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thomashenry
05-27-2014, 09:15 AM
You won’t believe how this homeless man was treated right outside of a church… what happened next will humble you.







A Pastor transformed himself into a homeless person and went to the 10,000-member church that he was to be introduced as the head pastor at that morning. He walked around his soon to be church for 30 minutes while it was filling with people for service, only 3 people out of the 7-10,000 people said hello to him. He asked people for change to buy food – no one in the church gave him change.







He went into the sanctuary to sit down in the front of the church and was asked by the ushers if he would please sit in the back. He greeted people to be greeted back with stares, dirty looks, and people looking down on him. As he sat in the back of the church, he listened to the church announcements and such. When all that was done, the elders went up and were excited to introduce the new pastor of the church to the congregation. “We would like to introduce to you our new Pastor.” The congregation looked around clapping with joy and anticipation. The homeless man sitting in the back stood up and started walking down the aisle. The clapping stopped with all eyes on him. He walked up the altar and took the microphone from the elders (who were in on this) and paused for a moment then he recited,



“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.





“For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’





“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ ‘The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.”





After he recited this, he looked towards the congregation and told them all what he had experienced that morning. Many began to cry, and many heads were bowed in shame. He then said, “Today I see a gathering of people, not a church of Jesus Christ. The world has enough people, but not enough disciples. When will YOU decide to become disciples?” He then dismissed service until next week.





Following in the footsteps of Jesus Christ should be more than just talk. It ought to be a lifestyle that others around you can love about you and share in.” Be a Christian all you want, but at least follow the teachings of Christ if you’re going to claim the title.





Matthew 25:35-45

skel1977
05-27-2014, 09:19 AM
fist time i ever realized there was a 35 misc. Anyways its sad how the world treats our most vulnerable and in need citizens.

bustasinclair
05-27-2014, 09:27 AM
Really?

If I was forced to give .50 cents to every homeless person I have ever encountered, I'd be homeless myself.

A church isn't a place to 'beg' or freeload. Quite honestly, with all of the people who play on others' emotions for a living, whether they be homeless or not, you can't go around trying to save the world all the time trusting that they are just unfortunate and truly in need.

I donate to my charities and that's where I draw the line.

I don't normally contribute in these 'holier than thou' type threads, but I just had to say my piece.

skel1977
05-27-2014, 09:36 AM
I dont really give money to beggers either. To afraid they will just buy heroin or alcohol with it. But there was a guy who went undercover as a homeless person with a hidden camera. No one would even make eye contact with him, maybe afraid he would ask for money?

Cass40
05-27-2014, 09:45 AM
I don't think anyone should be made feel guilty if they don't want to give money to homeless people..
However, the point was that the homeless person wasn't acknowledged. I always say hello to a person, and many times have conversations with them.
Yesterday I was walking back from the gym, and there was a guy pushing his cart walking in the same direction than me. I guess he saw me looking at him, so he started talking to me.
He talked normally about regular stuff, like anyone, he didn't seem to be high or anything.
Of course, I would be scared if they were high on grugs, acting weird, or talking to themselves etc.
But I would never intentionally ignore anyone without a reason.

Oh, and just to add that me trying to treat everyone equally has nothing to do with church or religion. It's just what I believe regardless of religion..

steffo99
05-27-2014, 12:04 PM
He gave them something to think about there. :D

The beggars we have where I live are pretty much all females from Romania or some other eastern european countries.
One is placed outside every supermarket I been recently. I feel bad for them but don't give any money cause it just goes to
the criminal gangs who brought them here on a massive scale. I donate things like warm winter clothes instead.

Cass40
05-27-2014, 12:16 PM
If you're a funny homeless person, you can work simultaneously as a comedian!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Panhandler_ransom.jpg

Karl_Hungus
05-27-2014, 12:37 PM
I don't think anyone should be made feel guilty if they don't want to give money to homeless people..
However, the point was that the homeless person wasn't acknowledged. I always say hello to a person, and many times have conversations with them.


^^ This. I WOULD give money to a homeless person if I was convinced they would use it on food -- But, I think most of the time, they use it to buy booze/drugs. I tested that theory once when a homeless guy asked me for money so he could "feed his family". So, I went and bought him some food, gave it to him, and he repaid me by calling me an @sshole for not giving him the money instead. So, no, I generally will not give money to a homeless person.

I do sometimes break this rule. One time I was coming out of the store, and a homeless guy was asked me for money to buy food. Something seemed different about this guy ... he seemed genuinely sad. I told him I didn't have any change, but I would go to my car and get him some. He said "Ok thanks", but did it in a way that suggested he knew I was just going to drive off. I went back to my car, got $5 out of the console and gave it to him. The guy shook my hand and nearly started crying. Apparently, nobody had shown him any kindness in a while, so he was really moved by it.

To be honest though - I never really regret giving to somebody and later finding out that I have been scammed (it has happened a couple of times) -- but I DO regret those times that I believe somebody genuinely needed help and I turned them down.

Old-Time-Lifter
05-27-2014, 12:45 PM
A friend of mine (who is a Pastor) ran into two homeless guys one time and didn't have any cash on him. So he sat down and started visiting with them and ultimately he brought them both home (and he had a kid and a preggers wife at the time) he let them live in his basement for about two weeks finding the one guy a job and the same guy ended up joining his church. The other guy went back out on the street he didn't actually want a job.

Oceanside
05-27-2014, 01:28 PM
I hand out a couple bux somewhat frequently for selfish reasons...

I assume they'll use it for for food but at the same time I try not to judge whether or not they will....

no skin off my ass if whoever spends it on a couple beers or drugs...

I think it defeats the purpose of Generosity if you donate with expectations :)

eomrat
05-27-2014, 02:00 PM
I am prone to giving money to street people. I really don't care too much if they buy booze or dope. Strangely though, I once gave a lady $5 and then watched her spend it on lottery tickets. That aggravated the crap out of me.

The truth is that if I give money to 7 people that are shytheads, and one person that is truly needy and vulnerable, then at the end of the day, the one needy person got a little something and that is all that matters.

ironwill2008
05-27-2014, 04:45 PM
To be honest though - I never really regret giving to somebody and later finding out that I have been scammed (it has happened a couple of times) -- but I DO regret those times that I believe somebody genuinely needed help and I turned them down.





I think it defeats the purpose of Generosity if you donate with expectations :)




The truth is that if I give money to 7 people that are shytheads, and one person that is truly needy and vulnerable, then at the end of the day, the one needy person got a little something and that is all that matters.

^^^^ These.


This world is a harsh place. We're each making it either better or worse.

Cass40
05-27-2014, 07:29 PM
I grew up in AA, and they always had these summer cottages and places all over the country. Usually they would have a some kind of voluntary collection pot of sorts, where you could donate whatever you could for the common good.
Anyways, once in a while there would be someone who "fell of the track" and stole all the money, cause they needed money for alcohol.
Nobody ever really cared about that too much. The person was always welcomed back whenever he tried to get sober again. I think it was because the alcoholics can relate to someone who needs money for booze. They all had been there once, and they knew that the person has to want to stop drinking.
That's probably why, usually the poorest and homeless themselves, are willing to give money to their "peers". They can relate.
I, on the other hand, will not give money to someone who's going to buy drugs. I just can't do it.

latebloomingmom
05-27-2014, 07:42 PM
I am so glad you posted this..I was just talking to my oldest son about this over Easter :)

ajdahlheimer
05-27-2014, 07:44 PM
http://cdn.smosh.com/sites/default/files/ftpuploads/bloguploads/0813/sick-southpark-homeless-guy.gif

mrmr200
05-27-2014, 07:47 PM
cool story

Cass40
05-27-2014, 07:47 PM
There was a thread in the Misc about people taking "selfies" with homeless people.

It made me cry.

cowboybiker
05-27-2014, 07:50 PM
I dont give because I have much.

I give cause I know what its like to have nothing.

Cass40
05-27-2014, 07:55 PM
This reminds me..I was in a super market the other day and forgot my credit card. The lady behind me insisted on paying for my groceries. I didn't let her do that, cause I didn't really need anything.

I thought it was so odd (I mean sweet but odd), but I think people really are struggling nowadays, and there are people who don't have enough money to buy food. And as I discovered, also angels willing to help out!

cowboybiker
05-27-2014, 08:00 PM
I tried buying coffee in the drive thru at Starbucks for the car behind me.

Then I realized, if they can afford 5 bucks for a coffee, their probably not hurting.

ArchAngel'73
05-27-2014, 08:03 PM
Screw that.

If you're homeless it's probably because you chose drugs/booze over rent money and a job.
I worked for social services for over a decade and everyone of these mutherphuckers made a choice/choices to get them there.

I'm tired of trying be blamed or be made felt guilty over someone's else's problems that they willingly invite onto themselves.

My God don't buy that sh*t.


Furthermore, wtf is the pastor playing Jesus for?
Imo, that's the greatest insult of them all.

latebloomingmom
05-27-2014, 08:08 PM
"there but for the Grace of God go I"

was it your job to save? or only show the way?

free will baby

cowboybiker
05-27-2014, 08:15 PM
When people say WWJD.

Keep in mind that flipping tables and chasing someone with a whip is within the realm of possibilities.

latebloomingmom
05-27-2014, 08:19 PM
oooooooh man I have been so close to being like Jesus and didnt even know it :D

Cass40
05-27-2014, 08:28 PM
Furthermore, wtf is the pastor playing Jesus for?
Imo, that's the greatest insult of them all.

Agreed..lol. That seems so fake. Like let me teach you a lesson cause I'm so much holier than you.

And I don't think Jesus would play those kind of mind games anyways.

cowboybiker
05-27-2014, 08:33 PM
I think what he did was great.

No one ever choked to death by swallowing their pride.

Cass40
05-27-2014, 08:38 PM
I think what he did was great.

No one ever choked to death by swallowing their pride.

Anything that gets you thinking is great. It's like those shows "what would you do" .
They always make me think.
I wonder if that lady who offered to pay for my groceries watched that episode on TV :)

But I just don't like the "putting people on" aspect of it.

john-t-b
05-27-2014, 08:59 PM
OP
Great story.

I'm not a religous person but I treat people the way I want to be treated...

I saw a guy standing on the side of the road outside of a Large box store. Just holding a sign "hungry please help if you can god bless."
I just finished shopping and had a car full of groceries. I grabbed 3-4 bottles of water, and the box of granola bars i just got and handed them out the window to him.
I drove away to see the cops in the mirror kicking off the street.

Two weeks later at least 4-5 well dressed people holding 5 gallon buckets knocking on peoples windows asking for donations to thier church. Quite a bit of money in it too.
At the same time the same guy holding the same type of sign on the side of the road with the cops again telling him to leave.
I looked at the guy who came to my window and said "Don't you think you should be giving some of that to the guy over there. Or at least trying to help him out in some way?"
No lie the answer he gave me was "He doesn't belong to our church." Wrong in so many ways........
I looked at him and said "That guy has nothing but a sign and is standing there quietly holding his sign. You are knocking on peoples window trying to make them feel guilty and soliciting money from people who are not in you church and have the Ballz to say he doesn't belong to your church. That's some church that you belong to." He just shrugged his shoulders held the bucket up again. "Sorry I don't belong to your church." and rolled the window up.

I have learned down here in this part of Fl. you do not approach a cop when he is talking to anyone....just a bad idea. Waited until the next week and gave the guy a $20.

I have so many other similar stories it's not even funny.

I have always tried to teach my kids to treat people right because it could be them out there but to beware of the people who look you straight in the eye while asking for money and refusing food.

Oceanside
05-27-2014, 09:02 PM
He then said, “Today I see a gathering of people, not a church of Jesus Christ. The world has enough people, but not enough disciples. When will YOU decide to become disciples?” He then dismissed service until next week.......


and then he put on his $ 700.00 suit and drove away in his Bentley

Cass40
05-27-2014, 09:11 PM
But what about that new Pope Francis? Isn't he awesome? He escapes from his palace secretly at night to donate money to homeless people, anonymously! ;)

Although, I guess it's not too anonymous if even I know about it..

And he has a habit of calling randomly to people who have written to him about their troubles.

Can you imagine getting a phone call: hello, this is the pope.

latebloomingmom
05-27-2014, 09:16 PM
But what about that new Pope Francis? Isn't he awesome? He escapes from his palace secretly at night to donate money to homeless people, anonymously! ;)

Although, I guess it's not too anonymous if even I know about it..

And he has a habit of calling randomly to people who have written to him about their troubles.

Can you imagine getting a phone call: hello, this is the pope.will he be calling from the woods? if so, I may have a question for him ;)



just kidding :)

Frnkd
05-27-2014, 09:19 PM
and then he put on his $ 700.00 suit and drove away in his Bentley

I have to say I get it........


still rolling thinking about it.

:D

Cass40
05-27-2014, 09:19 PM
will he be calling from the woods? if so, I may have a question for him ;)



just kidding :)

He'll be probably cruising in his Pope Mobile. ;)

I don't know what kind of woods they have, if any, in Vatican, tbh :(

Frnkd
05-27-2014, 09:25 PM
what an introduction to the 10,000 or so congregation.......I wonder now if they will fill his coffers up even more willingly knowing they are giving to a homeless man leading them.

:D

Fishman15
05-27-2014, 09:37 PM
I see the "homeless" beggers on a daily basis going back and forth to my job. I admit I have felt guilty and offered a couple guys a little money. Unfortunately, after watching them "work the game" on a daily basis almost I felt ashamed for falling for such a scam. Unlike some of you, I do not like the idea of them using the money for drugs and booze, I've had my own issues and more money to ruin my life further was not helping me. Who exactly are we helping by doing this? If someone starts to come up to my vehicle now, I will roll down the window and ask if they are willing to do some odd jobs for some food or clothing. That pretty much ends the transaction...most of these people WILL NOT work for anything. I think the people in the church should have at least acknowledged the guy, but then someone who worked at the church should have offered him some food for helping out around the church. Why are so many people allergic to working now? You can get free food, clothing, shelter, and various other services at any number of public community centers and/or church's now. But yet, here they are standing on the street corner with a cardboard sign asking for cash. I've also seen many of them wearing fairly nice clothes, well groomed and sporting a $150 pair of Nike's and people still give them money...smh

ProPhaze777
05-27-2014, 09:56 PM
Good message delivered in the OP by the pastor.
It is unfortunate that some people abuse peoples charity, but just greeting the man like they greet any other in church goes a long way in helping a man to the right path. And telling him to sit in back is ridiculous, he wasn't playing the righteous part as much as I think he was making aware the masses at his church

so-tex
05-27-2014, 10:27 PM
I hand out a couple bux somewhat frequently for selfish reasons...

I assume they'll use it for for food but at the same time I try not to judge whether or not they will....

no skin off my ass if whoever spends it on a couple beers or drugs...

I think it defeats the purpose of Generosity if you donate with expectations :)Totally agree with you, especially the last paragraph. Lots of good posts here, but I'm on my phone and can't multi-quote.

frozensparky
05-27-2014, 10:40 PM
I can honesty say I would rather give my money to a homeless individual than a church.

When I went to church I would donate every week but in the summers I would not go as much because I would go camping with my family and other things. I then got a letter from our priest stating that even when we are not there the church has costs and I should send my donations in even when I am not attending. I wrote him back and told him since it is my donation he needs to save and not my soul we wouldn't be attending anymore. I believe in god but I have no time for the greed of organized religion.

I can almost gaurentee that stunt doubled the collection for at least a month. Guilting people into giving doesn't seem like a Christian or Christ like thing to do.

Although I do agree that people should feel guilty for not at least greeting the man and making him feel welcome.

so-tex
05-27-2014, 11:00 PM
I can honesty say I would rather give my money to a homeless individual than a church.

When I went to church I would donate every week but in the summers I would not go as much because I would go camping with my family and other things. I then got a letter from our priest stating that even when we are not there the church has costs and I should send my donations in even when I am not attending. I wrote him back and told him since it is my donation he needs to save and not my soul we wouldn't be attending anymore. I believe in god but I have no time for the greed of organized religion.

I can almost gaurentee that stunt doubled the collection for at least a month. Guilting people into giving doesn't seem like a Christian or Christ like thing to do.

Although I do agree that people should feel guilty for not at least greeting the man and making him feel welcome.
I hear you. Our priest says we need to donate 10% of our earnings to the Church, yet the Vatican is one of the richest enteritis in the world. I donate what I think is resonable, and to reputable charities.

V-240
05-27-2014, 11:09 PM
I'd like to see more specifics like the name of the church, date this happened, and maybe a photo.

This sounds like one of those urban legends. Even snopes isn't definite one way or the other. This is one of those things engineered to generate guilt... like we don't have enough crap to think about already.

latebloomingmom
05-28-2014, 05:25 AM
I believe the words that popped up on google where " modern day parable"
the pastor that is credited with this ..Jeremiah something or other..steepek does not appear to actually exist and the photo of the homeless man that appears on internet is from england I believe
this story seems to be loosely based on the real life story of another pastor Willie Lyle who actually did disguise himself as a homeless man

Phattso
05-28-2014, 05:37 AM
I can honesty say I would rather give my money to a homeless individual than a church.

When I went to church I would donate every week but in the summers I would not go as much because I would go camping with my family and other things. I then got a letter from our priest stating that even when we are not there the church has costs and I should send my donations in even when I am not attending. I wrote him back and told him since it is my donation he needs to save and not my soul we wouldn't be attending anymore. I believe in god but I have no time for the greed of organized religion.

I can almost gaurentee that stunt doubled the collection for at least a month. Guilting people into giving doesn't seem like a Christian or Christ like thing to do.

Although I do agree that people should feel guilty for not at least greeting the man and making him feel welcome.

Pretty much agree with you, Sparks. I'd rather give money to a food bank, a military family in need, or something I know where my money is going to. I do not know what the church does with my money. I don't think God would disagree with this. On the other hand, I understand why some people do give to the church, because they need the community. If that is for them, then I support what they want to do. Not all churches are alike and some do have spiritual intentions.

steffo99
05-28-2014, 07:06 AM
Sparky's post just triggered some memories.
I did my first year of College at a private christian school in Florida, and it was a requirement to do a certain amount
of hours of community service. You had do it or you wouldn't get your grades. But signing up for projects to work on,
all they had were things like cleaning private beaches, or plant removal work in swamplands so golf courses could be constructed.
I kept asking why there wasn't any to help those poor people 2 blocks away but never really got an answer.

ironwill2008
05-28-2014, 07:21 AM
Not all churches are alike and some do have spiritual intentions.

^^^^ This.

And some also regularly support local agencies that provide meals and housing to the homeless as well as victims of domestic violence who have nowhere to go, etc. Some have Pastors on staff whose job it is to provide direct aid to people and families in need. The best way to find out where/how contributions to a church are being used is to ask.




I understand the skepticism concerning giving money to strangers, and to churches. But sometimes it might be better to suspend judgment, and just do what we feel is the right thing to do at that moment.

bustasinclair
05-28-2014, 07:34 AM
and then he put on his $ 700.00 suit and drove away in his Bentley

Bingo!!

Another reason to not be overly friendly or benevolent to these homeless people when they're on your doorstep is that these people travel in packs and word gets around fast when a mark has been identified. Give a homeless person a sandwich and $5 while he's on your doorstep and expect at least 20 more next week.

induced_drag
05-28-2014, 09:38 AM
Bingo!!

Another reason to not be overly friendly or benevolent to these homeless people when they're on your doorstep is that these people travel in packs and word gets around fast when a mark has been identified. Give a homeless person a sandwich and $5 while he's on your doorstep and expect at least 20 more next week.

I learned a lot about 'homeless' people over the years. While what I am about to say surly can not categorize every homeless person, it would be safe to say that if every dog you ever met in a decade bit you, you might come away saying "dogs bite". I'll explain.

I have been in construction for almost 20 years. At one time, I had over 70 people working for me. Over the years, I would often see guys holding signs "will work for food. God bless". I would stop and ask them if they wanted to go to work for the day.

90% of them said 'no' immediately.
5% asked what they would be doing and then said no. (sweeping, cleaning up on a job...etc would have been their duties)
3% Said OK and came on the job and were sleeping in corner of the building or hiding within an hour.

The remaining 2% finished out the day to get paid but would not show up again the next day even when offered the work. I would then see them on the same corners where I picked them up the first time. Guess money was better.


So over almost 20 years....I never once met a single 'beggar' ever really wanting to improve their situation. Just my experience.


Now I have had guys that came to me on a job looking for work (obviously distressed people). I would give them appropriate clothes if they needed them, hard hat and hand tools. Most did not work out long term, but much more success then the people asking for handouts on a corner. Sometimes they would last a week or two....then you dont see them again. It was usually after pay day and I have seen the demon of addiction first hand for years and years.

Requitor
05-28-2014, 09:51 AM
I learned a lot about 'homeless' people over the years. While what I am about to say surly can not categorize every homeless person, it would be safe to say that if every dog you ever met in a decade bit you, you might come away saying "dogs bite". I'll explain.

I have been in construction for almost 20 years. At one time, I had over 70 people working for me. Over the years, I would often see guys holding signs "will work for food. God bless". I would stop and ask them if they wanted to go to work for the day.

90% of them said 'no' immediately.
5% asked what they would be doing and then said no. (sweeping, cleaning up on a job...etc would have been their duties)
3% Said OK and came on the job and were sleeping in corner of the building or hiding within an hour.

The remaining 2% finished out the day to get paid but would not show up again the next day even when offered the work. I would then see them on the same corners where I picked them up the first time. Guess money was better.


So over almost 20 years....I never once met a single 'beggar' ever really wanting to improve their situation. Just my experience.


Now I have had guys that came to me on a job looking for work (obviously distressed people). I would give them appropriate clothes if they needed them, hard hat and hand tools. Most did not work out long term, but much more success then the people asking for handouts on a corner. Sometimes they would last a week or two....then you dont see them again. It was usually after pay day and I have seen the demon of addiction first hand for years and years.

At least you provide the opportunity. More then most are willing to do and a far more charitalbe act then just handing out money.

ajdahlheimer
05-28-2014, 09:55 AM
I don't really come in contact with homeless people as I live in a suburb and work on the very outskirts of downtown St. Paul. I did have a weird experience a couple weeks back, though the guy wasn't homeless. I was walking out of Wal-mart (had just bought some fishing stuff for opener), get in my car and this dude pulls in the spot next to me and waves. I kind of wave back and start backing out, and I see the guy is now out of his car trying to flag me down. I stop, roll down my window, and the guy says he is running out of gas and forgot his wallet at home. I said where's home and he says a city in the way north metro--a good 50 miles from where we were in the south metro right then. This guy was wearing a sweater, slacks, and had wire rim glasses. He looked a bit disheveled but it was the end of the day. I asked him what the hell he was doing way down here and he said he had just dropped a friend off in the next town. So I said, why don't you call him up for help? Then he said something about the guy being an older guy and he was doing him a favor taking him down here (which I took as the old guy had no $). So I asked what he wanted me to do. And he asked if he could have $3-5 for some gas. I said, "Bro, that will get you barely a gallon of gas and nowhere near home." His story just had too many holes in it, the more questions I asked. So I told him to call the non-emergency cop line and they could help him and drove off. Just a weird situation. The guy was nice and said he understood the whole time though.

Bushmaster
05-28-2014, 10:02 AM
I can honesty say I would rather give my money to a homeless individual than a church.

When I went to church I would donate every week but in the summers I would not go as much because I would go camping with my family and other things. I then got a letter from our priest stating that even when we are not there the church has costs and I should send my donations in even when I am not attending. I wrote him back and told him since it is my donation he needs to save and not my soul we wouldn't be attending anymore. I believe in god but I have no time for the greed of organized religion.

I can almost gaurentee that stunt doubled the collection for at least a month. Guilting people into giving doesn't seem like a Christian or Christ like thing to do.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE

induced_drag
05-28-2014, 10:10 AM
At least you provide the opportunity. More then most are willing to do and a far more charitalbe act then just handing out money.

One person....yep over almost 20 years, one guy made it all worth it.

His name is "Chris". He had worked for me for only a week and about 5 cop cars storm up on the job and haul him off. I was the first guy he called from jail. He begged that he could please count on me in the future to help him get his life straight. I told him he always had a chance with me.

He went away to federal prison for check fraud and various drug charges. He was addicted to shooting drugs and to fund it he was stealing peoples mail and hijacking checking accounts...etc.

He called me a few times from prison to make sure the door would still be open for him. He also shared with me that in prison they found out he had hepatitis from his drug use.

The day came where I got a call from a parole officer. They asked if I was willing to give him a job and report to his whereabouts if he did not show up. He was to live in a half-way house and I needed to arrange for his transportation to and from the job. I coordinated with a guy that worked for me to arrange for his pickup and drop off with another that lived close by.

Anyway....that is how it all started.

He worked for me for 8 years after that. He became one of my main foreman. He asked for permission to go out on his own, which I did not want to hold him back from and said of course.

Out of hundreds people that worked for me over the years, he is the ONLY one I keep in touch with. I still try to help him out if given the chance. (kicking him a job here and there). Guy is a good guy who was just in a bad spot. Took him hitting rock bottom to realize it and break the cycle of addiction.

Anyway.....this one guy was worth all the headaches of the times I was let down by others. I still consider him a friend and call him now and again just to shoot the crap. I am not as actively involved in the business end any more, so it is nice still having a connection to the field through him as well. It has come full circle.

DaddyJax
05-28-2014, 11:55 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-S0MOjUNpGXo/UrvszeQW8rI/AAAAAAAAAPo/AmqhYVJsCvU/s1600/funny-pictures-auto-stephen-colbert-christian-387527.jpg

thomashenry
05-28-2014, 12:02 PM
When I read this story, whether it is true or not isn`t exactly the point, it made me think of myself, what's in my heart and my actions that follow, good bad or indifferent, and indifference is the worst of them, nothing more & nothing less, at times I generously contribute, spontaneously and willingly, other times not so much & not just monetarily.

I see the People standing with signs from L.A. to Ann Arbor, & a dollar or 2 or whatever isn`t going to kill me, I am not naïve and am aware of the hustlers, those who prey upon people, including the preachers with the Gospel of prosperity which disgust me, their idea of Prosperity and mine are different, an Armani Suit and a Ferrari with reservations @ the Ivy is not what I think of when it comes to prosperity according to the Gospel, not that there is anything wrong with them per se, but priorities, when they are begging for more while living a lifestyle off the backs of those who have virtually nothing, then that is wrong, the system in which we live has it`s obvious flaws, however there are many good people and organizations that do their very best at reaching out to the hurting & unfortunates, and there are a great many amongst us, they just don`t happen to make the headlines as often as they should !

In my Heart I try & do my best and trust me I fail more often than I succeed, it is what's in my heart that I need to pay closer attention to, & pray about, when I see in peoples eyes genuine despair, it obviously troubles me, and I can only temporarily alleviate by doing some gesture to help out as much as I can, whether it is with $ or Time, listening & talking, that is just me & it is not for selfish reasons & or making myself feel better and I have to guard against that Ego BS.

As Cowboy mentioned and I also know from many smoke filled meetings at AA, but for the grace of God there go I, hell I just have to clearly look around, and it aint hard to figure out, all of us know there are a hell of a lot of people out there that have had misfortune happen to them in a variety of ways and reasons, some recover fully or to an extent, some not and yes I am aware I personally cannot help all, but I can do my part setting aside my indifference

Furthermore, I did not post the story to evoke anger, or "Feeling holier than thou" or Guilt, etc etc it was a story about People, and how I am assuming we are all guilty, AT LEAST I AM, to some degree of overlooking the basics {indifference} that many take for granted and others only hope for ! that's all, I, like many others, am certain we lose sight of the fact that we are very fortunate, not that we should feel guilty or anything, I just intended to share a story that touched my heart, that is it.-----------------

Let us think of ways to motivate one another to acts of love and good works.

Hebrews 10:24


" Not all of us can do great things, But we can do small things with Great Love." Mother Teresa

"Never, Never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way" Martin Luther King Jr

Cass40
05-28-2014, 12:10 PM
Yes, I agree that the story was good! Anything that provokes conversation, introspection etc. is good.
And when when I said that it seems "fake", I just meant that it didn't feel a genuine situation to me.
Something like induced grags example for helping people is much better IMO. That really is what it's all about! :)

thomashenry
05-28-2014, 12:25 PM
Yes, I agree that the story was good! Anything that provokes conversation, introspection etc. is good.
And when when I said that it seems "fake", I just meant that it didn't feel a genuine situation to me.
Something like induced grags example for helping people is much better IMO. That really is what it's all about! :)

I wholeheartedly agree, even though I am discerning, I give the benefit of the doubt, if wrong so be it, but truthfully how I am and my Family, if am cooking whatever on the patio, BBQing, and someone walks by, your invited, I have beer in the fridge {even though I don`t Drink}, good scotch, Whiskey, good cigars, hospitality and hopefully I make good company, if nothing else generally I make a friend, and what more can I truly ask for ! and away from home I try and do the same

crupiea
05-28-2014, 12:27 PM
Hate to say it but I probably would hve paid attention to the homeless guy and ignored the church service.

Cass40
05-28-2014, 12:30 PM
Hate to say it but I probably would hve paid attention to the homeless guy and ignored the church service.

Me too :(
Maybe cause I was bullied as a child, I'm always paying attention to "under dogs". Can't help it.

TubbyDad
05-28-2014, 12:32 PM
There's no reason to assume that because someone goes to church (or any place of worship), he or she is unconditionally selfless.

Cass40
05-28-2014, 12:36 PM
There's no reason to assume that because someone goes to church (or any place of worship), he or she is unconditionally selfless.

Would somebody actually assume that? Really?

mslman71
05-28-2014, 12:39 PM
If I give someone money it's because they asked for it and I have some to spare. What they do with it is their business at that point and so long as I can decouple those two I can make the act about giving and nothing else. In a way it is selfish because I can feel good about it without question. If the guy really does use it for something I would think sensible then all the better. If not, then I hope he enjoyed whatever it was he spent it on.

thomashenry
05-28-2014, 12:44 PM
There's no reason to assume that because someone goes to church (or any place of worship), he or she is unconditionally selfless.

Think about this :

Jacob was a cheater; Peter had a temper; David had an affair; Noah got drunk; Jonah ran from God; Paul was a murderer; Gideon was insecure; Miriam was a gossiper; Martha was a worrier; Thomas was a doubter; Sara was impatient; Elijah was moody; Moses stuttered & a murderer; Zaccheus was short; Abraham was old and Lazarus was dead.

Can God use you or not ? Remember, God does not call the qualified. He qualifies the called!

NorwichGrad
05-28-2014, 01:11 PM
When I read this story, whether it is true or not isn`t exactly the point, it made me think of myself, what's in my heart and my actions that follow, good bad or indifferent, and indifference is the worst of them, nothing more & nothing less, at times I generously contribute, spontaneously and willingly, other times not so much & not just monetarily.

I see the People standing with signs from L.A. to Ann Arbor, & a dollar or 2 or whatever isn`t going to kill me, I am not naïve and am aware of the hustlers, those who prey upon people, including the preachers with the Gospel of prosperity which disgust me, their idea of Prosperity and mine are different, an Armani Suit and a Ferrari with reservations @ the Ivy is not what I think of when it comes to prosperity according to the Gospel, not that there is anything wrong with them per se, but priorities, when they are begging for more while living a lifestyle off the backs of those who have virtually nothing, then that is wrong, the system in which we live has it`s obvious flaws, however there are many good people and organizations that do their very best at reaching out to the hurting & unfortunates, and there are a great many amongst us, they just don`t happen to make the headlines as often as they should !

In my Heart I try & do my best and trust me I fail more often than I succeed, it is what's in my heart that I need to pay closer attention to, & pray about, when I see in peoples eyes genuine despair, it obviously troubles me, and I can only temporarily alleviate by doing some gesture to help out as much as I can, whether it is with $ or Time, listening & talking, that is just me & it is not for selfish reasons & or making myself feel better and I have to guard against that Ego BS.

As Cowboy mentioned and I also know from many smoke filled meetings at AA, but for the grace of God there go I, hell I just have to clearly look around, and it aint hard to figure out, all of us know there are a hell of a lot of people out there that have had misfortune happen to them in a variety of ways and reasons, some recover fully or to an extent, some not and yes I am aware I personally cannot help all, but I can do my part setting aside my indifference

Furthermore, I did not post the story to evoke anger, or "Feeling holier than thou" or Guilt, etc etc it was a story about People, and how I am assuming we are all guilty, AT LEAST I AM, to some degree of overlooking the basics {indifference} that many take for granted and others only hope for ! that's all, I, like many others, am certain we lose sight of the fact that we are very fortunate, not that we should feel guilty or anything, I just intended to share a story that touched my heart, that is it.-----------------

Let us think of ways to motivate one another to acts of love and good works.

Hebrews 10:24


" Not all of can do great things, But we can do small things with Great Love." Mother Teresa

"Never, Never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way" Martin Luther King Jr


Beautifully said, Thomas! I kinda thought this was your intent.. ^^ Thanks for explaining.

No matter how hard we try to do the right thing, we are still people. And people are people.

Speaking of homeless people. Yesterday morning at 3:30AM I stopped by my parents’ apartment to drop something off.. A man, whom I thought was a homeless person came out of nowhere.. Worse, I assumed the worst of this person. Fearing for my life, I reached into my bag to ‘get ready’ (I pack heat, as you know) just in case, only to find out I left my 1911 45ACP at home..

Then I started to visualize how I was going to neutralize the threat with my hands and legs, if indeed he posed a threat.

My heart was racing. It was dark.

The ‘homeless’ man was an old ‘newspaper boy.’ He was just doing his job delivering the daily papers. And I felt relief.

Not quite a Bodyhard story, but to my point, even with the best intention, we are still human.

TubbyDad
05-28-2014, 01:28 PM
Would somebody actually assume that? Really?

That's what the title of this thread suggests. So yes, apparently people would.


Think about this :

Jacob was a cheater; Peter had a temper; David had an affair; Noah got drunk; Jonah ran from God; Paul was a murderer; Gideon was insecure; Miriam was a gossiper; Martha was a worrier; Thomas was a doubter; Sara was impatient; Elijah was moody; Moses stuttered & a murderer; Zaccheus was short; Abraham was old and Lazarus was dead.

Can God use you or not ? Remember, God does not call the qualified. He qualifies the called!

Rubbish. I don't live my life to please a supernatural, fictitious deity.

fulloffat
05-28-2014, 01:31 PM
This tale about a pastor who goes "undercover" as a homeless man is reminiscent of an urban legend based on the true story of an experiment conducted for a social psychology class at Princeton University in 1970, in which seminary students were sent on urgent assignments designed to take them past an actor posing as a person in need of assistance. Researchers measured whether (and how) students interrupted their pressing tasks to render help, and analyzed the results.

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/glurge/homelesspastor.asp#LEEJWQXqdRQAm2H4.99


This story use to go around in email chains. It's rehashed every few years.

theKurp
05-28-2014, 01:45 PM
Give money? I want to know you're not making choices I wouldn't make and I want to know you're not buying things I wouldn't buy (otherwise, I wouldn't have it to give). I also want to know that you're doing everything you can to help yourself. Then, and only then will I part with my money and give someone a helping hand.

acrawlingchaos
05-28-2014, 03:09 PM
If I give someone money it's because they asked for it and I have some to spare. What they do with it is their business at that point and so long as I can decouple those two I can make the act about giving and nothing else. In a way it is selfish because I can feel good about it without question. If the guy really does use it for something I would think sensible then all the better. If not, then I hope he enjoyed whatever it was he spent it on.This is generally how I handle things. If someone asks me for change, and I have something to offer, I will. Nor will I spend my time assuming every homeless person that asks for help is some sort of deviant.


Rubbish. I don't live my life to please a supernatural, fictitious deity.This is a bit uncalled for. It's one thing to disagree on spiritual matters (and how they apply to politics and econimics), and something else altogether to be openly insulting to someones faith.


Think about this :

Jacob was a cheater; Peter had a temper; David had an affair; Noah got drunk; Jonah ran from God; Paul was a murderer; Gideon was insecure; Miriam was a gossiper; Martha was a worrier; Thomas was a doubter; Sara was impatient; Elijah was moody; Moses stuttered & a murderer; Zaccheus was short; Abraham was old and Lazarus was dead.

Can God use you or not ? Remember, God does not call the qualified. He qualifies the called!My take on the story (regardless of whether it is fictitious or not). Shame is a poor motivator. It only causes a temporary and superficial change, used to coerce through guilt. There is no personal growth through guilt. Love is a much better and more permanent motivator which can only be witnessed through genuine kindness and generosity... not through pulpit shenanigans.

Karl_Hungus
05-28-2014, 03:11 PM
That's what the title of this thread suggests. So yes, apparently people would.


Not even close. The point was that the church goers were not following the teachings of their religion.




Rubbish. I don't live my life to please a supernatural, fictitious deity.

This has been a nice thread where people (regardless of belief) have examined their own behavior and attitudes toward those who are shunned by most of society. Please don't f'ck it up by trying to start some idiotic debate about the existence of God. We have plenty of those and they never turn out well

TubbyDad
05-28-2014, 03:25 PM
Not even close. The point was that the church goers were not following the teachings of their religion.

Which is exactly what I said... it makes no sense to assume that they would.




This has been a nice thread where people (regardless of belief) have examined their own behavior and attitudes toward those who are shunned by most of society. Please don't f'ck it up by trying to start some idiotic debate about the existence of God. We have plenty of those and they never turn out well

What do you expect when someone posts a thread about god to a bodybuilding forum?

bustasinclair
05-28-2014, 03:28 PM
Rubbish. I don't live my life to please a supernatural, fictitious deity.


This is a bit uncalled for. It's one thing to disagree on spiritual matters (and how they apply to politics and econimics), and something else altogether to be openly insulting to someones faith.


This has been a nice thread where people (regardless of belief) have examined their own behavior and attitudes toward those who are shunned by most of society. Please don't f'ck it up by trying to start some idiotic debate about the existence of God. We have plenty of those and they never turn out well

I guess I disagree here; not that it matters much.

I think when people use bible verses and biblical dogma as a constant source of explaining their way of thinking, that this would be an appropriate response.

Besides, I know plenty of church goers who attend for reasons other than religion.

My takeaway from TubbyDad is that he chooses to follow logic and critical thinking as opposed to blind faith and brain-washing. Just my opinion....

TubbyDad
05-28-2014, 03:34 PM
This is a bit uncalled for. It's one thing to disagree on spiritual matters (and how they apply to politics and econimics), and something else altogether to be openly insulting to someones faith.

The OP had offered me something to "think about", the premise of which I find to be absurd.


My takeaway from TubbyDad is that he chooses to follow logic and critical thinking as opposed to blind faith and brain-washing. Just my opinion....

Correct.

Karl_Hungus
05-28-2014, 03:47 PM
I guess I disagree here; not that it matters much.

I think when people use bible verses and biblical dogma as a constant source of explaining their way of thinking, that this would be an appropriate response.

Besides, I know plenty of church goers who attend for reasons other than religion.

My takeaway from TubbyDad is that he chooses to follow logic and critical thinking as opposed to blind faith and brain-washing. Just my opinion....

We all have different sources and foundations from which we derive our moral beliefs. Some develop these beliefs through religion, and yet others derive their moral philosophy in other ways. I did not see this thread as a debate on the merits underlying the source of one's beliefs -- but rather a discussion of our own personal attitudes and reactions to the less fortunate. It was kind of nice not having the thread devolve into (yet another) theism vs. atheism debate. Too bad it didn't last.....sigh.

Phattso
05-28-2014, 03:49 PM
That's what the title of this thread suggests. So yes, apparently people would.

Rubbish. I don't live my life to please a supernatural, fictitious deity.

It's fine you don't believe and your right. But, it is also your opinion and cannot be stated as a fact.

acrawlingchaos
05-28-2014, 03:56 PM
My takeaway from TubbyDad is that he chooses to follow logic and critical thinking as opposed to blind faith and brain-washing. Just my opinion....The brainwashing, elitism and lemur mentality within the anti-theist/atheism circle is just as strong. Seriously... we really need to let this tired sh*t go.


The OP had offered me something to "think about", the premise of which I find to be absurd.



Correct.I can quite easily disagree with someone without telling them that what they believe in is a crock of sh*t, just as I can accept a blessing without resorting to venom. If you want to feign insult because someone asks you to ponder the bible... I guess that's your prerogative.



What do you expect when someone posts a thread about god to a bodybuilding forum?I have no idea what this means, or why it's relevant.

Bushmaster
05-28-2014, 03:57 PM
It's fine you don't believe and your right. But, it is also your opinion and cannot be stated as a fact.

Unlike god...?

Think about it.

TubbyDad
05-28-2014, 04:06 PM
It's fine you don't believe and your right. But, it is also your opinion and cannot be stated as a fact.

Actually, that would be incorrect. Every single thing I believe in can be stated as fact. You my recognize this quote, “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson




I can quite easily disagree with someone without telling them that what they believe in is a crock of sh*t, just as I can accept a blessing without resorting to venom. If you want to feign insult because someone asks you to ponder the bible... I guess that's your prerogative.



If I think what you are talking about is gibberish or nonsense I will tell you. If that offends you, oh well. I won't lose sleep over it.



I have no idea what this means, or why it's relevant.

When you post something about politics or religion on a forum that is devoted to something else entirely, that is comprised of strangers from all walks of life, you should expect that a debate will ensue.

Phattso
05-28-2014, 04:08 PM
Actually, that would be incorrect. Every single thing I believe in can be stated as fact. You my recognize this quote, “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson



Perfect example of an opinion.

TubbyDad
05-28-2014, 04:10 PM
Perfect example of an opinion.

Edit: I had a snarky response initially, but really not worth it. :)

acrawlingchaos
05-28-2014, 04:15 PM
If I think what you are talking about is gibberish or nonsense I will tell you.And in doing so, what exactly are you trying to prove? What exactly do you hope to accomplish?


If that offends you, oh well. I won't lose sleep over it.It doesn't offend me in least, I was simply appealing to your sense of decency.


When you post something about politics or religion on a forum that is devoted to something else entirely, that is comprised of strangers from all walks of life, you should expect that a debate will ensue.I debate when I debate. Logical consistency and factual accuracy are the essence of debate... you did not debate.

Phattso
05-28-2014, 04:18 PM
Edit: I had a snarky response initially, but really not worth it. :)

If I believe, then that is also my opinion. I do not expect you or anyone else to agree or think I am stating a fact. What you believe is what you believe. What I believe is what you believe. :)

TubbyDad
05-28-2014, 04:22 PM
And in doing so, what exactly are you trying to prove? What exactly do you hope to accomplish?

Read back. This all stems from me making the statement that to assume someone who attends church is selfless is silly. The title of this thread is meant for me to look at it and think, "OMG! Churchgoers??!! No way!!!!" When in reality, nothing that churchgoers do should lead me to be surprised by the actions from the story. So that was my point initially.


It doesn't offend me in least, I was simply appealing to your sense of decency.
Ok, if you consider honesty to be indecent.


I debate when I debate. Logical consistency and factual accuracy are the essence of debate... you did not debate.
Logical consistency and factual accuracy are not present in the realm of religion, but I can still debate the validity of religion. But you are correct, I am not really debating so much as providing an explanation for my comments, which are seen by some as offensive.

Nikonguy
05-28-2014, 04:23 PM
If I think what you are talking about is gibberish or nonsense I will tell you. If that offends you, oh well. I won't lose sleep over it.

Yeah, but we already have a guy who does that for us full time.




His name is Bodyhard. :)

TubbyDad
05-28-2014, 04:36 PM
Yeah, but we already have a guy who does that for us full time.




His name is Bodyhard. :)

True, and he is way more entertaining than I am haha.

cowboybiker
05-28-2014, 04:42 PM
This is new and interesting.

acrawlingchaos
05-28-2014, 05:14 PM
Read back. This all stems from me making the statement that to assume someone who attends church is selfless is silly. The title of this thread is meant for me to look at it and think, "OMG! Churchgoers??!! No way!!!!" When in reality, nothing that churchgoers do should lead me to be surprised by the actions from the story. So that was my point initially.I'm aware of the flow of the thread. Someone who wrote a piece (who's target audience was most likely not atheists), used a little poetic license to make a dramatic point.


Ok, if you consider honesty to be indecent.Just your approach.


Logical consistency and factual accuracy are not present in the realm of religion, but I can still debate the validity of religion.Yes they are, and if you are presenting yourself as some bastion of intellect, perhaps your responses should omit the logical fallacies anti-theists consistently present to theists in arguments.


But you are correct, I am not really debating so much as providing an explanation for my comments, which are seen by some as offensive.Perhaps you should not say you are debating if you know you are not. Would clear things up.

TubbyDad
05-28-2014, 05:38 PM
Yes they are, and if you are presenting yourself as some bastion of intellect, perhaps your responses should omit the logical fallacies anti-theists consistently present to theists in arguments.


And those would be?

DaddyJax
05-28-2014, 06:14 PM
As a fellow Atheist I can understand the need to argue when there is any mention of church or religion and do so quite frequently. I looked at this thread with a different angle and noticed the point that it was originally intended to have and the other points that it made that the OP may not have foreseen. I have found that engaging believers into a pissing match is not conducive when there are other issues that can be addressed that are more likely to change things for the better.

TubbyDad
05-28-2014, 06:38 PM
As a fellow Atheist I can understand the need to argue when there is any mention of church or religion and do so quite frequently. I looked at this thread with a different angle and noticed the point that it was originally intended to have and the other points that it made that the OP may not have foreseen. I have found that engaging believers into a pissing match is not conducive when there are other issues that can be addressed that are more likely to change things for the better.

Yeah, I know. It's a weakness of mine I guess. Nothing good ever comes from internet arguments, and people generally don't like to be told they are wrong. But I do it anyways. I consider holding myself back until page 3 to be a small victory at least.

It's funny, the only thread I've been negged for on a fitness forum had to do with religion.

cowboybiker
05-28-2014, 06:45 PM
Yeah, I know. It's a weakness of mine I guess. Nothing good ever comes from internet arguments, and people generally don't like to be told they are wrong. But I do it anyways. I consider holding myself back until page 3 to be a small victory at least.

It's funny, the only thread I've been negged for on a fitness forum had to do with religion.
As an analytical man you should realize that negs and reps dont mean much IRL.

TubbyDad
05-28-2014, 06:46 PM
As an analytical man you should realize that negs and reps dont mean much IRL.

I know, it's why I repped the ones who negged me. :)

acrawlingchaos
05-28-2014, 06:58 PM
And those would be?Red Herring; you changed the argument from the initial premise to something unrelated.
Poisoning the Well; discrediting the speaker by discrediting his beliefs. This would also be an Appeal to ridicule.
Fallacy of quoting out of context; the intention of the title was to emphasize degree, not to imply Christians are infallible.
Mind projection fallacy; insisting you truly see the world as it "really is", unlike everyone else.
And we can now add judgmental language, and appeal to pity (if negs meant nothing you would not have mentioned them)

Jtbny
05-28-2014, 07:13 PM
As a fellow Atheist I can understand the need to argue when there is any mention of church or religion and do so quite frequently. I looked at this thread with a different angle and noticed the point that it was originally intended to have and the other points that it made that the OP may not have foreseen. I have found that engaging believers into a pissing match is not conducive when there are other issues that can be addressed that are more likely to change things for the better.

I don't ever feel the need to argue with anyone who's beliefs are different than mine. I never understand those who want to engage in a pissing match about it. What does it matter to me (or any one else).

TubbyDad
05-28-2014, 07:13 PM
Red Herring; you changed the argument from the initial premise to something unrelated.

I pointed out the absurdity in assuming that parishioners would act any differently than they did in this example. I didn't change anything, it was there the entire time.



Poisoning the Well; discrediting the speaker by discrediting his beliefs. This would also be an Appeal to ridicule.

I never discredited the OP. I merely pointed out that whatever point he was trying to make wasn't working since it relied on a belief in god, which I don't have.



Fallacy of quoting out of context; the intention of the title was to emphasize degree, not to imply Christians are infallible.

No, it was to evoke surprise that one who purportedly follows the example of Christ would act in such a way. In reality we all know that most Christians (most people in general) would act the same way.

Mind projection fallacy; insisting you truly see the world as it "really is", unlike everyone else.

Plenty of people see it my way.


And we can now add judgmental language.

Oh? Where was I judgmental?

so-tex
05-28-2014, 07:31 PM
Yeah, but we already have a guy who does that for us full time.




His name is Bodyhard. :)I lol'd at this. :D

V-240
05-28-2014, 07:35 PM
http://www.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/copyrightWrapper/watermark.php?display=true&image=http://www.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/funny-wet-cats-8.jpg

http://www.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/copyrightWrapper/watermark.php?display=true&image=http://www.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/funny-wet-cats-8.jpg

so-tex
05-28-2014, 07:36 PM
Yeah, I know. It's a weakness of mine I guess. Nothing good ever comes from internet arguments, and people generally don't like to be told they are wrong. But I do it anyways. I consider holding myself back until page 3 to be a small victory at least.

It's funny, the only thread I've been negged for on a fitness forum had to do with religion.No negs from me. I usually don't neg idiots. :). Sorry, I don't give a rats ass whether a person is an atheist or theist, but some of your posts are absurd.

TubbyDad
05-28-2014, 07:39 PM
No negs from me. I usually don't neg idiots. :). Sorry, I don't give a rats ass whether a person is an atheist or theist, but some of your posts are absurd.

Which posts? I'd be more than happy to explain.

so-tex
05-28-2014, 07:42 PM
Which posts? I'd be more than happy to explain.You have pretty much explained yourself quite well. :)

ArchAngel'73
05-28-2014, 08:02 PM
It's funny, the only thread I've been negged for on a fitness forum had to do with religion.

Supplement selling forum. ;)
That's why this sh*t is here (politics and religion).
More traffic = more sales.

Do not fool yourself thinking this is a bodybuilding forum, it's VERY far removed from that now.

acrawlingchaos
05-28-2014, 08:04 PM
I pointed out the absurdity in assuming that parishioners would act any differently than they did in this example. I didn't change anything, it was there the entire time.

I never discredited the OP. I merely pointed out that whatever point he was trying to make wasn't working since it relied on a belief in god, which I don't have.

No, it was to evoke surprise that one who purportedly follows the example of Christ would act in such a way. In reality we all know that most Christians (most people in general) would act the same way.

Plenty of people see it my way.

Oh? Where was I judgmental?I think I explained myself quite clearly. If you want to carry on with your antagnism, that's your choice. It's an awfully foolish burden to bear.

Suffice to say we believe the same thing, but have radically different approaches.

cowboybiker
05-28-2014, 08:08 PM
Supplement selling forum. ;)
That's why this sh*t is here (politics and religion).
More traffic = more sales.

Do not fool yourself thinking this is a bodybuilding forum, it's VERY far removed from that now.

Is it like that on My Little Pony.com?
































Bronie.



;)

ArchAngel'73
05-28-2014, 08:10 PM
Is it like that on My Little Pony.com?
Bronie.
;)

Yes.
I hope every pony has a great day! :)

*blech*
:p

TubbyDad
05-28-2014, 08:19 PM
I think I explained myself quite clearly. If you want to carry on with your antagnism, that's your choice. It's an awfully foolish burden to bear.

Suffice to say we believe the same thing, but have radically different approaches.

Your "explanation" was a set of poorly associated logical fallacies; they simply do not exist. Nothing that I have stated was meant to deceive or convey anything other than my initial point.

I refuted the mechanism that the OP employed to draw readers into the story, because I think that the association of "religious" with "selfless" is unfounded and unwarranted. I commented on the subject matter like everyone else, but I commented on a different aspect of it. Somehow that makes me an antagonist?

cowboybiker
05-28-2014, 08:23 PM
Yes.
I hope every pony has a great day! :)

*blech*
:p
Ponies are srs bizness

JediRN
05-28-2014, 08:28 PM
But what about that new Pope Francis? Isn't he awesome? He escapes from his palace secretly at night to donate money to homeless people, anonymously! ;)



I'm really happy with the new Pope and the direction he is taking the Catholic church in.


Good message delivered in the OP by the pastor.
It is unfortunate that some people abuse peoples charity, but just greeting the man like they greet any other in church goes a long way in helping a man to the right path. And telling him to sit in back is ridiculous, he wasn't playing the righteous part as much as I think he was making aware the masses at his church
I'm sure the story was embellished a bit. Never went to a church where the people were not inviting.


I'd like to see more specifics like the name of the church, date this happened, and maybe a photo.

This sounds like one of those urban legends. Even snopes isn't definite one way or the other. This is one of those things engineered to generate guilt... like we don't have enough crap to think about already.

I've been reading variations of this story for 20+ years.



One person....yep over almost 20 years, one guy made it all worth it.

His name is "Chris"....


Great example of "how the world is" depends on how we chose to look at it. It would be so easy to look at your track history as a failure, but you chose to look at the wins. That's not easy and takes a great deal of maturity and wisdom. I mention this only because I am currently working on this skill and it struck a chord.


Yes, I agree that the story was good! Anything that provokes conversation, introspection etc. is good.
And when when I said that it seems "fake", I just meant that it didn't feel a genuine situation to me.
Something like induced grags example for helping people is much better IMO. That really is what it's all about! :)

Like the bible... it doesn't have to be taken literally to be useful and edifying.


There's no reason to assume that because someone goes to church (or any place of worship), he or she is unconditionally selfless.

The churches I've atttended are very upfront that it is a full of sinners... that's why they are there.


That's what the title of this thread suggests. So yes, apparently people would.



Rubbish. I don't live my life to please a supernatural, fictitious deity.

Yea.. a fellow Atheist! But why fight the fight here?




What do you expect when someone posts a thread about god to a bodybuilding forum?
I expected someone to bring the cliche DB atheist response. congrats. You met expectations.


As a fellow Atheist I can understand the need to argue when there is any mention of church or religion and do so quite frequently. I looked at this thread with a different angle and noticed the point that it was originally intended to have and the other points that it made that the OP may not have foreseen. I have found that engaging believers into a pissing match is not conducive when there are other issues that can be addressed that are more likely to change things for the better.
Yea... another atheist. Two more and we can form a club!

Seriously, I've gotten past the point where I feel a need to prove myself right and Christians wrong. and i'm happier for it. There's no point really. When Christians get back to their roots and really try to live a life consistant with the teachings of Jesus it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling and good things happen. If following the teachings of Christ leads to happiness and a better world then why would an atheist want to stand in the way (except for jealosy) There's nothing in the OP's story that maginalizes or takes away from the rights of a non-believer. In fact we aren't even mentioned.

There are plenty of opportunites to battle Christians on matters that really matter, forced prayer, biblically based laws, science and education etc. Why bother them when they are just trying to reenforce true "Red print" Christian values?

acrawlingchaos
05-28-2014, 08:30 PM
Your "explanation" was a set of poorly associated logical fallacies; they simply do not exist. Nothing that I have stated was meant to deceive or convey anything other than my initial point.You have a poor understanding of logical fallacies.


I refuted the mechanism that the OP employed to draw readers into the story, because I think that the association of "religious" with "selfless" is unfounded and unwarranted. I commented on the subject matter like everyone else, but I commented on a different aspect of it. Somehow that makes me an antagonist?I have no contention with your initial post. Telling someone that their beliefs are stupid or absurd, is sophomoric and clearly antagonistic.

If you can't even begin to understand how belittling someones religion is starting sh*t for the sake of starting sh*t... I don't know what to tell you other than you lack intellectual honesty....

Brackneyc
05-28-2014, 08:35 PM
I ignored some people today who were being dicks. Hope none of them turn out to be a future boss of mine, just testing me. That would suck.

jeffaus
05-28-2014, 08:49 PM
what an introduction to the 10,000 or so congregation.......I wonder now if they will fill his coffers up even more willingly knowing they are giving to a homeless man leading them.

:DI cant believe there are congregations with 10,000 people in them. How big is the church they all fit into? I'd love to be the one counting the collection plates.

eomrat
05-28-2014, 09:04 PM
I cant believe there are congregations with 10,000 people in them. How big is the church they all fit into? I'd love to be the one counting the collection plates.


http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1671337/thumbs/o-LAKEWOOD-CHURCH-facebook.jpg

Lakewood Church in Houston, Tx.
Ave weekly attendency - 45,000

Old-Time-Lifter
05-28-2014, 09:06 PM
I cant believe there are congregations with 10,000 people in them. How big is the church they all fit into? I'd love to be the one counting the collection plates.

There are some scary big mega-churches out there. The largest here is about 2,500 people so I could believe some in bigger bergs might get to 10,000 members. One has to remember that only a fraction of a churches members come to worship regularly.

Fishman15
05-28-2014, 09:40 PM
Which is exactly what I said... it makes no sense to assume that they would.




What do you expect when someone posts a thread about god to a bodybuilding forum?


I'm pretty sure this is a "misc forum" and not the bodybuilding forum. Don't you agree that most of the topics on the "misc" forum have very little or nothing to do with body building?

so-tex
05-28-2014, 09:57 PM
I cant believe there are congregations with 10,000 people in them. How big is the church they all fit into? I'd love to be the one counting the collection plates.I bet you would, you thieving Aussie bastard. :D

so-tex
05-28-2014, 10:13 PM
I ignored some people today who were being dicks. Hope none of them turn out to be a future boss of mine, just testing me. That would suck.Me too. I put a quote of Oceanside in my sig, and I feel better already. :)

Fishman15
05-28-2014, 10:19 PM
I bet you would, you thieving Aussie bastard. :D

So he's not Chinese? ;)

so-tex
05-28-2014, 10:34 PM
So he's not Chinese? ;)Nope, definitely Australian. They're all belligerent thieving bastards. That's why the British kicked them out. :p

jeffaus
05-29-2014, 05:25 AM
I bet you would, you thieving Aussie bastard. :DIt seems you know me too well.

jeffaus
05-29-2014, 05:29 AM
Nope, definitely Australian. They're all belligerent thieving bastards. That's why the British kicked them out. :pAnd how dumb was that move. Banished all of us criminals to beautiful Australia and stayed in England and then spent most of the 20th century all trying to migrate to Australia. Fkc off, we're full.

jeffaus
05-29-2014, 05:30 AM
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1671337/thumbs/o-LAKEWOOD-CHURCH-facebook.jpg

Lakewood Church in Houston, Tx.
Ave weekly attendency - 45,000Mind = blown. That photo looks more like a photo from WWE wrestlemania.

jeffaus
05-29-2014, 05:34 AM
There are some scary big mega-churches out there. The largest here is about 2,500 people so I could believe some in bigger bergs might get to 10,000 members. One has to remember that only a fraction of a churches members come to worship regularly.When I went home to Aus a few weeks ago, I actually took a photo of a cute little Anglican church which was the next street over from my sisters house. An old timber structure, but beautifully preserved. I would expect it would have fitted no more than 30 or 40 people in it. The numbers you guys are talking about is mind boggling to me.

cowboybiker
05-29-2014, 06:47 AM
And how dumb was that move. Banished all of us criminals to beautiful Australia and stayed in England and then spent most of the 20th century all trying to migrate to Australia. Fkc off, we're full.

Well, you do have some awesome waves.

bustasinclair
05-29-2014, 07:33 AM
Think about this :

Jacob was a cheater; Peter had a temper; David had an affair; Noah got drunk; Jonah ran from God; Paul was a murderer; Gideon was insecure; Miriam was a gossiper; Martha was a worrier; Thomas was a doubter; Sara was impatient; Elijah was moody; Moses stuttered & a murderer; Zaccheus was short; Abraham was old and Lazarus was dead.

Can God use you or not ? Remember, God does not call the qualified. He qualifies the called!

Ok, I'm not a huge debate person, and I am not trying to debate anything here, but if this was a discussion of churchgoers not acting benevolently, why did we have to bring up old testament stories? And in doing so, isn't it okay to dismiss those references in the context of our own beliefs? Just asking...I really don't see how TubbyDad's response was so egregious.....:confused:


The brainwashing, elitism and lemur mentality within the anti-theist/atheism circle is just as strong. Seriously... we really need to let this tired sh*t go.

I apologize for adding to the ****storm, I just didn't see why a person was chastised for stating his beliefs in a passionate manner. Honestly, Bushmasters youtube of George Carlin was wayyyyy more deserving of chastising....but wait, that's right, he's a tenured member here.

In essence, my point is this: It seems like Theists get a license to be passionate all day long, but an Atheist has to keep a lid on it. Seems like a double-standard to me.


I can quite easily disagree with someone without telling them that what they believe in is a crock of sh*t, just as I can accept a blessing without resorting to venom. If you want to feign insult because someone asks you to ponder the bible... I guess that's your prerogative.

Again, I guess I just don't see his comment as calling OP's beliefs a 'crock of shiit'. I digress

JediRN
05-29-2014, 08:52 AM
In essence, my point is this: It seems like Theists get a license to be passionate all day long, but an Atheist has to keep a lid on it. Seems like a double-standard to me.



I just accept the double standard. I really would like most Christians I know not become atheist. I think they'd be bad at it. It's not all about amoral, do what you want, there is no "good" or "evil" I encourage them all to go to church regularly and really listen. Particularly to anything that is in Red Print. (In my bibles, Christs actual words are in red.)

mikieson
05-29-2014, 09:48 AM
I dont care to help 99% of the homeless because they put themselves there. Ive seen story after story about people making it in life with zero $$ or anything.if they can..so can other homeless. IF you are a homeless VET shouldnt you be getting pension of some kind monthly? Move out here to Vegas and thats all you see on every corner or parking lot..its old..i cant wait to move back home away from this cesspool of trash.

Dave76
05-29-2014, 10:01 AM
In essence, my point is this: It seems like Theists get a license to be passionate all day long, but an Atheist has to keep a lid on it. Seems like a double-standard to me.
I don't quite understand how you can be passionate about a disbelief. I don't believe in ghosts or Big Foot but I don't jump into internet threads about these subjects declaring myself to be more logical, factual, and thus more intelligent than those who do believe in these things.

I can certainly understand not wanting to have religion pushed down your throat through religion based laws or forced prayer. But this thread wasn't about that. This thread was about caring for those less fortunate than ourselves, something I'd think would apply to the atheist and theist alike.

thomashenry
05-29-2014, 10:06 AM
For anyone who knows me or has read some of my posts in the past, this for me isn`t close to being {Passionate} about my beliefs, in regards to what I believe & or follow.

I don`t think I challenged anyone to a debate here {in this Post} criticized another`s beliefs, whether I agree or disagree, didn`t come out swinging at any perceived attacks, frankly don`t care, it is not that I am incapable of Spirited debate, just not there yet in this thread, I don`t think or believe I pointed towards anyone in a personal manner, again not that I am incapable. I made this thread again because it touched something in me, it was about People, if the reference about a scenario at a Church and how people equate the Church & Bible together well go figure !

The mention to one about some of the people in the Bible were merely to point out how everyday people with ALL their faults are and have been used by God, whether you believe that or not, that's on you not me !

I also believe that I described briefly how I act around my house, graciously welcoming anyone, unless of course your a complete uncaring lowlife adolescent behaving jackass then I have no problem doing whatever to get rid of you, and I don`t care whether you believe that or not, whether your a Rep or Dem, Christian, atheist, agnostic, Conservative or Liberal, black or white gay or straight etc but I hope we become friends & I believe and know I will treat you with respect, if someone asks me directly what I believe I will most definitely not shy away, I don`t necessarily think that will void a friendship, if someone wants to debate fine, lets have at it, This was not my intention for this thread however & knowing what has occurred in past threads, the Mods have a funny {NOT BAD FUNNY, LOL} of moving things I have been PASSIONATE about & participated spirited debate, however I am not going to go there in this thread, not yet at least :]

I don`t go along with the crowd and yet I am no different from most others {fill in the blank, leave off Murder and other serious things, other than that I am in}, I have a compass that I adhere to most of the time I use and that works for me

Requitor
05-29-2014, 10:11 AM
Mind = blown. That photo looks more like a photo from WWE wrestlemania.

The amount of irony and parallelism (its a word, I just typed it didn't I) in your statement is at 100%!

acrawlingchaos
05-29-2014, 10:18 AM
I apologize for adding to the ****storm, I just didn't see why a person was chastised for stating his beliefs in a passionate mannerIf you feel TD was justified in expressing his opinion, why is it you have a problem with my opinion of his opinion.... this is stupid. He said something I felt was asinine, and I spoke my mind (just like him). I'm fairly confident I've said nothing offensive.


Honestly, Bushmasters youtube of George Carlin was wayyyyy more deserving of chastising....but wait, that's right, he's a tenured member here.Spare me :rolleyes: Apparently you're not aware of my post history. I was at work and didn't watch the video.... don't usually watch cute little clips of what other people think is funny.


In essence, my point is this: It seems like Theists get a license to be passionate all day long, but an Atheist has to keep a lid on it. Seems like a double-standard to me.Again... apparently you are not aware of my post history. A tenured (whatever the **** that is) poster made what I felt were off beat comments about atheism. I didn't act any differently in that thread than I did ITT.

I don't know where the **** people got it into their heads that they don't have to live up to the expectations they set for others. It doesn't matter if theists want to sh*t all over atheism... that's not a valid excuse for me to compromise my personal integrity.

If I hate and am insulted when others make insult to my beliefs, why would I emulate the sort of behavior that I disapprove of? I don't play tit for tat.




Again, I guess I just don't see his comment as calling OP's beliefs a 'crock of shiit'. I digressRubbish and fictitious.... I think "crock of ****" is a fair comparison.

induced_drag
05-29-2014, 10:23 AM
Wish people were as passionate and spirited about lifting as they are talking about religion and politics on this site.


Worst decision ever made was to allow this CRAP over here. It now TOTALLY dominates the MISC here.

There was a place for it, and it should have stayed there. Mods gave an inch....and these guys who love to post this stuff have gone wild with this CRAP! (SRS)

[insert bible verse of infinite wisdom here]
[insert political affiliation here]
[insert BLA BLA BLA.....]

acrawlingchaos
05-29-2014, 10:28 AM
Wish people were as passionate and spirited about lifting as they are talking about religion and politics on this site.


Worst decision ever made was to allow this CRAP over here. It now TOTALLY dominates the MISC here.

There was a place for it, and it should have stayed there. Gave an inch....and these guys who love to post this stuff have gone wild with this CRAP! (SRS)

[insert bible verse of infinite wisdom here]
[insert political affiliation here]
[insert BLA BLA BLA.....]I enjoy the discussions... I still lift 4 x / week with the better half. Went to the Cutler Classic this weekend. Don't know what else you want. Sorry it's not good enough bro.



Aint even mad.

High fives anyway.

bustasinclair
05-29-2014, 10:29 AM
If you feel TD was justified in expressing his opinion, why is it you have a problem with my opinion of his opinion.... this is stupid. He said something I felt was asinine, and I spoke my mind (just like him). I'm fairly confident I've said nothing offensive.

Spare me :rolleyes: Apparently you're not aware of my post history. I was at work and didn't watch the video.... don't usually watch cute little clips of what other people think is funny.

Again... apparently you are not aware of my post history. A tenured (whatever the **** that is) poster made what I felt were off beat comments about atheism. I didn't act any differently in that thread than I did ITT.

I don't know where the **** people got it into their heads that they don't have to live up to the expectations they set for others. It doesn't matter if theists want to sh*t all over atheism... that's not a valid excuse for me to compromise my personal integrity.

If I hate and am insulted when others make insult to my beliefs, why would I emulate the sort of behavior that I disapprove of? I don't play tit for tat.



Rubbish and fictitious.... I think "crock of ****" is a fair comparison.

Fair enough. All good my man.

FTR, no, I'm not aware of your post history. I don't usually join threads like these. My bad.

thomashenry
05-29-2014, 10:31 AM
Wish people were as passionate and spirited about lifting as they are talking about religion and politics on this site.


Worst decision ever made was to allow this CRAP over here. It now TOTALLY dominates the MISC here.

There was a place for it, and it should have stayed there. Mods gave an inch....and these guys who love to post this stuff have gone wild with this CRAP! (SRS)

[insert bible verse of infinite wisdom here]
[insert political affiliation here]
[insert BLA BLA BLA.....]

There are 24 other posts in the OV 35 Misc Section on the front page alone, none have to do with what bothers you, dat azz, cute puppy, someone hurling from leg workouts etc etc and it`s almost caturday, isn`t variety & choice the spice of life

induced_drag
05-29-2014, 10:33 AM
I enjoy the discussions... I still lift 4 x / week with the better half. Went to the Cutler Classic this weekend. Don't know what else you want. Sorry it's not good enough.



Aint event mad.

High fives anyway.


My point is better made here:
This stuff should have its own subsection so it does not totally overrun the forum as it has.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=162180311

Jtbny
05-29-2014, 10:37 AM
Wish people were as passionate and spirited about lifting as they are talking about religion and politics on this site.


Worst decision ever made was to allow this CRAP over here. It now TOTALLY dominates the MISC here.

There was a place for it, and it should have stayed there. Mods gave an inch....and these guys who love to post this stuff have gone wild with this CRAP! (SRS)

[insert bible verse of infinite wisdom here]
[insert political affiliation here]
[insert BLA BLA BLA.....]

Many times I think others just look for a reason to argue on this site and in particular this section of it. I happens to like the fact the misc is available as it keeps the main section kinda clutter free. Many of the misc regulars rarely participate in the threads in the main and even fewer in the journal section. Seems easier for me to just not click over here, and I often go days/weeks without even looking at this side, than it is to weave and bob all the threads that would be created in one section.

acrawlingchaos
05-29-2014, 10:51 AM
FTR, no, I'm not aware of your post history.Basically... I'm a prick.


I don't usually join threads like these. My bad..... ya... you gotta have a special kind of constitution for these threads.

theluckylad
05-29-2014, 10:53 AM
Screw that.

If you're homeless it's probably because you chose drugs/booze over rent money and a job.
I worked for social services for over a decade and everyone of these mutherphuckers made a choice/choices to get them there.

I'm tired of trying be blamed or be made felt guilty over someone's else's problems that they willingly invite onto themselves.

My God don't buy that sh*t.


Furthermore, wtf is the pastor playing Jesus for?
Imo, that's the greatest insult of them all.

Jesus dislikes this post

Seriously though I'm suprised to see a comment with such ignorance coming from a man of your age and I hope you don't class yourself as a christian with that attitude because you aren't.

acrawlingchaos
05-29-2014, 10:56 AM
Many times I think others just look for a reason to argue on this site and in particular this section of it. I happens to like the fact the misc is available as it keeps the main section kinda clutter free. Many of the misc regulars rarely participate in the threads in the main and even fewer in the journal section. Seems easier for me to just not click over here, and I often go days/weeks without even looking at this side, than it is to weave and bob all the threads that would be created in one section.I need to make my way back to the journals. I'm so done with dieting... so done. I'll probably head back over after one more cycle of 531.

Soon...

Jtbny
05-29-2014, 11:00 AM
I need to make my way back to the journals. I'm so done with dieting... so done. I'll probably head back over after one more cycle of 531.

Soon...

Start one :) Miss seeing/reading yours. I'm taking a bit of a break from mine ATM but will resume again soon.

TubbyDad
05-29-2014, 11:00 AM
There are 24 other posts in the OV 35 Misc Section on the front page alone, none have to do with what bothers you, dat azz, cute puppy, someone hurling from leg workouts etc etc and it`s almost caturday, isn`t variety & choice the spice of life

This is something we can agree on.

induced_drag
05-29-2014, 12:03 PM
Many times I think others just look for a reason to argue on this site and in particular this section of it. I happens to like the fact the misc is available as it keeps the main section kinda clutter free. Many of the misc regulars rarely participate in the threads in the main and even fewer in the journal section. Seems easier for me to just not click over here, and I often go days/weeks without even looking at this side, than it is to weave and bob all the threads that would be created in one section.


That is exactly the way I feel. I am not saying they cant talk about it, but what about a separate R&P sect in >35.

Streetbull
05-29-2014, 12:05 PM
Really?

If I was forced to give .50 cents to every homeless person I have ever encountered, I'd be homeless myself.

A church isn't a place to 'beg' or freeload. Quite honestly, with all of the people who play on others' emotions for a living, whether they be homeless or not, you can't go around trying to save the world all the time trusting that they are just unfortunate and truly in need.

I donate to my charities and that's where I draw the line.

I don't normally contribute in these 'holier than thou' type threads, but I just had to say my piece.

Yep. Every once in a while, you see an expose where the 'homeless' goes and gets in their new car after 'work'. Follow them to their upscale suburban abode.

GuyJin
05-29-2014, 04:21 PM
I'm gonna come at this from a non-religious perspective, and say that what the pastor did was a study in human nature either in conjunction with his religion or apart from it. This kind of urban legend has been around for decades--rich person slums it with the poor, royalty mixes with commoners, they learn how the other half lives, etc.--t'is the stories of my childhood and movies galore. Nothing new here.

What is also nothing new is the reaction. People are bewildered by/fear/hate (take your pick) that which is different. They fear the other. Toss in race, class, ethnicity, religion, gender, orientation...it's a potent mix and the outcome ain't always pleasant. That's human nature at its best and worst.

Y'all want hypocrisy? Witness this forum when Old Superman came out. Actually, he didn't really come out--he was outed, at least in part--and I'm willing to bet my meager salary that some of his supporters were shocked and dismayed and soon became non-supporters. Going from "Hey, you da man" to "Talk to the hand, man" can be a real downer. Me, I could care less about what path he walks. I was pissed off due to his shilling his programs, not his sexual orientation.

Getting back to what Thomas H wrote--peoples' attitudes toward the homeless--I get it. I get the responses here. I understand them completely, and I'll just say that I don't like the idea of shaming someone to do what they don't want to, but that's how society works in some ways. What is on display in this thread is a wide spectrum of ideas, but the concept of the other and the fear of the other is something we all have to deal with. We make our choices and live with them.


Out.

Brackneyc
05-29-2014, 04:26 PM
I think it is bad when anyone treats anyone poorly, whether they be church goers or not.

so-tex
05-29-2014, 05:14 PM
I think it is bad when anyone treats anyone poorly, whether they be church goers or not.I agree. I like to treat others as they would have them treat me. I know some Christians who are complete azzholes. I also know a few Atheist's who are good as gold, and would do anything for you. It's just not fair to judge a person period imo.

DaddyJax
05-30-2014, 06:30 PM
I agree. I like to treat others as they would have them treat me. I know some Christians who are complete azzholes. I also know a few Atheist's who are good as gold, and would do anything for you. It's just not fair to judge a person period imo.100% agree. Could care less about anything about you except what you do, how you treat yourself and others and the choices you make.