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View Full Version : Is Derrick Rose's All Around Game Underrated?



SouthofHeaven6
10-22-2013, 03:44 PM
Everybody considers him to just be a great scorer but dude averaged about 8 assists a game his last 2 healthy seasons. Defensively, he's become a very good point guard as well - in his last full season in 2010 - 2011, he had 4.8 defensive win shares (almost 5 wins added because of his defense). That's a huge number - Russell Westbrook has never gotten to 4 in DWS in his career. Chris Paul has been below 4.8 in every year of his career except for 1. The only guy who has been as good as Rose consistently is Rajon Rondo



Rose is elite at his position in everything really. He's the best all around point guard the league has had in a long long while

TTexasTT
10-22-2013, 03:45 PM
Hes no Jason Kidd

Antonio519
10-22-2013, 03:47 PM
Rose will probably go down as GOAT PG when he retires

SouthofHeaven6
10-22-2013, 03:48 PM
Hes no Jason Kidd

read this article - http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/19/rose-dwarfs-other-improvements-with-defense/?_r=0

houtexans23
10-22-2013, 03:48 PM
derrick rose and underrated do not go in the same sentence together. everyone worships the ground he walks on.


i personally like cp3 better because he is more of a true pg where rose is more of a hybrid guard, but i won't deny that rose is the best pg in about everything except passing and basketball iq(mainly because he's still young)

SouthofHeaven6
10-22-2013, 03:50 PM
derrick rose and underrated do not go in the same sentence together. everyone worships the ground he walks on.


i personally like cp3 better because he is more of a true pg where rose is more of a hybrid guard, but i won't deny that rose is the best pg in about everything except passing and basketball iq(mainly because he's still young)


He's a better defender and scorer than CP3 right now. Passing is not really a fair comparison...Rose has to be the primary scorer on his team. He's not had anywhere near as much around him as CP3 has had offensively

sdballer5588
10-22-2013, 03:51 PM
Every PG has one fatal flaw except Rose really, but you could say his postseason shooting is bad.

CP3 - Lacks athleticism
Curry - Ditto - also a bad defender
Parker - Bad defender
Rondo - Bad shooter
Westbrook - Incredibly inefficient, turnover machine

They are all elite at 90% of the game, but all lack one big part, except Rose who is pretty close to being the perfect PG, if he can stay healthy this year.

SouthofHeaven6
10-22-2013, 03:57 PM
Every PG has one fatal flaw except Rose really, but you could say his postseason shooting is bad.



Rose tries to do too much in the post season is the problem


This year, he will have Butler/Deng/Boozer/Noah, all of whom are 12-17 PPG guys so he hopefully Rose stays within himself and just plays his game. He should be a 22-9 guy

BullBoy8
10-22-2013, 03:57 PM
derrick rose and underrated do not go in the same sentence together. everyone worships the ground he walks on.


i personally like cp3 better because he is more of a true pg where rose is more of a hybrid guard, but i won't deny that rose is the best pg in about everything except passing and basketball iq(mainly because he's still young)

What do you consider a PG? Someone who runs the offense? Because Rose runs the Bulls offense pretty well. And Rose is definitely an underrated passer. He is pretty legit in passing. And he is definitely the best defensive PG. He will be lock down this year. As Antonio said, he will go down as the GOAT PG in the end. Gonna be fun to see.

svtballa
10-22-2013, 04:00 PM
Every PG has one fatal flaw except Rose really, but you could say his postseason shooting is bad.

CP3 - Lacks athleticism
Curry - Ditto - also a bad defender
Parker - Bad defender
Rondo - Bad shooter
Westbrook - Incredibly inefficient, turnover machine

They are all elite at 90% of the game, but all lack one big part, except Rose who is pretty close to being the perfect PG, if he can stay healthy this year.


Agree with most of this except the Westbrook turnover machine part..westys career turnovers pg.3.5...magic Johnson is at 3.9 ...no one ever considers magic a turnover machine..I think it's due to Westbrook always looking like a train ready to spill off the tracks.

houtexans23
10-22-2013, 04:10 PM
What do you consider a PG? Someone who runs the offense? Because Rose runs the Bulls offense pretty well. And Rose is definitely an underrated passer. He is pretty legit in passing. And he is definitely the best defensive PG. He will be lock down this year. As Antonio said, he will go down as the GOAT PG in the end. Gonna be fun to see.

did i ever say derrick rose wasn't the best pg in the league? i'm just saying that from a true pg perspective that award goes to cp3(rondo could be thrown in there too), but as a hybrid guard, derrick rose easily takes the throne as the best pg in the league. and sorry, but magic>rose and it's not even close.

-MarcusD-
10-22-2013, 04:19 PM
in b4 someone says underrated? He's overrated!

While it's only preseason been really impressed with his last 3 games. Hopefully it continues.

BullBoy8
10-22-2013, 04:21 PM
did i ever say derrick rose wasn't the best pg in the league? i'm just saying that from a true pg perspective that award goes to cp3(rondo could be thrown in there too), but as a hybrid guard, derrick rose easily takes the throne as the best pg in the league. and sorry, but magic>rose and it's not even close.

It does look like I am going at you. Should have spaced my stuff better and added things. It was more me asking what you thing is a "true PG" and then I gave my answer. And the other parts werent even at you. Those were just my extremely biased opinions. Ill work on my sentence structure next time.

IAmTheOne1
10-22-2013, 04:23 PM
Agree with most of this except the Westbrook turnover machine part..westys career turnovers pg.3.5...magic Johnson is at 3.9 ...no one ever considers magic a turnover machine..I think it's due to Westbrook always looking like a train ready to spill off the tracks.

Magic Johnson career assist 11.2 -3.9 turnovers
Russel Westbrook career assists 6.9 3.5 turnovers

Yes, Westbrook is a turnover machine

sdballer5588
10-22-2013, 04:37 PM
Agree with most of this except the Westbrook turnover machine part..westys career turnovers pg.3.5...magic Johnson is at 3.9 ...no one ever considers magic a turnover machine..I think it's due to Westbrook always looking like a train ready to spill off the tracks.

Assist to turnover ratio. Westbrook IS a turnover machine.


Dude above me beat me to it.

mcboo2
10-22-2013, 05:19 PM
Assist to turnover ratio. Westbrook IS a turnover machine.


Dude above me beat me to it.


I dont think westbrook is as much of a turnover machine as people make out. He has a much higher usage rating than magic and still averages a lower turnover rate. He also bears quite a bit of the scoring burden. Tov% reflects that better - magic is 20% for a career westbrook is 15%

sdballer5588
10-22-2013, 05:35 PM
I dont think westbrook is as much of a turnover machine as people make out. He has a much higher usage rating than magic and still averages a lower turnover rate. He also bears quite a bit of the scoring burden. Tov% reflects that better - magic is 20% for a career westbrook is 15%

The nature of their turnovers is entirely different. Magic turns the ball over mostly on passes. Westbrook does too, except he also turns it over by being a huge out of control retard on a very consistent basis, because he passes so much LESS often than Magic does, as shown by his INSANE 31% usage rate vs Magics 22%

So Westbrook has the ball WAY more often, yet averages HALF the number of assists.

Hence why we were looking at their assist to turnover ratio. Magics is nearly 3 to 1, Westbrooks is like 1.8 to 1, far far far lower.

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And I'm ignoring all the super obvious boneheaded plays he makes where he takes a horrific shot based on him being an idiot and turns the ball over without being credited with the turnover.

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Ast TO ratio is the best indicator. Westbrooks is awful.


Even with his own personal best on turnovers, Westbrick was 39th in the league for AST TO ratio.