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SP1966
04-14-2014, 10:47 AM
... that we have been friends with Japan for over 100 years now? Neither did I but thanks to California Rep.Mike Honda I do now!

twitter.com/RepMikeHonda/status/455416478008090624

No country who keeps electing idiots deserves to survive.

Phattso
04-14-2014, 11:25 AM
I'm just hoping we can get other countries covered by ObamaCare and let the USA tax payers pay for it. Then, allow all those people to vote here in the USA.

(Paid for by Reid, Pelosi & Makers of Xanax, LLC)

Thanks, Obama.

TnRob
04-14-2014, 11:33 AM
Surely you aren't suggesting a politician would lie or misconstrue facts. What really happened is Pearl Harbor was a mistake due to satellite transmissions having not been properly sync'ed with GPS in 1941. Then in April of 1942 the U.S. satellites were mistakenly hit with an EMP (Jimmy Doolittle can vouch for this) but by late 1945 the problem was corrected and everybody has since lived happily ever after.

poundXpound
04-14-2014, 11:40 AM
... that we have been friends with Japan for over 100 years now? Neither did I but thanks to California Rep.Mike Honda I do now!

twitter.com/RepMikeHonda/status/455416478008090624

No country who keeps electing idiots deserves to survive.

....and our dear leader campaigned in all 57 states back in 2008. Must've been how he won the election since McCain only campaigned in 50....

Corbi
04-14-2014, 04:52 PM
How about the stupidity of Harry Reid and the BLM over the entire Bundy ranch deal? The $hit in this country is coming to a head, a lot of people are fed up and are refusing to shut up and sit down when told to do so.

TnRob
04-14-2014, 05:18 PM
How about the stupidity of Harry Reid and the BLM over the entire Bundy ranch deal? The $hit in this country is coming to a head, a lot of people are fed up and are refusing to shut up and sit down when told to do so.

I'd rep you right now if my reps weren't used up the day.

But yeah, SHTF seems to be coming sooner than later, and rightfully so. People in this country are so weak to realize that politicians work for us... not the other way around. And the over-reach has gone far too damned far.

thomashenry
04-14-2014, 05:22 PM
How about the stupidity of Harry Reid and the BLM over the entire Bundy ranch deal? The $hit in this country is coming to a head, a lot of people are fed up and are refusing to shut up and sit down when told to do so. Think of this for a moment, we have heavily armed Federal agents in a show of force, prepared and seemingly willing to fire upon and kill American Citizens over a state, maybe Federal land, supposed border dispute for grazing cattle {not too mention the head of the BLM was Reids top staffer} but actually the Feds that came, were for all intents & purposes ready and am sure with the right circumstances prepared to use deadly force, against American citizens , this is insane IMO, and yet over FOOKING cows. But the Fed Gov`t wont lift a finger to secure our Actual Borders and enforce Fed Laws in regards to Illegal Immigrants, rather they give em Voting rights, EBT cards etc access to taxpayer Schools and Healthcare, but threaten them {illegal aliens} and they loose their hallowed Seat in the house of representen or Senate, so are we citizens or residents ? WOW

paolo59
04-14-2014, 05:57 PM
How about the stupidity of Harry Reid and the BLM over the entire Bundy ranch deal? The $hit in this country is coming to a head, a lot of people are fed up and are refusing to shut up and sit down when told to do so.

LOL The 'great Senator from Nevada' has let it be known that; "This is not over!" From what I have seen reported (certainly not in the main-stream media) the whole thing has very little to do with cattle, or I should say 'grazing rights' paid or unpaid, or even a little desert tortoise. Seems it just might have much more to do with one multi-million dollar Chinese corporation that is looking to establish a solar energy plant. Said Chinese corporation is represented by one of Reid's 'hot-shot' lawyer sons in Las Vegas.

I suppose it remains to be seen whether these allegations are fact, but I honestly don't doubt them in the least.

SP1966
04-14-2014, 05:58 PM
How about the stupidity of Harry Reid and the BLM over the entire Bundy ranch deal? The $hit in this country is coming to a head, a lot of people are fed up and are refusing to shut up and sit down when told to do so.


LOL The 'great Senator from Nevada' has let it be known that; "This is not over!" From what I have seen reported (certainly not in the main-stream media) the whole thing has very little to do with cattle, or I should say 'grazing rights' paid or unpaid, or even a little desert tortoise. Seems it just might have much more to do with one multi-million dollar Chinese corporation that is looking to establish a solar energy plant. Said Chinese corporation is represented by one of Reid's 'hot-shot' lawyer sons in Las Vegas.

I suppose it remains to be seen whether these allegations are fact, but I honestly don't doubt them in the least.

http://danaloeschradio.com/the-real-story-of-the-bundy-ranch/

Corbi
04-14-2014, 06:11 PM
http://danaloeschradio.com/the-real-story-of-the-bundy-ranch/

Reid is so slimy, if he actually had any involvement in this ordeal he should be tossed out of office and arrested. If it's the governments claim that because he didn't pay these so called grazing fees...which I have read elsewhere don't actually exist.. why didn't they simply file a lien and not show up like a gestapo squad?

TnRob
04-14-2014, 06:51 PM
They actually returned quicker than I thought they would. I knew it wasn't over when they left in the first place because they aren't going to give in when it is their land on paper. It's the federal gov... they get what they want or they take it, regardless of body count when the dust settles.

Phattso
04-14-2014, 06:53 PM
reid is so slimy

x10

paolo59
04-14-2014, 10:36 PM
They actually returned quicker than I thought they would. I knew it wasn't over when they left in the first place because they aren't going to give in when it is their land on paper. It's the federal gov... they get what they want or they take it, regardless of body count when the dust settles.

I hope, POLITICALLY SPEAKING, that one of the bodies on the ground when the 'dust settles' is Harry Reid. The Senator from Nevada is as dirty as they come. "What happens in Las Vegas...stays in Las Vegas." Folks have no idea of what 'crony capitalism' represents when it comes to Harry Reid and Nevada! :(

Frnkd
04-15-2014, 03:35 PM
How about the stupidity of Harry Reid and the BLM over the entire Bundy ranch deal? The $hit in this country is coming to a head, a lot of people are fed up and are refusing to shut up and sit down when told to do so.

Debunked.
Apparently someone jumped on this and rumors spread like wildfire. Yes his son is a lobbyist however the land that was being looked at was not even the land in question.

thomashenry
04-15-2014, 03:48 PM
It was a tense standoff in rural Nevada with armed protesters closing I-15 for a while and facing off against even more heavily-armed federal agents.

For now, that volatile Bundy Ranch confrontation has been defused. But it's not over by any means. And we may well experience others that do not pause in non-violence.

These are profound disputes illustrative of abiding suspicions among average Americans and their government headed by a man who promised to bring people together but didn't. And it comes in an uncertain economic time when so many have given up big dreams to just keep what they have.


The specific Nevada dispute, such as it is, has been simmering for 21 years between a Mormon cattle rancher named Cliven Bundy and the Bureau of Land Management, better-known in the West as BLMM, the Bureau of Land Mis-Management.

But the far larger issue, most intense in the West, involves a mounting distrust and suspicion of all things federal -- Congress, the bureaucracy and especially an aloof president. His perceived interests are inserting an over-reaching government into the lives of every American for their own good from closing coal mines and rewriting restaurant menus to seizing private property and regulating cow farts.


The leaders of Syria and Russia are not the only ones who've noticed Barack Obama's empty words, faux red lines and chronic inaction. It's registered on his own countrymen as well.

Little known in the urban East, BLM is charged with managing nearly 300 million federal acres mostly across the West. That's an area equivalent to the second and fourth largest states combined, Texas and Montana.

Nevada is the seventh-largest state with 110,567 square miles. That's 1,626 times larger than all of Washington, D.C., 84% of it still owned by the federal government.

Anyone here ever rented from a landlord located clear across the continent? You get the set-up for conflicting priorities, miscommunication, misinterpretation, misunderstanding and missteps. Bundy's family has ranched the area since even before Joe Biden was born, back in the 1880's when Rutherford B. Hayes was president.

Sixty-six years later in 1946 BLM was created, ostensibly to organize a crazy-quilt of laws and regulations governing federal lands. In 1993, BLM notified Bundy that he could not graze his cattle on federal lands anymore because the desert tortoise there was now endangered.

Forget that this same federal government exploded atomic bombs in Nevada for generations with little concern for natural impacts. And it would like to store thousands of tons of nuclear waste there too.



So, for the sake of an endangered wild tortoise the Bundy family ranch became an endangered species. The feds are doing the same to thirsty California farms for the sake of an endangered minnow.

Bundy's response was very Western. He went ahead anyway. Legally, Bundy hasn't a leg to stand on. He doesn't own the land. He hasn't paid rent. And he's lost three court battles.


Armed with a court order, BLM decided the time had come for action, eviction of about 1,000 of Bundy's cattle, even separating newborn calves and mothers.


BLM saw no contradiction sending in dozens of armed federal agents to confront a 67-year-old man behind in his rent while the president of the United States and the nation's chief law enforcement officer traveled to New York to dine with and speak on behalf of the notorious Al Sharpton, who's been more than $1 million behind in his income taxes.

That's the kind of double-standard cronyism and de facto discrimination that gets people's backs up. Even if they don't drink tea.

So, in pickups and on horseback hundreds of angry strangers and militia members, alerted by email and texts, became Bundy supporters. They converged on the ranch. Tensions rose. And the BLM, remembering past deadly government-citizen conflicts named Waco, Ruby Ridge and Wounded Knee, released the seized cattle.

Now, here comes the political part that will seem quite familiar to Chicagoans:

A Chinese company has wanted to build an immense solar-panel farm in Nevada under the name ENN Mojave Energy. It would need additional tortoise habitat to mitigate its complex.

The local lobbyist who's represented the Chinese-backed firm is a failed Democrat politician named Rory Reid, who got his gully washed in the 2010 race for governor by Republican Brian Sandoval.

Oh, look! Reid also happens to be the son of Harry Reid, the dottering Democrat Senate majority leader for a few more months, who's somehow managed to become a millionaire on congressional pay.

Now, perhaps you understand why Bundy Ranch supporters smell a cattle-thieving, land-grabbing Washington political conspiracy where, clearly, none exists.

Oh, one other thing. Last week the Senate confirmed a brand-new director of BLM. He's Neil Kornze, at 35 an unusually inexperienced youngster to be running such a powerful agency with sprawling powers.

However, Nevada native Kornze had something special going for him in the Senate and Obama White House drive to get him the job. He was a senior policy aide to -- Wait for it! -- Harry Reid, whose son represented the Chinese solar farm.

Now, go wash your hands.


Read More At Investor's Business Daily:

poundXpound
04-15-2014, 04:51 PM
OK, doesn't matter if or how Slimy Harry is involved. Why should this guy get to feed his cattle for free on taxpayer-owned land? This rancher competes with ranchers all over the USA who own or rent the land they graze their cattle on. This gives him an unfair advantage when it comes to the cost per head. I'd like to hear so-tex's take on this since he' in the business IIRC....

eomrat
04-15-2014, 05:19 PM
http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz296/FranzK4187/InvadeNevada_zps5a698e7d.jpg (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/FranzK4187/media/InvadeNevada_zps5a698e7d.jpg.html)



This image brought to you courtesy of SP1966

thomashenry
04-15-2014, 06:05 PM
http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/954/7791/original.jpg

Gee who would have guessed it, The feds are so desperate to hide Harry Reid’s connection to a Communist Chinese energy company linked to the Cliven Bundy land grab, they are now even deleting Google’s cached version of an explosive document originally deleted from the BLM website. - What the hell is the center for biological diversity ?


This is Google's cache of http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/lvfo/blm_programs/more/trespass_cattle/cattle_trespass_impacts.html. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Apr 3, 2014 11:23:19 GMT. The current page could have changed in the meantime. Learn more
Tip: To quickly find your search term on this page, press Ctrl+F or ⌘-F (Mac) and use the find bar.

Text-only version

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIORBUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT

Northeast Clark County Cattle Trespass
Print Page



Cattle Trespass Impacts

Cliven Bundy has no legal authority to graze cattle on federal lands in the Gold Butte area, including Lake Mead National Recreation Area. The U.S. District Court of Nevada has permanently enjoined Cliven Bundy's trespass grazing, ordered him to remove his trespass cattle from public lands inside and outside the former Bunkerville Allotment (including from the Lake Mead NRA) before December 2013, and stated the U.S. is entitled to seize and impound any cattle that have not been removed by the judicially imposed off-date and that remain in trespass. A large number of the trespass cattle on the federal lands are feral cattle that can pose a threat to members of the public recreating or traveling over the federal lands. The trespass cattle have also caused damage to private property, as well as to the federal lands and natural resources.

Examples of Recent Incidents of Private Property Damage Caused by Bundy's Trespass Cattle

One feral cow was hit by an automobile within Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Cattle are frequently seen on public roads, including State Route 170 and pose a danger to vehicles and to members of the public traveling on public roads.
Overton Wildlife Refuge (State of Nevada) employee attacked by a Bundy bull.
Crop destroyed by Bundy cattle on private land.
Mesquite Heritage Community Garden damaged by trespass cattle.
Mesquite golf course damaged by trespass cattle.
Examples of Restoration Funding and Viability Impacted

A $400,000 matching grant to restore Southwest Willow Flycatcher habitat along the Virgin River from the Walton Family Foundation was withdrawn until the trespass cattle have been removed.
A $160,000 Southern Nevada Public Land Management Act project to restore Southwestern Willow Flycatcher has been delayed until trespass cattle are removed.
Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.
The Nevada State Department of Wildlife has built extensive fences to protect state and federal lands protected as the Overton Wildlife Refuge from the trespass cattle.
Examples of Public Concerns

Residents of the communities of Bunkerville and Mesquite have complained about the impact of cattle on city facilities.
Within the last month, letters requesting action have also been received from several individuals, Friends of Nevada Wilderness, Friends of Gold Butte and Friends of Joshua Tree Forest.
The Center for Biological Diversity has demanded action to resolve trespass in designated critical desert tortoise habitat in several letters.
Western Watersheds has requested a verbal status update and later filed a Freedom of Information Act request.
Examples of Natural and Cultural Resource Damage

Cattle have crushed artifacts at the "Red Racer" and St. Thomas cultural sites.
Damage to springs, including fecal contamination, trampling soils and vegetation and impacts to wildlife. Wildlife will avoid springs with large numbers of cattle.
Damage to springs with sensitive amphibians, including the rare relict leopard frog.
Multiple instances of vegetation damage to rare plants, including on monitoring plots after extensive wildfires within critical habitat for Desert Tortoise.
Unauthorized reservoir constructed with bulldozer twice.


Trespass Cattle
Daily Public Land Closure Maps
Impound Status Update
History of Trepass Cattle
Cattle Trespass Impacts
Notices
Court Orders
News Releases


Last updated: 03-26-2014
USA.GOV | No Fear Act | DOI | Disclaimer | About BLM | Notices | Social Media Policy
Privacy Policy | FOIA | Kids Policy | Contact Us | Accessibility | Site Map | Home

SP1966
04-15-2014, 06:09 PM
http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz296/FranzK4187/InvadeNevada_zps5a698e7d.jpg (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/FranzK4187/media/InvadeNevada_zps5a698e7d.jpg.html)



This image brought to you courtesy of SP1966

Damn man, I was just joking, no need to give credit for an internet meme!

TnRob
04-15-2014, 06:29 PM
http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/954/7791/original.jpg

Gee who would have guessed it, The feds are so desperate to hide Harry Reid’s connection to a Communist Chinese energy company linked to the Cliven Bundy land grab, they are now even deleting Google’s cached version of an explosive document originally deleted from the BLM website. - What the hell is the center for biological diversity ?


This is Google's cache of http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/lvfo/blm_programs/more/trespass_cattle/cattle_trespass_impacts.html. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Apr 3, 2014 11:23:19 GMT. The current page could have changed in the meantime. Learn more
Tip: To quickly find your search term on this page, press Ctrl+F or ⌘-F (Mac) and use the find bar.

Text-only version

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIORBUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT

Northeast Clark County Cattle Trespass
Print Page



Cattle Trespass Impacts

Cliven Bundy has no legal authority to graze cattle on federal lands in the Gold Butte area, including Lake Mead National Recreation Area. The U.S. District Court of Nevada has permanently enjoined Cliven Bundy's trespass grazing, ordered him to remove his trespass cattle from public lands inside and outside the former Bunkerville Allotment (including from the Lake Mead NRA) before December 2013, and stated the U.S. is entitled to seize and impound any cattle that have not been removed by the judicially imposed off-date and that remain in trespass. A large number of the trespass cattle on the federal lands are feral cattle that can pose a threat to members of the public recreating or traveling over the federal lands. The trespass cattle have also caused damage to private property, as well as to the federal lands and natural resources.

Examples of Recent Incidents of Private Property Damage Caused by Bundy's Trespass Cattle

One feral cow was hit by an automobile within Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Cattle are frequently seen on public roads, including State Route 170 and pose a danger to vehicles and to members of the public traveling on public roads.
Overton Wildlife Refuge (State of Nevada) employee attacked by a Bundy bull.
Crop destroyed by Bundy cattle on private land.
Mesquite Heritage Community Garden damaged by trespass cattle.
Mesquite golf course damaged by trespass cattle.
Examples of Restoration Funding and Viability Impacted

A $400,000 matching grant to restore Southwest Willow Flycatcher habitat along the Virgin River from the Walton Family Foundation was withdrawn until the trespass cattle have been removed.
A $160,000 Southern Nevada Public Land Management Act project to restore Southwestern Willow Flycatcher has been delayed until trespass cattle are removed.
Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.
The Nevada State Department of Wildlife has built extensive fences to protect state and federal lands protected as the Overton Wildlife Refuge from the trespass cattle.
Examples of Public Concerns

Residents of the communities of Bunkerville and Mesquite have complained about the impact of cattle on city facilities.
Within the last month, letters requesting action have also been received from several individuals, Friends of Nevada Wilderness, Friends of Gold Butte and Friends of Joshua Tree Forest.
The Center for Biological Diversity has demanded action to resolve trespass in designated critical desert tortoise habitat in several letters.
Western Watersheds has requested a verbal status update and later filed a Freedom of Information Act request.
Examples of Natural and Cultural Resource Damage

Cattle have crushed artifacts at the "Red Racer" and St. Thomas cultural sites.
Damage to springs, including fecal contamination, trampling soils and vegetation and impacts to wildlife. Wildlife will avoid springs with large numbers of cattle.
Damage to springs with sensitive amphibians, including the rare relict leopard frog.
Multiple instances of vegetation damage to rare plants, including on monitoring plots after extensive wildfires within critical habitat for Desert Tortoise.
Unauthorized reservoir constructed with bulldozer twice.


Trespass Cattle
Daily Public Land Closure Maps
Impound Status Update
History of Trepass Cattle
Cattle Trespass Impacts
Notices
Court Orders
News Releases


Last updated: 03-26-2014
USA.GOV | No Fear Act | DOI | Disclaimer | About BLM | Notices | Social Media Policy
Privacy Policy | FOIA | Kids Policy | Contact Us | Accessibility | Site Map | Home


I don't understand what Harry Reid's failure to secure borders has to do with all of this. If a man doesn't pay his property taxes then the property is seized. If you destroy someones property, you are liable. If you trespass, you pay the price. If the man refuses to remove his cattle after being ordered repeatedly by the court system, then the courts should be allowed to follow through with whatever action is necessary to force compliance. Or am I missing something?

SP1966
04-15-2014, 06:38 PM
Or am I missing something?

Yes, you are.

His family has owned the grazing rights to that land for well over 100 years. He has paid the fees/taxes up until the point at which it became clear that the BLM was using his 'taxes' against him in an attempt to defraud him of his rights. They did the same to a number of other ranchers, this one simply didn't turn tail and run.

As for the turtle, if it's so endangered then why did Uncle Sam put down over a 100 of them? If it's so endangered then why did one of Horrible Harry's donors manage to get right to develop a large plot of land that was also designated for them? This isn't about turtles, it isn't about taxes, it's about a corrupt Federal Government taking what they want so that the politicians can get paid.

TnRob
04-15-2014, 06:47 PM
Yes, you are.

His family has owned the grazing rights to that land for well over 100 years. He has paid the fees/taxes up until the point at which it became clear that the BLM was using his 'taxes' against him in an attempt to defraud him of his rights. They did the same to a number of other ranchers, this one simply didn't turn tail and run.

The bolded is what doesn't make sense to me. If he had kept paying the fees then there should not have been a way for them to deprive him of his "rights" to use the land. This is why I referenced people losing property for failure to pay property taxes.

thomashenry
04-15-2014, 06:48 PM
I don't understand what Harry Reid's failure to secure borders has to do with all of this. If a man doesn't pay his property taxes then the property is seized. If you destroy someones property, you are liable. If you trespass, you pay the price. If the man refuses to remove his cattle after being ordered repeatedly by the court system, then the courts should be allowed to follow through with whatever action is necessary to force compliance. Or am I missing something?----------------------- Cliven Bundy and his family have owned a ranch in Nevada for 140 years. The land he grazes his cattle on has changed from being owned by the federal government, to being restrictively managed by the federal government, to being micromanaged by the federal government, and if environmentalists get their way, he will have no means of survival.

Upon statehood in 1864, Nevada was admitted to the union on equal footing with the original states, however, somewhere between 84% and 86% of the State’s land mass was forever “disclaimed” by the people of the state. It belongs to the federal government.

I’ve read countless articles and references, and as I understand it, Mr. Bundy’s grandfather acquired his family land in the 1880′s and paid for the rights to work additional federal land. Nowhere can I find any outside reference to the ownership by the Bundy’s of more than Mr. Bundy’s own private land except that after decades of working and improving federal land, the Bundy’s might claim a sweat equity stake in the land they have always had their cattle graze upon, along with the fact that public land should be for public use. In addition to deals made with the federal government throughout the 140 year time frame, Mr. Bundy has a very plausible argument in his righteous indignation of the federal micro-managers who are trying to end his livelihood.

It is interesting to note that the American rancher has been pushed around consistently by the federal government under mostly Democrat Presidents. Under FDR, the Taylor Grazing Act was enacted to lessen the stress on federal lands due to over-grazing. I think you and I can figure out that there used to be many more ranchers out doing their thing back in 1934, and more than likely many more cattle. Twelve years later, under Harry Truman, the Bureau of Land Management was born, and BLM went about supposedly charging grazing fees in order to keep the land managed. In 1976, under the feckless Ford administration, environmental law offered more and more restrictions toward the use of the public lands for grazing. During the Clinton administration, the Bundy family stopped paying its money to the federal government because, as I understand it, they felt the feds were not improving the land for the money they sent them. Since then, after over $300,000 in missed grazing fees and something like twice that in trespass fees, the Bundy’s were ordered to remove the cattle or the federal government would remove them for him.

Why?

Clearly, those who often argue for more federal dominance over the individual, say that Mr. Bundy hasn’t paid the feds, so he should lose his cattle as the court order issued last year by a federal judge has said. But, Mr. Bundy understands that if he gives in, he loses his livelihood, after all, every decade he has lost more and more freedom on the public land his cattle have always ranged. It stands to reason that his way of life is being squeezed out of existence, with a federal government completely disinterested in his livelihood, and willing to spend upwards of $3 million in order to enforce a court order that was only issued after a $1 million accumulation of fees. With a federal government uninterested in the cost of doing business, it continues to insist that this confrontation is not over.

With environmental law such as it is, more and more federal land is being cordoned off for different environmental concerns. All it takes for an area to be considered for federal protection, is the identification of a certain grass, certain animal life, or certain natural beauty to prohibit the public from using public land for anything other than tourism. Unless you have a solar energy company and friends in Washington D.C., of course, then no environmental concerns rank above the profit of solar or wind energy companies–which exposes, by the way, a real rift in the environmental left–more on that later.

So what should the American people demand? More environmental designs on public land, while we sit soaking in $17 trillion in debt, or, should we begin a movement to encourage the federal government to begin selling off land to pay back our debt?

It will drive the environmentalists insane, but the matter is certainly a viable economic plan to relieve us of our poor credit rating and at the same time, release thousands upon thousands of acres of what is now public land that is not to be used by the public.

In the 1980′s, President Reagan sought to offer some of these public lands to be sold to the States, and was told that the idea was not exactly what the ranchers wanted. But after years of the federal government collecting fees from ranchers and then buying out the ranch, in a sick game of lease-to-lose with BLM, perhaps it is high time the American people turn the tables.

Al Sharpton owes the federal Gov`t two million in back taxes and Obama was hugging him earlier this week, Cliven Bundy owes 300,000.00 in grazing fees and they send armed people to remove his cattle break his windmills what is wrong with this picture.

You can apply the answers given here to almost all of the regulatory moves made by state and federal government which have, in effect, shut down industrial and personal growth in business. There is an insidious and systematic assault on our founding principles of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness being carried out by the Marxists, Leftists, Progressives, Democrats, RINOs and Socialists...call them what you will.

HE HAS PAID FOR LAND AND WATER RIGHTS !!! He is delinquent to the FEDS for grazing fees which is a separate issue !! His belief is that the money paid is owed to the state and NOT the feds. They have turned their cheek for 20 yrs because in part they know they are in the wrong. Bundy needs to file losses of water containment systems, damaged fencing, extra work for feeding orphaned calves and dead cattle to the Feds and call the debt a wash !!! Its NOT about just not paying the bill, its about who has rights to public lands. He was given the rights years ago

TnRob
04-15-2014, 07:12 PM
For the record... I am against federal dominance..period. Try making the case in court about Obama giving a brotherman a hug, or Al Sharpton owing money, and the case would be lost. It has no bearance on this particular case. And the facts being presented here are getting twisted. Did the guy already pay for the use of the land years in advance, or did he stop paying the fees years ago? It can't be both. If he is required to pay fees and doesn't, then he by law (regardless if federal or not) was ordered by a U.S. court to vacate the property.

So is this a case of a fellow rancher being ran out of business and supported by those willing to say screw the law, or is the case he is making a legit case of he paid for use of the land and his contract was voided after payment in full?

And that $17 trillion debt... charged to you and I. Wasn't everyone warned years ago that the debt would sooner or later fall due, and that the first thing taken to reclaim that debt would be our lands? Nobody listened because nobody gave a **** as long as they were getting paid or getting something for free. Obama to blame?...sure, since 2008 but before then, every single president and lawmaker to hold office. People allowed politicians to be career politicians, knowing the ill-effect it would eventually have. But nobody gave a ****.

thomashenry
04-15-2014, 07:28 PM
I don't understand what Harry Reid's failure to secure borders has to do with all of this. If a man doesn't pay his property taxes then the property is seized. If you destroy someones property, you are liable. If you trespass, you pay the price. If the man refuses to remove his cattle after being ordered repeatedly by the court system, then the courts should be allowed to follow through with whatever action is necessary to force compliance. Or am I missing something?
"If you trespass you should pay the price" that goes both ways for individuals as well as an intrusive ubiquitous Federal, state & local Gov`t IMO, we are being regulated to death, like drones, everything from toilets to lightbulbs, Where in the Constitution do they garner this authority ? where does the EPA get it`s authority ? is this for our own benefit ? personal property is a guarantee, Liberty is afforded by the Constitution. 3-5 % of the Total land mass in the Continental United States is occupied not including Alaska and Hawaii, the Federal Gov`t owns 25-30% of all Federal land, for what ? National Parks, Hardly How much Mining, Coal extraction, oil drilling, rare Earth minerals could be developed ? this Nation has been blessed with an abundance of resources to drive {which we once did beyond the scope of anyones imagination} more so than anyone or nation on this planet to thrive and give anyone an opportunity legally to become whatever their heart desired.

The rule of Law and the economic benefits as well as personal Liberty are being diminished by corrupt phony hypocrites at an alarming pace, My Point of the border is that we will not lift a finger, politicians that is, to secure our borders from Illegal aliens who are coming in droves and politicians are bending over backwards to retain their power for the simple reason of power and could not give 2 chits about them in the overall big picture aside from their vote, promise em anything that taxpayers are willing to give, but threaten a turtle which actually is not threatened and Feel the full force & tacit approval of confronting a U.S. Taxpayer, something wrong with this picture, there is something in the wood pile, don`t you think, these people don`t take a crap without a plan

thomashenry
04-15-2014, 07:45 PM
For the record... I am against federal dominance..period. Try making the case in court about Obama giving a brotherman a hug, or Al Sharpton owing money, and the case would be lost. It has no bearance on this particular case. And the facts being presented here are getting twisted. Did the guy already pay for the use of the land years in advance, or did he stop paying the fees years ago? It can't be both. If he is required to pay fees and doesn't, then he by law (regardless if federal or not) was ordered by a U.S. court to vacate the property.

So is this a case of a fellow rancher being ran out of business and supported by those willing to say screw the law, or is the case he is making a legit case of he paid for use of the land and his contract was voided after payment in full?

And that $17 trillion debt... charged to you and I. Wasn't everyone warned years ago that the debt would sooner or later fall due, and that the first thing taken to reclaim that debt would be our lands? Nobody listened because nobody gave a **** as long as they were getting paid or getting something for free. Obama to blame?...sure, since 2008 but before then, every single president and lawmaker to hold office. People allowed politicians to be career politicians, knowing the ill-effect it would eventually have. But nobody gave a ****. Al Sharpton a brotherman, LOL you mean CI 7 don`t you, that scum bag race pimp hustler lowlife POS needs an azz whipping in a federal lockup, take that james brown flip of his an FCK it up not that I am promoting violence, and for the President of the United States to even be in the same room as that man is preposterous and insulting to any sane law abiding person, other than that I agree with you on quite a bit of the rest :] not all however , the Corruption & graft has grown exponentially

Corbi
04-15-2014, 07:53 PM
Debunked.
Apparently someone jumped on this and rumors spread like wildfire. Yes his son is a lobbyist however the land that was being looked at was not even the land in question.

That's being a good little liberal soldier, and your source of debunking would be?????????

SP1966
04-15-2014, 08:08 PM
The bolded is what doesn't make sense to me. If he had kept paying the fees then there should not have been a way for them to deprive him of his "rights" to use the land. This is why I referenced people losing property for failure to pay property taxes.

They were telling him to reduce his ranch to 150 cattle from it's current 1000 which would be the same as ordering him out of business. So even while paying the fees they were working against him all the while approving construction upon similar lands in the area.

SP1966
04-15-2014, 08:11 PM
Debunked.
Apparently someone jumped on this and rumors spread like wildfire. Yes his son is a lobbyist however the land that was being looked at was not even the land in question.

The Bundy land isn't the land that his donor wanted, and got access to build on. But the land is in the same area and was part of the preserve for the turtles in question yet it's okay to build but not for cattle to graze?

TnRob
04-15-2014, 08:25 PM
Not so.


Ok, let's just say every President from Lincoln forward. Otherwise it's a futile attempt to convince me that politics in this country is not a two-headed snake. It's by design to make you feel free when you are never free except to walk the street, and that is becoming a dangerous freedom to have.

TnRob
04-15-2014, 08:28 PM
Al Sharpton a brotherman, LOL you mean CI 7 don`t you, that scum bag race pimp hustler lowlife POS needs an azz whipping in a federal lockup, take that james brown flip of his an FCK it up not that I am promoting violence, and for the President of the United States to even be in the same room as that man is preposterous and insulting to any sane law abiding person, other than that I agree with you on quite a bit of the rest :] not all however , the Corruption & graft has grown exponentially


I won't disagree. But again, Sharpton has nothing to do with the situation at hand. This is what I mean by arguing Sharpton as a defense in this land case. The two aren't related.

paolo59
04-15-2014, 08:31 PM
The Bundy land isn't the land that his donor wanted, and got access to build on. But the land is in the same area and was part of the preserve for the turtles in question yet it's okay to build but not for cattle to graze?

Many Western states have huge swathes of Federally controlled land, Nevada among them. Nevada is ALL about land. 'Government controlled' land granted, but HOW it is designated, WHO in government has the 'inside track' for its' possible future use and the 'authorization' for that use is key. It is no coincidence that the Bureau of Land Management is now run by a Reid crony. If anyone thinks that it is, they are incredibly na´ve. Who, other than someone in government, has the ultimate word on what takes place? There are hundreds of millions to be made in speculation. All an interested party need is a well placed 'Federal Government' employee. Who is better placed in Nevada AND Washington than Harry Reid? "Crony Capitalism" is not illegal. But it is what it is! :( Sit back and watch.

Frnkd
04-16-2014, 03:54 AM
This is NOT about land it's about this free loading rancher who thinks he doesn't owe his due in grazing on the land. Geeze. He was offered <$2 a head of to graze and has been refusing for twenty something years to pay. THAT's why he owes million plus to the fed govt. and you talk about takers and welfare queens. This guy is the biggest one yet.

Why haven't the cattle ranchers association come to his defense? That's because they see that this guy has been taking advantage of the land as he refuses to pay up. on private land ranchers have been paying $15 or more per head to graze. This is not about freedom, really this is about fcking Fox News and Hannety lovers believing again what they broadcast, and incite some sort of revolution, this freaking "federal govt" is bad crap.
And, did you hear Huckabee on this, OMG, he should know better, he's worst than Hannety in trying to make this smoocher into a hero of some sort. I know this group of people HATE this admin but to incite and condone violence!

I would think that people here would
Be smarter and more informed on this issue. That turtle or solar farm thing is contrived smoke screen. Disappointed.

Ask the private land owners in Nebraska about rights and freedom. They are being threatened by a foreign corporation to take their land for the pipeline. Where is the vitriol talk for them? And the defense on their part for what is their right.

That is all.

paolo59
04-16-2014, 06:08 PM
This is NOT about land it's about this free loading rancher who thinks he doesn't owe his due in grazing on the land. Geeze. He was offered <$2 a head of to graze and has been refusing for twenty something years to pay. THAT's why he owes million plus to the fed govt. and you talk about takers and welfare queens. This guy is the biggest one yet.

Why haven't the cattle ranchers association come to his defense? That's because they see that this guy has been taking advantage of the land as he refuses to pay up. on private land ranchers have been paying $15 or more per head to graze. This is not about freedom, really this is about fcking Fox News and Hannety lovers believing again what they broadcast, and incite some sort of revolution, this freaking "federal govt" is bad crap.
And, did you hear Huckabee on this, OMG, he should know better, he's worst than Hannety in trying to make this smoocher into a hero of some sort. I know this group of people HATE this admin but to incite and condone violence!

I would think that people here would
Be smarter and more informed on this issue. That turtle or solar farm thing is contrived smoke screen. Disappointed.

Ask the private land owners in Nebraska about rights and freedom. They are being threatened by a foreign corporation to take their land for the pipeline. Where is the vitriol talk for them? And the defense on their part for what is their right.

That is all.

Brother, this has everything to do about land, and its' usage. There is an interesting statement that has been issued by the Nevada Cattlemen Association on this subject. It can be found on any number of internet sites, among them KRNV-DT out of Reno. They take no side in the BLM/Bundy standoff, but are obviously sympathetic to his plight and circumstances. The demand to decrease your herds by 500% to protect a desert tortoise who's 'endangered status' is questionable, to say the least, speaks directly to the land and how it can be used. What was the 'genesis' of the rancher's unwillingness to pay 'federal grazing rights?' He was perfectly willing to pay the Nevada county on which the land is located. BLM policies and dictates that would drive cattle ranching into extinction are an ever increasing concern to every rancher in the Western United States. Those policies are a concern to every Cattlemen Association in those states.

The question remains, what do grazing cattle do to the poor desert tortoise that millions of dollars in domestic/foreign investment on that same land doesn't do? I think I can see the distinction. It's 'green.' Whether one can 'pin-point' a boogy man to lay blame for this may be up for debate. But there are decades old, longstanding and deeply held grievances that those outside of the 'West' and the usage of millions of open acres don't even begin to understand.

pharmamarketer
04-16-2014, 06:39 PM
Anyone deadlift today? It helps

SP1966
04-16-2014, 07:23 PM
Brother, this has everything to do about land, and its' usage. There is an interesting statement that has been issued by the Nevada Cattlemen Association on this subject. It can be found on any number of internet sites, among them KRNV-DT out of Reno. They take no side in the BLM/Bundy standoff, but are obviously sympathetic to his plight and circumstances. The demand to decrease your herds by 500% to protect a desert tortoise who's 'endangered status' is questionable, to say the least, speaks directly to the land and how it can be used. What was the 'genesis' of the rancher's unwillingness to pay 'federal grazing rights?' He was perfectly willing to pay the Nevada county on which the land is located. BLM policies and dictates that would drive cattle ranching into extinction are an ever increasing concern to every rancher in the Western United States. Those policies are a concern to every Cattlemen Association in those states.

The question remains, what do grazing cattle do to the poor desert tortoise that millions of dollars in domestic/foreign investment on that same land doesn't do? I think I can see the distinction. It's 'green.' Whether one can 'pin-point' a boogy man to lay blame for this may be up for debate. But there are decades old, longstanding and deeply held grievances that those outside of the 'West' and the usage of millions of open acres don't even begin to understand.

Amen!

so-tex
04-16-2014, 09:57 PM
OK, doesn't matter if or how Slimy Harry is involved. Why should this guy get to feed his cattle for free on taxpayer-owned land? This rancher competes with ranchers all over the USA who own or rent the land they graze their cattle on. This gives him an unfair advantage when it comes to the cost per head. I'd like to hear so-tex's take on this since he' in the business IIRC....You had to involve me didn't ya. In the eyes of any Texas cattleman, Bundy is illegally using the land for grazing purposes. If I were to not pay my lease fees, the owner would have me in deep sh!t with the local law enforcement (county sheriffs, judges, ect.) and my best friends would torch my ass to boot. I honestly don't know how it works with public land, but it seems to me that Mr. Bundy made some vast improvements(water) to some pretty sorry grazing land and may have not been paid for it.
The biggest problem I have with the whole ordeal, is the firepower that our cocksuking tyrants for a government came in with.
It never was about the grazing fees.
It never was about the tortoise. :)

so-tex
04-16-2014, 10:07 PM
Brother, this has everything to do about land, and its' usage. There is an interesting statement that has been issued by the Nevada Cattlemen Association on this subject. It can be found on any number of internet sites, among them KRNV-DT out of Reno. They take no side in the BLM/Bundy standoff, but are obviously sympathetic to his plight and circumstances. The demand to decrease your herds by 500% to protect a desert tortoise who's 'endangered status' is questionable, to say the least, speaks directly to the land and how it can be used. What was the 'genesis' of the rancher's unwillingness to pay 'federal grazing rights?' He was perfectly willing to pay the Nevada county on which the land is located. BLM policies and dictates that would drive cattle ranching into extinction are an ever increasing concern to every rancher in the Western United States. Those policies are a concern to every Cattlemen Association in those states.

The question remains, what do grazing cattle do to the poor desert tortoise that millions of dollars in domestic/foreign investment on that same land doesn't do? I think I can see the distinction. It's 'green.' Whether one can 'pin-point' a boogy man to lay blame for this may be up for debate. But there are decades old, longstanding and deeply held grievances that those outside of the 'West' and the usage of millions of open acres don't even begin to understand.Post of the century. paolo, you nailed it!

paolo59
04-16-2014, 11:01 PM
Post of the century. paolo, you nailed it!

Ha ha! I'm a 'romantic.' Lost causes are my bread and butter. Have you ever heard of Don Quixote? LMAO In Texas we don't have 'tons' of federally controlled land. In some western states, the great majority is just that. Once State, now Federal. I don't imagine that many folk have any idea how many acres of deep, forest green, 6 inch high pasture that it would take to sustain a herd of 1,000 head of cattle! :( Translate that to dry, scrub brush, high desert Nevada! What you could do with 200 head of cattle East of the Mississippi, you couldn't even begin to do with two head once you get 800 to 1,000 miles West of that great, rolling river. Cows eat lots of ($*%!

This is just my take on the whole thing; If I were a freakin' cow on 'Rancher Bundy's 'not paid for grazing rights federally controlled land;' I could wander around, stomp all over everywhere, and in 15 to 26 days I'd never even come across one of those 'endangered tortoises!'

Frnkd
04-17-2014, 09:57 AM
Brother, this has everything to do about land, and its' usage. There is an interesting statement that has been issued by the Nevada Cattlemen Association on this subject. It can be found on any number of internet sites, among them KRNV-DT out of Reno. They take no side in the BLM/Bundy standoff, but are obviously sympathetic to his plight and circumstances. The demand to decrease your herds by 500% to protect a desert tortoise who's 'endangered status' is questionable, to say the least, speaks directly to the land and how it can be used. What was the 'genesis' of the rancher's unwillingness to pay 'federal grazing rights?' He was perfectly willing to pay the Nevada county on which the land is located. BLM policies and dictates that would drive cattle ranching into extinction are an ever increasing concern to every rancher in the Western United States. Those policies are a concern to every Cattlemen Association in those states.

The question remains, what do grazing cattle do to the poor desert tortoise that millions of dollars in domestic/foreign investment on that same land doesn't do? I think I can see the distinction. It's 'green.' Whether one can 'pin-point' a boogy man to lay blame for this may be up for debate. But there are decades old, longstanding and deeply held grievances that those outside of the 'West' and the usage of millions of open acres don't even begin to understand.

And your thoughts than on those rightful land owners in Nebraska which to me is more an issue than this loose canon who is using the "I'm a victim" "poor me" role. These Nebraskan farmers and native Americans are fighting this Canadian oil company trying to get their land through eminent domain.
They have and continue to use every legal means to stop this pipeline.
Mr bundy on the other hand have taken the LAW in his own hands.....for more than 20 years! About time to pay up I say.
This pick and choose what law to follow is getting out of hand. Elected officials themselves are promoting this kind of behavior. The danger of this kind of behavior is now IMO evolving with these vigilanty groups popping up with any excuse they can find to further their own agenda.
Protesting through peaceful means is the American way, but peaceful does not mean with guns pointing at whom you see as "the enemy".

These BLM people are doing their jobs, they too have families and are Americans, less we forget. Just because a few don't like what they are doing, enforcing the law, doesn't justify having their guns pointed at them. This could have turned into a Kent State very easily if someone made a sound that resembled a gun shot, or a trigger happy militia slipped.
Who had their guns drawn?

Sad affairs any way you look at it. What are we teaching our kids? Anyway you look at it, violence is not a means of protest.

Back to Nebraska......

SP1966
04-17-2014, 02:34 PM
This pick and choose what law to follow is getting out of hand. Elected officials themselves are promoting this kind of behavior.


http://neveryetmelted.com/wp-images/ObamaSmile.jpg

Sorry man, but the guy you helped elect sure isn't concerned with the rule of law. His bazillion executive orders rewriting the ACA law in order to protect Dem's in two consecutive elections makes clear. His pathetically worthless AG suggests it's acceptable for AG's to not enforce laws they disagree with.

The rule of law exists for all of us or none of us.

TnRob
04-17-2014, 03:22 PM
Sad affairs any way you look at it. What are we teaching our kids? Anyway you look at it, violence is not a means of protest.


Where have you been for the last 30 years? Violence is preached in the streets, in music, in film, even by parents. It ain't nothing new that just mysteriously popped up out of nowhere.

Frnkd
04-17-2014, 04:53 PM
Yes, you are.

His family has owned the grazing rights to that land for well over 100 years. He has paid the fees/taxes up until the point at which it became clear that the BLM was using his 'taxes' against him in an attempt to defraud him of his rights. They did the same to a number of other ranchers, this one simply didn't turn tail and run......

owning the grazing rights does not make one own the land, sounds similar to a lease to me.....he did not have a free for all to the use of the land, he had taken some liberties and was being called upon it. Just because he didnt like it under the guise of Freedom, his cry of "we have grazed this land for a 100 years" rhetoric doesn't make him above the law.....amazing how people get sucked into the victim role.

Forget the reptile....its just a smoke screen.
He still owes for what he hasnt paid, for over 20 years.

Frnkd
04-17-2014, 05:02 PM
Where have you been for the last 30 years? Violence is preached in the streets, in music, in film, even by parents. It ain't nothing new that just mysteriously popped up out of nowhere.

Doesn't make it right does it?

SP1966
04-17-2014, 05:19 PM
owning the grazing rights does not make one own the land, sounds similar to a lease to me.....he did not have a free for all to the use of the land, he had taken some liberties and was being called upon it. Just because he didnt like it under the guise of Freedom, his cry of "we have grazed this land for a 100 years" rhetoric doesn't make him above the law.....amazing how people get sucked into the victim role.

Forget the reptile....its just a smoke screen.
He still owes for what he hasnt paid, for over 20 years.

The issue here isn't taxes, it's how government is using it's power to pick winners and losers. Want to build on land set aside for the same turtles? Donate heavily to politicians. Don't donate to politicians and see them select your business for extinction. The issue is corruption in government, but if you wish to focus only on fees have at it.

thomashenry
04-17-2014, 05:24 PM
http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/959/1949/original.jpg

Corbi
04-17-2014, 05:37 PM
The issue here isn't taxes, it's how government is using it's power to pick winners and losers. Want to build on land set aside for the same turtles? Donate heavily to politicians. Don't donate to politicians and see them select your business for extinction. The issue is corruption in government, but if you wish to focus only on fees have at it.

The supposed fees are simply a bull$hit smoke screen, funny how they haven't said jack squat to the guy for 20 yrs and now all of a sudden it becomes an issue requiring SWAT and tanks to roll in?

And I looked up those "fees" and came up with $1.23 per animal per month, somehow it's all based on numbers from 1966 and hasn't been changed. So let's say he had 1,000 cattle for the past 20 years at $14760 per year, thats $295,000. Where do people come up figures such as he owes $20 million or in 1 case I read it was somehow $630 million?

thomashenry
04-17-2014, 05:41 PM
The supposed fees are simply a bull$hit smoke screen, funny how they haven't said jack squat to the guy for 20 yrs and now all of a sudden it becomes an issue requiring SWAT and tanks to roll in?

And I looked up those "fees" and came up with $1.23 per animal per month, somehow it's all based on numbers from 1966 and hasn't been changed. So let's say he had 1,000 cattle for the past 20 years at $14760 per year, thats $295,000. Where do people come up figures such as he owes $20 million or in 1 case I read it was somehow $630 million? Common Core, 4 out 3 agree-----------27 seconds in is how I feel when Obama or any of the other Neophyte Statists open their Yap: http://youtu.be/odQ6NXYMjGs

Frnkd
04-18-2014, 01:49 AM
The supposed fees are simply a bull$hit smoke screen, funny how they haven't said jack squat to the guy for 20 yrs and now all of a sudden it becomes an issue requiring SWAT and tanks to roll in?

And I looked up those "fees" and came up with $1.23 per animal per month, somehow it's all based on numbers from 1966 and hasn't been changed. So let's say he had 1,000 cattle for the past 20 years at $14760 per year, thats $295,000. Where do people come up figures such as he owes $20 million or in 1 case I read it was somehow $630 million?

Again is it fair the other ranchers pay these acceptable fees and he decides he don't want to. He owes a million plus, plain and simple. What is the purpose of stating such a rediculous amount?
He's been to court 3 times. Over the last 20 years. Why seek the fees now? Why not. The question than is why make THIS story more important than something more legitimate like the Nebraska land owners plight with eminent domain for a foreign companies pipeline.

This is a story of a freeloader, who has been given more attention than it needs it. No one is endorsing this guy accept Hannaty.

Support the Nebraskan farmers and land owners and the native Americans.

JediRN
04-18-2014, 03:21 AM
Anyone deadlift today? It helps

Working on low weight high rep SLDL fpr hammie hypertrophy gainz. up until now I've been focusing on strength (i've been lifting for ~6 months) I read somewhere on bbb.com that leg muscles responds well to a time under tension approach.

and you?

Corbi
04-18-2014, 04:47 AM
Again is it fair the other ranchers pay these acceptable fees and he decides he don't want to. He owes a million plus, plain and simple. What is the purpose of stating such a rediculous amount?
He's been to court 3 times. Over the last 20 years. Why seek the fees now? Why not. The question than is why make THIS story more important than something more legitimate like the Nebraska land owners plight with eminent domain for a foreign companies pipeline.

This is a story of a freeloader, who has been given more attention than it needs it. No one is endorsing this guy accept Hannaty.

Support the Nebraskan farmers and land owners and the native Americans.

Let's say this rancher was a Native American Indian, do you think our government would be going after him like this?

Frnkd
04-18-2014, 11:40 AM
Let's say this rancher was a Native American Indian, do you think our government would be going after him like this?

why wouldn't they?

I don't care what kind of people are committing the crime. You do the crime you pay the fine. simple.

Also the reference to Native Americans in my comment is that they are joining the land owners in Nebraska to oppose the pipeline. It may have appeared as I was including them as separate from the Nebraska issue. sorry for the confusion. Is that why you posed the scenario?

http://landownersagainsttranscanadapipeline.org/
http://boldnebraska.org/reject-protect-press-resources/

Frnkd
04-18-2014, 11:42 AM
The issue here isn't taxes, it's how government is using it's power to pick winners and losers. Want to build on land set aside for the same turtles? Donate heavily to politicians. Don't donate to politicians and see them select your business for extinction. The issue is corruption in government, but if you wish to focus only on fees have at it.

ROFL

Its a good thing I have great respect for your passion!!!!


:D


Now what was your original post?

How did it get from the Japanese to turtles?

ROFL

Corbi
04-18-2014, 02:16 PM
http://www.infowars.com/flashback-sen-reid-breaks-ground-for-nevada-solar-farm-near-bundy-ranch/

HarvardMan53
04-19-2014, 08:06 AM
How about the stupidity of Harry Reid and the BLM over the entire Bundy ranch deal? The $hit in this country is coming to a head, a lot of people are fed up and are refusing to shut up and sit down when told to do so.

Bundy should pay up. These thugs who are defending him are no better than inner city gang members and drug deals. If you're for this thug Bundy you must be for the thug gang members. You can't have it both ways.

HarvardMan53
04-19-2014, 08:17 AM
Brother, this has everything to do about land, and its' usage. There is an interesting statement that has been issued by the Nevada Cattlemen Association on this subject. It can be found on any number of internet sites, among them KRNV-DT out of Reno. They take no side in the BLM/Bundy standoff, but are obviously sympathetic to his plight and circumstances. The demand to decrease your herds by 500% to protect a desert tortoise who's 'endangered status' is questionable, to say the least, speaks directly to the land and how it can be used. What was the 'genesis' of the rancher's unwillingness to pay 'federal grazing rights?' He was perfectly willing to pay the Nevada county on which the land is located. BLM policies and dictates that would drive cattle ranching into extinction are an ever increasing concern to every rancher in the Western United States. Those policies are a concern to every Cattlemen Association in those states.

The question remains, what do grazing cattle do to the poor desert tortoise that millions of dollars in domestic/foreign investment on that same land doesn't do? I think I can see the distinction. It's 'green.' Whether one can 'pin-point' a boogy man to lay blame for this may be up for debate. But there are decades old, longstanding and deeply held grievances that those outside of the 'West' and the usage of millions of open acres don't even begin to understand.

Wrong. Bundy is stealing from the federal government which means everyone else will have their taxes raised to pay for this.

The thugs defending Bundy are using women as human shields. Just like Middle East terrorist. While I support the right of a citizen to own a gun gor protection, these thugs should be arrested, thrown in jail and barred for life from owing a gun. Harry Reid is all talk. The federal agents must arrest these thugs and throw every one of them in prison. We are a nation of laws and we must follow them.

If you don't like a law, try and get it changed. Trying to overthrow the government which is what these thugs are for is unacceptable and must be dealt with swiftly and harshly.

HarvardMan53
04-19-2014, 08:19 AM
I won't disagree. But again, Sharpton has nothing to do with the situation at hand. This is what I mean by arguing Sharpton as a defense in this land case. The two aren't related.

The old straw man and inject something unrelated. But in some ways they are related.

Sharpton is a thug just like these militia members are and both deserve to be in prison. Sharpton defends gang thugs who are just like these militia thugs except for different political stripes.

HarvardMan53
04-19-2014, 08:22 AM
Let's say this rancher was a Native American Indian, do you think our government would be going after him like this?

Another straw man. And yes it would be the duty of our government to go after him.

HarvardMan53
04-19-2014, 08:26 AM
Again is it fair the other ranchers pay these acceptable fees and he decides he don't want to. He owes a million plus, plain and simple. What is the purpose of stating such a rediculous amount?
He's been to court 3 times. Over the last 20 years. Why seek the fees now? Why not. The question than is why make THIS story more important than something more legitimate like the Nebraska land owners plight with eminent domain for a foreign companies pipeline.

This is a story of a freeloader, who has been given more attention than it needs it. No one is endorsing this guy accept Hannaty.

Support the Nebraskan farmers and land owners and the native Americans.

He's breaking the law plain and simple. Wouldn't it be nice if I could skip property taxes and income taxes and state taxes and sales taxes for 20 years? I'd be arrested and thrown in jail rightfully so if I tried. The law says I owe these taxes. I don't get excited or even like paying taxes but I have to. It is my constitutional right to vote for different legislators if I want taxes lowered.

TnRob
04-19-2014, 09:07 AM
How did it get from the Japanese to turtles?

ROFL


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0nSvP_lia1Q/UiZP193dDvI/AAAAAAAAkLc/SLAuQ09LbZQ/s1600/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles.jpg

paolo59
04-19-2014, 09:32 AM
Interesting news out of Salt Lake City, Utah. Some 50 political leaders and state commissioners from 9 different Western states are meeting in Utah to discuss taking back control of Federal lands within their borders. The meeting had nothing to do with the BLM/Bundy standoff, it was scheduled months before the incident. But it certainly speaks to the grievances and concerns held by every Western state when it comes to the BLM and its' policies. "Bad policy, politicized science, and severe budget cuts." Sounds like folks out West are as fed up with the Feds as Mr. Bundy is! :) LOL We'll, everybody but Harry Reid. Ha ha!

HarvardMan53
04-19-2014, 09:51 AM
Interesting news out of Salt Lake City, Utah. Some 50 political leaders and state commissioners from 9 different Western states are meeting in Utah to discuss taking back control of Federal lands within their borders. The meeting had nothing to do with the BLM/Bundy standoff, it was scheduled months before the incident. But it certainly speaks to the grievances and concerns held by every Western state when it comes to the BLM and its' policies. "Bad policy, politicized science, and severe budget cuts." Sounds like folks out West are as fed up with the Feds as Mr. Bundy is! :) LOL We'll, everybody but Harry Reid. Ha ha!
If you don't like the law, move. Bundy should be handcuffed and hauled away.

paolo59
04-19-2014, 09:55 AM
If you don't like the law, move. Bundy should be handcuffed and hauled away.

LMAO From what I've seen this morning, in just a few posts, there's somebody else who might ought to be handcuffed and hauled away...to a padded cell somewhere. :(

HarvardMan53
04-19-2014, 09:59 AM
LMAO From what I've seen this morning, in just a few posts, there's somebody else who might ought to be handcuffed and hauled away...to a padded cell somewhere. :(
You? Those defending him in an armed standoff are domestic terrorists should be hauled away. The are even using women as human shields.

Phattso
04-19-2014, 08:54 PM
You? Those defending him in an armed standoff are domestic terrorists should be hauled away. The are even using women as human shields.

Lol. Pretty good trollin'.

HarvardMan53
04-19-2014, 09:07 PM
Lol. Pretty good trollin'.

Googles your friend. Use it.

so-tex
04-19-2014, 09:09 PM
Googles your friend. Use it.You sure are a condescending little pr!ck.