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MSKFAHIM
10-07-2014, 03:50 AM
Hi,

I think its about time I have proper nutrition to aid me in my fitness goals. Please help with suggestions and advice if you can. I do not need anything super optimized. I just need something within the ballpark.

Age: 25
Height: 5'7-8
Weight: 174 lbs / 79 kgs
Activity level: Well, I do 3 sessions of Stronglifts a week. I am also incorporating 30-60 mins of low intensity cardio on each training day after workouts. Besides that I do not do much of anything physical.

I used the following site to calculate my figures: http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/ (have to redo the calculation when my weight drops by 5 lbs /2 KG )
I chose 10% calorie reduction. And this is what the calculator spit out:

Protein: 20% (141 grams)
Carb: 60% (426 grams)
Fat: 20% (063 grams)

Protein Consumption: 0.81 g/lb

Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) : 1836
Daily calories to maintain weight (TDEE): 3168
Daily calories(based on 10% deficit): 2851


Now comes the difficult part:

I struggle to find foods that I can consume to make sure that I am having 2851 kcals while maintaining this = Protein-Carb-Fat:141-426-063

I have MyfitnessPal already downloaded. Most of the food I can get here cannot be scanned and therefore I probably have to rely on other methods of getting the nutritional information. Do you think I'll benefit from buying measuring cups, food scales, etc? Do you have any suggestions? Please feel free to help me out. I just want it to be simple. I do not need exotic food. I just need to hit my goals by the simplest means.


FAHIM

AFC96
10-07-2014, 03:57 AM
i suggest you read the stickies. Percentages/ratios for macros are outdated

Hulkenberg82
10-07-2014, 04:00 AM
1) Don't use ratios (P: %, C: %, F: %)

2) Yes, definately buy at least a food scale

SuffolkPunch
10-07-2014, 04:22 AM
Set protein and fat minimums. Eat foods that meet or exceed those minimums - the rest of your calorie budget doesn't have to be purely from carb, it can be from any combination of pro/fat/carb. There is no reason to hit the exact numbers you have above, as you found this is just making meal planning harder.

MSKFAHIM
10-07-2014, 05:24 AM
i suggest you read the stickies. Percentages/ratios for macros are outdated

I am not sure what you mean there. Will I be arriving at significantly different figures by following whatever alternative method exists out there? If not, for the sake of simplicity, I will follow this calculator. Of course you can tell me why its a bad idea as I am not knowledgeable in this sector.

MSKFAHIM
10-07-2014, 05:26 AM
1) Don't use ratios (P: %, C: %, F: %)

2) Yes, definately buy at least a food scale

1. Why? Will I arrive at significantly different numbers otherwise? I am planning to keep this as simple as possible for now.

2. I went looking for a body fat caliper, coudn't find one here. I'll try to get measuring cups and a scale tomorrow.

ecominetti
10-07-2014, 05:47 AM
1. Why? Will I arrive at significantly different numbers otherwise? I am planning to keep this as simple as possible for now.

2. I went looking for a body fat caliper, coudn't find one here. I'll try to get measuring cups and a scale tomorrow.
1. Yes. Using % will usually overstimate pro on a bulking diet and understimate fat on a cut diet (your fat number appears to be a little too low, for instance)

Hulkenberg82
10-07-2014, 05:48 AM
1. Why? Will I arrive at significantly different numbers otherwise? I am planning to keep this as simple as possible for now.

Because the body doesn't care about ratios. It works based on sufficient quantity per mass. As was suggested, you should read the stickies in this section to understand why and how :)

To keep it short, you could eat e.g. 1g of protein and 0.5g of fat MINIMUM per bodyweight (lbs). The rest of your macros can come from whatever macronutrient you prefer.


2. I went looking for a body fat caliper, coudn't find one here. I'll try to get measuring cups and a scale tomorrow.

Try Amazon or eBay for a body fat caliper. A scale will help you a lot.

MSKFAHIM
10-07-2014, 07:07 AM
Because the body doesn't care about ratios. It works based on sufficient quantity per mass. As was suggested, you should read the stickies in this section to understand why and how :)

To keep it short, you could eat e.g. 1g of protein and 0.5g of fat MINIMUM per bodyweight (lbs). The rest of your macros can come from whatever macronutrient you prefer.



Try Amazon or eBay for a body fat caliper. A scale will help you a lot.

Well, I am currently stuck in the third world. No ebay/amazon here :( . I'll try to manage one though.

The thing you said about the macro nutrient is interesting. I will surely look at that. I just loved scooby's website because it was simple and the calculator did all the work for me.

SuffolkPunch
10-07-2014, 07:17 AM
I just loved scooby's website because it was misleadingly simple and the calculator gave me false notions of required precision.
Fixed.

Reread my post above.

Meet calorie target

Meet or exceed protein and fat MINIMUM levels.

MSKFAHIM
10-07-2014, 07:56 AM
Fixed.

Reread my post above.

Meet calorie target

Meet or exceed protein and fat MINIMUM levels.


hahaha... that was ridiculous! I am sure scooby means well.

So my TDEE stays the same. I want to go on a 10% deficit so I know my calorie target.

What should be my minimum protein and fat targets?




1. Protein: Protein intake is a bit of a controversial issue in nutrition. The general recommendations given in the 'bodybuilding' area are nearly double the 'standard' recommendations given in the Sports Nutrition Arena.
So - GENERAL sports nutrition guideline based on clinical trials suggest that in the face of ADEQUATE calories and CARBS the following protein intakes are sufficient:
STRENGTH training -> 1.4 to 2g per KG bodyweight (about .6 / pound)
ENDURANCE training -> 1.2 to 1.8g per KG bodyweight (about .8 / pound)
ADOLESCENT in training -> 1.8 to 2.2g per KG bodyweight (about 1g / pound)
BUT this is 'sufficient' intakes for training. One should note that ADEQUATE v's OPTIMAL is not discussed when it comes to hypertrophy v's 'athlete performance'.
Researchers also acknowledge that protein becomes MORE important in the context of LOWER calorie intakes, or LOWER carb intakes.
Recent evidence also suggests that protein intakes of 2.2-3g/kg in lean athletes help with LEAN MASS RETENTION, and the physiological and psychological stressors associated with high volume or intense training.
Anecdotally, most find HIGHER protein intake better for satiety, partitioning, blood sugar control, and hypertrophy. So UNLESS you have medical reasons for lower protein, or unless guided by a sports nutritionist or physician I would suggest BODYBUILDING values.

General 'bodybuilding' guidelines:
- Moderate bodyfat, Moderate training load, moderate calorie = 2.0-2.5g per lean kg weight (about 0.9-1.2g per pound)
- Low bodyfat or Very Low Calorie, Low Carb, High training load = 2.2-3g per lean kg weight (1.0-1.3g per pound)
- High bodyfat, high calorie, Low training load = 1.6 to 2.2g per lean kg weight (.75-1g per pound)


2. Fats: Generally speaking, although the body can get away with short periods of very low fat, in the long run your body NEEDS fat to maintain health, satiety, and sanity. Additionally - any form of high intensity training will benefit from a 'fat buffer' in your diet - which controls free radical damage & inflammation. General guides:
Average or low bodyfat: 1-2g fat/ kg body weight [between 0.4-1g total weight/ pounds]
High bodyfat: 1-2g fat/ Kg LEAN weight [between 0.4-1g LEAN weight/ pounds]
Low calorie dieting: You can decrease further, but as a minimum, I would not suggest LESS than about 0.30g/ pound.
Note 1: Total fat intake is NOT the same as 'essential fats' (essential fats are specific TYPES of fats that are INCLUDED in your total fat intake)...


3. Carbs: Carbs are important for athletes, ACTIVE individuals, or those trying to GAIN MASS. [carbs help with workout intensity, health, & satiety (+ sanity)]. THEY ARE NOT THE DEVIL. For carbs there are no specific 'requirements'. But...
For 'general gymers'- you simply find the calories left over from subtracting fats/ protein from your TEE:
remaining cals = Total cal needs - ([protein grams x 4] + [fat grams x 9])
Therefore grams carbs = (remaining cals)/ 4

BUT: If you are an athlete involved in a good volume of training I would suggest you forget all the above and start by CALCULATING a requirement for carbs as:
Moderately active: 4.5 - 6.5 g/ kg (about 2 - 3g/ pound)
High active: 6.5 - 8.5 g/ kg (about 3 - 4g/ pound)
INTENSE activity: + 8.5g / kg (more than 4g/ pound)
Then find your protein as above normal. Fats then form the remaining cals from your TEE:
remaining cals = Total cal needs - ([protein grams x 4] + [carb grams x 4])
Therefore grams fats = (remaining cals)/ 9

Based on that:

- I don't know my bodyfat percentage. How would I figure out my "lean kg body weight" without that?

- Should I stick to .5g / kg ?

- For my carbs, I just see how much calories I have left to eat and fill that up with carbs?

SuffolkPunch
10-07-2014, 08:04 AM
The fat and protein numbers you have above are fine for minimums.

No you don't fill ALL leftover calories with carbs because that means hitting exact numbers again (unless you want to). Any combination of carb/fat/pro is fine. This is supposed to make meal planning more flexible.

MSKFAHIM
10-07-2014, 08:18 AM
The fat and protein numbers you have above are fine for minimums.

No you don't fill ALL leftover calories with carbs because that means hitting exact numbers again (unless you want to). Any combination of carb/fat/pro is fine. This is supposed to make meal planning more flexible.

I think I got it now!!! Tell me if this sounds right:

The protein and fat I need are covered by the minimums. The remaining calories can come from whatever AS LONG AS I DO NOT EXCEED OR FALL SHORT of my CALORIE GOAL. As long as I am not exceeding or falling short of calorie goal I should be on the right track. Correct?

If I am right, then: is it not true that carbs help with the energy required for living and working out? Shouldn't there be some carb minimum? or can the excess protein and fat be converted to carbs or energy?

Anaerobics
10-07-2014, 09:31 AM
I think I got it now!!! Tell me if this sounds right:

The protein and fat I need are covered by the minimums. The remaining calories can come from whatever AS LONG AS I DO NOT EXCEED OR FALL SHORT of my CALORIE GOAL. As long as I am not exceeding or falling short of calorie goal I should be on the right track. Correct?

If I am right, then: is it not true that carbs help with the energy required for living and working out? Shouldn't there be some carb minimum? or can the excess protein and fat be converted to carbs or energy?

CORRECT.

You don't need a minimum carbs, it just helps fill up your caloric goal! I consume a banana before heading to the gym just for a little kick of energy for example. Carbs are really nice to have but there is no range really. Just hit your protein and fat minimums and then focus on calories.

MSKFAHIM
10-07-2014, 10:40 AM
Thanks guys, the nutrition thing is beginning to seem more simpler now.

Additional question: If I am on say, a 10% calorie deficit, should I be doing the 30-60 mins of low intensity steady state cardio? I burn up to 500 Kcals doing that. Wouldn't that end up creating a very large deficit? For example:

Available energy: 3186 - 318.6 - 500 = 2367.4

I will then lose 25% of my TDEE. Doesn't this contradict my plan of 10% deficit? If I do the cardio only on weight training days, then for cardio:

Calories burnt in a week: 1500
Month(4 weeks/28 days): 6000
Calories burnt per day: 214

Which then makes the available calories per day: 3186 - 318.6 - 214 = 2653 kcals

The deficit now becomes 16.7 percent. That is still a lot over my 10% goal. Is cardio necessary at all? I do not wish to get super hungry or feel really low in energy everyday.

Hulkenberg82
10-07-2014, 11:26 AM
Cardio isn't necessary, but I for example like to eat so I do cardio to increase my TDEE.

As long as you are consistent with what you do, you should see results. Weigh yourself at the same time of the day (mornings) if you weigh yourself every day. Try to eat about the same amount of calories over a period of time and try to find out your maintenance calories. Then adjust from there to either lose weight or gain weight / mass.

MetilHed
10-07-2014, 11:37 AM
Regular exercise you do should already be accounted for/factored into TDEE

Hulkenberg82
10-07-2014, 11:42 AM
Regular exercise you do should already be accounted for/factored into TDEE

Yes, I should have expressed myself better. I mean if I know I'm going to eat something heavier in the evening or have a Bday party to go to where I know I will eat something out of my schedule, I will do an extra lap around the lake to burn some more calories.

Gen1GT
10-07-2014, 12:35 PM
1. Why? Will I arrive at significantly different numbers otherwise? I am planning to keep this as simple as possible for now.

2. I went looking for a body fat caliper, coudn't find one here. I'll try to get measuring cups and a scale tomorrow.


I know you're on board, so this is moot, but perhaps I can help with the "why?"

Imagine a clydesdale triathlete training for an event, and his TDE is 7000 cal/day. Imagine he set his macros at 30p/40c/30f%. He'd be consuming 233 grams of fat and 525 grams of protein, both obviously excessive.

Now, imagine a fellow is doing a cut for a competition, and is eating 1000 cal/day, and following your 20/60/20% rule. He’s be eating 22g fat and 50g of protein, which we know on a cut is all wrong.

Ideally, we take a 100 kg guy, and find his protein and fat requirements. I would put him at 160-220g protein, and 80-100g fat (minimum), and this is regardless of activity level and TDEE. He’d be free to pile on the carbs for energy as per his requirements, and perhaps some more fat, too.

MSKFAHIM
10-08-2014, 12:07 AM
I know you're on board, so this is moot, but perhaps I can help with the "why?"

Imagine a clydesdale triathlete training for an event, and his TDE is 7000 cal/day. Imagine he set his macros at 30p/40c/30f%. He'd be consuming 233 grams of fat and 525 grams of protein, both obviously excessive.

Now, imagine a fellow is doing a cut for a competition, and is eating 1000 cal/day, and following your 20/60/20% rule. He’s be eating 22g fat and 50g of protein, which we know on a cut is all wrong.

Ideally, we take a 100 kg guy, and find his protein and fat requirements. I would put him at 160-220g protein, and 80-100g fat (minimum), and this is regardless of activity level and TDEE. He’d be free to pile on the carbs for energy as per his requirements, and perhaps some more fat, too.

Thanks, I got it. I thought that the percentages were a must thing. I can see why setting protein/fat minimums and filling the rest with whatever you like while you do not go under or over your calorie goals is a much simpler and superior method.

I have a question about TDEE:

When I used scooby's website to calculate that, I chose "5-6 hours of strenuous exercise per week" under the ACTIVITY LEVEL. I chose that option because I plan to do my 3 days a week Stronglifts sessions along with 30-60 mins of steady state low intensity cardio after the session. Doesn't that justify the option I chose? StrongLifts session takes me about an hour and I wish to do the cardios after the sessions.

MSKFAHIM
10-08-2014, 12:09 AM
@ People who have done strength training while being on a deficit:

Is it a bad idea? I fear that I might burnout or something.

AFC96
10-08-2014, 12:14 AM
@ People who have done strength training while being on a deficit:

Is it a bad idea? I fear that I might burnout or something.

Don't even think about burning out. Just go to the gym and lift. Its unlikely you will burnout. Follow a proven beginner's program.

benstuart2519
10-08-2014, 05:02 AM
Hello,
I just want to tell you that don't need to worry anything you should exercise, eat healthy and nutritious and take proper rest. everything will go good.