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Jessenialove
01-15-2015, 09:04 AM
Hello ,
basically I've been working out not too long , I have made an appointment with my nutritionist , but the wait is kind of long. I lift a lot of weights. I would like to gain muscle. From what I read 60% is working out and 50% is the diet. So its really important for me to get the facts straight. I need help with what I should be eating to get the results I want and what I should avoid. ( I have a bad sweet tooth).
I really appreciate it :)

InItForFitness
01-15-2015, 09:25 AM
Read through this and do the calculations to determine your individual dietary requirements ; http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=156380183

Adjust calories according to your goal.

10-20% increase above TDEE to build mass.
10-20% decrease to cut fat.


Don't plan on doing both at the same time. It's unrealistic.


What to eat ;

Things you enjoy

What to avoid ;

Things you don't enjoy.

JerryB
01-15-2015, 09:28 AM
Applying a percentage to training and nutrition can be based on arbitrary preferences or just wild @$$ numbers. I place importance on both without some preference of one over the other. Tell your nutritionist your training goals.

You can go to the following website for estimating your TDEE


TDEE Calculator
http://iifym.com/tdee-calculator/

Texmo87
01-15-2015, 09:33 AM
Hello Jesse,

In my opinion nutrition is 80% of reaching any goals that are fitness related are accomplished by nutrition. You might spend 5-6 hours in the gym a week, the other 162 hours of the week is nutrition. having said that if you want to gain muscle, simply you have to eat more calories than your body burns off (caloric surplus). You can achieve this by figuring out your macros, have you done this before? of not I would recommend reading the stickies in the forum on calculating macros.

Once you have chosen your macro nutrients (the amount of protein, carbs, and healthy fats you consume daily) you can begin choosing foods to fill the requirements for them. For example chicken, lean cuts of beef, salmon, eggs etc for protein. Quinoa, brown rice, whole wheat bread, vegetables for carbs. Avacado's, olive oil, nuts and seeds, peanut butter for healthy fats. Once you make a meal plan you need to stick with it for a few weeks, being as consistent as you can with reaching your macros daily that you planned out. After 2-3 weeks if your not gaining any weight, congratulations you found your TDEE, which is the total amount of calories it takes to maintain your current body weight with your current activity level and fitness routine.

Now you simply need to add on 3-400 calories above your TDEE to achieve muscle gains. Stick with that for another 2-3 weeks with the new calories added, record your weight gains and adjust from there, if too much weight is being put on too fast simply lower calories, if not enough add more. Its a waiting game of being really consistent, but once you figure out the numbers its never becomes easier to reach your goals whether to gain muscle or shred body fat. Eating clean unprocessed foods is always your best bet as well, using supplements like protein to help you reach your daily protein requirements, creatine for muscle stamina, a multi vitamin to get your micronutrients, and a quality fish oil for healthy omega fats.

InItForFitness
01-15-2015, 09:38 AM
Once you have chosen your macro nutrients (the amount of protein, carbs, and healthy fats you consume daily) you can begin choosing foods to fill the requirements for them. For example chicken, lean cuts of beef, salmon, eggs etc for protein. Quinoa, brown rice, whole wheat bread, vegetables for carbs. Avacado's, olive oil, nuts and seeds, peanut butter for healthy fats.


Why are you suggesting she restrict herself to these food selections?

There's no reason to do so.


Especially not 'Lean cuts of beef'.
No thanks. I prefer my steaks fatty and full of flavor.

Texmo87
01-15-2015, 09:44 AM
Why are you suggesting she restrict herself to these food selections?

There's no reason to do so.


Especially not 'Lean cuts of beef'.
No thanks. I prefer my steaks fatty and full of flavor.

It was not telling her to stick with the selection hence why I said "for example". I was simply showing examples of each group. You can choose to eat what ever you want, and I agree with eating things you enjoy to keep you happy with what your doing. But having said that I would never discourage someone to eat clean unprocessed foods to reach their goals.

Cheers

InItForFitness
01-15-2015, 09:45 AM
It was not telling her to stick with the selection hence why I said "for example". I was simply showing examples of each group. You can choose to eat what ever you want, and I agree with eating things you enjoy to keep you happy with what your doing. But having said that I would never discourage someone to eat clean unprocessed foods to reach their goals.

Cheers

The way you format your post however, makes it come across as if these individual food selections are 'healthier' than others.

Texmo87
01-15-2015, 09:51 AM
The way you format your post however, makes it come across as if these individual food selections are 'healtheir' than others.

My apologies if that's what it seemed, definitely not trying to tell someone what they can and cannot eat, only trying to provide good examples of each group. Those were the first to pop up in my mind at the time lol.

Have a good one bud

InItForFitness
01-15-2015, 09:52 AM
only trying to provide good examples of each group.

What makes these examples 'better' than any other?

Why not a burger from McDonalds for a quality balance of protein + fat?
How about a Loaded Baked Potatoe from Wendys?

mwstoltze
01-15-2015, 09:52 AM
While I agree with the previous posts about calculating your daily needs, in the end if you truly hit the weights hard and consistently most people who have a fairly average diet will still put on their noobie gains despite their diet not because of their diet. The way I usually approach getting back into shape [which I have to do a lot because I always end up getting back out lol] is just spend the next month getting your fitness consistency back on track 100percent, no skipped workout with full intensity...during this month educate yourself as much as you can on nutrition, a nutritionist will help, so will stickies here in the forum, but in the end you just want to go out to as many sources as you can act like a sponge and soak it all up. Then taking your new found weapons of knowledge and consistency you will be set up for great success in your goals...good luck =]

ironwill2008
01-15-2015, 09:54 AM
Hello ,
basically I've been working out not too long , I have made an appointment with my nutritionist , but the wait is kind of long. I lift a lot of weights. I would like to gain muscle. From what I read 60% is working out and 50% is the diet. So its really important for me to get the facts straight. I need help with what I should be eating to get the results I want and what I should avoid. ( I have a bad sweet tooth).
I really appreciate it :)

Seriously, probably the most important thing to avoid is the advice of "nutritionists." Historically, those who ever posted in this forum pretty much touted nonsense, heresay, and outmoded information unsupported by current research.

As soon as you start hearing about egg whites, oatmeal, and brown rice, it's time to get up and leave.

InItForFitness
01-15-2015, 09:56 AM
Seriously, probably the most important thing to avoid is the advice of "nutritionists." Historically, those who ever posted in this forum pretty much touted nonsense, heresay, and outmoded information unsupported by current research.

We got it brah, you've moved up in the world...geeze! :p

ironwill2008
01-15-2015, 09:58 AM
We got it brah, you've moved up in the world...geeze! :p

Lulz.

JerryB
01-15-2015, 10:56 AM
Why are you suggesting she restrict herself to these food selections?

There's no reason to do so.


Especially not 'Lean cuts of beef'.
No thanks. I prefer my steaks fatty and full of flavor.




I agree.

And using time to weight the importance between nutrition and training is nonsense.

Texmo87
01-15-2015, 01:29 PM
What makes these examples 'better' than any other?

Why not a burger from McDonalds for a quality balance of protein + fat?
How about a Loaded Baked Potatoe from Wendys?

Still battling about this, did I say they were better than others? no I didn't, I said they were the first that popped up in my mind. As for a burger from MacDonald's or a Wendy's baked potato, why I wouldn't eat them personally because I have no clue where the meat or veggies came from or what's in it. Prime example My GF has MS and benefits huge from eating clean unprocessed foods, since ditching the grocery store meats and produce and eating wild game and or grass fed locally raised beef and locally grown veggies her symptoms have completely subsided. That's just an example, not everyone has MS and has to be so strict with their diet but it goes to show how eating clean can benefit your body.


I agree.

And using time to weight the importance between nutrition and training is nonsense.

It was a reference to the saying "nutrition is around the clock".


call out what I say all you want, in no way did I give her wrong advice nor tell her she HAD to eat those foods. I provided sound advice to her questions and provided examples as well encase she was curious. She can comprise what ever diet she likes that fits her needs and will keep her mind in the game.

InItForFitness
01-15-2015, 01:39 PM
That's just an example, not everyone has MS and has to be so strict with their diet but it goes to show how eating clean can benefit HER body.

Fixed that.

EjnarKolinkar
01-15-2015, 01:40 PM
Idk man those wendys baked potato's are pretty tasty, especially when you get two and pour a cup of chili on top of them.

Lolled at suspicious potato at resturant. Glad your girlfriend has found methods that work for her though. I however indiscriminately consume potatoes at resturants without fear.

ironwill2008
01-15-2015, 02:04 PM
As for a burger from MacDonald's or a Wendy's baked potato, why I wouldn't eat them personally because I have no clue where the meat or veggies came from or what's in it.

Last time I checked, the meat at Mickey D's comes from cows, and the spuds they sell at Wendy's come out of the ground.


As far as "what's in" any food at any fast-food place (or any other restaurant in this country, for that matter), the ingredient lists are only a couple of mouse clicks away from wherever you have internet access.

desslok
01-15-2015, 02:09 PM
ITT: the cure for MS years of research and dimes have missed

InItForFitness
01-15-2015, 02:11 PM
ITT: the cure for MS years of research and dimes have missed

ITT : McDonalds causes MS.

magician27
01-15-2015, 02:15 PM
its 100% workout 100% nutrition. lack of one wont get you result if you aim is muscle gain. eat enough protein and fat and have some common sense in your diet , then you can eat whatever you want as long as you meet your caloric needs.

Texmo87
01-15-2015, 02:16 PM
Idk man those wendys baked potato's are pretty tasty, especially when you get two and pour a cup of chili on top of them.

Lolled at suspicious potato at resturant. Glad your girlfriend has found methods that work for her though. I however indiscriminately consume potatoes at resturants without fear.

Thanks bud, its been great for her!. Of course every body enjoys eating the fast food, its delicious. I said above reasons why I wouldn't eat it, doesn't mean that I haven't or wont ever again. I really enjoy having a greasy ol burger from Mc Dicks or a poutine from A&W. Is it good for me to eat it all the time, I doubt it, which is why moderation is huge. I totally get where your coming for IIFF, you don't NEED to eat ridiculously clean 24-7 to achieve weight loss or reach your goals. I get how sick you and other people are of hearing the whole egg whites and oatmeal diet is key to fat loss etc.. Truth is people eat Junk and get ripped due to how much they monitor their macros.

My intent is not to push someone to eat super clean, but I'll also never push them away from eating clean either.

InItForFitness
01-15-2015, 02:19 PM
I totally get where your coming for IIFF, you don't NEED to eat ridiculously clean 24-7 to achieve weight loss or reach your goals. I get how sick you and other people are of hearing the whole egg whites and oatmeal diet is key to fat loss etc..

I don't get sick of hearing it by any means, because I'm intelligent enough to know it's false.

I get sick of misinformation, such as 'clean eating' being spread to new members, who come here seeking VALID advice to achieve their goals.
It's very misleading, and they don't know better, so they're very likely to believe this sort of non-sense.

ironwill2008
01-15-2015, 02:22 PM
My intent is not to push someone to eat super clean, but I'll also never push them away from eating clean either.

But the problem, and the reason why that term,"eat clean," is routinely kicked to the curb here, is that it can't be defined, at least not by any definition that reaches a consensus. All that term accomplishes here is to further-bumfuzzle beginners, who usually show up in this forum already confused in the first place.



ETA:

Post #23 beat me to it.

Texmo87
01-15-2015, 02:44 PM
Fair enough with the use of the words "clean eating" wont be used again. Regardless I feel I did not offer invalid advice, I only provided her with examples of sources of protein, carbs, and fat. You said why are my examples necessarily good examples, are they bad examples? can you not get protein from chicken, eggs, and salmon. Can you not get carbs from Quinoa, Brown rice, Whole Wheat bread? Can you not get essential fats from avocados, Olive oil, Nuts and seeds? Because I said lean cuts of steak you automatically assumed I was preaching about the foods I listed, it was just an example not a suggestion.

I realize people come here for advice, I provided what I think was good advice that she could take advantage of. If my advice is incorrect and should not be posted then I will refrain from helping people out. As far as making fun of MS, its not appreciated. Nothing wrong with calling me out if I'm wrong, that's fine I'll except it if that's the case, but don't bring that kind of non sense into this.

InItForFitness
01-15-2015, 02:47 PM
Fair enough with the use of the words "clean eating" wont be used again. Regardless I feel I did not offer invalid advice, I only provided her with examples of sources of protein, carbs, and fat. You said why are my examples necessarily good examples, are they bad examples?

Again. Post context matters.
It's not that they are "bad examples", but it's the phrasing that creates context of them being 'better' than any other option.

That's incorrect.




As far as making fun of MS, its not appreciated. Nothing wrong with calling me out if I'm wrong, that's fine I'll except it if that's the case, but don't bring that kind of non sense into this.

We're not mocking the disease, but rather the implication that "clean eating" solved an issue that research has not.

Texmo87
01-15-2015, 03:16 PM
Again. Post context matters.
It's not that they are "bad examples", but it's the phrasing that creates context of them being 'better' than any other option.

That's incorrect.





We're not mocking the disease, but rather the implication that "clean eating" solved an issue that research has not.

I totally understand what you mean, and like I said I did not mean for it to sound that way. I agree 100% there's lots of options for sources of protein, carbs, and fat. All I meant to do was provide examples. I do not wish to disagree with you as you are on here on your own time trying to help people with their questions regarding nutrition, I only would like to work along side everyone to provide any help I can offer to people.

As far as the MS comments, again I was not trying to say eating wild game or grass fed locally farmed beef and locally grown vegetables was the cure for MS. It was prescribed by her doctor to immediately cut out grocery store bought produce and meats. I only wanted to state how eating that strict can have such an impact on someone's life, who knows what would happen if everyone ate like that. Maybe less diseases and health disorders, who knows, fact is there is no cure for MS only treatment that's proven to subside symptoms, not prevent future attacks.

Cheers IIFT

loganhart
01-15-2015, 05:28 PM
Hello ,
basically I've been working out not too long , I have made an appointment with my nutritionist , but the wait is kind of long. I lift a lot of weights. I would like to gain muscle. From what I read 60% is working out and 50% is the diet.So its really important for me to get the facts straight. I need help with what I should be eating to get the results I want and what I should avoid. ( I have a bad sweet tooth).
I really appreciate it :)

Hmmm.

turningthecorne
01-15-2015, 05:42 PM
What did Texmo87 did? Calm down people.

gbullock32
01-16-2015, 12:55 AM
From what I read 60% is working out and 50% is the diet.

I really appreciate it :)Going at it with 110%? Admirable if nothing else.

Jessenialove
01-16-2015, 05:16 AM
Hello Jesse,

In my opinion nutrition is 80% of reaching any goals that are fitness related are accomplished by nutrition. You might spend 5-6 hours in the gym a week, the other 162 hours of the week is nutrition. having said that if you want to gain muscle, simply you have to eat more calories than your body burns off (caloric surplus). You can achieve this by figuring out your macros, have you done this before? of not I would recommend reading the stickies in the forum on calculating macros.

Once you have chosen your macro nutrients (the amount of protein, carbs, and healthy fats you consume daily) you can begin choosing foods to fill the requirements for them. For example chicken, lean cuts of beef, salmon, eggs etc for protein. Quinoa, brown rice, whole wheat bread, vegetables for carbs. Avacado's, olive oil, nuts and seeds, peanut butter for healthy fats. Once you make a meal plan you need to stick with it for a few weeks, being as consistent as you can with reaching your macros daily that you planned out. After 2-3 weeks if your not gaining any weight, congratulations you found your TDEE, which is the total amount of calories it takes to maintain your current body weight with your current activity level and fitness routine.

Now you simply need to add on 3-400 calories above your TDEE to achieve muscle gains. Stick with that for another 2-3 weeks with the new calories added, record your weight gains and adjust from there, if too much weight is being put on too fast simply lower calories, if not enough add more. Its a waiting game of being really consistent, but once you figure out the numbers its never becomes easier to reach your goals whether to gain muscle or shred body fat. Eating clean unprocessed foods is always your best bet as well, using supplements like protein to help you reach your daily protein requirements, creatine for muscle stamina, a multi vitamin to get your micronutrients, and a quality fish oil for healthy omega fats.

Wow nice response! this makes a lot of sense to me I will keep this as note. Thanks a lot

WonderPug
01-16-2015, 05:56 AM
What did Texmo87 did?He provided incorrect information that could mislead the OP. And the OP fell for it and now she's worse off, because she has been mislead.





OP: To start learning the basics about nutrition, please read the relevant stickies at the top of the nutrition forum as well as this:


http://d30y9cdsu7xlg0.cloudfront.net/png/38065-84.png
COMPOSING A RATIONAL DIET

Advice on diet and nutrition is often based on myths and, even more so, on the marketing message of supplement companies and self-proclaimed diet gurus with agendas contrary to your interests. Please don't allow yourself, your health, your fitness goals or your wallet to be compromised by the prevalent misinformation. Learn the basics of nutrition and start engaging in healthy, rational dietary habits that can last a lifetime.

The first step is to discard biased advice on nutrition and diet, and, in its place, embrace simple logic:



Compose a diet that ensures micronutrient and macronutrient sufficiency, derived predominantly from whole and minimally processed foods if possible, with remaining caloric intake being largely discretionary within the bounds of common sense.




Caloric Intake

Energy balance is the primary dietary driver of body weight and it also impacts body composition. A chronic surplus of calories will result in increased body weight and a chronic deficit of calories will result in a loss of body weight.

In other words, in order to gain about one pound of tissue weight (as opposed to transient flux in water weight), you need to consume a total of about 3,500 calories more than you expend. And to lose about one pound of tissue weight, you have to do the opposite -- consume about 3,500 calories less than you expend.

Thus, the first step in constructing any rational diet is to get a sense of how many calories per day, on average, you should consume in order to progress towards your goals.

The average number of calories you expend per day -- called total daily energy expenditure (TDEE) -- is a function of your basal metabolic rate (BMR) and your average weekly activity level.

To estimate your BMR, it's important to have a sense of how much lean body mass (LBM) you carry. If you're not sure, post a photo or two and we can estimate your percentage body fat and, from this number and your total body weight, it's easy to estimate LBM by using the following formula:



LBM = body weight * (1 - percentage body fat)


To estimate BMR, use the the Katch-McArdle formula:



BMR = 370 + (9.8 * LBM in pounds)
or
BMR = 370 + (21.6 * LBM in kg)


The next step is to estimate average weekly activity using the following guidelines to calculate an activity factor (AF):




• 1.1 - 1.2 = Sedentary (desk job, and little formal exercise, this will be most of you students)

• 1.3 - 1.4 = Lightly Active (light daily activity and light exercise 1-3 days a week)

• 1.5 - 1.6 = Moderately Active (moderately daily Activity & moderate exercise 3-5 days a week)

• 1.7 - 1.8 = Very Active (physically demanding lifestyle & hard exercise 6-7 days a week)

• 1.9 - 2.2 = Extremely Active (athletes in endurance training or very hard physical job)




To estimate TDEE (the calories at which you will neither gain nor lose tissue weight), use the following formula:



TDEE = BMR * AF


Now that you've estimated your TDEE, it's important to refine that estimate empirically. To do so, consume an average amount of calories equal to estimated TDEE for two weeks, monitoring weight change. The results will confirm your actual TDEE.

Once you know your actually TDEE, set your caloric intake to match your goals as follows:



To maintain weight, consume an amount of calories equal to TDEE.
To lose weight, consume 10% to 20% less than TDEE.
To gain weight, consume 10% 20% more than TDEE.


Monitor weight change via the scale and also body composition via the mirror and how clothing fits, making adjustments as needed biweekly.


Macronutrient Intake

Ensure that your intake of macronutrients meets sufficiency (as defined below), with remaining macronutrient composition of the diet being largely a function of personal preference.

Ideally, ensure macronutrient sufficiency predominantly or, ideally, entirely from whole and minimally processed foods.



Protein: ~0.6 to ~0.8 grams per pound of bodyweight (or target/ideal weight in the obese) -- the highest amount justified by research. (http://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/)

Fat: ~0.45 grams per pound of bodyweight (or target/ideal weight in the obese) -- the lowest amount implied by clinical observation.

Remaining caloric budget: whatever mix of macronutrients you prefer -- as implied by research. (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0804748)



Micronutrient Intake

Take care and use good judgement in food selection and portioning to ensure that micronutrient sufficiency is reached without excessive intake from dietary sources and/or supplements.

As with macronutrient sufficiency, one should ensure micronutrient sufficiency predominantly or, ideally, entirely from whole and minimally processed foods.

To get a good sense of recommended intake of vitamins and minerals, please review this (http://fnic.nal.usda.gov/dietary-guidance/dietary-reference-intakes/dri-tables) USDA guidelines webpage.

You'll find the following information particularly helpful:




Intakes: Recommended Intakes for Individuals (http://www.iom.edu/Activities/Nutrition/SummaryDRIs/~/media/Files/Activity%20Files/Nutrition/DRIs/5_Summary%20Table%20Tables%201-4.pdf)

RDA and Adequate Intake for Vitamins and Elements (http://iom.edu/Activities/Nutrition/SummaryDRIs/~/media/Files/Activity%20Files/Nutrition/DRIs/RDA%20and%20AIs_Vitamin%20and%20Elements.pdf)

Upper Limit for Vitamins and Elements (http://iom.edu/Activities/Nutrition/SummaryDRIs/~/media/Files/Activity%20Files/Nutrition/DRIs/ULs%20for%20Vitamins%20and%20Elements.pdf)

Electrolytes and Water (http://www.iom.edu/Global/News%20Announcements/~/media/442A08B899F44DF9AAD083D86164C75B.ashx)




Meal Timing, Composition & Frequency

The number of meals you consume, the timing of those meals and the macro/micronutrient composition of each meal is largely a function of personal preference.

While it might be "optimal" to consume more than one meal per day and less than 5 meals per day, the simple truth is that any difference that directly results from such fine tuning is likely too small to notice even after years of training.

Thus, base your meal timing, composition and frequency on your subjective preference such as to optimize your sense of energy, performance, satiety, palatability, convenience, social/business life and sustainability.

Do not hesitate to very all three factors from day to day as circumstance dictates. In other words, do not become a slave to routine, with inflexibility compromising your quality of life.


Pre & Post Workout Nutrition

What (if anything) you consume before and after your workout does not play a significant direct role in the outcome of your diet, beyond personal preference.

Why? Because what matters in terms of direct impact on outcomes is total daily intake of all nutrients.

Thus, you should optimize based on how you respond to training in a fed or fasted state, and based on your hungry after exercise. In other words, use common sense.


Supplements

Supplements are just that, products that are intended to supplement deficiencies in your diet. If your diet is properly composed then there's no need or unique benefit to using supplements.

If your diet isn't properly composed and, thus, you have deficiencies, try to fix your diet to cure such deficiencies though the consumption of whole and minimally processed foods. If you can't fix your diet, then use the lowest dose supplement(s) needed to cure any remaining deficiencies.

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