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View Full Version : Thoughts on Newly Released Study Regarding Fat Loss and Cardio?



bpshock
11-16-2014, 02:21 PM
http://jap.physiology.org/content/early/2014/11/10/japplphysiol.00697.2014

Study (released nov 13th 2014) shows a 50% increase in total fat oxidation over 24 hours when performing morning cardio before breakfast.

Thoughts?

ELLSKIES
11-16-2014, 03:43 PM
http://jap.physiology.org/content/early/2014/11/10/japplphysiol.00697.2014

Study (released nov 13th 2014) shows a 50% increase in total fat oxidation over 24 hours when performing morning cardio before breakfast.

Thoughts?
Regardless of substrate burned, a calorie deficit is the only requirement for fat loss.

fingerbreaker10
11-16-2014, 05:02 PM
A deficit is a deficit. Plain and simple

cumminslifter
11-16-2014, 08:22 PM
yes, you will burn a greater amount of calories from fat when doing fasted cardio, however that means nothing in the grand scheme of things

Mrpb
11-16-2014, 09:33 PM
http://jap.physiology.org/content/early/2014/11/10/japplphysiol.00697.2014

Study (released nov 13th 2014) shows a 50% increase in total fat oxidation over 24 hours when performing morning cardio before breakfast.

Thoughts?

burning more fat = / = losing more body fat.

Good article by Brad Schoenfeld: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/the-myth-of-cardio-before-breakfast-debunked.html

ErikTheElectric
11-16-2014, 09:47 PM
Would be jeff seid if this was true lmao.

sonnydfrizzy
11-16-2014, 10:55 PM
burning more fat = / = losing more body fat.

Good article by Brad Schoenfeld: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/the-myth-of-cardio-before-breakfast-debunked.html

This

IIRC, Brad Schoenfeld actually advises against fasted cardio. It is too late for me to find the conclusion and paraphrase him but it was something along the lines of having food pre-cardio caused an upregulation of metabolic rate.

Help me mrpb lol

Mrpb
11-16-2014, 11:22 PM
This

IIRC, Brad Schoenfeld actually advises against fasted cardio. It is too late for me to find the conclusion and paraphrase him but it was something along the lines of having food pre-cardio caused an upregulation of metabolic rate.

Help me mrpb lol


There's also the intensity factor to consider. Research indicates that high-intensity interval training is more effective than steady-state cardio for fat loss (Bill Phillips actually recommended HIIT as the preferred type of cardio in his book).

Ever try to engage in HIIT session on an empty stomach? Bet you hit the wall pretty quick. In order to perform at a high level, your body needs a ready source of glycogen; deplete those stores and say goodbye to elevated training intensity.

The net result is that fewer calories are burned both during and after exercise, thereby diminishing total fat loss.

On top of everything, fasted cardio can have a catabolic effect on muscle. Studies show that training in a glycogen-depleted state substantially increases the amount of tissue proteins burned for energy during exercise (4).

Protein losses can exceed 10 percent of the total calories burned over the course of a one-hour cardio session -- more than double that of training in the fed state (5).

Any way you slice it, sacrificing hard-earned muscle in a futile attempt to burn a few extra calories from fat doesn't make a lick lot of sense--especially if you're a bodybuilder!

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/the-myth-of-cardio-before-breakfast-debunked.html

sonnydfrizzy
11-17-2014, 12:00 AM
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/the-myth-of-cardio-before-breakfast-debunked.html

on spread for life

ErikTheElectric
11-17-2014, 12:18 AM
Would be curious to hear an elaboration on how "depleted" the trainees were in the studies conducted.

Obviously... attempting to do copious bouts of HIIT in a fasted state is border line moronic.

Mrpb
11-17-2014, 12:36 AM
I'm really curious about the study that Mike Zourdos is currently running. What will be better for body composition, just lifting or lifting + HIIT.

Additional HIIT will likely provide more fat loss, but just lifting might lead to more muscle gain.

SuffolkPunch
11-17-2014, 01:22 AM
I'm really curious about the study that Mike Zourdos is currently running. What will be better for body composition, just lifting or lifting + HIIT.


So am I. The guy seems to target his research towards the genuinely interesting questions (from a lifters point of view).

sonnydfrizzy
11-17-2014, 02:36 AM
Would be curious to hear an elaboration on how "depleted" the trainees were in the studies conducted.

Obviously... attempting to do copious bouts of HIIT in a fasted state is border line moronic.

Don't be so harsh on yourself

cumminslifter
11-17-2014, 08:35 AM
I'm really curious about the study that Mike Zourdos is currently running. What will be better for body composition, just lifting or lifting + HIIT.

Additional HIIT will likely provide more fat loss, but just lifting might lead to more muscle gain.do you have any idea when this will be out?

Mrpb
11-17-2014, 08:42 AM
do you have any idea when this will be out?

Unfortunately I think it's next year.

They talked about it in this podcast: http://www.biolayne.com/podcasts/physique-science-radio-episode-4-periodization-with-dr-mike-zourdos/

Very good podcast btw. One of the better episodes.

ZMan45
11-17-2014, 08:53 AM
I'm really curious about the study that Mike Zourdos is currently running. What will be better for body composition, just lifting or lifting + HIIT.

Additional HIIT will likely provide more fat loss, but just lifting might lead to more muscle gain.I wouldn't be surprised. HIIT is very similar to resistance training in several ways. Just as anecdote, look at top sprinters and cyclists.

ifguy12
11-17-2014, 09:06 AM
I wouldn't be surprised. HIIT is very similar to resistance training in several ways. Just as anecdote, look at top sprinters and cyclists.

That is cherry picking. Top marathoners are also very lean.

Mrpb
11-17-2014, 09:12 AM
I wouldn't be surprised. HIIT is very similar to resistance training in several ways. Just as anecdote, look at top sprinters and cyclists.

You wouldn't be surprised that what?

I can see a point for both strategies, doing HIIT will probably increase fat loss but may inhibit recovery and may lead to less power in squatting.

If the HIIT group builds less muscle their body composition may not be as good as the squat group.

(iirc the study looks specifically at squatting but I could be wrong)

cumminslifter
11-17-2014, 09:14 AM
You wouldn't be surprised that what?

I can see a point for both strategies, doing HIIT will probably increase fat loss but may inhibit recovery and may lead to less power in squatting.

If the HIIT group builds less muscle they're body composition may not be as good as the squat group.this would be my guess, depending how how they schedule it all

germaine07
11-17-2014, 09:24 AM
Brad and Alan have had their study accepted and it is undergoing the peer review process. Fasted vs Fed cardio for fat loss. Looking at the net effect, not just short term oxidation.

Also, burning CHO during cardio can lead to increased fat oxidation later in the day, and vice versa.

ErikTheElectric
11-17-2014, 09:35 AM
Don't be so harsh on yourself


Another idiotic statement which makes absolutely no sense.

Keep them coming, it's amusing.

SuffolkPunch
11-17-2014, 11:56 AM
I'm betting on lifting > HIIT. Reason being you don't need anything more complicated than a calorie deficit to burn fat and HIIT is detracting from your recovery ability and preventing you from doing as much lifting volume.

Of course if he runs the test using a set amount of lifting - but with extra HIIT in one group the results won't reflect that but I hope he doesn't

Mdenatale
11-17-2014, 01:03 PM
That is cherry picking. Top marathoners are also very lean.

He was talking about the muscle mass seen in sprinters and cyclists not how lean they are.

noaddedhormones
11-17-2014, 01:21 PM
I would argue that it may be benfefical on a cut as it would be glycogen sparing since >% of fat is utilised over the day. So you may perform better in the gym when training later in the day.

ErikTheElectric
11-17-2014, 08:38 PM
He was talking about the muscle mass seen in sprinters and cyclists not how lean they are.




http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y461/Eriktheelectric/Notable%20pictures/577332_347021498766780_1476061052_n_zps1e8d2c6c.jp g (http://s1276.photobucket.com/user/Eriktheelectric/media/Notable%20pictures/577332_347021498766780_1476061052_n_zps1e8d2c6c.jp g.html)

Mrpb
11-17-2014, 11:11 PM
Hot off the presses, Body composition changes associated with fasted versus non-fasted aerobic exercise:

Both groups showed a significant loss of weight (P =0.0005) and fat mass (P =0.02) from baseline, but no significant between-group differences were noted in any outcome measure. These findings indicate that body composition changes associated with aerobic exercise in conjunction with a hypocaloric diet are similar regardless whether or not an individual is fasted prior to training.

http://www.jissn.com/content/11/1/54/abstract

cumminslifter
11-18-2014, 07:09 AM
Hot off the presses, Body composition changes associated with fasted versus non-fasted aerobic exercise:

Both groups showed a significant loss of weight (P =0.0005) and fat mass (P =0.02) from baseline, but no significant between-group differences were noted in any outcome measure. These findings indicate that body composition changes associated with aerobic exercise in conjunction with a hypocaloric diet are similar regardless whether or not an individual is fasted prior to training.

http://www.jissn.com/content/11/1/54/abstracti was just about to read the suppversity article on this

ErikTheElectric
11-18-2014, 10:18 AM
Hot off the presses, Body composition changes associated with fasted versus non-fasted aerobic exercise:

Both groups showed a significant loss of weight (P =0.0005) and fat mass (P =0.02) from baseline, but no significant between-group differences were noted in any outcome measure. These findings indicate that body composition changes associated with aerobic exercise in conjunction with a hypocaloric diet are similar regardless whether or not an individual is fasted prior to training.

http://www.jissn.com/content/11/1/54/abstract





http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y461/Eriktheelectric/Notable%20pictures/giveup_zpsdc9575f3.gif (http://s1276.photobucket.com/user/Eriktheelectric/media/Notable%20pictures/giveup_zpsdc9575f3.gif.html)

amills2015
11-18-2014, 04:45 PM
Can someone explain to me N= and P=. That and maybe a crash course site that helps give definitions/guidance of how to read research abstracts and articles?