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View Full Version : Hobby Lobby in court for not giving employees contraception coverage



SpicyJizz
03-26-2014, 08:20 AM
Interesting article I ran across today. Basically Hobby Lobby has refused to give their employees contraceptive coverage under the affordable care act; they claim they are exercising their "religious liberty" per the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

Some of the justices are arguing that nitpicking things like this will create a clusterfuk of companies denying employees coverage for things like vaccines and flu shots, while albeit ridiculous, that it is a good point. What are you're thoughts on the subject?

further reading: http://www.salon.com/2014/03/25/justices_ginsburg_sotomoyor_and_kagan_come_out_swi nging_against_hobby_lobby_corporate_religion_claim/

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/supreme_court_dispatches/2014/03/sebelius_v_hobby_lobby_supreme_court_hears_oral_ar guments_in_the_contraception.html

leafs43
03-26-2014, 08:23 AM
Why can't employees take their ass to the drug store and buy their own contraceptive?

Messier_Object
03-26-2014, 08:25 AM
They cover 16 different contraceptive drugs. They want to be exempt from 4 of the required 20 medications because they may induce abortions after conception.

jbball92
03-26-2014, 08:25 AM
it isn't nitpicking when the provision is sexist and discriminates.

Messier_Object
03-26-2014, 08:26 AM
Why can't employees take their ass to the drug store and buy their own contraceptive?

Because women's rights, health, and reproductive choices. :/

leafs43
03-26-2014, 08:27 AM
Because women's rights, health, and reproductive choices. :/


Why can't employees take their ass to the drug store and buy their own contraceptive?

Supernautx
03-26-2014, 08:27 AM
Take off birth control and plan B as long as you take off Viagra and Cialis and other dick raising medicine.

However, I feel like a lot of these religious rampages lose a lot of the facts in the fight. Most of that stuff doesn't cause abortions, it prevents the sperm from fertilizing the egg. Some change the uterine wall.

Anyway. Deny birth control and contraceptives and deny drugs for men too. Otherwise it's bull****.

SpicyJizz
03-26-2014, 08:30 AM
Because women's rights, health, and reproductive choices. :/

hope not srs

MuscleXtreme
03-26-2014, 08:31 AM
Take off birth control and plan B as long as you take off Viagra and Cialis and other dick raising medicine.

However, I feel like a lot of these religious rampages lose a lot of the facts in the fight. Most of that stuff doesn't cause abortions, it prevents the sperm from fertilizing the egg. Some change the uterine wall.

Anyway. Deny birth control and contraceptives and deny drugs for men too. Otherwise it's bull****.



Deny what drugs for men? And under what grounds?

jamesvt
03-26-2014, 08:31 AM
You can get BC at Walmart for $10 a month why the hell do you need insurance to cover that?
BRB going to start complaining my multi vitamin and fish oil aren't being covered.

Messier_Object
03-26-2014, 08:34 AM
Why can't employees take their ass to the drug store and buy their own contraceptive?

I'm just giving the reason why it was included. I second your assessment.

Although, birth control pills are used for more than a contraceptive. I think like any medication, they should follow under the same guidelines if they are needed. But, to require a mandate to cover them as a form of birth control is ridiculous.

jbball92
03-26-2014, 08:34 AM
Take off birth control and plan B as long as you take off Viagra and Cialis and other dick raising medicine.

However, I feel like a lot of these religious rampages lose a lot of the facts in the fight. Most of that stuff doesn't cause abortions, it prevents the sperm from fertilizing the egg. Some change the uterine wall.

Anyway. Deny birth control and contraceptives and deny drugs for men too. Otherwise it's bull****.

I wouldnt say the government is a credible source when it comes abortions.... *cough* wade vs. roe *cough*

jeremyacox
03-26-2014, 08:39 AM
1. It's a privately owned company
2. They don't want to pay out of pocket for 4 out of 20 contraceptives in which the FDA warns it can kill the embreyo and in sense be an abortion which goes against the owners religious beliefs.
3. If this was a Muslim owned company which has same beliefs or a homosexual owned company, this would be spun completely different.

All bout perspective and not taking what the media says at face value brahs

Apeus
03-26-2014, 08:42 AM
You can get BC at Walmart for $10 a month why the hell do you need insurance to cover that?
BRB going to start complaining my multi vitamin and fish oil aren't being covered.

I'm pretty sure Walmart does not sell prescription birth control for $10 dollars without insurance.

Supernautx
03-26-2014, 08:46 AM
Deny what drugs for men? And under what grounds?

Anything that raises the chance for sexual activity. Any reasoning you want; Religious beliefs, higher risk of unwanted pregnancy, etc.


I wouldnt say the government is a credible source when it comes abortions.... *cough* wade vs. roe *cough*

If you are inferring that it should be doctors decision, then I agree. But what you said about the government can be said about medical professionals as well :D

jamesvt
03-26-2014, 08:50 AM
I'm pretty sure Walmart does not sell prescription birth control for $10 dollars without insurance.
http://i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/fusion/customer_list.pdf

PSToolman
03-26-2014, 08:55 AM
This looks to me like nothing more than an attempt to chip away at the Wall of Separation disguised as an attempt to chip away at the Affordable Care Act. For-profit companies are not religions or charities and should not be exempt from any law regulating business. You might have a case for privately held companies, but certainly no publicly traded company should be entitled to any exemption. If laws regulating your business conflict with your religion then you should not be in that business. It's that simple.

Further, if you are going to make the case that corporations are people then they should be subject to the same taxes and laws as people.

MuscleXtreme
03-26-2014, 08:58 AM
Anything that raises the chance for sexual activity. Any reasoning you want; Religious beliefs, higher risk of unwanted pregnancy, etc.




That's not what they're arguing, they are not anti-sex, they are against certain contraceptives that can cause abortion. Last I checked Viagra doesn't cause abortions.

1972girl
03-26-2014, 09:01 AM
You can get BC at Walmart for $10 a month why the hell do you need insurance to cover that?
BRB going to start complaining my multi vitamin and fish oil aren't being covered.
9. You may pay less or more than the Program price, depending on the terms of your
health plan. Prescriber permission may be required to change a 30-day prescription
to a 90-day prescription. Certain plans, including government-funded programs,
may not cover a 90-day supply.

tng83
03-26-2014, 09:04 AM
Maybe they should convince their employees not to use these products. I dont understand their argument. Dont like contraception? Don't use it. If they were faith healers could they argue against cancer or AIDS treatment? What if a gay employee got HIV from gay sex? God says that's an abomination so my insurance shouldn't have to cover your meds?

Supernautx
03-26-2014, 09:05 AM
That's not what they're arguing, they are not anti-sex, they are against certain contraceptives that can cause abortion. Last I checked Viagra doesn't cause abortions.

Maybe. Although lots of things cause abortions. Evangelical Christians seem to find funny things to pick and choose. If you're going to parade around your religious beliefs, you should follow all of them.

NeoKantian
03-26-2014, 09:06 AM
I'm pretty sure Walmart does not sell prescription birth control for $10 dollars without insurance.
Without insurance it's probably 30-50 or more, depending on the drug.

primetime32
03-26-2014, 09:07 AM
1. It's a privately owned company
2. They don't want to pay out of pocket for 4 out of 20 contraceptives in which the FDA warns it can kill the embreyo and in sense be an abortion which goes against the owners religious beliefs.
3. If this was a Muslim owned company which has same beliefs or a homosexual owned company, this would be spun completely different.

All bout perspective and not taking what the media says at face value brahs

What are talking about? You think if it was a muslim company they would be exempt? You clearly have zero legal background.

primetime32
03-26-2014, 09:11 AM
Why can't employees take their ass to the drug store and buy their own contraceptive?

Whether contraception should have been included in obamacare is not up for debate in this case. Your statement is the equivalent of saying "why can't employees take their ass to the drug store and buy their own antibioticts?"

Hobbylobby is making a completely different argument with respect to their religious beliefs. They are not looking to overturn the provision that requires contraception coverage, instead they are looking to get out of the requirement for religious reasons.

jamesvt
03-26-2014, 09:22 AM
Without insurance it's probably 30-50 or more, depending on the drug. Still $9 with or without insurance.

RIKTER
03-26-2014, 09:32 AM
They cover 16 different contraceptive drugs. They want to be exempt from 4 of the required 20 medications because they may induce abortions after conception.

^^^^^this is the part that gets conveniently left out. If there were 20 different boner pills out there and your companies ins. only covered 16 of them, this would be a non issue, let alone be considered a war on men!

CalebRM
03-26-2014, 09:34 AM
They are only denying the birth control that causes the female to abort the baby.


They DO provide birth control, around like 16 different ones actually.


They're not out to bother or offend anyone, but the media of course has turned this into this libtard campaign.

Messier_Object
03-26-2014, 09:37 AM
^^^^^this is the part that gets conveniently left out. If there were 20 different boner pills out there and your companies ins. only covered 16 of them, this would be a non issue, let alone be considered a war on men!

Any idea which 4 they are though?

Go0d_Call
03-26-2014, 09:54 AM
Abstinence is FREE birth control, just sayin!

BEATINGU
03-26-2014, 09:55 AM
I absolutely hate Obama-care and hope that Hobby Lobby gets an exemption.

I'm wondering though, can Christian Scientists (for example) refuse cancer treatments or something for their employees because they believe in praying when you're sick.

Messier_Object
03-26-2014, 09:58 AM
Absence is FREE birth control, just sayin!

I told a guy this. I said the most proven and 100% sure fire way to prevent conception is abstinence. He called me an *******. Lol

Apeus
03-26-2014, 10:06 AM
Absence is FREE birth control, just sayin!

Absence from where? Society?

Well yeah, if you remove yourself from all people there won't be anyone to have sex with.

tsbalr120
03-26-2014, 10:57 AM
Companies shouldn't be forced to provide anything.

tng83
03-26-2014, 11:10 AM
Companies shouldn't be forced to provide anything.

End result of that? Economy is down, jobs in high demand, companies choose to not provide insurance because they really don't need to be competitive, healthcare costs to taxpayers skyrocket because people have no access to insurance, Republicans have something else to whine about.

JonathanRhimes
03-26-2014, 11:17 AM
Absence is FREE birth control, just sayin!

You misspelled abstinence. And by misspelled I mean you wrote a different word.

kenonator
03-26-2014, 11:18 AM
If Hobby Lobby wins does that mean I can argue against paying taxes because of my religion?

Apeus
03-26-2014, 11:18 AM
End result of that? Economy is down, jobs in high demand, companies choose to not provide insurance because they really don't need to be competitive, healthcare costs to taxpayers skyrocket because people have no access to insurance, Republicans have something else to whine about.

Companies stop providing health insurance.

Insurance companies forced to stop charging outrageous premiums for private plans.

More people can afford and purchase insurance plans on their own.

JonathanRhimes
03-26-2014, 11:19 AM
End result of that? Economy is down, jobs in high demand, companies choose to not provide insurance because they really don't need to be competitive, healthcare costs to taxpayers skyrocket because people have no access to insurance, Republicans have something else to whine about.

One of the reasons healthcare costs are so high is because health insurance exists. Brb billing you 100k for an appendectomy and actually getting the money because you're insured...meanwhile the uninsured pay a few thousand if anything. And instead of collecting bills the hospitals just bill people with insurance more.

kenonator
03-26-2014, 11:20 AM
Companies shouldn't be forced to provide anything.

Not even paychecks!

TH3SHR3DD3R
03-26-2014, 11:22 AM
Hobby Lobby employees and sex ... not even once.

JonathanRhimes
03-26-2014, 11:22 AM
I told a guy this. I said the most proven and 100% sure fire way to prevent conception is abstinence. He called me an *******. Lol

I would rather see everyone not looking to conceive on contraception and forego any 'accidents' due to drunken haze/rape/incest/ lapse of judgment/whatever.

It makes no sense whatsoever to be against both contraception and abortion...step back and really think about it if you don't understand why I say this.

jamesvt
03-26-2014, 11:23 AM
Not even paychecks! If you agree to work for free then sure.

kenonator
03-26-2014, 11:24 AM
If you agree to work for free then sure.

I was poking fun at his ridiculous comment

JonathanRhimes
03-26-2014, 11:24 AM
Companies stop providing health insurance.

Insurance companies forced to stop charging outrageous premiums for private plans.

More people can afford and purchase insurance plans on their own.

Probably this. The weird government involvement in this made costs skyrocket. Just like college tuition skyrocketing after federal student loans without bankruptcy came into existence. Having to insure people who are terminally ill also destroys the premium prices.

tng83
03-26-2014, 11:30 AM
One of the reasons healthcare costs are so high is because health insurance exists. Brb billing you 100k for an appendectomy and actually getting the money because you're insured...meanwhile the uninsured pay a few thousand if anything. And instead of collecting bills the hospitals just bill people with insurance more.

No doubt. Ive argued before that we should be fixing healthcare costs, not insurance costs. Noone shops for a deal if your copay is the same either way? Noone cares if Walgreens is 30 bucks cheaper for a script if Walmart is 1 mile closer because the copay is still 30 bucks. Same with auto repairs. Toms auto body is half the cost of All Star Chevrolet but fuk it, Allstate is paying for it.

Messier_Object
03-26-2014, 11:31 AM
I would rather see everyone not looking to conceive on contraception and forego any 'accidents' due to drunken haze/rape/incest/ lapse of judgment/whatever.

It makes no sense whatsoever to be against both contraception and abortion...step back and really think about it if you don't understand why I say this.

I'm pro contraception if used prior to conception and anti abortion.

tsbalr120
03-26-2014, 11:34 AM
I was poking fun at his ridiculous comment

What was ridiculous about it?

Employment is a voluntary contract. Companies offer different perks to attract different level of employees. The idea of forcing employers to offer health insurance is retarded. Wait to see how many employees get forced to part time when the employer mandate comes around.

Apeus
03-26-2014, 11:34 AM
I'm pro contraception if used prior to conception and anti abortion.

If you're anti-abortion, don't get an abortion.

It's pretty simple.

Don't try to ban it though and end the positive social and economic effects it's had since it was legalized.

Messier_Object
03-26-2014, 11:55 AM
If you're anti-abortion, don't get an abortion.

It's pretty simple.

Don't try to ban it though and end the positive social and economic effects it's had since it was legalized.

Because the only choice is abortion or unwanted child living in a horrible situation. Not like there's adoption or fostering families that would love a child.

MMAnLift
03-26-2014, 12:00 PM
Because the only choice is abortion or unwanted child living in a horrible situation. Not like there's adoption or fostering families that would love a child.

I forgot that all children are adopted and the foster system isn't in ruins. Oh wait

Messier_Object
03-26-2014, 12:03 PM
I forgot that all children are adopted and the foster system isn't in ruins. Oh wait

We adopted our son and getting ready to foster another. It's not the families that are the problem, but the red tape.

It's much easier to just murder someone than deal with any consequences.

MMAnLift
03-26-2014, 12:14 PM
It's much easier to just murder someone than deal with any consequences.

Yet your sig promotes a father murdering his own child

Supernautx
03-26-2014, 12:15 PM
We adopted our son and getting ready to foster another. It's not the families that are the problem, but the red tape.

It's much easier to just murder someone than deal with any consequences.

Not all women find it such an easy decision to make.

goirish3
03-26-2014, 12:20 PM
How many faith based businesses are there out there that dont allow hospitalization? Saying religious organizations would peace meal is a joke. If you are part of a business that is ran by a radical religion that you dont follow perhaps you should find another job. They shouldnt be forced to go against their principals so that you can abort a kid.

PSToolman
03-26-2014, 12:38 PM
How many faith based businesses are there out there that dont allow hospitalization? Saying religious organizations would peace meal is a joke. If you are part of a business that is ran by a radical religion that you dont follow perhaps you should find another job. They shouldnt be forced to go against their principals so that you can abort a kid.

what business is it of theirs? we've set a minimum standard for what should be covered under health care in the United States. they have the same choice anyone else has if there's a law they don't agree with.

zakatak333
03-26-2014, 02:27 PM
IMO aside from any religious arguments...

employers/insurers should be legally mandated to provide coverage for medications, surgeries and other treatments that are MEDICALLY NECESSARY for survival and well being

however, they should not be mandated to cover the costs of elective medicine such as contraceptives



on a gender equality issue, if the government is going to compel employers/insurers to cover contraceptive medication for females then they better also compel employers/insurers to cover vasectomy operations and erectile dysfunction medication for males

RIKTER
03-26-2014, 04:25 PM
Almost certain starting pay at HL is $14 an hour, almost double min wage. What if they offered new employees who wished to be covered by the 4 birth controls in question only $8 bucks an hour instead of their standard $14 and those who wish to be covered by the other 16 the standard $14 an hour....problem solved.

PS, if this wasnt a "christian" business that offered their starting employees $14 an hour, you wouldnt have read it hear first...ala Gap.

War Machine
03-26-2014, 04:33 PM
Why can't employees take their ass to the drug store and buy their own contraceptive?


They cover 16 different contraceptive drugs. They want to be exempt from 4 of the required 20 medications because they may induce abortions after conception.

These

It's such a non issue I see the liberal slant laughable.

RIKTER
03-26-2014, 04:39 PM
These

It's such a non issue I see the liberal slant laughable.

Cant base an upcoming election on, a war on woman without, well ya know....I would bet Hillary etc hopes HL wins the court case, helps her.

Ge_Tech
03-26-2014, 05:59 PM
This looks to me like nothing more than an attempt to chip away at the Wall of Separation disguised as an attempt to chip away at the Affordable Care Act. For-profit companies are not religions or charities and should not be exempt from any law regulating business. You might have a case for privately held companies, but certainly no publicly traded company should be entitled to any exemption. If laws regulating your business conflict with your religion then you should not be in that business. It's that simple.

Further, if you are going to make the case that corporations are people then they should be subject to the same taxes and laws as people.

This is exactly what it is. Unfortunately, it appears that the Supreme Court is going to rule in their favor. I'm afraid it will open the door to all kinds of discrimination based on religious beliefs.

ONtop888
03-26-2014, 08:51 PM
Take off birth control and plan B as long as you take off Viagra and Cialis and other dick raising medicine.

However, I feel like a lot of these religious rampages lose a lot of the facts in the fight. Most of that stuff doesn't cause abortions, it prevents the sperm from fertilizing the egg. Some change the uterine wall.

Anyway. Deny birth control and contraceptives and deny drugs for men too. Otherwise it's bull****.

Wtf? There is no male birth control to deny for men because misandrist retards won't let men have birth control.

Hobby lobby merely does not want to cover 4 out of the 20 available types of birth control because those 4 may be abortifacients.

And furthermore this company has no moral qualms with dick raising drugs because they don't carry a risk to induce abortion.

Logic,
Your post has none.