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View Full Version : Released Soldier, would somebody please tell....



Old-Time-Lifter
06-03-2014, 07:25 AM
His ugly ar$e father to cut his hair and shave that scraggly excuse of a beard. Everytime I see a picture of him it just grates on me.

For crying out loud you're on National TV try not to look like they just woke you up in the gutter and they hosed you off and put a clean shirt and pants on ya.

TubbyDad
06-03-2014, 07:45 AM
I think I'll let him do what he wants.

http://washingtonpost.com/business/economy/for-father-of-released-pow-growing-a-beard-and-studying-captors-defined-the-years/2014/06/02/d8de9fcc-ea93-11e3-93d2-edd4be1f5d9e_story.html

Wayne Evans
06-03-2014, 07:46 AM
Maybe the Muslim beard is to show how proud he is of his son.
Based on what I've seen thus far this whole situation is appalling to me.

Awaiting further info which I'm sure will piss me off.

Carry on....

deadwoodgregg
06-03-2014, 08:08 AM
Six servicemen lost their lives while searching for this young man. I'm hoping that the stories of desertion are false.

Old-Time-Lifter
06-03-2014, 08:19 AM
Maybe the Muslim beard is to show how proud he is of his son.
Based on what I've seen thus far this whole situation is appalling to me.

Awaiting further info which I'm sure will piss me off.

Carry on....

qft... and honestly I'd be a lot more tolerant of the beard if this wasn't the case.


Six servicemen lost their lives while searching for this young man. I'm hoping that the stories of desertion are false.

So far they seem to be confirmed by those who served with him.

TubbyDad
06-03-2014, 08:37 AM
qft... and honestly I'd be a lot more tolerant of the beard if this wasn't the case.


Regardless of his son's motives, it's still his son. I'm willing to be tolerant of his beard based on the fact that he is incapable of seeing the situation objectively. It's impossible for me to imagine what I would do if it was my son, but I can say with absolute certainty that I wouldn't care what other people thought of my beard.

frozensparky
06-03-2014, 08:38 AM
Whether his son is a deserter or not I don't think I would judge his father. I could not imagine having a son held captive so I have no way of knowing how I would react or what I would do to change the chances of his survival even minimally. Growing a beard, learning his captors language, even appearing sympathetic to their cause seem like reasonable actions for a man in his situation. How many of us have stated at one time or another that we would do almost anything to protect our children. Maybe he should shave it now but just getting my son back I think there would be more important things for me to do at the moment.

To some people this kid is a deserter who had six servicemen die searching for him, to his father he is his son

Old-Time-Lifter
06-03-2014, 09:16 AM
I'd be more likely to tell the captors to all go to HE## than adopt their ways. In fact I think I'd use my chance at the podium to flip them the bird and encourage the military to crop dust the entire region with pig ashes...

crupiea
06-03-2014, 09:21 AM
If his son is a deserter, and I think he is, he got his anti american ideals planted in his head from someplace.

I wonder where?

No need to over think it as the apple doesnt fall far from the tree.

The sad part is that the military is run by politics and there is no way in hell they can do anything but applaude this guy for his service because to do otherwise would put them in a bad light. They dont want to do it but will have to to appease politicians.

It was that way when I served and is no better today. cant call the enemy the enemy unless the pols and media allow it.

A damned shame.

his isnt the first guy to try this crap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_R._Garwood

Old-Time-Lifter
06-03-2014, 09:30 AM
If his son is a deserter, and I think he is, he got his anti american ideals planted in his head from someplace.

I wonder where?

No need to over think it as the apple doesnt fall far from the tree.

The sad part is that the military is run by politics and there is no way in hell they can do anything but applaude this guy for his service because to do otherwise would put them in a bad light. They dont want to do it but will have to to appease politicians.

It was that way when I served and is no better today. cant call the enemy the enemy unless the pols and media allow it.

A damned shame.

his isnt the first guy to try this crap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_R._Garwood

I think you've nailed it there my friend.

so-tex
06-03-2014, 09:38 AM
If his son is a deserter, and I think he is, he got his anti american ideals planted in his head from someplace.

I wonder where?

No need to over think it as the apple doesnt fall far from the tree.

The sad part is that the military is run by politics and there is no way in hell they can do anything but applaude this guy for his service because to do otherwise would put them in a bad light. They dont want to do it but will have to to appease politicians.

It was that way when I served and is no better today. cant call the enemy the enemy unless the pols and media allow it.

A damned shame.

his isnt the first guy to try this crap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_R._GarwoodI agree.

Phattso
06-03-2014, 09:39 AM
His dad and his family knew he was ashamed to be an american from his anti-american communications.

Wayne Evans
06-03-2014, 09:51 AM
Whether his son is a deserter or not I don't think I would judge his father.

I don't judge his father but given the photo op BS charade yesterday I can see how some (however irrationally) would do so.....not me.

If what we are hearing is truth this soldier did not make a 'terrible mistake' as stated by some pundit this morning on the news.
A mistake is forgetting to fill the air in one's spare tire....or a math error in balancing one's checkbook.
He made a conscious choice to leave his post/perimeter, desert his unit and ultimately getting Brother Soldiers killed in their search.

A coward and a traitor?....hopefully all truth will be revealed but it's not looking good now.
Coming from my personal military experience I could not imagine how I would feel if my son was confirmed a traitor/deserter.
How would any father reconcile that fact about his son?....I don't have a clue.
I also think of what those Soldiers who he'd served with must feel about all this.

Emotionally charged event occurring here.

Carry on....

Jtbny
06-03-2014, 09:55 AM
I don't judge his father but given the photo op BS charade yesterday I can see how some (however irrationally) would do so.....not me.

If what we are hearing is truth this soldier did not make a 'terrible mistake' as stated by some pundit this morning on the news.
A mistake is forgetting to fill the air in one's spare tire....or a math error in balancing one's checkbook.
He made a conscious choice to leave his post/perimeter, desert his unit and ultimately getting Brother Soldiers killed in their search.

A coward and a traitor?....hopefully all truth will be revealed but it's not looking good now.
Coming from my personal military experience I could not imagine how I would feel if my son was confirmed a traitor/deserter.
How would any father reconcile that fact about his son?....I don't have a clue.

Emotionally charged event occurring here.

Carry on....

Bolded for emphasis.

As for judging his father...:rolleyes:

TubbyDad
06-03-2014, 10:03 AM
If his son is a deserter, and I think he is, he got his anti american ideals planted in his head from someplace.

I wonder where?

No need to over think it as the apple doesnt fall far from the tree.

The sad part is that the military is run by politics and there is no way in hell they can do anything but applaude this guy for his service because to do otherwise would put them in a bad light. They dont want to do it but will have to to appease politicians.

It was that way when I served and is no better today. cant call the enemy the enemy unless the pols and media allow it.

A damned shame.

his isnt the first guy to try this crap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_R._Garwood

Based on what we actually know, I would say the father is only guilty of teaching his son to think for himself. There is absolutely nothing that would lead me to believe that the father led his son to be un-American. Your "Apple doesn't fall far from the tree" theory only works of you feel that people lack the ability to make their own choices.

so-tex
06-03-2014, 10:17 AM
Based on what we actually know, I would say the father is only guilty of teaching his son to think for himself. There is absolutely nothing that would lead me to believe that the father led his son to be un-American. Your "Apple doesn't fall far from the tree" theory only works of you feel that people lack the ability to make their own choices.We know very little about the father. How would you know whether he is un-American or not? Judging from his appearance, I would say he his a one brick short of a load.

TubbyDad
06-03-2014, 10:24 AM
We know very little about the father. How would you know whether he is un-American or not? Judging from his appearance, I would say he his a one brick short of a load.

I'm not the one who suggested he was un-American, that was my point.

so-tex
06-03-2014, 10:39 AM
I'm not the one who suggested he was un-American, that was my point.There is absolutely nothing that would lead me to believe that the father led his son to be un-American.
Well, isn't this what you said?

TubbyDad
06-03-2014, 10:50 AM
There is absolutely nothing that would lead me to believe that the father led his son to be un-American.
Well, isn't this what you said?

Yes, in response to this:


If his son is a deserter, and I think he is, he got his anti american ideals planted in his head from someplace.

I wonder where?

No need to over think it as the apple doesnt fall far from the tree.

Dave76
06-03-2014, 11:02 AM
Awaiting further info which I'm sure will piss me off.

Me too. There are so many things that aren't making sense to me.

For starters, why did the White House make such a huge announcement over a guy accused of desertion? Surely they had to know there would be some major backlash. Trading 5 terrorists for a deserter is not going to receive much positive publicity. If you just had to make the trade for some reason, why wouldn't you do it quietly and maybe no one would notice?

Even scarier thought is that the White House didn't know about the alleged desertion. Making major decisions without the facts is not going to receive much positive publicity either.

Ok, so the father grows a beard and learns Pashto in an effort to keep his son alive. I don't know that it helped much but I can't blame him for doing whatever he thought necessary. Explain, though, after your son has been released why you stand next to the President on national TV and speak Pashto to an audience that has no idea what you're saying.

It's an all volunteer army. No one made you join. If you have un-American feelings, why in the world would you sign up in the first place? It's totally unlike Viet Nam where men were forced to join an unpopular war.

kevinfsyrup
06-03-2014, 11:21 AM
Bergdahl is guilty of treason and his parents could be too.

Wayne Evans
06-03-2014, 11:27 AM
For starters, why did the White House make such a huge announcement over a guy accused of desertion? Surely they had to know there would be some major backlash. Trading 5 terrorists for a deserter is not going to receive much positive publicity. If you just had to make the trade for some reason, why wouldn't you do it quietly and maybe no one would notice? Even scarier thought is that the White House didn't know about the alleged desertion. Making major decisions without the facts is not going to receive much positive publicity either.
It's totally unlike Viet Nam where men were forced to join an unpopular war.

IMO....

Of course they knew....but the current monarchy, in their consistent arrogance, may have thought that this small purge of Gitmo thugs would make everyone overlook the deeper truths unfolding.

(Oh...for the record....I was not forced, I volunteered...I know, I have issues. <wink>.)

Back to topic....

Bushmaster
06-03-2014, 11:30 AM
I'd be more likely to tell the captors to all go to HE## than adopt their ways. In fact I think I'd use my chance at the podium to flip them the bird and encourage the military to crop dust the entire region with pig ashes...

Word is he had "adopted their ways" before he deserted.

Old-Time-Lifter
06-03-2014, 11:36 AM
Word is he had "adopted their ways" before he deserted.

The father or the son?

Bushmaster
06-03-2014, 11:38 AM
The father or the son?

The son. You were talking about captors, and the son is the only one who has been a captive, right?

beachguy498
06-03-2014, 12:16 PM
The family has been through an ordeal few of us would ever fully understand. It very possibly pushed the father over the edge of reason. One of those things that will have to play itself out.

Rob

scullin
06-03-2014, 12:35 PM
I don't care about the father but the son needs to stand trial.

Old-Time-Lifter
06-03-2014, 12:42 PM
The family has been through an ordeal few of us would ever fully understand. It very possibly pushed the father over the edge of reason. One of those things that will have to play itself out.

Rob

Very disrespectful imho to glorify and offer assistance to the enemy that killed and maimed men who were trying to save your low-life son. Those men were somebody else's son and I am outraged that such little regard is paid to their sacrifice. I think the father should have declined the offer to speak and done everything he could to 'NOT' glorify the enemy.

And I was talking about the father adopting the enemies ways he's the one offering a Muslim prayer at this presser. I have no respect for the guy and his absolute disregard for those who died trying to 'free' his low-life son.

TubbyDad
06-03-2014, 12:58 PM
Very disrespectful imho to glorify and offer assistance to the enemy that killed and maimed men who were trying to save your low-life son. Those men were somebody else's son and I am outraged that such little regard is paid to their sacrifice. I think the father should have declined the offer to speak and done everything he could to 'NOT' glorify the enemy.

And I was talking about the father adopting the enemies ways he's the one offering a Muslim prayer at this presser. I have no respect for the guy and his absolute disregard for those who died trying to 'free' his low-life son.

According to him, it is not his intention to glorify the enemy, but rather an attempt to understand their motives. I see nothing wrong with that (even if I personally consider it to be a lost cause).

Wayne Evans
06-03-2014, 12:59 PM
I think the father should have declined the offer to speak and done everything he could to 'NOT' glorify the enemy.

I agree...

The father likely knew the hidden (until now) truths of his son's actions.
He wasn't captured in an ambush or operation gone bad along side his Brothers.
He would have to know that truths of his son's circumstances would become public and yet still had the balls to accept the invitational five minutes of fame with your :) CIC.

On spread....back to topic.

Old-Time-Lifter
06-03-2014, 01:31 PM
According to him, it is not his intention to glorify the enemy, but rather an attempt to understand their motives. I see nothing wrong with that (even if I personally consider it to be a lost cause).

BS, if you actually buy that line I've got a bridge to sell you.

Wayne Evans
06-03-2014, 01:44 PM
According to him, it is not his intention to glorify the enemy, but rather an attempt to understand their motives. .

His comments are a disingenuous way of trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shvt regarding his son's behavior and actions.

We all know their motives....religious extremists desiring to kill all that don't adhere to their self exalting religious beliefs.

IMO....end of story.

acrawlingchaos
06-03-2014, 02:06 PM
I'll wait for facts surrounding the matter to come to light. No use in forming an opinion based on speculation.

NorwichGrad
06-03-2014, 02:09 PM
I'll wait for facts surrounding the matter to come to light. No use in forming an opinion based on speculation.

Agreed.. I just hope we get the TRUTH.

SP1966
06-03-2014, 03:49 PM
Me too. There are so many things that aren't making sense to me.

For starters, why did the White House make such a huge announcement over a guy accused of desertion? Surely they had to know there would be some major backlash. Trading 5 terrorists for a deserter is not going to receive much positive publicity. If you just had to make the trade for some reason, why wouldn't you do it quietly and maybe no one would notice?

Even scarier thought is that the White House didn't know about the alleged desertion. Making major decisions without the facts is not going to receive much positive publicity either.


The VA is turning into a real issue for Obama, you know when even NBC's Chuck Todd is asking hard questions. There will be no cover on this one, or at least very little cover. Given the timing and the big deal that was made of it, along with the fact that they broke the law in doing it in the first place makes them sound desperate for a distraction.

SP1966
06-03-2014, 03:51 PM
I'll wait for facts surrounding the matter to come to light. No use in forming an opinion based on speculation.

You're no fun.

SP1966
06-03-2014, 03:52 PM
Agreed.. I just hope we get the TRUTH.

Hope in one hand, change in the other, either way all you're left with is two empty hands.

GuyJin
06-03-2014, 04:00 PM
The VA is turning into a real issue for Obama, you know when even NBC's Chuck Todd is asking hard questions. There will be no cover on this one, or at least very little cover. Given the timing and the big deal that was made of it, along with the fact that they broke the law in doing it in the first place makes them sound desperate for a distraction.
---

Much as I dislike Obama's policies, you can't hang the problems of the VA all on him. This goes way back to various other administrations (both Rep. and Dem.) so to say it's all his fault or imply it is, is being disingenuous. Using this AWOL (allegedly) soldier won't and can't be used as a distraction; the crap that's happened is already out there.

As for what exactly happened with the soldier and his supposed desertion, I'm going to wait on the facts instead of going the supposition route.

SP1966
06-03-2014, 04:13 PM
---

Much as I dislike Obama's policies, you can't hang the problems of the VA all on him. This goes way back to various other administrations (both Rep. and Dem.) so to say it's all his fault or imply it is, is being disingenuous. Using this AWOL (allegedly) soldier won't and can't be used as a distraction; the crap that's happened is already out there.


I didn't suggest that this falls entirely on Obama, but it did not get fixed on his watch either. The VA and pretty much every other large Federal agency are all bureaucratic nightmares and the only way to fix something that has grown to large to function is to reduce it's size, and streamline it's operations such that you know what the hell is going on inside of it. Of course with it being a government agency we know the answer isn't disorganization, but in fact that we didn't throw enough money at it. We must hire more people so they can try to figure out what all the people we've already hired are supposed to be doing, if anything.



As for what exactly happened with the soldier and his supposed desertion, I'm going to wait on the facts instead of going the supposition route.

Our government doesn't release the truth unless it suites them. I'm not suggesting that this is recent, only happens when Dems are in charge or anything else, I'm just saying, they will cover up the truth if it doesn't work to their advantage. It's no different than the VA, they covered up the backlogs, they covered up the fact that they were simply canceling requests for service without notification, they told you only what they wanted to hear. It was the same bullsh!t with the f'cking movie and Benghazi. Bureaucrats and elected officials who've forgotten the pecking order, they've come to the conclusion that it's their government, and they'll tell us serfs whatever the f'ck they want.

TubbyDad
06-03-2014, 04:23 PM
BS, if you actually buy that line I've got a bridge to sell you.


His comments are a disingenuous way of trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shvt regarding his son's behavior and actions.

We all know their motives....religious extremists desiring to kill all that don't adhere to their self exalting religious beliefs.

IMO....end of story.

It's cool, I'm not going to argue with you guys. At your ages if you haven't learned not to assume then you never will, and I certainly will never change your mind.


I'll wait for facts surrounding the matter to come to light. No use in forming an opinion based on speculation.

Exactly.

Corbi
06-03-2014, 04:29 PM
I didn't suggest that this falls entirely on Obama, but it did not get fixed on his watch either.

True but how many issues have to come up and ole Barry never gets the blame? At some point the words of Harry Truman need to be repeated.
http://andyvance.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/truman_buck_stops.jpg

SP1966
06-03-2014, 04:33 PM
True but how many issues have to come up and ole Barry never gets the blame? At some point the words of Harry Truman need to be repeated.
http://andyvance.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/truman_buck_stops.jpg

When Barry says "The Buck Stops Here" what he's telling you is that he made sure to stop that buck before it got into your paycheck!

Phattso
06-03-2014, 04:37 PM
I'll take all of the soldier's words for it that the guy deserted and six men died because of him. They were there. Susan Rice wasn't.

SP1966
06-03-2014, 04:46 PM
I'll take all of the soldier's words for it that the guy deserted and six men died because of him. They were there. Susan Rice wasn't.

It is rare that you hear of one (or more) veterans badmouthing another, the fact that so many that served with Bergdahl have come out against the swap speaks volumes. Politicians and bureaucrats are always motivated by self preservation, what motivation do these Soldiers have to lie?

Wayne Evans
06-03-2014, 04:46 PM
It's cool, I'm not going to argue with you guys. At your ages if you haven't learned not to assume then you never will, and I certainly will never change your mind.
.

TubbyDad.....I do not see any of this dialogue as an 'argument'.
My position (based on what little we may have) is not to argue with you or anyone else here, nor do I think my views would reflect any consensus.
I merely disagreed about the father's supposed "intention" within your post.

It's a shvtty, emotionally charged situation that can get all of us amped up a bit.
My intention :) would be to keep this thread civil, respectful and see how all here voice their opinions as more facts become revealed.

Carry on....

Phattso
06-03-2014, 05:03 PM
It is rare that you hear of one (or more) veterans badmouthing another, the fact that so many that served with Bergdahl have come out against the swap speaks volumes. Politicians and bureaucrats are always motivated by self preservation, what motivation do these Soldiers have to lie?

Exactly.

ironwill2008
06-03-2014, 05:04 PM
A CNN report said the soldiers serving with that guy stated that he laid his flak jacket and weapon on the ground, and just walked away from his post while he was on guard duty. Back when I was in the Army, that was pretty much the UCMJ definition of desertion.

Based on that alone, I don't give a **** about that guy, or what he went through during his "captivity" (or whatever the hell it was). What I want to know is why he isn't in a stockade awaiting a general court-martial.

SP1966
06-03-2014, 05:08 PM
A CNN report said the soldiers serving with that guy stated that he laid his flak jacket and weapon on the ground, and just walked away from his post while he was on guard duty. Back when I was in the Army, that was pretty much the UCMJ definition of desertion.

Based on that alone, I don't give a **** about that guy, or what he went through during his "captivity" (or whatever the hell it was). What I want to know is why he isn't in a stockade awaiting a general court-martial.

There is also a report from another of his fellow Soldiers saying he left a note indicating he wanted to renounce his US citizenship. Something tells me Bergdahl isn't going to be invited to any reunion BBQs.

Brackneyc
06-03-2014, 05:57 PM
A CNN report said the soldiers serving with that guy stated that he laid his flak jacket and weapon on the ground, and just walked away from his post while he was on guard duty. Back when I was in the Army, that was pretty much the UCMJ definition of desertion.

Based on that alone, I don't give a **** about that guy, or what he went through during his "captivity" (or whatever the hell it was). What I want to know is why he isn't in a stockade awaiting a general court-martial.

Probably had a rough childhood.

eomrat
06-03-2014, 08:25 PM
TubbyDad.....I do not see any of this dialogue as an 'argument'.
My position (based on what little we may have) is not to argue with you or anyone else here, nor do I think my views would reflect any consensus.
I merely disagreed about the father's supposed "intention" within your post.

It's a shvtty, emotionally charged situation that can get all of us amped up a bit.
My intention :) would be to keep this thread civil, respectful and see how all here voice their opinions as more facts become revealed.

Carry on....

If I may, I would like to suggest that this thread and this topic, considering some of the uninformed opinions being expressed here and your personal history, may be a thread that a guy like you should skip. Same goes for Scullin, Bushmaster, and Will.

Old-Time-Lifter
06-03-2014, 08:28 PM
It is rare that you hear of one (or more) veterans badmouthing another, the fact that so many that served with Bergdahl have come out against the swap speaks volumes. Politicians and bureaucrats are always motivated by self preservation, what motivation do these Soldiers have to lie?

Exactly.

And even a local vet who served with him has come out saying the guy was a deserter.

The guy needs to rot in the stockade for the rest of his days.

acrawlingchaos
06-03-2014, 08:30 PM
It is rare that you hear of one (or more) veterans badmouthing another, the fact that so many that served with Bergdahl have come out against the swap speaks volumes. Politicians and bureaucrats are always motivated by self preservation, what motivation do these Soldiers have to lie?It's rare, but cover ups have and do happen. This could very well be one of those cases.

SP1966
06-03-2014, 08:32 PM
It's rare, but cover ups have and do happen. This could very well be one of those cases.

This is kind of ambiguous, care to expand?

Old-Time-Lifter
06-03-2014, 08:35 PM
It's rare, but cover ups have and do happen. This could very well be one of those cases.

What in the world could they be covering up?

Of course it was likely done to draw attention away from the VA mess, but it kind of blew up in their faces.

jeffaus
06-03-2014, 08:37 PM
His ugly ar$e father to cut his hair and shave that scraggly excuse of a beard. Everytime I see a picture of him it just grates on me.

For crying out loud you're on National TV try not to look like they just woke you up in the gutter and they hosed you off and put a clean shirt and pants on ya.I only started watching him because when I first saw him walk out with U.S Pres, I thought, what is Iron Charles doing on TV?

Other than that, I don't have anything of value to offer to this thread.

jeffaus
06-03-2014, 08:45 PM
For crying out loud you're on National TV try not to look like they just woke you up in the gutter and they hosed you off and put a clean shirt and pants on ya.No Roy, he's on WORLD TV. I had a few Chinese friends here ask, is that how Americans all really look and I answered diplomatically, NOOOOOO!!!!, they are usually worse. That guy is one of the better ones. :D

Old-Time-Lifter
06-03-2014, 08:52 PM
No Roy, he's on WORLD TV. I had a few Chinese friends here ask, is that how Americans all really look and I answered diplomatically, NOOOOOO!!!!, they are usually worse. That guy is one of the better ones. :D

Gee.... thanks!!

:p

jeffaus
06-03-2014, 08:55 PM
Gee.... thanks!!

:pYou are welcome. Always do my best to help Roy.

acrawlingchaos
06-03-2014, 09:02 PM
This is kind of ambiguous, care to expand?He may be a whistle-blower or simply could have been perceived as a whistle-blower. I want to hear what he says... if he is allowed/decides to speak. I doubt the White House "didn't know" about the deserter status. If the US was willing to hand over 5 high ranking Taliban officials for a deserter.... there is most likely a reason.


What in the world could they be covering up?The Mai Lai Massacre comes to mind as extreme example. Twenty-six US soldiers killed 300-500 unarmed women and children. Only 1 convicted, and the 3 that tried to stop them where criticized by congressmen and received hate mail and death threats.


Of course it was likely done to draw attention away from the VA mess, but it kind of blew up in their faces.Of course, he could very well just be a deserter.

mixbwoy
06-03-2014, 09:29 PM
Guess if he had a duck, a bandana & a tv show it would be ok.

http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/fn2/video/876/493/122213_Buzz_Duck_640.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

:D

Fishman15
06-03-2014, 09:36 PM
According to him, it is not his intention to glorify the enemy, but rather an attempt to understand their motives. I see nothing wrong with that (even if I personally consider it to be a lost cause).

Are there still people in this country who need to "understand" terrorists? Good Lord this country needs help...

Fishman15
06-03-2014, 09:42 PM
I'll wait for facts surrounding the matter to come to light. No use in forming an opinion based on speculation.

Unfortunately, the facts will more than likely never come out. Not too different than Benghazi...it seems to be a theme from the current administration.

Fishman15
06-03-2014, 09:45 PM
I only started watching him because when I first saw him walk out with U.S Pres, I thought, what is Iron Charles doing on TV?

Other than that, I don't have anything of value to offer to this thread.

Well, you could have at least brought us all burgers then...

Old-Time-Lifter
06-03-2014, 09:54 PM
well, you could have at least brought us all burgers then...

lol!

Wayne Evans
06-03-2014, 09:55 PM
If I may, I would like to suggest that this thread and this topic, considering some of the uninformed opinions being expressed here and your personal history, may be a thread that a guy like you should skip. Same goes for Scullin, Bushmaster, and Will.

Very intuitive suggestion....message received......on spread. :)

Back to topic....

jeffaus
06-03-2014, 09:56 PM
Well, you could have at least brought us all burgers then...If I can feed the masses ITT, while they argue about who did what to who and who hit who first and who went over to play with the neighbours kids while leaving his brothers at home, then Im only too happy to do so.


I think there's something in that for all of us, don't you?

so-tex
06-03-2014, 10:07 PM
If I can feed the masses ITT, while they argue about who did what to who and who hit who first and who went over to play with the neighbours kids while leaving his brothers at home, then Im only too happy to do so.


I think there's something in that for all of us, don't you?Fuk the others ITT, and feed me you bastard. Rep me while you're at it.

hmmmm16417
06-03-2014, 10:10 PM
so a guy that went AWOL got captured , meanwhile 6 fellow americans die looking for him. He gets promoted from private to Sargent and then we trade 5 talaban prisoners for his release?

I'm sure he will have a presidential ceremony and be called some sort of hero now?

wtf is this world coming to.

jeffaus
06-03-2014, 10:15 PM
Fuk the others ITT, and feed me you bastard. Rep me while you're at it.On spread with you bish, you will have to wait.

so-tex
06-03-2014, 10:18 PM
On spread with you bish, you will have to wait.Yeah, I was gonna neg you too, but my user cp, told me, you need to spread some negatation around before giving it to a mutt like jeffaus.

Fishman15
06-03-2014, 10:21 PM
If I can feed the masses ITT, while they argue about who did what to who and who hit who first and who went over to play with the neighbours kids while leaving his brothers at home, then Im only too happy to do so.


I think there's something in that for all of us, don't you?

Yes, we will all still be hungry and you will now be broke...

so-tex
06-03-2014, 10:27 PM
so a guy that went AWOL got captured , meanwhile 6 fellow americans die looking for him. He gets promoted from private to Sargent and then we trade 5 talaban prisoners for his release?

I'm sure he will have a presidential ceremony and be called some sort of hero now?

wtf is this world coming to.It's crazy isn't it?


Yes, we will all still be hungry and you will now be broke...You're gonna have to rep me and jeffaus, or it's negs for life newbie. :p

Fishman15
06-03-2014, 10:57 PM
You're gonna have to rep me and jeffaus, or it's negs for life newbie. :p

Not allowed, yer both a couple of rep hoars...:D

jeffaus
06-03-2014, 11:30 PM
Not allowed, yer both a couple of rep hoars...:DNegged for calling us out Fishmutt.

so-tex
06-03-2014, 11:34 PM
Negged for calling us out Fishmutt.Yup. I'm on neg spread with Fishmutt as well.

JediRN
06-03-2014, 11:54 PM
Me too. There are so many things that aren't making sense to me.

For starters, why did the White House make such a huge announcement over a guy accused of desertion? Surely they had to know there would be some major backlash. Trading 5 terrorists for a deserter is not going to receive much positive publicity. If you just had to make the trade for some reason, why wouldn't you do it quietly and maybe no one would notice?

... or he doesn't make a big deal about it (and it is a big deal) and all the conservative would be screaming "Why did he try to cover this up?"

I'm certain that Obama made a bad decision to bring him back this way. I also think that it was probably the least bad choice of the several bad options available to him.




It's an all volunteer army. No one made you join. If you have un-American feelings, why in the world would you sign up in the first place? It's totally unlike Viet Nam where men were forced to join an unpopular war.

valid point



The VA is turning into a real issue for Obama, you know when even NBC's Chuck Todd is asking hard questions. There will be no cover on this one, or at least very little cover. Given the timing and the big deal that was made of it, along with the fact that they broke the law in doing it in the first place makes them sound desperate for a distraction.

Keep in mind the problem is getting the vets into this wonderful bastion of socialized medicine that we call the VA and not the care they get when they are in. (oh, and the lyng on wait times...inexcusable) One of the two main reasons why it takes so long for vets to get into the system is that the VA provides such good care that we are packed. It was the obvious result of poor planning and years of quality improvements. We started two unfunded wars and created millions of new veterans but we didn't scale up the VA to accomidate them when they discharge.

There's plenty of blame to go around.

The great thing about this scandle is that hopefully what needs to be fixed will be fixed and the VA can carry on with our mission of "Keeping the promise"

TubbyDad
06-04-2014, 06:18 AM
Are there still people in this country who need to "understand" terrorists? Good Lord this country needs help...

It's not that they don't understand terror for the sake of terror, it's that they don't understand terror for the sake of religion. I applaud the father for all the research he has done in trying to determine what would tie the Quran with terrorist acts. His (purported) intent was to try to touch base with the terrorists under the premise of "we aren't all that different" (which, religiously, Christians and Muslims really aren't all that different, it's the interpretations and actions based on those interpretations that draw some rigid lines).

TubbyDad
06-04-2014, 06:21 AM
TubbyDad.....I do not see any of this dialogue as an 'argument'.
My position (based on what little we may have) is not to argue with you or anyone else here, nor do I think my views would reflect any consensus.
I merely disagreed about the father's supposed "intention" within your post.

It's a shvtty, emotionally charged situation that can get all of us amped up a bit.
My intention :) would be to keep this thread civil, respectful and see how all here voice their opinions as more facts become revealed.

Carry on....

It's possible I misinterpreted the tone of your posts, so I apologize.

Old-Time-Lifter
06-04-2014, 06:41 AM
It's not that they don't understand terror for the sake of terror, it's that they don't understand terror for the sake of religion. I applaud the father for all the research he has done in trying to determine what would tie the Quran with terrorist acts. His (purported) intent was to try to touch base with the terrorists under the premise of "we aren't all that different" (which, religiously, Christians and Muslims really aren't all that different, it's the interpretations and actions based on those interpretations that draw some rigid lines).

You have obviously no freaking clue... you're a religion hater so I'll disregard your massive ignorance on the topic.

TubbyDad
06-04-2014, 06:44 AM
You have obviously no freaking clue... you're a religion hater so I'll disregard your massive ignorance on the topic.

No no, please go on. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Tell me where I am wrong.

Old-Time-Lifter
06-04-2014, 06:47 AM
No no, please go on. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Tell me where I am wrong.

Good grief do you have to work hard to be so blind?

You lump all religions together and insult them, but have you ever studied the history and the origin of any of them?

And not the crap and lies that are put forth on atheist web sites either.

TubbyDad
06-04-2014, 06:52 AM
Good grief do you have to work hard to be so blind?

You lump all religions together and insult them, but have you ever studied the history and the origin of any of them?

And not the crap and lies that are put forth on atheist web sites either.

Yes, I have. Are you offended that Islam and Christianity share the same roots and are remarkably similar in nature and beliefs (aside from the holy trinity)?

Phattso
06-04-2014, 07:05 AM
Good grief do you have to work hard to be so blind?

You lump all religions together and insult them, but have you ever studied the history and the origin of any of them?

And not the crap and lies that are put forth on atheist web sites either.

It's the MO of most liberals who try their best to rationalize their twisted bullshiit by proxy to the less intelligent herds that follow them over the cliff.

Old-Time-Lifter
06-04-2014, 07:11 AM
Yes, I have. Are you offended that Islam and Christianity share the same roots and are remarkably similar in nature and beliefs (aside from the holy trinity)?

No I'm offended that you trot out that tripe. Islam distorted both Christianity and Judaism (though he relied more on a regional diety) into a religion of hate, conquest and murder. The fact that he may have distorted these texts does not make them 'related'. Islam is a dangerous movement to say the least and is responsible for more death and destruction than any other factor in history. Don't trot out that tired refrain of the Crusades because that's a unique period in time and Christianity has gone through a great deal of soul searching since that time. Also that was the Catholic church which can stand alone on that period of history my religious ancestors split from that branch a long time ago. The Crusades were also a response to Muslim aggression, conquest and murder. The intent was good, the execution of several not so good.

That there are some beliefs the same (and actually there are very, very few) does not for a second offset the considerable number that are DIFFERENT. You cannot get away with painting with a broad brush and lumping the good in with the bad. Now, there are branches of Islam that have interpreted their scriptures less radically but they are the minority and generally keep very mum since the other muslims are likely to kill them if they speak up. In Judaism and Christianity you don't see anyone who is in fear for their lives if they speak out against the others. That is a none to small difference and that alone negates your trying to lump us all into one.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/05/the_greatest_murder_machine_in_history.html

TubbyDad
06-04-2014, 07:19 AM
Haha, so your defense of the Crusades is that it was essentially a "rough patch?" Then what was the inquisition? Also, I'm sure you realize that there are currently states in Africa where peaceful Christians don't speak out for fear of being killed by violent Christians. I wonder if in a thousand years the Muslims will say that this was all just a rough patch for their religion.

beachguy498
06-04-2014, 07:25 AM
Unfortunately, the facts will more than likely never come out. Not too different than Benghazi...it seems to be a theme from the current administration.

Anything you see in the press is so scrubbed by the time it gets released.. and surely served with a dash or so of disinformation. Just enough so that not one of us can talk about the subject matter with a modicum of intelligence.

Rob

Wayne Evans
06-04-2014, 07:42 AM
It's possible I misinterpreted the tone of your posts, so I apologize.

Not a problem....I have the skin of a snow tire.
My 'tone' is in line with the gravity of this event.

This is a thread about a Soldier that is, by all accounts, a deserter.
Whether he was a traitor or collaborator is maybe yet to be established.

Having served myself I (obviously) have very strong convictions about all this.....just like many others who've commented.

Back to topic....

eomrat
06-04-2014, 08:04 AM
Haha, so your defense of the Crusades is that it was essentially a "rough patch?" Then what was the inquisition? Also, I'm sure you realize that there are currently states in Africa where peaceful Christians don't speak out for fear of being killed by violent Christians. I wonder if in a thousand years the Muslims will say that this was all just a rough patch for their religion.

How much of your time do you spend thinking about religion and how wrong every one except you is?

TubbyDad
06-04-2014, 09:10 AM
How much of your time do you spend thinking about religion and how wrong every one except you is?

Depends on the conversation.

JediRN
06-04-2014, 09:11 AM
You have obviously no freaking clue... you're a religion hater so I'll disregard your massive ignorance on the topic.

I'm a pro-Christian atheist with a decent understanding of Christian theology. Tubby has a valid perspective. It is a liberal trait to try to understand things. That's why a majority of scientist are liberal. We like to think things through. It's kinda what we do.


Not a problem....I have the skin of a snow tire.
My 'tone' is in line with the gravity of this event.

This is a thread about a Soldier that is, by all accounts, a deserter.
Whether he was a traitor or collaborator is maybe yet to be established.

Having served myself I (obviously) have very strong convictions about all this.....just like many others who've commented.

Back to topic....

I wonder if he had ptsd and walking out into the wilderness unarmed was just his method of committing suicide? Suicide is a major problem with war vets. Just a thought.

And before I get flamed for being a pinko commie bastard, traitors like Snowden should be shot...period.


How much of your time do you spend thinking about religion and how wrong every one except you is?

Probably about the same as the average frozen chosen christian.

What would Jesus have done for this lost sheep that we label a deserter?

Phattso
06-04-2014, 09:15 AM
I'm a pro-Christian atheist with a decent understanding of Christian theology. Tubby has a valid perspective. It is a liberal trait to try to understand things. That's why a majority of scientist are liberal. We like to think things through. It's kinda what we do.

Not all scientists are liberals and please don't condescend conservatives as people who only believe in fairy tales and who do not have the brain power to think things through.

michail71
06-04-2014, 09:23 AM
I'm not sure but I remember reading he wasn't going to shave until his son was home.

Dave76
06-04-2014, 09:28 AM
I'm a pro-Christian atheist with a decent understanding of Christian theology. Tubby has a valid perspective. It is a liberal trait to try to understand things. That's why a majority of scientist are liberal. We like to think things through. It's kinda what we do.
Oddly enough, I'm a conservative Electrical Engineer. I, too, like to think things through. It's what I do. Including having done a lot of self study on Islam to try to understand their point of view.


I wonder if he had ptsd and walking out into the wilderness unarmed was just his method of committing suicide? Suicide is a major problem with war vets. Just a thought.
Again, amazingly enough for a conservative, I've thought the same thing. That is exactly why, though I'm convinced that he deserted, I have not called for his court martial and imprisonment.


And before I get flamed for being a pinko commie bastard, traitors like Snowden should be shot...period.
I agree with shooting traitors. I'm inclined to wait on all the facts about Snowden before I pull the trigger, though.


Probably about the same as the average frozen chosen christian.

What would Jesus have done for this lost sheep that we label a deserter?
He would have forgiven him. The same as he would do for anyone currently incarcerated for committing a crime.

Old-Time-Lifter
06-04-2014, 09:31 AM
To dismiss the differences in the three major religions as differences in interpretation is dishonest and dismissive.

When one teaches/preaches "death to unbelievers", "the tree cries out there is a behind me come and kill him"; and another teaches "love your enemies" and "turn the other cheek" you've gone way past a disagreement in interpretation.

Do they have some common roots... sure, but to blanket say it's a difference in interpretation is an attempt to mislead and misinform.

Old-Time-Lifter
06-04-2014, 09:35 AM
Oddly enough, I'm a conservative Electrical Engineer. I, too, like to think things through. It's what I do. Including having done a lot of self study on Islam to try to understand their point of view.


I too studied Islam and ironically prior to my diving into it I was inclined to say that all three (Islam/Christianity/Judaism) worshipped the same God. After reading the Koran and other documents I determined that was a completely false premise.

I do agree that Jesus would and has forgiven this young man. But that doesn't mean we turn him loose nor that we turn the terrorists loose to cause more mayhem here on earth. God forgives all ultimately but there is a price to be paid for sin and disbelief both in this life and beyond.

KeepItMoving
06-04-2014, 09:37 AM
And our government negotiated the release of 5 hard core fighters back to the mid east...

If Obama was a sports GM, he'd already be fired for that trade alone.

TubbyDad
06-04-2014, 09:39 AM
To dismiss the differences in the three major religions as differences in interpretation is dishonest and dismissive.

When one teaches/preaches "death to unbelievers", "the tree cries out there is a behind me come and kill him"; and another teaches "love your enemies" and "turn the other cheek" you've gone way past a disagreement in interpretation.

Do they have some common roots... sure, but to blanket say it's a difference in interpretation is an attempt to mislead and misinform.

Here are a few excerpts from the Old Testament.


This is where God promotes rape and plunder:

Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)


Here he kills 70,000 people:

(God punishes David for ordering a census of his people.) Yahweh spoke to Gad, David's seer, saying, Go and speak to David, saying, Thus says Yahweh, I offer you three things: choose you one of them, that I may do it to you. So Gad came to David, and said to him, Thus says Yahweh, Take which you will: either three years of famine; or three months to be consumed before your foes, while the sword of your enemies overtakes you; or else three days the sword of Yahweh, even pestilence in the land, and the angel of Yahweh destroying throughout all the borders of Israel. Now therefore consider what answer I shall return to him who sent me. David said to Gad, I am in a great strait: let me fall, I pray, into the hand of Yahweh; for very great are his mercies: and let me not fall into the hand of man. So Yahweh sent a pestilence on Israel; and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men. (1 Chronicles 21:9-14 WEB)

This one falls in line a bit more with your examples; he instructs to kill anyone that approaches the tabernacle:

For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Old-Time-Lifter
06-04-2014, 09:51 AM
Here are a few excerpts from the Old Testament.


This is where God promotes rape and plunder:

Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)


Here he kills 70,000 people:

(God punishes David for ordering a census of his people.) Yahweh spoke to Gad, David's seer, saying, Go and speak to David, saying, Thus says Yahweh, I offer you three things: choose you one of them, that I may do it to you. So Gad came to David, and said to him, Thus says Yahweh, Take which you will: either three years of famine; or three months to be consumed before your foes, while the sword of your enemies overtakes you; or else three days the sword of Yahweh, even pestilence in the land, and the angel of Yahweh destroying throughout all the borders of Israel. Now therefore consider what answer I shall return to him who sent me. David said to Gad, I am in a great strait: let me fall, I pray, into the hand of Yahweh; for very great are his mercies: and let me not fall into the hand of man. So Yahweh sent a pestilence on Israel; and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men. (1 Chronicles 21:9-14 WEB)

This one falls in line a bit more with your examples; he instructs to kill anyone that approaches the tabernacle:

For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)


Notice you went directly to the OT nicely done. Of course none of those are currently upheld by Judaism and if you'll notice the violence in the OT is overwhelmingly (the reference in Numbers aside and of course the Tabernacle is no more so it's a mute issue) PAST tense, in the Koran the violence is past, future, and present tense. The violence in the OT is parable, mythology with some historic events, the violence in the Koran are marching orders.

Big difference that cannot be brushed off as 'common roots'.

Jtbny
06-04-2014, 09:55 AM
Where is a picture of IDs tiny little calves when you need them.....



:D

TubbyDad
06-04-2014, 10:30 AM
Notice you went directly to the OT nicely done. Of course none of those are currently upheld by Judaism and if you'll notice the violence in the OT is overwhelmingly (the reference in Numbers aside and of course the Tabernacle is no more so it's a mute issue) PAST tense, in the Koran the violence is past, future, and present tense. The violence in the OT is parable, mythology with some historic events, the violence in the Koran are marching orders.

Big difference that cannot be brushed off as 'common roots'.

That's a valid point. But I still say it comes back to perspective and interpretation. Certainly there are many Muslims who are not violent, and they likely subscribe to Mohammed's writings as relevant to the time period that he wrote them, but the principles being applicable to modern (civil) society. I don't know if I personally buy into that. Personally, the teachings of Mohammed seem pretty clear and in stark contrast to those of Jesus, despite the fact that Muslims consider Jesus to be a prophet.

But ultimately I think that the capacity exists to interpret Islam peacefully (in fact I know it exists because I know many peaceful Muslims) and I think that is what the father was trying to do in this case (or at least that's what he is trying to convey to us). And his [purported] intent was to try to convince the captors of the possibility of peace. It seems crazy and the odds of it working are probably next to nil, but I can understand his line of reasoning.

eomrat
06-04-2014, 10:56 AM
I'm a pro-Christian atheist with a decent understanding of Christian theology. Tubby has a valid perspective. It is a liberal trait to try to understand things. That's why a majority of scientist are liberal. We like to think things through. It's kinda what we do.



I wonder if he had ptsd and walking out into the wilderness unarmed was just his method of committing suicide? Suicide is a major problem with war vets. Just a thought.

And before I get flamed for being a pinko commie bastard, traitors like Snowden should be shot...period.



Probably about the same as the average frozen chosen christian.

What would Jesus have done for this lost sheep that we label a deserter?

"Frozen Chosin" is a term that refers to the Marines that fought at, and around, the Chosin reservoir in Korea.

acrawlingchaos
06-04-2014, 11:36 AM
"Frozen Chosin" is a term that refers to the Marines that fought at, and around, the Chosin reservoir in Korea.http://i1.wp.com/ywmovement.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/2014-02-03-08.38.04-am.png





http://dinarvets.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/shrug.gif

Frnkd
06-04-2014, 12:09 PM
Me too. There are so many things that aren't making sense to me.

For starters, why did the White House make such a huge announcement over a guy accused of desertion? Surely they had to know there would be some major backlash. Trading 5 terrorists for a deserter is not going to receive much positive publicity. If you just had to make the trade for some reason, why wouldn't you do it quietly and maybe no one would notice?

Even scarier thought is that the White House didn't know about the alleged desertion. Making major decisions without the facts is not going to receive much positive publicity either.

Ok, so the father grows a beard and learns Pashto in an effort to keep his son alive. I don't know that it helped much but I can't blame him for doing whatever he thought necessary. Explain, though, after your son has been released why you stand next to the President on national TV and speak Pashto to an audience that has no idea what you're saying.

It's an all volunteer army. No one made you join. If you have un-American feelings, why in the world would you sign up in the first place? It's totally unlike Viet Nam where men were forced to join an unpopular war.

It baffles me as to why after 5 years this is coming out regarding him....I think the motives of those that are making these accusations, yes until the truth is confirmed its accusations, should be questioned.

people that jump on this bandwagon and start looking for any sign that validate this judgement forget the basic American value- "innocent until proven guilty" and who best to do that than the military.

Geeze, for whatever reason he was captured, this young man spent 5 YEARS with the enemy, what kind of treatment, turmoil, and psychological trauma has he gone through.

That email that the father released I think was in poor judgement....this is a son who is expressing himself privately, not trying to be PC, how many sons have sent that kind of email to their parents, brothers, wives and friends. Expressing your feelings in times of tremendous stress releases some of that stress, we all know that. Take this forum for example.

There was one point that I read...the war is winding down, that means everyone at gitmo would be released...why hold war prisoners any longer than the end of the war. Bush and every war time president have acted accordingly, btw. Oh but this is the worst of the worst, well if the life of one American soldier benefited isnt this what should be celebrated. These 5 would have been released anyway.

Oh yeah, AWOL? ask GW Bush about what that's like. and he became president...... no one made a big deal about that.

eomrat
06-04-2014, 12:27 PM
Oh yeah, AWOL? ask GW Bush about what that's like. and he became president...... no one made a big deal about that.

Yes, they did. Dan Rather even got fired for using falsified documents in a news story about it. It was in the news for months. There was talk of congressional hearings. How do you reconcile that with, "no one made a big deal about that?" Do you really not remember?

As far as this coming out after 5 years, do you think that, just maybe, forcing soldiers to sign a non- disclosure agreement may be the cause of the delay? Question his platoon mates motives all you want, but can you explain what you think a possible reason for all these people to come out and perjure themselves to discredit this guy might be? Can you give us some scenario that explains dozens and dozens of Soldiers making these claims might be? Is it a conspiracy?

I feel confident that, as you seem to have a habit like you did here, of making every conceivable subject somehow political that you assume that all these Soldiers and other servicemen are all lying to advance a political agenda. You may be surprised to know that most people do not live and breath politics, in fact, most people find you political whores quite boring.

Dave76
06-04-2014, 01:11 PM
It baffles me as to why after 5 years this is coming out regarding him....I think the motives of those that are making these accusations, yes until the truth is confirmed its accusations, should be questioned.
Non disclosure agreements are strange things. It took a Presidential press conference where Bergdahl was practically honored as a returning hero for those soldiers to stand up and say "Wait a minute here...".


people that jump on this bandwagon and start looking for any sign that validate this judgement forget the basic American value- "innocent until proven guilty" and who best to do that than the military.
Who said he didn't deserve his day in court?


Geeze, for whatever reason he was captured, this young man spent 5 YEARS with the enemy, what kind of treatment, turmoil, and psychological trauma has he gone through.
I suspect (ie my opinion) is that Bergdahl was a crazy, mixed up, idealistic kid who made a stupid decision. If that's the case, I'd agree that he's been punished enough for the stupidity. Along with a dishonorable discharge.


That email that the father released I think was in poor judgement....this is a son who is expressing himself privately, not trying to be PC, how many sons have sent that kind of email to their parents, brothers, wives and friends. Expressing your feelings in times of tremendous stress releases some of that stress, we all know that. Take this forum for example.
You'd have to ask the father about that. I didn't think he did his son any favors by quoting the Quran in a Presidential press conference either.


There was one point that I read...the war is winding down, that means everyone at gitmo would be released...why hold war prisoners any longer than the end of the war. Bush and every war time president have acted accordingly, btw. Oh but this is the worst of the worst, well if the life of one American soldier benefited isnt this what should be celebrated. These 5 would have been released anyway.
POWs are released but not terrorists. If these guys are classified as POWs, why not inform Congress 30 days ago as the law (signed by this President) requires?


Oh yeah, AWOL? ask GW Bush about what that's like. and he became president...... no one made a big deal about that.
Dan Rather blabbered on about it for days. It was a pretty big deal at the time but Bush was elected anyway. Good thing too, or the current President wouldn't have anyone to blame these days.

Bushmaster
06-04-2014, 01:17 PM
Oh yeah, AWOL? ask GW Bush about what that's like. and he became president...... no one made a big deal about that.

No one? Are you sure of that..?

But who was Rathergate?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rathergate

Wayne Evans
06-04-2014, 01:19 PM
I wonder if he had ptsd and walking out into the wilderness unarmed was just his method of committing suicide? Suicide is a major problem with war vets. Just a thought.

IMO...

That's quite a stretch for minimizing what we are told by those who served with him.

'PTSD' issue?....BS....one could say all who have endured the brutality and ugliness of war and the loss of Brothers has a bit of ptsd.
I have mixed feelings about any ptsd defense to suit one's behavior, actions or character.
I don't buy it for a nano second in this case.
One doesn't desert his unit or Brothers to get out of serving and protecting Brother Soldiers who are also in harm's way and protecting you too.
You go to your command structure and tell them you can't hack it.....and wait.
Myself, I couldn't even imagine the thought.

We'll see how things wash out.

Onward.....

KeepItMoving
06-04-2014, 01:21 PM
I'm a pro-Christian atheist with a decent understanding of Christian theology. Tubby has a valid perspective. It is a liberal trait to try to understand things. That's why a majority of scientist are liberal. We like to think things through. It's kinda what we do.Congratulations on this extremely bigoted view.

Frnkd
06-04-2014, 01:29 PM
Yes, they did. Dan Rather even got fired for using falsified documents in a news story about it. It was in the news for months. There was talk of congressional hearings. How do you reconcile that with, "no one made a big deal about that?" Do you really not remember?

As far as this coming out after 5 years, do you think that, just maybe, forcing soldiers to sign a non- disclosure agreement may be the cause of the delay? Question his platoon mates motives all you want, but can you explain what you think a possible reason for all these people to come out and perjure themselves to discredit this guy might be? Can you give us some scenario that explains dozens and dozens of Soldiers making these claims might be? Is it a conspiracy?

I feel confident that, as you seem to have a habit like you did here, of making every conceivable subject somehow political that you assume that all these Soldiers and other servicemen are all lying to advance a political agenda. You may be surprised to know that most people do not live and breath politics, in fact, most people find you political whores quite boring.


Take a look around....who is making this political. Anyway i just threw that bush thing in there as a "tit" for "tat", oops....


Well until the US Army makes a determination as to motive, we can only assume. My assumption on motive? maybe there is a conspiracy. Creating prejudice by whatever means will distort whatever information BB himself will add to the pile of information we're hearing. Who knows what chain of events lead someone to do what they do. Only a formal inquiry I suppose will do the best at piecing the puzzle of an event that happened 5 years ago.

so-tex
06-04-2014, 01:34 PM
http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20140602/NEWS/306020055/Gold-Star-mom-guy-worth-my-son-s-life-

thomashenry
06-04-2014, 01:37 PM
Yes, I have. Are you offended that Islam and Christianity share the same roots and are remarkably similar in nature and beliefs (aside from the holy trinity)?

Share the same roots ? please explain ?

However before you do, I will give you just a few differences, by the fact that muhammed conversion in which "no one knows anything about", muhammed claims he went into a cave and had a religious experience in which allah revealed the koran to him, there were NO eyewitness to verify this, also muhammed made no public miraculous signs to certify it. And someone could have had ulterior motives in following him, islam in it`s earliest stages was spread by warfare, followers of muhammed gained political influence and power over villages that were conquered and "converted" to islam by the sword. The Bible was written over a 1500 year period by 40 vastly different Authors in regards to lifestyles, however they all have a unifying theme, mankind`s redemption from Sin by ONE man !


Contrast that with the claims of the early followers of Jesus, including Paul, they claimed to have seen public events that OTHERS saw as well, these were not things that happened {outside} their minds, not just in their MINDS. Mohammeds biography was not written till 762 A.D. a full century after his Death, which is another fact that separates the 2, Jesus and mohammed, Mo`s still dead and his body was buried in Medina, Jesus on the other hand, No dead BODY ! if there were, then No Christianity, BIG difference, huge.


Christianity & islam are vastly different, islam {denies the Resurrection & it can be found, the denial in the Koran} & the ENTIRE rise & movement and Promise of Christianity is based solely on the witnesses & Disciples of Christ witnessing, seeing with their own eyes his Resurrection, the Risen Christ, just as he claimed he would do. Then & only Then was the Gospel and his followers galvanized with a singular belief no matter who what or the circumstances, even in the face of death, preached the Good news & ignited a movement with the belief that through Jesus and no other, that anyone can have Redemption from Sin, Salvation, Eternal LIFE, Peace & Love, & it comes from nothing you or I can do to, in essence to earn it. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast"! It was Paid for by the innocent blood of Jesus, He took OUR place upon the Cross.



SO again tell me how they are similar and share similar tenet`s ?

so-tex
06-04-2014, 01:51 PM
From a Veteran's perspective.
http://www.iamatexan.com/blog/i-was-there-my-perspective-on-bowe-bergdahl/?utm_content=buffer1390b&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

KeepItMoving
06-04-2014, 02:19 PM
Michelle Malkin has written extensively about Begdahl, even going back to the time of his original disappearance/desertion 5 years ago. She has credited the military members who were there with him for her information. PS: You won't find her writings on NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, The New York Times, et. seq. FOX News interviews her, but they are too Conservative to be credible, right? LMFAO.

thomashenry
06-04-2014, 03:04 PM
In the case of the Sgt being released, I have my opinion, however when it comes to matters such as this, I learn from the Professionals who have & are still in the fight, I have learned to defer to them and their insight and the few in this Forum and other independent sources, in other words I don`t know squat about all the facts I learn and right now I will keep quiet !


Former Navy SEAL Marcus Luttrell doesn’t typically follow politics, joking that he prefers to see his enemy in front of him on the battlefield. But after the Obama administration released five senior Taliban leaders from the prison at Guantanamo Bay in exchange for the return of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, who was held captive by the Taliban for nearly five years, many have been asking for his insight.

The lone survivor of Operation Redwing in Afghanistan, Said Wednesday that the Taliban did all they could not only to kill him, but to “cut [his] head off.”

“They were doing everything they could to get to me to kill me,” he said.

“That’s the part that kind of got me off-guard, was the fact that they held him,” Luttrell continued, expressing surprise that Bergdahl was kept alive this long. “They don’t normally do that.”

Luttrell said he fought to the death each day, and when he left, there weren’t “any sweet goodbyes. … It was an all-out gunfight.”



Many of those who served with Bergdahl, or whose loved ones were killed searching for him, have spoken out since the exchange, labeling Bergdahl everything from a “deserter” to a “traitor.” They said he regularly expressed anti-American views, abandoned his post, and that there was a marked increase in strategic attacks after he left.

Luttrell said when he was being held by the Taliban, the thought “never even crossed [his] mind” that he would be freed because of a prisoner exchange, and he wouldn’t have wanted it.

“The thing that I held on to was that my teammates would come get me, or I was going to die out there, not turn over some of the guys that were responsible for some of the worst atrocities that we’ve seen so far,” he remarked.



.
Luttrell added that he’s spoken with a couple of buddies who were in Afghanistan at the time Bergdahl left, and they’re “pretty upset … that this went down the way it did.”

Asked about the VA scandal, Luttrell said he never speaks poorly of the president, but “it was a good job on the politicians, shucking off the VA scandal by doing the whole Bergdahl thing.”

“That provides plenty of top cover, even if it did backfire,” he added. “And releasing those [Taliban leaders] is a bad move.”

Luttrell said America is “playing with the dangerous end of the knife” with what we’ve done, saying those who believe the Taliban has been “eradicated” need to remember that organizations like the Taliban are built from the “top down, not from the bottom up.”

“So you put the brain trust in there and they recruit, build. The brains of the organization, that’s the dangerous part of it,” Luttrell said. “I can’t stress this enough – there’s going to be some bloodshed here in the future. You don’t get that passive, peaceful soul sitting in Gitmo.”

acrawlingchaos
06-04-2014, 03:26 PM
Interesting.... I'm curious to see if the soldiers that were gagged and still came forward will be punished for their crimes.

SP1966
06-04-2014, 04:11 PM
Interesting.... I'm curious to see if the soldiers that were gagged and still came forward will be punished for their crimes.

I read the non-disclosure was so nobody would say anything publicly that could put Bergdahl in jeopardy. Now that he's released the non-disclosure would likely be void. On the other hand how ironic and yet unsurprising would it be for those who've spoken to be charged while Bergdahl is treated like a returning hero?

Dave76
06-04-2014, 04:15 PM
I read the non-disclosure was so nobody would say anything publicly that could put Bergdahl in jeopardy. Now that he's released the non-disclosure would likely be void. On the other hand how ironic and yet unsurprising would it be for those who've spoken to be charged while Bergdahl is treated like a returning hero?
I've read the same thing. I don't know what the law says but if the White House wants a real public backlash on their hands, they'll round these guys up immediately. Benghazi, IRS, VA? What's that???

SP1966
06-04-2014, 04:16 PM
Take a look around....who is making this political. Anyway i just threw that bush thing in there as a "tit" for "tat", oops....


Well until the US Army makes a determination as to motive, we can only assume. My assumption on motive? maybe there is a conspiracy. Creating prejudice by whatever means will distort whatever information BB himself will add to the pile of information we're hearing. Who knows what chain of events lead someone to do what they do. Only a formal inquiry I suppose will do the best at piecing the puzzle of an event that happened 5 years ago.

Conspiracy? So you think those speaking out have something to hide that Bergdahl knows about is the reason for their discrediting him? I guess it's possible in the same way it's possible that the administration truly believed Benghazi was about a movie.

acrawlingchaos
06-04-2014, 04:30 PM
I read the non-disclosure was so nobody would say anything publicly that could put Bergdahl in jeopardy. Now that he's released the non-disclosure would likely be void. On the other hand how ironic and yet unsurprising would it be for those who've spoken to be charged while Bergdahl is treated like a returning hero?Again... not enough information.. but on the surface it would still be ironic. Regardless, if you were ordered not to speak, you were ordered not speak... and a gag order was indeed issued. There was no need for those soldiers to step forward at this point and time.

Link to info regarding disclosure agreement?


Conspiracy? So you think those speaking out have something to hide that Bergdahl knows about is the reason for their discrediting him? I guess it's possible in the same way it's possible that the administration truly believed Benghazi was about a movie.I may not believe it likely, but it is certainly plausible that there is a cover up.

If the government is willing to lie about the a myriad of other major recent events, they would certainly be willing to about this. Again... yes... this could very well be another cover-up, probably not.

SP1966
06-04-2014, 04:45 PM
Again... not enough information.. but on the surface it would still be ironic. Regardless, if you were ordered not to speak, you were ordered not speak... and a gag order was indeed issued. There was no need for those soldiers to step forward at this point and time.

They're no longer in the service so I'm guessing they have little to lose by speaking now, especially if the gag-order was purported to be for Bergdahl's safety while being held. Further, if what they've said is true then I'm sure seeing Bergdahl held up as some sort of hero while other service men were known to have lost their lives because of him would make staying silent very difficult for most.



Link to info regarding disclosure agreement?


I've read numerous articles and don't recall where I read about the non-disclosure. I just Googled it and there a about a half a billion links! LOL

JediRN
06-04-2014, 04:51 PM
Not all scientists are liberals and please don't condescend conservatives as people who only believe in fairy tales and who do not have the brain power to think things through.

Plenty of deep thinking insightful conservatives out there. I wish they would take the Republican party back.


Oddly enough, I'm a conservative Electrical Engineer. I, too, like to think things through. It's what I do. Including having done a lot of self study on Islam to try to understand their point of view.

He would have forgiven him. The same as he would do for anyone currently incarcerated for committing a crime.

Strong everything in this post.



Notice you went directly to the OT nicely done. Of course none of those are currently upheld by Judaism and if you'll notice the violence in the OT is overwhelmingly (the reference in Numbers aside and of course the Tabernacle is no more so it's a mute issue) PAST tense, in the Koran the violence is past, future, and present tense. The violence in the OT is parable, mythology with some historic events, the violence in the Koran are marching orders.

Big difference that cannot be brushed off as 'common roots'.

IMHO a lot of the Muslim extremist have very little to live for... so they find something to die for.


"Frozen Chosin" is a term that refers to the Marines that fought at, and around, the Chosin reservoir in Korea.

I did not know that. My first week at the VA as a Nurse I asked a patient where his toes were. He said, Korea... 1951. From that day on I've never complained about the cold.


.

'PTSD' issue?....BS.....

Every soldier that sees combat comes back wounded...one way or another. More research needs to be done on why some deal better with the mental trauma than others. I have a patient who to this day refights the Japanese every night when he goes to sleep. We put a sign on his bed that says "Do not touch to wake up" As he will, at 90 years old, wake up swinging... then feel really bad about it.


Congratulations on this extremely bigoted view.
I am, on balance very tolerant of the views of conservatives and Christians. I really need to mentally disassociate "conservatism" with how it is presented by Fox news.

Phattso
06-04-2014, 04:52 PM
There are not that many democrats in Congress who are supporting Bergdahl, as well as Republicans.

Susan Rice stating, "He served with honor and distinction," is beyond comprehension. Like water off a duck's back in manufactured denial.

SP1966
06-04-2014, 04:53 PM
I really need to mentally disassociate "conservatism" with how it is presented by MSNBCABCBS.

Fixed that for ya! :)

SP1966
06-04-2014, 04:55 PM
There are not that many democrats in Congress who are supporting Bergdahl, as well as Republicans.

Susan Rice stating, "He served with honor and distinction," is beyond comprehension. Like water off a duck's back in manufactured denial.

Even Jay Carney realized he'd become more Baghdad Bob than anything close to a press secretary. It's laughable that they continue to send Rice out on national television speaking such absurdities!

Phattso
06-04-2014, 05:00 PM
Even Jay Carney realized he'd become more Baghdad Bob than anything close to a press secretary. It's laughable that they continue to send Rice out on national television speaking such absurdities!

Yes, and now MSNBC tries desperately to change the subject by concentrating on racism. But, of course that has always been their MO. Distract and manufacture racism and new wars against women, minorities and midgets.

thomashenry
06-04-2014, 05:16 PM
Well that settles it, the complete spokes idiot for the administration has settled it :

Obama State Department Spokeswoman Marie Harf Suggests Fellow Soldiers Aren’t Reliable Sources on Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl

AN INSULT TOO FAR FROM THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION … BENGHAZI 2.0

There comes a point and time when enough is enough. That point was just reached with the Obama presidency.Yesterday, State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf indicated, while answering media questions in the wake of the ill-advised Taliban prison swap for Sgt. Bergdahl, that she did not think that fellow soldiers were not a reliable source on Bergdahl’s walking away from his military unit. WHAT!!! Did she just call those soldiers who have spoken out against Bergdahl and called him a deserter, liars? Has the Obama administration no shame?

State Department deputy spokeswoman Marie Harf engaged in a heated exchange Tuesday with a reporter over the circumstances surrounding Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl’s capture five years ago, saying she does not think his squad mates have the best idea of what happened when he disappeared.

When Fox News reporter Lucas Tomlinson asked, “Does the State Department consider Sergeant Bergdahl to be a deserter?” Harf replied, “The State Department — no, Lucas. Look, what we’ve said is we are going to learn the facts about what happened here.”

As if the economy and Obama’s handling of domestic issues was not bad enough over the past six years that has seen little to no recovery from the recession. Escalating federal debt out of control and a government takeover of the healthcare system that was never intended to provide care, but rather control. A foreign policy that has alienated our allies and emboldened our enemies. Scandals that has seen entities like the IRS purposely and willfully target Conservative organizations. Cover-ups in Benghazi where no one came to the aid of Americans in distress that left four Americans dead, including a US Ambassador. A VA scandal that this administration knew about and ran on in 2008, yet did nothing. Now the Obama administration swaps 5 Taliban GITMO detainees for some one who many believe was a deserter. Now they are calling fellow military soldiers liars. ENOUGH!

Watch the VIDEO below from The Kelly File, of the shameful actions of the State Department spokesperson and Lt. Col. Ralph Peters reaction just lambasting her and the administration.



Transcript from the Gateway Pundit:

FOX News reporter: Does the State Department consider Sgt. Bergdahl to be a deserter?

State Department spokesperson Marie Harf: No, Lucas, what we said is we are going to learn the facts on what happened here.

FOX News: According to those around him, his platoon-mates his squadron-mates said he walked off…

Harf: Lucas, some of them, there are conflicting reports out there about this.

FOX News: The guys on national television last night, his squad-mates, platoon-mates were not correct?

Harf: I’m saying we do not know the fact pattern yet. We don’t. Nobody knows exactly what happened that night.

FOX News: Well, I think that his squad-mates would have the best indication…

Harf: I don’t think that that’s the case.

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was heard to be whispering to herself, what difference does it make.

http://youtu.be/kQfyMndk4Ac

acrawlingchaos
06-04-2014, 05:26 PM
They're no longer in the service so I'm guessing they have little to lose by speaking now, especially if the gag-order was purported to be for Bergdahl's safety while being held. Further, if what they've said is true then I'm sure seeing Bergdahl held up as some sort of hero while other service men were known to have lost their lives because of him would make staying silent very difficult for most.I really hope Bergdalh speaks... but I don't think it will happen.




I've read numerous articles and don't recall where I read about the non-disclosure. I just Googled it and there a about a half a billion links! LOLYa, but only 2 of them are probably useful. Which 2 SP... which 2!!

SP1966
06-04-2014, 05:37 PM
Ya, but only 2 of them are probably useful. Which 2 SP... which 2!!

Probably the ones that link to breitbart.com and dailykos.com. ;)

Georgeoz
06-04-2014, 05:39 PM
It has apparently not occurred to all the "patriotic" commentary, that this matter may have been and be an intelligence operation. The essence of good fieldcraft is that nothing that you see is what is happening in reality. However, the beard and learning the language suggest something beyond the obvious.

Brackneyc
06-04-2014, 05:40 PM
It has apparently not occurred to all the "patriotic" commentary, that this matter may have been and be an intelligence operation. The essence of good fieldcraft is that nothing that you see is what is happening in reality. However, the beard and learning the language suggest something beyond the obvious.


Yeah, that's what it is. FFS.

SP1966
06-04-2014, 05:42 PM
When Fox News reporter Lucas Tomlinson asked, “Does the State Department consider Sergeant Bergdahl to be a deserter?” Harf replied, “The State Department — no, Lucas. Look, what we’ve said is we are going to learn the facts about what happened here.”


Translation: "We do not yet know what movie was shown that evening of Bergdahl's disappearance, when we do I think we'll understand who's to blame for Bergdahl's actions, though surely not Bergdahl himself."

SP1966
06-04-2014, 05:43 PM
It has apparently not occurred to all the "patriotic" commentary, that this matter may have been and be an intelligence operation. The essence of good fieldcraft is that nothing that you see is what is happening in reality. However, the beard and learning the language suggest something beyond the obvious.

"Just because you have a license to shave doesn't mean you should."

- Bond, James Bond

Old-Time-Lifter
06-04-2014, 06:10 PM
IMHO a lot of the Muslim extremist have very little to live for... so they find something to die for.

I'm not sure that is an accurate stereotype. Many are from well off families.

so-tex
06-04-2014, 06:18 PM
It has apparently not occurred to all the "patriotic" commentary, that this matter may have been and be an intelligence operation. The essence of good fieldcraft is that nothing that you see is what is happening in reality. However, the beard and learning the language suggest something beyond the obvious.Oh yeah, that's the ticket. Now we get this guy back that has 'intelligence' on the enemy, and we give them five killers, who will kill again in exchange. Seems legit.


I would love to play poker with this administration. I would make enough money to retire within an hour.

Phattso
06-04-2014, 06:27 PM
It has apparently not occurred to all the "patriotic" commentary, that this matter may have been and be an intelligence operation. The essence of good fieldcraft is that nothing that you see is what is happening in reality. However, the beard and learning the language suggest something beyond the obvious.

It is however apparent that you are a fool. That is the commentary.

JediRN
06-05-2014, 02:29 AM
I'm not sure that is an accurate stereotype. Many are from well off families.

True...and good point. And my point is not relavent anyway. It doesn't matter who or why someone attacks us, they have to be dealt with harshly in return.

Phattso
06-05-2014, 06:53 AM
Senators from both sides of the aisle are angry at the WH for the lopsided swap. But, idiots like Chris Matthews go full potato defending the swap.

I am not saying we should have left him there. Just saying that there should have been better negotiations. Since it was such a poor lopsided trade, that is why the WH possibly broke the law in not informing Congress.

TubbyDad
06-05-2014, 07:00 AM
It has apparently not occurred to all the "patriotic" commentary, that this matter may have been and be an intelligence operation. The essence of good fieldcraft is that nothing that you see is what is happening in reality. However, the beard and learning the language suggest something beyond the obvious.

The only person that would sign up to be put in Bergdahl's current predicament under the pretense of an intelligence op is someone who has already made irreconcilable infractions against the country. Nobody is going to voluntarily pose as a deserter who is responsible for half a dozen deaths of other soldiers unless the alternative is much worse. The only instance where that would be viable is if none of this fanfare was made public (I'm confident that we do, in fact, have cells implanted in the Taliban, but you will never see them being traded for gitmo detainees).

JediRN
06-05-2014, 08:10 AM
Senators from both sides of the aisle are angry at the WH for the lopsided swap. But, idiots like Chris Matthews go full potato defending the swap.

I am saying we should have left him there. Just saying that there should have been better negotiations. Since it was such a poor lopsided trade, that is why the WH possibly broke the law in not informing Congress.

I dunno if it was a fair trade or not How many terrorist=1 American soldier. I also do think that this is going to lead to the Taliban capturing more soldiers for trades in the future for the single reason that I think the Taliban has already been trying as hard as they could to capture or kill our soldiers. According to my logic, the combat soldiers in Afghanistan are already under as much threat as the Taliban can muster. I don't think Taliban will try harder to get more American soldiers because they are already trying as hard as they can. Their objectives haven't changed.


The only person that would sign up to be put in Bergdahl's current predicament under the pretense of an intelligence op is someone who has already made irreconcilable infractions against the country. Nobody is going to voluntarily pose as a deserter who is responsible for half a dozen deaths of other soldiers unless the alternative is much worse. The only instance where that would be viable is if none of this fanfare was made public (I'm confident that we do, in fact, have cells implanted in the Taliban, but you will never see them being traded for gitmo detainees).

I have a hard time thinking it was an Intel operations... and if it were we will never be told that. I think something had to have mentally snapped. He went out into the desert in an area where he knew he would be a target and did so unarmed. Sounds like "Suicide by Taliban" to me.

But like ACC, before I say anything definitive, I would like more time for the facts to come out. My first gut feeling is that he wanted to die. I'm fairly certain that he will try again, and succeed when he gets back home.

TubbyDad
06-05-2014, 08:44 AM
But like ACC, before I say anything definitive, I would like more time for the facts to come out. My first gut feeling is that he wanted to die. I'm fairly certain that he will try again, and succeed when he gets back home.

I'd be amazed if he stays in the US. Even if it turns out that the entire thing was a psychotic break, he has already been labeled a traitor and a deserter by guys that served along side him, and too many people will never hear anything different. If it was me, I'd feel like I had crosshairs on my back all the time.

Phattso
06-05-2014, 08:51 AM
Senators from both sides of the aisle are angry at the WH for the lopsided swap. But, idiots like Chris Matthews go full potato defending the swap.

I am not saying we should have left him there. Just saying that there should have been better negotiations. Since it was such a poor lopsided trade, that is why the WH possibly broke the law in not informing Congress.

I edited the above to: "I am not saying we should have left him there."

SP1966
06-05-2014, 08:53 AM
Senators from both sides of the aisle are angry at the WH for the lopsided swap. But, idiots like Chris Matthews go full potato defending the swap.

I am saying we should have left him there. Just saying that there should have been better negotiations. Since it was such a poor lopsided trade, that is why the WH possibly broke the law in not informing Congress.

From what I've seen Mathews is pretty pissed off about the swap too! He went of on little Chucky Todd for calling the negativity towards Bergdahl "Swiftboating" saying that the accusations have merit. Every now and then even Mathews strays from the plantation.

Phattso
06-05-2014, 10:43 AM
From what I've seen Mathews is pretty pissed off about the swap too! He went of on little Chucky Todd for calling the negativity towards Bergdahl "Swiftboating" saying that the accusations have merit. Every now and then even Mathews strays from the plantation.

Lol, and when he does stray, it is extremely surprising.

Fishman15
06-05-2014, 12:48 PM
It has apparently not occurred to all the "patriotic" commentary, that this matter may have been and be an intelligence operation. The essence of good fieldcraft is that nothing that you see is what is happening in reality. However, the beard and learning the language suggest something beyond the obvious.

Ohhhhhhh pulllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.. .........:rolleyes:

Fishman15
06-05-2014, 12:50 PM
I'm not sure that is an accurate stereotype. Many are from well off families.

like bin laden himself...

Old-Time-Lifter
06-05-2014, 04:23 PM
http://www.examiner.com/article/army-bergdahl-walked-away-responsible-for-op-vulnerable-to-a-fierce-attack

More fall-out from this whole mess....

SP1966
06-05-2014, 08:45 PM
Sooooo, they were bound by law to give congress 30 days notice before releasing prisoners from GITMO and they did not. Earlier in the week they apologized for the "oversight". Now according to the AP, Obumbles and crew are claiming the reason they didn't give the 30 days notice was because the Taliban said they would kill Bergdahl if the negotiations leaked.

My question, is there not a single grown up in Obumbles administration (I know, ironic that I'm asking about grown ups while calling names! :)) who could have said "You know, we've already made the claim that it was an oversight, we're gonna look really f'cking amateur if now we claim they threatened to kill him if we leaked. Because hey, isn't that the kind of thing we would have known about prior to pretending that our total disregard for the law was an oversight?".

With the passing of each day Jimmy Carter's place as only the second worst President ever becomes unquestionable.

I'm thinking maybe I should just move to Canada, but then I think if I do that we'll go and elect a Republican in 2016 and then Alec Baldwin just may follow through on his threat and move there too.

Old-Time-Lifter
06-05-2014, 10:10 PM
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/06/05/hes-not-hero-6-bowe-bergdahls-platoon-members-speak-out

SP1966
06-05-2014, 10:18 PM
The latest rumor is that we not only released five top Taliban leaders but also gave them $5M! If true "here are your leaders, and here is a little something to kick off your next mission"!

The1973
06-05-2014, 10:29 PM
The latest rumor is that we not only released five top Taliban leaders but also gave them $5M! If true "here are your leaders, and here is a little something to kick off your next mission"!

Conservatives always use rumors. Idiots.

The1973
06-05-2014, 10:29 PM
It is however apparent that you are a fool. That is the commentary.

Look in the ****ing mirror.

The1973
06-05-2014, 10:31 PM
Well that settles it, the complete spokes idiot for the administration has settled it :

Obama State Department Spokeswoman Marie Harf Suggests Fellow Soldiers Aren’t Reliable Sources on Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl

AN INSULT TOO FAR FROM THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION … BENGHAZI 2.0

There comes a point and time when enough is enough. That point was just reached with the Obama presidency.Yesterday, State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf indicated, while answering media questions in the wake of the ill-advised Taliban prison swap for Sgt. Bergdahl, that she did not think that fellow soldiers were not a reliable source on Bergdahl’s walking away from his military unit. WHAT!!! Did she just call those soldiers who have spoken out against Bergdahl and called him a deserter, liars? Has the Obama administration no shame?

State Department deputy spokeswoman Marie Harf engaged in a heated exchange Tuesday with a reporter over the circumstances surrounding Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl’s capture five years ago, saying she does not think his squad mates have the best idea of what happened when he disappeared.

When Fox News reporter Lucas Tomlinson asked, “Does the State Department consider Sergeant Bergdahl to be a deserter?” Harf replied, “The State Department — no, Lucas. Look, what we’ve said is we are going to learn the facts about what happened here.”

As if the economy and Obama’s handling of domestic issues was not bad enough over the past six years that has seen little to no recovery from the recession. Escalating federal debt out of control and a government takeover of the healthcare system that was never intended to provide care, but rather control. A foreign policy that has alienated our allies and emboldened our enemies. Scandals that has seen entities like the IRS purposely and willfully target Conservative organizations. Cover-ups in Benghazi where no one came to the aid of Americans in distress that left four Americans dead, including a US Ambassador. A VA scandal that this administration knew about and ran on in 2008, yet did nothing. Now the Obama administration swaps 5 Taliban GITMO detainees for some one who many believe was a deserter. Now they are calling fellow military soldiers liars. ENOUGH!

Watch the VIDEO below from The Kelly File, of the shameful actions of the State Department spokesperson and Lt. Col. Ralph Peters reaction just lambasting her and the administration.



Transcript from the Gateway Pundit:

FOX News reporter: Does the State Department consider Sgt. Bergdahl to be a deserter?

State Department spokesperson Marie Harf: No, Lucas, what we said is we are going to learn the facts on what happened here.

FOX News: According to those around him, his platoon-mates his squadron-mates said he walked off…

Harf: Lucas, some of them, there are conflicting reports out there about this.

FOX News: The guys on national television last night, his squad-mates, platoon-mates were not correct?

Harf: I’m saying we do not know the fact pattern yet. We don’t. Nobody knows exactly what happened that night.

FOX News: Well, I think that his squad-mates would have the best indication…

Harf: I don’t think that that’s the case.

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was heard to be whispering to herself, what difference does it make.



You are an insult to humans.

The1973
06-05-2014, 10:37 PM
Sooooo, they were bound by law to give congress 30 days notice before releasing prisoners from GITMO and they did not. Earlier in the week they apologized for the "oversight". Now according to the AP, Obumbles and crew are claiming the reason they didn't give the 30 days notice was because the Taliban said they would kill Bergdahl if the negotiations leaked.

My question, is there not a single grown up in Obumbles administration (I know, ironic that I'm asking about grown ups while calling names! :)) who could have said "You know, we've already made the claim that it was an oversight, we're gonna look really f'cking amateur if now we claim they threatened to kill him if we leaked. Because hey, isn't that the kind of thing we would have known about prior to pretending that our total disregard for the law was an oversight?".

With the passing of each day Jimmy Carter's place as only the second worst President ever becomes unquestionable.

I'm thinking maybe I should just move to Canada, but then I think if I do that we'll go and elect a Republican in 2016 and then Alec Baldwin just may follow through on his threat and move there too.

How much crap can you say in one day?

Old-Time-Lifter
06-05-2014, 10:40 PM
How much crap can you say in one day?

You've been reported....

The1973
06-05-2014, 10:41 PM
I'd be amazed if he stays in the US. Even if it turns out that the entire thing was a psychotic break, he has already been labeled a traitor and a deserter by guys that served along side him, and too many people will never hear anything different. If it was me, I'd feel like I had crosshairs on my back all the time.

It was a psychotic break but conservatives don't give a damn. They've defused mental hospitals.

The1973
06-05-2014, 10:43 PM
You've been reported....

So have you. Your posts go way beyond lunacy.

Old-Time-Lifter
06-05-2014, 10:44 PM
So have you. Your posts go way beyond lunacy.

That's not a banning offense though. Have a great evening. :D

Fishman15
06-05-2014, 11:09 PM
You are an insult to humans.

But you are not human...you are very red however...

deadwoodgregg
06-05-2014, 11:18 PM
The latest rumor is that we not only released five top Taliban leaders but also gave them $5M!If that is true, would it really surprise anyone at this point?

jeffaus
06-06-2014, 12:01 AM
So have you. Your posts go way beyond lunacy.LOL at the troll. Im trying to work out what your other account name is. You know, the real account before you went to banned camp and came back in under this account. Care to help me out?

The1973
06-06-2014, 05:43 AM
But you are not human...you are very red however...

You are a liar.

Old-Time-Lifter
06-06-2014, 06:45 AM
I only regret that I cannot neg the troll again... it's not fair I tell you.

;)

Phattso
06-06-2014, 06:54 AM
It was a psychotic break but conservatives don't give a damn. They've defused mental hospitals.

The mentally disturbed and ill boy has returned.

The1973
06-06-2014, 06:56 AM
Troll - anybody who disagrees with your political opinion.

JediRN
06-06-2014, 07:17 AM
The mentally disturbed and ill boy has returned.

Did you forget the part that he is an American soldier or is that not important anymore?

... and the facts have yet to come out. Perhaps he was mentally disturbed (or is now)... or perhaps he was a traitor that should be court marshaled and shot... or perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the huge spectrum between those opposite poles.

Dave76
06-06-2014, 07:41 AM
JediRN, the post you quoted was directed at the troll, not Bergdahl.

I agree with your point, though.

I also agree with the comment about the troll.

Phattso
06-06-2014, 07:47 AM
Did you forget the part that he is an American soldier or is that not important anymore?

... and the facts have yet to come out. Perhaps he was mentally disturbed (or is now)... or perhaps he was a traitor that should be court marshaled and shot... or perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the huge spectrum between those opposite poles.

You mean that "The 1973" was a soldier? How do you know that? Part of your scientific wizardry?

JediRN
06-06-2014, 07:54 AM
You mean that "The 1973" was a soldier? How do you know that? Part of your scientific wizardry?

Oh, I don't know who 1973 is or that he had ever left.

Actually, I thought you were trolling, your post seemed odd in the context of talking about Bergdahl. Since you didn't quote I didn't know you were talking about him.

my bad.... carry on.

deadwoodgregg
06-06-2014, 07:56 AM
You mean that "The 1973" was a soldier? How do you know that? Part of your scientific wizardry?http://i.imgflip.com/9dmz9.jpg

Phattso
06-06-2014, 07:58 AM
Oh, I don't know who 1973 is or that he had ever left.

Actually, I thought you were trolling, your post seemed odd in the context of talking about Bergdahl. Since you didn't quote I didn't know you were talking about him.

my bad.... carry on.

No problem. But, to be clear, my comment was about the troll. Not about Bergdahl. Thanks.

JediRN
06-06-2014, 08:01 AM
http://i.imgflip.com/9dmz9.jpg

Look Mom... I'm an interweb meme.... and you said I'd never amount to anything.

superman713
06-07-2014, 02:43 PM
"I suspect (ie my opinion) is that Bergdahl was a crazy, mixed up, idealistic kid who made a stupid decision. If that's the case, I'd agree that he's been punished enough for the stupidity. Along with a dishonorable discharge."


I wholeheartedly disagree! Whatever his reasoning was, he still committed the act of desertion. This statement alludes to the belief that if a child is raped and the dad got a hold of the rapist and beats him half to death, that he has been punished enough. If he is guilty, and by all accounts I have seen, he is.., Then he needs to face the consequences of his actions. A court martial and a military tribunal need to look at this objectively and sort out the facts. Question the ones that were closest to the event at the time it occurred. A bunch of politicians that were not "boots on the ground" with first hand accountability are just back ground noise and need to be filtered out.

Fishman15
06-07-2014, 07:49 PM
"I suspect (ie my opinion) is that Bergdahl was a crazy, mixed up, idealistic kid who made a stupid decision. If that's the case, I'd agree that he's been punished enough for the stupidity. Along with a dishonorable discharge."


I wholeheartedly disagree! Whatever his reasoning was, he still committed the act of desertion. This statement alludes to the belief that if a child is raped and the dad got a hold of the rapist and beats him half to death, that he has been punished enough. If he is guilty, and by all accounts I have seen, he is.., Then he needs to face the consequences of his actions. A court martial and a military tribunal need to look at this objectively and sort out the facts. Question the ones that were closest to the event at the time it occurred. A bunch of politicians that were not "boots on the ground" with first hand accountability are just back ground noise and need to be filtered out.

Solid answer...

pvsampson
06-07-2014, 08:46 PM
It has apparently not occurred to all the "patriotic" commentary, that this matter may have been and be an intelligence operation. The essence of good fieldcraft is that nothing that you see is what is happening in reality. However, the beard and learning the language suggest something beyond the obvious.


Yeah, that's what it is. FFS.


"Just because you have a license to shave doesn't mean you should."

- Bond, James Bond


Oh yeah, that's the ticket. Now we get this guy back that has 'intelligence' on the enemy, and we give them five killers, who will kill again in exchange. Seems legit.


I would love to play poker with this administration. I would make enough money to retire within an hour.


It is however apparent that you are a fool. That is the commentary.


Ohhhhhhh pulllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.. .........:rolleyes:

LOL. George was a politician for many years,according to his own statements some time ago.

If I remember correctly,I called him an idiot once and it was not received well,but I feel better now.

Fishman15
06-07-2014, 09:01 PM
LOL. George was a politician for many years,according to his own statements some time ago.

If I remember correctly,I called him an idiot once and it was not received well,but I feel better now.

A politician??? Hmmm...sounds about right

pvsampson
06-07-2014, 09:24 PM
A politician??? Hmmm...sounds about right

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=156780403&p=1130870973&viewfull=1#post1130870973

"After more than 50 years in the business of government and the government of business, in Canberra,"

footballopo
06-08-2014, 05:49 AM
Would it make you hyper conservatives feel better if Bergdahl, his parents and some others in his hometown get shot at? Is that the America we live in?


How about former president Bush? It was reported he would have done the same thing as Obama. Oh yeah, Bush is a Republican in name only and not a true conservative. I thought you conservatives supported our troops or did you really mean just our conservative troops all along?


How many of you could have held up in 5 years of captivity? It's very easy to say you could on the internet but you've never been through Taliban torture.

GuyJin
06-08-2014, 06:26 AM
How many of you could have held up in 5 years of captivity? It's very easy to say you could on the internet but you've never been through Taliban torture.
---

I've read your posts. Right now, it's a toss-up which group is more noxious, the terrorists or the self-righteous punks who castigate others for thinking the way they do.

FWIW, trolly, I'm not with the right-wing conservative group and dislike many of their policies. However, according to all reports, Bergdahl deserted. Maybe he wanted to commit suicide by Taliban, had a case of PTSD, or just wanted to go over to another side. This will come out in a military tribunal, if there is one. But he deserted and by doing so, put lives in danger. And more lives were lost trying to find him. So while it pains a pathetic little dweeb like you that the 'Murican soldiers were blowing sh!t up in Afghanistan, their sacrifice allows you to post drivel. Think about that during your banishment, dipstick.

footballopo
06-08-2014, 06:38 AM
---

I've read your posts. Right now, it's a toss-up which group is more noxious, the terrorists or the self-righteous punks who castigate others for thinking the way they do.

FWIW, trolly, I'm not with the right-wing conservative group and dislike many of their policies. However, according to all reports, Bergdahl deserted. Maybe he wanted to commit suicide by Taliban, had a case of PTSD, or just wanted to go over to another side. This will come out in a military tribunal, if there is one. But he deserted and by doing so, put lives in danger. And more lives were lost trying to find him. So while it pains a pathetic little dweeb like you that the 'Murican soldiers were blowing sh!t up in Afghanistan, their sacrifice allows you to post drivel. Think about that during your banishment, dipstick.

You name call just like them. How are you all going to react when he is tried and the judge says he did desert but 5 years of torture under Taliban captivity is enough? Are the conservatives going to riot?

Why would the military commanders have troops risk their lives looking for him if they know he deserted? Are the lives lost really related to the search for him? These questions are not answered yet. There will be a trial where I sincerely wish they do get answered.

One things certain, Bergdahl will never truly be free and wouldn't last 60 days before an angry nut shoots at him. Conservatives rather than our court system have become judge and jury. America.

GuyJin
06-08-2014, 06:54 AM
You name call just like them. How are you all going to react when he is tried and the judge says he did desert but 5 years of torture under Taliban captivity is enough? Are the conservatives going to riot?

Why would the military commanders have troops risk their lives looking for him if they know he deserted? Are the lives lost really related to the search for him? These questions are not answered yet. There will be a trial where I sincerely wish they do get answered.

One things certain, Bergdahl will never truly be free and wouldn't last 60 days before an angry nut shoots at him. Conservatives rather than our court system have become judge and jury. America.
---

Your basement must get great reception.

:D

BBBsupporter
06-08-2014, 12:59 PM
His ugly ar$e father to cut his hair and shave that scraggly excuse of a beard. Everytime I see a picture of him it just grates on me.

For crying out loud you're on National TV try not to look like they just woke you up in the gutter and they hosed you off and put a clean shirt and pants on ya.

Bowe Bergdahl is a war hero.

Phattso
06-08-2014, 01:26 PM
You name call just like them. How are you all going to react when he is tried and the judge says he did desert but 5 years of torture under Taliban captivity is enough? Are the conservatives going to riot?

Why would the military commanders have troops risk their lives looking for him if they know he deserted? Are the lives lost really related to the search for him? These questions are not answered yet. There will be a trial where I sincerely wish they do get answered.

One things certain, Bergdahl will never truly be free and wouldn't last 60 days before an angry nut shoots at him. Conservatives rather than our court system have become judge and jury. America.


Bowe Bergdahl is a war hero.

The Angry Anarchist Troll :)

The1973
06-14-2014, 06:28 AM
His ugly ar$e father to cut his hair and shave that scraggly excuse of a beard. Everytime I see a picture of him it just grates on me.

For crying out loud you're on National TV try not to look like they just woke you up in the gutter and they hosed you off and put a clean shirt and pants on ya.
You're a piece of garbage.

The1973
06-14-2014, 06:29 AM
But you are not human...you are very red however...

You're a piece of garbage.

The1973
06-14-2014, 06:30 AM
The mentally disturbed and ill boy has returned.

You're a piece of garbage.

The1973
06-14-2014, 06:31 AM
The latest rumor is that we not only released five top Taliban leaders but also gave them $5M! If true "here are your leaders, and here is a little something to kick off your next mission"!

You're a piece of garbage.

The1973
06-14-2014, 06:34 AM
Maybe the Muslim beard is to show how proud he is of his son.
Based on what I've seen thus far this whole situation is appalling to me.

Awaiting further info which I'm sure will piss me off.

Carry on....
You're a piece of garbage.

The1973
06-14-2014, 06:40 AM
Well that settles it, the complete spokes idiot for the administration has settled it :

Obama State Department Spokeswoman Marie Harf Suggests Fellow Soldiers Aren’t Reliable Sources on Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl

AN INSULT TOO FAR FROM THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION … BENGHAZI 2.0

There comes a point and time when enough is enough. That point was just reached with the Obama presidency.Yesterday, State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf indicated, while answering media questions in the wake of the ill-advised Taliban prison swap for Sgt. Bergdahl, that she did not think that fellow soldiers were not a reliable source on Bergdahl’s walking away from his military unit. WHAT!!! Did she just call those soldiers who have spoken out against Bergdahl and called him a deserter, liars? Has the Obama administration no shame?

State Department deputy spokeswoman Marie Harf engaged in a heated exchange Tuesday with a reporter over the circumstances surrounding Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl’s capture five years ago, saying she does not think his squad mates have the best idea of what happened when he disappeared.

When Fox News reporter Lucas Tomlinson asked, “Does the State Department consider Sergeant Bergdahl to be a deserter?” Harf replied, “The State Department — no, Lucas. Look, what we’ve said is we are going to learn the facts about what happened here.”

As if the economy and Obama’s handling of domestic issues was not bad enough over the past six years that has seen little to no recovery from the recession. Escalating federal debt out of control and a government takeover of the healthcare system that was never intended to provide care, but rather control. A foreign policy that has alienated our allies and emboldened our enemies. Scandals that has seen entities like the IRS purposely and willfully target Conservative organizations. Cover-ups in Benghazi where no one came to the aid of Americans in distress that left four Americans dead, including a US Ambassador. A VA scandal that this administration knew about and ran on in 2008, yet did nothing. Now the Obama administration swaps 5 Taliban GITMO detainees for some one who many believe was a deserter. Now they are calling fellow military soldiers liars. ENOUGH!

Watch the VIDEO below from The Kelly File, of the shameful actions of the State Department spokesperson and Lt. Col. Ralph Peters reaction just lambasting her and the administration.



Transcript from the Gateway Pundit:

FOX News reporter: Does the State Department consider Sgt. Bergdahl to be a deserter?

State Department spokesperson Marie Harf: No, Lucas, what we said is we are going to learn the facts on what happened here.

FOX News: According to those around him, his platoon-mates his squadron-mates said he walked off…

Harf: Lucas, some of them, there are conflicting reports out there about this.

FOX News: The guys on national television last night, his squad-mates, platoon-mates were not correct?

Harf: I’m saying we do not know the fact pattern yet. We don’t. Nobody knows exactly what happened that night.

FOX News: Well, I think that his squad-mates would have the best indication…

Harf: I don’t think that that’s the case.

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was heard to be whispering to herself, what difference does it make.



You're a piece of garbage.

Old-Time-Lifter
06-14-2014, 09:51 AM
You're a piece of garbage.

And you are banned.... oh well :p

Wayne Evans
06-14-2014, 10:42 AM
And you are banned.... oh well :p

Shvt....I could be wrong but it seems like the same person is going to much effort over many weeks just to create all these posts to insult/name call and be a forum hemorrhoid.
I don't get it but I'm sure he's keeping the mods busy.

Back to topic...hopefully.

Old-Time-Lifter
06-14-2014, 10:55 AM
Shvt....I could be wrong but it seems like the same person is going to much effort over many weeks just to create all these posts to insult/name call and be a forum hemorrhoid.
I don't get it but I'm sure he's keeping the mods busy.

Back to topic...hopefully.

Yeah, I suspect it's rubberpiggy who some here believe to be a regular member using troll accounts. I won't say who was suspected as I'd likely get banned.

Fishman15
06-14-2014, 05:36 PM
You're a piece of garbage.

Ohhh '73, we had such high hopes for you...