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View Full Version : TRUTH 101:Chris Bosh before he went to Miami was 24 ppg/11 rpg



TaeBoNinja
06-13-2014, 08:16 AM
And Lebron's ball hogging turned him into a spot up shooter. So he's forced to eat Lebron's scraps, and too far from the basket to be a factor on the boards.

When people say Lebron has no help, they should say Lebron doesn't know how to use his help. He makes stars worse. Even if he got Melo he would just turn him into Mike Miller.

Alwaysprolol
06-13-2014, 08:17 AM
true, if bosh played like raptor bosh then gg

TaeBoNinja
06-13-2014, 08:20 AM
true, if bosh played like raptor bosh then gg
Yep. in comparison, Pau Gasol got better in LA, and Kobe worked out a good 2 man game between them. I don't understand why Lebron never did this with Bosh.

jross2021
06-13-2014, 08:22 AM
Das fukin it mane. Couldn't agree more. The team is built around LeBron and in return it's been a serious detriment to Bosh's talents.

Everyone in real life tries to say bosh sucks or is done. He's just not being utilized correctly because the team is built for LeBron to succeed.

Alwaysprolol
06-13-2014, 08:23 AM
lelayup needs the paint cleared so he can bullrush to the basket and flail for an and 1, so bosh is stuck on the perimeter

waytoodeep03
06-13-2014, 08:24 AM
Wade before miami was like 25 pts per game

AirCanada
06-13-2014, 08:24 AM
Yep. in comparison, Pau Gasol got better in LA, and Kobe worked out a good 2 man game between them. I don't understand why Lebron never did this with Bosh.

You mean relegating a 20/10 star big man who got to the line 8 times a game to being a spot up shooter from 18 feet and further isn't a great idea?

Surely you must be mistaken, I've been led to believe that Lebron makes everyone better.

4567081110
06-13-2014, 08:26 AM
Yep. in comparison, Pau Gasol got better in LA, and Kobe worked out a good 2 man game between them. I don't understand why Lebron never did this with Bosh.

Kobe is more of a jump shooter and him having a big man banging down low is much more beneficial than LeBron who needs a clear lane to operate.

I see where you're coming from, but their play styles are so contradictory. Kobe has always done better with a big man, whereas LeBron has always thrived with having 3pt shooters surrounding him.

Dano85
06-13-2014, 08:28 AM
Kobe is more of a jump shooter and him having a big man banging down low is much more beneficial than LeBron who needs a clear lane to operate.

I see where you're coming from, but their play styles are so contradictory. Kobe has always done better with a big man, whereas LeBron has always thrived with having 3pt shooters surrounding him.

If only they could get him some decent 3 point shooters right...

vtecaddict
06-13-2014, 08:28 AM
Raptor bosh was a young kev garnett in the making

Then he got ring.hungry and left one of the best fanbases in the nba

TaeBoNinja
06-13-2014, 08:35 AM
Kobe is more of a jump shooter and him having a big man banging down low is much more beneficial than LeBron who needs a clear lane to operate.

I see where you're coming from, but their play styles are so contradictory. Kobe has always done better with a big man, whereas LeBron has always thrived with having 3pt shooters surrounding him.
Oh I don't disagree with you on this. That's why I thought those Cleveland teams were perfect for Lebron. They didn't have star power, but the were 60-win teams built around Lebron's style of play.

It's a catch-22. If you surround him with shooters, then they say he doesn't have help. But if you put stars next to him, they become under-utlized and they still say he doesn't have help.

cashinout
06-13-2014, 08:37 AM
2 championships (soon to be 3) isn't enough
you're so right

smh

waytoodeep03
06-13-2014, 08:39 AM
I see bosh leaving for more money real soon. He has rings he doesnt need to leave a legacy in the NBA. Maybe he goes to OKC

SF49ers
06-13-2014, 08:39 AM
2 championships (soon to be 3) isn't enough
you're so right

smh

So we have your word you will return the next day after the series is finished? No matter how it plays out...

RoxasBrah
06-13-2014, 08:41 AM
Heat fans have the audacity to complain about a 17ppg(52%) 7rpg 3rd option who rarely touches the ball. Also is forced to blitz PnRs the entire game/series while guarding players bigger than him the whole time.

Maybe if Lebron had a reliable mid range game Bosh would be able to flourish.

jross2021
06-13-2014, 08:42 AM
I see bosh leaving for more money real soon. He has rings he doesnt need to leave a legacy in the NBA. Maybe he goes to OKC

Will gladly take him.

Westbrook
Jackson
Durant
Ibaka
Bosh

RoxasBrah
06-13-2014, 08:44 AM
Will gladly take him.

Westbrook
Jackson
Durant
Ibaka
Bosh5 straight championships even with Scott Brooks.

Lawd!

jsmoor09
06-13-2014, 08:45 AM
Whatever they're doing with Bosh, it's OBVIOUSLY worked.

4 Straighit NBA Finals with 2 rings to show for it=success.

And, sure they drag him out on offense, but is he just never around a rebound on defense? 6'11 and averaging under 7 rebs?

If I'm him, I'd want to be a legit 2nd option. And if Wade's demise proves to be happening RIGHT NOW, then he may have that in Miami. But, I'd certainly want to see what else is out there situation wise if I'm him.

RoxasBrah
06-13-2014, 08:48 AM
Whatever they're doing with Bosh, it's OBVIOUSLY worked.

4 Straighit NBA Finals with 2 rings to show for it=success.

And, sure they drag him out on offense, but is he just never around a rebound on defense? 6'11 and averaging under 7 rebs?

If I'm him, I'd want to be a legit 2nd option. And if Wade's demise proves to be happening RIGHT NOW, then he may have that in Miami. But, I'd certainly want to see what else is out there situation wise if I'm him.Please tell me how he is supposed to have more rebounds while blitzing the Pick and Roll at the top of the key every game?

TaeBoNinja
06-13-2014, 08:49 AM
2 championships (soon to be 3) isn't enough
you're so right

smh
On a SRS note, think about this for a second. If Lebron had stayed with Cleveland, and brought over a FA in 2011 like some had hoped.......the Cavs would probably have 2 rings anyway. The teams those Cavs had to face were tougher than the Miami opponents, and the Cavs looked more dominant. I don't think Lebron goes full potato in 2011 on the Cavs, and I don't think the 2012 Thunder beat them.

What good is Wade/Bosh if they are utilized at a star level. Lebron would have been better off tweeking the Cav roster. His whole legacy would be different right now.

BladeRun
06-13-2014, 08:52 AM
Bosh's choice was to be a 20/10 guy and go no where, or drop his stats, do the dirty work and play next to other stars to get rings. He chose the second option there and knew going it what it was going to mean to his numbers (per his recent interview with ESPN.) In his words:


"Nobody cared," Bosh says. "Even when I lived in the paint. I put up 24 and 10 in Toronto and lost and people complained. I put up 18 and 8 here and win and people still complain."

1. Bosh is the 3rd scoring option & there's only so many possessions to be had. Of course his scoring had dropped. How many 3rd option scorers are averaging what he does?
2. Bosh is a night and day better defender now than he was in Toronto
3. His mid-range and now 3's are key to spacing the floor. Both the pacer and the spurs have stated that Bosh presents the biggest challenge for them with his deep threat, is the only thing that keeps them from just clogging the lane all day.

You want the real truth? Right here:


"20 and 10, 20 and 10," Bosh says. "People make a big deal about it and nothing happens. They talk about all the 20-and-10 guys, and I say this with all due respect, but when it's time to play for a championship, they'll forget about you."

Now Bosh cares about two different numbers.

"Efficiency and plus-minus," he says. "Everything else, I don't care."

It shows in the data. Bosh posted a career best in shot efficiency this season, registering a 55.5 percent effective field goal percentage, which incorporates the extra value of the 3-pointer. His true shooting percentage, which adds free throws into the mix, was also a career high this season, topping his previous best in Toronto in 2009-10. He has never been more efficient.

And his plus-minus? Consider this: The Heat outscored opponents by 9.8 points every 100 possessions when Bosh was on the floor. When he hit the bench, the scoreboard went the other way; the Heat were outscored by 0.4 points. That 10.2-point net differential was the largest of any Heat regular, according to NBA.com data.

Edit: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11046586/reinvention-chris-bosh

cashinout
06-13-2014, 08:53 AM
On a SRS note, think about this for a second. If Lebron had stayed with Cleveland, and brought over a FA in 2011 like some had hoped.......the Cavs would probably have 2 rings anyway. The teams those Cavs had to face were tougher than the Miami opponents, and the Cavs looked more dominant. I don't think Lebron goes full potato in 2011 on the Cavs, and I don't think the 2012 Thunder beat them.

What good is Wade/Bosh if they are utilized at a star level. Lebron would have been better off tweeking the Cav roster. His whole legacy would be different right now.
thats a different argument
this thread is about bosh somehow being negatively affected by joining the heat/lebron
even though he's been a champion 2 times, which is not as easy to do as you seem to to think it is

if bosh stayed in toronto, he would have been getting kicked out of the post season every year, if they even made it to the post season

as if somehow miami not winning 3 in a row completely discredits the last 2 they won

TooOld4thisSHIT
06-13-2014, 08:54 AM
I see bosh leaving for more money real soon. He has rings he doesnt need to leave a legacy in the NBA. Maybe he goes to OKC

Interesting..

But he's coming to Indy phaggots with KD.

samir316
06-13-2014, 08:57 AM
2 championships (soon to be 3) isn't enough
you're so right

smh Every LebWrong thread this guy shows up. Negged.

cashinout
06-13-2014, 08:59 AM
Every LebWrong thread this guy shows up. Negged.

Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Spill512
06-13-2014, 09:00 AM
Melo will come to Miami, end up only averaging 16ppg because he'll never have the ball and Lebron stans will say he still doesn't have enough help.

BladeRun
06-13-2014, 09:01 AM
I see bosh leaving for more money real soon. He has rings he doesnt need to leave a legacy in the NBA. Maybe he goes to OKC

You know bosh said publicly that he would take a pay cut to stay in Miami a few weeks back, right?

4567081110
06-13-2014, 09:02 AM
Oh I don't disagree with you on this. That's why I thought those Cleveland teams were perfect for Lebron. They didn't have star power, but the were 60-win teams built around Lebron's style of play.

It's a catch-22. If you surround him with shooters, then they say he doesn't have help. But if you put stars next to him, they become under-utlized and they still say he doesn't have help.

All he needed to become a real threat to win lots of titles in Cleveland was a solid second option. The Miami Heat have done him well and filled that void, yet people still complain.

This year's Miami Heat isn't nearly as good, but he got what he wanted and his luck just ran dry. If he hadn't put up a stinker in 2011 it wouldn't have mattered anyways.

I don't hate him and for the most part have enjoyed watching him dominate the game, but he deserves the blame as much as anyone else for losing these finals. He is supposed to be the leader and he can't even get them to play hard in a must win game.

TaeBoNinja
06-13-2014, 09:10 AM
Bosh's choice was to be a 20/10 guy and go no where, or drop his stats, do the dirty work and play next to other stars to get rings. He chose the second option there and knew going it what it was going to mean to his numbers (per his recent interview with ESPN.) In his words:

This isn't about Bosh's numbers, but more about how he's used. Pau Gasol was 2nd option to a 30 ppg scorer, yet his production stayed the same because the Lakers chose to utilized him.

Lebron has turned Bosh into a spotup shooter. He's no longer creating shots for himself, or having any part of the offense ran through him. He's also consistently out of the paint which is death for a bigman.

When people say a player "makes others better", they're speaking to this dynamic. Lebron does nothing to make Bosh better on the floor, he instead takes away from what made Bosh great in Toronto.

thats a different argument
this thread is about bosh somehow being negatively affected by joining the heat/lebron
even though he's been a champion 2 times, which is not as easy to do as you seem to to think it is

if bosh stayed in toronto, he would have been getting kicked out of the post season every year, if they even made it to the post season

as if somehow miami not winning 3 in a row completely discredits the last 2 they won
Bosh's game has definitely been hurt. Bosh's legacy has definitely been hurt.

Sure, he has 2 rings now, but no one looks at his contributions as being on the scale of other stars who won rings. There' s VAST gulf between how Bosh's 2 rings are viewed versus Pau's. And in terms of Miami, his under-utilization will prevent them from a 3rd ring.

When people say Lebron has no help....they should say Lebron isn't using his help correctly.

RoxasBrah
06-13-2014, 09:10 AM
These are the same phaggots who say KD doesn't amp up his his team so he isn't alpha. Then call Westbrook better than him because of it.

JetLife21
06-13-2014, 09:10 AM
Whatever they're doing with Bosh, it's OBVIOUSLY worked.

4 Straighit NBA Finals with 2 rings to show for it=success.

And, sure they drag him out on offense, but is he just never around a rebound on defense? 6'11 and averaging under 7 rebs?

If I'm him, I'd want to be a legit 2nd option. And if Wade's demise proves to be happening RIGHT NOW, then he may have that in Miami. But, I'd certainly want to see what else is out there situation wise if I'm him.

But it should have worked better. The big 3 themselves were saying not 1, not 2, nor 3 all the way to 7. Instead, they are going to only have two titles in 4 years and they won one of those titles by the skin of their teeth. This is also during a span where the entire Eastern conference has been devastated by injuries.

How can any one say that only 2 titles in 4 years is not a disappointment?

jross2021
06-13-2014, 09:13 AM
But it should have worked better. The big 3 themselves were saying not 1, not 2, nor 3 all the way to 7. Instead, they are going to only have two titles in 4 years and they won one of those titles by the skin of their teeth. This is also during a span where the entire Eastern conference has been devastated by injuries.

How can any one say that only 2 titles in 4 years is not a disappointment?

This. 3 superstars join together and everyone says they won't lose for another 5 years. Then they come out here and fall apart, get **** on, win 1 in a shortened season and 1 via Jesus.

Hoop_Dreams
06-13-2014, 09:15 AM
Turn a 20/10 guy into Channing Frye brahs

TaeBoNinja
06-13-2014, 11:05 AM
Turn a 20/10 guy into Channing Frye brahs
And this really isn't even an exaggeration. it's pretty spot on.

FGCHENG
06-13-2014, 11:12 AM
true, if bosh played like raptor bosh then gg

But he can't because he's the 3rd option on this team. If Lebron was truly unselfish, he would let Bosh dominate from time to time, but he cares too much about his individual stats than getting his teammates involved.



Bosh still got it, but in order for him to be great, he needs MORE TOUCHES. Would be happy as fuk if Bosh went to the Lakers.



a7wxWOGUq6g

isp
06-13-2014, 11:24 AM
But it should have worked better. The big 3 themselves were saying not 1, not 2, nor 3 all the way to 7. Instead, they are going to only have two titles in 4 years and they won one of those titles by the skin of their teeth. This is also during a span where the entire Eastern conference has been devastated by injuries.

How can any one say that only 2 titles in 4 years is not a disappointment?

das it mane

jsmoor09
06-13-2014, 11:35 AM
Please tell me how he is supposed to have more rebounds while blitzing the Pick and Roll at the top of the key every game?

Admittedly, I don't watch the Heat every game, and I certainly don't analyze their play outside of major games/playoffs.

But how many other PF's are involved in the pick and roll game and manage to have better than 6.6 Rebounds per game?

denny2008
06-13-2014, 12:18 PM
There was an article on The Score that I'm too lazy to find that basically laid it out pretty well. It's not the Big 3. They're not a legit Big 3 with Lebron's playstyle. It's the Big 1 with 2 more than above average role players.

If you look back at the real 3 star teams you can see that they adapted to eachother's play styles to emphasize each other's strengths and mask each other's weaknesses. Rodman would try NOT to score. Jordan would let Pippen do the majority of the ball handling. Pippen would let MJ do the majority of the scoring. Magic would facilitate the offence. If they needed to dump it down low, they had Kareem. If they needed slashing or shooting they had Cooper and later Worthy. Same with the Spurs 3.

Lebron has 1 way of playing. He can't play any way else. He doesn't adapt and improve his jump shot to allow Bosh to operate down low. He doesn't play well off the ball to allow Wade to run the offence. So it actually shows how good a player he is that he's basically stunted the play of 2 superstars and relegated them to mere role players, and was still able to make 4 Finals appearances.

Dano85
06-13-2014, 12:19 PM
All he needed to become a real threat to win lots of titles in Cleveland was a solid second option. The Miami Heat have done him well and filled that void, yet people still complain.

This year's Miami Heat isn't nearly as good, but he got what he wanted and his luck just ran dry. If he hadn't put up a stinker in 2011 it wouldn't have mattered anyways.

I don't hate him and for the most part have enjoyed watching him dominate the game, but he deserves the blame as much as anyone else for losing these finals. He is supposed to be the leader and he can't even get them to play hard in a must win game.

I think this is exactly OPs point, you say the team isnt as good - he is saying the team is being under utilized and is better than their performances show because they have to play in a system built for and around lebron...

tential
06-13-2014, 12:21 PM
Will gladly take him.

Westbrook
Jackson
Durant
Ibaka
Bosh

So Bosh doesn't get the ball enough in Miami, yet he's supposed to get it from Chuckbrook and Potato Durant? Lol the misc is hilarious ya'll are funny as shiit.

Dano85
06-13-2014, 12:22 PM
There was an article on The Score that I'm too lazy to find that basically laid it out pretty well. It's not the Big 3. They're not a legit Big 3 with Lebron's playstyle. It's the Big 1 with 2 more than above average role players.

If you look back at the real 3 star teams you can see that they adapted to eachother's play styles to emphasize each other's strengths and mask each other's weaknesses. Rodman would try NOT to score. Jordan would let Pippen do the majority of the ball handling. Pippen would let MJ do the majority of the scoring. Magic would facilitate the offence. If they needed to dump it down low, they had Kareem. If they needed slashing or shooting they had Cooper and later Worthy. Same with the Spurs 3.

Lebron has 1 way of playing. He can't play any way else. He doesn't adapt and improve his jump shot to allow Bosh to operate down low. He doesn't play well off the ball to allow Wade to run the offence. So it actually shows how good a player he is that he's basically stunted the play of 2 superstars and relegated them to mere role players, and was still able to make 4 Finals appearances.

I think JVG said last night... he said the 2 best teams in the league are not playing each other in the finals and that there is likely multiple teams in the west that would have been favored over the heat...

dmoneythegoat
06-13-2014, 12:25 PM
Admittedly, I don't watch the Heat every game, and I certainly don't analyze their play outside of major games/playoffs.

But how many other PF's are involved in the pick and roll game and manage to have better than 6.6 Rebounds per game?but not every team plays the pick n roll the same way the heat do. The heat like to blitz and hedge hard as hell on PnR's. Most teams don't

Marronis
06-13-2014, 12:26 PM
Lol ok yea LeBron doesn't have assists he just has points, yea right. mhmm Kobe on the other hand assists soo hard and doesn't ballhog. (not srs)

Lebron is a facilitator and makes everyone around him better unlike most superstars (i.e. kobe and melo) this has been proven many times by professional analyst and not some neckbeard phaggot on the misc.

ShweezyBTFO
06-13-2014, 12:46 PM
I think JVG said last night... he said the 2 best teams in the league are not playing each other in the finals and that there is likely multiple teams in the west that would have been favored over the heat...

Uh no. Spurs are hands down the best team in the west and still opened up as very slight (-135) favorites. Miami would wipe the floor with any other team not named Memphis.

jross2021
06-13-2014, 12:51 PM
So Bosh doesn't get the ball enough in Miami, yet he's supposed to get it from Chuckbrook and Potato Durant? Lol the misc is hilarious ya'll are funny as shiit.

He wouldn't have to sit at the 3 point line. He could contribute in other ways.

Dano85
06-13-2014, 12:54 PM
Uh no. Spurs are hands down the best team in the west and still opened up as very slight (-135) favorites. Miami would wipe the floor with any other team not named Memphis.

spurs and memphis count as multiple - like i said though it was just something JVG said yesterday

TaeBoNinja
06-13-2014, 12:58 PM
Lol ok yea LeBron doesn't have assists he just has points, yea right. mhmm Kobe on the other hand assists soo hard and doesn't ballhog. (not srs)

Lebron is a facilitator and makes everyone around him better unlike most superstars (i.e. kobe and melo) this has been proven many times by professional analyst and not some neckbeard phaggot on the misc.
WHO has Lebron made better??? The only type of players who thrives next to Lebron are spot up shooters. And his assists are more of a function of always having the ball in his hands. He's not creating great opportunities like a Magic, Bird, or Nash.

denny2008
06-13-2014, 01:00 PM
Lol ok yea LeBron doesn't have assists he just has points, yea right. mhmm Kobe on the other hand assists soo hard and doesn't ballhog. (not srs)

Lebron is a facilitator and makes everyone around him better unlike most superstars (i.e. kobe and melo) this has been proven many times by professional analyst and not some neckbeard phaggot on the misc.

uwot? Assists =/= making your team better. When you handle the ball 99% of the time and get double teamed, if you DON'T have 7 dimes a game you're potato. He doesn't make players better. He makes spot-up shooters open

Rebounds45
06-13-2014, 01:03 PM
Lol ok yea LeBron doesn't have assists he just has points, yea right. mhmm Kobe on the other hand assists soo hard and doesn't ballhog. (not srs)

Lebron is a facilitator and makes everyone around him better unlike most superstars (i.e. kobe and melo) this has been proven many times by professional analyst and not some neckbeard phaggot on the misc.

Then he should play the pippen role and let bosh or wade dominate. Or he needs to score and dominate. He cant be just racking up stats.

arya24
06-13-2014, 01:14 PM
lol ok yea lebron doesn't have assists he just has points, yea right. Mhmm kobe on the other hand assists soo hard and doesn't ballhog. (not srs)

lebron is a facilitator and makes everyone around him better unlike most superstars (i.e. Kobe and melo) this has been proven many times by professional analyst and not some neckbeard phaggot on the misc.

lmao

TaeBoNinja
06-16-2014, 09:03 AM
Chris Bosh would be well served to leave Miami. Kinda would be surprised if Chicago didn't make a run at him because he's an upgrade from Boozer.

Alwaysprolol
06-16-2014, 09:37 AM
bosh to the kings. cousins at center, bosh at pf. well trade gay for parsons too. thanks

isp
06-16-2014, 09:37 AM
Miami would wipe the floor with any other team not named Memphis.

Seriously?

sknot1454
06-16-2014, 09:42 AM
This thread is awful.

FitnessCPA
06-16-2014, 09:53 AM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PvdmmV7tl60/Td0nubmb99I/AAAAAAAAAVA/2JaZ7gloaLo/s1600/bostrich.jpg

rjones416
06-16-2014, 10:08 AM
its time to make wade the 4th option and make bosh the second option. wade is done and lol at how he still always sits besides lebron during pressers.

JetLife21
06-16-2014, 10:08 AM
This thread is awful.

as is your posting history

TaeBoNinja
06-16-2014, 10:11 AM
its time to make wade the 4th option and make bosh the second option. wade is done and lol at how he still always sits besides lebron during pressers.
Wade should get the Manu role as 6th man. Would save his energy, and allow him to handle the rock without Lebron hogging it.

Wu-Massacre
06-16-2014, 10:14 AM
Chris Bosh was dope to watch back in Toronto but when he joined Miami it was clear his numbers were gonna suffer the most out of the 3. Stats wise Miami was probably the worst choice to go for Bosh.

Shortstop36
06-16-2014, 10:20 AM
The problem is that there is only 1 ball, and bosh realized that he had to adapt in order to score and help the team. = Jumpshooting



i stink he still has a 20-10 in him on the right team

dsync
06-16-2014, 10:20 AM
Uh no. Spurs are hands down the best team in the west and still opened up as very slight (-135) favorites. Miami would wipe the floor with any other team not named Memphis.

I think the Clippers would have a legit shot at beating Miami based on matchups/Doc.

IAmTheOne1
06-16-2014, 10:21 AM
2 championships (soon to be 3) isn't enough
you're so right
smh Excellent prediction
http://i58.tinypic.com/28s268x.jpg

ocill88
06-16-2014, 10:45 AM
I think the Clippers would have a legit shot at beating Miami based on matchups/Doc.

Christopher/Griffin would destroy the heat . Clippers> heat, okc <heat das it mane