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View Full Version : Nevada Rancher v. Feds: Proof Murrika is Insane



IDrinkBloodLOL
04-12-2014, 06:48 PM
Okay, I've been thinking about this showdown business and what it really means and I've come to my conclusion.

Does the government have some kind of valid-ish claim that the man should've been paying fees and getting approval to graze his cows?

Sure.

Does he have some kind of valid-ish claim that he should have a right to graze his cows on what by right of original settlement and then inheritance is pretty much his land?

Sure.

Who's "right" is up for heated debate. If the answer were clear, there would be no debate.

However, if you stop and think about it, isn't it thoroughly insane that the government literally values code enforcement by technicality over food production?

Seriously. The man is a rancher, and I read somewhere that he owns what - like $3 million worth of cows? I haven't confirmed, but he's obviously invested in the food production process and busily producing food for the rest of the country. I don't know what kind of rancher the man is, but I can presume that with a fair degree of feasibility I think.

Isn't it more important to have food than it is to have paper money and neatly organized forms, even at a national scale?

I contest that it is, and that this should be obvious, and that the fact that nobody else sees this is my proof that 99% of the modern world is irredeemably insane and needs a dictator to tell them how to think for their own good.

If I were dictator and my guns tried to dick with the food production mechanism without a damned good reason, they'd be out of a job in a hurry. If I ran the show I'd at least make sure you people got to eat before worrying about little crap.

TaeBoNinja
04-12-2014, 07:07 PM
Cliven doesn't really have a case. This dispute goes back 20 years when he stopped paying his fees. Every other rancher in the area does, but Cliven has flatout ignored the law. So last year a federal judge enjoined him from grazing there, and the Feds are finally(remember we're talking 20 years) acting on it.

The whole thing is nauseating to me. To see so many on right acting like this guy is some hero is baffling.

IDrinkBloodLOL
04-12-2014, 07:25 PM
Whether he has a case or not is irrelevant: America is willing to shut down a significant food production operation over technicality.

That kind of mindset is not a sign of a promising future.

tsbalr120
04-12-2014, 07:29 PM
Great post IDB. I also find it funny that the money spent to mobilize the fed response to the guy costs way more than they would get out of those land fees anyway.

But on the flip-side, grazing leases are all over the south west. It isn't a new thing, he paid them in the past. Unless it comes out that they were raising prices exponentially to force him out or something, I can't see his case. But from what I read he's a boarderline CTer that doesn't regonize the US gov and just stopped paying because he thinks he's above the law. Like I said in the other thread, I feel like this is equivilent to me refusing to pay a parking meeter in the city, then throwing away the tickets I get, and getting violent when they come to tow my car.


Both sides are an embarressment to this country.

AfroPope
04-12-2014, 07:30 PM
Whether he has a case or not is irrelevant: America is willing to shut down a significant food production operation over technicality.

That kind of mindset is not a sign of a promising future.

$3 Million worth of cattle is 3,000 cows (roughly $1,000 each). This is not a significant part of our national food source. Not even a blip on the radar.


Great post IDB. I also find it funny that the money spent to mobilize the fed response to the guy costs way more than they would get out of those land fees anyway.

But on the flip-side, grazing leases are all over the south west. It isn't a new thing, he paid them in the past. Unless it comes out that they were raising prices exponentially to force him out or something, I can't see his case. But from what I read he's a boarderline CTer that doesn't regonize the US gov and just stopped paying because he thinks he's above the law. Like I said in the other thread, I feel like this is equivilent to me refusing to pay a parking meeter in the city, then throwing away the tickets I get, and getting violent when they come to tow my car.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

tnel00
04-12-2014, 07:35 PM
Cliven doesn't really have a case. This dispute goes back 20 years when he stopped paying his fees. Every other rancher in the area does, but Cliven has flatout ignored the law. So last year a federal judge enjoined him from grazing there, and the Feds are finally(remember we're talking 20 years) acting on it.

The whole thing is nauseating to me. To see so many on right acting like this guy is some hero is baffling.

What other ranchers?

Are you referring to the ones that don't exist anymore because they were regulated off that land? The ones that gave in to the bull**** demands of the BLM that you support and could no longer make a living as a rancher?

Tell me...how does a rancher who has 1000 cows suddenly make a living when regulation is passed making it illegal to have more than 150 cows?

Tell me...what does the Gov't do with this land that in any way supports the need for forcing ranchers to pay a grazing fee?

HELIX35
04-12-2014, 07:40 PM
The blatant racist thinks murica is wrong

shocking

If Cliven were black OP wouldn't care

IDrinkBloodLOL
04-12-2014, 07:40 PM
$3 Million worth of cattle is 3,000 cows (roughly $1,000 each). This is not a significant part of our national food source. Not even a blip on the radar.

"Oh it's not a big deal, just thousands of animals."

Doesn't take applying that kind of logic too many times to start having a real problem. You know that saying about minding your pennies, how your dollars will take care of themselves? You should probably know that works in reverse.

AfroPope
04-12-2014, 07:44 PM
"Oh it's not a big deal, just thousands of animals."

Doesn't take applying that kind of logic too many times to start having a real problem. You know that saying about minding your pennies, how your dollars will take care of themselves? You should probably know that works in reverse.

I'm just telling you that the fundamental premise of your argument - that this man was responsible for a "significant" part of our national food production - is demonstrably false.

tnel00
04-12-2014, 07:45 PM
I'm just telling you that the fundamental premise of your argument - that this man was responsible for a "significant" part of our national food production - is demonstrably false.

Do enjoy the taste of Harry Reid's cock?

AfroPope
04-12-2014, 07:46 PM
Do enjoy the taste of Harry Reid's cock?

It's delicious. Now get off my nuts, you bitchmade retard, adults are talking.

IDrinkBloodLOL
04-12-2014, 07:49 PM
I'm just telling you that the fundamental premise of your argument - that this man was responsible for a "significant" part of our national food production - is demonstrably false.

"It's okay, we just blow enough food to feed a whole suburb, not a big deal."

People like you are why poverty exists - not because your beliefs comply with the "wrong" party ideology, but because you are obviously a wasteful person.

AfroPope
04-12-2014, 07:53 PM
"It's okay, we just blow enough food to feed a whole suburb, not a big deal."

People like you are why poverty exists - not because your beliefs comply with the "wrong" party ideology, but because you are obviously a wasteful person.

You're extrapolating a whole bunch and reading things I never said.

ALL I said was that Cliven Bundy (lol what a name) wasn't responsible for a significant part of US Food Production, and as such your frame of reference is skewed. That's it. That's ALL I said.

IDrinkBloodLOL
04-12-2014, 08:03 PM
You're extrapolating a whole bunch and reading things I never said.

ALL I said was that Cliven Bundy (lol what a name) wasn't responsible for a significant part of US Food Production, and as such your frame of reference is skewed. That's it. That's ALL I said.
http://i.imgur.com/K0k0OZZ.jpg

tnel00
04-12-2014, 08:04 PM
You're extrapolating a whole bunch and reading things I never said.

ALL I said was that Cliven Bundy (lol what a name) wasn't responsible for a significant part of US Food Production, and as such your frame of reference is skewed. That's it. That's ALL I said.

oh so you believe the actions of the BLM in this situation are isolated?

TaeBoNinja
04-12-2014, 08:16 PM
Whether he has a case or not is irrelevant: America is willing to shut down a significant food production operation over technicality.

That kind of mindset is not a sign of a promising future.
Actually, whether he has a case is the real issue. The rancher is making a profit and not paying any fees. I run my own company and have to deal with crap fees too, that's the cost of doing business.


What other ranchers?

Are you referring to the ones that don't exist anymore because they were regulated off that land? The ones that gave in to the bull**** demands of the BLM that you support and could no longer make a living as a rancher?

Tell me...how does a rancher who has 1000 cows suddenly make a living when regulation is passed making it illegal to have more than 150 cows?

Tell me...what does the Gov't do with this land that in any way supports the need for forcing ranchers to pay a grazing fee?
Oh boohoo, I'm sure Native Americans are shedding tears right now.

It's federal land, deal with it. I would love to claim part of a beach in So Cal for myself, but guess what, i can't. Hell, I own property in LA, but guess what, I still have to pay taxes on it.

tnel00
04-12-2014, 08:18 PM
Oh boohoo, I'm sure Native Americans are shedding tears right now.

It's federal land, deal with it. I would love to claim part of a beach in So Cal for myself, but guess what, i can't. Hell, I own property in LA, but guess what, I still have to pay taxes on it.

Rancher has stated numerous times he had no problem paying the fees to the State. It was to the Federal Gov't he took issue with, and deservedly so.

IDrinkBloodLOL
04-12-2014, 08:25 PM
Actually, whether he has a case is the real issue. The rancher is making a profit and not paying any fees. I run my own company and have to deal with crap fees too, that's the cost of doing business.
"Whether or not we have material prosperity is not as important as whether or not we have currency"

jmonty
04-12-2014, 08:27 PM
Do enjoy the taste of Harry Reid's cock?

That's an unusual question given the previous posts.

tsbalr120
04-12-2014, 08:29 PM
Rancher has stated numerous times he had no problem paying the fees to the State. It was to the Federal Gov't he took issue with, and deservedly so.

Is the state not allowing the Fed to work these lands? I haven't read any article of NV fighting this agency about these lands.

TaeBoNinja
04-12-2014, 08:42 PM
Rancher has stated numerous times he had no problem paying the fees to the State. It was to the Federal Gov't he took issue with, and deservedly so.
It's not up to him to decide. Two federal judges told him that if he didn't remove his cattle from the land they could be seized.

Are we a nation of laws or not?

tnel00
04-12-2014, 08:49 PM
It's not up to him to decide. Two federal judges told him that if he didn't remove his cattle from the land they could be seized.

Are we a nation of laws or not?

Judge's rule based on laws

Politicians enact laws

In this case, politicians enacted laws essentially making what he and his family had been doing legally for over 100 years illegal.

**** the politicians. **** anyone who supports them in this case as well.

TaeBoNinja
04-12-2014, 09:09 PM
Judge's rule based on laws

Politicians enact laws

In this case, politicians enacted laws essentially making what he and his family had been doing legally for over 100 years illegal.

**** the politicians. **** anyone who supports them in this case as well.
Citizens vote politicians into office. Elections have consequences.

And again, I'm sure Native Americans would get a chuckle over the ancestral land argument.

tnel00
04-12-2014, 09:11 PM
And again, I'm sure Native Americans would get a chuckle over the ancestral land argument.

This isn't being argued here...stop trying to distract from the topic in support of your statist overlords

Renegade83
04-12-2014, 09:15 PM
This isn't being argued here...stop trying to distract from the topic in support of your statist overlords

Laws are laws. You don't get to decide which ones you want to follow and not have to deal with the consequences of your actions.

sayso
04-12-2014, 09:17 PM
lol this **** is funny

In 2005 (i think) there was a similar case in Wyoming about public land being used by ranchers that was near some land connected to the Cheney family, the right labeled the guy an unpatriotic leeching terrorist, the left said he was taking a stand against Bush's nazi laws.

Funny how mindsets flip so fast when politics is introduced.

Will you guys be shocked in 2016 if a republican wins and we dive even deeper into debt and liberals suddenly start worrying about spending like they did in the Bush years? I won't.

Same ****, different day, different party.

tnel00
04-12-2014, 09:20 PM
Laws are laws. You don't get to decide which ones you want to follow and not have to deal with the consequences of your actions.

except common law is actually on his side


lol this **** is funny

In 2005 (i think) there was a similar case in Wyoming about public land being used by ranchers that was near some land connected to the Cheney family, the right labeled the guy an unpatriotic leeching terrorist, the left said he was taking a stand against Bush's nazi laws.

Funny how mindsets flip so fast when politics is introduced.

Will you guys be shocked in 2016 if a republican wins and we dive even deeper into debt and liberals suddenly start worrying about spending like they did in the Bush years? I won't.

Same ****, different day, different party.

Liberals have never cared about spending levels

Renegade83
04-12-2014, 09:21 PM
except common law is actually on his side



Liberals have never cared about spending levels

Actually no, its not. Two federal judges already shut him down. Last time I checked, the judicial branch decides if a law is lawful. It's in that pesky Constitution thing.

IDrinkBloodLOL
04-12-2014, 09:21 PM
Liberals have never cared about spending levels

Hardmode: Republicans are also liberals.

TaeBoNinja
04-12-2014, 09:25 PM
This isn't being argued here...stop trying to distract from the topic in support of your statist overlords
There's nothing to argue. It's federal land and two judges ordered him to pay the fees or they would seize the cattle.

tnel00
04-12-2014, 09:25 PM
Hardmode: Republicans are also liberals.

No argument here

Liff_Wates
04-12-2014, 09:46 PM
Is the state not allowing the Fed to work these lands? I haven't read any article of NV fighting this agency about these lands.

http://gov.nv.gov/News-and-Media/Press/2014/Sandoval-Statement-on-BLM-Roundup/

tsbalr120
04-12-2014, 09:53 PM
http://gov.nv.gov/News-and-Media/Press/2014/Sandoval-Statement-on-BLM-Roundup/

Interesting.

I may have to more research on BLM and their relations with states. Thanks.

Liff_Wates
04-12-2014, 10:00 PM
Interesting.

I may have to more research on BLM and their relations with states. Thanks.

Yeah look into the BLM's powers and how they're able to exercise them too.

Haplo21
04-12-2014, 10:10 PM
Great post IDB. I also find it funny that the money spent to mobilize the fed response to the guy costs way more than they would get out of those land fees anyway.

But on the flip-side, grazing leases are all over the south west. It isn't a new thing, he paid them in the past. Unless it comes out that they were raising prices exponentially to force him out or something, I can't see his case. But from what I read he's a boarderline CTer that doesn't regonize the US gov and just stopped paying because he thinks he's above the law. Like I said in the other thread, I feel like this is equivilent to me refusing to pay a parking meeter in the city, then throwing away the tickets I get, and getting violent when they come to tow my car.


Both sides are an embarressment to this country.


Great post IDB. I also find it funny that the money spent to mobilize the fed response to the guy costs way more than they would get out of those land fees anyway.

But on the flip-side, grazing leases are all over the south west. It isn't a new thing, he paid them in the past. Unless it comes out that they were raising prices exponentially to force him out or something, I can't see his case. But from what I read he's a boarderline CTer that doesn't regonize the US gov and just stopped paying because he thinks he's above the law. Like I said in the other thread, I feel like this is equivilent to me refusing to pay a parking meeter in the city, then throwing away the tickets I get, and getting violent when they come to tow my car.


Both sides are an embarressment to this country.

I am with you right up until the part that you insinuated it was the rancher getting violent in your analogy.

If some guy hadnt paid the parking meter in your city would you send armed men to arrest him and kill him if he resists?

The expense and potential government initiated violence in the situation is staggering. Would you personally pay to send a bunch of trucks, equipment, and men to Nevada to confiscate this guys cattle and personally shoot the guy if he tried to stop you? No? Then why would you have your government do it?

jacklambert58
04-12-2014, 10:15 PM
aware me on the difference between this rancher and tax protestors like wesley snipes? seems like if you support one than you have to support both?

Surely it's not about the food supply - no one would say it was okay for me to take over 10 acres of Yellowstone National Park and turn it into a farm.

metroins
04-12-2014, 10:19 PM
It's pretty cut and dry.

ICrapBig
04-12-2014, 10:37 PM
Harry Reid and his son behind the entire scandal. Chinese solar farms.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2014/04/12/bombshell-harry-reid-behind-bundy-cattle-ranch-scandal-according-to-purged-documents-112136

sawoobley
04-12-2014, 10:45 PM
aware me on the difference between this rancher and tax protestors like wesley snipes? seems like if you support one than you have to support both?

Surely it's not about the food supply - no one would say it was okay for me to take over 10 acres of Yellowstone National Park and turn it into a farm.

Here you go...


Those who say Bundy is a “deadbeat” are making inaccurate claims. Bundy has in fact paid fees to Clark County, Nevada in an arrangement pre-dating the BLM. The BLM arrived much later, changed the details of the setup without consulting with Bundy — or any other rancher — and then began systematically driving out cattle and ranchers. Bundy refused to pay BLM, especially after they demanded he reduce his heard’s head count down to a level that would not sustain his ranch. Bundy OWNS the water and forage rights to this land. He paid for these rights. He built fences, established water ways, and constructed roads with his own money, with the approval of Nevada and BLM. When BLM started using his fees to run him off the land and harassing him, he ceased paying. So should BLM reimburse him for managing the land and for the confiscation of his water and forage rights?

Cliven Bundy’s problem isn’t that he didn’t pay — he did — or that his cattle bother tortoises — they don’t — it’s that he’s not a Reid donor.


http://danaloeschradio.com/the-real-story-of-the-bundy-ranch/


The federal government has surrounded the Bundy family ranch outside Las Vegas with snipers, heavily militarized police, vicious police dogs, black SUV’s, helicopters, low flying airplanes and automatic weapons. Cliven Bundy, is a patriotic rancher whose family has had the right to graze his cattle on this land since the 1870’s. Since before there was a BLM. Bundy does not believe he owes fees to the BLM. He recognizes this as a States’ Rights issue.

After well over a century with grazing rights on this land, suddenly in the 1990’s the federal government demanded rent to allow the Bundy family’s cattle to graze on it. Bundy claims his rights to graze came from the State of Nevada, not the BLM, and has already paid fees to Clark County, Nevada. Bundy already owns the water and forage rights to the land.

The feds blame this assault on the fact that desert tortoises reside on this land. The government is now using the tortoise as their “cover” for an armed assault on an American ranching family. Yet it is important to note that this same BLM has waived rules protecting the desert tortoise on numerous occasions to support wind and solar projects favored by U.S. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.

http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2014/04/wayne-allyn-root-on-the-nevada-standoff-2835354.html

Liff_Wates
04-12-2014, 10:57 PM
BLM can't afford to save tortoises

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/25/desert-tortoise-faces-threat-from-its-own-refuge-as-blm-closes-vegas-rescue/

spends multimillions to collect $1 million in order to save tortoises.

government money management ftw.

Ogxea-zDxSs

eltigar
04-13-2014, 01:24 AM
This is an attempt to destroy the traditional farmer.
That bundy guy should be hailed a hero.
He literally is standing in the face of tyranny.

AfroPope
04-13-2014, 01:29 AM
http://i.imgur.com/K0k0OZZ.jpg

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130806122705/glee/images/6/6f/28468-Taylor-swift-lol-gif-OMBg.gif


Rancher has stated numerous times he had no problem paying the fees to the State. It was to the Federal Gov't he took issue with, and deservedly so.

As has been said, you don't get to decide who you pay the fees to. If I get a parking ticket, I don't get to arbitrarily just add $20 to my taxes and then pull a gun on the towtruck guy.


I am with you right up until the part that you insinuated it was the rancher getting violent in your analogy.

If some guy hadnt paid the parking meter in your city would you send armed men to arrest him and kill him if he resists?

The expense and potential government initiated violence in the situation is staggering. Would you personally pay to send a bunch of trucks, equipment, and men to Nevada to confiscate this guys cattle and personally shoot the guy if he tried to stop you? No? Then why would you have your government do it?

That isn't what happened at all.

Weightaholic
04-13-2014, 01:46 AM
Do you just get to graze your cattle on other peoples property now?

AfroPope
04-13-2014, 01:49 AM
Do you just get to graze your cattle on other peoples property now?

Apparently yes! Welcome to Whose Country is it Anyway, where everything's made up and the laws don't matter.

eltigar
04-13-2014, 05:46 AM
Apparently yes! Welcome to Whose Country is it Anyway, where everything's made up and the laws don't matter.


its his land you phaggot.
how very marxist of you to have the state take away a mans land.

JMath
04-13-2014, 06:13 AM
Cliven doesn't really have a case. This dispute goes back 20 years when he stopped paying his fees. Every other rancher in the area does, but Cliven has flatout ignored the law. So last year a federal judge enjoined him from grazing there, and the Feds are finally(remember we're talking 20 years) acting on it.

The whole thing is nauseating to me. To see so many on right acting like this guy is some hero is baffling.

Wait a second. I haven't followed the story very well. I thought the area was some endangered turtle area or something and that's why the government was saying they couldn't graze there, and thus why they fined him. But it sounds like the government is saying "there's endangered turtles here, but if you pay us an annual fee like the other ranchers do then we will say fcuk that turtle and allow your cattle to graze in this area".

metroins
04-13-2014, 06:30 AM
its his land you phaggot.
how very marxist of you to have the state take away a mans land.

If he can produce the deed, it's his land.

A past agreement does not make it his land.

Streetbull
04-13-2014, 06:47 AM
One day, there will be a 'spark' that sets off the American people. And by 'American people' I don't mean the sh!theads who use SNAP cards to go to strip clubs or the vermin who don't want a job and wouldn't take one if offered.

By 'Americans', I mean the people who work hard and pay for all the insanity perpetrated by our power mad scum leadership. By Americans, I mean the people who fund the bankster bailouts and the SNAP card entitlement lowlifes with 8 kids by 8 different daddies.

This may be the spark that sets it off.

Streetbull
04-13-2014, 06:54 AM
http://www.infiniteunknown.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Bundy-ranch.jpg

MMAnLift
04-13-2014, 07:56 AM
Why do so many people care about what the "law" is instead of what is actually right? I know I'm going to make an extreme comparison but inb4 "Just following orders" Hitler would never steer us wrong, right guys???

sawoobley
04-13-2014, 08:08 AM
Why do so many people care about what the "law" is instead of what is actually right? I know I'm going to make an extreme comparison but inb4 "Just following orders" Hitler would never steer us wrong, right guys???

I think some people just don't like the guy and see him as a backwards hick so they'll side with the government no matter what. However, if a republican was in office and someone like Bush went after a group they cared about they would be screaming bloody murder. We would then claim it was all according to the law and they would cry the law is unjust. Internationally, if the U.S. decides to enforce a peace treaty, cease fire agreement, or a truce agreement they would cry bloody murder. We can go after a lone rancher who lets his cows graze in the desert on state land according to the agreement he has with them but if we go to war with another country or bomb them when they break their agreements with us then it's just not right.

We can send in helicopters, snipers, dogs and law enforcement to deal with a lone rancher but we aren't suppose to do much against a rogue country who attacks its neighbors. Let's be real though if people cared about the law so much half of the Obama administration would be in prison.

TaeBoNinja
04-13-2014, 08:46 AM
Why do so many people care about what the "law" is instead of what is actually right? I know I'm going to make an extreme comparison but inb4 "Just following orders" Hitler would never steer us wrong, right guys???
Because we're a nation of laws, and this thing has been going on for 20 years. Again, this guy has been given 20 freakin years to comply, and was told by 2 judges last year to move his cattle or it will be seized.

And in general people are just shaking their heads at the hypocricy of conservatives on this issue. When it comes to cop shootings, stop/frisk, NSA snooping, Snowden/Wikileaks, and Drug enforcement......we hear "the law is the law". But god forbid a rancher get only 20 years to make his case in court, nope that's a cause for a new revolution, amirite?

Some kid in the inner-city is being busted for weed, and about to have his life thrown away, but that's okay. Some rancher refuse to pay fees(which every business in the country has to deal with at some point), and he's a hero. Snowden has his life turned upside down to expose mass snooping and he's a traitor, but Cliven Bundy apparently is the man we needed and deserved.

Native Americans must be shaking their heads at all of this ancestral land talk.

MyLastSerenade
04-13-2014, 09:59 AM
Citizens vote politicians into office. Elections have consequences.

And again, I'm sure Native Americans would get a chuckle over the ancestral land argument.

Considering that the natives didn't believe in land ownership, but understood land use for the common good, I would assume they would be on the ranchers side on this one.

TaeBoNinja
04-13-2014, 10:09 AM
Considering that the natives didn't believe in land ownership, but understood land use for the common good, I would assume they would be on the ranchers side on this one.
Considering the rancher's Mormon ancestors were part of the same group that drove natives onto reservations...I doubt that very much.

Renegade83
04-13-2014, 10:14 AM
Because we're a nation of laws, and this thing has been going on for 20 years. Again, this guy has been given 20 freakin years to comply, and was told by 2 judges last year to move his cattle or it will be seized.

And in general people are just shaking their heads at the hypocricy of conservatives on this issue. When it comes to cop shootings, stop/frisk, NSA snooping, Snowden/Wikileaks, and Drug enforcement......we hear "the law is the law". But god forbid a rancher get only 20 years to make his case in court, nope that's a cause for a new revolution, amirite?

Some kid in the inner-city is being busted for weed, and about to have his life thrown away, but that's okay. Some rancher refuse to pay fees(which every business in the country has to deal with at some point), and he's a hero. Snowden has his life turned upside down to expose mass snooping and he's a traitor, but Cliven Bundy apparently is the man we needed and deserved.

Native Americans must be shaking their heads at all of this ancestral land talk.

Pretty much this. The welfare rancher supporters gnash their teeth over the constitution and tyranny and patriots and whatever. The fact of the matter is, the legislative branch created these laws, the judicial enforced it and this guy refuses to follow because he thinks he's above how our nation is run.

On a side note if you wonder why the .gov sent in all those men/dogs/whatever you only need to look at the posts in this thread. Wackos descended on that place like a plague just itching for **** to pop off.

IDrinkBloodLOL
04-13-2014, 11:26 AM
http://www.infiniteunknown.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Bundy-ranch.jpg

Lmaocalypse.

Flakker
04-13-2014, 12:12 PM
BLM can't afford to save tortoises

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/25/desert-tortoise-faces-threat-from-its-own-refuge-as-blm-closes-vegas-rescue/

spends multimillions to <snip>collect $1 million in order to save tortoises.</snip> make sure the peasants know where they stand.

government money management ftw.

[youtube]Ogxea-zDxSs[youtube]

Fixed.

jacklambert58
04-13-2014, 01:15 PM
Well I'm glad the feds had enough sense to avoid a violent conflict.

All fees should be paid in full.

Think it's disingenuous to claim the rancher has legal rights that "predate the blm." He had a license to use the land not a long term unexpired lease for a guaranteed term of time. Obviously, a licensor is free to revoke/change the terms of it's license. This rancher has no right to force anyone to do business with him on past terms no matter how old the license is - it would be like me insisting that the new Movie Theater owner keep letting me in at yester-year prices because that's what I paid yesterday.

Flakker
04-13-2014, 01:50 PM
Well I'm glad the feds had enough sense to avoid a violent conflict.

All fees should be paid in full.

Think it's disingenuous to claim the rancher has legal rights that "predate the blm." He had a license to use the land not a long term unexpired lease for a guaranteed term of time. Obviously, a licensor is free to revoke/change the terms of it's license. This rancher has no right to force anyone to do business with him on past terms no matter how old the license is - it would be like me insisting that the new Movie Theater owner keep letting me in at yester-year prices because that's what I paid yesterday.

The entire issue speaks to a larger problem in the federal government - the un-elected, un-accountable branches (aka, the alphabet soup) that can create regulations (laws) out of thin air which are material important to peoples lives, yet the people have no direct or meaningful means of redress.

jacklambert58
04-13-2014, 02:00 PM
The entire issue speaks to a larger problem in the federal government - the un-elected, un-accountable branches (aka, the alphabet soup) that can create regulations (laws) out of thin air which are material important to peoples lives, yet the people have no direct or meaningful means of redress.

I hate red tape as much as the next guy and agree there are too many regs...but it's hardly passed the way you make it out.

Every reg/rule requires enabling legislation to be passed by Congress. All regs must pass through a public comment process (now bastardized by lobbyest during the process), and all such regs are subject to many layers of appeals and judicial review, not to mention can be changed by legislation.

Our system is broken, but there is nothing extra nefarious going on at the agencies - just more memes to rile up and distract the public from the real issues.

TaeBoNinja
04-13-2014, 02:02 PM
The entire issue speaks to a larger problem in the federal government - the un-elected, un-accountable branches (aka, the alphabet soup) that can create regulations (laws) out of thin air which are material important to peoples lives, yet the people have no direct or meaningful means of redress.
The people have elections. Maybe they need to stop worrying about the D or R before the name, and the actually beliefs of the politician instead.

sawoobley
04-13-2014, 02:15 PM
The people have elections. Maybe they need to stop worrying about the D or R before the name, and the actually beliefs of the politician instead.

The D and R are related to their actual beliefs.


For the fourth straight year, no Senate Democrat was more conservative than a Senate Republican—and no Senate Republican was more liberal than a Senate Democrat. In the House, only two Democrats were more conservative than a Republican—and only two Republicans were more liberal than a Democrat. The ideological overlap between the parties in the House was less than in any previous index.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/2013-vote-ratings/the-most-divided-congress-ever-at-least-until-next-year-20140206