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kinesthetic1234
11-02-2013, 05:22 PM
So I am out of date on nutrition. Last time I was really into it was 5 years ago, and I'm sure "If It Fits Your Macro" approach was around then, but certainly not like it is now. I am buying into it so far. I look forward to growing some muscle here. I realize now I spent most of my time just sculpting, due to calorie deficits; with the exception of one time. It was the biggest and strongest I was ever too, but my fat was at like 10 or 11% and I want to stay where I am now 8 or 9%.

So I have questions and want to learn more.

1. Take an individual that does not work out and eats anything they want. They maintain like 16 or 17% fat. Another person has the same plan, but they maintain 8 or 9 % naturally. One would say these two people have different metabolisms, one slower then the other. So my question is how does one's metabolic rate relate to simply working from macro's.

If someone is a hard gainer, they could easily maintain 10 - 20% more then their TDEE without putting fat on, but if not, if they have a slower metabolism then they will put more fat on by following that plan.... right? There's no way around that.

2. I'm the guy that would be at 16 or 17% naturally. If I want to stay around 8 or 9%, I will have to cycle surplus/deficit's hu???? If so for what periods 2 weeks back and forth maybe?

3. Lastly, concerns about sugar, simple carbs, eating carbs at night etc etc ...... they do have some relevance; however, it's a distant second to paying attention to macro's ..... right?

Any info would be appreciated.

Also, I am using the IIFYM calculator. I just try it by calculating activity level and my TDEE is fricken 4540 cal for today - I am at like 3300 now, which is above the TDEE any other method gives me - hmmmmm .... are there better ways of calculating?

IronAgony
11-02-2013, 07:29 PM
The calculators are estimates, remember that. With that being said, I would use the method outlined by Emma-Leigh in the nutrition sticky on calculating TDEE and macros. It should give you a more accurate estimate. Also, make sure to be honest about your activity level.

cls91
11-02-2013, 08:02 PM
1. The 'hard-gainer' will have his metabolic rate accounted for in his TDEE. TDEE = BMR * Activity factor...your question is talking about 2 people with very different BMR's, but when it comes down to it, its factored into their individual TDEE. (so if he is eating 10-20% above TDEE, he will inevitably gain)

2. Calories in vs. calories out. If you want to stay at 8-9%, you have to make sure you are never in a surplus (eating more than TDEE). As you get lower bf, it can be trickier, but your energy balance (cal in vs. cal out) will ultimately decide weight change.

3. Yes.


Based on your best estimates/calculators, choose a TDEE. Eat at your desired surplus for a few weeks, monitoring your weight (keeping in mind water retention fluctuations in the first week or two). Keep adjusting your intake until you know your true TDEE and are eating to reach your weight gain goals

AlwaysTryin
11-02-2013, 08:06 PM
No such thing as a hardgainer OP

Renegadegod
11-02-2013, 08:24 PM
Nutrient timing has no effect to body composition. However, some people train more efficiently on a full stomach than fasted state.

The caloric calculators should give you a ball park estimate. I personally record how much kcals I eat and weight myself weekly; tampering down or increase the kcals depending if I'm cutting or bulking.

InItForFitness
11-02-2013, 08:31 PM
Nutrient timing has no affect to body composition.

I wouldn't take it that far.

kinesthetic1234
11-02-2013, 08:55 PM
k so here are my numbers for the day, and proudly this includes only 1.5 servings of Muscle milk - no other supplement's aside from Animal Pack and Amino's ..... I think its pretty good, but maybe to high in fat - I am thinking replace some of those cals with carbs cals instead + Sodium is still a bit high I think......

TDEE is 3000 ....... and I know my cals for today is still a bit (not even 5%) low but man this is a big step for me....lol .... recovering cutter ...lol

(Cal - 3,122) (Carb - 230) (Fat - 151) (Pro - 222) (Sod - 5,009) (Sugar - 69)

InItForFitness
11-02-2013, 09:02 PM
Everything looks good.
Remember as long as you're meeting minimums for protein /fat than they can go as high as you'd like within your caloric target.
If you want to drop some fat for carbs than feel free to do so, but they are fine as is.

Renegadegod
11-02-2013, 09:26 PM
I wouldn't take it that far.

Poor grammar/10. I stand corrected, but to the layman, it shouldn't be at the top of the hierarchy of things to worry about.

kinesthetic1234
11-03-2013, 04:08 PM
Another question from another angle. Want to keep asking question and learn learn learn! If I eat 140 grams of fat in a day, but still in a 10% deficit - I wont gain any fat????

InItForFitness
11-03-2013, 04:10 PM
Another question from another angle. Want to keep asking question and learn learn learn! If I eat 140 grams of fat in a day, but still in a 10% deficit - I wont gain any fat????

Correct.
Fat =/= Fat.
It's a commonly misunderstood aspect of nutrition.

cls91
11-03-2013, 04:17 PM
Correct.
Fat =/= Fat.
It's a commonly misunderstood aspect of nutrition.


Its unfortunate that such a tasty nutrient got stuck with that name.

Domicron
11-03-2013, 04:17 PM
Correct.
Fat =/= Fat.
It's a commonly misunderstood aspect of nutrition.

that not 100% true either. depending on fitness level and activity, isn't it possible to lose muscle, gain fat, and lose weight all at the same time?

i mean, the answer to OP's question is 'yes,' i just wanted to go out of my way to say that you're (kind of) wrong

kinesthetic1234
11-03-2013, 04:21 PM
Correct.
Fat =/= Fat.
It's a commonly misunderstood aspect of nutrition.

Ah yes of course!! Calories are but a number given to units of energy - therefore, it doesn't matter from where the energy comes. That is, any consideration pales in comparison to surplus/deficit focus.

Domicron
11-03-2013, 04:25 PM
Ah yes of course!! Calories are but a number given to units of energy - therefore, it doesn't matter from where the energy comes. That is, any consideration pales in comparison to surplus/deficit.

keep in mind calories in/calories out or iifym or whatever you call it only refers to body composition. eating too much sugar, fish with high mercury, artificial transfats, or even just a lack of micronutrients etc can lead to health issues or problems. your best bet is to try for a diet with few processed food and mostly whole foods.

InItForFitness
11-03-2013, 04:39 PM
that not 100% true either. depending on fitness level and activity, isn't it possible to lose muscle, gain fat, and lose weight all at the same time?

i mean, the answer to OP's question is 'yes,' i just wanted to go out of my way to say that you're (kind of) wrong

Not even mad/10
Respect.

kinesthetic1234
11-03-2013, 06:27 PM
Not even mad/10
Respect.

Two more questions.

1. I have a riddle: 3 weeks ago I got down to about 8% BF, and there it stayed even though I was maintaining a massive deficit. 1500 below TDEE. This must have occurred because my body basically decided that for my activity level I was starving my self, and therefore, began to switch into a survival mode; wherein which, it began to store every once of fat I took in ........ Is this the case???????

2. And what of this carbs turning to fat concept if one takes them in and goes to sleep???? True? False? Depends?

cumminslifter
11-03-2013, 06:32 PM
Two more questions.

1. I have a riddle: 3 weeks ago I got down to about 8% BF, and there it stayed even though I was maintaining a massive deficit. 1500 below TDEE. This must have occurred because my body basically decided that for my activity level I was starving my self, and therefore, began to switch into a survival mode; wherein which, it began to store every once of fat I took in ........ Is this the case???????

2. And what of this carbs turning to fat concept if one takes them in and goes to sleep???? True? False? Depends?
1. basically, your metabolism slowed
2. broscience, i eat sugary cereal and candy bars everynight right before i go to bed. and consume around 200g carb total within 3 hours of bed

APipeDream
11-03-2013, 06:38 PM
Another question from another angle. Want to keep asking question and learn learn learn! If I eat 140 grams of fat in a day, but still in a 10% deficit - I wont gain any fat????

True. Just some notes for your brain (taken from [url]http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/how-we-get-fat.html):

- Excess dietary fat is directly stored as fat
- Excess dietary carbs increases carb oxidation, impairing fat oxidation; more of your daily fat intake is stored as fat
- Excess dietary protein increases protein oxidation, impairing fat oxidation; more of your daily fat intake is stored as fat

I would venture to say that these fat gains, while bulking, are obvious and marginal when done "correctly" though (clean bulking).

kinesthetic1234
11-03-2013, 06:43 PM
1. basically, your metabolism slowed
2. broscience, i eat sugary cereal and candy bars everynight right before i go to bed. and consume around 200g carb total within 3 hours of bed

OK on 1, but I'm not sure on 2. (not saying your wrong)
Using yourself as an example isn't enough for me because I don't know if your the type that can naturally do that without gaining. I have seen many dudes that can do that without working out. Like if I do nothing and just eat, I always stay around 16 - 18% bf. Then again, this may only reflect that fact that I was always eating above my TDEE. This line of reasoning is new to me as indicated by my thread title. duh ... so it appears as though my mind is still trying to let go of it's conditioned line of reasoning = falsity. This helps though so be patient please guys. LOL

cumminslifter
11-03-2013, 07:19 PM
OK on 1, but I'm not sure on 2. (not saying your wrong)
Using yourself as an example isn't enough for me because I don't know if your the type that can naturally do that without gaining. I have seen many dudes that can do that without working out. Like if I do nothing and just eat, I always stay around 16 - 18% bf. Then again, this may only reflect that fact that I was always eating above my TDEE. This line of reasoning is new to me as indicated by my thread title. duh ... so it appears as though my mind is still trying to let go of it's conditioned line of reasoning = falsity. This helps though so be patient please guys. LOLim not just saying based off of me, it is fact that you can eat as late as you want, please do some research on current information

kinesthetic1234
11-03-2013, 07:30 PM
im not just saying based off of me, it is fact that you can eat as late as you want, please do some research on current information

Well, I'll certainly find out for myself. For as much lifting as I have done in my life (on and of), I have never done so eating in a surplus. Standing here now I cant believe it's true bu it is. I did come close one time, but I was more like meeting my TDEE looking back, and it was the biggest strongest I ever was. So now I will gain experience with this. 3200 calories today, 3 days in a row, nothing catastrophic happening on me belly yet, all ready I look bigger. Likely some extra water weight causing that, but I expect some gains for sure over the next weeks.