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ShweezyBTFO
10-25-2013, 10:19 AM
In New England they say Brady > Montana because advancing to 5 Super Bowls beats advancing to 4 and you can't penalize someone for making it to more Super Bowls.

2007 AFCCG: Brady with a poor game and gets the lucky break of the opponent's best player being injured

2011 AFCCG: Brady with another poor game and gets 2 breaks with a blown call on a TD and a missed chipshot field goal.



What exactly did Brady do to play his way into either Super Bowl? Seems like he was a beneficiary of fluke events much like any other athlete who sports misc attributes their success to as "luck"

Patriots fans this is a good thread for you to step off the ledge with, after getting shut down by wachaveli and company last night.


My analysis: rakim > jay-z fwiw

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 10:22 AM
This is what being a Giants fan is like? Ouch.

ShweezyBTFO
10-25-2013, 10:24 AM
I'm a broncos fan. Do you even signature phaggot??!

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 10:29 AM
http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/a44R8Om_460sa.gif

ShweezyBTFO
10-25-2013, 10:37 AM
Is that one of the 2 Asian guys you go out with on the weekends? ;)

captainquarters
10-25-2013, 10:38 AM
2011 AFCG, Ravens choked, Cundiff missed a chip shot, Lee Evans shoulda held on, sterling moore with that strip of peace

2007 AFCG Patriots defense was top 5.

imo im a pats fan but brady has been sub par in the big ones. one huge factor in getting to all those SB's was due to the fact the defense was steller and got a couple lucky breaks.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 10:41 AM
Also why the fukk does Denver have to play in Foxborough 3 years in a row?

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 10:41 AM
2011 AFCG, Ravens choked, Cundiff missed a chip shot, Lee Evans shoulda held on, sterling moore with that strip of peace

2007 AFCG Patriots defense was top 5.

imo im a pats fan but brady has been sub par in the big ones. one huge factor in getting to all those SB's was due to the fact the defense was steller and got a couple lucky breaks.

Defense was stellar is 2007 and 2011

What the fuk am I reading.

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 10:42 AM
Also why the fukk does Denver have to play in Foxborough 3 years in a row?

Because Peyton needs someone to hug him and hold him close when it gets cold, and that gets Tommy AKA Sauron AKA The Ring Hunter AKA The prophet AKA king Brady's pen15 hard as diamonds.

AKA You finna get tapped in foxboro

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 10:48 AM
Because Peyton needs someone to hug him and hold him close when it gets cold, and that gets Tommy AKA Sauron AKA The Ring Hunter AKA The prophet AKA king Brady's pen15 hard as diamonds.

AKA You finna get tapped in foxboro

You are saying anything right now.
PS doesn't Aragon aka Peyton aka Tha 5head aka laser rocket arm aka Buick pusher supreme aka CUT THAT MEAT aka papa john's papa win in the end?

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 10:53 AM
You are saying anything right now.
PS doesn't Aragon aka Peyton aka Tha 5head aka laser rocket arm aka Buick pusher supreme aka CUT THAT MEAT aka papa john's papa win in the end?

Frodo wins bro. Aragorn is just the regular season hero. Who dies in the end I might add.

Footage of Peytons rocket laser arm

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YcpmJc2JE2A/TWvz_kt-C3I/AAAAAAAAAEY/tLye0ODx4zE/s320/Lame-Duck-Spotlight.png

cashinout
10-25-2013, 10:53 AM
lol Tom Brady is already ahead of Montana and he's still got like 4-5 years to play

he'll win another ring and all the haters will find even more reasons to discredit the GOAT QB to ever walk this planet

EastCoastNiner
10-25-2013, 10:55 AM
You are saying anything right now.
PS doesn't Aragon aka Peyton aka Tha 5head aka laser rocket arm aka Buick pusher supreme aka CUT THAT MEAT aka papa john's papa win in the end?

http://i.imgur.com/5NvsU7O.gif



Edit: L O ****ing L with Sdballer beating me to it. That's the one thing that stood out in that description of Manning.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 10:57 AM
Frodo wins bro. Aragorn is just the regular season hero. Who dies in the end I might add.

Footage of Peytons rocket laser arm

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YcpmJc2JE2A/TWvz_kt-C3I/AAAAAAAAAEY/tLye0ODx4zE/s320/Lame-Duck-Spotlight.png
2G0loI0Jn5M

Straight from the horses mouth. Get it?? Horse...

captainquarters
10-25-2013, 10:58 AM
Defense was stellar is 2007 and 2011

What the fuk am I reading.

2011 sucked balls.
2007 was top 10

2011 pats got lucky.
2007 what did brady throw like 3 picks against the chargers?

ShweezyBTFO
10-25-2013, 10:58 AM
lol Tom Brady is already ahead of Montana and he's still got like 4-5 years to play

he'll win another ring and all the haters will find even more reasons to discredit the GOAT QB to ever walk this planet

Implying jigga man
is the GOAT...notsureifsrs

frezKo
10-25-2013, 10:59 AM
brady = goat quaterback

/thread

cashinout
10-25-2013, 11:00 AM
Implying jigga man
is the GOAT...notsureifsrs

you can't be srs

jay z is a business mogul worth 500 million dollars

eminem is a has been who keeps releasing chittier and chittier music for some reason

ShweezyBTFO
10-25-2013, 11:04 AM
you can't be srs

jay z is a business mogul worth 500 million dollars

eminem is a has been who keeps releasing chittier and chittier music for some reason

Oh lawd in on sdballer v cashinout rap battle

Ecnewyx
10-25-2013, 11:04 AM
2011 AFCG, Ravens choked, Cundiff missed a chip shot, Lee Evans shoulda held on, sterling moore with that strip of peace

2007 AFCG Patriots defense was top 5.

imo im a pats fan but brady has been sub par in the big ones. one huge factor in getting to all those SB's was due to the fact the defense was steller and got a couple lucky breaks.


Defense was stellar is 2007 and 2011

What the fuk am I reading.

I assumed he meant the prior SBs. Patriots defense was bad in 2011 and their postseason was helped by lighting up the Tebows and the already mentioned lucky breaks at the end of the Ravens game.


lol Tom Brady is already ahead of Montana and he's still got like 4-5 years to play

he'll win another ring and all the haters will find even more reasons to discredit the GOAT QB to ever walk this planet

All this though. If Brady wins another SB or two then the only thing stopping him from being the GOAT would be nostalgia goggles. IMO, the further apart your SBs are the more impressive it is because it shows you're getting it done with different personnel, as opposed to the same roster of other stud players.

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 11:04 AM
Brady is the GOAT. Montana has like 3x as many one and dones as Brady.


Can't just focus on what brady has done bad and pretend montana was jesus christ.



Brady is better than Montana. If I was starting a team with the exact same roster and I could choose montana or brady, I would take Brady 10/10 times. He scales SO MUCH BETTER with talent than Montana.

Brady with ONE GREAT RECEIVER who was past his prime = absolute monster, 18-0, best offense ever, most TD's ever. Best season ever.

Montana had the GOAT receiver for almost his entire career.

captainquarters
10-25-2013, 11:07 AM
Id still like to cement my opinion that brady is the goat.

ShweezyBTFO
10-25-2013, 11:08 AM
Brady is the GOAT. Montana has like 3x as many one and dones as Brady.


Can't just focus on what brady has done bad and pretend montana was jesus christ.



Brady is better than Montana. If I was starting a team with the exact same roster and I could choose montana or brady, I would take Brady 10/10 times. He scales SO MUCH BETTER with talent than Montana.


Agreed brah jay-z turned Kanye into a star

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 11:09 AM
I assumed he meant the prior SBs. Patriots defense was bad in 2011 and their postseason was helped by lighting up the Tebows and the already mentioned lucky breaks at the end of the Ravens game.



All this though. If Brady wins another SB or two then the only thing stopping him from being the GOAT would be nostalgia goggles. IMO, the further apart your SBs are the more impressive it is because it shows you're getting it done with different personnel, as opposed to the same roster of other stud players.

Brady has obviously struggled, however if you want to pin those SB losses on him then you are crazy. Without any homer bias it's nearly impossible to say brady is anything BUT the GOAT. Making it to 5 superbowls is crazy, especially having won 3 of them.

His career is still not even close to over and if he retired tomorrow worst case scenario is him and Montana are basically the same.

Could not agree more about the roster comment. Brady has proven he can get there with anyone, running different styles of play. He will probably go there AGAIN in the next few years. He's a monster. I'm glad I got to watch him, and I lament the day when he retires already.

airdog93
10-25-2013, 11:10 AM
cant believe im saying it, but respect to op (rakim>>>)

Ecnewyx
10-25-2013, 11:15 AM
Brady has obviously struggled, however if you want to pin those SB losses on him then you are crazy. Without any homer bias it's nearly impossible to say brady is anything BUT the GOAT. Making it to 5 superbowls is crazy, especially having won 3 of them.

Yeah, but I think it's more that Brady has not played all that well (by his standards) in the SB. Compared with someone like Montana who has like 10+ TDs with no picks.

A win is a win but perception matters.

Winning 4 out of 6 would make a big difference in this discussion.



His career is still not even close to over and if he retired tomorrow worst case scenario is him and Montana are basically the same.

Right now I still have him behind Montana though, although they probably could be equals. Say, if you counted a SB loss as a 0.5. And really, both XLII and XLVI could've gone either way. Vegas screwed the pooch on the odds for the first one while in the second they realized the teams were about even.

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 11:22 AM
Yeah, but I think it's more that Brady has not played all that well (by his standards) in the SB. Compared with someone like Montana who has like 10+ TDs with no picks.

A win is a win but perception matters.

Winning 4 out of 6 would make a big difference in this discussion.



Right now I still have him behind Montana though, although they probably could be equals. Say, if you counted a SB loss as a 0.5. And really, both XLII and XLVI could've gone either way. Vegas screwed the pooch on the odds for the first one while in the second they realized the teams were about even.

Every patriots fan knew that matchup was a nightmare both times. The spread was totally absurd. Brady didn't even play bad in 2011, he actually set the record for consecutive completions with like 16.

2011 was the definition of the defense just being horrible. Saying that giants defense was bad is a misnomer, it gave up yards, but it pressured the living fck out of brady.

And anyone wants to talk about bad luck? Best receiver nearly breaks ankle and does nothing in the SB = bradys fault and not bad luck apaprently.

"Brady got lucky" bitch please.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 11:36 AM
http://i.imgur.com/5NvsU7O.gif



Edit: L O ****ing L with Sdballer beating me to it. That's the one thing that stood out in that description of Manning.

How quickly we forget the GOAT Endorser's strongest efforts.

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 11:39 AM
How quickly we forget the GOAT Endorser's strongest efforts.

Haha no I remember the commercial I got the reference, I just thought it was hilarious because of how many wounded ducks that dude has tossed.

And to make it even worse, DT and decker are CATCHING those horrific throws.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 11:43 AM
Haha no I remember the commercial I got the reference, I just thought it was hilarious because of how many wounded ducks that dude has tossed.

And to make it even worse, DT and decker are CATCHING those horrific throws.

He's always thrown ugly deepish balls. They've had wobble since Tennessee. Kinda like Phillip Rivers but with a touch of class.

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 11:48 AM
He's always thrown ugly deepish balls. They've had wobble since Tennessee. Kinda like Phillip Rivers but with a touch of class.

These balls aint dat deep doe. I'm talking like 15 yard wobblefests. It actually worked to his advantage so far, 3 easy interceptions have been dropped lol I dn how he comes out with a tight spial sometimes and then these knuckleballs.

Possible nerve problem with his hand from the neck surgery flaring up? I dn. He very seriously does have a noodle arm. Although he does maintain accuracy on his "lobs"

Wish brady went deep more, he can be so inaccurate deep cuz he NEVER FUKING EVER GOES DEEP TO ANYONE EVER FOR ANY REASON because they all suck.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 11:52 AM
These balls aint dat deep doe. I'm talking like 15 yard wobblefests. It actually worked to his advantage so far, 3 easy interceptions have been dropped lol I dn how he comes out with a tight spial sometimes and then these knuckleballs.

Possible nerve problem with his hand from the neck surgery flaring up? I dn. He very seriously does have a noodle arm. Although he does maintain accuracy on his "lobs"

Wish brady went deep more, he can be so inaccurate deep cuz he NEVER FUKING EVER GOES DEEP TO ANYONE EVER FOR ANY REASON because they all suck.

lulz. Had a pretty deep TD to DT last week, looked strong. He's actually throwing the most accurate deep balls in his career.
http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/52656db0ecad04f57fbaa398-450-183/1-87.png

PS: Your weekly jimmy jam test...

In playoff games decided by a kick (i.e game was won or lost on a FG in the last 5 minutes or OT):

Manning (0-5) - QB rating: 91.1
Brady (6-0) - QB rating: 73.8

Each and every time Manning put his team in position to win, his kicker missed. Each and every time his opponent put themselves in position to win, their kicker converted.

Each and every time Brady put his team in position to win, his kicker converted. Each and every time his opponent put themselves in position to win, his kicker missed.

cashinout
10-25-2013, 11:53 AM
These balls aint dat deep doe. I'm talking like 15 yard wobblefests. It actually worked to his advantage so far, 3 easy interceptions have been dropped lol I dn how he comes out with a tight spial sometimes and then these knuckleballs.

Possible nerve problem with his hand from the neck surgery flaring up? I dn. He very seriously does have a noodle arm. Although he does maintain accuracy on his "lobs"

Wish brady went deep more, he can be so inaccurate deep cuz he NEVER FUKING EVER GOES DEEP TO ANYONE EVER FOR ANY REASON because they all suck.

He went deep to randy moss all the time
(no homo)
those were the days

Ecnewyx
10-25-2013, 11:54 AM
PS: Your weekly jimmy jam test...

Only conclusion:

Peyton is not a winner.

Source: Did he win?

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 11:56 AM
Only conclusion:

Peyton is not a winner.

Source: Did he win?

cROJW9Jn3ds

Krunk Fu
10-25-2013, 11:56 AM
In New England they say Brady > Montana because advancing to 5 Super Bowls beats advancing to 4 and you can't penalize someone for making it to more Super Bowls.

2007 AFCCG: Brady with a poor game and gets the lucky break of the opponent's best player being injured

2011 AFCCG: Brady with another poor game and gets 2 breaks with a blown call on a TD and a missed chipshot field goal.



What exactly did Brady do to play his way into either Super Bowl? Seems like he was a beneficiary of fluke events much like any other athlete who sports misc attributes their success to as "luck"

Patriots fans this is a good thread for you to step off the ledge with, after getting shut down by wachaveli and company last night.


My analysis: rakim > jay-z fwiw

My analysis: New England cheated. & Talib Kweli > Jay Z

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_National_Football_League_videotaping_controve rsy

Destructodave
10-25-2013, 11:59 AM
2G0loI0Jn5M

Straight from the horses mouth. Get it?? Horse...

U know, I do like Peyton; he just chokes in big games. Now I despise Eli, though.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 12:02 PM
U know, I do like Peyton; he just chokes in big games. Now I despise Eli, though.

http://i.imgur.com/hPDbw.jpg

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 12:06 PM
lulz. Had a pretty deep TD to DT last week, looked strong. He's actually throwing the most accurate deep balls in his career.
http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/52656db0ecad04f57fbaa398-450-183/1-87.png

PS: Your weekly jimmy jam test...

You think showing me an 0-5 Manning stat vs a 6-0 Brady stat is helping your case? Whoah. Is this getting way easier or are you not trying anymore.

Would also love to see that Mannings KICKER is 0 for 5 or if manning simply LOST to a kick which is what is clearly implied.

Game I can think of off the top of my head

Ravens won on a kick because MANNING blew it
Titans won in 2000 19-16 where no kicking was involved
2006 vs steelers 46 yard field goal missed (to tie, in a game the steelers DOMINATED)
2011 mannings kicker actually hit a 51 yarder to take the lead, only to lose to game winning drive by sanchez for a FG
edit - Looks like I missed one, but the missed FG vs Miami was in 2001 and didn't lose the game, Miamis ensuing drive scored a touchdown.

So um. Where is this stat even coming from? I have looked at EVERY single Manning playoff loss, one was a missed FG, one was literally mannings pick that led to the fg happening (last year) and one where his defense just straight up lost after his own kicker hit a 51 yarder.

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 12:09 PM
Here is Mannings only superbowl winning log


Manning: 30-38, 268 yards, 1 TD, 3 INT, 71.9 QB
Manning: 15-30, 170 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT, 39.6 QB
Manning: 27-47, 349 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 1 rushing TD, 79.1 QB
Manning: 25-38, 247 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 81.8 QB

3 TD 6 INT

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 12:11 PM
lol truth is I'm not trying because of what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.

But, I will let someone do the work for me, and earnestly trust you to read it.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2013/10/the-myth-of-playoff-peyton.html

xoxoxo

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 12:12 PM
Oh god. Just read it, and you have literally got to be fukking kidding me lol

Dark days ahead for the peyton goat crew if that article is any indicator.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 12:16 PM
Just do it and tell me how you feel. It's really not that long and there are handy charts and graphs.

It was written by a pats fan anyway.

NYSackExchange
10-25-2013, 12:18 PM
Brady can't even hold Geno's jock.

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 12:18 PM
Just do it and tell me how you feel. It's really not that long and there are handy charts and graphs.

Yeah, focusing on an absurd stat that makes Peyton look way better than he really is. The best way to tell how retarded the stat is, is that he is somehow ahead of Brady in it even in the postseason, where Manning is an absolute nightmare. Ignoring that brady has a WAY better record in both.

Win probability and expected points added? You have got to be joking lol

GetBigyo
10-25-2013, 12:18 PM
Making a SB should count for something. "Oh noez but he didn't win! He choked!"

Only two ****ing QBs make it per year. Most QBs never win one, yet alone MAKE one. Yes, making 5 should count for something.

EastCoastNiner
10-25-2013, 12:18 PM
lol truth is I'm not trying because of what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.

But, I will let someone do the work for me, and earnestly trust you to read it.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2013/10/the-myth-of-playoff-peyton.html

xoxoxo

Where is this bogus statistic coming from about the FG's? These are the only games that were remotely close and resulted in losses for Manning. Unless that statistic is very loose and doesn't count a situation where three FG's were hit in the last five minutes by both teams, I have NO CLUE where he's getting those numbers from. It seems very disingenuous what he's going as Brady put his team in position TWICE in Super Bowls to win with a few minutes left, yet the defense couldn't hold it.

Pittsburgh
Jets (Vinatieri actually put the Colts ahead with 53 seconds left)
Ravens


Also, I'd suggest many people here do some reading as well. This is a great book that compares Brady against the all-time greats.

http://patspub.patsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Tom_Brady_VS_The_NFL.jpg

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 12:19 PM
I already posted it as well ECN and I don't think Beliedat was really looking for a full on argument but the stat was obviously made up by whoever posted it, I just went through mannings entire postseason game log.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 12:20 PM
Yeah, focusing on an absurd stat that makes Peyton look way better than he really is. The best way to tell how retarded the stat is, is that he is somehow ahead of Brady in it even in the postseason, where Manning is an absolute nightmare. Ignoring that brady has a WAY better record in both.

Win probability and expected points added? You have got to be joking lol

Then ignore that stat and read the cotdayum article written by a Brady Bunch nigqa like yoself.


Since 1999, eight quarterbacks have thrown more than 100 passes in the second-half of one-possession playoff games. Per Pro-Football-Reference, here they are:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Yi-fwgPNIVE/UmmGCQ_BbyI/AAAAAAAAAFo/c2xUqjLi84s/s1600/Screen+Shot+2013-10-24+at+4.41.27+PM.png

Ecnewyx
10-25-2013, 12:21 PM
Making a SB should count for something. "Oh noez but he didn't win! He choked!"

Only two ****ing QBs make it per year. Most QBs never win one, yet alone MAKE one. Yes, making 5 should count for something.

Yeah, they count as 0.5 of a win for me.


Just do it and tell me how you feel. It's really not that long and there are handy charts and graphs.

It was written by a pats fan anyway.

I read it.

It was interesting, but it didn't really say anything that an objective fan wouldn't have picked up on. Perception makes all the difference. There's a Tony Romo article also that says exactly that... while listing his critical game choke jobs, lulz.

GetBigyo
10-25-2013, 12:22 PM
I find it funny how many people claim Brady wasn't even that good during the SB wins. First one, yes, but other two? Brady led the league in passing TDs in 04. And led GW drives multiple times.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 12:23 PM
I'm inquiring about the sauce on that stat, it was posted on another board by a known numbers dude who's almost always right. Should have sauce soon.

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 12:24 PM
Then ignore that stat and read the cotdayum article written by a Brady Bunch nigqa like yoself.

All that cherry picked stat shows me is that Brady plays in a metric fuk ton of close games, and tends to win them based on his record.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 12:27 PM
I read it.

It was interesting, but it didn't really say anything that an objective fan wouldn't have picked up on. Perception makes all the difference. There's a Tony Romo article also that says exactly that... while listing his critical game choke jobs, lulz.

True. I'm not saying it should free Manning of any blame, but the most interesting things are A) How godmode brees has been, and B) How similar Peyton plays in the playoffs and reg. season.

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 12:29 PM
True. I'm not saying it should free Manning of any blame, but the most interesting things are A) How godmode brees has been, and B) How similar Peyton plays in the playoffs and reg. season.

That sample size was ridiculously small. You can't just gift Brees because of ONE playoff run.

timee3
10-25-2013, 12:30 PM
Gd1

Ecnewyx
10-25-2013, 12:32 PM
I find it funny how many people claim Brady wasn't even that good during the SB wins. First one, yes, but other two? Brady led the league in passing TDs in 04. And led GW drives multiple times.

But he wasn't that good. As in: since 2007 Brady's been on a tear. Before 2007, Brady wasn't as good. He wasn't as accurate, he didn't throw as far, he didn't throw for as many TDs.

It's not like he was a **** QB. He just wasn't as good then as he is now. If you took Brady's post-2007 career, and just extrapolated it out over his first 5-6 seasons, and kept the wins, he'd be godmode and there'd be no question of his GOATness.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 12:32 PM
That sample size was ridiculously small. You can't just gift Brees because of ONE playoff run.

His SB run only comprises 1/3rd of his playoff experience. He's had fewer runs than Brady and Manning, but he has been fantastic.

66.84% | 2980 | 22 | 4

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 12:33 PM
But he wasn't that good. As in: since 2007 Brady's been on a tear. Before 2007, Brady wasn't as good. He wasn't as accurate, he didn't throw as far, he didn't throw for as many TDs.

It's not like he was a **** QB. He just wasn't as good then as he is now.

This just gets misinterpreted to mean that he was bad. He was still Tom Brady, he just had Troy Brown to throw to an a phenomenal run game and a real defense.

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 12:34 PM
His SB run only comprises 1/3rd of his playoff experience. He's had fewer runs than Brady and Manning, but he has been fantastic.

66.84% | 2980 | 22 | 4

At what point is the number of playoff performances he has an indictment on his overall ability?

5 playoff appearances in a 13 year career. Come on now.

ShweezyBTFO
10-25-2013, 12:34 PM
I find it funny how many people claim Brady wasn't even that good during the SB wins. First one, yes, but other two? Brady led the league in passing TDs in 04. And led GW drives multiple times.


Did you even read OP's post you stupid jersey phaggot? (Kidding about the jersey part) Not one mention of Super Bowl performances. Also aware me of when Brady threw 50 TD passes in 2004.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 12:38 PM
At what point is the number of playoff performances he has an indictment on his overall ability?

5 playoff appearances in a 13 year career. Come on now.

Football is a team game and you need to get this into your head. Great players play on bad teams. Brees hasn't been below a 90 passer rating since 2008. He hasn't been below 89 in a decade.

It's not an indictment to someone who understands that football is a game of variables and multiple phases.

Oh dear I feel a russlin.

Ecnewyx
10-25-2013, 12:39 PM
This just gets misinterpreted to mean that he was bad. He was still Tom Brady, he just had Troy Brown to throw to an a phenomenal run game and a real defense.

He was sort of tier 2 imo. Like a Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco. He just managed to win 3 SBs doing it, thanks to a phenomenal run game and a real defense.

dekd
10-25-2013, 12:44 PM
brb when Brady wins anything it's luck, when they lose it's cause they are overrated and suck

Some of you phaggots just refuse to give him any credit

EastCoastNiner
10-25-2013, 12:51 PM
I can confirm, that statistic is full of **** and not even accurate. I just went back through every playoff loss Manning has suffered, and unless there's something I don't know about the Titans game in his first playoff loss, this guy is an idiot. The only ones that have a chance of making any sense are the ones in bold, but even those have serious questions about them and what this guy is counting.


1999: No FG under five minutes occurred.

2000: Against the Dolphins, Vanderjagt actually kicked an FG with 5:01 to go in the game to put the Colts up 7. No FG under five minutes occurred there.

2002: Not even worth mentioning. This was a 41-0 thrashing of a Manning led team.

2003: Vinatieri (Patriots at the time) kicked a FG with 0:51 remaining in the game, but the Patriots were up by seven points before that kick. This made it a ten point game. No FG's were attempted by the Colts that game.

2004: No FG's or scores occurred within the final five minutes against the Patriots. No FG attempts occurred either.

2005: Vanderjagt missed a 46 yards FG with under a minute tog go in the game to lose 21-18. However, the Colts had been down 11 points with under five minutes to go, so they were trying to comeback. Manning had them in a hole that game.

2007: The only scoring that occurred under five minutes to play was a run by Billy Volek. The only FG missed that day was by Nate Kaeding.

2008: Nate Kaeding kicked a FG with under a minute to go to send the game to over-time. Sproles ended the game on a run for a TD.

2009: Super Bowl loss by 14 points. No FG's were made or attempted under five minutes left in the game.

2010: Here's another misleading one. The Colts kicked a FG with :57 left in the game to take the lead. However, the Jets kicked one with three seconds left to get the win. Somehow this guy must be completely ignoring that the Colts kicked a FG for the lead under five minutes to go, but just couldn't hold the lead.

2012: The only scoring done inn the final five minutes of the game was a TD to Jacoby Jones. The Ravens did kick a FG in over-time, which was SECOND over-time (not under five minutes left), and that was right after the Manning INT.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 12:55 PM
I can confirm, that statistic is full of **** and not even accurate. I just went back through every playoff loss Manning has suffered, and unless there's something I don't know about the Titans game in his first playoff loss, this guy is an idiot. The only ones that have a chance of making any sense are the ones in bold, but even those have serious questions about them and what this guy is counting.


1999: No FG under five minutes occurred.

2000: Against the Dolphins, Vanderjagt actually kicked an FG with 5:01 to go in the game to put the Colts up 7. No FG under five minutes occurred there.

2002: Not even worth mentioning. This was a 41-0 thrashing of a Manning led team.

2003: Vinatieri (Patriots at the time) kicked a FG with 0:51 remaining in the game, but the Patriots were up by seven points before that kick. This made it a ten point game. No FG's were attempted by the Colts that game.

2004: No FG's or scores occurred within the final five minutes against the Patriots. No FG attempts occurred either.

2005: Vanderjagt missed a 46 yards FG with under a minute tog go in the game to lose 21-18. However, the Colts had been down 11 points with under five minutes to go, so they were trying to comeback. Manning had them in a hole that game.

2007: The only scoring that occurred under five minutes to play was a run by Billy Volek. The only FG missed that day was by Nate Kaeding.

2008: Nate Kaeding kicked a FG with under a minute to go to send the game to over-time. Sproles ended the game on a run for a TD.

2009: Super Bowl loss by 14 points. No FG's were made or attempted under five minutes left in the game.

2010: Here's another misleading one. The Colts kicked a FG with :57 left in the game to take the lead. However, the Jets kicked one with three seconds left to get the win. Somehow this guy must be completely ignoring that the Colts kicked a FG for the lead under five minutes to go, but just couldn't hold the lead.

2012: The only scoring done inn the final five minutes of the game was a TD to Jacoby Jones. The Ravens did kick a FG in over-time, which was SECOND over-time (not under five minutes left), and that was right after the Manning INT.


Strong research, I applaud your efforts. I'm still waiting on the dude who originally provided that quote to explain. If it's bullsht, I'll gladly consume crow.

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 12:56 PM
Strong research, I applaud your efforts. I'm still waiting on the dude who originally provided that quote to explain. If it's bullsht, I'll gladly consume crow.

As a Manning fan, you are obviously used to said crow digestion.

Ah feelsgoodman having a nice back and forth with beliedat, feels like it's been a while.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 12:58 PM
As a Manning fan, you are obviously used to said crow digestion.
I would consider pats fans much more arrogant than colts or broncos fans, is there any bigger call for crow than this?
5lk-wWUQKBg

Although the douchebag part is quite juvenile. We're better than that here.

EastCoastNiner
10-25-2013, 01:00 PM
Strong research, I applaud your efforts. I'm still waiting on the dude who originally provided that quote to explain. If it's bullsht, I'll gladly consume crow.

I used pro-football reference and did a few things as I actually thought the guy MIGHT have been correct, but it seemed to bias to be true.


1. Checked to see if either kicker even missed a FG during the game.

2. Went to the five minute mark of the fourth quarter and checked for every score or missed FG attempt.


What I think he did, which is extremely disingenuous is that if an opposing team was up by 10 points with a minute to go and made a FG, he's counting that as one of Manning's losses which is complete garbage. I'd really like to see his response as I believe that's what he was doing, and there's a very small chance I'm wrong as I just went through each of his losses.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 01:01 PM
I used pro-football reference and did a few things as I actually thought the guy MIGHT have been correct, but it seemed to bias to be true.


1. Checked to see if either kicker even missed a FG during the game.

2. Went to the five minute mark of the fourth quarter and checked for every score or missed FG attempt.


What I think he did, which is extremely disingenuous is that if an opposing team was up by 10 points with a minute to go and made a FG, he's counting that as one of Manning's losses which is complete garbage. I'd really like to see his response as I believe that's what he was doing, and there's a very small chance I'm wrong as I just went through each of his losses.

I posted your research as a response, now we wait.

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 01:01 PM
To be fair, when has brady ever been arrogant though? He is probably the best player ever in terms of never saying the wrong thing. He is super modest, and never ever says something stupid(barring that 1 time, which btw, best offense ever joking about being held to under 20 is laughable, holly hindsight).

Really though, Pats fans are obnoxiously spoiled.

Lol EastCoast, all I did was look at this article, it chronicles every game.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/47706/the-peyton-manning-playoff-question

Ecnewyx
10-25-2013, 01:06 PM
What I think he did, which is extremely disingenuous is that if an opposing team was up by 10 points with a minute to go and made a FG, he's counting that as one of Manning's losses which is complete garbage. I'd really like to see his response as I believe that's what he was doing, and there's a very small chance I'm wrong as I just went through each of his losses.

I think you need to do the same search for Brady's stats though. Otherwise the general point is still correct, which is that Peyton's team let him down (either special teams or defense) in these very close games whereas Brady's team didn't.

EastCoastNiner
10-25-2013, 01:06 PM
I posted your research as a response, now we wait.

I know what he's likely going to say, as I can see a few games where he can spin it the way he wants, but he's extremely bias.

He's going to be counting this without using any context:


-Game goes to O.T. against the Ravens.
-Both teams possess the ball for an entire over-time period.
-Manning throws an INT near mid-field.
-Ravens go about 20-30 yards (guessing) and kick a FG.


Brb, blame and credit the kicker.

That's why there needs to be context with these things or else anyone can use statistics to make someone look great or bad. I don't even like bashing Manning, but it only happens when people try and discredit Brady. To me, they are the two best QB's I've ever seen, and these new generation QB's have a LONG ways to go until touching either of their jocks. The only one I see having a chance right now is Rodgers. I do not include Brees in this discussion.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 01:06 PM
To be fair, when has brady ever been arrogant though? He is probably the best player ever in terms of never saying the wrong thing. He is super modest, and never ever says something stupid(barring that 1 time, which btw, best offense ever joking about being held to under 20 is laughable, holly hindsight).

Really though, Pats fans are obnoxiously spoiled.

Lol EastCoast, all I did was look at this article, it chronicles every game.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/47706/the-peyton-manning-playoff-question

Dayum I remember those games in which he crushed denver, i was at the 41-10 game. Never posted a sub 140 rating against denver in the postseason.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 01:08 PM
I know what he's likely going to say, as I can see a few games where he can spin it the way he wants, but he's extremely bias.

He's going to be counting this without using any context:


-Game goes to O.T. against the Ravens.
-Both teams possess the ball for an entire over-time period.
-Manning throws an INT near mid-field.
-Ravens go about 20-30 yards (guessing) and kick a FG.


Brb, blame and credit the kicker.

That's why there needs to be context with these things or else anyone can use statistics to make someone look great or bad. I don't even like bashing Manning, but it only happens when people try and discredit Brady. To me, they are the two best QB's I've ever seen, and these new generation QB's have a LONG ways to go until touching either of their jocks. The only one I see having a chance right now is Rodgers. I do not include Brees in this discussion.

Fair points. There are tons of these articles, both bashing and excusing manning. It's almost semantics at this point.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/peyton-mannings-9-11-playoff-record-is-call-for-help/20868/

edit; You have to include the manlet champion breesus. It's just unfair and dishonest not to.

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 01:11 PM
Fair points. There are tons of these articles, both bashing and excusing manning. It's almost semantics at this point.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/peyton-mannings-9-11-playoff-record-is-call-for-help/20868/

edit; You have to include the manlet champion breesus. It's just unfair and dishonest not to.

The 9-11 is an indictment but also a measure of how good he is. I mean to lose that much you have to have been there right? It's like good news bad news.

EastCoastNiner
10-25-2013, 01:12 PM
I think you need to do the same search for Brady's stats though. Otherwise the general point is still correct, which is that Peyton's team let him down (either special teams or defense) in these very close games whereas Brady's team didn't.

I would do that, but I didn't doubt the Brady win/loss record when decided by a kick. I can remember Oakland, St. Louis, Carolina, and Philadelphia off the top of my head.

The part I doubted was that Manning's kickers screwed him many times, and that other teams kickers won the game for the opposing team many times. There's no doubt Brady has had the help of his kickers in some close games, but his defense has also let him down many times.

Anyone can play the coulda, woulda, shoulda game, but Brady could easily have no Super Bowls right now (not that easily) or he could have six.

-His first three.
-Loss to the Colts (AFCCG with an apology from the league. The Colts then smacked the Bears
-First Giants loss.
-Second Giants loss.


It sucks that Brady put his team ahead with just minutes to go in each of those games as well.

Ecnewyx
10-25-2013, 01:15 PM
I would do that, but I didn't doubt the Brady win/loss record when decided by a kick. I can remember Oakland, St. Louis, Carolina, and Philadelphia off the top of my head.

The part I doubted was that Manning's kickers screwed him many times, and that other teams kickers won the game for the opposing team many times. There's no doubt Brady has had the help of his kickers in some close games, but his defense has also let him down many times.

Anyone can play the coulda, woulda, shoulda game, but Brady could easily have no Super Bowls right now (not that easily) or he could have six.

-His first three.
-Loss to the Colts (AFCCG with an apology from the league. The Colts then smacked the Bears
-First Giants loss.
-Second Giants loss.

It sucks that Brady put his team ahead with just minutes to go in each of those games as well.

The impetus for the original stat was probably the Cundiff choke job.

sdballer5588
10-25-2013, 01:17 PM
The impetus for the original stat was probably the Cundiff choke job.

Which would have forced OT, not won the game I might add.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 01:22 PM
The 9-11 is an indictment but also a measure of how good he is. I mean to lose that much you have to have been there right? It's like good news bad news.

Right in the feels.

EastCoastNiner
10-25-2013, 01:25 PM
The impetus for the original stat was probably the Cundiff choke job.

I would have shot myself in the head if the Patriots had blown that game. I had been there for the Jets loss and Ravens loss the two previous years as I have season tickets to the Patriots.

I still remember Brady chucking a deep pass to Slater after the Spikes INT, and he ended up throwing an INT on that pass. When the FG was missed, the stadium went crazy.

I hate the Ravens and Jets more than any other AFC team by a WIDE margin. I probably hate the Jets more as they talk **** and haven't won ****.

ShweezyBTFO
10-25-2013, 02:24 PM
I would have shot myself in the head if the Patriots had blown that game. I had been there for the Jets loss and Ravens loss the two previous years as I have season tickets to the Patriots.

I still remember Brady chucking a deep pass to Slater after the Spikes INT, and he ended up throwing an INT on that pass. When the FG was missed, the stadium went crazy.

I hate the Ravens and Jets more than any other AFC team by a WIDE margin. I probably hate the Jets more as they talk **** and haven't won ****.
Don't talk like this. I'm pretty sure a certain racist redskin fan is already considering this and I don't want him to do anything to harm himself no matter how big of a phaggot he is.

Beliedat
10-25-2013, 03:41 PM
I know what he's likely going to say, as I can see a few games where he can spin it the way he wants, but he's extremely bias.

He's going to be counting this without using any context:


-Game goes to O.T. against the Ravens.
-Both teams possess the ball for an entire over-time period.
-Manning throws an INT near mid-field.
-Ravens go about 20-30 yards (guessing) and kick a FG.


Brb, blame and credit the kicker.

That's why there needs to be context with these things or else anyone can use statistics to make someone look great or bad. I don't even like bashing Manning, but it only happens when people try and discredit Brady. To me, they are the two best QB's I've ever seen, and these new generation QB's have a LONG ways to go until touching either of their jocks. The only one I see having a chance right now is Rodgers. I do not include Brees in this discussion.
Here's the response, slight homer


here's how I'm counting them:

1. 12/30/2000: Manning led the Colts to a 7 point lead with 5:01 remaining. Jay Fiedler led the Dolphins on a 70 yard TD drive to force OT, scoring a TD with 0:40 remaining. In OT, Mike Vanderjagt missed a 49 yard FG. On the ensuing possession, the dolphins scored the winning TD on a 9 play, 61 yard drive.
2. 1/15/2006: Colts were down by 11 late in the 4th quarter. Manning led the colts on a 80 yard drive to bring colts to within 3 with 4:30 to play. Next possession, the colts were pinned deep, and failed to convert a first down. On the next play, Bettis fumbled the ball, recovered by Harper, who returned the ball to the 42, giving Manning the ball with decent field position and 1:01 on the clock. He drove the team to the PIT 28, where Vanderjagt missed the tying FG with 0:21 remaining.
3. 1/3/2009: Colts had a 17-4 lead late in the 4th quarter. With 0:33 remaining, Nate Kaeding hit a 26 yard FG to tie the game. In the first possession of OT, the Chargers capped off a 65 yard drive with a 22 yard TD run by Darren Sproles.
4. 1/8/2011: Colts were down 14-13 late in the 4th, when Vinateri hit a 50 yard FG to put the Colts up by 2 with 0:57 remaining. Unfortunately, this was too much time for Mark Sanchez who was able to advance the ball to the Colts 14, where Nick Folk hit a 32 yarder to win the game.
5. 1/12/2013: Broncos held a 7 point lead late in the 4th, when Flacco miraculously hit Jacoby Jones with a 70 yard TD pass with 0:31 remaining to tie the game. In OT, Manning did throw the critical int. However, that doesn’t change the fact that Tucker hit a 47 yard FG to win the game.

ETA: gamelogs (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00/gamelog/post/). feel free to double-check.