names and say who in the 90s can guard the best players in today's league. The same argument can be made about the players today guarding the best players from previous eras. Sure you can say the offense in today's league has gotten better because more teams adapted to Mike Dantoni's system in the mid-2000s and actually improved on it, but look at how teams plays defense today. You only have a handful of teams today who cares about defense. This is an offensive driven league, but don't let that fool you into thinking the league is tougher today just because more players shoot 3s and put more points on the scoreboard.

Also one thing is constant no matter what era you play in. The best players of that era always win championships, and a lot of them.

I brought up the fact that there's zone defenses, a game that requires more coverage of the floor on defense AND the fact that people like Michael can't just shoot over 6'8" athletic players with 7 foot wingspans just because you think they have the will to do it. Somehow, from that, you got that I was "just" name dropping players and saying who couldn't guard who WHEN YOU brought up which players of this era are HoF level….derp.

lol at offense driven league today but less scoring today than the 80s and the game was played at a faster pace in the 80s….just lol




And I know this is obvious, but it has to be stated for dumbasses who think today's league is tougher. The reason why the league today has shifted towards more outside shooting is because this league is lacking studs who plays inside. The best big men from this era can't even compete with mid-tier big men from the 90s.

If Charles Barkley, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, Hakeem the Dream, Shaquille O Neal, etc... played in this era, you know there would be A LOT less shooting because these big men can actually play defense, grab rebounds, and most of all SCORE in the paint.
Offensively: Or maybe 1 on 1 iso plays (including back to basket plays) aren't efficient offense, particularly compared to pushing the pace and ball movement?

Defensively: lol at Charles being a good defender.

But wouldn't it make sense that if big men were such good defenders (some were for sure) back then that the smarter thing to do would be to stretch the floor? derp.
Maybe the game has just evolved and is better now? Possible?


Moreover, you give LeBron trouble for not having enough chips but you lean on the "greatness" of people without chips at all to validate the 90s. In doing this, you treat the greatness of each one of those superstars as if it meant their teams were great their entire career.

ex. You name drop Barkley and his greatness but he played most of his career in obscurity and only threatened for a title once.

or David Robinson who played on decent teams but never really threatened for a title (never threatened Michael for sure) until the new blood (Duncan) came in and took that team over the top.

You do this because the teams then weren't as great back then and would get washed in today's league.
I mean…Jeff Hornacek and Bryon Russel guarding Michael Jordan. I dunno if LeBron has seen a defensive matchup that weak in the playoffs in his career (a little hyperbole…kinda srs…not gonna look up every series he's ever played….you can though).

ocill88
10-21-2015, 03:06 PM
The clippers will win it all this year.

Day1086
10-21-2015, 03:19 PM
And I know this is obvious, but it has to be stated for dumbasses who think today's league is tougher. The reason why the league today has shifted towards more outside shooting is because this league is lacking studs who plays inside. The best big men from this era can't even compete with mid-tier big men from the 90s.

If Charles Barkley, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, Hakeem the Dream, Shaquille O Neal, etc... played in this era, you know there would be A LOT less shooting because these big men can actually play defense, grab rebounds, and most of all SCORE in the paint.



This goes for every major sport:

I'm not sure there's ever been an era where the previous era's level of play was higher. The only thing that makes anyone believe otherwise is legend and nostalgia. It's hilariously obvious in every sport where the results are directly measurable: Track and field for example, or speed of pitching in baseball. Athletes and the knowledge of each game simply improve with each era.

The reason for 3 point shooting being the current trend in the NBA isn't because of a lack of talent.. it's because it is a flat out better style of play which previously hadn't been explored and practiced. Ballhandling, shooting, and all around skill are higher today than ever. The game evolved towards a style which is simply more effective.

a 2010's era NBA team would run a 90's era team out of the gym. A 2010's era NFL team would completely destroy a 90's era team. 2010's era baseball would dominate 90's era baseball. It's true for virtually every sport.






http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KiLCpWQceRI/TpoqsfZczkI/AAAAAAAAAjs/5tSyppkTeD0/s1600/RP+velocity.jpg

sdballer5588
10-21-2015, 03:23 PM
Efficiency is the current trend. Blanketing it as 3 point shooting is pretty stupid.

Day1086
10-21-2015, 03:23 PM
Efficiency is the current trend. Blanketing it as 3 point shooting is pretty stupid.

That's fine. He said "outside shooting" in the comment I responded to.

I can't even believe that when people watch as recent as early 2000's games they don't see the massive gap in overall level of play. Shooting, ballhandling, and defensive schemes being the most notable areas. Go back further into the past and the gap just grows and grows.

sdballer5588
10-21-2015, 03:34 PM
That's fine. He said "outside shooting" in the comment I responded to.

I can't even believe that when people watch as recent as early 2000's games they don't see the massive gap in overall level of play. Shooting, ballhandling, and defensive schemes being the most notable areas. Go back further into the past and the gap just grows and grows.

brb jordan > lebron


see you at church.

broboma2012
10-21-2015, 03:55 PM
This goes for every major sport:

I'm not sure there's ever been an era where the previous era's level of play was higher. The only thing that makes anyone believe otherwise is legend and nostalgia. It's hilariously obvious in every sport where the results are directly measurable: Track and field for example, or speed of pitching in baseball. Athletes and the knowledge of each game simply improve with each era.

The reason for 3 point shooting being the current trend in the NBA isn't because of a lack of talent.. it's because it is a flat out better style of play which previously hadn't been explored and practiced. Ballhandling, shooting, and all around skill are higher today than ever. The game evolved towards a style which is simply more effective.

a 2010's era NBA team would run a 90's era team out of the gym. A 2010's era NFL team would completely destroy a 90's era team. 2010's era baseball would dominate 90's era baseball. It's true for virtually every sport.


The game has evolved, not the athlete. If past top athletes were raised in the current era they would adapt and still be the best. The same is true vice versa. This idea really seems so stupid to talk about when attempting to discredit past player's legacies.

Not to mention that 90's baseball teams would most certainly be able to compete with the current league.sure they may not employ as many shifts but those guys were just flat out better hitters. Not only that but the 5 best pitchers of 90s would still be the 5 best pitchers today.

sdballer5588
10-21-2015, 03:59 PM
That does not change that a 2015 average NBA player is dramatically better than the 1995 average NBA player. Your baseball reference is also just proving the point, your only example of past era's being better is an era OPENLY called the "steroid era". Nice work Sherlock.

Day1086
10-21-2015, 03:59 PM
The game has evolved, not the athlete. If past top athletes were raised in the current era they would adapt and still be the best. The same is true vice versa. This idea really seems so stupid to talk about when attempting to discredit past player's legacies.

Not to mention that 90's baseball teams would most certainly be able to compete with the current league.sure they may not employ as many shifts but those guys were just flat out better hitters. Not only that but the 5 best pitchers of 90s would still be the 5 best pitchers today.

Not that I care to talk baseball but I'm sure them being better hitters had nothing to do with consistently facing weaker pitching.

Athletes haven't changed? Explain how almost every track and field world record from 30 years ago wouldn't even qualify for the olympics today. Specific reasons (technology, training) can't be specifically cornered, too many factors, but we can see that the athletes today are significantly better. If the reason is because of how they train, who cares? They're still better than whatever the past generation was doing. We progress based on past knowledge. Each successive generation gets better.

I don't really care for "if they came up with today's training" arguments, because that isn't what is typically being discussed. We're talking about a direct comparison of what the players were when somebody says something like "90's era team would chit on 2010's era team." Which is a common sentiment. I'm not giving hypotheticals of "well they could have been better if.." they simply weren't better. Period.

GodbeBryant
10-21-2015, 04:20 PM
and no. Michael can't just shoot over Andre Iguodala

/thread.

mj can't score on andre iguodala.

BJohnny1988
10-21-2015, 04:30 PM
yup.

looks like what I said verbatim.

broboma2012
10-21-2015, 04:33 PM
Not that I care to talk baseball but I'm sure them being better hitters had nothing to do with consistently facing weaker pitching.

Athletes haven't changed? Explain how almost every track and field world record from 30 years ago wouldn't even qualify for the olympics today. Specific reasons (technology, training) can't be specifically cornered, too many factors, but we can see that the athletes today are significantly better. If the reason is because of how they train, who cares? They're still better than whatever the past generation was doing. We progress based on past knowledge. Each successive generation gets better.

I don't really care for "if they came up with today's training" arguments, because that isn't what is typically being discussed. We're talking about a direct comparison of what the players were when somebody says something like "90's era team would chit on 2010's era team." Which is a common sentiment. I'm not giving hypotheticals of "well they could have been better if.." they simply weren't better. Period.

Right. The point becomes nearly irrelevant because if it is external factors (training, drug use, etc) then players of the past would have the same access to them as players today and would likewise see equal increases in performance.

The biggest factor in track and field improvement has more to do with science than the athletes themselves. The athlete is the same. The environment they practice their sport in is different.

In what world are you not entertaining hypotheticals btw? using the word would should be a dead giveaway.

Somehow having access to more resources to improve performance in your sport is a disadvantage. I will never understand that argument

sdballer5588
10-21-2015, 04:35 PM
Right. The point becomes nearly irrelevant because if it is external factors (training, drug use, etc) then players of the past would have the same access to them as players today and would likewise see equal increases in performance.

The biggest factor in track and field improvement has more to do with science than the athletes themselves. The athlete is the same. The environment they practice their sport in is different.

That literally does nothing to change that a player in 85 is worse at basketball than a player in 2015.


Go back to watching Ted Talks you dumbass.

Day1086
10-21-2015, 04:38 PM
Right. The point becomes nearly irrelevant because if it is external factors (training, drug use, etc) then players of the past would have the same access to them as players today and would likewise see equal increases in performance.

The biggest factor in track and field improvement has more to do with science than the athletes themselves. The athlete is the same. The environment they practice their sport in is different.


Point is 2015 basketball is better than 1990 basketball, regardless of the reasoning.

In basketball specifically it's more of a skill gap than the raw athleticism gap of sports like football or track. Players in the 90's couldn't dribble or shoot. The offensive and defensive schemes were also much less complex. Maybe they'd be better at dribbling and shooting if they practiced the same way today's players did growing up... but they didn't. So they were worse. That's it.

broboma2012
10-21-2015, 04:42 PM
That does not change that a 2015 average NBA player is dramatically better than the 1995 average NBA player. Your baseball reference is also just proving the point, your only example of past era's being better is an era OPENLY called the "steroid era". Nice work Sherlock.

That doesn't change the fact that the average late 90's/early 00s hitter is better than the average 2015 hitter.

See what I did there

broboma2012
10-21-2015, 04:45 PM
Point is 2015 basketball is better than 1990 basketball, regardless of the reasoning.

In basketball specifically it's more of a skill gap than the raw athleticism gap of sports like football or track. Players in the 90's couldn't dribble or shoot. The offensive and defensive schemes were also much less complex. Maybe they'd be better at dribbling and shooting if they practiced the same way today's players did growing up... but they didn't. So they were worse. That's it.

Ok, if you want to hold an opinion without reason then that's your shyt.

Day1086
10-21-2015, 04:56 PM
Ok, if you want to hold an opinion without reason then that's your shyt.

I gave the reasoning, my first sentence I guess would more effectively be "the reasoning for the reasoning" lol

2015 basketball is better because the players are more skilled. I don't care what the reason for them being more skilled is. (aka the training and knowledge of the game)

broboma2012
10-21-2015, 05:04 PM
I gave the reasoning, my first sentence I guess would more effectively be "the reasoning for the reasoning" lol

2015 basketball is better because the players are more skilled. I don't care what the reason for them being more skilled is. (aka the training and knowledge of the game)

Yeah, you only want the reason that benefits your bias. essentially we are agreeing you are hesitant to acknowledge that the development has been outside of the athlete. That distinction matters whether you want to admit it or not.

Day1086
10-21-2015, 05:08 PM
Yeah, you only want the reason that benefits your bias. essentially we are agreeing you are hesitant to acknowledge that the development has been outside of the athlete. That distinction matters whether you want to admit it or not.

Is basketball played at a higher level in 2015 or 1990? yes or no

No reasoning necessary. FGcheng explicitly said the 1990's were better. No rationale of "if they had better training they'd be better." Just "they were better"

sdballer5588
10-21-2015, 05:09 PM
Broboma is arguing a point no one was ever arguing. 2015 is better than 1990.

speedyclaxton
10-21-2015, 05:14 PM
there's people out there that think 90's players are better than 2015..LMAO

- back when one hand dunks were exciting
- ****ty offense

dying here...

**** is so stupid

2015>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 90's ball...

90's ball

So tough so mean..lol so many ****ty narratives..oh but but hard fouls..

broboma2012
10-21-2015, 05:16 PM
Is basketball played at a higher level in 2015 or 1990? yes or no

No reasoning necessary. FGcheng explicitly said the 1990's were better. No rationale of "if they had better training they'd be better." Just "they were better"

Did he even say that? All I saw him talking about is tougher which a stupid intangible discussion any way.

BJohnny1988
10-21-2015, 05:17 PM
there's people out there that think 90's players are better than 2015..LMAO

- back when one hand dunks were exciting
- ****ty offense

dying here...

**** is so stupid

2015>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 90's ball...

90's ball

So tough so mean..lol so many ****ty narratives..oh but but hard fouls..
lmao.

Day1086
10-21-2015, 05:21 PM
Did he even say that? All I saw him talking about is tougher which a stupid intangible discussion any way.

100% sure based on the context of what he's saying he was using "tougher" to mean "better"

"tougher" as in "harder to win during" "tougher competition"


Certainly not whatever you've been arguing

BJohnny1988
10-21-2015, 05:23 PM
competition wise, it's the toughest to win championships in.

the term toughness for the sake of this thread was clarified on Page 2.

carry on.

truth223
10-21-2015, 05:28 PM
then he's a 2 time champion with 4 MVPs in the toughest era of basketball.
not a bad resume if he were to drop dead today.

plus he lived up to every bit of his hype coming out of high school.

toughest era of basketball? negged

sdballer5588
10-21-2015, 05:29 PM
toughest era of basketball? negged

You have literally no idea what you are saying. Ever.

broboma2012
10-21-2015, 05:32 PM
100% sure based on the context of what he's saying he was using "tougher" to mean "better"

"tougher" as in "harder to win during" "tougher competition"


Certainly not whatever you've been arguing

Not what you have been arguing either then. Tougher competition is not the same thing as saying the average basketball player then is better than the average basketball player now. Saying one era is more competitive is a relative comparison within each era. Not what a 2015 team would do to a 95 team

truth223
10-21-2015, 05:48 PM
You have literally no idea what you are saying. Ever.

And you do? Fuk outta here with your lebron is the greatest ever horsechit.

Day1086
10-21-2015, 06:07 PM
Not what you have been arguing either then. Tougher competition is not the same thing as saying the average basketball player then is better than the average basketball player now. Saying one era is more competitive is a relative comparison within each era. Not what a 2015 team would do to a 95 team

Except you're wrong again because he was talked about what would happen if 90's players and teams played against 2015 competition.

Just go to a different thread bruh you off track in this one. Clearly didn't read chit ITT

broboma2012
10-21-2015, 06:27 PM
Except you're wrong again because he was talked about what would happen if 90's players and teams played against 2015 competition.

Just go to a different thread bruh you off track in this one. Clearly didn't read chit ITT

Where does he say the 90's era was better than the current?

I honestly don't give a shyt about fccheng was talking about. You decided to go off on a tangent and are now backtracking because you didn't like the implications of what you were saying.

Fist-Of-Freedom
10-21-2015, 06:49 PM
That's why LeClanks "legacy" means nothing. If he played in the west, he simply wouldn't even make it to the finals.

LeEastern conference, LeEastern coast to the finals,













































LeEastern 2/7

sdballer5588
10-21-2015, 07:11 PM
Where does he say the 90's era was better than the current?

I honestly don't give a shyt about fccheng was talking about. You decided to go off on a tangent and are now backtracking because you didn't like the implications of what you were saying.

Dude you are honestly an embarrassing person to read your posts. You didn't read chit and are now like 2 pages into a made up argument that no one brought up and now you're apparently so tangled up in that you didn't know what you were talking about, that you are convincing yourself you were correct and that people are like, afraid to argue your phenomenally stupid points, which again, no one has ever argued in this thread.


You try too hard.

broboma2012
10-21-2015, 07:39 PM
Dude you are honestly an embarrassing person to read your posts. You didn't read chit and are now like 2 pages into a made up argument that no one brought up and now you're apparently so tangled up in that you didn't know what you were talking about, that you are convincing yourself you were correct and that people are like, afraid to argue your phenomenally stupid points, which again, no one has ever argued in this thread.


You try too hard.

This goes for every major sport:

I'm not sure there's ever been an era where the previous era's level of play was higher. The only thing that makes anyone believe otherwise is legend and nostalgia. It's hilariously obvious in every sport where the results are directly measurable: Track and field for example, or speed of pitching in baseball. Athletes and the knowledge of each game simply improve with each era

Here is the statement your brother made that I had contention with. Your brother entered this concept into the conversation. Bringing up fccheng' argument and hold me to it is nothing more than back tracking. Cuz if you go far enough back in this thread you have a topic of a gm survey. That's how threads work. Leave it to the guy who has come by his ignorance through years of concentrated effort to not realize that is how things work yet.


But this is par for the course. Here we are arguing about an argument. Not the substance of what is being said, but semantics. You are boring

isp
10-21-2015, 07:45 PM
PG: Kyrie/Mo/Delly
SG: Shump/JR/Joe Harris
SF: Bron/RJ/JJ
PF: Love/TT/Andy
C: Mosgov/Kaun

hopefully these phaggots can stay healthy this year

fleeceitout
10-21-2015, 08:14 PM
PG: Kyrie/Mo/Delly
SG: Shump/JR/Joe Harris
SF: Bron/RJ/JJ
PF: Love/TT/Andy
C: Mosgov/Kaun

hopefully these phaggots can stay healthy this year

Won't make a difference tbh, lebron will still find a way to lose.

Fist-Of-Freedom
10-21-2015, 08:17 PM
Won't make a difference tbh, lebron will still find a way to lose.

After all, it is one of the few things he does best.

fleeceitout
10-21-2015, 08:44 PM
After all, it is one of the few things he does best.

Well at least the Lebronies can take comfort in the fact they were right about him becoming the GOAT. He's definitely cemented his spot as the GOAT loser.

Poppingtags
10-21-2015, 09:49 PM
Doesn't even matter. What really matters is SDballer has finally admitted LeBron is a choker

Lance5678
10-21-2015, 10:30 PM
OKC winning the title

Lebron for MVP

MarioGOATmers
10-21-2015, 10:55 PM
hell no

I'm sure it was harder when there were fewer teams, fewer players, fewer games needed to win in the playoffs, and players were in general less skilled and less athletic.

Day1086
10-22-2015, 01:17 AM
Here is the statement your brother made that I had contention with. Your brother entered this concept into the conversation. Bringing up fccheng' argument and hold me to it is nothing more than back tracking. Cuz if you go far enough back in this thread you have a topic of a gm survey. That's how threads work. Leave it to the guy who has come by his ignorance through years of concentrated effort to not realize that is how things work yet.


But this is par for the course. Here we are arguing about an argument. Not the substance of what is being said, but semantics. You are boring

I really dont care whatever retarded point you were trying to make in this thread.

You failed at it. And you're apparently the only person who knows what you're even talking about.

isp
10-22-2015, 07:15 AM
Won't make a difference tbh, lebron will still find a way to lose.

you're wrong. they're going to win this year. just wait and see!

bpatel82
10-22-2015, 07:37 AM
you're wrong. they're going to win this year. just wait and see!

Cavs has chance if they bench Lebron in 4th quarter. You just hope that Blatt grows a pair to do it.

fleeceitout
10-22-2015, 08:48 AM
you're wrong. they're going to win this year. just wait and see!

2-5 incoming. Book it.

broboma2012
10-22-2015, 09:18 AM
I really dont care whatever retarded point you were trying to make in this thread.

You failed at it. And you're apparently the only person who knows what you're even talking about.

Funny you knew exactly what I was talking about 1 page ago. Now it becomes unclear once your biased logic is exposed. How convenient

HoustonMiscer
10-22-2015, 09:27 AM
Lol I live for basketball season in the Sports Misc

You guys are funny