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View Full Version : Serious question for theists, why do you pray?



redelite191
10-17-2014, 01:20 PM
Why?

dajungle
10-17-2014, 01:32 PM
Why do you care?
Atheists think about theists way too much

IDrinkBloodLOL
10-17-2014, 01:34 PM
Why do you care?
Atheists think about theists way too much

http://i.imgur.com/NLvznYz.jpg

frankenstein78
10-17-2014, 02:00 PM
Something I wondered even when I was a believer. If prayer worked, people would be a lot more careful in what they ask for.

Positive thoughts and self belief accomplish much more. If you're going to talk to yourself and/or meditate, might as well make it purely positive.

confuoco
10-17-2014, 02:04 PM
The function of prayer is not to influence God, but rather to change the nature of the one who prays. ~ Kierkegaard

TruKnight
10-17-2014, 02:15 PM
because I enjoy fellowship with the creator of the universe op.

Harbinger
10-17-2014, 02:17 PM
because I enjoy fellowship with the creator of the universe op.

this actually made me chuckle a little.

GreatOldOne
10-17-2014, 02:30 PM
Why?

If people don't pray, how would god know what to do next?

What a silly question.

GreatOldOne
10-17-2014, 02:38 PM
The function of prayer is not to influence God, but rather to change the nature of the one who prays. ~ Kierkegaard

Unless you're invoking a spiritual power who has nothing better to do than wait around for people asking for self change...

...you are either trying to influence God or seriously dodging personal responsibility for your own nature by indulging in prayer.

~Goo

lasher
10-17-2014, 03:02 PM
The function of prayer is not to influence God, but rather to change the nature of the one who prays. ~ Kierkegaard

I need to read me some Kierkegaard. That's good stuff.

Alchem
10-17-2014, 03:05 PM
You mean the ritual prayer or like pray as in ask God for favors??? If the former, then because It's obligatory in Islam plus you get a feeling of tranquility during and after the prayer, better than any xanax srs.

GreatOldOne
10-17-2014, 03:07 PM
I need to read me some Kierkegaard. That's good stuff.

He's good reading. At least he realizes what he's dealing with existentially.

A lot more interesting than people pretending to be Paul.

eltigar
10-17-2014, 03:09 PM
You mean the ritual prayer or like pray as in ask God for favors??? If the former, then because It's obligatory in Islam plus you get a feeling of tranquility during and after the prayer, better than any xanax srs.

Don't know why I reD Xanax as anal X-ray .

lasher
10-17-2014, 03:09 PM
He's good reading. At least he realizes what he's dealing with existentially.

I've always had a natural dislike, almost existential, for existential philosophy, so I never bothered with him beyond reading some snippets here and there.



A lot more interesting than people pretending to be Paul.

lolwut

GreatOldOne
10-17-2014, 03:10 PM
this actually made me chuckle a little.

I wonder if this kind of fellowship is appreciated at all times...such as when you are sick from norovirus.

IMO...it should be.

lasher
10-17-2014, 03:10 PM
Don't know why I reD Xanax as anal X-ray .

it means youre secretly gay.

Well, were secretly gay.

Harbinger
10-17-2014, 03:14 PM
Does God listen to prayers while he's taking a dump?

GreatOldOne
10-17-2014, 03:22 PM
I've always had a natural dislike, almost existential, for existential philosophy, so I never bothered with him beyond reading some snippets here and there.


Yeah I mean he can be dry. Let's face it. If his work was a movie you'd be asleep in a half hour.

The thing with existential philosophy is it tries with varying degrees to converse/analyze on a functional level which assumes a validity and orderly nature to emotion, perception, and cognition regarding awareness of self.

It can and does come off as complete horse chit to anyone not already buying into implicit premises put forth by various writers.

But...it's a decent approach. At the core you grant only existence.

Brb...turning into a bug.

eltigar
10-17-2014, 03:25 PM
it means youre secretly gay.

Well, were secretly gay.

Or the fact that I had exploratory operation on my Bowles , had an obstruction removed, a piece of intestine cut out and then spent 3 years feeling like Thers broken glass in my but crack.
Oh and all the camerAs I've had up my bum too.

lasher
10-17-2014, 03:31 PM
Or the fact that I had exploratory operation on my Bowles , had an obstruction removed, a piece of intestine cut out and then spent 3 years feeling like Thers broken glass in my but crack.
Oh and all the camerAs I've had up my bum too.


tmi brah


but I guess I was asking for it

GreatOldOne
10-17-2014, 04:20 PM
Or the fact that I had exploratory operation on my Bowles , had an obstruction removed, a piece of intestine cut out and then spent 3 years feeling like Thers broken glass in my but crack.
Oh and all the camerAs I've had up my bum too.

That's rough man. Are you doing better now?

DizzySmalls
10-17-2014, 04:23 PM
Unless you're invoking a spiritual power who has nothing better to do than wait around for people asking for self change...

...you are either trying to influence God or seriously dodging personal responsibility for your own nature by indulging in prayer.

~Goo
Are you sure you meant to use the word nature there?

GreatOldOne
10-17-2014, 04:24 PM
Are you sure you meant to use the word nature there?

Not entirely. Did you have a candidate for possible replacement?

DizzySmalls
10-17-2014, 04:27 PM
Not entirely. Did you have a candidate for possible replacement?
How about "outcomes"? I'm still not thrilled with it though

BTW GOO does this mean you think that you are responsible for the "nature" of everyone?

frankenstein78
10-17-2014, 04:39 PM
The function of prayer is not to influence God, but rather to change the nature of the one who prays. ~ Kierkegaard

So why not pray to yourself? Or a glass of water?
Isn't a lot of prayer a way to tell yourself 'everything will be okay?'
A way to district one's self from bad things, with hope they will get better.
I guess I'm curious why a deity needs to be involved in moments of deep thought. Is it not easy to believe things will work out well without invoking a God who has no control in the matter, since we have free will?

Or is the point of prayer to be a repetitive habit to reinforce religious belief?

On a practical level, I say prayer is just stress relief. It takes a lot less sweat than 100 pullups.

GreatOldOne
10-17-2014, 04:47 PM
How about "outcomes"? I'm still not thrilled with it though

BTW GOO does this mean you think that you are responsible for the "nature" of everyone?

I assume everybody is interconnected...so 'responsible'...yes. Along a gradient.

I don't believe in magic.

The key question here is not 'nature' but your personal identity. If you feel you are some isolated 'thing' doing 'whatever it wants'...

Then you're wrong.

'Outcomes' would be fine only more confusing. 'Nature' of developing outcomes is still implicit.

DizzySmalls
10-17-2014, 04:50 PM
I assume everybody is interconnected...so 'responsible'...yes. Along a gradient.

I don't believe in magic.

The key question here is not 'nature' but your personal identity. If you feel you are some isolated 'thing' doing 'whatever it wants'...

Then you're wrong.
Human beings are isolated "things" doing what they do. What "you" are is potentially something else.

But if you are not a thing doing what it wants, how are you taking responsibility then?

GreatOldOne
10-17-2014, 04:56 PM
Human beings are isolated "things" doing what they do. What "you" are is potentially something else.

But if you are not a thing doing what it wants, how are you taking responsibility then?

How are you going to establish that human beings are isolated things doing what they do?

What's the plan?

Souls?

Despite what even the Christians (and Muslims and Buddhists/Hindus) will say...the only soul with a 'punch' so to speak comes in at least a substance dualist world (like Cartesian) (but really, it would be a reality with as many substances as souls + reality itself in which they interacted).

DizzySmalls
10-17-2014, 05:04 PM
How are you going to establish that human beings are isolated things doing what they do?

What's the plan?

Souls?

Despite what even the Christians (and Muslims and Buddhists/Hindus) will say...the only soul with a 'punch' so to speak comes in at least a substance dualist world (like Cartesian) (but really, it would be a reality with as many substances as souls + reality itself in which they interacted).
Hmmm, how about isolated organic configurations? People are organic configurations distinct from their surroundings. I didn't really mean beings per se


I'm not trying to claim multiple souls as the recipients of experience.
(reposted after your delete edit out of courtesy)

GreatOldOne
10-17-2014, 05:05 PM
Hmmm, how about isolated organic configurations? People are organic configurations distinct from their surroundings. I didn't really mean beings per se

Isolated by what?

There's nothing but arbitrary recognition between 'surfaces', 'beings', 'configurations'...etc. (Well, not exactly arbitrary, but representation-incorporating)

No difference between you and say...the sofa you're sitting on. You might complain about sofa as 'inorganic' but then that would be silly once you hold hands with another person.


Now...the Christians and those guys will mention this as if it were some kind of 'attack' against something I dunno what. But...it's simply a brute fact.

DizzySmalls
10-17-2014, 05:07 PM
Isolated by what?

There's nothing but arbitrary recognition between 'surfaces', 'beings', 'configurations'...etc.

No difference between you and say...the sofa you're sitting on.


Now...the Christians and those guys will mention this as if it were some kind of 'attack' against something I dunno what. But...it's simply a brute fact.
I'm not saying that I am a distinct organic configuration. I'm arguing that distinct organic configurations exist and they do simply what "they" must do. There's really only a subject and a predicate because I need to write a sentence

GreatOldOne
10-17-2014, 05:12 PM
Distinct from what?

Nothing is in isolation.

DizzySmalls
10-17-2014, 05:15 PM
Distinct from what?

Nothing is in isolation.
GOO is the message board. GOO is the misc and the misc is GOO

CalmWind
10-17-2014, 05:19 PM
Prayer is one of the most important things a human can do. It strengthens your ties to the Father. It helps you overcome the evil ones in the spiritual battleground. It gives you a direct line to God.

Furthermore, Prayer is a declaration by you, on Earth, of your submission to God and your acceptance of his Will in your life.

Now, it takes growing to understand WHAT to pray for.

Fiyero
10-17-2014, 05:22 PM
The function of prayer is not to influence God, but rather to change the nature of the one who prays. ~ KierkegaardAt the same time:

Luke 18:27 But He said, “The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.”

Matthew 7:7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."

Asking for God's intervention still seems to be an acceptable reason for prayer. It's just that a lot of things we truly need his help with are not answered.

DizzySmalls
10-17-2014, 05:29 PM
Matthew 7:7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."

Matthew 7:11 "If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!"

Do you think he is talking about personal, practical, earthly requests?

Fiyero
10-17-2014, 05:35 PM
Matthew 7:11 "If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!"

Do you think he is talking about personal, practical, earthly requests?It can, since the preceding two verses speak of food (bread and fish). What good gifts do you think that verse is referring to?

HELIX35
10-17-2014, 05:36 PM
ROFL at alchem and lasher

Congrats on doing more damage to your beliefs than anyone could ever do

CalmWind
10-17-2014, 05:38 PM
Asking for God's intervention still seems to be an acceptable reason for prayer. It's just that a lot of things we truly need his help with are not answered.

God will not answer prayers that are hurtful to you, or selfish. Sometimes we THINK we want something, or need something, according to our own plans for our lives - but in reality those things would not be good for us. And they would not help you grow in the spirit.

God knows more than you do about what you need or do not need. If you ask for things in prayer, that you are not supposed to be asking for, then you will not be answered.

But once you submit your will to God, and humble yourself, and focus on God's will, then you will begin to see God work in your life. And sometimes, God will even grant you things he didn't grant you before. Why? Because your heart changed.

DizzySmalls
10-17-2014, 05:39 PM
It can, since the preceding two verses speak of food (bread and fish). What good gifts do you think that verse is referring to?
The prior verses are saying that if you ask your father, even if he is a sinful person etc, for some bread, you don't get a rock. And God is much greater in generosity than the father. But I think you are missing the analogy between the worldly father providing the necessities such as bread, and the spiritual/heavenly father providing salvation. It seems that those in communion with God would bear the good fruit as a result, and avoid being burned like the trees that do not bear fruit.

cman1787
10-17-2014, 05:57 PM
Something I wondered even when I was a believer. If prayer worked, people would be a lot more careful in what they ask for.

Positive thoughts and self belief accomplish much more. If you're going to talk to yourself and/or meditate, might as well make it purely positive.

theres a lot of herp derp in this post

heres a hint: you have to have one pointed concentration for it to work

GreatOldOne
10-17-2014, 05:59 PM
GOO is the message board. GOO is the misc and the misc is GOO

I1wg1DNHbNU

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/190/003/1319347429001.jpg

Stizzel
10-17-2014, 06:03 PM
The function of prayer is not to influence God, but rather to change the nature of the one who prays. ~ Kierkegaard

Having an internal one sided dialogue sounds more like meditation

lasher
10-17-2014, 06:04 PM
ROFL at alchem and lasher

Congrats on doing more damage to your beliefs than anyone could ever do


because I said Kierkegaard's quote was interesting? WTF?


Not that I give flying chipmunk fuk about what you think, but lol.

Stizzel
10-17-2014, 06:13 PM
because I said Kierkegaard's quote was interesting? WTF?


Not that I give flying chipmunk fuk about what you think, but lol.

Helix gon' Helix brah

brettf2
10-17-2014, 06:49 PM
Prayer is similar to what is taking place on social media where people believe they can help a cause by giving 'likes'.

goody1
10-17-2014, 11:52 PM
Oh look. Another thread asking theists a question but the atheists in this board can't help but to run their mouth. New and exciting I must say

TranceNRG
10-18-2014, 12:11 AM
Why?

It keeps me connected to the divine program.

DizzySmalls
10-18-2014, 12:14 AM
Oh look. Another thread asking theists a question but the atheists in this board can't help but to run their mouth. New and exciting I must say
Oh look a person whining about persecution of theists :p

Athanasius90
10-18-2014, 12:20 AM
Oh look. Another thread asking theists a question but the atheists in this board can't help but to run their mouth. New and exciting I must say

No worries. A sewer also flows freely with much content and little substance

DizzySmalls
10-18-2014, 12:27 AM
No worries. A sewer also flows freely with much content and little substance
Is that how you win souls these days? lmao why are you up so late, I forget if you were Australian or something

Athanasius90
10-18-2014, 12:48 AM
Is that how you win souls these days? lmao why are you up so late, I forget if you were Australian or something
Yes, its how you win souls.

DizzySmalls
10-18-2014, 12:57 AM
Yes, its how you win souls.
Good luck with that.

Athanasius90
10-18-2014, 01:18 AM
Good luck with that.

Mostly you focus on substantive argument, but sometimes, the stragglers need a smack.

DizzySmalls
10-18-2014, 01:22 AM
Mostly you focus on substantive argument, but sometimes, the stragglers need a smack.
Just because you are impressed with yourself, doesn't mean other people are impressed with you. If they were, they would probably start investigating your line of thinking more. I know you may be slightly autistic (or was that someone else?) or highly eccentric in some ways, but you should know your constant arrogance and need for squabbles in which you can appear triumphant/superior is not the type of thing that will assist you, if you are genuine in your intent. Not that I have a problem with your desire to "smack"

Athanasius90
10-18-2014, 01:24 AM
Just because you are impressed with yourself, doesn't mean other people are impressed with you. If they were, they would probably start investigating your line of thinking more. I know you may be slightly autistic (or was that someone else?) or highly eccentric in some ways, but you should know your constant arrogance and need for squabbles in which you can appear triumphant/superior is not the type of thing that will assist you, if you are genuine in your intent. Not that I have a problem with your desire to "smack"


Is that the sound of ironing?

But really, its obvious people you debate with on the internet arent going to agree with your points or consider what you have to say, or research the position at any greater length than a forum or a youtube video. That's fairly uncontestable. What is important, is posting for the audience and letting them see your case and the non-case of the opposition.

DizzySmalls
10-18-2014, 01:25 AM
Is that the sound of ironing?
We don't have the same goals :)



But really, its obvious people you debate with on the internet arent going to agree with your points or consider what you have to say, or research the position at any greater length than a forum or a youtube video. That's fairly uncontestable. What is important, is posting for the audience and letting them see your case and the non-case of the opposition.
I venture a good portion of the time your only "audience" is your opposition when you are on the Internet, and even they aren't fully reading what you are writing lolll

Athanasius90
10-18-2014, 01:28 AM
We don't have the same goals :)


I venture a good portion of the time your only "audience" is your opposition when you are on the Internet, and even they aren't fully reading what you are writing lolll

You'd be surprised at whos reading and remaining silent.

FYI, calling someone autistic is a particularly low brow and dick move, bro. That aint gonna look good.

DizzySmalls
10-18-2014, 02:07 AM
You'd be surprised at whos reading and remaining silent.

FYI, calling someone autistic is a particularly low brow and dick move, bro. That aint gonna look good.
\_(ツ)_/¯

Cheer up, I'll have plenty of time to think about it in hell, right? Plus, in a strict grammatical sense, I didn't call you autistic.

GreatOldOne
10-18-2014, 05:28 AM
Somebody is trying to take souls in here?

VJBwB2g1tyQ

Stizzel
10-18-2014, 07:25 AM
\_(ツ)_/¯

Cheer up, I'll have plenty of time to think about it in hell, right? Plus, in a strict grammatical sense, I didn't call you autistic.

Don't feel bad, he left me a neg calling me a retard when I asked him how he knows what he claims to know.

GreatOldOne
10-18-2014, 08:32 AM
Don't feel bad, he left me a neg calling me a retard when I asked him how he knows what he claims to know.

*** DRUGS ***

XacvydVrhuI

:D Don't take that wrong way Athan. The wrong way being the way which pisses you off.

Athanasius90
10-18-2014, 06:28 PM
Don't feel bad, he left me a neg calling me a retard when I asked him how he knows what he claims to know.

I negged him for making me repeat myself 10 times and disappearing when I gathered the evidence of it.

TrettinR
10-19-2014, 06:08 AM
Because what's the point of having an imaginary friend if you're not going to talk to him from time to time?

GreatOldOne
10-19-2014, 06:27 AM
I negged him for making me repeat myself 10 times and disappearing when I gathered the evidence of it.

Ok. Here is a nice chart for your reference the next time the God issue comes to mind. This way. You won't forget. Anybody can read the chart.
































http://www.tikiwebgroup.com/crutchoftheweak/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2009/03/does-god-exist.jpg

hoop84
10-19-2014, 06:33 AM
Prayer is one of the most important things a human can do. It strengthens your ties to the Father. It helps you overcome the evil ones in the spiritual battleground. It gives you a direct line to God.

Furthermore, Prayer is a declaration by you, on Earth, of your submission to God and your acceptance of his Will in your life.

Now, it takes growing to understand WHAT to pray for.

This right here. God the father wants you to seek him out like any other relationship. God loves when his people come to him for one on one time to just be thankful and so on.

hoop84
10-19-2014, 06:36 AM
Ok. Here is a nice chart for your reference the next time the God issue comes to mind. This way. You won't forget. Anybody can read the chart.





http://www.tikiwebgroup.com/crutchoftheweak/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2009/03/does-god-exist.jpg


Is it me? or do atheist have some vendetta against God? If they don't believe and think its all fairy tale then why do they bother being so concerned with what we believe?

Athanasius90
10-19-2014, 06:40 AM
Is it me? or do atheist have some vendetta against God? If they don't believe and think its all fairy tale then why do they bother being so concerned with what we believe?

Fedorhetoric incoming.....

Swamp Dog
10-19-2014, 06:48 AM
Is it me? or do atheist have some vendetta against God? If they don't believe and think its all fairy tale then why do they bother being so concerned with what we believe?

I think it's because of the way Christians try to control/manipulate the actions of others. We have a hard enough time getting ourselves to act like Christians without trying to get others to do the same.
We should not be shocked that people don't adhere to our belief system until they have had an encounter with Christ.
We also should not be shocked that people get uptight that we think they are wrong, that's just the human condition.

GreatOldOne
10-19-2014, 07:11 AM
Is it me? or do atheist have some vendetta against God? If they don't believe and think its all fairy tale then why do they bother being so concerned with what we believe?

If children grew up and started worshiping Barney the purple dinosaur I'd be irritated by that as well.

Quit worshiping Barney and sadomasochist child-self-sacrificing women-blaming invisible monsters and we'll be good.


I think it's because of the way Christians try to control/manipulate the actions of others. We have a hard enough time getting ourselves to act like Christians without trying to get others to do the same.
We should not be shocked that people don't adhere to our belief system until they have had an encounter with Christ.
We also should not be shocked that people get uptight that we think they are wrong, that's just the human condition.

In part. It's because your beliefs are false, ridiculous, and harmful to society.

Athanasius90
10-19-2014, 07:22 AM
If children grew up and started worshiping Barney the purple dinosaur I'd be irritated by that as well.

Quit worshiping Barney and sadomasochist child-self-sacrificing women-blaming invisible monsters and we'll be good.



In part. It's because your beliefs are false, ridiculous, and harmful to society.

The second you accuse theism of being false is the very second you forfeit any right to say atheism is a mere "lack of belief".


If theism is so false and absurd you'd have no trouble with substantive and simple counterarguments as opposed to fedorhetoric and red herring

Swamp Dog
10-19-2014, 07:23 AM
If children grew up and started worshiping Barney the purple dinosaur I'd be irritated by that as well.

Quit worshiping Barney and sadomasochist child-self-sacrificing women-blaming invisible monsters and we'll be good.



In part. It's because your beliefs are false, ridiculous, and harmful to society.

Of course you believe that

GreatOldOne
10-19-2014, 07:24 AM
The second you accuse theism of being false is the very second you forfeit any right to say atheism is a mere "lack of belief".


If theism is so false and absurd you'd have no trouble with substantive and simple counterarguments as opposed to fedorhetoric and red herring

I try to just pick on specific religions which are obviously untrue. I don't care what is to be said about atheism as a category. Theism as a category is also quite useless.

I go into all sorts of substantive and simple counterarguments. Which one did you want to discuss?


Of course you believe that

Thank you.

lasher
10-19-2014, 08:07 AM
In part. It's because your beliefs are false, ridiculous, and harmful to society.

http://icanhasinternets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/middle8.jpg

GreatOldOne
10-19-2014, 08:36 AM
http://i.imgur.com/pd5YlTI.png

You're not at all perplexed by an all-powerful God who doesn't get what He wants at all times?

jaimeruiz99
10-19-2014, 09:10 AM
The second you accuse theism of being false is the very second you forfeit any right to say atheism is a mere "lack of belief".


If theism is so false and absurd you'd have no trouble with substantive and simple counterarguments as opposed to fedorhetoric and red herring

I work in the psychiatric industry. In my line of work, I've dealt with many schizophrenic individuals.

The hardest aspect with regards to dealing with such people isn't so much as attempting to disprove their schizophrenic rantings - it is getting them to see and understand that their delusions are incompatible with reality.

Tamorlane
10-19-2014, 09:22 AM
Is it me? or do atheist have some vendetta against God? If they don't believe and think its all fairy tale then why do they bother being so concerned with what we believe?


Einstein once mentioned this: "I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth."

It's not just the indoctrination from youth. People throughout the world and time will always ponder the question of god, if taught or learned, because the question stems from a search for protection in that which we consider our selves. We want protection. But is that which we take to be our selves really ours? Are our bodies ours?


Prayer is one of the most important things a human can do. It strengthens your ties to the Father. It helps you overcome the evil ones in the spiritual battleground. It gives you a direct line to God.

Prayer is like meditation if done properly and what it is doing in terms of cause-and-effect, is calming the mind in an existence where it is rarely calmed. It will create tranquility, equanimity, and better insight for the sheer purpose that it can make your self, your greed for sense pleasures, less severe. By not being selfish, there is no greed and hate. With no greed and hate, you can better see things as they are instead of wanting to see them a certain way.

But by praying to a being you have never seen or experienced in a tangible way, you are reaching out in the dark hoping for a helping hand. Meanwhile ignoring things here and now, one example being the ignoble search of leaning out in the dark hoping for a hand.

Here is something pope francis said about prayer that reminded me of a quote by the Buddha;

Francis:

"Before I accepted I asked if I could spend a few minutes in the room next to the one with the balcony overlooking the square. My head was completely empty and I was seized by a great anxiety. To make it go away and relax I closed my eyes and made every thought disappear, even the thought of refusing to accept the position, as the liturgical procedure allows. I closed my eyes and I no longer had any anxiety or emotion. At a certain point I was filled with a great light. It lasted a moment, but to me it seemed very long. Then the light faded, I got up suddenly and walked into the room where the cardinals were waiting and the table on which was the act of acceptance. I signed it, the Cardinal Camerlengo countersigned it and then on the balcony there was the ‘Habemus Papam.’”

Buddha:
Whoever, whether standing or walking,
sitting or lying down,
calms his mind,
and strives for that inner stillness,
in which there is no thought,
he has the prerequisite,
to realize supreme illumination.