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bodyhard
05-03-2014, 05:16 AM
I think most who know me here read my thread about my new EA, although the post was not about him, lots of people chime in on the subject.

So brief recap on that thread; I was introduced to my new AE and it turned out it was a man, not a woman which is what I would have thought, and worse yet he was a gay man.

So I have been working with him for some weeks now and while his fruity ways bugs the sh!t out of me, he has to be the most organized, proficient person I have ever worked with.

He also has to be the nicest person I have ever had to deal with in a professional environment.

What I don't like about him are the compliments, (mostly on my clothes) never over the top, but still too much for my taste coming from a man.

When I came in with a shaved head, he went a little too much with the "handsome, sharp, much better than with hair" compliments and I told him.

But all in all it has not been as bad as I thought, this coming from a homophobic person such as myself.

ajdahlheimer
05-03-2014, 06:43 AM
Doesn't sound like it would be too hard to get rid of him if you get to a point where you can't take it anymore though. Gay, straight, or whatever--HR would not approve of such compliments. I once had a Co-worker get offended when I got on an elevator with her (I hadn't seen/talked to her in a while.because she changed floors) and I told her "You look good." Those exact words. Didn't even mean it in a sexual way or anything, just something I will tell anyone I haven't seen in a while out of courtesy. It was brought up by HR to me some time later.

WonderPug
05-03-2014, 06:50 AM
You're a self-proclaimed " homophobic person", but you use the politically correct term AE rather than secretary?

frozensparky
05-03-2014, 07:55 AM
he has to be the most organized, proficient person I have ever worked with.

He also has to be the nicest person I have ever had to deal with in a professional situation

Honestly this is all I would really care about.

Other than that as long as he's not crossing the line alls good. Which to be honest, in a professional setting should be the same line if he was a gay man, or a woman.

ISAID69
05-03-2014, 08:56 AM
Yea fruit cakes drive me mental, I feel your pain man. The other day A colleague said 'Oh hi, I see you've cut your hair' - Really? C'mon really?

Yes bud I cut it cause if I let it grow longer it'll piss me off to the point I could throttle someone, starting with you.

frozensparky
05-03-2014, 09:00 AM
Yea fruit cakes drive me mental, I feel your pain man. The other day A colleague said 'Oh hi, I see you've cut your hair' - Really? C'mon really?

Yes bud I cut it cause if I let it grow longer it'll piss me off to the point I could throttle someone, starting with you.

Wow the nerve of some people. Totally justifiable reaction to someone noticing your haircut. You should have beat him within an inch of his life for that. I feel your pain

x-trainer ben
05-03-2014, 09:35 AM
"he has to be the most organized, proficient person I have ever worked with."

came in expecting this ^^^^...left satisfied.

Phattso
05-03-2014, 09:39 AM
Yea fruit cakes drive me mental, I feel your pain man. The other day A colleague said 'Oh hi, I see you've cut your hair' - Really? C'mon really?

Yes bud I cut it cause if I let it grow longer it'll piss me off to the point I could throttle someone, starting with you.

You are one tough dude. Road rage much?


Wow the nerve of some people. Totally justifiable reaction to someone noticing your haircut. You should have beat him within an inch of his life for that. I feel your pain

lol

Brackneyc
05-03-2014, 09:40 AM
Yea fruit cakes drive me mental, I feel your pain man. The other day A colleague said 'Oh hi, I see you've cut your hair' - Really? C'mon really?

Yes bud I cut it cause if I let it grow longer it'll piss me off to the point I could throttle someone, starting with you.
Lighten up Francis.

MiklaDfar
05-03-2014, 09:55 AM
Yea fruit cakes drive me mental, I feel your pain man. The other day A colleague said 'Oh hi, I see you've cut your hair' - Really? C'mon really?

Yes bud I cut it cause if I let it grow longer it'll piss me off to the point I could throttle someone, starting with you.

http://www.angermanagementonline.com/

GentlemanLifter
05-03-2014, 10:14 AM
ďI want you to say to yourself 'I deserve this, I love it, I am Nature's greatest miracle!Ē ―Karl

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080604194309/simpsons/images/4/40/Karl.jpg

ISAID69
05-03-2014, 11:07 AM
Right, I hear you. Sponge cakes if you're reading this, don't comment on my hair. Or my ass.

ajdahlheimer
05-03-2014, 11:23 AM
ďI want you to say to yourself 'I deserve this, I love it, I am Nature's greatest miracle!Ē ―Karl

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080604194309/simpsons/images/4/40/Karl.jpg

Karl's voice: God bless you. You are one of Springfield's very special creatures. [camera pulls back to reveal Karl is standing there] Your obedient servant, Karl. ... Good luck, sir.
Homer: [startles] Karl, so that <wasn't> just a sweet voice I heard inside my head.

frozensparky
05-03-2014, 11:31 AM
Right, I hear you. Sponge cakes if you're reading this, don't comment on my hair. Or my ass.

Hard to comment on your hair when it appears your head is stuck up your a$$.

superman713
05-03-2014, 11:45 AM
Right, I hear you. Sponge cakes if you're reading this, don't comment on my hair. Or my ass.

From the looks of your profile pic... I think it would not be hard for a "sponge cake" To bend you over and make you his b!tch... Work the weights more and less with your mouth. Unless you're into that... i dunno.

bodyhard
05-03-2014, 12:37 PM
Doesn't sound like it would be too hard to get rid of him if you get to a point where you can't take it anymore though. Gay, straight, or whatever--HR would not approve of such compliments. I once had a Co-worker get offended when I got on an elevator with her (I hadn't seen/talked to her in a while.because she changed floors) and I told her "You look good." Those exact words. Didn't even mean it in a sexual way or anything, just something I will tell anyone I haven't seen in a while out of courtesy. It was brought up by HR to me some time later.

Nah I am kool with it, the last thing I would want to do is get someone fired for any reason.


You're a self-proclaimed " homophobic person", but you use the politically correct term AE rather than secretary?
What is AE?

PrincePoutine
05-03-2014, 02:12 PM
handsome, sharp, much better than with hair > thick, tight, solid

WonderPug
05-03-2014, 02:30 PM
What is AE?In my instance, it appears to be a sign of late onset dyslexia.

bodyhard
05-03-2014, 03:08 PM
In my instance, it appears to be a sign of late onset dyslexia.

Well played...

Bando
05-03-2014, 04:56 PM
It sounds like maybe he was put in your life to make you learn some tolerance and you were put in his life to cure him of his homosexuality.

Corbi
05-03-2014, 05:07 PM
Best 1 star thread ever, oh I know it isn't 1 star yet but give it time to grow and mature like BH's attitude towards the gheys:D

bodyhard
05-03-2014, 05:30 PM
Best 1 star thread ever, oh I know it isn't 1 star yet but give it time to grow and mature like BH's attitude towards the gheys:DI am shock it's wasnt 1 star once the gays lovers read it, like so many on here lol

DaddyJax
05-03-2014, 06:16 PM
Hard to comment on your hair when it appears your head is stuck up your a$$.Repped!

Old-Time-Lifter
05-03-2014, 06:22 PM
Yea fruit cakes drive me mental, I feel your pain man. The other day A colleague said 'Oh hi, I see you've cut your hair' - Really? C'mon really?

Yes bud I cut it cause if I let it grow longer it'll piss me off to the point I could throttle someone, starting with you.

Oh really??


Hard to comment on your hair when it appears your head is stuck up your a$$.

This ^^^ made me laugh.


From the looks of your profile pic... I think it would not be hard for a "sponge cake" To bend you over and make you his b!tch... Work the weights more and less with your mouth. Unless you're into that... i dunno.

QFT ^^^


Judging by his avi I doubt he needs to worry about any compliments about his tush.

Tmax55
05-03-2014, 06:36 PM
From the looks of your profile pic... I think it would not be hard for a "sponge cake" To bend you over and make you his b!tch... Work the weights more and less with your mouth. Unless you're into that... i dunno.

Owned

Phattso
05-03-2014, 08:45 PM
Hey John, just an idea: Why don't you try a change-up by training the gay guy and having the girl as your personal assistant?


;)

UnaChispita
05-03-2014, 08:59 PM
C'mon now, BH-

Just cuz he complimented you doesn't mean he's attracted to you.

I know this might be hard to believe, but just cuz he likes men doesn't mean he likes every man.

:D

(But actually serious).

Real talk. Just because I told one of my female friends tonight that I liked her shoes doesn't mean I want to have sex with her.

Bando
05-03-2014, 09:09 PM
BH will get this guy turned around and chasing skirts in clubs in a matter of weeks, mark my words

frozensparky
05-03-2014, 09:43 PM
Real talk. Just because I told one of my female friends tonight that I liked her shoes doesn't mean I want to have sex with her.

In every single guys mind that is a total lie ;)

pharmamarketer
05-03-2014, 10:12 PM
Maybe you have finally realized that it isn't contagious

KeepItMoving
05-04-2014, 08:04 AM
One observation I have about today's reality in the work environment, and I'm speaking as an attorney with Partners who practice employment law. He may compliment, comment, and fawn all over you to his heart's content, and, even if it did make you uncomfortable, you would never be able to establish that you're experiencing a "hostile work environment." Meanwhile, if you imitated those same, patterned, repetitive behaviors, as a heterosexual man towards a woman, you and your employer would have real liability issues.

This is just a statement of reality. No need to bring hate to me if you think I'm being "homophobic," (Which is neither a word, nor an actual psychiatric condition. It is merely a politically created term.) And no, I don't long for "the good ol' days when men could pinch their secretaries' asses and say filthy things to them, while making them fear for their jobs. My point is that there is never a balance.

DocHoss
05-04-2014, 08:25 AM
Just because I told one of my female friends tonight that I liked her shoes doesn't mean I want to have sex with her.

You mean the woman who complimented my vibrams at the gym isn't about to jump me? Sheesh!


One observation I have about today's reality in the work environment, and I'm speaking as an attorney with Partners who practice employment law. He may compliment, comment, and fawn all over you to his heart's content, and, even if it did make you uncomfortable, you would never be able to establish that you're experiencing a "hostile work environment." Meanwhile, if you imitated those same, patterned, repetitive behaviors, as a heterosexual man towards a woman, you and your employer would have real liability issues.

This is just a statement of reality. No need to bring hate to me if you think I'm being "homophobic," (Which is neither a word, nor an actual psychiatric condition. It is merely a politically created term.) And no, I don't long for "the good ol' days when men could pinch their secretaries' asses and say filthy things to them, while making them fear for their jobs. My point is that there is never a balance.
I think a big difference is that BH is the boss here, not the assistant. He has the power. If the tables were turned and he had a gay boss fawning over him, then there would be more of a case. Same for a male assistant and a female boss fawning over him.

UnaChispita
05-04-2014, 09:01 AM
You mean the woman who complimented my vibrams at the gym isn't about to jump me? Sheesh!

I'm sure you are the exception! :D

Cass40
05-04-2014, 09:02 AM
BH, I would be interested to know if you would hire an EA knowing that he was a gay man yet best for the job.

bodyhard
05-04-2014, 09:10 AM
BH, I would be interested to know if you would hire an EA knowing that he was a gay man yet best for the job. No I would not. I keep **** 100 and I won't lie just to fit in.



Also for clarification I don't think this guy is hitting on me. He just compliments people and I don't like it said to me. If I thought for a second he was hitting on me, I would beat his ass.

NorwichGrad
05-04-2014, 10:58 AM
When I was in the Army, I went to this place that appeared to do haircuts. Not quite a traditional barbershop.


I asked the dude, "Excuse me, sir. Are you a barber?"

He got a bit offended. He replied, with his neck moving like E.T. in a counterclockwise circular motion, "No. I'm not a barber. I'm a hair thtylithht." (He had a lisp and he was trying to say he was a hair stylist.)

That was the beginning of a nice friendship til I left the Army. He gave the best flat top ever.

Gays no longer bother me, as long as they don't say "I love eggrolls."

beachguy498
05-04-2014, 11:07 AM
We take a SH course once a year at work and you are probably a victim of SH. However, acting on it may be bad for you in the long run. It seems like you have a nice job and they like you. My advice is maybe to ask the guy to tone it down a bit if it bugs you that much. He seems to be quite capable and efficient, the devil you know may be better than the one you don't know.

Rob

bodyhard
05-04-2014, 11:13 AM
We take a SH course once a year at work and you are probably a victim of SH. However, acting on it may be bad for you in the long run. It seems like you have a nice job and they like you. My advice is maybe to ask the guy to tone it down a bit if it bugs you that much. He seems to be quite capable and efficient, the devil you know may be better than the one you don't know.

Rob

I did and he honored it, so I am good.


As I said, I never thought the guy liked me, he compliments everyone both men and women, I just did not like him complimenting me. Not sure why some here thought I thought he was hitting on me. I guess they don't know me very well, as the thread would have been about me knocking some gay dude out and me losing my job.

tobymax123
05-04-2014, 10:31 PM
No I would not. I keep **** 100 and I won't lie just to fit in.

Also for clarification I don't think this guy is hitting on me. He just compliments people and I don't like it said to me. If I thought for a second he was hitting on me, I would beat his ass.

This just boggles my mind, and I can not understand it. You wouldn't hire the best person for the job if they happen to be gay? I don't even want you to try and explain it. I'm just saying it's illogical and baffling, and not a sound business practice.

Frnkd
05-05-2014, 01:27 AM
With regards to the complements, yeah I have gone to sexual harassment training, and realize any compliment, gesture, topics etc that create a "hostile" environment to the complainant can be considered SH. Knowing that I don't even mention how someone is dressed, got a haircut, or acknowledge any innuendos....unless of course I know the person I am talking to. Some people are just looking for targets and reasons to create problems when one does not exist.....however, when an investigation is made- and HR has no choice but to investigate each complaint, the conclusion is usually settled with education.

We have had some creepy stalker types and usually its no doubt the complaint is a good SH case. If that person don't get it and continues of course he/she will be escorted by HR to his/her car not to be seen again. LOL

BH, reps for recognizing that in spite of his "orientation" you recognize the good work that he does for you.
Next is for you to get over bees and needles......one thing at a time.....ROFL

:D

mr.average
05-05-2014, 02:40 AM
Lighten up Francis.

You wouldn't believe it, I'm watching stripes atm

beachguy498
05-05-2014, 05:08 AM
I did and he honored it, so I am good.

As I said, I never thought the guy liked me, he compliments everyone both men and women, I just did not like him complimenting me. Not sure why some here thought I thought he was hitting on me. I guess they don't know me very well, as the thread would have been about me knocking some gay dude out and me losing my job.

As long as he's this way with everyone you're not being singled out. This is how he is, period. I work with some very gay people and have had to accept that some of them are more quirkier than others. Every one of them I work with is just plain meticulous about their work and are considered an asset to the company.

Rob

tobymax123
05-05-2014, 06:35 AM
As long as he's this way with everyone you're not being singled out. This is how he is, period. I work with some very gay people and have had to accept that some of them are more quirkier than others. Every one of them I work with is just plain meticulous about their work and are considered an asset to the company.

Rob

What a coincidence! I work with some very straight people, and some of them are quirkier than others. What are the odds? Like you, I've just had to accept it. Every one of those people are considered assets to the company too! I guess that's why they were hired and remain employed.

bodyhard
05-05-2014, 06:43 AM
This just boggles my mind, and I can not understand it. You wouldn't hire the best person for the job if they happen to be gay? I don't even want you to try and explain it. I'm just saying it's illogical and baffling, and not a sound business practice.

Well let me keep it 100 here, I would not hire, as my EA, a person who was truly "fruity". For one I would be uncomfortable and in turn I will make that person uncomfortable, so why subject both us to that? Would I hire him to work in another department/area not having to affiliate with me? of course.

Now if the guy was gay and acted normal, then no I would not have a problem with him and I would hire him in a heartbeat.


With regards to the complements, yeah I have gone to sexual harassment training, and realize any compliment, gesture, topics etc that create a "hostile" environment to the complainant can be considered SH. Knowing that I don't even mention how someone is dressed, got a haircut, or acknowledge any innuendos....unless of course I know the person I am talking to. Some people are just looking for targets and reasons to create problems when one does not exist.....however, when an investigation is made- and HR has no choice but to investigate each complaint, the conclusion is usually settled with education.

We have had some creepy stalker types and usually its no doubt the complaint is a good SH case. If that person don't get it and continues of course he/she will be escorted by HR to his/her car not to be seen again. LOL

BH, reps for recognizing that in spite of his "orientation" you recognize the good work that he does for you.
Next is for you to get over bees and needles......one thing at a time.....ROFL

:D

One thing at a time man one thing at a time....Needles first then bees :D

Tmax55
05-05-2014, 07:41 AM
Gay people don't bother me. As long as I don't have to see them do the deed. I can list hundreds of straight people I wouldn't want to see do the deed either so - I think that is reasonable.

What bothers me is ****philes. We had a contractor do some paving work at our house and I like to talk a little bit to all the contractors just so I can understand them and the work they do (also to make sure its done right). I have three small girls. This guy proceeds to tell me that he did some paving at a bank in a nearby town next to a day care center. Then he describes (in a lot of detail) the outfits some of the small girls there are wearing, says he kept trying to get one of them to come and talk to him, which he eventually did - and when she got called in from recess or whatever they call it - she winked at him. My radar was flashing bright red. I was thinking I don't want this idiot talking to my kids. The dude's brother is an ex-weightlifter so I thought maybe he'll understand something about lifting I proceeded to tell him about how I used to workout in my 20's...thinking if he understands that I voluntarily put myself through that kind of hell - he will understand I would have no problem inflicting all kinds of horrors on him should he touch my kids...he was dumb as a post and didn't make that connection. My wife later told me he was talking to the kids a lot. I told her I didn't want the kids around him and relayed what he told me. The next day he is there early in the morning so I went outside to check on him, spoke briefly to him - and sitting on my kids picnic table are donuts, which he didn't tell me about - I threw them away before the kids could see them.

I have a friend who is a contractor who has said he has heard from multiple people keep that guy away from your kids....before I told him my story. My friend and neighbor is the assistant police chief for our city (also with two young girls at home) and I relayed the man's story and behavior to him - he did not seem surprised.

I don't have actual evidence that this man is a ****phile, but this behavior seems odd at best.

bodyhard
05-05-2014, 07:46 AM
Holy f'ck I thought Tmax55 was Tobymax123 new screenname!

But I see now that it isn't too funny!

frozensparky
05-05-2014, 08:41 AM
This is just a statement of reality. No need to bring hate to me if you think I'm being "homophobic," (Which is neither a word, nor an actual psychiatric condition.

I've seen you say this before. The word is in the oxford, Merriam-Webster and Collins dictionaries and it has a medical definition. I'm not accusing you of anything, or asking what your thoughts on gays are but I am wondering what causes you to believe that it's not a real word or condition.

Tmax55
05-05-2014, 08:54 AM
Holy f'ck I thought Tmax55 was Tobymax123 new screenname!

But I see now that it isn't too funny!

What isn't funny the name or the story - or both?

When I joined (in December) I had no idea that someone had a screenname that close to the one I picked otherwise I might have gone with something different to avoid confusion. My name is Tom, not Toby, but the Tom is where the "T" comes from.

bodyhard
05-05-2014, 09:08 AM
What isn't funny the name or the story - or both?

When I joined (in December) I had no idea that someone had a screenname that close to the one I picked otherwise I might have gone with something different to avoid confusion. My name is Tom, not Toby, but the Tom is where the "T" comes from.

Commas should be my friend LOL it should have read;

But I see now that it isn't, too funny.

:D :D

Tmax55
05-05-2014, 09:14 AM
Gotcha

bodyhard
05-05-2014, 09:19 AM
OK so what does Max55 stand for?

DocHoss
05-05-2014, 10:39 AM
I'm sure you are the exception! :D
You're a doll, UC! (meant in a not-gonna-jump-you way, of course ;))


No I would not. I keep **** 100 and I won't lie just to fit in.

Also for clarification I don't think this guy is hitting on me. He just compliments people and I don't like it said to me. If I thought for a second he was hitting on me, I would beat his ass.
You have never been one to hide your opinions, that's for sure.
Would you feel the same way if a woman complimented you? How about a woman you feel is repulsive?


I did and he honored it, so I am good.

As I said, I never thought the guy liked me, he compliments everyone both men and women, I just did not like him complimenting me. Not sure why some here thought I thought he was hitting on me. I guess they don't know me very well, as the thread would have been about me knocking some gay dude out and me losing my job.
And probably going to jail for assault.


What a coincidence! I work with some very straight people, and some of them are quirkier than others. What are the odds? Like you, I've just had to accept it. Every one of those people are considered assets to the company too! I guess that's why they were hired and remain employed.
Classic!


Well let me keep it 100 here, I would not hire, as my EA, a person who was truly "fruity". For one I would be uncomfortable and in turn I will make that person uncomfortable, so why subject both us to that? Would I hire him to work in another department/area not having to affiliate with me? of course.

Now if the guy was gay and acted normal, then no I would not have a problem with him and I would hire him in a heartbeat.

What if a black person makes you uncomfortable? Or maybe he/she needs to act "white"? Or how about your father fought in WWII and was in a Japanese POW camp, and you therefore won't hire a Japanese EA because you fell uncomfortable? We can't all live in our comfortable cocoons.

But I give you credit for giving the guy a chance and not freaking out.



What bothers me is ****philes. We had a contractor do some paving work at our house and I like to talk a little bit to all the contractors just so I can understand them and the work they do (also to make sure its done right). I have three small girls. This guy proceeds to tell me that he did some paving at a bank in a nearby town next to a day care center. Then he describes (in a lot of detail) the outfits some of the small girls there are wearing, says he kept trying to get one of them to come and talk to him, which he eventually did - and when she got called in from recess or whatever they call it - she winked at him. My radar was flashing bright red. I was thinking I don't want this idiot talking to my kids. The dude's brother is an ex-weightlifter so I thought maybe he'll understand something about lifting I proceeded to tell him about how I used to workout in my 20's...thinking if he understands that I voluntarily put myself through that kind of hell - he will understand I would have no problem inflicting all kinds of horrors on him should he touch my kids...he was dumb as a post and didn't make that connection. My wife later told me he was talking to the kids a lot. I told her I didn't want the kids around him and relayed what he told me. The next day he is there early in the morning so I went outside to check on him, spoke briefly to him - and sitting on my kids picnic table are donuts, which he didn't tell me about - I threw them away before the kids could see them.

I have a friend who is a contractor who has said he has heard from multiple people keep that guy away from your kids....before I told him my story. My friend and neighbor is the assistant police chief for our city (also with two young girls at home) and I relayed the man's story and behavior to him - he did not seem surprised.

I don't have actual evidence that this man is a ****phile, but this behavior seems odd at best.
Not odd, creepy at best. This is really scary. I don't see how he has not been run out of town.


OK so what does Max55 stand for?
Bench? Squat? Deadlift? :D

bodyhard
05-05-2014, 10:49 AM
You have never been one to hide your opinions, that's for sure.
Would you feel the same way if a woman complimented you? How about a woman you feel is repulsive?


And probably going to jail for assault.
No not at all I welcome women complimenting me. I don't find women repulsive. and I would go to jail with a smile on my face.






What if a black person makes you uncomfortable? Or maybe he/she needs to act "white"? Or how about your father fought in WWII and was in a Japanese POW camp, and you therefore won't hire a Japanese EA because you fell uncomfortable? We can't all live in our comfortable cocoons.

But I give you credit for giving the guy a chance and not freaking out.
If any of the above mentioned would have made me uncomfortable then yes I would not hire them, but since none of the above mention bother me that is a moot point.

I don't need credit, credit is given where credit is due and I am not due any credit.




Bench? Squat? Deadlift? :D

55lbs? :D

Tmax55
05-05-2014, 12:28 PM
OK so what does Max55 stand for?

Max is a shortened version of my last name also something some people call me. 55 was my jersey number in sports.

Its not a reference to my max on T-bar rows :) Not to ebrag, but I can lift more than 55 on those.

bodyhard
05-05-2014, 12:46 PM
Max is a shortened version of my last name also something some people call me. 55 was my jersey number in sports.

Its not a reference to my max on T-bar rows :) Not to ebrag, but I can lift more than 55 on those.

LOL, glad to hear that!!

:D :D

DocHoss
05-05-2014, 04:26 PM
No not at all I welcome women complimenting me. I don't find women repulsive.

I know that. But surely you don't find every woman attractive? I'm talking about the one that turns your stomach.

LOL, glad to hear that!!

:D :D

Same here :)

pharmamarketer
05-05-2014, 04:28 PM
I am so glad I live drama free for the most part. This seems exhausting to think this way.

bodyhard
05-05-2014, 05:12 PM
I know that. But surely you don't find every woman attractive? I'm talking about the one that turns your stomach.

Same here :) I've yet to meet a woman in real life that turns my stomach. And if I did I doubt it would bother me if she complimented me

mcbourque
05-05-2014, 06:17 PM
Gay people don't bother me. As long as I don't have to see them do the deed. I can list hundreds of straight people I wouldn't want to see do the deed either so - I think that is reasonable.

What bothers me is ****philes. We had a contractor do some paving work at our house and I like to talk a little bit to all the contractors just so I can understand them and the work they do (also to make sure its done right). I have three small girls. This guy proceeds to tell me that he did some paving at a bank in a nearby town next to a day care center. Then he describes (in a lot of detail) the outfits some of the small girls there are wearing, says he kept trying to get one of them to come and talk to him, which he eventually did - and when she got called in from recess or whatever they call it - she winked at him. My radar was flashing bright red. I was thinking I don't want this idiot talking to my kids. The dude's brother is an ex-weightlifter so I thought maybe he'll understand something about lifting I proceeded to tell him about how I used to workout in my 20's...thinking if he understands that I voluntarily put myself through that kind of hell - he will understand I would have no problem inflicting all kinds of horrors on him should he touch my kids...he was dumb as a post and didn't make that connection. My wife later told me he was talking to the kids a lot. I told her I didn't want the kids around him and relayed what he told me. The next day he is there early in the morning so I went outside to check on him, spoke briefly to him - and sitting on my kids picnic table are donuts, which he didn't tell me about - I threw them away before the kids could see them.

I have a friend who is a contractor who has said he has heard from multiple people keep that guy away from your kids....before I told him my story. My friend and neighbor is the assistant police chief for our city (also with two young girls at home) and I relayed the man's story and behavior to him - he did not seem surprised.

I don't have actual evidence that this man is a ****phile, but this behavior seems odd at best.

Wow that's really really creepy. Made my stomach turn. Good on you for reporting this.

pharmamarketer
05-05-2014, 06:43 PM
I've yet to meet a woman in real life that turns my stomach. And if I did I doubt it would bother me if she complimented me
Lmao. This **** is gold

pharmamarketer
05-05-2014, 06:47 PM
I've yet to meet a woman in real life that turns my stomach. And if I did I doubt it would bother me if she complimented me
Are u serious? I hope not.

pharmamarketer
05-05-2014, 06:51 PM
I've yet to meet a woman in real life that turns my stomach. And if I did I doubt it would bother me if she complimented me
Socrates

baker
05-05-2014, 07:18 PM
Socrates

http://frdoesntknowbest.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/bestgeezersSocrates.jpg

KeepItMoving
05-06-2014, 06:54 AM
I've seen you say this before. The word is in the oxford, Merriam-Webster and Collins dictionaries and it has a medical definition. I'm not accusing you of anything, or asking what your thoughts on gays are but I am wondering what causes you to believe that it's not a real word or condition.It's a silly, politically created/politically charged term. Credible psychiatrists do not recognize such a condition. By credible, I mean doctors who are not pushing a liberal agenda. The term has no original nexus to the medical community, none whatsoever. But, thanks for your interest in my words; I know you follow me around here. http://www.conservapedia.com/Homophobia

KeepItMoving
05-06-2014, 07:01 AM
Gay people don't bother me. As long as I don't have to see them do the deed. I can list hundreds of straight people I wouldn't want to see do the deed either so - I think that is reasonable.

What bothers me is ****philes. We had a contractor do some paving work at our house and I like to talk a little bit to all the contractors just so I can understand them and the work they do (also to make sure its done right). I have three small girls. This guy proceeds to tell me that he did some paving at a bank in a nearby town next to a day care center. Then he describes (in a lot of detail) the outfits some of the small girls there are wearing, says he kept trying to get one of them to come and talk to him, which he eventually did - and when she got called in from recess or whatever they call it - she winked at him. My radar was flashing bright red. I was thinking I don't want this idiot talking to my kids. The dude's brother is an ex-weightlifter so I thought maybe he'll understand something about lifting I proceeded to tell him about how I used to workout in my 20's...thinking if he understands that I voluntarily put myself through that kind of hell - he will understand I would have no problem inflicting all kinds of horrors on him should he touch my kids...he was dumb as a post and didn't make that connection. My wife later told me he was talking to the kids a lot. I told her I didn't want the kids around him and relayed what he told me. The next day he is there early in the morning so I went outside to check on him, spoke briefly to him - and sitting on my kids picnic table are donuts, which he didn't tell me about - I threw them away before the kids could see them.

I have a friend who is a contractor who has said he has heard from multiple people keep that guy away from your kids....before I told him my story. My friend and neighbor is the assistant police chief for our city (also with two young girls at home) and I relayed the man's story and behavior to him - he did not seem surprised.

I don't have actual evidence that this man is a ****phile, but this behavior seems odd at best.Aahhh, but according to the agenda driven, liberal "psychiatrists," you simply need to "open your mind." Now that homosexuality has been mainstreamed as normal, acceptable, and downright beautiful, we must take the next bold step to mind growth and...well, read the article...expand your mind. I puked.http://www.wnd.com/2011/08/336869/

bodyhard
05-06-2014, 07:13 AM
One day ****philes will be the norm as well just you wait and see

KeepItMoving
05-06-2014, 07:48 AM
One day ****philes will be the norm as well just you wait and seeStop being such a closed minded ****phobe!! And yes, that's how the re-education to political correctness occurs. Tell a generation of college students that ****philes are normal and those who oppose them are hateful monsters, and there you have it. Oh, and NO, I am not "equating" homosexuals with ****philes; I'm simply pointing out the re-education process.

I have a lot of respect for people who know right from wrong and hold the line on those beliefs.

GuyJin
05-06-2014, 08:00 AM
Read the Conservapedia article, noted it, found it filled with half-truths. When you go to the 'About' page, notice the lines "We do not allow liberal bias to deceive and distort here. Founded initially in November 2006 as a way to educate advanced, college-bound homeschoolers, this resource has grown into a marvelous source of information for students, adults and teachers alike. Our courses are ongoing and open to all here: Conservapedia:Index. We have received over 250 million page views!"

How nice that they fight against the "liberal bias(es)" but are not biased themselves...or are they?

The American Psychiatric Association spoke out against institutionalized anti-gay measures adopted by some govt's around the world. It should be noted that homophobia was not listed in its taxonomy as an identifiable 'phobia' per se, but it still recognized that many people and institutions held some longterm biases against homosexuals. Naturally, one has to ask themselves if the APA is itself "liberal" or "neutral" or "conservative". As with anything, you're going to have a wide range of political views possibly influencing medical views.

For the record, I think that you're either born straight, gay, bi, or transgendered. While some psychologists talk about gender fluidity I've never put much stock in that. I think those individuals swing (no pun intended) toward being bi-sexual, but that's coming from a layman's point of view, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I also find it disturbing that the idea of ****philia was introduced in this thread. How did it go from BH's admitted bias against gays to ****philia? That's a new one on me. Unless someone is actually hinting that gays are more inclined to be ****philes...are they? From the articles on the Net, the answer seems to be "no". And also for the record, I find the concept of ****philia sickening. That is a truly frightening thing to do to children.

frozensparky
05-06-2014, 08:47 AM
It's a silly, politically created/politically charged term. Credible psychiatrists do not recognize such a condition. By credible, I mean doctors who are not pushing a liberal agenda.

So only doctors pushing a conservative agenda are considered credible?


The term has no original nexus to the medical community, none whatsoever. But, thanks for your interest in my words; I know you follow me around here. http://www.conservapedia.com/Homophobia

I follow a lot of peoples opinions around here, even if I don't agree with them. I like to listen to different opinions on topics so I can make up my own mind. If you close your mind to opinions that differ from your own all you really do is stunt your own personal growth.

Tmax55
05-06-2014, 09:09 AM
I think liberal doctors need to open their minds to people like us (if I daresay I can speak for some others here in this) - who enjoy lifting heavy things for how it makes us feel or just because, who rejoice in the pain that comes during a good training session, who like eating red ****ing meat, who enjoy competition and beating the snot out of their competitors, not because we hate our competitors - if it weren't for them - who would give us the challenge? We thank God for competitors and competition every day. We keep score - otherwise why play? We don't make excuses and we don't play the victim. We don't hate, except for one thing - weakness, and while its distasteful in others, we don't quite hate it in them - we hate it when its is within us.

Opening my mind to ****philes would be a weakness in my mind therefor I must reject it. What consenting adults do is their business (so long as they don't make it mine). A child lacks the mental awareness and maturity to give consent.

Cass40
05-06-2014, 09:17 AM
One day ****philes will be the norm as well just you wait and see

What a horrible thought! Hope I'll be dead by then.

x-trainer ben
05-06-2014, 09:26 AM
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/mind-guest-blog/2013/05/20/dsm-5-caught-between-mental-illness-stigma-and-anti-psychiatry-prejudice/

For the record the DSM 5 is the recognized book for disorders, pictured in the above article; anything else is just opinionator kicks and giggles.

KeepItMoving
05-06-2014, 09:32 AM
Read the Conservapedia article, noted it, found it filled with half-truths. When you go to the 'About' page, notice the lines "We do not allow liberal bias to deceive and distort here. Founded initially in November 2006 as a way to educate advanced, college-bound homeschoolers, this resource has grown into a marvelous source of information for students, adults and teachers alike. Our courses are ongoing and open to all here: Conservapedia:Index. We have received over 250 million page views!"

How nice that they fight against the "liberal bias(es)" but are not biased themselves...or are they?

The American Psychiatric Association spoke out against institutionalized anti-gay measures adopted by some govt's around the world. It should be noted that homophobia was not listed in its taxonomy as an identifiable 'phobia' per se, but it still recognized that many people and institutions held some longterm biases against homosexuals. Naturally, one has to ask themselves if the APA is itself "liberal" or "neutral" or "conservative". As with anything, you're going to have a wide range of political views possibly influencing medical views.

For the record, I think that you're either born straight, gay, bi, or transgendered. While some psychologists talk about gender fluidity I've never put much stock in that. I think those individuals swing (no pun intended) toward being bi-sexual, but that's coming from a layman's point of view, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I also find it disturbing that the idea of ****philia was introduced in this thread. How did it go from BH's admitted bias against gays to ****philia? That's a new one on me. Unless someone is actually hinting that gays are more inclined to be ****philes...are they? From the articles on the Net, the answer seems to be "no". And also for the record, I find the concept of ****philia sickening. That is a truly frightening thing to do to children.OF COURSE there is bias and AGENDA all over the place. There are "credentialed" folks on both sides. (See global warming). I came here to point out a fact about the legal climate on SH claims and got pulled into this in order to defend my broader beliefs. I'm happy to do so, and I stand by them. PS: There are also excellent facts in the articles I posted. List them, unless bias precludes you. ;)

KeepItMoving
05-06-2014, 09:33 AM
I follow a lot of peoples opinions around here, even if I don't agree with them. I like to listen to different opinions on topics so I can make up my own mind. If you close your mind to opinions that differ from your own all you really do is stunt your own personal growth.Again, thanks for your interest.

KeepItMoving
05-06-2014, 09:36 AM
And also for the record, I find the concept of ****philia sickening. That is a truly frightening thing to do to children.There are some well credentialed leaders in the psych field who would consider you ignorant and closed minded. If the "agenda" succeeds, perhaps you will be called hateful for your beliefs. I will stand with you on them.

MrNismo
05-06-2014, 09:37 AM
One day ****philes will be the norm as well just you wait and see
I highly doubt that. Age of consent has gone up to 16-18 in the majority of countries in the world not down.

Any normal person, religious, non-religious, gay or straight will usually agree that children need to be protected not preyed upon but adults. If you really see that opinion changing just because we allow consenting adults to do what they want to do together you made one helluva leap.

bodyhard
05-06-2014, 09:58 AM
Mr Nismo, some people already believe it to be a predisposed gene........go figure..

Just give it time. As one poster stated I hope I am dead by that time.

ajdahlheimer
05-06-2014, 10:08 AM
Age of consent has gone up to 16-18 in the majority of countries....

http://philly.barstoolsports.com/files/2012/12/gun3.gif

Karl_Hungus
05-06-2014, 11:49 AM
Those of you citing the APA (and DSM) as some authoritative source should recognize that the DSM also viewed homosexuality as a mental disorder years ago. Unlike the criteria for valid organic diseases, the criteria for a "disorder" by the APA is somewhat subjective, and its criteria are highly influenced by political tides. As far as "homophobia", that is basically a pop-psychology media term. The logic being that those who are against homosexuality really fear their own latent homosexuality, so they overcompensate with over-the-top anti-gay attitudes. So, everyone who is against homosexuality is really secretly gay? Gimme a break.

I have no animus at all toward gay people, but keepitmoving is correct with respect to the above points.

sy2502
05-06-2014, 12:20 PM
Wow the nerve of some people. Totally justifiable reaction to someone noticing your haircut. You should have beat him within an inch of his life for that. I feel your pain

You know what's even funnier? These are probably the same people who get their panties in a knot when they compliment a female colleague and she gets defensive. They probably go on a rant on how femminazis are ruining this country and need to take a chill pill.

bodyhard
05-06-2014, 12:21 PM
<---------perfect example of a homophobic (as society wants to view me) person who is 100 % straight.

Corbi
05-06-2014, 03:43 PM
This belongs here, took this pic last week in San Franciscos Castro district. I think BH would love to visit the area :D
http://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/10256528_620302048054015_2567783465498389746_n.jpg

KeepItMoving
05-06-2014, 06:01 PM
Those of you citing the APA (and DSM) as some authoritative source should recognize that the DSM also viewed homosexuality as a mental disorder years ago. Unlike the criteria for valid organic diseases, the criteria for a "disorder" by the APA is somewhat subjective, and its criteria are highly influenced by political tides. As far as "homophobia", that is basically a pop-psychology media term. The logic being that those who are against homosexuality really fear their own latent homosexuality, so they overcompensate with over-the-top anti-gay attitudes. So, everyone who is against homosexuality is really secretly gay? Gimme a break.

I have no animus at all toward gay people, but keepitmoving is correct with respect to the above points.Thank you for this post. I tried to be clear that I did NOT make my posts as a person who is hateful, "homophobic (a hateful term), or whatever else I might be labeled and tarred and feathered as in today's PC world. I speak the truth of history. I OWN psych books from the 40's that quote Freud talking about homosexuals as mentally stuck in a sexual growth phase from which they never graduated. That kind of thought today will get you fired from a good paying job!! I HATE POLITICAL CORRECTNESS. Allow free, honest speech and discussion, ESPECIALLY when you disagree with it.

I had a guy here TRY to argue that ancient Yin Yang had NOTHING to do with man/woman as the NATURAL way of being. Water/Fire. Hot/Cold. Hard/Soft. And so it goes. Burn history. Kill free speech as "biased"

KeepItMoving
05-06-2014, 06:05 PM
This belongs here, took this pic last week in San Franciscos Castro district. I think BH would love to visit the area :D
http://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/10256528_620302048054015_2567783465498389746_n.jpg Been there. Had to fight my way out of a bar after some big, gay bodybuilder hit on me, and I told him I was straight. I introduced my Wife to him; he called her a "breeder." It was on! Gays in their element are as oppressive as Nazi's in theirs.

TheBestGunius
05-06-2014, 09:55 PM
I think most who know me here read my thread about my new EA, although the post was not about him, lots of people chime in on the subject.

So brief recap on that thread; I was introduced to my new AE and it turned out it was a man, not a woman which is what I would have thought, and worse yet he was a gay man.

So I have been working with him for some weeks now and while his fruity ways bugs the sh!t out of me, he has to be the most organized, proficient person I have ever worked with.

He also has to be the nicest person I have ever had to deal with in a professional environment.

What I don't like about him are the compliments, (mostly on my clothes) never over the top, but still too much for my taste coming from a man.

When I came in with a shaved head, he went a little too much with the "handsome, sharp, much better than with hair" compliments and I told him.

But all in all it has not been as bad as I thought, this coming from a homophobic person such as myself.

I'd fire you. What the hell is your problem?

TheBestGunius
05-06-2014, 09:55 PM
It's a silly, politically created/politically charged term. Credible psychiatrists do not recognize such a condition. By credible, I mean doctors who are not pushing a liberal agenda. The term has no original nexus to the medical community, none whatsoever. But, thanks for your interest in my words; I know you follow me around here.

Homophobe.

tobymax123
05-06-2014, 10:14 PM
I'd fire you. What the hell is your problem?

Okay kid, you may be only 21, but this is probably the most succinct and best post of this thread, from my viewpoint. BH has been 100% honest about his problem with gay people, but has never explained exactly what that problem is. Someone with that type of inexplicable preconceived prejudice probably should be fired.

TheBestGunius
05-06-2014, 10:18 PM
Okay kid, you may be only 21, but this is probably the most succinct and best post of this thread, from my viewpoint. BH has been 100% honest about his problem with gay people, but has never explained exactly what that problem is. Someone with that type of inexplicable preconceived prejudice probably should be fired.

I'd fire him. Cut and dried. Sterling got fired and he'd get fired.

frozensparky
05-06-2014, 10:51 PM
I OWN psych books from the 40's that quote Freud talking about homosexuals as mentally stuck in a sexual growth phase from which they never graduated.

I own books from before Christopher Columbus that say the worlds flat.

frmrlurkr
05-06-2014, 10:57 PM
You should start peppering thy angus

TheBestGunius
05-06-2014, 11:01 PM
I own books from before Christopher Columbus that say the worlds flat.

You're fired.

GuyJin
05-06-2014, 11:30 PM
I tried to be clear that I did NOT make my posts as a person who is hateful, "homophobic (a hateful term), or whatever else I might be labeled and tarred and feathered as in today's PC world. I speak the truth of history. I OWN psych books from the 40's...

That kind of thought today will get you fired from a good paying job!! I HATE POLITICAL CORRECTNESS. Allow free, honest speech and discussion, ESPECIALLY when you disagree with it. And so it goes. Burn history. Kill free speech as "biased"

---

Right, let's go back to the good ol' days when a white man could call a black man a n---er and/or hang him from the nearest tree. That's free speech and freedom of expression. Let's go back to telling ethnic and racial and homophobic (sorry, just had to use that word) jokes and toss them off as "hey, my opinion, man, so let it go" and while we're at it, let's just go back to the way things were when only the rights and freedoms of the white right-wing majority were allowed to hold sway.

Since you've already Godwinned this thread about equating homosexuals in their environment with Nazis (paraphrased)--and THAT'S a hell of a stretch--allow me.

Your quote above: "I own psych books from the '40's". Fine, I own a first edition of Ben Hur: A Tale of the Christ, but that doesn't mean I believe that Christ existed or if he did, walked on water. Waded through it, sure, but walked on it? Nope, can't be proven. And some of those concepts were downright wrong in those psych books so what are we to make of that?

You "speak the truth of history". Yes, history shaped by those who repressed other ideas, concepts, and certain freedoms of those who lacked the resources to exist on a level playing field or lacked the same opportunities to do anything about it as those in power had. Is that the kind of legacy you want to pass on to others? If it is, you're welcome to it.

As for being PC, here I actually agree with you, as the world has gotten too PC. But at the same time, I offer a very easy trade-off: common sense, something this forum and thread has been largely lacking. If you don't like a certain group--racial, ethnic, religious, sexually oriented, whatever--then keep those damn opinions among like-minded individuals. Believe them if you want, speak of them among each other if you will, but I ain't interested in hearing about it. Quite frankly, unless you're a member of a minority, I doubt you'd ever understand.

Out.

KeepItMoving
05-07-2014, 05:29 AM
I offer a very easy trade-off: common sense, something this forum and thread has been largely lacking. If you don't like a certain group--racial, ethnic, religious, sexually oriented, whatever--then keep those damn opinions among like-minded individuals. Believe them if you want, speak of them among each other if you will, but I ain't interested in hearing about it. Quite frankly, unless you're a member of a minority, I doubt you'd ever understand.

Out.This is the kind of thing a Dictator would say. I say open, free speech for all. Incidentally, a few of the people I love most on this earth are gay. My reasons for visiting San Francisco as often as I did were to visit my gay brother, whom I loved dearly.

GuyJin
05-07-2014, 07:05 AM
This is the kind of thing a Dictator would say. I say open, free speech for all. Incidentally, a few of the people I love most on this earth are gay. My reasons for visiting San Francisco as often as I did were to visit my gay brother, whom I loved dearly.
---

Not at all. A dictator wouldn't allow any dissension. A dictator would not allow an open forum such as this where we can freely air our views (within reason, of course). And a dictator would not allow certain individuals who are not to his liking to post anything at all.

You may love your gay brother dearly and that's fine, but to me it's sorta like loving the sinner but hating the sin or words to that effect. The problem is, hating the sin in the past, then as now, often translated into suppression of rights, freedoms, and personal dignity.

Minotaur
05-07-2014, 07:18 AM
I had a guy here TRY to argue that ancient Yin Yang had NOTHING to do with man/woman as the NATURAL way of being. Water/Fire. Hot/Cold. Hard/Soft.

I am that guy, I remember that post, and you lost the argument. You will lose it again because you try to show you know more about it than someone who practices eastern philosophy and religions and understands them far better than you do.

Yin (yeen) and yang (yahng) have nothing to do with man/woman as the natural way of things. It has to do with complement and supplement; two men together or two women together can have characteristics that complement and supplement each other. You said in that same post we could go toe-to-toe because you studied eastern philosophy and know about it.This is rather long-winded, and took me a while to compose, but in the end, the point it brings is that you should stop running off at the mouth and making yourself look like an ass. I can reference and quote endlessly from the Tao Te Ching, the Dhammapada, the Bhagavad Gita, the Vedas and Upanishads, and a host of other eastern writings and scriptures to prove you wrong. So let's have at it...

Since you know and have studied eastern philosophies you must be familiar with Advaita, Māyā, Kaśmir Śaivism, Brahman, Viśiṣṭādvaita, Śūnyatā, yes? They all indicate, to one degree or another, all diversity subsuming to one underlying unity, inherent emptiness and dependent origin. Christianity has no such philosophies. I presume you are Christian, therefore you cannot use these metaphysics to support your position of what is natural or unnatural.

This is partially because Taoism borrows heavily from Sanātana Dharma, aka Hinduism. Sanātana Dharma, Taoism and Buddhism view all of creation and existence as one, all things being dependent on myriad other things for their existence. It's called dependent origination or dependent arising. What we see around us is only a reflection, emanation or manifestation of Reality. The universe and all of existence is constantly in flux, universes coming into and going out of existence. Christianity is not non-dualÖ God, the soul and reality are not one, and in Christianity, creation is real. It was created, and it will end on the whim of God. Christianity claims that a soul can be created or destroyed. The eastern religions and philosophies do not hold with any of that. Like matter, souls can be neither created nor destroyed. I can and will cite my scriptures to support that: ďNever was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.Ē Bhagavad Gita 2.12. I have plenty more.

On non-duality:


The Taijitu is one of the oldest and best-known life symbols in the world, but few understand its full meaning. It represents one of the most fundamental and profound theories of ancient Taoist philosophy. At its heart are the two poles of existence, which are opposite but complementary. The light, white Yang moving up blends into the dark, black Yin moving down. Yin and Yang are dependent opposing forces that flow in a natural cycle, always seeking balance. Though they are opposing, they are not in opposition to one another. As part of the Tao, they are merely two aspects of a single reality. Each contains the seed of the other, which is why we see a black spot of Yin in the white Yang and vice versa. They do not merely replace each other but actually become each other through the constant flow of the universe.
ó[10]

Hoopes, Aaron (2007). Zen Yoga: A Path to Enlightenment though Breathing, Movement and Meditation. Kodansha International. ISBN 978-4-7700-3047-4.

So what did all that have to do with your ignorance of yin and yang? When all is said and done, you canít use a philosophy diametrically opposed to yours to support your beliefs of what is natural and unnatural, especially when there is no such support. In other words, you canít have your cake and eat it too. A Hindu, Buddhist or Taoist opposed to homosexuality canít even use those philosophies, because they donít bear it out as unnatural; there is nothing scriptural. http://taocurrents.org/2012/01/19/gay-marriage-and-mystical-te/ <-- read it. This is something that those of us who practice these religions and philosophies object to when people attempt to show that they know about something they clearly donít.

Quote the bible, believe in the bible, but donít appeal to philosophies and religions you clearly donít know anything about not even superficially, and which in the end contradict your own beliefs. So if you want to go toe to toe, bring it on. Because I can bring in plenty of sources. Now, can you tell me in truth and with a straight face (no pun intended) that you are a practicing Hindu, Buddhist or Taoist and hold with these philosophies of non-duality and the unity of existence, and what they consider natural and unnatural, real and unreal?

No, I did not think so.

KeepItMoving
05-07-2014, 07:44 AM
it's sorta like loving the sinner but hating the sin.BINGO! And no, it should never result in a suppression of "rights." I am a sinner too, after all.

KeepItMoving
05-07-2014, 07:46 AM
I am that guy, I remember that post, and you lost the argument. You will lose it again because you try to show you know more about it than someone who practices eastern philosophy and religions and understands them far better than you do.

Yin (yeen) and yang (yahng) have nothing to do with man/woman as the natural way of things. It has to do with complement and supplement; two men together or two women together can have characteristics that complement and supplement each other. You said in that same post we could go toe-to-toe because you studied eastern philosophy and know about it.This is rather long-winded, and took me a while to compose, but in the end, the point it brings is that you should stop running off at the mouth and making yourself look like an ass. I can reference and quote endlessly from the Tao Te Ching, the Dhammapada, the Bhagavad Gita, the Vedas and Upanishads, and a host of other eastern writings and scriptures to prove you wrong. So let's have at it...

Since you know and have studied eastern philosophies you must be familiar with Advaita, Māyā, Kaśmir Śaivism, Brahman, Viśiṣṭādvaita, Śūnyatā, yes? They all indicate, to one degree or another, all diversity subsuming to one underlying unity, inherent emptiness and dependent origin. Christianity has no such philosophies. I presume you are Christian, therefore you cannot use these metaphysics to support your position of what is natural or unnatural.

This is partially because Taoism borrows heavily from Sanātana Dharma, aka Hinduism. Sanātana Dharma, Taoism and Buddhism view all of creation and existence as one, all things being dependent on myriad other things for their existence. It's called dependent origination or dependent arising. What we see around us is only a reflection, emanation or manifestation of Reality. The universe and all of existence is constantly in flux, universes coming into and going out of existence. Christianity is not non-dual… God, the soul and reality are not one, and in Christianity, creation is real. It was created, and it will end on the whim of God. Christianity claims that a soul can be created or destroyed. The eastern religions and philosophies do not hold with any of that. Like matter, souls can be neither created nor destroyed. I can and will cite my scriptures to support that: “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” Bhagavad Gita 2.12. I have plenty more.

On non-duality:



So what did all that have to do with your ignorance of yin and yang? When all is said and done, you can’t use a philosophy diametrically opposed to yours to support your beliefs of what is natural and unnatural, especially when there is no such support. In other words, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. A Hindu, Buddhist or Taoist opposed to homosexuality can’t even use those philosophies, because they don’t bear it out as unnatural; there is nothing scriptural. http://taocurrents.org/2012/01/19/gay-marriage-and-mystical-te/ <-- read it. This is something that those of us who practice these religions and philosophies object to when people attempt to show that they know about something they clearly don’t.

Quote the bible, believe in the bible, but don’t appeal to philosophies and religions you clearly don’t know anything about not even superficially, and which in the end contradict your own beliefs. So if you want to go toe to toe, bring it on. Because I can bring in plenty of sources. Now, can you tell me in truth and with a straight face (no pun intended) that you are a practicing Hindu, Buddhist or Taoist and hold with these philosophies of non-duality and the unity of existence, and what they consider natural and unnatural, real and unreal?

No, I did not think so.You have studied this philosophy through your agenda. I think the balance of opposites in the core of the philosophy is as clear as the nose on your face. Use whatever gymnastics you'd like. People argue bible interpretation too. Homosexuality is Un-natural, and this ancient philosophy simply speaks to that. No value judgments, no hate, carry on.

Minotaur
05-07-2014, 07:58 AM
You have studied this philosophy through your agenda. I think the balance of opposites in the core of the philosophy is as clear as the nose on your face. Use whatever gymnastics you'd like. People argue bible interpretation too. Homosexuality is Un-natural, and this ancient philosophy simply speaks to that. No value judgments, no hate, carry on.

I have studied because I practice it. :rolleyes:

How about addressing my points proving you wrong instead of the totally wrong "this ancient philosophy simply speaks to that"? Did you read anything I wrote? :confused:

Old-Time-Lifter
05-07-2014, 09:23 AM
You have studied this philosophy through your agenda. I think the balance of opposites in the core of the philosophy is as clear as the nose on your face. Use whatever gymnastics you'd like. People argue bible interpretation too. Homosexuality is Un-natural, and this ancient philosophy simply speaks to that. No value judgments, no hate, carry on.

Pretty much every species in the animal kingdom engages in same sex relations. If you're looking to St. Paul as guidance as to what is or isn't natural remember that he also stated that long hair was unnatural for a man... trouble is that hair pretty much does only two things by nature, grow or fall out.

Paul obviously wasn't too well versed on natural and unnatural biological behavior.

KeepItMoving
05-07-2014, 10:43 AM
Pretty much every species in the animal kingdom engages in same sex relations. If you're looking to St. Paul as guidance as to what is or isn't natural remember that he also stated that long hair was unnatural for a man... trouble is that hair pretty much does only two things by nature, grow or fall out.

Paul obviously wasn't too well versed on natural and unnatural biological behavior.And there are "credentialed experts" who will tell you that same sex activity in animals is one's attempt to show dominance over the other. (The pitcher is showing dominance to the catcher. I don't know if anyone has commented about wtf animals are doing during analingus!) ;)

I do know that if a species goes gay, it will cease to exist. (Spare me some asexual worm splitting argument, please.)

mslman71
05-07-2014, 10:59 AM
I've seen you say this before. The word is in the oxford, Merriam-Webster and Collins dictionaries and it has a medical definition. I'm not accusing you of anything, or asking what your thoughts on gays are but I am wondering what causes you to believe that it's not a real word or condition.


Racist, radical, extremist, etc. are all real words as well but they are mis-used in common dialog to paint the accused as something which he may or may not be, generally to put him on the defensive and by virtue of not being a 'good person,' by accusation alone, render all of his opinions invalid. While the word itself might have meaning its misuse/overuse has rendered it meaningless.

Karl_Hungus
05-07-2014, 11:18 AM
Pretty much every species in the animal kingdom engages in same sex relations. If you're looking to St. Paul as guidance as to what is or isn't natural remember that he also stated that long hair was unnatural for a man... trouble is that hair pretty much does only two things by nature, grow or fall out.

Paul obviously wasn't too well versed on natural and unnatural biological behavior.

Animals also kill and eat their young and eat their own poo ...... so I am always wary when people look to the animal kingdom to validate human behavior.

Old-Time-Lifter
05-07-2014, 11:21 AM
And there are "credentialed experts" who will tell you that same sex activity in animals is one's attempt to show dominance over the other. (The pitcher is showing dominance to the catcher. I don't know if anyone has commented about wtf animals are doing during analingus!) ;)

I do know that if a species goes gay, it will cease to exist. (Spare me some asexual worm splitting argument, please.)

A species won't go 'gay', sexuality is an individual activity.

The reason why an animal or a human for that matter prefers homosexuality to heterosexuality isn't really a matter of importance in the argument. It simply is, to try and disregard the fact that all animals behave in such a matter (and there are bulls that will only mate with other bulls but they end up at the sale barn) is in some form an argument against homosexuality being a part of the natural world is a false and dishonest argument.

As much as some will find it to be disgusting behavior or be unable to understand it (I personally don't grasp why one would prefer men over women?) does not in any way shape or form disprove or negate the fact that it is a part of the natural world and we need to understand and accept that fact.

latebloomingmom
05-07-2014, 11:22 AM
Animals also kill and eat their young and eat their own poo ...... so I am always wary when people look to the animal kingdom to validate human behavior.
I once went in to help a pre-schooler in the potty
and he decided to take finger painting to a whole new level ..all over the pottie
the walls and the floors :)

Old-Time-Lifter
05-07-2014, 11:26 AM
Animals also kill and eat their young and eat their own poo ...... so I am always wary when people look to the animal kingdom to validate human behavior.

There are humans that eat poo, generally when animals do that it's a result of anxiety or a nutritional deficiency in which case it is a valid behavior. As far as eating ones young I don't see how one can honestly try and balance killing with who you prefer to screw. Again that argument starts to look a bit straw like to me.

BUT, in the wild there would be times when survival might well dictate that a reduction in the number of mouths to be fed would validate such behavior. Sailors stranded in lifeboats have come to this realization all on their own time after time in history.

KeepItMoving
05-07-2014, 11:30 AM
A species won't go 'gay', sexuality is an individual activity.

The reason why an animal or a human for that matter prefers homosexuality to heterosexuality isn't really a matter of importance in the argument. It simply is, to try and disregard the fact that all animals behave in such a matter (and there are bulls that will only mate with other bulls but they end up at the sale barn) is in some form an argument against homosexuality being a part of the natural world is a false and dishonest argument.

As much as some will find it to be disgusting behavior or be unable to understand it (I personally don't grasp why one would prefer men over women?) does not in any way shape or form disprove or negate the fact that it is a part of the natural world and we need to understand and accept that fact.I accept an understand that homosexuality exists within the natural world. So do many other things and activities I believe are Un-natural. I won't list them here because some haters will go off on a tizzy that I'm trying to "equate" these things. Why all the flurry because of my perspective? I have said I love and support gay people. I do not castigate or beat them up, some of those queers are downright bigger than I am!...AND YES I use the term queer as my gay brother in San Francisco did as a term of affection, so don't jump on me for that either! LOL!!

Here's red meat for my haters...I believe homosexuality is a mental illness that carries multiple, typical co-morbidities that manifest themselves in varying degrees in varying individuals. Freud espoused these thoughts before his teachings were scrubbed and erased by agenda driven "scientists" who took power. Now, despite the fact that Psychiatry NEEDS open discussion, you may not utter such thoughts. Depression, manic behavior, and many other co-morbidities are associated with homosexuality. Now, those co-morbitities are blamed upon "societal bigotry." My God, how closed minded we have become. (Apologize for my typo's.)

Karl_Hungus
05-07-2014, 11:42 AM
There are humans that eat poo, generally when animals do that it's a result of anxiety or a nutritional deficiency in which case it is a valid behavior. As far as eating ones young I don't see how one can honestly try and balance killing with who you prefer to screw. Again that argument starts to look a bit straw like to me.


Well, I am not equating them by any stretch. I am just saying that it is always a tenuous connection when trying to judge human behavior based on what happens in the animal kingdom. Using those standards, if I wanted your wife, I would kill you, kill your children, impregnate your wife, and after she bore my offspring, she would eat the afterbirth....and then, I would repeat the process with somebody else's wife. That doesn't sound like a very good standard for human behavior. I'm not saying anything about homosexuality ... Just suggesting that this line of argumentation isn't a very good one if you are discussing appropriate or moral human behavior .

Old-Time-Lifter
05-07-2014, 11:45 AM
I accept an understand that homosexuality exists within the natural world. So do many other things and activities I believe are Un-natural. I won't list them here because some haters will go off on a tizzy that I'm trying to "equate" these things. Why all the flurry because of my perspective? I have said I love and support gay people. I do not castigate or beat them up, some of those queers are downright bigger than I am!...AND YES I use the term queer as my gay brother in San Francisco did as a term of affection, so don't jump on me for that either! LOL!!

Here's red meat for my haters...I believe homosexuality is a mental illness that carries multiple, typical co-morbidities that manifest themselves in varying degrees in varying individuals. Freud espoused these thoughts before his teachings were scrubbed and erased by agenda driven "scientists" who took power. Now, despite the fact that Psychiatry NEEDS open discussion, you may not utter such thoughts. Depression, manic behavior, and many other co-morbidities are associated with homosexuality. Now, those co-morbitities are blamed upon "societal bigotry." My God, how closed minded we have become. (Apologize for my typo's.)

I'm sorry that even though you had a brother that you loved you cannot see through the blinders that you carry.

I have a sister who is homosexual and a large number of dear friends that are gay. I assure you not a one of them suffers from any mental illness.

I do have to chuckle at the closed mind comment, as you know I am a very conservative individual politically yet I can see that this issue makes us conservatives as a group look very, very closed minded.

x-trainer ben
05-07-2014, 11:47 AM
Geezus did this thread go upside down; from gay assistant to analingus, poo, same sex animal sex, to religion and eastern philosophy.

Old-Time-Lifter
05-07-2014, 11:48 AM
Well, I am not equating them by any stretch. I am just saying that it is always a tenuous connection when trying to judge human behavior based on what happens in the animal kingdom. Using those standards, if I wanted your wife, I would kill you, kill your children, impregnate your wife, and after she bore my offspring, she would eat the afterbirth....and then, I would repeat the process with somebody else's wife. That doesn't sound like a very good standard for human behavior. I'm not saying anything about homosexuality ... Just suggesting that this line of argumentation isn't a very good one if you are discussing appropriate or moral human behavior .

The argument is about the claim that it is unnatural. If you don't like to go to the animal kingdom then look at recorded history from all over the world. Homosexuality has been there all along and for most of human history was fully accepted. Heck even the Native Americans had gays and men sometimes were married to them as well as to women. The homosexuals were generally held in higher esteem and were often spiritual leaders.

But I do commend you for going to extremes in trying to disregard that homosexuality is a natural state for some portion of any population. And all of that behavior though currently frowned upon has also occurred in humanity. The reason why killing is immoral is that it robs another human of their most precious thing their life. Trying to equate killing, physical harm and robbery to who one prefers to sleep with (which is no skin off your or anyone else's back) again is beyond tenuous and reeks of the smell of straw.

sy2502
05-07-2014, 11:51 AM
The argument is about the claim that it is unnatural. If you don't like to go to the animal kingdom then look at recorded history from all over the world. Homosexuality has been there all along and for most of human history was fully accepted. Heck even the Native Americans had gays and men sometimes were married to them as well as to women. The homosexuals were generally held in higher esteem and were often spiritual leaders.

India also I believe has a third gender that is treated with much respect.

Humans are part of nature. Everything we do is natural by definition. I wish people would finally get over this "natural/unnatural" crap. There's no "dictionary of natural things to do" out there, so anyone who claims to know what qualifies as natural or unnatural is full of it.

pharmamarketer
05-07-2014, 11:55 AM
Geezus did this thread go upside down; from gay assistant to analingus, poo, same sex animal sex, to religion and eastern philosophy.

You sound surprised. There are people on here that never show up until the word "gay" is uttered. What's great about these arguments is that there is always a clear winner, minds are changed and people think with an open mind.

Karl_Hungus
05-07-2014, 12:01 PM
The argument is about the claim that it is unnatural. If you don't like to go to the animal kingdom then look at recorded history from all over the world. Homosexuality has been there all along and for most of human history was fully accepted. Heck even the Native Americans had gays and men sometimes were married to them as well as to women. The homosexuals were generally held in higher esteem and were often spiritual leaders.

Throughout most of human history, it has also been acceptable to have sex with underage girls. Now, somebody is going to read this and (idiotically) conclude that I am equating homosexuality with ****philia. All I am doing is pointing out how the line of argumentation used to justify or condemn homosexuality is usually flawed ... and that it is really difficult to come up with an objective standard either way. One has to decide for themselves where they derive their moral beliefs and standards .... and looking for objective arguments to condemn or support it usually don't work very well.

Old-Time-Lifter
05-07-2014, 12:09 PM
Throughout most of human history, it has also been acceptable to have sex with underage girls. Now, somebody is going to read this and (idiotically) conclude that I am equating homosexuality with ****philia. All I am doing is pointing out how the line of argumentation used to justify or condemn homosexuality is usually flawed ... and that it is really difficult to come up with an objective standard either way. One has to decide for themselves where they derive their moral beliefs and standards .... and looking for objective arguments to condemn or support it usually don't work very well.

For crying out loud....

AGAIN, you equate an activity between two unequals with a consenting behavior between two equals.

I disagree, if one looks at the way of the world one sees that biologically (genetically) there is a very natural factor involved.

x-trainer ben
05-07-2014, 12:10 PM
You sound surprised. There are people on here that never show up until the word "gay" is uttered. What's great about these arguments is that there is always a clear winner, minds are changed and people think with an open mind.

So is there a word filter and you can type in the word gay and all threads will pop up? Part 2 made me laugh given some of the minds and the superiority issues associated with said egocentric individuals.

frozensparky
05-07-2014, 12:24 PM
While the word itself might have meaning its misuse/overuse has rendered it meaningless.

I agree and I also think the definition (an irrational fear of gays) is wrong as I don't believe people fear gays. Honestly what word could they use for someone who hates gays, homoacist, homobigot, they just don't have the same ring.

I just find it interesting how someone can actually claim it is not a true word when it clearly is. Now if he was saying "ain't" isn't a word I can understand that.

Karl_Hungus
05-07-2014, 12:27 PM
For crying out loud....

AGAIN, you equate an activity between two unequals with a consenting behavior between two equals.

I disagree, if one looks at the way of the world one sees that biologically (genetically) there is a very natural factor involved.

LOL...I went out of my way to point out very clearly that I was not equating them. How can you not understand the point? :confused: Read the post again.



But I do commend you for going to extremes in trying to disregard that homosexuality is a natural state for some portion of any population. And all of that behavior though currently frowned upon has also occurred in humanity. The reason why killing is immoral is that it robs another human of their most precious thing their life. Trying to equate killing, physical harm and robbery to who one prefers to sleep with (which is no skin off your or anyone else's back) again is beyond tenuous and reeks of the smell of straw.

I see you edited your post to add this little tidbit. So, I will edit my post to respond. You are reading your own biases into my posts. I haven't said anything about homosexuality being natural or unnatural. If you read and understood my posts, you will see quite the opposite. I am saying that these lines of argumentation are silly .... and you, looking to the animal kingdom, or what has been culturally acceptable throughout human history, are poor arguments to justify or condemn homosexuality. My entire point is that these arguments inevitably fail and you must decide for yourself from where your morals and standards derive. Throughout this thread, I have said absolutely nothing about whether homosexuality is right or wrong .... only that the way it is argued is kind of silly.

kimm4
05-07-2014, 12:31 PM
Geezus did this thread go upside down; from gay assistant to analingus, poo, same sex animal sex, to religion and eastern philosophy.

Someone please kill this thread with fire...

so-tex
05-07-2014, 12:47 PM
Geezus did this thread go upside down; from gay assistant to analingus, poo, same sex animal sex, to religion and eastern philosophy.Was thinking the same thing.


Someone please kill this thread with fire...Agreed.

Karl_Hungus
05-07-2014, 12:51 PM
Someone please kill this thread with fire...




Agreed.

Done. :D

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/fire_ass.jpg

kimm4
05-07-2014, 01:04 PM
Done. :D

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/fire_ass.jpg

Thank you! :)

Old-Time-Lifter
05-07-2014, 01:17 PM
LOL...I went out of my way to point out very clearly that I was not equating them. How can you not understand the point? :confused: Read the post again.



I see you edited your post to add this little tidbit. So, I will edit my post to respond. You are reading your own biases into my posts. I haven't said anything about homosexuality being natural or unnatural. If you read and understood my posts, you will see quite the opposite. I am saying that these lines of argumentation are silly .... and you, looking to the animal kingdom, or what has been culturally acceptable throughout human history, are poor arguments to justify or condemn homosexuality. My entire point is that these arguments inevitably fail and you must decide for yourself from where your morals and standards derive. Throughout this thread, I have said absolutely nothing about whether homosexuality is right or wrong .... only that the way it is argued is kind of silly.

My comments have been and are directed to the claim that it's unnatural which is wrong, it quite obviously is very natural, hence the reference to the animal kingdom. Now as far as to it being moral I agree we need to determine by whose moral standard you're going to determine . I would caution all Christians though that if you happen to be divorced and remarried or if your church allows divorced folks to marry in your church that theologically you are standing on imho very shaky ground. Clearly Christ FORBID divorce but didn't say a lick about gays.

In the end we likely agree more than not.