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poundXpound
04-23-2014, 02:46 PM
Good op-ed in current Forbes magazine by historian Paul Johnson
http://www.forbes.com/sites/currentevents/2014/04/16/is-vladimir-putin-another-adolf-hitler/

Is Vladimir Putin Another Adolf Hitler?

As Mein Kampf makes clear, Hitler sought to unite all the people of German speech and culture into one state, or Reich, preferably by peaceful nego tiation, otherwise by war and conquest.

To do this Hitler needed to void the provisions of the Treaty of Versailles, which Germany had signed after its defeat in the Great War of 1914-18. First he marched into the Rhineland, which had been demilitarized under the treaty, stationing regular army divisions and tanks there. The Allies–Britain and France–did nothing.

Next Hitler marched into German-speaking Austria–an annexation known as the Anschluss. Having been stripped of their empire and reduced to an insignificant small state, the Austrians were glad to become part of a mighty Reich. Again, the Allies did nothing.

Hitler’s next claim was the Sudetenland. This was a territory on the border of Czechoslovakia inhabited by a German-speaking people who were absorbed into the new state against their will. The Allies allowed this landgrab to stand in an agreement reached at a Munich summit meeting in September 1938. This was regarded as a surrender to Hitler, but British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, who negotiated the agreement, argued that Hitler was merely asserting the rights of the Sudeten Germans, who wanted to belong to his Reich.

The falsity of Chamberlain’s position and Hitler’s deceit were proved within months. The Sudetenland’s annexation had made the Czech frontier indefensible, and in March 1939 Hitler invaded. The Czechs put up no resistance, and the rest of the country fell into Hitler’s hands without a shot being fired.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/currentevents/files/2014/04/670px-bundesarchiv_bild_183-r69173_munchener_abkommen_staatschefs.jpg
From left to right (front): Chamberlain, Daladier, Hitler, Mussolini, and Ciano pictured before signing the Munich Agreement. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Alarmed, the Allies signed a protective treaty with Poland. But Hitler also had claims against the Poles, in particular the German-speaking port of Danzig, which the Versailles Treaty had ceded to the Poles as their “outlet to the sea.” When Hitler invaded Poland in September 1939, the Allies reluctantly fought.

Had the Allies stopped Hitler at the beginning, when he was remilitarizing the Rhineland, he’d have been overthrown and World War II avoided. But the only one pointing this out was Winston Churchill–and his was a lonely voice.

Today’s drift toward war with Russia seems like a replay of the past. Putin is a Russian nationalist, who believes in a strong Stalinist state. His goal is to reverse the events of 1989–the end of the Soviet state and dissolution of its enormous empire. He seeks to do this by using what remains of Russia’s Stalinist heritage: the military, a huge stockpile of nuclear weapons and immense resources of natural gas and other forms of energy. These are powerful tools to wield against the various weak states that were part of the U.S.S.R. None has nuclear weapons, and most are dependent on the (relatively) cheap energy Russia supplies. All have ethnic Russian minorities, who speak the language, boast of their superior Russian culture and claim to have been relegated to second-class citizenship. Putin can rely on these minorities to agitate for Russian intervention whenever he wants–most importantly in the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. His successful annexation of Crimea is greatly encouraging to his long-term plans, and it’s clear he’ll use everything in his power, including military force, to reconstruct his empire.

SHADES OF MUNICH

What’s to stop Putin? The West is led by the modern equivalents of Chamberlain: President François Hollande of France is a political nonentity repudiated by his own compatriots; Prime Minister David Cameron of Britain and Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany have both ruled out the use of force to stop Putin from annexing Ukraine; and worst of all, President Barack Obama–the one man who has the power to stop Putin in his tracks–does nothing. He makes Neville Chamberlain seem like a bellicose activist.

The U.S. is the richest country in the world. Thanks to the fracking revolution, it has the means to meet the energy needs of all the former Soviet states. Its fleets and armies make Russia’s much reduced military power seem puny. It could move troops and aircraft into Ukraine within 24 hours, and its fleets could ensure protection to the Baltic states in a way that Putin would find unanswerable. Yet Obama makes no decisive moves. What ails the man? Is it cowardice? Indecision? A kind of executive paralysis he tends to display when firmness is called for? Clearly there’s something fundamentally wrong with the U.S. President. Meanwhile, Putin, who runs what is, in essence, a second-rate nation with a weak and declining demographic structure, behaves as if he rules the Earth.

Sadly, there is no Churchillian voice to sound the alarm and call the democratic world to action.

Nikonguy
04-23-2014, 03:09 PM
A little early in the game to go there, IMHO.

Galactus
04-23-2014, 03:14 PM
Putin seems to have really taken a liking to Snowden. Is it possible that Snowden, kept a "few aces" up his sleeve, and Putin has some really horrible stuff on Obama, and Obama knows it?

Phattso
04-23-2014, 03:22 PM
Putin is a bully, but he is no Hitler.

Karl_Hungus
04-23-2014, 03:27 PM
Putin is a bully, but he is no Hitler.

Agreed. He is using the same tactics as Hitler to acquire territory, but that is a far cry from death camps and mass extermination/genocide.

so-tex
04-23-2014, 03:32 PM
And then there is China. I agree with Nikon... Little early in the game.

Davdukes4
04-23-2014, 03:33 PM
He is going to be the cause of ww3.

keyboardworkout
04-23-2014, 03:34 PM
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/RebelOnEndor16/PutinFACEPALM.jpg

http://psygo.ru/pics/putin-facepalm.png

http://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/putin.jpg?w=640&h=474

SP1966
04-23-2014, 03:44 PM
http://fundose4u.com/images/Pictures_For_Articles/MemesAndQuotes/2014/adolf-hitler-memes-05.jpg

Brackneyc
04-23-2014, 04:11 PM
Is it possible that Snowden, kept a "few aces" up his sleeve, and Putin has some really horrible stuff on Obama, and Obama knows it?

Doubtful.

whatevergirl
04-23-2014, 04:14 PM
Hitler was a psychopath, I don't see Putin as that.

cowboybiker
04-23-2014, 05:31 PM
I heard Putin doesn't drink water.

Come to think of it, I've never seen a commie drink a glass of water.

Phattso
04-23-2014, 05:54 PM
I heard Putin doesn't drink water.

Come to think of it, I've never seen a commie drink a glass of water.

Correct. Vodka is for hydration in Mother Russia.

mixbwoy
04-23-2014, 09:09 PM
I though Obama was the next Hitler

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/8435/images/167.jpg

or was it Bush

http://www.freewebs.com/write-on-book-club/CARTOON-Nazi-Bush.jpg

aw fuk I don't know.

superman713
04-23-2014, 11:00 PM
I see obama as a much bigger threat than I see Putin.

jeffaus
04-24-2014, 01:50 AM
And then there is China. A peace loving nation if ever there was one. Don't worry Tex, President Xi and I BBQ together every other Saturday arvo. I'll have a quiet word in his ear.

JonnyStead
04-24-2014, 03:25 AM
In my view he is just an ******* - and like all *******s he needs his teeth knocking out to remind him not to be an ******* all the time.

When I read stuff like this - it reaffirms my view

http://www.b b c.co.uk/news/uk-27130125

Seriously if I was the PM and he 'tested' me like this 8 times a year - I'd 'accidentally' shoot down one of his planes and send the pilot back home to him in a box - and make it clear to the Russian people why I did and ask whether that's the guy they want to stand behind. I'd also make non-reliance on Russian gas a priority and send them back to the f**king stone age with crippling sanctions until the will of the Russian people is strong enough to elect a semi-sane President -

But that's just me -

** For some reason the site is censoring the use of a B B C url - I know not why -

go2HELLdook
04-24-2014, 08:08 AM
Once KGB...ALWAYS KGB.

Tmax55
04-24-2014, 12:37 PM
It's a short list of historical figures that truly bear comparison with that monster. Although his tactics on Ukraine resemble Hitler's tactics annexing countries, that's where the comparison ends. Pol Pot, Stalin, and Bonaparte are three that created huge wars or killed millions of people, and I think the comparison is more valid with them.

Espi1971
04-24-2014, 01:04 PM
I just want that guy GONE.

I will say that if we could learn from history, it's that you have to check dictators EARLY and you gotta him check 'em HARD.
When Hitler invaded Poland, the French and English svucked the guy's cock and ignored the affront--which then led to Hitler conquering Czechoslovakia. And Belgium. And bombing the shiat our England. And conquering France, etc.

Nothing is more powerful than for a guy like Putin to amass troops with no consequences. He needs to be biatch-slapped. NOW.

Problem is, Russia is a formidable opponent--they are not Grenada or the Falkland Islands. So a coup or a covert assassination on Putin might be the least worst alternative.

If this were Iraq and Kuwait, or Isreal and Egypt, our troops would probably be amassed by now.

Maybe there has to be more at stake before we do something.

Espi1971
04-24-2014, 01:05 PM
He is going to be the cause of ww3.

Agreed.

weiss1967
04-24-2014, 01:38 PM
food for thoughts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_of_the_Light_Brigade

Putin is brilliant leader, he capitalised on situation in Ukraine 100%, just like he did during little conflict in Georgia in 2008. You fellas do not know, and I don't blame you. Only those who can speak russian and ukrainian anв english can see how you all being fed shiт with the spoon. Things taken out of context, and played. Better discuss idiocy of your fokked up leadership here on this continent. In Africa people are dying by thousands in muslim-christians conflict, and nobody seem to want to stop them. And why? Because there is no money to be made on this conflict in Africa, I am talking CAR particularly. But Ukraine is something different, globalisation needs new borrowers and buyers, and Ukraine can be played and made into nice little slave.

Anyways, comparing Putin to Hitler is moronic. Just read your posts gentlemen, it is all emotions, you are being played, same like you were before going to Kuveit and Iraq and Afghan. Now that there is nothing left of them, the need for a new target brings about the most ludicrous ideas, like Ukraine for example.

so-tex
04-24-2014, 01:48 PM
Me personally...I'm more worried about our own leaders.

keyboardworkout
04-24-2014, 02:37 PM
All major conflicts this century (can include the last decade of the last century) will be over resources.

Oil and natural gas are the headliners right now but they will soon be followed by fresh water and farmland.

Putin is doing everything possible to protect Russia's income stream from Gazprom. The West is doing everything possible to thwart that (see Libya, Syria, Ukraine).

60% of China's groundwater is unsafe to drink. Guess what China is soon going to be looking for.

tomnationwide
04-24-2014, 03:06 PM
Yes in the land grab.

No in the "what about the gas chambers and mass slaughtering of the Jews or inferior races" portions.

So overall no.

beachguy498
04-25-2014, 05:33 AM
And then there is China. I agree with Nikon... Little early in the game.

China is the wild card. If Putin has them in his back pocket, anything is possible.

whatevergirl
04-25-2014, 05:52 AM
Something very similar about these two is that Hitler, like Putin, thought his nation was being humiliated and sought to "correct" that (in addition to other reasons Hitler wanted to take over the world)

I see a main difference though as Putin just seems like a scheming weasel while Hitler, despite being a mad man, was a very charismatic and intelligent leader. Not to say Putin should just be ignored but just of what I've read and heard, he lacks some qualities that Hitler had to be able to master mind what he did.

Just my $.02 :cool:

lotusdeva
04-25-2014, 06:20 AM
food for thoughts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_of_the_Light_Brigade

Putin is brilliant leader, he capitalised on situation in Ukraine 100%, just like he did during little conflict in Georgia in 2008. You fellas do not know, and I don't blame you. Only those who can speak russian and ukrainian anв english can see how you all being fed shiт with the spoon. Things taken out of context, and played. Better discuss idiocy of your fokked up leadership here on this continent. In Africa people are dying by thousands in muslim-christians conflict, and nobody seem to want to stop them. And why? Because there is no money to be made on this conflict in Africa, I am talking CAR particularly. But Ukraine is something different, globalisation needs new borrowers and buyers, and Ukraine can be played and made into nice little slave.

Anyways, comparing Putin to Hitler is moronic. Just read your posts gentlemen, it is all emotions, you are being played, same like you were before going to Kuveit and Iraq and Afghan. Now that there is nothing left of them, the need for a new target brings about the most ludicrous ideas, like Ukraine for example.

Amen to that. You have to understand Russian history to know that Russia needs someone like Putin. It needs a strong leader who is going to take Russia in a right direction. If Putin is Hitler, then Bush is Mussolini for going after non-existent nukes in Iraq.

beachguy498
04-25-2014, 06:25 AM
Something very similar about these two is that Hitler, like Putin, thought his nation was being humiliated and sought to "correct" that (in addition to other reasons Hitler wanted to take over the world)

I see a main difference though as Putin just seems like a scheming weasel while Hitler, despite being a mad man, was a very charismatic and intelligent leader. Not to say Putin should just be ignored but just of what I've read and heard, he lacks some qualities that Hitler had to be able to master mind what he did.

Just my $.02 :cool:

Hitler came about when things were very desperate for the Germans. They saw him as a way to pull them back up again. Things were fairly desperate for Russia circa 1989 and some years after that. They were too fragmented to pull anything together.. until the past few years. What can't be ignored is that Putin is a powerful leader and he's got some muscle and people to back it up. While he may never go full-Hitler he has the potential to keep on going until either he's happy with where he is.. or gets stopped.

Nobody is eager to step up to put Putin in his place as it would get real ugly real fast. The US has the power, but we're spread too thin tilting at other windmills and our leader is a pu$$y.

Rob

eomrat
04-25-2014, 06:32 AM
I will say that if we could learn from history.......When Hitler invaded Poland, the French and English svucked the guy's cock and ignored the affront--which then led to Hitler conquering Czechoslovakia..

Was that before or after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

LOL at you helping us learn from history.


Hint - Germany invaded Poland AFTER Czechoslovakia, And Britain and France didn't give Hitler oral sex when he invaded Poland, they declared war.

whatevergirl
04-25-2014, 06:34 AM
food for thoughts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_of_the_Light_Brigade

Putin is brilliant leader, he capitalised on situation in Ukraine 100%, just like he did during little conflict in Georgia in 2008. You fellas do not know, and I don't blame you. Only those who can speak russian and ukrainian anв english can see how you all being fed shiт with the spoon. Things taken out of context, and played. Better discuss idiocy of your fokked up leadership here on this continent. In Africa people are dying by thousands in muslim-christians conflict, and nobody seem to want to stop them. And why? Because there is no money to be made on this conflict in Africa, I am talking CAR particularly. But Ukraine is something different, globalisation needs new borrowers and buyers, and Ukraine can be played and made into nice little slave.

Anyways, comparing Putin to Hitler is moronic. Just read your posts gentlemen, it is all emotions, you are being played, same like you were before going to Kuveit and Iraq and Afghan. Now that there is nothing left of them, the need for a new target brings about the most ludicrous ideas, like Ukraine for example.

Bolded part, excellent point. Sad, but very true. :(


Hitler came about when things were very desperate for the Germans. They saw him as a way to pull them back up again. Things were fairly desperate for Russia circa 1989 and some years after that. They were too fragmented to pull anything together.. until the past few years. What can't be ignored is that Putin is a powerful leader and he's got some muscle and people to back it up. While he may never go full-Hitler he has the potential to keep on going until either he's happy with where he is.. or gets stopped.

Nobody is eager to step up to put Putin in his place as it would get real ugly real fast. The US has the power, but we're spread too thin tilting at other windmills and our leader is a pu$$y.

Rob

Good comments as well! Do you see the US as weak right now? (the gov't) Do you think it is wise for the US to get involved here?
We are spread very thin, so I don't know.

I like the commentary here in the ov35 misc better than mainstream news. lol

beachguy498
04-25-2014, 07:17 AM
Bolded part, excellent point. Sad, but very true. :(

Good comments as well! Do you see the US as weak right now? (the gov't) Do you think it is wise for the US to get involved here?
We are spread very thin, so I don't know.

I like the commentary here in the ov35 misc better than mainstream news. lol

I do see the US as coming off weak by squandering valuable resources in untenable conflicts such as Afghanistan and Iraq. Nuff said... time to move on. We don't seem to grasp that the Afghans brought Russia to their knees. How long can we hold on there?

If there is anything to be done in Europe, it should be a collective NATO effort and not a sole US effort. But we would be most likely calling the shots. I think if there was a strong enough NATO showing, Putin would stand down. Definitely a partial crap-shoot that something could happen and it would go off on an unexpected tangent real fast.

Rob

so-tex
04-25-2014, 07:22 AM
China is the wild card. If Putin has them in his back pocket, anything is possible.
It sounds like China is now attempting to make a land grab as well.

beachguy498
04-25-2014, 07:28 AM
It sounds like China is now attempting to make a land grab as well.

There is definitely a shift in China's foreign policy going on. The latest being the beef with Japan over Diaoyu Island, and the ongoing Taiwan and Phillippine squabbles.

thomashenry
04-25-2014, 08:18 AM
There is definitely a shift in China's foreign policy going on. The latest being the beef with Japan over Diaoyu Island, and the ongoing Taiwan and Phillippine squabbles. Not too worry, Mighty Mouth has got their back, he has a pen and a phone ya know

weiss1967
04-25-2014, 05:25 PM
let me sum it up for all of you folks. I am sure if the situation was reversed, you will be fully supportive to your leadership for making bold and extremelly effective move like the one Putin did in Crimea. Timing was right, Ukraine is in hands of some bandits, guerillas who calls themselves government, and Crimea was always part of Russia. Well, for last 200 years or so. It was changing hands throughout the history, being Greek mostly. Cities like Foros, Feodosia and so forth - those are ancient Greek names. It was also part of Turkish Osman empire at some point, and even Tartars who at the time took half the globe. There was no US at the time to stop their expanding LoL.

Just for you to know, Crimea was given to Ukraine for purely administrative purposes, sometime in the middle of the last century by USSR leader at that time who was also part Ukrainian. I am talking Nikita Khrustchev. At the time nobody ever could think of Ukraine becoming a separate identity, state on its own as it i now. At the time it was like governing Idaho from Seattle or Salt Lake, I know it is somewhat hard to grasp but I can't think of easier way to bring the point across.

Now, for a moment imagine lives of locals in Crimea. Russia brings them stability and simply put, better life. Elders will get good old age pension and medical care. Something they realy need. So for them the choise was easy, they speak russian, they call themelves russians, and now they have a chance to get russian passports. It was like asking Puerto Ricans for example, if they want to be part of US or Gaithi?

So, for all, can you please calm fokking down and look for trouble somewhere else

CaptChip40
04-25-2014, 06:19 PM
I though Obama was the next Hitler

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/8435/images/167.jpg

Was gonna rep until……….



http://www.freewebs.com/write-on-book-club/CARTOON-Nazi-Bush.jpg

aw fuk I don't know.

I saw this.

NorwichGrad
04-25-2014, 07:14 PM
I see obama as a much bigger threat than I see Putin.

I disagree!! obama is the messiah. he is the one. he is the great uniter. we don't need no stinkin' 3 branches of government to keep the balance of power. the three branches of government is obama - his daily executive orders, his pen, and his teleprompter. he said that the US Constitution, which is the same sacred document that made this country great, is "fundamentally flawed." and I agree with him. we should give up our inalienable rights and bow to dear leader because he will take care of us.

NorwichGrad
04-25-2014, 07:20 PM
let me sum it up for all of you folks. I am sure if the situation was reversed, you will be fully supportive to your leadership for making bold and extremelly effective move like the one Putin did in Crimea. Timing was right, Ukraine is in hands of some bandits, guerillas who calls themselves government, and Crimea was always part of Russia. Well, for last 200 years or so. It was changing hands throughout the history, being Greek mostly. Cities like Foros, Feodosia and so forth - those are ancient Greek names. It was also part of Turkish Osman empire at some point, and even Tartars who at the time took half the globe. There was no US at the time to stop their expanding LoL.

Just for you to know, Crimea was given to Ukraine for purely administrative purposes, sometime in the middle of the last century by USSR leader at that time who was also part Ukrainian. I am talking Nikita Khrustchev. At the time nobody ever could think of Ukraine becoming a separate identity, state on its own as it i now. At the time it was like governing Idaho from Seattle or Salt Lake, I know it is somewhat hard to grasp but I can't think of easier way to bring the point across.

Now, for a moment imagine lives of locals in Crimea. Russia brings them stability and simply put, better life. Elders will get good old age pension and medical care. Something they realy need. So for them the choise was easy, they speak russian, they call themelves russians, and now they have a chance to get russian passports. It was like asking Puerto Ricans for example, if they want to be part of US or Gaithi?

So, for all, can you please calm fokking down and look for trouble somewhere else


THANK YOU!

President Putin is only doing what any 19th century American President would have done. He loves Russia and the Russian people. (I wish I could say the same about the temporary occupant in the White House regarding the American People.) I would rather swap presidents and have Putin the POTUS. The only problem with swapping is that the Russians will end up with the commie.

so-tex
04-25-2014, 07:27 PM
THANK YOU!

President Putin is only doing what any 19th century American President would have done. He loves Russia and the Russian people. (I wish I could say the same about the temporary occupant in the White House regarding the American People.) I would rather swap presidents and have Putin the POTUS. The only problem with swapping is that the Russians will end up with the commie.Exactly. In Putin, you have a leader who loves his country. In Obumbles, well what can I say.

Tmax55
04-25-2014, 07:45 PM
Not too worry, Mighty Mouth has got their back, he has a pen and a phone ya know

He has a pencil too, that he props up that void that holds up his bike helmet.

Yes, that makes me a meathead, but a man's neck should have some muscle to it and his doesn't.

Tmax55
04-25-2014, 07:49 PM
I just want that guy GONE.

I will say that if we could learn from history, it's that you have to check dictators EARLY and you gotta him check 'em HARD.
When Hitler invaded Poland, the French and English svucked the guy's cock and ignored the affront--which then led to Hitler conquering Czechoslovakia. And Belgium. And bombing the shiat our England. And conquering France, etc.

Nothing is more powerful than for a guy like Putin to amass troops with no consequences. He needs to be biatch-slapped. NOW.

Problem is, Russia is a formidable opponent--they are not Grenada or the Falkland Islands. So a coup or a covert assassination on Putin might be the least worst alternative.

If this were Iraq and Kuwait, or Isreal and Egypt, our troops would probably be amassed by now.

Maybe there has to be more at stake before we do something.

While I agree about checking dictators early, Hitler took on the Czechs before he invaded Poland, after Neville chamberlain "guaranteed them" which is why hitler thought nothing would happen when he invaded Poland.

COMP999
04-25-2014, 09:11 PM
Cliven Bundy is another Adolph Hitler.

BloodySalad
04-26-2014, 03:52 AM
Exactly. In Putin, you have a leader who loves his country.

Do you bollocks.

In Putin you have a leader who is doing nothing but protecting the huge amounts of money he and his close circle have creamed off from his country. It's estimated that his personal wealth is estimated to be between $40 and $70 billion. Not bad for someone who supposedly only earns $155,000 a year.

http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2012/04/19/putin-the-richest-man-on-earth/

so-tex
04-26-2014, 09:14 AM
Do you bollocks.

In Putin you have a leader who is doing nothing but protecting the huge amounts of money he and his close circle have creamed off from his country. It's estimated that his personal wealth is estimated to be between $40 and $70 billion. Not bad for someone who supposedly only earns $155,000 a year.

http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2012/04/19/putin-the-richest-man-on-earth/Putin does nothing different than our leaders do as far as money goes. Do you think our presidents live on their $400,000 year salary? :rolleyes:

ISAID69
04-26-2014, 09:29 AM
Well we all know that the relationship the US has with Russia is quite MAD (mutually assured destruction) - So in light of this both countries go about looking after their countries best interests in the best way possible without stepping on too many toes. I see nothing too alarmist here, same old same old. Putin has no choice but to keep the Ukraine which borders his country as a buffer to the West and the West will always try and get as many NATO countries to camp on Russia's borders. World war 3? Nope, too many domestic economics to take care of.

BloodySalad
04-27-2014, 05:09 AM
Putin does nothing different than our leaders do as far as money goes. Do you think our presidents live on their $400,000 year salary? :rolleyes:

I'm not biased as I think US politics sucks but you cannot even begin to compare the sums of money Putin has stolen with the cash which US Presidents have earned from their office.
IIRC, US presidents also have to declare any extra income. Putin declared a total worth of around $200,000.

MartinMaggie
04-27-2014, 06:03 AM
Sure he is, all together with his organisation, who is all about love\peace\prosperity providing. Go on, keep glorifying KGB('ist).


Exactly. In Putin, you have a leader who loves his country. In Obumbles, well what can I say.

so-tex
04-27-2014, 01:35 PM
Sure he is, all together with his organisation, who is all about love\peace\prosperity providing. Go on, keep glorifying KGB('ist).I can understand where you are coming from being where you are. Putin is simply doing what is best for Mother Russia. I'm not saying it is right at all.

MartinMaggie
04-27-2014, 03:20 PM
Putin is preparing for much bigger event than Crimea. Crimea is prelude to what he really wants. He invested to Ukraine through Janukovitsh, who was to win presidential campaign in 2015, ofcourse by faking \ repressing \ whatever way (think of Yulia Tõmošenko), but Janukovitsh got scared and escaped from Ukraine to Russia, taking part of those investments with him (billions of dollars).

Then in 2015, Janukovitsh was ment to organise referendums to "legally" join Russia. But because of maidan, he escaped Ukraine and is now held in arrest in Russia.

Putin was not ready for these events yet and because of maidan, power shifting to "west", he had to act.
Only way to invade "legally" was to "defend russians" there, so he sent his bandits to create havoc and destabilise Ukraine.
What he really wants are war factories in east Ukraine, because they don't produce enough by themselves to make war. Ships they buy from west, software to operate their P-36M2 from west, also chopper and ship engines from Ukraine, also rocket engines for less military purpose space projects in their Kazakhstan space port, ec.

Danger of further aggression is huge and it will happen. After this, Putin puts up some puppet goverment in Ukraine, who will nationalise those factories and will hand them over to Russia as "cost" for waging war and losing. Then they will transfer these to Russia, like they did on WW2, when germans were coming.

After this is done, Putin has gained war assets and knowhow and Ukraine has become federalised by Russia. Or kind of Transnistrian Republic. Under Moscow control, but still "sovereign, independent country". And west then has to rebuild Ukraine, just because we can't leave them to die. This has already happened there, orchestrated by Stalin, search Holodomor for more details.

What scares me is why they want those war factories there.

Putin cares only about himself, not his country nor he's people. Thats why sanctions to Russia have been ineffective. He just does not care when simple Ivans suffer. Those in power will always survive sanctions, but simple people will not. But misery of common people has never been problem for Russian goverment. This is why they have no speech\press freedom, no true elections, ec.

so-tex
04-27-2014, 06:25 PM
Putin is preparing for much bigger event than Crimea. Crimea is prelude to what he really wants. He invested to Ukraine through Janukovitsh, who was to win presidential campaign in 2015, ofcourse by faking \ repressing \ whatever way (think of Yulia Tõmošenko), but Janukovitsh got scared and escaped from Ukraine to Russia, taking part of those investments with him (billions of dollars).

Then in 2015, Janukovitsh was ment to organise referendums to "legally" join Russia. But because of maidan, he escaped Ukraine and is now held in arrest in Russia.

Putin was not ready for these events yet and because of maidan, power shifting to "west", he had to act.
Only way to invade "legally" was to "defend russians" there, so he sent his bandits to create havoc and destabilise Ukraine.
What he really wants are war factories in east Ukraine, because they don't produce enough by themselves to make war. Ships they buy from west, software to operate their P-36M2 from west, also chopper and ship engines from Ukraine, also rocket engines for less military purpose space projects in their Kazakhstan space port, ec.

Danger of further aggression is huge and it will happen. After this, Putin puts up some puppet goverment in Ukraine, who will nationalise those factories and will hand them over to Russia as "cost" for waging war and losing. Then they will transfer these to Russia, like they did on WW2, when germans were coming.

After this is done, Putin has gained war assets and knowhow and Ukraine has become federalised by Russia. Or kind of Transnistrian Republic. Under Moscow control, but still "sovereign, independent country". And west then has to rebuild Ukraine, just because we can't leave them to die. This has already happened there, orchestrated by Stalin, search Holodomor for more details.

What scares me is why they want those war factories there.

Putin cares only about himself, not his country nor he's people. Thats why sanctions to Russia have been ineffective. He just does not care when simple Ivans suffer. Those in power will always survive sanctions, but simple people will not. But misery of common people has never been problem for Russian goverment. This is why they have no speech\press freedom, no true elections, ec.I really appreciate this post. Everybody needs to read this whether they agree or not. (I'm taking this very seriously since you have lived it). I don't think there is a country in this world who can trust their leader.

weiss1967
04-27-2014, 11:32 PM
...And west then has to rebuild Ukraine, just because we can't leave them to die...

OMG, I went all emotional, how cute, people-loving financial world of the west will save Ukrainians from neo-holodomor... Great post, keep pumping, you have a talent.

MartinMaggie
04-28-2014, 02:10 AM
You are correct on this, weiss1967. There will be "free money" for Ukraine, but insignificant amount in relation of debts their goverment has to take to rebuild. Then again Russia gives loans cheaper, their capital\funds flows to Ukraine, what is built there will be owned\controlled by russians, thus increasing Russias economical control over Ukraine.

There is no good outcome for average ukrainian :|


OMG, I went all emotional, how cute, people-loving financial world of the west will save Ukrainians from neo-holodomor... Great post, keep pumping, you have a talent.

moneysmoney
04-29-2014, 05:58 AM
A little early in the game to go there, IMHO.

What's your salary?

moneysmoney
04-29-2014, 05:59 AM
Bolded part, excellent point. Sad, but very true. :(



Good comments as well! Do you see the US as weak right now? (the gov't) Do you think it is wise for the US to get involved here?
We are spread very thin, so I don't know.

I like the commentary here in the ov35 misc better than mainstream news. lol

What's your salary?

BloodySalad
04-29-2014, 09:53 AM
Putin is simply doing what is best for Mother Russia.

Putin is doing what's right for Putin.

All this crap is about re-election and holding on to power. It was the same situation when he went into Chechnya (which got him elected in the first place) and it was the same when he invaded Georgia (under the guise of his puppet Medevdev, 2 months before the election of 2008) - all for votes. Sure, the next election in Russia isn't for another 4 years but prior to the Ukrainian intervention, Putin was starting to get a lot of dissent back home. Dude's been having to jail dissidents left, right and centre and that wasn't boding well for seeing his term out - the man in the street was starting to turn on him. Nothing like a decent military confrontation to get the public on your side - especially in Russia.

It doesn't matter how bad a leader is at managing the economy or running the country as long as they're seen to stand up for Mother Russia they'll get that vote. Russians love "strong" leaders like no other country. Case in point: Stalin. A black joke of the later Soviet period: "Who was Adolf Hitler?" Answer: "A petty dictator who lived in the time of Joseph Stalin."
Yet there's a man literally responsible for the deaths of millions of Russians but with a present day approval rating higher than any Western politician's. Ask them who the greatest Tsars were and the answer will always be Peter the Great or Ivan the Terrible. Again, these guys were tyrants.

Putin knows that if he isn't re-elected or if he can't at least install a puppet govt. which is answerable to him, he and his mates are going to jail for corruption.
Look strong, keep getting re-elected and the problem disappears for a while. If the sh*t hits the fan at home, Putin will simply look for enemies abroad - that will always make him look stronger.

lotusdeva
04-29-2014, 11:31 AM
Putin is preparing for much bigger event than Crimea. Crimea is prelude to what he really wants. He invested to Ukraine through Janukovitsh, who was to win presidential campaign in 2015, ofcourse by faking \ repressing \ whatever way (think of Yulia Tõmošenko), but Janukovitsh got scared and escaped from Ukraine to Russia, taking part of those investments with him (billions of dollars).

Then in 2015, Janukovitsh was ment to organise referendums to "legally" join Russia. But because of maidan, he escaped Ukraine and is now held in arrest in Russia.

Putin was not ready for these events yet and because of maidan, power shifting to "west", he had to act.
Only way to invade "legally" was to "defend russians" there, so he sent his bandits to create havoc and destabilise Ukraine.
What he really wants are war factories in east Ukraine, because they don't produce enough by themselves to make war. Ships they buy from west, software to operate their P-36M2 from west, also chopper and ship engines from Ukraine, also rocket engines for less military purpose space projects in their Kazakhstan space port, ec.

Danger of further aggression is huge and it will happen. After this, Putin puts up some puppet goverment in Ukraine, who will nationalise those factories and will hand them over to Russia as "cost" for waging war and losing. Then they will transfer these to Russia, like they did on WW2, when germans were coming.

After this is done, Putin has gained war assets and knowhow and Ukraine has become federalised by Russia. Or kind of Transnistrian Republic. Under Moscow control, but still "sovereign, independent country". And west then has to rebuild Ukraine, just because we can't leave them to die. This has already happened there, orchestrated by Stalin, search Holodomor for more details.

What scares me is why they want those war factories there.

Putin cares only about himself, not his country nor he's people. Thats why sanctions to Russia have been ineffective. He just does not care when simple Ivans suffer. Those in power will always survive sanctions, but simple people will not. But misery of common people has never been problem for Russian goverment. This is why they have no speech\press freedom, no true elections, ec.

It's interesting how President of Latvia said exactly this last week - that Russia somehow 'destabilized' Ukraine. And you are from Estonia :) Anyways, Ukraine destabilized Ukraine and it needs to take responsibility for it. Timoshenko or Jankovich both are bandits from a big road, as they say in Russia. Both stole millions from their country. Not to mention that for centuries Ukraine depended on Russia (on its natural resources, economic status, military, etc). Russians stopped Napoleon in 1812 and smashed Nazis in WWII, losing close to 30 million people in the latter war. 300 years of being together, after all :) Yet, now that chit hit the fan Ukraine is somehow destabilized by Russia. The truth is Ukraine is a poor country and it can’t make it on its own, not yet anyway. So it needs either EU/US or Russia to help, as BIG help, billions help. Will this money go to the people of Ukraine? Nop. Why is US so interested in Ukraine? Does it want to help its ‘freedom fighters’ to free the people of Ukraine from Russia’s oppressive government? Or does it want to install its military bases so close to Russia? Hmm, let me think…Oh, btw, anyone know what these ‘freedom fighters’ – aka banderovzi did during WWII? They sided with Nazis and went on to participate in the ethnic cleansing of Poles, Jews and Russians.

Finally, I doubt sanctions against Russia are going to hurt in the long run. If anything, Russia will be forced to strengthen its alliances with non-Western countries (India, China, Latin America).

BloodySalad
04-29-2014, 12:43 PM
Oh, btw, anyone know what these ‘freedom fighters’ – aka banderovzi did during WWII? They sided with Nazis and went on to participate in the ethnic cleansing of Poles, Jews and Russians.


Putin propaganda.

When the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union, most of the inhabitants welcomed them at first. They saw them as liberators freeing them from Stalin and hoped that the end result would be independence for their countries - especially in the Baltic states. Hitler screwed that goodwill up by treating them as "untermensch" who were in the way of the German need for "lebansraum". If he'd gone down the "hearts and minds" route, there's even the chance that the war would have turned out differently. But until the Nazis showed their true face, people from all of the Soviet territory the Germans took over partook in ethnic cleansing - not just the Ukranians. That includes the Russians themselves.
And let's not forget Russian collaboration with the Nazis at the highest level - aka: the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact which led directly to the German/Soviet invasion of Poland wghich was then followed by genocide perpetrated by both invading forces.

That's not saying that some Ukranians did not collaborate with the Nazis. But in the grand scheme of things and when compared to the bigger picture, it really isn't anything out of the ordinary and certainly nothing compared to what the Russians did.

MartinMaggie
04-29-2014, 01:14 PM
Thanks for compliment, it takes three additional languages and and true press freedom to to be as well informed as President of Latvia. I take liberty not to comment on rest of your statements here, we get our information obviously from very different sources and could not come to agreement regardless of efforts.


It's interesting how President of Latvia said exactly this last week - that Russia somehow 'destabilized' Ukraine. And you are from Estonia :)

TruKnight
04-29-2014, 01:27 PM
not hitler, but is definitely at soviet premier power levels, just with democratic window dressing

lotusdeva
04-29-2014, 02:51 PM
Putin propaganda.

When the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union, most of the inhabitants welcomed them at first. They saw them as liberators freeing them from Stalin and hoped that the end result would be independence for their countries - especially in the Baltic states. Hitler screwed that goodwill up by treating them as "untermensch" who were in the way of the German need for "lebansraum". If he'd gone down the "hearts and minds" route, there's even the chance that the war would have turned out differently. But until the Nazis showed their true face, people from all of the Soviet territory the Germans took over partook in ethnic cleansing - not just the Ukranians. That includes the Russians themselves.
And let's not forget Russian collaboration with the Nazis at the highest level - aka: the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact which led directly to the German/Soviet invasion of Poland wghich was then followed by genocide perpetrated by both invading forces.

That's not saying that some Ukranians did not collaborate with the Nazis. But in the grand scheme of things and when compared to the bigger picture, it really isn't anything out of the ordinary and certainly nothing compared to what the Russians did.

Umm, what? When Nazis invaded Soviet Union, Russians fought, loosing millions in the process. They were some elements that joined Nazi army initially (Vlasov army, for example). Most of these were ethnically non-Russian. Kuban Kazahs were Ukranian, Kalmykian Corps were Mongol – do you mean those? Yes, Stalin was a dictator who sent millions to the concentration camps (Russians, Jews, Georgians, Belorussians, Ukrainians). He did not discriminate, even refusing to exchange his own son who got captured by Germans. Stalin was a monster, just as Hitler was. However, that does not mean that ‘most of the inhabitants of the Soviet Union welcomed Nazis at first’. Most fought, either joining the army or forming Partisany forces.

It is a known historical fact that Western Ukraine (banderovzi) cooperated with Nazis in the most enthusiastic way, so to speak. They didn’t just ‘welcome’ Nazi troops, they actually became part of SS (read about Galicia Division – aka Ukrainian National Army). Close to million Jews were killed in Ukraine during German occupation, many of which were killed by Ukrainian forces. It amazes me though how US media is downplaying the role of present Ukrainian parties (Svoboda, Right Sector, etc) because it is not convenient to reveal to the general population the history behind the movement. Not just past history, but also its present – read up on links between Svoboda, Jobbik (Hungry), Belgium’s National Front and France’s National Front. All these organizations are ultra racist and anti-Semitic.

eomrat
04-29-2014, 03:28 PM
It amazes me though how US media is downplaying the role of present Ukrainian parties (Svoboda, Right Sector, etc) because it is not convenient......

It's not a question of convenience. Very, very few members of the American "media" could even name a political party in the Ukraine. Very few could even find the Ukraine on a map. They are, almost entirely, a collection of silly buffoons. To expect them to do research is expecting way too much from them.

Brackneyc
04-29-2014, 04:19 PM
It's not a question of convenience. Very, very few members of the American "media" could even name a political party in the Ukraine. Very few could even find the Ukraine on a map. They are, almost entirely, a collection of silly buffoons. To expect them to do research is expecting way too much from them.

I played a lot of Risk growing up. Geography ftw.

keyboardworkout
04-29-2014, 04:31 PM
It is a known historical fact that Western Ukraine (banderovzi) cooperated with Nazis in the most enthusiastic way, so to speak.

Very impressed with your knowledge of history.

A hot woman who knows WWII history, incredible.

weiss1967
04-29-2014, 08:50 PM
Very impressed with your knowledge of history.

A hot woman who knows WWII history, incredible.

she is right. Western Ukraine is further from Russians ethnically, newer really accepted commies whey came to power and were first to change colour when Hitler invaded. Total number of Ukrainian troops serving under Hitler was over a million. Berfore the gas chambers, when jews had to be rounded up "old style" one bullet at a time, most executions were conducted by willing collaborationists, mostly ukrainians. These are little known facts. And lets just not talk about Lithuanians here, who are part Germans to begin with. But we are getting too carried away here from our hero Putin. What was the original question anyway?

so-tex
04-29-2014, 09:23 PM
I can understand where you are coming from being where you are. Putin is simply doing what is best for Mother Russia. I'm not saying it is right at all.


Putin is doing what's right for Putin.

All this crap is about re-election and holding on to power. It was the same situation when he went into Chechnya (which got him elected in the first place) and it was the same when he invaded Georgia (under the guise of his puppet Medevdev, 2 months before the election of 2008) - all for votes. Sure, the next election in Russia isn't for another 4 years but prior to the Ukrainian intervention, Putin was starting to get a lot of dissent back home. Dude's been having to jail dissidents left, right and centre and that wasn't boding well for seeing his term out - the man in the street was starting to turn on him. Nothing like a decent military confrontation to get the public on your side - especially in Russia.

It doesn't matter how bad a leader is at managing the economy or running the country as long as they're seen to stand up for Mother Russia they'll get that vote. Russians love "strong" leaders like no other country. Case in point: Stalin. A black joke of the later Soviet period: "Who was Adolf Hitler?" Answer: "A petty dictator who lived in the time of Joseph Stalin."
Yet there's a man literally responsible for the deaths of millions of Russians but with a present day approval rating higher than any Western politician's. Ask them who the greatest Tsars were and the answer will always be Peter the Great or Ivan the Terrible. Again, these guys were tyrants.

Putin knows that if he isn't re-elected or if he can't at least install a puppet govt. which is answerable to him, he and his mates are going to jail for corruption.
Look strong, keep getting re-elected and the problem disappears for a while. If the sh*t hits the fan at home, Putin will simply look for enemies abroad - that will always make him look stronger.I like the fact that you conveniently left out the last part of my comment to suit your agenda. If you will reference the bolded, you may understand why he is a strong leader, which is more than I can say about the wussification of your country as well as ours. Tell me, What has your PM done? :rolleyes: Cameron and Obama are both weak POS.

BloodySalad
04-30-2014, 01:25 AM
I like the fact that you conveniently left out the last part of my comment to suit your agenda.

I left it out because it's totally irrelvant. I wasn't aware that there was an agenda and I couldn't give a sh*t about Cameron or Obama. They're nothing to do with this subject.

BloodySalad
04-30-2014, 02:04 AM
UHowever, that does not mean that ‘most of the inhabitants of the Soviet Union welcomed Nazis at first’. Most fought, either joining the army or forming Partisany forces.



You're just flat out wrong.
You need to go read up on history. Like I said - the Nazis were viewed as liberators at first. Especially in the Baltic states. It wasn't just the Ukranians who held this view. To single them out whilst ignoring everyone else or trying to belittle their involvement in collaberation is the hallmark of Putin's recent propaganda against Kiev.

beachguy498
04-30-2014, 09:21 AM
I played a lot of Risk growing up. Geography ftw.

Everything I know about the Ukraine, I learned from playing Stratego.

Rob

lotusdeva
04-30-2014, 09:28 AM
You're just flat out wrong.
You need to go read up on history. Like I said - the Nazis were viewed as liberators at first. Especially in the Baltic states. It wasn't just the Ukranians who held this view. To single them out whilst ignoring everyone else or trying to belittle their involvement in collaberation is the hallmark of Putin's recent propaganda against Kiev.

I think you are confused. Baltic states (aka Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania) have a very distinct from Russia culture – a) they are not Slavic (as Ukrainians are btw), as language/culture/religion is totally different and b) they have never voluntarily accepted Russian rule. So yes, many from the Baltic states sided with Nazis, forming local forces. Ukraine on the other hand, shares tons of history with Russia. In fact, Kiev, which is a capital of Ukraine was (in like 10th century) Kievskaja Rus – federation of what is now Belorus, Russia and Ukraine (all 3 are Slavic).

So with the exception of Western Ukraine’s Bandera movement, Baltic states and several small forces, people in Russia did not see Nazis as liberators, pushing them back to Berlin and crashing them in 1945. I am not sure what you mean by 'to single them out whilst ignoring everyone else..' Who everyone else? Thread was about Putin, my point was that he had to do what he did (in light of Russian-Ukrainian historical/political/economic ties).

BloodySalad
06-03-2014, 01:55 PM
Thread was about Putin, my point was that he had to do what he did (in light of Russian-Ukrainian historical/political/economic ties).

Then the fact that the right wing nationalists got only 0.9% of the vote in the election a week ago, even with the flood of anti-Russian sentiment, shows that both Putin and you are wrong.

jeffaus
06-03-2014, 08:15 PM
So much unawareness in this thread. The mind boggles.

To Op, a simple no is the answer to your question of "is Putin another Hitler"

For Quality posts ITT, read posts by Weiss and Lotus Diva. Both Repped.

jeffaus
06-05-2014, 11:43 PM
There is definitely a shift in China's foreign policy going on. The latest being the beef with Japan over Diaoyu Island, and the ongoing Taiwan and Phillippine squabbles.Hahahahahahahaha. A shift in US policy towards China would be more to the point, if you really want to know the truth. Don't believe everything the media beefs up in the west. The days of real journalism where facts were sacrosanct are now long gone. Journo's are now nothing more than political script writers.

Sarumyan
06-06-2014, 12:40 AM
How stupid are you? Better ask - Is US a global parasite, that spies on people, bullies smaller countries, and kills thousands of people worldwide every year?

jeffaus
06-06-2014, 01:22 AM
How stupid are you? Better ask - Is US a global parasite, that spies on people, bullies smaller countries, and kills thousands of people worldwide every year?Well the answer to your question is probably yes, but I think that's directed at you Op. LOL


So I will be awaiting Op's rebuttal to this young man's concerns. :D

finnagainn
06-06-2014, 02:18 AM
Strange. I thought Americans are the nation that should understand what is going on in Ukraine best of all

Crimea = Texas
Donetsk and the like = fight for no taxation without representation

Jeez, if Founding Fathers were listening to people like current media, USA would not exist..