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View Full Version : If my diet stays the same, but I switch from doing my 5x5 program to a 3x10 program..



Zykanthos
11-28-2014, 04:28 PM
I'll try to make this as short as possible and hopefully you guys have some good answers for me.

Current calories: 3,000

Current lifts:

Squat - 335 x 5
Deadlift - 380 x 5
Bench - 255 x 5

I've been doing the Stronglifts 5x5 program since August and this is where I'm at today.

My question is this: if I switch up my routine to, for example, a 3x10 program, will it help my strength on 5x5? If I switch to a program lifting not as much as weight as before but for a higher volume, will it have positive or negative effects on my 5x5 program? Do you guys think it would be beneficial to do this? And also, would you recommend splitting them? Such as doing 5x5 on certain days and 3x10 on others?

Looking forward to hearing feedback from you brahs.

BMC171
11-28-2014, 04:46 PM
I'll try to make this as short as possible and hopefully you guys have some good answers for me.

Current calories: 3,000

Current lifts:

Squat - 335 x 5
Deadlift - 380 x 5
Bench - 255 x 5

I've been doing the Stronglifts 5x5 program since August and this is where I'm at today.

My question is this: if I switch up my routine to, for example, a 3x10 program, will it help my strength on 5x5? If I switch to a program lifting not as much as weight as before but for a higher volume, will it have positive or negative effects on my 5x5 program? Do you guys think it would be beneficial to do this? And also, would you recommend splitting them? Such as doing 5x5 on certain days and 3x10 on others?

Looking forward to hearing feedback from you brahs.

In my opinon I would stick to the 5x5 and not change anything until u feel u can't lift anymore for any more reps then move on to a different program which will allow u to progress further

AFC96
11-28-2014, 04:48 PM
Maybe you can try like madcows5x5 or another intermediate program that can improve your 5x5.

hanger1989
11-28-2014, 04:58 PM
5 by 5 is more of a strength based programme. Most top bodybuilders don't train in the 5 rep range. You will obviously still gain muscle size doing 5 by 5, but it probably isn't optimal for size.

In theory a 3 by 10 programme is probably better for size, but not as good for strength.

Up up you what your goals are though, if you enjoy lifting heavy and are more into powerlifting and strength based training then stick to the 5 by 5. However if it's bodybuilding and muscle size your after then less weight, and higher reps could improve your physique.

Zykanthos
11-28-2014, 05:21 PM
In my opinon I would stick to the 5x5 and not change anything until u feel u can't lift anymore for any more reps then move on to a different program which will allow u to progress further


Right. That's basically why I'm considering doing it. I've sort of plateau'd recently. Going from 325 on my squat to 335 for reps took a lot longer than it did to get to 315. For the past few weeks now I've been pretty much stuck at the stats I posted. So that's why I was wondering if I were to do a 3x10 progressive overload program, do you think I'd be able to bust through the plateau? In other words, would I see my 5 rep range stats go up?

Zykanthos
11-28-2014, 05:24 PM
5 by 5 is more of a strength based programme. Most top bodybuilders don't train in the 5 rep range. You will obviously still gain muscle size doing 5 by 5, but it probably isn't optimal for size.

In theory a 3 by 10 programme is probably better for size, but not as good for strength.

Up up you what your goals are though, if you enjoy lifting heavy and are more into powerlifting and strength based training then stick to the 5 by 5. However if it's bodybuilding and muscle size your after then less weight, and higher reps could improve your physique.

See I don't really agree with this (no offense intended). It's just....the stronger you get, the more muscle you'll have. More muscle = able to lift heavier weights. Lifting 335 lbs for 5 reps on squats is no easy task, and I don't think I would have been able to get there by doing reps of 10. I see dudes who look bigger than me in the gym but aren't able to squat or deadlift as much as I can. And I see them doing all these 8-10 rep range exercises. But you're right, both rep ranges have their place.

BeauFlexington
11-28-2014, 05:36 PM
See I don't really agree with this (no offense intended). It's just....the stronger you get, the more muscle you'll have. More muscle = able to lift heavier weights.
Correct -- that rep range distinction on its own, is less significant than people make it. What you should really evaluate is how often you're able to add weight going forward. You've made a good accomplishment on SL. When linear progress stalls out, look at different programming methods, such as weekly periodization found in 5/3/1, or something like Zourdos' DUP programming where you modulate %intensity and reps in goal-specific blocks.

Zykanthos
11-28-2014, 05:48 PM
Correct -- that rep range distinction on its own, is less significant than people make it. What you should really evaluate is how often you're able to add weight going forward. You've made a good accomplishment on SL. When linear progress stalls out, look at different programming methods, such as weekly periodization found in 5/3/1, or something like Zourdos' DUP programming where you modulate %intensity and reps in goal-specific blocks.

Thanks for the recommendations man. I will check these out. This is exactly the type of feedback I'm looking for. Basically whatever you guys have had success with in terms of busting through your plateau. I feel like I've more or less plateaued at my current stats, so that's why I was wondering if it would be a good idea to switch it up. What are your thoughts on Madcow? Even SL recommends Madcow once you've plateaued. Any personal experience there?

hanger1989
11-29-2014, 02:34 AM
See I don't really agree with this (no offense intended). It's just....the stronger you get, the more muscle you'll have. More muscle = able to lift heavier weights. Lifting 335 lbs for 5 reps on squats is no easy task, and I don't think I would have been able to get there by doing reps of 10. I see dudes who look bigger than me in the gym but aren't able to squat or deadlift as much as I can. And I see them doing all these 8-10 rep range exercises. But you're right, both rep ranges have their place.

It depends what you define as being strong. Surely the endurance of being able to do 10 reps of a slightly lighter weight is equally impressive.

Most guys prefer to train in the lower rep ranges, including myself quite abit, as lifting heavy is more fun. But you won't find many top bodybuilders who train for appearance training squats in the 5 rep range.

Not saying you won't grow muscle in the 5 rep range but your not maximising your potential for size in that rep range.

Mrpb
11-29-2014, 04:40 AM
Most top bodybuilders don't train in the 5 rep range.

Sure?

BMC171
11-29-2014, 05:52 AM
Right. That's basically why I'm considering doing it. I've sort of plateau'd recently. Going from 325 on my squat to 335 for reps took a lot longer than it did to get to 315. For the past few weeks now I've been pretty much stuck at the stats I posted. So that's why I was wondering if I were to do a 3x10 progressive overload program, do you think I'd be able to bust through the plateau? In other words, would I see my 5 rep range stats go up?

just drop every lift that you stalled in by 20% then try and bust through plateau

EjnarKolinkar
11-29-2014, 06:30 AM
Thanks for the recommendations man. I will check these out. This is exactly the type of feedback I'm looking for. Basically whatever you guys have had success with in terms of busting through your plateau. I feel like I've more or less plateaued at my current stats, so that's why I was wondering if it would be a good idea to switch it up. What are your thoughts on Madcow? Even SL recommends Madcow once you've plateaued. Any personal experience there?

It works.

Only problem is not to stay too long at the fair. When you train with microplates you wind up working up to close to your 5 rep max and beyond. As you work for weeks at at adding a pound +/- to your lifts there is the potential to get a bit run down. Your nutrition and rest need to be on point, you need to have a plan to deload if needed: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121391461&p=430490431&viewfull=1#post430490431.

This is also true with Texas Method although with a slightly different method. These programs are intense and require attention to recovery.

5/3/1 same thing don't skip all the deloads.

If you aren't gaining weight on 3000, you will need to increase calories on any program to continue to push strength up and support recovery. The intermediate program you choose matters less than your effort in the gym, and your attention to supporting your recovery.

cls91
11-29-2014, 06:49 AM
From personal experience, I found working in the higher rep range to be beneficial.

Used to work 3-5 for squat, and would test my 1RM once a month probably... that 1RM never changed too much (it did, but slowly)... once I dropped that and started working 5-10, I found my squat was slowly increasing each session

For bench, I was stuck at BW for 6 reps for a long time, switched to higher volume (reps of 8-10, plus some more additional working sets), and it's helped to break through that plateau.


Of course, it's difficult to pin point whether or not the benefits came directly from changing my programming... could have been macros, form, even just overall motivation in general,.. but for the most part, everything else has stayed relatively the same.

Zykanthos
11-29-2014, 07:11 AM
Not saying you won't grow muscle in the 5 rep range but your not maximising your potential for size in that rep range.

Why is a higher rep range ideal for muscle size vs the 5 rep range?

Mrpb
11-29-2014, 07:22 AM
Why is a higher rep range ideal for muscle size vs the 5 rep range?

It isn't. A study done by Brad Schoenfeld found that 7 sets of 3 gave the same hypertrophy as 3 sets of 10.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24714538

Haven't read the whole thread but why aren't you doing PHAT?

Zykanthos
11-29-2014, 07:32 AM
It isn't.

Lol, that's what I kinda figured. I never could wrap my head around why guys kept saying the 8-10 rep range was ideal for size. I just figured the only things required to gain muscle was progressive overload and sufficient calories & rest.

Mentally, however, I feel like switching up my routine to a higher rep range might be a refreshing reset.

Mrpb
11-29-2014, 07:35 AM
I never could wrap my head around why guys kept saying the 8-10 rep range was ideal for size.

Well, there's something to it. Brad explains it well here: http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/blog/bodybuilding-vs-powerlifting-type-training-which-builds-more-strength-and-muscle/

modernsuperman
11-29-2014, 07:38 AM
Yeah 5x5 will be for strength and 3x10 is used for hypertrophy. If you have any other questions op, shoot.

TypeNirvash
11-29-2014, 07:41 AM
Yeah 5x5 will be for strength and 3x10 is used for hypertrophy. If you have any other questions op, shoot.

Looks like somebody didn't take the time to read the thread.

Hypertrophy is found in all rep ranges.

ZMan45
11-29-2014, 07:54 AM
Looks like somebody didn't take the time to read the thread.

Hypertrophy is found in all rep ranges.Indeed. Total volume is much more important.

modernsuperman
11-29-2014, 08:05 AM
Looks like somebody didn't take the time to read the thread.

Hypertrophy is found in all rep ranges.

Of course to some degree, and I read the linked page which was interesting. Just general knowledge that 8-12 rep range is used more so for hypertrophy. You'll be able to focus more on the contractions with the lighter load. You'll also be able to go slower during the eccentric contraction which is responsible for greater hypertrophy. Don't believe me though, I don't really care.

Zykanthos
11-29-2014, 08:23 AM
From personal experience, I found working in the higher rep range to be beneficial.

Used to work 3-5 for squat, and would test my 1RM once a month probably... that 1RM never changed too much (it did, but slowly)... once I dropped that and started working 5-10, I found my squat was slowly increasing each session

For bench, I was stuck at BW for 6 reps for a long time, switched to higher volume (reps of 8-10, plus some more additional working sets), and it's helped to break through that plateau.


Of course, it's difficult to pin point whether or not the benefits came directly from changing my programming... could have been macros, form, even just overall motivation in general,.. but for the most part, everything else has stayed relatively the same.

Sounds like I just need to experiment and see what works best for me. I understand there's not necessarily a "one size fits all" answer and that everyone responds differently to different types of resistance. Thanks for the advice brah.

Mrpb
11-29-2014, 08:32 AM
I think varying rep ranges is where it's at. If you feel like doing low rep work have a day where you bench press in the 1-5 rep range. See if you can improve your PRs. On a hypertrophy day go more for the feel and squeeze, see if you can bench purely with the pecs and create DOMS in the pecs.

This is why I suggested PHAT. Personally though, I prefer with going with how I feel a.k.a. auto regulation.

ZMan45
11-29-2014, 08:42 AM
I think varying rep ranges is where it's at. If you feel like doing low rep work have a day where you bench press in the 1-5 rep range. See if you can improve your PRs. On a hypertrophy day go more for the feel and squeeze, see if you can bench purely with the pecs and create DOMS in the pecs.

This is why I suggested PHAT. Personally though, I prefer with going with how I feel a.k.a. auto regulation.I agree. Always have used undulating rep ranges in the past with great success.

TypeNirvash
11-29-2014, 08:48 AM
Of course to some degree, and I read the linked page which was interesting. Just general knowledge that 8-12 rep range is used more so for hypertrophy.

What you describe as general knowledge, is actually bro knowledge. It's essentially the very tip of of the ice-burg, and only widely accepted as fact by the people reading the BB.com mainpage/getting the Muscle/Fitness magazines.

You don't need to be in the 8-12 rep range to achieve hypertrophy and can achieve the same results in all rep ranges.


You'll be able to focus more on the contractions with the lighter load. You'll also be able to go slower during the eccentric contraction which is responsible for greater hypertrophy. Don't believe me though, I don't really care.

Your body will grow to compensate the workload it is being given. Therefore, you can optimize results at either low or high rep ranges, and don't have to confine yourself to the 8-10 range.

Guess who received better strength gains, while still receiving achieving the same amount of hypertrophy in that study? The power lifting group.

If muscle strength and size are directly correlated, who do you think wins out in the long run?


I think varying rep ranges is where it's at. If you feel like doing low rep work have a day where you bench press in the 1-5 rep range. See if you can improve your PRs. On a hypertrophy day go more for the feel and squeeze, see if you can bench purely with the pecs and create DOMS in the pecs.

This is why I suggested PHAT. Personally though, I prefer with going with how I feel a.k.a. auto regulation.

This. Some days I hit high reps because that's where I'm at. Other days, I stick around the five rep range. Once in a while, I'll do 10-12 sets of 1 rep.

If I'm going low reps, I add extra sets. This way, I never really lose out on hypertrophy.

Zykanthos
11-29-2014, 09:37 AM
I agree. Always have used undulating rep ranges in the past with great success.


I think varying rep ranges is where it's at. If you feel like doing low rep work have a day where you bench press in the 1-5 rep range. See if you can improve your PRs. On a hypertrophy day go more for the feel and squeeze, see if you can bench purely with the pecs and create DOMS in the pecs.

This is why I suggested PHAT. Personally though, I prefer with going with how I feel a.k.a. auto regulation.

Thanks guys. I will experiment with different rep ranges and see what happens.