PDA

View Full Version : Seattle minimum wage increase



Capt_Lou
06-03-2014, 07:19 PM
I'm surprised that this was not brought up yet.

Someone a lot smarter than me in economics please explain how this will not hurt the middle class.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/03/opinion/clark-seattle-wage/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Brackneyc
06-03-2014, 07:24 PM
I'm surprised that this was not brought up yet.

Someone a lot smarter than me in economics please explain how this will hurt the middle class.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/03/opinion/clark-seattle-wage/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

I'm not that smart, but if the nation were to adopt this wage scale, everything would raise in price accordingly, negating the raise. Bad move imo.

Capt_Lou
06-03-2014, 07:29 PM
I'm not that smart, but if the nation were to adopt this wage scale, everything would raise in price accordingly, negating the raise. Bad move imo.

Sorry I meant to say not hurt the middle class.

I agree that is a bad move all the way around. The middle class will now have to pay increased prices for goods, while not receiving increased compensation to offset those goods.

cowboybiker
06-03-2014, 07:30 PM
http://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/10389674_657333567715641_6570114625391582504_n.png


And yet, they want a raise. :rolleyes:

so-tex
06-03-2014, 07:32 PM
I'm not that smart, but if the nation were to adopt this wage scale, everything would raise in price accordingly, negating the raise. Bad move imo.I agree. Raising the minimum is just a way to collect more tax money, Nationally via the FICA, and probably benefits the State income tax for Washington.
http://blogs.seattletimes.com/politicsnorthwest/2013/08/28/study-washington-state-has-one-of-highest-sales-tax-in-country/

latebloomingmom
06-03-2014, 07:33 PM
well if it were say mcdonalds...wage goes up and aint nobody gonna get 40 hours a week

Capt_Lou
06-03-2014, 07:35 PM
Lets look beyond fast food.

Every min wage job, from manufacturing, shipping, receiving, retail will incur a hit on this. All of those increases will be offset on the consumer.

Brackneyc
06-03-2014, 07:40 PM
Sorry I meant to say not hurt the middle class.

I agree that is a bad move all the way around. The middle class will now have to pay increased prices for goods, while not receiving increased compensation to offset those goods.


I sort of figured, but there are many who do not see the issue with it. I was paying 2x minimum wage to my employees 15-20 years ago. No way in hell I am paying 15.00 per hour. I just won't hire as many, and I will do more of the work myself.

Fact: Businesses ALWAYS find a way to make a profit...or they cease to be businesses.

Phattso
06-03-2014, 07:41 PM
Raising the minimum wage up that much will create more unemployment. Younger kids who work for summers to save money for college will be replaced by retired people. Hours will be slashed per employee.

ntrllftr
06-03-2014, 07:45 PM
I think that small businesses are the ones who will be hurt the most and the ones who work there. What I believe will happen is that they will let people go and have others do twice the work. It will only drive the unemployment percentage up. Middle class as we know it will only become more extinct. All speculation on my part though. We will see.

cowboybiker
06-03-2014, 07:47 PM
Instead of raising the minimum wage, lower the prices so people can afford to live on what they make.

Cowboybiker for president.

I'll be looking forward to your votes.

I'll start with fuel costs.

SP1966
06-03-2014, 08:29 PM
Lets see, first we raise the minimum wage causing employers to employ fewer people and making the break even point on automation far more attractive. Gee, what should we do next? I know, how about if we take the 11+ million people who are here illegally and rather than send them home we grant them legal status so that they can compete for the few remaining jobs!! Yep, they're really looking out for the little guy!! At some point all the liberals are going to have to fall back on will be the disingenuous promise of government jobs for all!

pharmamarketer
06-03-2014, 08:44 PM
C'mon MegaMillions

crupiea
06-03-2014, 10:25 PM
Everytime a politician pushes something you have to look at the reason why.

There areonly reasons.

1- votes

2- tax money

This increase gets them both. Thats why they are all jumping on the gravy train.

As long as there are entry level workers then they have a free pool of votes.

Same way the soviets used to give you free booze on election day.

Screw the businessman paying the extra wages. There arent enough of them to influence any elections so might as well rape their bank accounts one way or the other.

Thats how politicians think.

Fishman15
06-03-2014, 10:36 PM
This is politics in Seattle. Cut off your nose to spite your face...

So what happens when a good portion of these new minimum wage geniuses are now let go by the employers who are suppose to pay them this new wage? What next, hmmmm...

so-tex
06-03-2014, 10:40 PM
This is politics in Seattle. Cut off your nose to spite your face...

So what happens when a good portion of these new minimum wage geniuses are now let go by the employers who are suppose to pay them this new wage? What next, hmmmm...I would say the majority will file for unemployment with our tax dollars footing the bill. Funny how the system works ain't it. ;)

beachguy498
06-04-2014, 04:42 AM
well if it were say mcdonalds...wage goes up and aint nobody gonna get 40 hours a week

In fast-food services at least in NY, they are lucky to be getting a maximum of 30 hours a week. They all watch the bottom line like a hawk and heaven forbid someone wants a benefit package.

Rob

beachguy498
06-04-2014, 04:56 AM
This is an interesting link. Of 75.9 million hourly-paid workers in the US in 2013, only 4.3% were at or below minimum wage. I had thought it was less, which it may be when you take salaried workers into consideration.

The fast food industry is probably the most visible to all of us, but overall 2.83% of this group were working in service occupations, mainly in food preparation. Which includes much of what we never really see like farming and commercial food packaging.

It does seem that this seemingly small minority has got everyone's bowels in an uproar though.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2013.pdf

Spoolme
06-04-2014, 05:11 AM
This is the first time the minimum wage has ever been raised.... LOL

The wage in Seattle hasn't been raised, it's just finally catching up. Some of you kids should do the math, we used to make way more in the 80's if you adjust for inflation.

Stop watching Fox News and wake up!

Capt_Lou
06-04-2014, 05:22 AM
This is the first time the minimum wage has ever been raised.... LOL

The wage in Seattle hasn't been raised, it's just finally catching up. Some of you kids should do the math, we used to make way more in the 80's if you adjust for inflation.

Stop watching Fox News and wake up!

Really? the first time?
http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/state-minimum-wage-chart.aspx

Maybe you should get your facts straight. There has been increases to adjust for inflation.

Ok now that has been said. What about welfare? I think this will spiral to affect what the minimum standards are. Say at the now you can make up to 16000. Now with the min wage increases to 15 hour you have the potential to make 31200 a year. If they raise the welfare standards to match. those that were not on welfare before now rate it.

Pay me now so we can all pay later.

latebloomingmom
06-04-2014, 05:31 AM
its interesting to me that the people who are not making minimum wage always wanna know how its gonna affect them..
let me see now..
cost of that burger gonna go up at drive thru so you aint gonna be so happy with that happy meal
girl that cuts your hair or at least the one sweeping up hair clippings got a pay increase so up goes your hair cut price
guy that ya hired last summer to mow your lawn and trim the trees is gonna want more money this summer
pay the peops at home depot more..up goes cost of paint and brushes
up goes cost of getting that dining room or deck painted now
to get your house ready to put on market
up goes your asking price and you try unloading that house on the housing market and watch it sit
your college aged kids home for summer gonna have trouble finding a job but if they do they wont get very many hours
so they gonna be sleeping on your couch more and you will be feeding them
all the peops that work at walmart and your grocery store will be paid more so up goes that cost of groceries
same holds true for gas station..and the best buy ..
those appliances ..you know the ones I mean ( with plastic parts) not the ones that are made of steel and still working out in grandma and grandpa's garage..gonna go up in price
the nice young man that changes oil in your car gets paid more..the young peops just starting out in factories jobs get paid more..
cost of that new car you supposed to buy every five years just went up

most minimum wagers get offered some kind of health care package..sh*t even mcd's offers it their employees but very few can afford to pay for it ...
make too much to qualify for medicaid and not enough to pay for blue cross and blue shield
so its obama care or nothing
and of course the poverty level cut off level for welfare will be adjusted

the biggest growing minority group in this country is growing by 'leaps and bounds'
so frankly I think this is going to happen all over...raise the minimum wage
and then legalize them ...

beachguy498
06-04-2014, 06:05 AM
its interesting to me that the people who are not making minimum wage always wanna know how its gonna affect them..
let me see now..
cost of that burger gonna go up at drive thru so you aint gonna be so happy with that happy meal
girl that cuts your hair or at least the one sweeping up hair clippings got a pay increase so up goes your hair cut price
guy that ya hired last summer to mow your lawn and trim the trees is gonna want more money this summer
your college aged kids home for summer gonna have trouble finding a job but if they do they wont get very many hours
so they gonna be sleeping on your couch more and you will be feeding them
all the peops that work at walmart and your grocery store will be paid more so up goes that cost of groceries
same holds true for gas station..and the best buy ..


most minimum wagers get offered some kind of health care package..sh*t even mcd's offers it their employees but very few can afford to pay for it ...
make too much to qualify for medicaid and not enough to pay for blue cross and blue shield
so its obama care or nothing
and of course the poverty level cut off level for welfare will be adjusted

the biggest growing minority group in this country is growing by 'leaps and bounds'
so frankly I think this is going to happen all over...raise the minimum wage
and then legalize them ...

For decades, the bottom rung of the work force was kids working part time while in HS or college and a big part of the service industry was the same kids having summer jobs. Homemakers also made up a big part of it and they were happy to be contributing money to the household.

I don't think anyone ever purposely made a career choice to raise 3 kids and carry a mortgage based on a $7/ hour job. Over the past couple of decades the better jobs that were around either went offshore or became automated.

Rob

latebloomingmom
06-04-2014, 06:13 AM
For decades, the bottom rung of the work force was kids working part time while in HS or college and a big part of the service industry was the same kids having summer jobs. Homemakers also made up a big part of it and they were happy to be contributing money to the household.

I don't think anyone ever purposely made a career choice to raise 3 kids and carry a mortgage based on a $7/ hour job. Over the past couple of decades the better jobs that were around either went offshore or became automated.

Robno life has a way of happening :)
especially with young couples just starting out..
tell themselves they will keep that job they had in high school for now
til something better comes along or they get promoted ( does this even happen anymore..work your way up)
but then the wedding bells ring or they just shack up and the babies start coming along
diapers aint cheap..
hard to quit that job to go to school when ya got mouths to feed

beachguy498
06-04-2014, 06:18 AM
no life has a way of happening :)
especially with young couples just starting out..
tell themselves they will keep that job they had in high school for now
til something better comes along or they get promoted ( does this even happen anymore..work your way up)
but then the wedding bells ring or they just shack up and the babies start coming along
diapers aint cheap..
hard to quit that job to go to school when ya got mouths to feed

I'm fortunate to have always been a hustler when it came to providing for my family over the years. I did whatever it took to keep us afloat and we had to go through some very lean times when the kids were small. Not everyone has had the opportunities that were presented to me and I've always been able to create my own luck when I had to. Not everyone has been as fortunate as I have been.

Capt_Lou
06-04-2014, 06:18 AM
no life has a way of happening :)
especially with young couples just starting out..
tell themselves they will keep that job they had in high school for now
til something better comes along or they get promoted ( does this even happen anymore..work your way up)
but then the wedding bells ring or they just shack up and the babies start coming along
diapers aint cheap..
hard to quit that job to go to school when ya got mouths to feed

1997, just got out of the military, had no skills. 6 year old at home.

Worked a full time job making about 9 dollars a hour, 5:00 hit, drove 25 miles and went to school from 6 to 10. Rinse repeat for almost 4 years. Got my degree.
Excuses are just excuses for not working hard.

latebloomingmom
06-04-2014, 06:21 AM
1997, just got out of the military, had no skills. 6 year old at home.

Worked a full time job making about 9 dollars a hour, 5:00 hit, drove 25 miles and went to school from 6 to 10. Rinse repeat for almost 4 years. Got my degree.
Excuses are just excuses for not working hard.
did you pay to go to school or do it on GI bill?

I am not disagreeing..if you want it bad enough then cot dammit find a way
that is what this mama tells her sons :)

though not sure if a four year degree helps a whole lot anymore..
maybe a trade is the way to go

Capt_Lou
06-04-2014, 06:26 AM
did you pay to go to school or do it on GI bill?

I am not disagreeing..if you want it bad enough then cot dammit find a way
that is what this mama tells her sons :)

though not sure if a four year degree helps a whole lot anymore..
maybe a trade is the way to go

GI bill paid a very small portion of my education. I had to take out student loans, which were deferred until after I finished school.

I think for any corporate america job you need some sort of degree, you might not use anything you learned in that degree, but it shows that you finish what you start. I also like to see on a resume what the GPA was. Did you commit or just do enough to squeak by?

beachguy498
06-04-2014, 06:39 AM
1997, just got out of the military, had no skills. 6 year old at home.

Worked a full time job making about 9 dollars a hour, 5:00 hit, drove 25 miles and went to school from 6 to 10. Rinse repeat for almost 4 years. Got my degree.
Excuses are just excuses for not working hard.

That's key, keeping your eye on the prize and never letting up until it's yours. I had a 2-year degree from 1976. Took a tool and die apprenticeship from 1981-1985, from there back to school. Took some time off inbetween (I was burnt to a crisp for a while) but got my 2nd 2-year degree in 1996 and finally my BS in 2006. My company had a tuition reimbursement program so I had little out of pocket expenses. And it paid off well since the company kept track of what I was doing and moved me around to bigger and bettter positions. One of my traits is that I can be quite stubborn and I don't tend to throw in the towel too quickly.

Rob

TubbyDad
06-04-2014, 06:40 AM
though not sure if a four year degree helps a whole lot anymore..
maybe a trade is the way to go

It does, assuming you get a relevant degree. I took a civil service position 5 years ago. Before that I had various jobs in kitchens, landscaping, and I was a diesel mechanic on farms for a few years. Nothing that required an advanced education. When I was 18 I did one year of college then dropped out.

Anyways, my wife told me about this test coming up, open to the general public. If I got a good enough score I could get a state job. Sweet. The test was "data entry machine operator." I had to type 35 words per minute, I just passed using one finger at a time at 36 words per minute. I got a good score and was hired as a data entry clerk. From that point on, my plan was to take promotional tests and whatever I did good at, go to school for so I could go even further.

The opportunity came to take a promotional test as an InformationTechnology Assistant (entry level in the IT ladder). I did really well and got a promotion as a help desk agent. I then knew what I would be getting a degree in, so I started taking 12-16 credits per semester (summers included), while working full time and starting a family. I had one semester left when I got an interview for my current job as a java developer (under the assumption I would be graduating, which I did). I now make more than double what I made 5 years ago. But I couldn't have done that with an art or philosophy degree.

Anyways as for Seattle, basic economics tells us that everything will get more expensive and/or there will be fewer jobs. I won't say that is inevitable, because economic theory exists on a vacuum while economic practice has far more variables. I'm actually really interested to see how this pans out in a real world setting, since there has been so much debate over the years.

azeeb
06-04-2014, 06:50 AM
GI bill paid a very small portion of my education. I had to take out student loans, which were deferred until after I finished school.

I think for any corporate america job you need some sort of degree, you might not use anything you learned in that degree, but it shows that you finish what you start. I also like to see on a resume what the GPA was. Did you commit or just do enough to squeak by?

True, but the cost of college is about 3-4 times what what it was in 1997. Student loan interest rates are also a lot higher then they used to be. I'm not sure the payoff is there anymore outside of a few select degrees. Going 100k in debt at 6% interest rate for an english degree is a bad idea even if that is the only way to get a generic corporate job.

latebloomingmom
06-04-2014, 07:15 AM
well that is the problem ( sorry if we are getting off track)
it is kind of hard to tell the kids now what kind of degree they can get a job in

beachguy498
06-04-2014, 07:22 AM
well that is the problem ( sorry if we are getting off track) it is kind of hard to tell the kids now what kind of degree they can get a job in

I always told my kids, work in a field that never goes out of style. Sick people, bad and dead people are something that will always be around. But did they listen? of course not. I suggested x-ray tech or something like that. Anyone I know in that field is doing well.

My son had a 4-year liberal arts degree so jobs aren't falling into his lap, he's working in a bar/restaurant right now, assuredly at minimum wage at best with tips. I see the trades making a comeback as a career choice. Electrician, plumber, steam fitter, etc. My other son who is almost 22, he's been working in machine shops the past 2 years and he likes it, one of those jobs where you have to pay your dues and he knows that.

TubbyDad
06-04-2014, 07:24 AM
well that is the problem ( sorry if we are getting off track)
it is kind of hard to tell the kids now what kind of degree they can get a job in

STEM isn't going anywhere.

ajdahlheimer
06-04-2014, 07:26 AM
well that is the problem ( sorry if we are getting off track)
it is kind of hard to tell the kids now what kind of degree they can get a job in

It might be a difficult conversation, but I think parents really do their kids an injustice by not aiding/directing them in the decision. Like a previous poster said, if you are gonna let your kid go 100k in debt for an English degree (or another broad degree like psychology, communication, political science, etc)--you are really setting your kid up for a tough go and potential failure.

My philosophy has always been to encourage your kid to get a degree that actually gives them a tangible skill. Accounting--accountant. Nursing--nurse. Computer science--programmer or systems analyst. Etc. Too many broad degrees out there today where the person doesn't know how to do anything upon graduation. You aren't gonna get a good job if you don't know how to do anything. Further, how does one pay off all the student loans when he/she can't get a good job? Therein lies the problem.

latebloomingmom
06-04-2014, 07:34 AM
mmhmmm my cousin spent thousands of dollars sending his daughter to a private liberal arts school..she graduated with a degree in art and now lives back home with mama and daddy

my son tried community college for awhile and then transferred to a four year college and hated it..could not find a major that was a good fit for him so he ended up quitting and going to work full-time.
He is working for a cable company that installs cable for tv and internet and he mentioned the other day..that being an electrician wouldnt be that much harder than what he is doing now and climbing telephone lines does not bother him.

as his mama I just said " I dont know hon..might be something to keep in mind then down the road and find out about"
I know my boy and if you push him he will balk..has to be his own idea and in his own time...gently guide him in the way you would like him to go ;)

TubbyDad
06-04-2014, 07:38 AM
mmhmmm my cousin spent thousands of dollars sending his daughter to a private liberal arts school..she graduated with a degree in art and now lives back home with mama and daddy

my son tried community college for awhile and then transferred to a four year college and hated it..could not find a major that was a good fit for him so he ended up quitting and going to work full-time.
He is working for a cable company that installs cable for tv and internet and he mentioned the other day..that being an electrician wouldnt be that much harder than what he is doing now and climbing telephone lines does not bother him.

as his mama I just said " I dont know hon..might be something to keep in mind then down the road and find out about"
I know my boy and if you push him he will balk..has to be his own idea and in his own time...gently guide him in the way you would like him to go ;)

I have a few friends that did the same thing then went into an Electricians apprenticeship program. They love it, have been in the union now for 12 or 13 years.

ajdahlheimer
06-04-2014, 07:42 AM
mmhmmm my cousin spent thousands of dollars sending his daughter to a private liberal arts school..she graduated with a degree in art and now lives back home with mama and daddy

my son tried community college for awhile and then transferred to a four year college and hated it..could not find a major that was a good fit for him so he ended up quitting and going to work full-time.
He is working for a cable company that installs cable for tv and internet and he mentioned the other day..that being an electrician wouldnt be that much harder than what he is doing now and climbing telephone lines does not bother him.

as his mama I just said " I dont know hon..might be something to keep in mind then down the road and find out about"
I know my boy and if you push him he will balk..has to be his own idea and in his own time...gently guide him in the way you would like him to go ;)

Electrician is another trade where you have a tangible skill. 2 year degree and then you become a journeyman. I have a couple buddies who are electricians. Good career once you put your time in a few years. The only catch with that occupation is employment is often dictated by the economy, and more specifically the new housing market. So you can find yourself out of work when it is lagging.

mcbourque
06-04-2014, 08:01 AM
It might be a difficult conversation, but I think parents really do their kids an injustice by not aiding/directing them in the decision. Like a previous poster said, if you are gonna let your kid go 100k in debt for an English degree (or another broad degree like psychology, communication, political science, etc)--you are really setting your kid up for a tough go and potential failure.

My philosophy has always been to encourage your kid to get a degree that actually gives them a tangible skill. Accounting--accountant. Nursing--nurse. Computer science--programmer or systems analyst. Etc. Too many broad degrees out there today where the person doesn't know how to do anything upon graduation. You aren't gonna get a good job if you don't know how to do anything. Further, how does one pay off all the student loans when he/she can't get a good job? Therein lies the problem.

I want a doctor and a lawyer out of my boys. No pressure LOL

beachguy498
06-04-2014, 08:04 AM
mmhmmm my cousin spent thousands of dollars sending his daughter to a private liberal arts school..she graduated with a degree in art and now lives back home with mama and daddy

my son tried community college for awhile and then transferred to a four year college and hated it..could not find a major that was a good fit for him so he ended up quitting and going to work full-time.
He is working for a cable company that installs cable for tv and internet and he mentioned the other day..that being an electrician wouldnt be that much harder than what he is doing now and climbing telephone lines does not bother him.

as his mama I just said " I dont know hon..might be something to keep in mind then down the road and find out about"
I know my boy and if you push him he will balk..has to be his own idea and in his own time...gently guide him in the way you would like him to go ;)

Kids have to figure it out for themselves and we have to be patient with that. Once they get a taste of being out and working, a light bulb may go off in their head and they try to find something better, or use one job as a stepping stone to a better one. Heaven forbid we ever ask them a question. My oldest has a lead on an IT job and I asked him if it was full time... almost got my head bit off.

His girlfriend, with a 4-year art history degree, is now working for a spa in Manhattan as a cosmetologist. She had to get trained and all of her licenses so it was earned. She's doing pretty well though.

Rob

ajdahlheimer
06-04-2014, 08:05 AM
I want a doctor and a lawyer out of my boys. No pressure LOL

I got my undergrad with a gal who was going to go into orthodontia. I ran into her a few years later, and she only had a couple years left of school, but she told me she was so burnt out on it that she didn't even want to go into it any longer. However, she didn't have a choice at that point cuz she was hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt from her undergrad and med school already.

ajdahlheimer
06-04-2014, 08:08 AM
. Once they get a taste of being out and working, a light bulb may go off in their head and they try to find something better, or use one job as a stepping stone to a better one.

Agreed, I have a little brother who is quite a bit younger than me. It blew my mind that a 25 year old dude had no idea how much basic **** costs. Rent, internet bills, cable, electric, etc....

mcbourque
06-04-2014, 08:15 AM
I think regardless of the path they choose, whether working at advanced degrees or go on trade to start building a life for themselves, I think kids should keep the bar high themselves.
It's the people that settle for mediocrity that bugs me.

beachguy498
06-04-2014, 08:51 AM
Agreed, I have a little brother who is quite a bit younger than me. It blew my mind that a 25 year old dude had no idea how much basic **** costs. Rent, internet bills, cable, electric, etc....

My kids too... and I'm awed at how I manage to keep the house going and juggle the bills. I never had a $120 monthly i-phone bill either like my kids do. That's 1/2 way to a car payment. Their jaws would drop if I laid out the monthly expenditures, which they get the benefit from some of it. And we won't talk about student loans either. My oldest has his 5th year of college that he took out a loan for.

Rob

beachguy498
06-04-2014, 08:54 AM
I think regardless of the path they choose, whether working at advanced degrees or go on trade to start building a life for themselves, I think kids should keep the bar high themselves. It's the people that settle for mediocrity that bugs me.

From my wife being in the insurance biz for all these years, lots of people have the husband and wife working and they may earn a combined $70k a year between them. She has told me more than once that we are doing better than most people and I believe it.

I could never just settle when I knew I could do a bit better. And it came a little at a time, I'm no over-night success story.

ajdahlheimer
06-04-2014, 09:01 AM
From my wife being in the insurance biz for all these years,....

Did she ever take out a life insurance policy on herself? (feel free to decline answering, as I am not trying to pry)....

beachguy498
06-04-2014, 09:36 AM
Did she ever take out a life insurance policy on herself? (feel free to decline answering, as I am not trying to pry)....

Of course she does, also one through my job that I forgot about until I ran across the policy recently. I had taken them out on myself, her and the kids. Never expected to be using it so soon though....

ajdahlheimer
06-04-2014, 09:39 AM
Of course she does, also one through my job that I forgot about until I ran across the policy recently. I had taken them out on myself, her and the kids. Never expected to be using it so soon though....

Yeah, I also have them on me, wife, and kids through my job. But we also each have individual separate policies on ourselves that we took out back when we were very young parents starting out w/o much.

sok454
06-05-2014, 01:56 PM
I can attest to the liberal arts degree! Sociology wasn't in high demand that's for sure... but for it has worked well as I have tailored my job and training to what my goals were. I have been fortunate to have good bosses who realized more potential than was on my degree... but for my own children I would direct them to a more tangible skill set like you all have mentioned or a good trade. My father was a navy electrician and then a journeyman. Started out making 3.25 an hour in the 70's. Retired last year along with my mom who was an LPN and people would die if they knew how much they make off of their pensions/ss/retirement. They have lived in the same house for 36+ years and saved all they could. SO they never got caught up with the Jones' etc.

Someone mentioned the medical field. Friend I've known since we were 3 is an ER Dr. and hates it. In fact he tries to keep as few hours as possible. I asked him why did you go become a Dr.?? He said because he felt like everyone "expected" him to be one. It's funny because his wife is a Dr. and he can afford to work limited hours while he power lifts (2000+ lb club) and works on his vineyard he is starting.

Marius_Ursus
06-05-2014, 02:00 PM
It happens every time there's a minimum wage increase. How can it still be a question?

Still, here's what is currently going on with the latest one.

http://chicksontheright.com/posts/item/25956-so-about-that-minimum-wage-hike-how-s-that-working-out-seattle

tomnationwide
06-05-2014, 02:00 PM
People affected by this are people who are behind on bills. In the first 6 months to 1 year of this going into effect bills will be caught up. After the bills are caught up there will be disposable income that will trickle into the economy stimulating growth.

Currently there is no real growth because of this.

bustasinclair
06-05-2014, 02:05 PM
It happens every time there's a minimum wage increase. How can it still be a question?

Still, here's what is currently going on with the latest one.

http://chicksontheright.com/posts/item/25956-so-about-that-minimum-wage-hike-how-s-that-working-out-seattle

LOL @ that source. I'm sure you'd get the opposite report from "Fellas on the Left" magazine. :D :D

Marius_Ursus
06-05-2014, 02:18 PM
LOL @ that source. I'm sure you'd get the opposite report from "Fellas on the Left" magazine. :D :D

Except that this is what has happened with every other wage increase. What makes this time different?

The net result is less disposable income for all.

Cleveland33
06-05-2014, 02:20 PM
don't forget that many union and government job wages' are based on a minimum wage multiplier. That's the real reason anyone's fighting to get it raised.

bustasinclair
06-05-2014, 02:28 PM
Except that this is what has happened with every other wage increase. What makes this time different?

The net result is less disposable income for all.

I hear ya, but what is the solution?

Minimum wage was $3.35/hour when I started working. Should it still be the same??

I don't know anyone who can make a living on $134/week.

FTR, I don't have a solution either. :shrugs:

KeepItMoving
06-05-2014, 03:47 PM
Minimum wage jobs are meant to be entry level, transition jobs for people who are young and working their way up. You are supposed to realize that those jobs cannot sustain a lifestyle or family. Do not get pregnant and have kids while that's the only job you have, you will starve. You must recognize that your decisions have consequences and you are personally responsible for your own actions.

Imagine that. I know, I know..."But what about the.....!!!" Some person will give me the exceptional set of facts that are supposed to justify all of the important lessons of the philosophy espoused in the previous paragraph. Well, even that unique person has to play the hand dealt. Not all of us are going to be rich, comfortable, and set up all the time. Best to be poor and fk'd early in life whilst you learn these lessons.

OR

The politicians can dwindle the number of folks who are independent, self starter individuals. They will then give them drippings from the public trough, a meager existence that destroys their ability and desire to hunt and kill their own food and, as a by product, OWN their vote. Imagine, politicians at the top might actually think like this?!?! Yeah, you bet they do.. They don't TALK like this. It's all hope, help, and compassion, but c'mon...

Finally, when have Socialists/Communists EVER truly wanted a strong middle class? They never have. Learn history if you think I'm wrong here. They want the ruling elite, the uber rich elite that they manipulate the business for, and the rest of the masses. All lining up for the handouts and the promises of a better tomorrow...just follow the government's path they set for you.

thomashenry
06-05-2014, 04:02 PM
If I was a business owner, with say 20 People employed and 5 were @ the Minimum wage scale, and forced by Gov`t Iron fist to increase an employee`s wage by 50 % or higher for no other reason than some Idiot in Gov`t signed on to it, well than I can do one of 2 things I suppose, increase the price of my Products in which case to maintain my own personal property of which I apparently as a Biz owner worked for and hope to hell my customers understand, or perhaps lay off 4 out of the 5 {increasing the unemployment rate} and paying 1 of the remaining the Min wage increasing their workload as well as the others ! either way it is not a good situation for Biz owners IMO


http://youtu.be/ca8Z__o52sk

And Min Wage was 1.35 when I started working after my Paper route

Phattso
06-05-2014, 04:06 PM
People affected by this are people who are behind on bills. In the first 6 months to 1 year of this going into effect bills will be caught up. After the bills are caught up there will be disposable income that will trickle into the economy stimulating growth.

Currently there is no real growth because of this.

The only way that would work is if the same amount of people remained employed. There will be many less employed now.

Nice to think that might work, but in reality, small businesses will reduce their workforce enough so there will be no difference in spending. Sure, some people will benefit, but many will be shunned away from jobs because there won't be any. Instead of five jobs available, there might be two.

thomashenry
06-05-2014, 04:46 PM
People affected by this are people who are behind on bills. In the first 6 months to 1 year of this going into effect bills will be caught up. After the bills are caught up there will be disposable income that will trickle into the economy stimulating growth.

Currently there is no real growth because of this. There is no REAL growth BECAUSE OF THIS ?
I would argue that this is the least of the American Working force`s issues, min Wage, I guess if for a moment if I was in absolute charge as our Imperial President Likes to think he is !

I would install a Flat Tax for All Americans and Limit Deductions, I would keep Charitable and Mortgage Etc , Also Lower Corporate Income Tax to 10 % of Gross Before EBITA,

I would cut the EPA`s Funding by 80% and nullify their ability to legislate of any kind {they have no Constitutional Authority to do so or impose anything on any Business}-----I would not allow whole Industries in the energy sectors to be destroyed or have draconian rules put upon them, until actual VIABLE alternatives Proved useful and were competitive

I would impose a Tariff on all imports from any Nation without a larger than 50 % American Workforce, & who complied with the American Corporate Income Tax

Eliminate altogether the Death Tax

Limit in scope the IRS heavy hand

Make Health Insurance available within the Free Market and allow companies to cross over from State to State, NO GOVT HEALTHCARE FOR ALL

Secure the Borders of the United States, Build a Secure and High Tech Security System

Implement a program to Unleash OUR NATURAL resources With American Companies & Engineering, Oil, Nat Gas, Rare Earth Minerals ETC ETC & cut back on Some acreage in Our National Parks

Bring NASA back into Full Operational Mode

ELIMINATE all Pork Barrel spending, have a line Item Veto

Prosecute and IMPRISON any Corporate Bankers who Prey upon the American Public, and confiscate all their assets

Initiate a Jobs Program with an emphasis towards young People in skilled trades if they maintain a C avg in high school and cannot afford College, along with a tax break to Companies willing to Train in a minimum 2 year program

To help those who are WILLING to help themselves and have fallen on hard times, With assistance and Training in either skilled, high tech or College

Those who have lost their Jobs would also get retraining & new opportunities as above

I would not have or be very Limited with Govt mettleing in Private Business

Would not allow ANY bailouts of Companies, to extort and confiscate tax payer $ for the simple fact of Greed and mismanagement, that should not be put on the backs of American Taxpayers with their Dollars & if they have to go Bankrupt so be it

Eliminate all CAFE standards

Just a few Idea`s

There are a variety of ways to Ignite the American Economy, raising Min Wage is not the answer

Marius_Ursus
06-06-2014, 05:06 AM
I hear ya, but what is the solution?

Minimum wage was $3.35/hour when I started working. Should it still be the same??

I don't know anyone who can make a living on $134/week.

FTR, I don't have a solution either. :shrugs:

Chicago economics, or if your brave Austrian economics. :)

If we used Austrian, *theoretically* minimum wage wouldn't exist, but people would be motivated enough to advance themselves and wouldn't rely on government intervention's thievery to improve their status which is a pittance instead of the great leaps they could make doing for themselves. My own life is an example of this, going from making 95k/year to making 10/hr in a factory, then up to 80k/year...a sort of microcosm of economics with self-adjusting checks, so a natural equilibrium can be established.

The economy is a living thing, and any attempts to control result in the same effect as trying to control people. It just gets more and more out of control. We're better off letting the economy do it's thing, not interfering with it, and adjusting ourselves to it.

A good starting step would be to put us back on some kind of standard currency and get us the hell off fiat currency.

The1973
06-06-2014, 05:47 AM
Lets see, first we raise the minimum wage causing employers to employ fewer people and making the break even point on automation far more attractive. Gee, what should we do next? I know, how about if we take the 11+ million people who are here illegally and rather than send them home we grant them legal status so that they can compete for the few remaining jobs!! Yep, they're really looking out for the little guy!! At some point all the liberals are going to have to fall back on will be the disingenuous promise of government jobs for all!

It's Seattle dummy. I thought conservatives were for local control, or is that for just conservative laws. Go **** yourself *******.

The1973
06-06-2014, 05:51 AM
There is no REAL growth BECAUSE OF THIS ?
I would argue that this is the least of the American Working force`s issues, min Wage, I guess if for a moment if I was in absolute charge as our Imperial President Likes to think he is !

I would install a Flat Tax for All Americans and Limit Deductions, I would keep Charitable and Mortgage Etc , Also Lower Corporate Income Tax to 10 % of Gross Before EBITA,

I would cut the EPA`s Funding by 80% and nullify their ability to legislate of any kind {they have no Constitutional Authority to do so or impose anything on any Business}-----I would not allow whole Industries in the energy sectors to be destroyed or have draconian rules put upon them, until actual VIABLE alternatives Proved useful and were competitive

I would impose a Tariff on all imports from any Nation without a larger than 50 % American Workforce, & who complied with the American Corporate Income Tax

Eliminate altogether the Death Tax

Limit in scope the IRS heavy hand

Make Health Insurance available within the Free Market and allow companies to cross over from State to State, NO GOVT HEALTHCARE FOR ALL

Secure the Borders of the United States, Build a Secure and High Tech Security System

Implement a program to Unleash OUR NATURAL resources With American Companies & Engineering, Oil, Nat Gas, Rare Earth Minerals ETC ETC & cut back on Some acreage in Our National Parks

Bring NASA back into Full Operational Mode

ELIMINATE all Pork Barrel spending, have a line Item Veto

Prosecute and IMPRISON any Corporate Bankers who Prey upon the American Public, and confiscate all their assets

Initiate a Jobs Program with an emphasis towards young People in skilled trades if they maintain a C avg in high school and cannot afford College, along with a tax break to Companies willing to Train in a minimum 2 year program

To help those who are WILLING to help themselves and have fallen on hard times, With assistance and Training in either skilled, high tech or College

Those who have lost their Jobs would also get retraining & new opportunities as above

I would not have or be very Limited with Govt mettleing in Private Business

Would not allow ANY bailouts of Companies, to extort and confiscate tax payer $ for the simple fact of Greed and mismanagement, that should not be put on the backs of American Taxpayers with their Dollars & if they have to go Bankrupt so be it

Eliminate all CAFE standards

Just a few Idea`s

There are a variety of ways to Ignite the American Economy, raising Min Wage is not the answer
Your goals are contradictory idiot. You can't give services if there isn't enough tax to pay for them.

The1973
06-06-2014, 05:53 AM
If I was a business owner, with say 20 People employed and 5 were @ the Minimum wage scale, and forced by Gov`t Iron fist to increase an employee`s wage by 50 % or higher for no other reason than some Idiot in Gov`t signed on to it, well than I can do one of 2 things I suppose, increase the price of my Products in which case to maintain my own personal property of which I apparently as a Biz owner worked for and hope to hell my customers understand, or perhaps lay off 4 out of the 5 {increasing the unemployment rate} and paying 1 of the remaining the Min wage increasing their workload as well as the others ! either way it is not a good situation for Biz owners

And Min Wage was 1.35 when I started working after my Paper route

If you were a business owner you'd go out of business from stupidity.

The1973
06-06-2014, 05:54 AM
Except that this is what has happened with every other wage increase. What makes this time different?

The net result is less disposable income for all.

You are an idiot.