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Karateka63
06-17-2015, 01:59 AM
Alright guys maybe I'm just being impatient but that's ok that's part of who I am. I love training my body. I've been physically active since I was a kid by being committed to martial arts. Became highly interested in body building at age 16 made a mess load of mistakes trying to figure out how to get the results I wanted. I've learned quite a bit from the mistakes I've made the more I got interested in health and fitness however I am still running into problem's cuz I want to be a personal fitness trainer and I want to be freaking good at it and I'm 23 and it's pissing me off that I vaguely know how to strength train but when it comes to maintaining my strength while cutting? I don't have a chance in hell as to what I'm doing.

I want to be clear guys, I know how to cut,

Cardio+Crap Tons Of Water-Carbs=Lean Body However if you just focus on Cardio and Eating Low Carb you lose your freaking strength gains and eventually your muscle mass -_- and then your abs will be visible but then your waay weaker then you previously were when you ended your bulk phase.

I know how to bulk,

Weight Lifting+Nutrient Dense Food+High Calorie Intake+Water n Milk= Bulked Body However if you just focus on Weight Lifting and Eating High Calorie Nutrient Dense Food's Yull Be Muscular but your ab's won't be visible at all yull have a pot belly and tho you may be lifting heavy and look muscular you will not I repeat, will not look Lean unless you possess the genetic's of a God.

People tell me I just need to eat right and count macros. :( How in the hell can I eat right and count macros when I want it all.

I wanna be lean, I wanna be strong, I wanna be fit, I wanna be natural, but everytime I'm strength training everytime I'm body sculpting I feel like I'm sacrificing one for the other.

I don't want to sacrifice strength and muscle to look lean. I don't want to sacrifice leanness to be strong and muscular. It's BS I'm confused

I need help guys. Please and Thank You.

aaron501
06-18-2015, 06:20 AM
you do realize you're suppose to keep lifting when you cut right? because you say you know how to cut but you only mention cardio...

EjnarKolinkar
06-18-2015, 06:25 AM
You sound very confused OP. Go read all the sticky topics in the losing fat and nutrition sections.

Pp8900
06-18-2015, 07:02 AM
Gotta be honest dude, judging from your picture - I'd kill for your physique. If you'd like to cut more, go for it, but you look pretty damn good and have a solid base.

Low carbs won't help you lose weight, lower calories will. Find out your maintenance and eat below it while hitting your macros. Let's say your maintenance is 2,200. That means you'd need to eat about 1,700 calories/day to lose weight. Check out these macros:

Day 1: Calories: 1,700 Fat: 60 grams Carbs: 150 grams Protein: 180 grams
Day 2: Calories: 1,700 Fat: 60 grams Carbs: 150 grams Protein: 180 grams

Now.. Day 1:
Breakfast: 2 HB eggs, toast
Lunch: Grilled chicken, sweet potato
Snack: Protein Bar
Dinner: Steak or lean beef, veggies
Snack: Protein Shake

Day 2:
Breakfast: Cereal
Lunch: Grilled Chicken
Snack: Piece of fruit
Dinner: Steak/beef/fish w/ veggies
Snack: Ice cream

The point is.. you can still hit your macros and eat carbs or ice cream or whatever. Now, I've worked to include some carbs back into my diet. I used to go carb-free.. but felt exhausted all day. I can see why people go low carb, though. Why eat a chicken sandwich and use up 200 calories for a wrap or bread when you can get the same satisfaction from a piece of chicken breast?! Find what you like and make it work for you. You don't have to restrict yourself. Now, if you have a photoshoot coming up or wanna look good a the beach this weekend, go a few days without carbs and drink a ton of water. Otherwise, eat what you like and stick below your maintenance if you wanna lose weight. It's a lot simpler than people think.

Karateka63
06-18-2015, 12:58 PM
Gotta be honest dude, judging from your picture - I'd kill for your physique. If you'd like to cut more, go for it, but you look pretty damn good and have a solid base.

Low carbs won't help you lose weight, lower calories will. Find out your maintenance and eat below it while hitting your macros. Let's say your maintenance is 2,200. That means you'd need to eat about 1,700 calories/day to lose weight. Check out these macros:

Day 1: Calories: 1,700 Fat: 60 grams Carbs: 150 grams Protein: 180 grams
Day 2: Calories: 1,700 Fat: 60 grams Carbs: 150 grams Protein: 180 grams

Now.. Day 1:
Breakfast: 2 HB eggs, toast
Lunch: Grilled chicken, sweet potato
Snack: Protein Bar
Dinner: Steak or lean beef, veggies
Snack: Protein Shake

Day 2:
Breakfast: Cereal
Lunch: Grilled Chicken
Snack: Piece of fruit
Dinner: Steak/beef/fish w/ veggies
Snack: Ice cream

The point is.. you can still hit your macros and eat carbs or ice cream or whatever. Now, I've worked to include some carbs back into my diet. I used to go carb-free.. but felt exhausted all day. I can see why people go low carb, though. Why eat a chicken sandwich and use up 200 calories for a wrap or bread when you can get the same satisfaction from a piece of chicken breast?! Find what you like and make it work for you. You don't have to restrict yourself. Now, if you have a photoshoot coming up or wanna look good a the beach this weekend, go a few days without carbs and drink a ton of water. Otherwise, eat what you like and stick below your maintenance if you wanna lose weight. It's a lot simpler than people think.

I split my bulking phases and cutting phases. I've had a vary successful (at-least to me anyway) bulking phase in the winter and I started cutting in April. I forgot to mention yes I do still weight lift using cutting parameters. I keep the rest intervals short 30 to 60 seconds and I try to hit 12 repetitions on all of my sets. I've experimented with the paleo diet and soon came to realize that the paleo diet isn't for muscle building so I tried it with cutting but then for some reason I felt leaner but when I went to hit the weights I got weaker or atleast felt weaker...so I took myself off the diet.went back to bull**** eating while only drinking water... and hello I'm hitting my original numbers again but I'm not losing any body fat at all. and again, maybe I'm just being impatient. Some bodybuilders are telling me it takes years to build a great physique. Thank You For Your Replies Guys.

The whole reason I didn't include weight lifting in the example I gave above for cutting is cutting, has everything to do with losing body fat and in some cases, size all together rather it's fat or muscle. I know that may sound far fetched especially on a muscle building forum XD but I'm telling you guys the way I literally used to train my body and all it did was create a teeter totter effect the reason why I look the way I do now is cuz I've been weight lifting on a bulk phase and then when I went to cutting I realized doing just cardio didn't work so I just used weight lifting with cutting parameters but even that is only maintaining what I've built. I'm not losing any bodyfat becouse I don't know what I'm doing when it comes to the cutting part of cutting XD that's where you guys come in.

Finnegan Bell
06-18-2015, 03:12 PM
Your goal with weight lifting during cutting should be building/maintaing muscles. So do the same thing your were doing during bulking. Decreasing the rest period to raise the heart rate is pointless and counterproductive. Because you will lift less weights and with less intensity and therefore build/maintain less muscles.

Karateka63
06-19-2015, 01:08 PM
Your goal with weight lifting during cutting should be building/maintaing muscles. So do the same thing your were doing during bulking. Decreasing the rest period to raise the heart rate is pointless and counterproductive. Because you will lift less weights and with less intensity and therefore build/maintain less muscles.

Could you please expand a bit more on what your trying to explain? If I cut the same way I bulk then I don't understand how that would be burning visceral fat. I don't weigh that much so I'm aware that lossing fat for me? is going to be challenging but if I workout on a cutting phase the same way I work out on a bulking phase, then I don't understand the transition of bulking to cutting. Simply due to the fact that you want to maintain/build muscle on a bulk phase but cutting has everything to do with losing a body fat percentage. I could gain all the muscle and strength I wanted to honestly for probably the next 3 years but if I don't factor in a cutting phase? I'll look like a powerlifter I don't want to look like a power lifter, I want to lift heavy, and I want people to look at me and go "wow he looks like a personal trainer." I know I have a long journey ahead of me.

tombaron
06-19-2015, 01:17 PM
I cut like you mentioned before, no lifting, lots of cardio, bare minimum calories no fat etc. Cut to a skinny rake.

The trick I learned this time is that very little needs to change in your exercise routine, add a small amount of cardio, lift slightly less volume but slightly higher weight.

Again your diet needn't change massively, same fat macros, slightly higher protein macros and create the deficit in the carbs.

I've done 6 months of cutting now, ain't lost a bit of strength, cut 10+ kg of fat though.

Luclin999
06-19-2015, 01:19 PM
I want to be clear guys, I know how to cut,

What is clear is that you know how to cut...poorly.

You are over complicating the process and from your own claims generally lose too much lean mass when you do it your way.

It's fairly simple.

You cut your calories to 500 or so below maintenance every day and keep working out.

Lift at the same weights (for as long as you can) that you were prior to cutting, with the same rest periods as before, however reduce the volume per set to 3-5 reps. This forces your muscles to maintain their mass while at the same time the calorie reduction forces an overall reduction of body fat.

Read the nutritional stickies to determine your ideal balance of macro nutrients while cutting in order to maintain the correct amounts of essential oils and proteins needed by your body.

karlton3
06-19-2015, 01:25 PM
Could you please expand a bit more on what your trying to explain? If I cut the same way I bulk then I don't understand how that would be burning visceral fat. I don't weigh that much so I'm aware that lossing fat for me? is going to be challenging but if I workout on a cutting phase the same way I work out on a bulking phase, then I don't understand the transition of bulking to cutting. Simply due to the fact that you want to maintain/build muscle on a bulk phase but cutting has everything to do with losing a body fat percentage. I could gain all the muscle and strength I wanted to honestly for probably the next 3 years but if I don't factor in a cutting phase? I'll look like a powerlifter I don't want to look like a power lifter, I want to lift heavy, and I want people to look at me and go "wow he looks like a personal trainer." I know I have a long journey ahead of me.

"Cutting" and "Bulking" are differentiated almost entirely by your calorie intake.

Karateka63
06-20-2015, 12:24 AM
What is clear is that you know how to cut...poorly.

You are over complicating the process and from your own claims generally lose too much lean mass when you do it your way.

It's fairly simple.

You cut your calories to 500 or so below maintenance every day and keep working out.

Lift at the same weights (for as long as you can) that you were prior to cutting, with the same rest periods as before, however reduce the volume per set to 3-5 reps. This forces your muscles to maintain their mass while at the same time the calorie reduction forces an overall reduction of body fat.

Read the nutritional stickies to determine your ideal balance of macro nutrients while cutting in order to maintain the correct amounts of essential oils and proteins needed by your body.

I'm glad you bring that up becouse it is another issue I've yet to figure out however I did chuckle a bit when you said I was over complicated the processes lol I got that alot in school XD teacher's told me I was over-thinking certain topics and subjects ect but back to the point.

How do you eat less calories and still have a significant amount energy for your workouts?

Cuz believe me I've tried cutting calories but 9 times outta 10 I'm either exhausted before my workout even starts (I'm a cart-pusher at walmart, I work 40 hours) or worse I get really light headed mid workout and I don't understand why this is because everytime I don't pay attention to calorie intake and eat till my hearts content while keeping protien, carbs, and natural sugars in mind I feel really energized but feel like crap in the morning :/ but when I do the opposite count calories along with keeping track of macros I find out more often then not I'm not eating nearly enough and it gets to the point where I'm literally afraid to eat then my workouts suffer and then I'm back to bull**** eating :/

Basically I'm looking for some help from the forum community to debunk some of the loopholes I've gotten myself into cuz I feel like Ive just barely got it all figured out for my body. Once I figure out how to train me properly? :) I can start branching out and possibly start a small client base of close friends and keep branching out. Even if I don't make a living at it, training is my passion and I want to share everything I've learned with good honest well deserved people.

DyingAtheist
06-20-2015, 02:16 AM
Nobody can help you with "loopholes" like that except yourself, your ONLY problem now is a lack of willpower. Count your calories, hit your macros, eat at a deficit, lift heavy - that is ALL there is to cutting, 100%, nothing else. No secrets anyone is about to provide to you, if you can't handle the mental aspect of counting calories and not going back to "bull**** eating" then you need to look at your own mindset before anything else.

dmacdonal9
06-20-2015, 06:55 AM
There are two things that change from cutting to bulking; calories/macros and training volume. That's it.

- When cutting you are in an energy deficit with protein a little higher than normal. When bulking you are in an energy surplus with protein a little lower than normal. Even the protein variance there is largely optional; you can keep it consistent if you like.

- When cutting you have lowered recovery ability, so you may want/need to reduce volume a little (drop a set here and there as needed). When bulking you have increased recovery ability, so make use of it and push volume a little higher.

If you manage calories, macros and volume appropriately, maintaining lean mass and training intensity on a cut is not an issue. All training variables except volume should remain consistent from cutting to bulking and vice versa.

Within that framework, cardio is not all that relevant for fat loss. Use it as a tool to increase your calorie deficit if you like.

When bulking, cardio will do nothing for fat loss if you remain in an overall energy surplus (which should be your goal). So if you do cardio on a bulk, you need to eat a little more, and it's really only relevant to maintain conditioning (which is beneficial).

You normally have to accept some fat gain on a bulk. It's extremely rare and difficult to get optimal results without some fat gain.

However, you don't have to accept muscle loss on a cut; it's completely possible to maintain if you're careful.

Luclin999
06-20-2015, 03:57 PM
How do you eat less calories and still have a significant amount energy for your workouts?

Cuz believe me I've tried cutting calories but 9 times outta 10 I'm either exhausted before my workout even starts

Willpower and getting used to it.

That's all there is to it.

You tough it out for a couple of weeks of feeling pretty bad and then you adapt to it somewhat. You will still have less energy than you would if you were eating more but you will find that you still have enough to get done what you need to do.

Karateka63
06-20-2015, 11:15 PM
Nobody can help you with "loopholes" like that except yourself, your ONLY problem now is a lack of willpower. Count your calories, hit your macros, eat at a deficit, lift heavy - that is ALL there is to cutting, 100%, nothing else. No secrets anyone is about to provide to you, if you can't handle the mental aspect of counting calories and not going back to "bull**** eating" then you need to look at your own mindset before anything else.

I call bull lol I have plenty of willpower hell I've went to snap city multiple times being motivated to change my physique I've burned through muscle mass, I've dislocated my shoulder over-estimating my max bench press, I've pulled hamstrings, and even threw up my lunch doing an HIIT class and just not listening to my body at all when it needed rest and every time I payed for it. Willpower doesn't always help you when your inexperienced. Unfortunately the only way to get Experience in anything in life is to get your hands dirty so that's what I did and I've learned from those mistakes. Those are vary physical and mental aspects. It takes alot of determination to over do it.

Now that being said I know I might sound cliche in regards the "loopholes" I'm referring to however trust me -_- if cutting and bulking was as easy as eating above or below a certain caloric deficit it would have worked for me already but it doesn't. These secrets? I'm referring too? Are how to make counting macros easier when the variables change every single day.

Example. I work at walmart as a cart pusher I work 8 hours a day 5 days a week I'm one of the best cart pushers they have, on top of that I work out 3 days a week monday wednesday and friday.

How am I supposed to know the ratio to calories burned versus calories consumed without putting all my faith into a calculator or standing there for 3 hours backtracking every single thing I did from the day I get up to the day I lay my head down. If I lose track of 1 thing -_- it screws up the entire week.

Look guys I know you love training we all do but I honestly feel like training mentally or physically should just be natural thing and maybe I'm dead wrong and that's ok but Since when did having a great physique involve being journalist.

I just want to eat healthy, train, and have a great physique but I'm learning more often then not that healthy isn't always healthy depending on how your training. :(

Muscle building on nothing but steamed Lettuce, Carrots, and Broccoli for a full month = Minimal Gains, Low Energy and Diarrhea. I've done it.

Getting Cut on mostly lean cut meat's with minimal fruits n veggies for a month = Good Energy and Constipation. I've done it.

Balancing Every Meal You Consume with Protein, Fats, Carbs, Natural Sugar, and Sodium Intake In 1 Day Versus Calories Burned/Consumed In 1 Day?

How in the hell do you guys do that in between work and the daily grind everyone goes through? That is the secret -_- I want to know that.

Counting Macros? Is not Simple.

But I will do it if I have to but I've been screwing it up ever since I first learned of the word Counting Macros and trust me if just counting calories does the trick? It would have worked by now. All I've done with that mess is loss energy, loss muscle, or feel full of energy, feel bloated, and then throw up after a workout.



Every single time i think I am doing something right I find out by somebody somewhere that Im doing it all wrong.

aaron501
06-21-2015, 09:16 AM
I call bull lol I have plenty of willpower hell I've went to snap city multiple times being motivated to change my physique I've burned through muscle mass, I've dislocated my shoulder over-estimating my max bench press, I've pulled hamstrings, and even threw up my lunch doing an HIIT class and just not listening to my body at all when it needed rest and every time I payed for it. Willpower doesn't always help you when your inexperienced. Unfortunately the only way to get Experience in anything in life is to get your hands dirty so that's what I did and I've learned from those mistakes. Those are vary physical and mental aspects. It takes alot of determination to over do it.

Now that being said I know I might sound cliche in regards the "loopholes" I'm referring to however trust me -_- if cutting and bulking was as easy as eating above or below a certain caloric deficit it would have worked for me already but it doesn't. These secrets? I'm referring too? Are how to make counting macros easier when the variables change every single day.

Example. I work at walmart as a cart pusher I work 8 hours a day 5 days a week I'm one of the best cart pushers they have, on top of that I work out 3 days a week monday wednesday and friday.

How am I supposed to know the ratio to calories burned versus calories consumed without putting all my faith into a calculator or standing there for 3 hours backtracking every single thing I did from the day I get up to the day I lay my head down. If I lose track of 1 thing -_- it screws up the entire week.

Look guys I know you love training we all do but I honestly feel like training mentally or physically should just be natural thing and maybe I'm dead wrong and that's ok but Since when did having a great physique involve being journalist.

I just want to eat healthy, train, and have a great physique but I'm learning more often then not that healthy isn't always healthy depending on how your training. :(

Muscle building on nothing but steamed Lettuce, Carrots, and Broccoli for a full month = Minimal Gains, Low Energy and Diarrhea. I've done it.

Getting Cut on mostly lean cut meat's with minimal fruits n veggies for a month = Good Energy and Constipation. I've done it.

Balancing Every Meal You Consume with Protein, Fats, Carbs, Natural Sugar, and Sodium Intake In 1 Day Versus Calories Burned/Consumed In 1 Day?

How in the hell do you guys do that in between work and the daily grind everyone goes through? That is the secret -_- I want to know that.

Counting Macros? Is not Simple.

But I will do it if I have to but I've been screwing it up ever since I first learned of the word Counting Macros and trust me if just counting calories does the trick? It would have worked by now. All I've done with that mess is loss energy, loss muscle, or feel full of energy, feel bloated, and then throw up after a workout.



Every single time i think I am doing something right I find out by somebody somewhere that Im doing it all wrong.


Counting Macros? Is not Simple.

after reading all of the above i honestly think OP is mentally challenged or a troll. people have told you what to do, it works for everyone else you are not the exception. eat in a calorie deficit, lift heavy to preserve the muscle and lose the fat.

Karateka63
06-22-2015, 09:23 PM
after reading all of the above i honestly think OP is mentally challenged or a troll. people have told you what to do, it works for everyone else you are not the exception. eat in a calorie deficit, lift heavy to preserve the muscle and lose the fat.

I might be mentally challenged XD I did have to take some special education classes in highschool but I am assuring you I am not a troll. I am legitimately either

A-not counting macros correctly.

B-training incorrectly

OR

C-expecting results to come way too fast before they even have a chance to show up

but just to humor you in an attempt to convince you Aaron501 that I am not a troll I will give you and everybody else who was nice enough to comment on this post my entire workout routine explained in detail so you will know exactly what it is I am doing in the effort to obtain the desired result which is to weigh my original weight without losing the muscle this time. I weight 134 lbs currently. Without Much Muscle? My weight was 120. My goal is to weigh 120 with all my muscle/strength gains.

that being said this is what I currently do.

Upper Body Workout

Bench - 3x12 135lbs 145lbs 155lbs (I usually hit 12 on the first two sets but my reps drop dramatically on Max Set but that's only when I have an energy surplus.)

Upright Rows - 3x12 55lbs 65lbs 75lbs (I can hit all 3 sets but like I said it's only with an energy surplus I eat under a calorie deficit my workouts suffer then I get scared)

Bent Over Rows 3x12 25lbs 30lbs 35lbs (energy surplus if I don't reps change dramatically)

Inclined Dumbbell Flys 10lbs 15lbs 20lbs (energy surplus if I don't reps change dramatically)

Front Planks 6x12 (I sometimes double up on sets and do 24 reps all at once just to knockout 2 sets)

My rest interval is 45 seconds per set.

----------------------------------------------------

Lower Body Workout

Squat Press - 3x12 155lbs 165lbs 175lbs (I can do all sets regardless of energy surplus but it is more difficult)

Dumbbell Lunges 3x12 20lbs 25lbs 30lbs (surplus or reps drop dramatically)

Dumbbell Deadlifts 3x12 20lbs 25lbs 30lbs (surplus or reps drop dramatically)

Body Weight Squats 3x12 (I can do these no problem they are implicated for Form Practice on my Squat Press.)

Side Planks (surplus or it becomes more difficult to do them properly but I can do them with or without surplus I just get shaky.)

Rest Interval is 45 seconds.

-------------------------------------------------------

That being said it is to my understand Arron501 that the outline for Strength Training is 3 sets 8-10 repetitions for a Hypertrophy response with Heavy Weight.

Rest Intervals for Strength/Muscle Building is anywhere from 60 to 90 seconds per set.

The outline for Cutting as far as I can understand has always been 3 to 5 sets, 12 to 15 repetitions while lifting heavy weight per set for a Fat Burning Response that will keep or maintain your muscle gains.

Rest Intervals for Cutting is anywhere from 30 to 45 seconds per set .

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I workout Monday, Wednesday and Friday at 11:30 p.m. going in a constant pattern of Upper Body, Lower Body, Upper Body, Lower Body, Ect...

I have been sticking to that pattern for Strength all Winter. My trouble is ever since I switched to Cutting it has proven to be more difficult for me because I do not know if I am eating correctly because everytime I cut calories I either find out that I'm burning too many calories or I find out that I'm not consuming nearly enough then I get scared I will lose my muscle gains and then I resort back to saying screw it to vegetables and fruits and go back to focusing on just protein, carbs, and sugar cuz everytime I eat at a deficit my workout suffer and I'm going to be honest with you.

I don't like it when my reps drop dramatically. It makes me feel like I will either

A-Burn off my muscle OR B-Feel like I'm not working hard enough.

So when I made this thread I am legitimately confused as to how this is all supposed to workout for me cuz My Strength Training Routine was a pretty good accomplishment for me :) but the second I started cutting in April? This Eating At A Deficit has only caused trouble for me.

I went from benching 120 lbs as a max when I started Strength/Muscle Building by April? I got to 175lbs my goal was to get passed 165 not to mention all my other numbers on my other exercises went up. But the second I started cutting and dieting that my strength started dropping a bit and worse I had nothing and still have nothing to show for it, that's why I'm pissed. Arron501

Karateka63
06-22-2015, 09:36 PM
If you can't accept that as a legitimate answer then I don't know what else to tell you guys,

I know this all may come easy to most of you guys but that's why I even bothered creating an account on bodybuilding.com I was tired of trying to find the answers by myself. I have found some pretty valuable things out about health and fitness by myself but I know I'm not going to find everything out by myself. If I'm doing something wrong please don't hesitate to tell me. If I'm leaving out information, please don't hesitate to ask me. I will cooperate with you and take everything you have to say seriously but please do not assume I am here to waste your time. I am not that kind of guy. I appreciate all of you for your feedback.

DyingAtheist
06-23-2015, 02:32 AM
Look I'll make this as simple as I possibly can.

To Cut :
Use an online calculator to find your approximate TDEE then judge whether it's accurate over a few weeks.
Eat below your TDEE by 500 calories to lose 1 pound a week.
Lift heavy.
Hit your FAT and PROTEIN macros.


NOTHING ELSE MATTERS. It doesn't matter what effort you think you expended in a single day at Walmart because one day is not relevant, the month is, the year is, your TDEE is calculated by what you believe to be your -average- workout level and nothing more, it's not a day by day diary of what you did. Obviously your strength is going to suffer on a cut, you can't burn JUST fat - if you can't handle that then don't cut. Trust me and funnily enough 99% of the Bodybuilding community when we say just counting calories DOES work and if it hasn't then the problem is on you at the moment, not the base idea.