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View Full Version : Bulk or Cut? Pic inside! Experts



Dopedown
04-14-2014, 09:43 PM
Hey,(PHOTO IN DEFAULT PIC)
I am 5'11 Male, and 190lb. I was wondering if I should bulk or cut? also how to lose that hanging belly? And what is my BF% estimate you think?

Here is a backstory, I was 230lb, and decided to lose it. So I workout out a lot for one year, and got down to 160lb in 10Months. After I couldn't lose my tummy, I fell in a slump, and slowly watched myself get bigger. I decided to start again with the help of experts this time. If anybody can answer my questions, and then point me to the right direction, I'll greatly appreciate it. ;)

Dopedown
04-14-2014, 09:49 PM
please help!

Mrpb
04-14-2014, 10:04 PM
I'd go for a recomp. Eat at maintenance, find a good lifting program.

This will allow you to build muscle and lose the belly.

The pic looks really small here but judging by that I'd say ~16-17%.

After a few months once your body fat is lower and the newbie gains are wearing off you can start with a nice clean bulk.

magician27
04-14-2014, 10:32 PM
you have nothing to cut, bulk for a year up to 180-185 lbs slowly..

DAaaMan64
04-14-2014, 11:07 PM
you have nothing to cut, bulk for a year up to 180-185 lbs slowly..

this.

If you don't know your TDEE yet, then estimate it with the calculators, then spend some time finding out if that is actually accurate by tweaking your intake weekly and monitoring weight.

Eating at maintenance when you are new is a good idea also. You will see some okay gains quickly. But when you stall out, please slow bulk, you will have nothing to cut down to otherwise.

I won't lie, I'm no expert. But perhaps see my log, I am currently going through something similar.

Mrpb
04-14-2014, 11:24 PM
... bulk for a year up to 180-185 lbs slowly..

That's one magic bulk... he's 190 now ;)

Amirpyro
04-14-2014, 11:37 PM
Ya why bulk to 185 qhwn hes 190 makes no sense

rdferguson
04-15-2014, 12:04 AM
"Nothing to cut." That's interesting, because from where I'm sitting, OP is skinny-fat. Every skinny-fat person has something to cut: if they didn't, they'd be skinny-skinny, not skinny-fat.

I'd take Mrpb's advice and eat at maintenance while training for muscle, or go straight into cutting. Either way, lift. Train as if you want to be bigger, even when cutting. At the bare minimum this will give you some practice for when bulking comes along, but on top of that it may result in some muscle growing early on, or at least mitigate muscle lost from weight loss. BTW, a lack of strength training is probably why you got down to 160lb previously and still had a belly.

SuffolkPunch
04-15-2014, 12:40 AM
I would go for lose 10lbs of fat, gain 10lbs - rinse, repeat. 190 is a decent target weight but recomping is inefficient.

HealingHands8
04-15-2014, 01:26 AM
"Nothing to cut." That's interesting, because from where I'm sitting, OP is skinny-fat. Every skinny-fat person has something to cut: if they didn't, they'd be skinny-skinny, not skinny-fat.

I'd take Mrpb's advice and eat at maintenance while training for muscle, or go straight into cutting. Either way, lift. Train as if you want to be bigger, even when cutting. At the bare minimum this will give you some practice for when bulking comes along, but on top of that it may result in some muscle growing early on, or at least mitigate muscle lost from weight loss. BTW, a lack of strength training is probably why you got down to 160lb previously and still had a belly.

They should be saying nothing to cut to. No muscle mass. Which I agree with.

OP, I would lean bulk for at least 6 months.

Mrpb
04-15-2014, 06:25 AM
I would go for lose 10lbs of fat, gain 10lbs - rinse, repeat. 190 is a decent target weight but recomping is inefficient.

Is that your personal opinion or is that backed by science?

I thought a beginner with >15% body fat would make a good candidate for a recomp.

Attempting a cut with that little LBM, while starting a weight lift regime doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Gxp23
04-15-2014, 06:26 AM
I would lean bulk personally, but you have more than one option.

SuffolkPunch
04-15-2014, 06:40 AM
Is that your personal opinion or is that backed by science?

I thought a beginner with >15% body fat would make a good candidate for a recomp.

Attempting a cut with that little LBM, while starting a weight lift regime doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
It's opinion based on personal experience and observation of anecdotes and some understanding of human physiology. Lyle would most likely agree with me.

I am not aware of research that studies this.

15% is not an on off switch - it's just a threshold chosen to be approximately where recomping goes from bad to nonexistent. I would only recommend it for the very overweight - and even then I would still prefer a rapid cut for health reasons.

Mrpb
04-15-2014, 07:04 AM
OK so no science. Thanks for clarifying.

Whether Lyle would agree with you or not I don't know. I wouldn't necessarily take his opinion as the best advice anyway.

PS. I was not implying that 15% is an "on off switch".

SuffolkPunch
04-15-2014, 07:05 AM
OK so no science. Thanks for clarifying.

Whether Lyle would agree with you or not I don't know. I wouldn't necessarily take his opinion as the best advice anyway.

PS. I was not implying that 15% is an "on off switch".
So then whose opinion or which science were you basing your advice from?

For reference:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

Mrpb
04-15-2014, 07:23 AM
I don't have science either.

My opinion is influenced by many things, like my own experience, coaching a couple of guys, reading posts on these forums.

It's my personal opinion that many people underestimate the progress a beginner can make while eating at maintenance. The newbie effect + suddenly eating enough protein + progressive overload can deliver good results for a while. Later they can always do a proper cut or bulk.

My opinion was also influenced by threads like these:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=154282761
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161018531

And yes I understand that cutting and bulking can often be the fastest way to achieve results.

SuffolkPunch
04-15-2014, 07:49 AM
If you use strength as a yardstick, I think beginner results are massively skewed by the neural improvements they make initially. They need to run a program for 6 weeks consistently before you even start measuring IMO.

I've read the first link before - I think he is really talking about slow controlled mass gain rather than 'fulking' - but stil a caloric surplus. And still a consistent deficit for fat loss.

Mrpb
04-15-2014, 08:05 AM
If you use strength as a yardstick, I think beginner results are massively skewed by the neural improvements they make initially.
Agreed. I still think it's viable though to not bulk as long as they are making progressive overload.



I've read the first link before - I think he is really talking about slow controlled mass gain rather than 'fulking' - but stil a caloric surplus.
Some of it is indeed about slow bulking, some of it seems to be more about recomping ("simultaneous muscle gain and fat loss"), which can even happen in deficit.

The second link is good too btw.

As GXP23 pointed out, the OP in this thread has a lot of options. If he decides to cut or bulk I'd go with a small percentage of TDEE.

DAaaMan64
04-15-2014, 10:58 AM
They should be saying nothing to cut to. No muscle mass. Which I agree with.

This what I meant. Suggesting you should cut that last whatever pounds to is terrible advice.

VmissileX
04-15-2014, 11:09 AM
OP, what are your lifts.

I would take suffolks advice in your weight case...bulk a little cut a little (10 lbs both way post water weight fluctuations from dieting)