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Overload
12-08-2014, 07:22 AM
Was reading recently that some trainees like to finish off a muscle group with a "pump set" which of course consists of a lighter weight and cranking out as many reps as possible. Is there any benefit to doing that? So for example if you do something like 4x6 on bench press, then drop it down to like your warm up weight and do another 20-25 reps.

netflixbrah
12-08-2014, 07:26 AM
Op, probably u are going to look fkn huge and everybody will mire u, this is a benefit op

Overload
12-08-2014, 07:36 AM
Great answer... now go back to the kiddie section.

Casedogg43
12-08-2014, 08:26 AM
Muscles will blow up immediately, and they will grow with these drop sets. besides that, not to important :)

ironwill2008
12-08-2014, 08:58 AM
Op, probably u are going to look fkn huge and everybody will mire u, this is a benefit op

This isn't the teen misc. If you don't have anything positive to contribute, don't post here.

ironwill2008
12-08-2014, 09:05 AM
A fairly recent look at this topic:

http://journals.lww.com/nsca-scj/Abstract/publishahead/The_Muscle_Pump___Potential_Mechanisms_and.99586.a spx

In the right-hand column, under "Article Tools," click on "Article as PDF (305kb)"





OutOfStep turned me onto that article after some discussion in a previous thread here about the benefit(s) of obtaining a muscle pump. It opened my eyes to some information to which I had previously been unaware.

Overload
12-08-2014, 09:22 AM
Thanks IW. Looks like a good read. Thanks for the link.

EjnarKolinkar
12-08-2014, 09:29 AM
Brad Schoenfeld says pump promotes cell hydration in a test tube :/

But hard to study in a living person.

Also suggests working in a variety of loads and rep ranges to be beneficial for hypertrophy.

You can do some searches for some of the studies or articles he has worked on.

IDK sometimes seems like splitting the atom to me. Fundamentals seem most important.

Overload
12-08-2014, 09:32 AM
IDK sometimes seems like splitting the atom to me. Fundamentals seem most important.

I agree fundamentals first but was curious if it had any benefit because it's not a big deal or time consuming to do 1 quick pump set, but if it's a waste of time or even detrimental then I didn't want to bother. IW's link looks like it will answer that questios as I've started reading the article.

Overload
12-08-2014, 10:14 AM
Part of the article had this:

"Goto et al. (11) showed that a drop set protocol resulted in a significant increase in muscle cross sectional area, opposed to a traditional high-intensity strength training protocol alone. However, the study did not control for total training volume, leaving open the possibility that the increased muscle protein accretion was the result of an increased volume rather than from the effects of cell swelling."

So it seems that a high rep pump/drop set has its place in training... in theory. I'm looking for a slight change of pace in my training without veering off too much so I think I will play around with this idea.

Corbi
12-08-2014, 10:27 AM
Was reading recently that some trainees like to finish off a muscle group with a "pump set" which of course consists of a lighter weight and cranking out as many reps as possible. Is there any benefit to doing that? So for example if you do something like 4x6 on bench press, then drop it down to like your warm up weight and do another 20-25 reps.

I will do this on tricep pressdowns and my arms will get uber pumped. In the summer it's actually difficult if I ride my motorcycle to the gym because afterwards I have a hell of a time fastening the chin strap on my helmet....srs.

JerryB
12-08-2014, 11:39 AM
The following articles in attached files may help answer your question.
It's referred to as cell swelling which may contribute to muscle hypertrophy.

I do pump sets after my compound exercises for chest, quadriceps, hamstrings, and back but with isolation exercises. It's places metabolize stress on the muscles to stimulate hypertrophy.

Overload
12-08-2014, 12:40 PM
Thank you Jerry. Can you clarify how you would do a pump set using isolation exercises for chest and back for example as I'm thinking working those muscles uses other muscles so not following the isolation part of it.

Thanks

JerryB
12-08-2014, 01:06 PM
Thank you Jerry. Can you clarify how you would do a pump set using isolation exercises for chest and back for example as I'm thinking working those muscles uses other muscles so not following the isolation part of it.

Thanks

For the chest I do 5 to 7 sets of low pulley cable fly with a light weight for 15 reps resting for 30 seconds between sets. You can use dumbbells as a substitute, but I prefer the cables due to the constant tension.

For the back use the lat pullover machine if a gym has one following the same sets, reps, and rest interval approach as above. If there is not lat pullover machine I will do straight arm dumbbell pullover across a bench. I fabricated a pullover apparatus for my home gym.

It's just the way I refer to work for the pump.

Overload
12-08-2014, 01:52 PM
Thanks again. You've given me some ideas.

EjnarKolinkar
12-08-2014, 10:41 PM
I agree fundamentals first but was curious if it had any benefit because it's not a big deal or time consuming to do 1 quick pump set, but if it's a waste of time or even detrimental then I didn't want to bother. IW's link looks like it will answer that questios as I've started reading the article.

Ha, I'm too slow.


Thanks again. You've given me some ideas.

Another article, pumps and The Ahhrnold

http://www.t-nation.com/training/5-things-we-can-learn-from-arnold-about-building-muscle

No pull over machine in my gym, I use a straight arm pulldown with a cable for back. Chest I just use pec deck. Heh, been a while sice I did a DB pullover, will have to give those a go again, the BB ones don't agree with me. Thanks Jerry

so-tex
12-09-2014, 12:42 AM
Was reading recently that some trainees like to finish off a muscle group with a "pump set" which of course consists of a lighter weight and cranking out as many reps as possible. Is there any benefit to doing that? So for example if you do something like 4x6 on bench press, then drop it down to like your warm up weight and do another 20-25 reps.

I personally never do them on compound exercises.
I rarely do isolation exexercises, but when I do, I will burn em out using the drop downs.

grubman
12-09-2014, 06:08 AM
Is there any benefit

I know on these forums a lot of focus is put on what a given poster thinks is "optimal" based on his (very personal) experience and what he has read/researched and chosen to put in his "I believe this" column. But I think (IMHO), "optimum" aside, that there is a "benefit" to almost any form of exercise that forces the body to do some work it isn't particularly used to or comfortable with. On top of that, I think (again, MHO) that there are a lot of mental benefits to your motivation and intensity levels by doing something that you think is fun or different. So in my opinion, if this sounds like something interesting, why not? It's unlikely to cause any negative effects, won't add a lot of time to your workout, and might give you a sort of mental reward to look forward to after completing your tough heavy sets...and who knows, it might be something your body responds well to and you'll make some new gains. I say give it a shot and see what happens, as reading articles and fielding opinions will never give you the same perspective as actually experimenting with your individual body.

Overload
12-09-2014, 06:56 AM
Well put grubman. Working out has always been fun for me and needs to stay that way. Don't want it to become a chore or a job. Hence why I don't get hung up on counting calories, macros, etc. I do know when I need to eat more and when I need to back off but like to go by feel. To each his own of course but yes, fun is key and variety too.

Thanks

JerryB
12-09-2014, 11:53 AM
Well put grubman. Working out has always been fun for me and needs to stay that way. Don't want it to become a chore or a job. Hence why I don't get hung up on counting calories, macros, etc. I do know when I need to eat more and when I need to back off but like to go by feel. To each his own of course but yes, fun is key and variety too.

Thanks

I think reading articles can avoid spinning your wheels and give you insight about the physiological affect to approaches in training. I think the results from doing such has benefited my training. Plus it makes training more interesting and adds to understanding how my body functions.

Overload
12-09-2014, 11:57 AM
I think reading articles can avoid spinning your wheels and give you insight about the physiological affect to approaches in training. I think the results from doing such has benefited my training. Plus it makes training more interesting and adds to understanding how my body functions.

I agree with this too. I love reading up on the topic of bodybuilding and weight training in general. But at the end of the day it needs to be fun for me with a touch of science. I definitely don't want to waste time spinning my wheels but I've done this long enough to know myself in that regard as well.

It's all good. I feel we're all ahead of the majority of the population sitting around watching reality TV, eating chips all night long.

Nothing against reality TV. I enjoy a good episode of Duck Dynasty :D

pisarcik.k
12-09-2014, 12:02 PM
I am currently doing as program by Dr. Scott Stevenson (fortitude training) and one aspect of the program is pump sets. As Jerry pointed out, pump sets create metabolic stress, which is a key component to hypertrophy, the cell swelling has an anabolic effect. Additionally, with an extreme pump and the correct form of stretch (DC style extreme stretches) you can restrict blood flood and create an occlusion training effect, which has been shown to create hypertrophy. Don't just train for the pump though, train with balance of creating muscular damage, metabolic stress and mechanical tension. Find the right balance of those forces for your goals

JerryB
12-09-2014, 12:31 PM
I am currently doing as program by Dr. Scott Stevenson (fortitude training) and one aspect of the program is pump sets. As Jerry pointed out, pump sets create metabolic stress, which is a key component to hypertrophy, the cell swelling has an anabolic effect. Additionally, with an extreme pump and the correct form of stretch (DC style extreme stretches) you can restrict blood flood and create an occlusion training effect, which has been shown to create hypertrophy. Don't just train for the pump though, train with balance of creating muscular damage, metabolic stress and mechanical tension. Find the right balance of those forces for your goals

Gee what is your approach to becoming so cut? I thought about HIIT but sprinting or any other way to max VO2 at age 65 to be 66 Dec 30 is out of the question. I was a sprinter in college weighing 155lbs and 45 years younger. I know the effort it takes. I'm goal is to compete next year at the 5% to 4% body fat range. I'm currently at 7% to 8% and will hold it in spite of the holidays.

pisarcik.k
12-09-2014, 12:49 PM
Gee what is your approach to becoming so cut? I thought about HIIT but sprinting or any other way to max VO2 at age 65 to be 66 Dec 30 is out of the question. I was a sprinter in college weighing 155lbs and 45 years younger. I know the effort it takes. I'm goal is to compete next year at the 5% to 4% body fat range. I'm currently at 7% to 8% and will hold it in spite of the holidays.

I did a TOTAL of 8 cardio session this past prep.... Previously I competed doing DC training right through my prep under Dr. Scott's guidance (he is Dante Trudel's [doggcrapp AKA DC] official DC trainer) and did a mix of HIIT and LISS. HIIT on off days but not before legs and LISS of days before legs. My approach is to train as hard and a frequent as possible. Every session I feel like I walked through hell lol My rest periods are minimal and on Fortitude Training I am training almost every bodypart 4 days per week (during prep I push my limits and increase training frequency and do 2 on 1 off). I consume the majority of my kcals around training and take advantage of the insulin sensitivity. I am METICULOUS and weigh everything to gram and eat the same exact meals at the same exact time every day for as long as my prep is... I don't have anything special I am just consistent. Honestly, when in prep, if I am NOT suffering, I increase the intensity of things and cut calories in certain area so that I am. Maybe it is crazy, but in my mind, the more I am suffering the better I am going to be... sick, yes, but I F*CKING LOVE IT

Mojoke
12-11-2014, 05:12 AM
I have also read about this in the past, but I cannot find the study anymore. I think the hgh response was bigger when executing a pump set after a heavy work set. We then talk about 25 reps with, not sure here, about 20 - 25% of your work weight.

Haven't consistently tried it out, but it seems like an option to do so.

Let uw know what your results are

GreenWave1
12-11-2014, 02:37 PM
Great thread. Glad to hear some experience on this. I've employed drop sets in the past, but usually for plateau busting. I'm going to try them more consistently at the end of workouts for my more stubborn body parts.

tank316
12-11-2014, 07:50 PM
Here's an example of what I follow. Eric Broser's FD/FS program
The program makes you set your ego aside, but the main focus is muscle gain. I cycle this along with PRRS.
Chest

-Bench Press…2 x 3-4 + 1-2 forced reps (3/0/X tempo)
-Smith Incline Press…2 x 2-3 +1 + 1 + 1 rest/pause style (6/1/1 tempo) or…Eccentric Only Smith Incline Press**…2 x 5-6 (6 second negatives)
-Incline DB Flye…2 x 7-8 (2/4/1 tempo)
-Machine Bench Press…2 x 30-40 (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps)
-Superset: Machine Dips (1/0/1 tempo; non-lock-out reps) /Pec Deck (1/0/1 tempo)…1 x 20-25 each

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=6395061

kconnell
12-11-2014, 07:52 PM
Yes. It works a different part of the cells. Arnold used this tactic a lot.

Guinea-pig
12-11-2014, 08:06 PM
OP
I say yes to your question, it helps you when you want to shock your muscles out of placency.

Motiviert
12-11-2014, 08:07 PM
Op, probably u are going to look fkn huge and everybody will mire u, this is a benefit op

Negged

Srs.

Motiviert
12-11-2014, 08:08 PM
I.W. Oates a good read if you haven't read it yet op.

Looton
12-11-2014, 08:38 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12853908
"CONCLUSION:

These results suggests that a high intensity, low volume training protocol to induce neural adaptation resulted in little GH response, but GH secretion was increased by performing a single set of low intensity resistance exercise at the end of a series of high intensity resistance sets"

I vary it up, but do the above at times. Pump training works for me (Serge Nubret training). But I include heavy days when my body says 'go'. It works for my body and limits joint injury - for me.

Looton
12-11-2014, 11:31 PM
"placency" - I'm gonna have to look that up, must be a medical term ;)

Guinea-pig
12-12-2014, 06:01 AM
"placency" - I'm gonna have to look that up, must be a medical term ;)

My bad , no medical term meant to say complacency.:)

EjnarKolinkar
12-13-2014, 07:10 AM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12853908
"CONCLUSION:

These results suggests that a high intensity, low volume training protocol to induce neural adaptation resulted in little GH response, but GH secretion was increased by performing a single set of low intensity resistance exercise at the end of a series of high intensity resistance sets"

Minor change of GH by the body will have no meaningful effect on getting teh hyooooge anyway.

You might enjoy:



http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161736423&page=2&highlight=growth+hormone




I came to post dis:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/light_weights_for_big_gains


It's another Brad Schoenfeld article. One of the side benefits of pump style training is to vary the rep range. It's a 2 for 1 IMO.

Bladerunner1811
12-13-2014, 08:45 AM
Was reading recently that some trainees like to finish off a muscle group with a "pump set" which of course consists of a lighter weight and cranking out as many reps as possible. Is there any benefit to doing that? So for example if you do something like 4x6 on bench press, then drop it down to like your warm up weight and do another 20-25 reps.


Training so that the muscle gets pumped up does not mean the exercise and the set was productive.

Bando
12-13-2014, 08:58 AM
I did a TOTAL of 8 cardio session this past prep.... Previously I competed doing DC training right through my prep under Dr. Scott's guidance (he is Dante Trudel's [doggcrapp AKA DC] official DC trainer) and did a mix of HIIT and LISS. HIIT on off days but not before legs and LISS of days before legs. My approach is to train as hard and a frequent as possible. Every session I feel like I walked through hell lol My rest periods are minimal and on Fortitude Training I am training almost every bodypart 4 days per week (during prep I push my limits and increase training frequency and do 2 on 1 off). I consume the majority of my kcals around training and take advantage of the insulin sensitivity. I am METICULOUS and weigh everything to gram and eat the same exact meals at the same exact time every day for as long as my prep is... I don't have anything special I am just consistent. Honestly, when in prep, if I am NOT suffering, I increase the intensity of things and cut calories in certain area so that I am. Maybe it is crazy, but in my mind, the more I am suffering the better I am going to be... sick, yes, but I F*CKING LOVE IT

Impressive, SRS.

I came in to read an article posted by Induced Drag about Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy, but I see he hasn't come in and posted it yet :p

I love pump sets OP and believe they have helped me.