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View Full Version : where does Joakim Noah rank?



HayZues Christi
02-13-2014, 09:17 PM
Is he a top 10 player?

Not only does he actually guard 1-5 (sorry lebron) but also leads his team in assist. Single handedly giving bulls home court.

L0lJ0ker3
02-13-2014, 09:24 PM
DPOY

top 5 center in the game today

Annnnnnnd he's been healthy

nvrstopworking
02-13-2014, 09:31 PM
DPOY

top 5 center in the game today

Annnnnnnd he's been healthy

This. ^^^

Except I'd say top 3 C (I have him #1 but that's just me).

Bulls would be tanking for Parker/Wiggins without him.

4567081110
02-13-2014, 09:35 PM
Should be DPOY srs

sorry hibbert, your time is coming, but noah's been long overdue

HayZues Christi
02-13-2014, 09:45 PM
DPOY

top 5 center in the game today

Annnnnnnd he's been healthy

top 5¿¿

What centre's are better??

Backus21
02-13-2014, 09:54 PM
This. ^^^

Except I'd say top 3 C (I have him #1 but that's just me).

Bulls would be tanking for Parker/Wiggins without him.

You're not alone. All around game and leadership I have Noah as my best C

broboma2012
02-13-2014, 10:01 PM
the rondo of centers. i love his game. 14 13 and 7 tonight. nuts. he has been playing out of his mind

snakehips31
02-13-2014, 11:56 PM
He ranks somewhere between a snake and a mongoose.

SighGR
02-14-2014, 12:22 AM
Should be DPOY srs

sorry hibbert, your time is coming, but noah's been long overdue
No one gets to say overdue, when Duncan has never won it

gswarrior510
02-14-2014, 12:25 AM
No player who scores 11 ppg on 52% TS can be a top 10 player.. He's a great defender and a hustle guy. He also is a good passer, soooo I'm guessing 3rd best Center and liiike top 30 player. (Marc, Dwight, Noah)

nvrstopworking
02-14-2014, 12:43 AM
I'll admit one thing... if this isn't a fluke and D12 has really figured out how to shoot FTs (about 70% over his past 6 games) then that would likely make him #1.

I can't put anyone else above Noah though (even Marc G.).

wickedman
02-14-2014, 12:54 AM
But Rose needs more help mane.

HayZues Christi
02-14-2014, 10:14 AM
No player who scores 11 ppg on 52% TS can be a top 10 player.. He's a great defender and a hustle guy. He also is a good passer, soooo I'm guessing 3rd best Center and liiike top 30 player. (Marc, Dwight, Noah)

14 ppg last 2 months( slow start coming off injury/played 0 preseason)
best defender in the league.
Best passing big man in league.

at least top 15.


But Rose needs more help mane.

In all fairness, Rose has never been healthy with a Noah like this. Even last time rose played(3 fuking years ago) Noah missed half that season.

MCrow
02-14-2014, 10:18 AM
Not a top 10 player but top 2-3 defender for sure. Overall game I'd say probably around the same level as Pekovic, though they are pretty much opposites game wise.

HayZues Christi
02-14-2014, 10:24 AM
Not a top 10 player but top 2-3 defender for sure. Overall game I'd say probably around the same level as Pekovic, though they are pretty much opposites game wise.

bro...

I love pekuille O'neal, but you are out your mind if you think he is near Noahs level.

rootcon
02-14-2014, 10:29 AM
What about Drummond in the top 5? Guy is a beast, 13ppg, 13 boards, ~60% fg... though foul shooting is 40%

HayZues Christi
02-14-2014, 10:33 AM
What about Drummond in the top 5? Guy is a beast, 13ppg, 13 boards, ~60% fg... though foul shooting is 40%

drummons is a beast.

but on a losing team, isn't even close to the play maker or defender.

MCrow
02-14-2014, 10:37 AM
bro...

I love pekuille O'neal, but you are out your mind if you think he is near Noahs level.

I think overall they are pretty close, Noah is by far the better defender but Pek is by far the better scorer. If I had to pick one I'd probably go with Noah because the Wolves need a defender but he's not much of a scorer. They are pretty hard to compare as Pek is a big bruising type where as Noah is more the quickness and length type. Both are probably among the best in their archetype. So, it depends on what you value more, the long, quicker defender or the space eating bruiser with more scoring ability.

If Noah had more offensive game there would be no question who is better.

HayZues Christi
02-14-2014, 11:20 AM
I think overall they are pretty close, Noah is by far the better defender but Pek is by far the better scorer. If I had to pick one I'd probably go with Noah because the Wolves need a defender but he's not much of a scorer. They are pretty hard to compare as Pek is a big bruising type where as Noah is more the quickness and length type. Both are probably among the best in their archetype. So, it depends on what you value more, the long, quicker defender or the space eating bruiser with more scoring ability.

If Noah had more offensive game there would be no question who is better.

noah accounts for 26 ppg

pek 19 ppg

BrianDobson
02-14-2014, 11:38 AM
blue collar...hard hat, lunch bucket. He's a high motor guy

MCrow
02-14-2014, 11:40 AM
noah accounts for 26 ppg

pek 19 ppg

Oh you can pull all sorts of stats if you like but mostly they point that they pretty equal:

Wins added= about the same
Value added=about the same
PER= Pekovic is better
TS%= Pekovic is better

Noah is by statics a better passer and defender, Pekovic by stats is a better scorer and turnes the ball over less. By stats Noah may look like the better rebounder as well but he's not competing with Kevin Love for those rebounds.

The fact is, most stats that measure overall value or efficiency show that while they may have very different games they have a pretty similar value to their teams.

HayZues Christi
02-14-2014, 11:47 AM
Oh you can pull all sorts of stats if you like but mostly they point that they pretty equal:

Wins added= about the same
Value added=about the same
PER= Pekovic is better
TS%= Pekovic is better

Noah is by statics a better passer and defender, Pekovic by stats is a better scorer and turnes the ball over less. By stats Noah may look like the better rebounder as well but he's not competing with Kevin Love for those rebounds.

The fact is, most stats that measure overall value or efficiency show that while they may have very different games they have a pretty similar value to their teams.


ill take your word for it... I am not a big sabermetrics guy.



ill go beyond that. Noah is the absolute heart of a team that solely wins games with heart. cliché and immeasurable I know, but if you watch bulls games, it is undeniable.

MCrow
02-14-2014, 12:24 PM
So far the Wolves are 2-7 without Pek (.222) and 23-21 (.527) with him.

Even with KLove the team is much worse without Pekovic.

BullBoy8
02-14-2014, 03:20 PM
So far the Wolves are 2-7 without Pek (.222) and 23-21 (.527) with him.

Even with KLove the team is much worse without Pekovic.

How many of those 7 losses are without Love and Martin too though?

sdballer5588
02-14-2014, 03:21 PM
He's not top 10. 2nd/3rd best defensive center.

MCrow
02-14-2014, 03:23 PM
How many of those 7 losses are without Love and Martin too though?

I think Love missed one game, Martin missed one game as well I think but a different one than Love. Still, you can tell the Wolves are different team without him on the court.

Mrs Grudge
02-14-2014, 03:24 PM
Noah is not close to being a top ten guy.

As for centers, Davis and Howard are better than him, M Gasol when healthy is too.

Great player none the less.

broboma2012
02-14-2014, 05:42 PM
Overall game I'd say probably around the same level as Pekovic, though they are pretty much opposites game wise.

yikes, you have a pension for some of the most homerish posts. it doesn't work how like how you are comparing them btw. pek may be a better scorer but his barely more valuable on offensive side. noah facilitates faaaaar more effectively and can give you 20 pt games fairly regularly. on the defensive end it is not even close.

broboma2012
02-14-2014, 05:47 PM
i can pretty confidently say that pek has never played at the level that noah has been playing at for the last 2 months

broboma2012
02-14-2014, 05:48 PM
He's not top 10. 2nd/3rd best defensive center.

2nd or 3rd best center period

4567081110
02-14-2014, 05:50 PM
No one gets to say overdue, when Duncan has never won it

he's got 2 MVPs, i think that's fair compensation.

HayZues Christi
03-08-2014, 04:27 PM
I think my argument is gaining some traction.

niknguyen
03-08-2014, 06:03 PM
Ive been saying he's a top 3 center. At the center position right now, its all about preference in the top 3. I have dwight and noah as my top 2. If DH12 can ever shoot ft's consistently, das it mane!

IndianBrah92
03-08-2014, 06:05 PM
very underrated. definitely my fav center. hope he gets DPY

brb_ballin
03-08-2014, 06:08 PM
this season I would say he's absolutely been a top 10 player.

gswarrior510
03-08-2014, 06:25 PM
damn..13/11/7 post all-star break with best defense in the league..

gaining some traction indeed. Might just have to be top 10

HayZues Christi
03-09-2014, 03:47 PM
Bump for 20/12/7/5 game against heat.

RogerSterling
03-09-2014, 05:31 PM
Bump for 20/12/7/5 game against heat.

just another day at the office for GOATkim, not even that psyched to see him put up a line like that anymore.

sdballer5588
03-09-2014, 05:33 PM
He sure gets a lot of credit when Augustin puts up 22 off the bench and buckets throws upa huge double double.

I said it ebfore I'll say it again. The bulls sans rose are a TEAM. Not an individual.


Noah embodies team.

BullBoy8
03-09-2014, 05:56 PM
He sure gets a lot of credit when Augustin puts up 22 off the bench and buckets throws upa huge double double.

I said it ebfore I'll say it again. The bulls sans rose are a TEAM. Not an individual.


Noah embodies team.

Do you think that with Lebron too? That he doesnt embody team, but individual

sdballer5588
03-09-2014, 06:01 PM
Do you think that with Lebron too? That he doesnt embody team, but individual

Noah is a good roleplayer who can step up and play well. 3rd option on a contender.

LeBron is the face of your franchise.


Don't go full retard right now. Joakim Noah will never be the face of ANY franchise. Derrick Rose is the bulls. Noah is a great teammate and roleplayer, he will NEVER be a superstar, he will NEVER draw max money.

Comparing him to Dwight is honestly basketball blasphemy.

nvrstopworking
03-09-2014, 06:13 PM
Noah is a good roleplayer who can step up and play well. 3rd option on a contender.

LeBron is the face of your franchise.


Don't go full retard right now. Joakim Noah will never be the face of ANY franchise. Derrick Rose is the bulls. Noah is a great teammate and roleplayer, he will NEVER be a superstar, he will NEVER draw max money.

Comparing him to Dwight is honestly basketball blasphemy.

Lulz. You could easily say the same thing about Rondo..... but would you? They actually play the game the same way IMO.

BOTH of those guys deserve max money.

The media's retarded fascination with point scorers doesn't lend itself to Noah getting tons of recognition... but make no mistake... the Bulls would be CHIT without him. Lottery team without a doubt.

BullBoy8
03-09-2014, 06:33 PM
Noah is a good roleplayer who can step up and play well. 3rd option on a contender.

LeBron is the face of your franchise.


Don't go full retard right now. Joakim Noah will never be the face of ANY franchise. Derrick Rose is the bulls. Noah is a great teammate and roleplayer, he will NEVER be a superstar, he will NEVER draw max money.

Comparing him to Dwight is honestly basketball blasphemy.

I took your above post as the Bulls are better without Rose, and that they play like a (better) team without him vs with him.

sdballer5588
03-09-2014, 06:38 PM
Lulz. You could easily say the same thing about Rondo..... but would you? They actually play the game the same way IMO.

BOTH of those guys deserve max money.

The media's retarded fascination with point scorers doesn't lend itself to Noah getting tons of recognition... but make no mistake... the Bulls would be CHIT without him. Lottery team without a doubt.

Neither of them will draw max. Rondo leads the league in an actual stat. Noah leads the league in ..... "heart". Rondo lead a REAL CONTENDER to game 7 vs the heat averaging REAL SUPERSTAR NUMBERS. Noah has NEVER DONE THAT. EVER.

Also how the **** can you say what they'd be without him? The celtics with rondo - game 7 vs the heat within a call of the finals with him as their obvious best player. Celtics without Rondo, 1st round exit vs THE KNICKS.

Lol @ even TRYING to argue that Noah is more important than Rose. With Rose, back to back 1 seed best team in the NBA. Without Rose 6 seed. IN A TERRIBLE CONFERENCE


I took your above post as the Bulls are better without Rose, and that they play like a (better) team without him vs with him.

No way. Rose MADE those teams get over the top. What the bulls are right now is a REAL SCORER and superstar away. Aka derrick Rose.

broboma2012
03-09-2014, 06:43 PM
He sure gets a lot of credit when Augustin puts up 22 off the bench and buckets throws upa huge double double.

I said it ebfore I'll say it again. The bulls sans rose are a TEAM. Not an individual.


Noah embodies team.

right. and he is a fantastic player and was the reason why we won. no other player contributed more to this victory. what you said applies to about every single basketball player. after all it is a team sport. good of you to notice that.

BullBoy8
03-09-2014, 06:46 PM
No way. Rose MADE those teams get over the top. What the bulls are right now is a REAL SCORER and superstar away. Aka derrick Rose.

Alright. I was about to say, I thought you have always said Rose was legit. We were talking about the Rondo Rose match ups and ish. After the win today, I am in a state of Bulls against the world, and everyone is out to get us, aka I am in a delusional state at the moment. But we are GOATing right now, and are gonna hopefully get the Heat ECFs.

broboma2012
03-09-2014, 06:48 PM
lebron does not lead the league in any stat this year. therefore he is a role player.


not saying that noah is a superstar but this logic. my god.

sdballer5588
03-09-2014, 06:49 PM
Alright. I was about to say, I thought you have always said Rose was legit. We were talking about the Rondo Rose match ups and ish. After the win today, I am in a state of Bulls against the world, and everyone is out to get us, aka I am in a delusional state at the moment. But we are GOATing right now, and are gonna hopefully get the Heat ECFs.

Rose and Rondo are my 2 favorite players by a wide margin. Every bulls fan is delusional right now. Which is why I ask you to do the max test.


NO ONE will pay Noah max money. To nvrstpworking, I guarantee RONDO draws more money as a FA on the open market than Noah. Guaranteed.

sdballer5588
03-09-2014, 06:50 PM
lebron does not lead the league in any stat this year. therefore he is a role player.


not saying that noah is a superstar but this logic. my god.

Strong context bro. rofl, legit never seen you grasp SO HARD at any straw you can.

BullBoy8
03-09-2014, 06:59 PM
Rose and Rondo are my 2 favorite players by a wide margin. Every bulls fan is delusional right now. Which is why I ask you to do the max test.


NO ONE will pay Noah max money. To nvrstpworking, I guarantee RONDO draws more money as a FA on the open market than Noah. Guaranteed.

WELLLLL, if Hibbert is a max player, then yes Noah is. But Hibbert is a joke to me. I will say Noah is a max player THIS year. I would say he can be a 2nd option on a title team. With Rose back, and bring Mirotic over along with a 3 and D wing, and 4th big that can play 8 minutes off the bench. I would say that team could win a title and Noah would be 2nd option. A 2nd as in the 2nd ball handler the Bulls have always needed and can run the offense through along with Rose. Not a conventional 2nd like Wade where he can go off for 30. But a 2nd guy to run the team through other than Rose, which we have yet to have until now.

sdballer5588
03-09-2014, 07:04 PM
WELLLLL, if Hibbert is a max player, then yes Noah is. But Hibbert is a joke to me. I will say Noah is a max player THIS year. I would say he can be a 2nd option on a title team. With Rose back, and bring Mirotic over along with a 3 and D wing, and 4th big that can play 8 minutes off the bench. I would say that team could win a title and Noah would be 2nd option. A 2nd as in the 2nd ball handler the Bulls have always needed and can run the offense through along with Rose. Not a conventional 2nd like Wade where he can go off for 30. But a 2nd guy to run the team through other than Rose, which we have yet to have until now.

Hibbert is not making max(not the REAL max, he's making the most he CAN though). Nor should he. He is also so retardedly overrated. He makes ... 14 mill a year? Dwight makes 20.

The bulls best option is to bring in Melo SRS. Rose will not have such insane pressure to be "the guy" with Melo being there to ease the pressure of his reintroduction, and Noah will always be that glue guy who works hard does the dirty work etc etc.

broboma2012
03-09-2014, 07:10 PM
WELLLLL, if Hibbert is a max player, then yes Noah is. But Hibbert is a joke to me. I will say Noah is a max player THIS year. I would say he can be a 2nd option on a title team. With Rose back, and bring Mirotic over along with a 3 and D wing, and 4th big that can play 8 minutes off the bench. I would say that team could win a title and Noah would be 2nd option. A 2nd as in the 2nd ball handler the Bulls have always needed and can run the offense through along with Rose. Not a conventional 2nd like Wade where he can go off for 30. But a 2nd guy to run the team through other than Rose, which we have yet to have until now.

we need a second scorer. noah could still be the 2nd best player on a championship team but not the second option. we are in trouble if noah is our second option next year. If melo comes and we could manage to keep butler and taj... we would be serious contenders. I hope butler takes that next step offensively.

BullBoy8
03-09-2014, 07:11 PM
Hibbert is not making max(not the REAL max, he's making the most he CAN though). Nor should he. He is also so retardedly overrated. He makes ... 14 mill a year? Dwight makes 20.

The bulls best option is to bring in Melo SRS. Rose will not have such insane pressure to be "the guy" with Melo being there to ease the pressure of his reintroduction, and Noah will always be that glue guy who works hard does the dirty work etc etc.

I agree with all that. I just dont want to gut the team for Melo. We would be contenders without him, but with him, if we can keep taj, jimmy, and Noah. That is pretty close to a guaranteed title, assuming everyone stays healthy. A trade like Snell Boozer and 4 1st rounders, and I dont see why the Knicks wouldnt do that. They would still suck next year to tank for a top pick, plus can use the bulls 1sts they gave up to build a team around a star they bring in.


Edit: Broboma the wizard.

If we have slashers and 3 shooters that are actually good, like Butler good (on slashing) and Dunleavy/DJ good (on 3s), we wouldnt really need a second scorer. But ya, I agree with you too.

nvrstopworking
03-09-2014, 07:14 PM
Rose and Rondo are my 2 favorite players by a wide margin. Every bulls fan is delusional right now. Which is why I ask you to do the max test.


NO ONE will pay Noah max money. To nvrstpworking, I guarantee RONDO draws more money as a FA on the open market than Noah. Guaranteed.

Ahhhh..... that explains it.

"Rose-colored glasses" indeed.

If Tyson fukking Chandler could get the max you bet your ass that Noah could. Then again, a lot of GMs are straight up retarded so it wouldn't surprise me if guys like him and Rondo were underappreciated.

These guys make your team better. That fact isn't disputable. If you don't value their contributions on the floor then you really don't have any place watching basketball.

sdballer5588
03-09-2014, 07:15 PM
I agree with all that. I just dont want to gut the team for Melo. We would be contenders without him, but with him, if we can keep taj, jimmy, and Noah. That is pretty close to a guaranteed title, assuming everyone stays healthy. A trade like Snell Boozer and 4 1st rounders, and I dont see why the Knicks wouldnt do that. They would still suck next year to tank for a top pick, plus can use the bulls 1sts they gave up to build a team around a star they bring in.


Edit: Broboma the wizard.

If we have slashers and 3 shooters that are actually good, like Butler good (on slashing) and Dunleavy/DJ good (on 3s), we wouldnt really need a second scorer. But ya, I agree with you too.

I hate Carlos Boozer. Srs. At least in that HORRIBLE contract.

sdballer5588
03-09-2014, 07:16 PM
Ahhhh..... that explains it.

"Rose-colored glasses" indeed.

If Tyson fukking Chandler could get the max you bet your ass that Noah could. Then again, a lot of GMs are straight up retarded so it wouldn't surprise me if guys like him and Rondo were underappreciated.

These guys make your team better. That fact isn't disputable. If you don't value their contributions on the floor then you really don't have any place watching basketball.

Tyson Chandler plays for the dumbest FO in the league.

Tyson also makes NOWHERE NEAR what Dwight makes so why do you guys keep saying this ****. He makes 13 million a year. Dwight makes ****ING TWENTY MILLION A YEAR.

I value Noah and Rondo for what they are. The best "role player" type guys for their position. Rondo needs a DEEP ASS TEAM behind him to be the best player on a contender (which he had. He had 3 great players at the end of their careers as role players while he was the guy) that only works because he is a PG.

You could build around Rondo easier than you could around Noah, because he has a MUCH MORE direct impact on teammates success. Rondo is averaging 11 apg to nobodies.

You simply can't do that with Noah. It's not an opinion, it's fact. Rondo DID those things as "the guy" Noah will not. I guarantee it.

ShweezyBTFO
03-09-2014, 07:16 PM
gasol >>>>>>>>>>



and that means a lot coming from me given my documented hatred of spanish athletes.

broboma2012
03-09-2014, 07:22 PM
ignoring the massive impact that noah has over rondo defensively. if noah is a 'role player' this year then so has rondo been the majority of his career.

sdballer5588
03-09-2014, 07:30 PM
ignoring the massive impact that noah has over rondo defensively. if noah is a 'role player' this year then so has rondo been the majority of his career.

Rondo has a ring doe. 1>0

rondo 2x 1st team all D 2x 2nd team all D

Noah 1 time 1st 1 time 2nd

4>2

ShweezyBTFO
03-09-2014, 07:32 PM
Rondo has a ring doe. 1>0

rondo 2x 1st team all D 2x 2nd team all D

Noah 1 time 1st 1 time 2nd

4>2

RIP broboma2012(sic)

RogerSterling
03-09-2014, 07:53 PM
lol sdballer

bpatel82
03-09-2014, 08:46 PM
RED ALERT

lol..

HayZues Christi
03-09-2014, 08:57 PM
Rondo has a ring doe. 1>0

rondo 2x 1st team all D 2x 2nd team all D

Noah 1 time 1st 1 time 2nd

4>2

if there was a re Draft of every nba player right now, noah goes before rondo.

sdballer5588
03-09-2014, 09:53 PM
if there was a re Draft of every nba player right now, noah goes before rondo.

Talk about prisoner of the moment things to say coupled with a hilarious hypothetical. Sure thing. I'd probably take a peaking center in perfect health over a guy who noticeably doesn't care much coming off an ACL tear.

Water is also wet.

HayZues Christi
03-09-2014, 09:57 PM
Talk about prisoner of the moment things to say coupled with a hilarious hypothetical. Sure thing. I'd probably take a peaking center in perfect health over a guy who noticeably doesn't care much coming off an ACL tear.

Water is also wet.

or you prefer your argument using only the past...


if they retired tomorrow, rondo has had the better career. Moving forward, I expect more from Noah.

ShweezyBTFO
03-09-2014, 10:03 PM
lol..

TFW reds get more respect on the misc than manan daves.



or you prefer your argument using only the past...


if they retired tomorrow, rondo has had the better career. Moving forward, I expect more from Noah.

Sorry but we need to see how Noah responds to a torn ACL before making any sort of comparisons.



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