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Christo1987
09-04-2014, 05:53 AM
Okay, In October 2013 I began lifting, but I only had access to cable machines, and my diet wasn't exactly great. I was real skinny so ate huge amounts to try and pack some weight on and got up to 188lb.

In May I started cutting down from 188lbs down to 177lb. I dropped to 177 and decided that I was too skinny, 177 at 6' 1" isn't a good look for anyone. I lost a lot of body fat, but also lost a lot of muscle mass.

At the start of August I joined a better gym with freeweights, and plate loading machines rather than cables. I decided to start a lean bulk at the same time as joining a "real" gym. I want to add some muscle back to my frame, obviously some fat gain will come with this and I'm prepared for it.

I've actually added 5lbs in the first month but figure most of this will be carrying more food/water/glycogen. I appear to have added very little body fat too. I'm hoping that of the 5lbs, 1lb is muscle.

Is it normal to gain a lot in the first month?

I'm 6'1, lift 5x a week, i'm eating 2950 kcals a day. Macros:

230 protein 310 carbs 85 fat.

Will the macros/calories be enough to support muscle growth at my height? Should I be eating more?

Now starting my second month of bulking, eating "clean" foods, with a cheat or two at the weekends (for me a cheat is when macros are not necessarily met). I've also started an 8 week run of Triazole and am a week in, definitely feeling the effects.

At the moment my main compound lifts are at:

220 x 5 deadlift
90 x 10 bench (my chest is weak)
135 x 10 squat

Another question, in my previous gym, having used only cable machines for 8 months, I don't feel like an experienced lifter. Can I expect to see some noob gains?

timofay99
09-04-2014, 06:01 AM
you really have to experiment for yourself. im starting a lean bulk too and im just adding 100 to my maintenence until im gaining at the rate im aiming for (1-2 lbs per month). the slower the gain, the less fat gain

Connor1226
09-04-2014, 06:08 AM
Don't get mad at me for asking this question, but do super skinny guys really need to worry about bulking too "dirty"?

Gaining 5lbs a month isn't a lean bulk. That's over a pound per week. However, I don't think you have much to be worried about if you feel that you are packing on the muscle and the fat gain isn't too bad.
If you feel the fat gain is too much then back off on the cals.

I've gained 3lbs in three weeks of bulking. The scale has gone up but honestly I don't feel like I've gained any weight at all. Even though I'm gaining more than I technically should, I'm not going to worry about it at all until I feel I'm gaining fat at an unreasonable rate. Plus I'm in month 1, I'm sure the weight is going to flux simply from a change in routine.

Bulking will be very individual and is based on a lot of factors. So just make a change, note it's impact over the period of a few weeks, then adjust accordingly. With time and experience with different lifts and diet, over time you'll be able to rein in on what your body responds well to and it will get easier.

I don't think you really disadvantaged yourself THAT much by initially only using cable machines. There is a big advantage to them because they provide consistent tension throughout the movement. Is it optimal to stick to just one form of exercise? No. But I doubt it set you up for failure.

You could expect some newbie gains. Especially if your workout routine to begin with wasn't the best and you lost a lot of muscle on your first cut.

Just stick with things and adjust when you see things aren't going as planned.

taha11
09-04-2014, 07:17 AM
macro setups are completely unique and everyone is different because of their genetics, metabolism, etc. all you can do is trial and error until you find your groove. i would say thats a good start but 230g of protein is a bit much , i would suggest maybe taking a little protein out and adding in some carbs for more energy during your lifts.

again about the noob gains everyone is different but first time i started lifting free weights (sophmore year of highschool) i gained 15 lbs in 3 months so maybe you'll see those "noob gains"

Mrpb
09-04-2014, 07:31 AM
Is it normal to gain a lot in the first month?

Yes.



230 protein 310 carbs 85 fat.

Protein 1 gram per lb would be enough but you can eat more if you want to.



Will the macros/calories be enough to support muscle growth at my height? Should I be eating more?

For a lean bulk at your stats I recommend gaining 2 pounds per month excluding inital water weight gain.


Don't get mad at me for asking this question, but do super skinny guys really need to worry about bulking too "dirty"?

At 6'1", 182 lbs he's probably skinny fat, meaning he's already carrying significant body fat. According to his profile 15%.

InItForFitness
09-04-2014, 07:37 AM
Don't get mad at me for asking this question, but do super skinny guys really need to worry about bulking too "dirty"?

Gaining 5lbs a month isn't a lean bulk. That's over a pound per week. However, I don't think you have much to be worried about if you feel that you are packing on the muscle and the fat gain isn't too bad.
If you feel the fat gain is too much then back off on the cals.


^^^^ +1


Anecdotal evidence, whether some wish to accept it or not, is relevant to an extent, and someone shouldn't be afraid to push A BIT beyond the 'norm', especially considering this is your first real bulking experience.



Now, this is not a suggestion to throw caution for the wind and just start packing on as much weight as possible.
But an upward limit of 4lbs/month or 1lb/week is not entirely unreasonable.

During my first bulk I packed on a little over 30lbs in (roughly) a 10 month time frame, or 3lb/month, and was able to stay lean/visible throughout the entire duration.
Likely had more room for development had I pushed a bit harder.



Use the advice/evidence based suggestions as a BASELINE for self experimentation.

Mrpb
09-04-2014, 07:48 AM
During my first bulk I packed on a little over 30lbs in (roughly) a 10 month time frame, or 3lb/month, and was able to stay lean/visible throughout the entire duration.
Likely had more room for development had I pushed a bit harder.

Those are great results for a first bulk. If I remember correctly you were very lean at the beginning of it, ~10% iirc.

The OP's situation might be a bit different. Gaining a pound per week at 15% body fat... I'd be worried about fat gain.

Christo1987
09-04-2014, 08:47 AM
The OP's situation might be a bit different. Gaining a pound per week at 15% body fat... I'd be worried about fat gain.

15% is just my estimate. In all honesty, I don't know what my bf% is. I tend to over-estimate these things.

For what it's worth my top 4 abs are visible bottom ones not so much. I can see separation between my shoulders, biceps, and triceps. I can see a clearly defined "dip" from my collarbone between shoulder and peck. I also have that "V" shape from my hips down to my groin.

I'm hoping the lb/week is mostly more retained water, greater volume of food, glycogen, some fat and some muscle. Ideally I do want to be gaining .5lb/week as I don't want to lose all of the definition I gained from cutting. I'll try upload some pics when I get home pre and post cut, and one from earlier this week.

InItForFitness
09-04-2014, 10:56 AM
Those are great results for a first bulk. If I remember correctly you were very lean at the beginning of it, ~10% iirc.

The OP's situation might be a bit different. Gaining a pound per week at 15% body fat... I'd be worried about fat gain.

I'm not suggesting he disregard all concern for monitoring fat development during the process, simply that baselines are just that and there is always room for self-experimentation in the realm of development.


Of course the suggestions based on studies are always the best route and starting point for beginners, but it also feels as if they could be (potentially) limiting the potential for further development by making them feel as if they MUST fall within that range of .5lbs/week gain and will spend too much time dicking around trying to hit it and worrying about going over...when, in all actuality, I doubt falling on the .75-1lb/week range is going to do much harm.

Although, again, it will be highly individualized, which is why I suggest baselines + anecdotal evidence.

Christo1987
09-04-2014, 12:17 PM
So, here's the pic.

Top right is pre-cut @ 188lbs

Left is post cut @ 177lbs

Bottom right is 4 days ago (1 month in to bulk) @ 182lbs

InItForFitness
09-04-2014, 12:31 PM
You've got serious room to grow brah.

BF%...idk.
But you're good.


Time to start developing.
Listen to the advice provided throughout the thread thus far and get to work.




If you're interested in a bit more reading on the subject feel free to check out this write-up, as it may assist you a bit further ; http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=163115561

Christo1987
09-04-2014, 12:37 PM
Thanks for the reply man! Yeah I know I'm tiny haha. I had weight issues when I was younger. Was obese, like 240lb obese, developed an eating disorder during weight loss, at one point I was 6'1" and 140lbs. I was about 155lbs when I started lifting. Kinda terrified of getting fat again.

I'm not sweating the bf% too much, as I can cut again, but ideally i'd like to retain some definition.

InItForFitness
09-04-2014, 12:45 PM
Thanks for the reply man! Yeah I know I'm tiny haha. I had weight issues when I was younger. Was obese, like 240lb obese, developed an eating disorder during weight loss, at one point I was 6'1" and 140lbs. I was about 155lbs when I started lifting. Kinda terrified of getting fat again.

I'm not sweating the bf% too much, as I can cut again, but ideally i'd like to retain some definition.

Don't worry about it brotha, we all start somewhere.
Feel free to look at my BodySpace and check out my 'Before & After' pictures....you'll see tiny :P


It's natural to undergo a bit of bodydysmorphia (body image issues) during this process and the fear of gaining fat is also natural.

But it's important to remember that you're not living the lifestyle you used to.
There is a difference in eating just to eat...and eating to satisfy a goal.

Yes you're going to be eating more, and it's natural to be afraid of getting fat, buty= youv'e got to remember that you're now training properly and those nutrients aren't just going to be stored and make you fat, they're going to be utilized in the development of some quality, hard muscle...they are essential to this process.


So push through this fear at the start, give the process time, eat well, and watch as your body develops and grows while you begin to put on some quality size.
In a years time you're going to look back and thank yourself.

thinkgreen
09-04-2014, 01:16 PM
At the moment my main compound lifts are at:

220 x 5 deadlift
90 x 10 bench (my chest is weak)
135 x 10 squat

Another question, in my previous gym, having used only cable machines for 8 months, I don't feel like an experienced lifter. Can I expect to see some noob gains?

Yes, those numbers are girl numbers. I would imagine you'd make some nice noob gains.

Christo1987
09-04-2014, 01:51 PM
Yes, those numbers are girl numbers. I would imagine you'd make some nice noob gains.

Haha girl numbers.

At least I'm not the guy in the headband curling the 10lb DBs with his fitbit on.

Christo1987
09-05-2014, 05:35 AM
Don't worry about it brotha, we all start somewhere.
Feel free to look at my BodySpace and check out my 'Before & After' pictures....you'll see tiny :P


It's natural to undergo a bit of bodydysmorphia (body image issues) during this process and the fear of gaining fat is also natural.

But it's important to remember that you're not living the lifestyle you used to.
There is a difference in eating just to eat...and eating to satisfy a goal.

Yes you're going to be eating more, and it's natural to be afraid of getting fat, buty= youv'e got to remember that you're now training properly and those nutrients aren't just going to be stored and make you fat, they're going to be utilized in the development of some quality, hard muscle...they are essential to this process.


So push through this fear at the start, give the process time, eat well, and watch as your body develops and grows while you begin to put on some quality size.
In a years time you're going to look back and thank yourself.

I'll check our your bodyspace.

I've definitely grown in the last month of bulking, shirts feel a bit tighter, especially round the arms/chest.
I'm trying not to be afraid of gaining fat though, I don't think i've gained much in the last month. What I have gained sits around my lower abdomen/hips/lower back. That's where I store it first.

I'll keep eating, keep training, and try bit a bit stricter with macros at the weekends. It's tough as I'm always out and about with my girlfriend and we always end up eating junk food.

I'll bulk until next Feb and see if I want to cut then.

Mrpb
09-05-2014, 07:18 AM
I'll keep eating, keep training, and try bit a bit stricter with macros at the weekends. It's tough as I'm always out and about with my girlfriend and we always end up eating junk food.

"Junkfood" doesn't have to be a problem. Just make it fit your macros. And stay away from industrial trans fats.

Remember that fats it's just a minimum. You can go over it, just stay in your calories.

You don't need as much protein as you're aiming for. 180 gram would be plenty.

InItForFitness
09-05-2014, 07:19 AM
"Junkfood" doesn't have to be a problem. Just make it fit your macros. And stay away from industrial trans fats.

This ^^^


Those foods that everyone fears are perfectly acceptable.
Keep it in moderation/balance and partner with a well composed diet that is plentinful in both macro+micro-nutrient content and focus on your caloric target.


If doing so, those 'junkfoods' will not be an issue.