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JonathanRhimes
09-27-2013, 03:35 PM
So I was somewhat surprised to see political/ethical opposition to porn in this section, and I'm interested if any of the arguments have substance beyond religious prohibitions.

On the porn-tolerant side (libertarian), we tend to champion self-ownership and the right to market your body however you like...athlete, musician, dancer, hand model, penthouse model, whatever. Same reason we don't want a war on drugs. No controls on what type of drugs you do, what type of diet you eat, and so on. For us, it's preferable to have greater freedom and some offended people kicking around.

In defending this position we would probably also point out that porn availability in an area is negatively correlated with sexual crime. Not everyone is getting laid, so porn is an outlet for sexual diversion that still involves consenting adults.

On the anti porn side, I sometimes hear the argument that acting in porn is depressing/degrading and that actors and actresses have a high suicide rate...but I personally don't really care about this that much: I think people should be free to do drugs and kill themselves, if that's what they choose. Rock stars do drugs and psychiatrists kill themselves at disproportionate rates, but nobody is so upset about those vocations much.

So what exactly is the case to be made? If you are anti porn, how do you go about persauding an undecided person that it should not be protected on 1st amendment basis? Genuinely curious about this, as I think some people do object for what they consider honest ethical reasons.

tk217
09-27-2013, 03:35 PM
Jesus.

ChristopherNV
09-27-2013, 03:43 PM
The dark side of porn is a result of condemnation. In societies where it's accepted you don't have the same negative issues.

cliffs: blame religion.

JonathanRhimes
09-27-2013, 03:43 PM
Addictive as drugs for a lot of guys. Took years out of my life. Only thing that finally got me free was prayer.

Ok, so I support your freedom to quit, but also have no objections to people taking addictive drugs. Cigarettes are supposed to be more addictive than heroin, and still legal.

Posthardcore
09-27-2013, 03:43 PM
Do you mean arguments against its prohibition by the state or against it morally?

JonathanRhimes
09-27-2013, 03:45 PM
Do you mean arguments against its prohibition by the state or against it morally?

Both

Spartan5364
09-27-2013, 03:48 PM
not many studies done looking into the long term effects of porn use.
Other studies suggesting it is very addictive.

Posthardcore
09-27-2013, 03:50 PM
Both

From a moral standpoint, you could say that it sends the wrong message to the kids and renders sex banal. It's hard to make a moral judgement about it since everyone has different values. I can see why some people would be against it; I'd have to really think about it to be sure about my stance but I don't think acting as a cum dumpster can be compared to ''selling your body'' through athletic means.

I don't think the government should encourage it, but I don't think it should be prohibited.

metroins
09-27-2013, 04:20 PM
Everybody has sex, everybody has genitalia.

I see nothing wrong with a sexual act, there is no moral issue in my eyes if both are consenting.

Bullroarer
09-27-2013, 04:21 PM
Addictive as drugs for a lot of guys. Can rewire your brain making you turned on by weird sh-t. ED for some. Took years out of my life. Only thing that finally got me free was prayer.

http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/understanding_porn_addiction

Strong everything. I'm still climbing out of the hole I dug myself with it.

Five horsemen of the apocalypse:
War, famine, pestilence, death, and widespread access to unlimited, weird fetish porn.

No7
09-27-2013, 04:22 PM
immunity to degeneration of porn masterrace checking in?

10 min of amateur a2m - blow big joocy loads every time

tk217
09-27-2013, 04:30 PM
Everybody has sex, everybody has genitalia.

I see nothing wrong with a sexual act, there is no moral issue in my eyes if both are consenting.

Well it isn't about consenting in porn - it is about making money.

JFizzle23
09-27-2013, 04:34 PM
Addictive as drugs for a lot of guys. Can rewire your brain making you turned on by weird sh-t. ED for some. Took years out of my life. Only thing that finally got me free was prayer.

http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/understanding_porn_addiction
http://www.somegif.com/gifs/13638791171078637024.GIF

You're brainwashed as fhck and wayyy too far gone to save. Porn taking years out of your life? I don't even...


immunity to degeneration of porn masterrace checking in?

10 min of amateur a2m - blow big joocy loads every time
fhcking in.

flairon
09-27-2013, 04:40 PM
in moderation its not bad, like most things. but if you overdo it, it can be detrimental

CLEAN_SET_OF_10
09-27-2013, 04:45 PM
Libertarian checking in.

Porn should be available but the education/awareness should be there to explain how bad it is for you if you abuse it.

Similar to cigarettes, alcohol, illicit drugs, etc.

kusok
09-27-2013, 04:49 PM
Came in with faint hope to see vids and pics. leaving disappoint.

Alchem
09-27-2013, 04:54 PM
Has negative psychological effects on you.

kusok
09-27-2013, 04:56 PM
Has negative psychological effects on you.


What if you watch porn with your female friend and get it on same time?

DerpHunter
09-27-2013, 04:58 PM
Well, first, maybe we should define what you mean by "porn," because there are all sorts of different kids. Some people consider sexual nude shots porn, while others do not.

It's people having sex or simply getting/being naked in front of a video camera or still camera, and then, letting other people see it. I think it's insane to tell people that they can watch other people having sex or being naked. That's exactly what you're doing if you say it should be illegal.




Addictive as drugs for a lot of guys. Can rewire your brain making you turned on by weird sh-t. ED for some. Took years out of my life. Only thing that finally got me free was prayer.

http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/understanding_porn_addiction

So, do you think drugs, alcohol, gambling, exercising, junk food, gaming, cigarettes and other things should be illegal? They can all be addicting.

metroins
09-27-2013, 05:08 PM
Well it isn't about consenting in porn - it is about making money.

Lol? Who cares if there's money involved?

I thought it was the fact they were broadcasting it, what's wrong with money exchanging?

DizzySmalls
09-27-2013, 05:27 PM
Everybody has sex, everybody has genitalia.

I see nothing wrong with a sexual act, there is no moral issue in my eyes if both are consenting.
This.

SigmundFreud
09-27-2013, 06:15 PM
Girls sexually abused as children are many times more likely to do porn
doing porn is an effect of child abuse

Can you really say the female is consenting if her consent is due to mental problem?

JFizzle23
09-27-2013, 06:17 PM
Girls sexually abused as children are many times more likely to do porn
doing porn is an effect of child abuse

Can you really say the female is consenting if her consent is due to mental problem?
Strong username to post content.

In all cerealness, not sheriff srs.

EDIT: To below post, he's definitely on that broscience time.

Posthardcore
09-27-2013, 06:19 PM
Girls sexually abused as children are many times more likely to do porn
doing porn is an effect of child abuse

Can you really say the female is consenting if her consent is due to mental problem?

You serious or you're on dat broscientist time?

DizzySmalls
09-27-2013, 06:21 PM
Girls sexually abused as children are many times more likely to do porn
doing porn is an effect of child abuse

Can you really say the female is consenting if her consent is due to mental problem?
Can anybody consent to anything then? Everyone is partially a product of their environment...

SigmundFreud
09-27-2013, 06:24 PM
Strong username to post content.

In all cerealness, not sheriff srs.

EDIT: To below post, he's definitely on that broscience time.


You serious or you're on dat broscientist time?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8916528?dopt=Abstract

RESULTS:
Early childhood abuse and/or neglect was a significant predictor of prostitution for females (odds ratio [OR] = 2.96). For females, sexual abuse (OR = 2.54) and neglect (OR = 2.58) were associated with prostitution, whereas physical abuse was only marginally associated. Childhood abuse and neglect were not associated with increased risk for promiscuity or teenage pregnancy.

CONCLUSIONS:
These findings strongly support a relationship between childhood victimization and subsequent prostitution. The presumed causal sequence between childhood victimization and teenage pregnancy may need to be reevaluated.

People underestimate the amount of children sexually abused in the US. For females it is 20-25%.


http://www.oneinfourusa.org/statistics.php
http://www.victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/child-sexual-abuse-statistics
https://www.apa.org/pi/families/resources/child-sexual-abuse.aspx

Some CDC research has estimated that approximately 1 in 6 boys and 1 in 4 girls are sexually abused before the age of 18.

Other governmental research has estimated that approximately 300,000 children are abused every year in the United States.

However, accurate statistics on the prevalence of sexual abuse of children and adolescents are difficult to collect because it is vastly underreported and there are differing definitions of what constitutes sexual abuse.

Boys (and later, men) tend not to report their victimization, which may affect statistics. Some men even feel societal pressure to be proud of early sexual activity regardless of whether it was unwanted.

Boys are more likely than girls to be abused outside of the family.

Most mental health and child protection professionals agree that child sexual abuse is not uncommon and is a serious problem in the United States.

Mr Beer
09-27-2013, 06:38 PM
Arguments against: "Because I want to tell adults what they can and cannot look at."

Phuck that noise.

Harbinger
09-27-2013, 06:49 PM
Are there any arguments against it from non religious people?

No7
09-27-2013, 06:50 PM
Girls sexually abused as children are many times more likely to do porn
doing porn is an effect of child abuse

Can you really say the female is consenting if her consent is due to mental problem?

are you saying that a woman who has been sexually abused can't consent to consensual sex?

Mr Beer
09-27-2013, 06:53 PM
Are there any arguments against it from non religious people?

I'm sure there are some no fap bro-scientists who're against it.

JFizzle23
09-27-2013, 07:04 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8916528?dopt=Abstract


People underestimate the amount of children sexually abused in the US. For females it is 20-25%.


http://www.oneinfourusa.org/statistics.php
http://www.victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/child-sexual-abuse-statistics
https://www.apa.org/pi/families/resources/child-sexual-abuse.aspx
I suppose you're right in a way. That's still taking a pretty big leap of faith to make that connection that they're not "truly" consenting because as Dizzy said, we've all had past events mold us in a certain way. So much involved in this.

Posthardcore
09-27-2013, 07:08 PM
I'm sure there are some no fap bro-scientists who're against it.

Many people are against it just because of how it portrays sex or because they value greatly intimacy. There's nothing wrong with that.

SigmundFreud
09-27-2013, 07:13 PM
are you saying that a woman who has been sexually abused can't consent to consensual sex?

There is a correlation between sexual abuse and doing porn. Not everyone that gets sexually abused does porn, but there are more porn stars that were sexually abused than not sexually abused.
Girls who were sexually abused also have a much higher chance of being promiscuous.

There is a correlation between smoking and cancer. Not everyone that smokes gets cancer, but there are more smokers with cancer than nonsmokers.

If someone says that promiscuity and doing porn are good/not bad then they have to admit that some of the effects of sexual abuse are good/not bad.

Harbinger
09-27-2013, 07:23 PM
I'm sure there are some no fap bro-scientists who're against it.
You were right.

tnel00
09-27-2013, 07:34 PM
I am pro porn

I like boobs

No7
09-27-2013, 08:10 PM
There is a correlation between sexual abuse and doing porn. Not everyone that gets sexually abused does porn, but there are more porn stars that were sexually abused than not sexually abused.
Girls who were sexually abused also have a much higher chance of being promiscuous.

There is a correlation between smoking and cancer. Not everyone that smokes gets cancer, but there are more smokers with cancer than nonsmokers.

If someone says that promiscuity and doing porn are good/not bad then they have to admit that some of the effects of sexual abuse are good/not bad.

so if the consensual sex is still consensual, what's your point


there are more porn stars that were sexually abused than not sexually abused.

also source on this? are you including amateur porn stars or just big name ones? i've made sex vids with a fair few exes, afaik none of them were sexually abused

you also know that prostitution is a different thing than porn right?

GreatOldOne
09-27-2013, 08:40 PM
Are there any arguments against it from non religious people?

I wouldn't say ethically...but there are some psychological risks depending on your level of consumption/involvement.

Basically...classical deconditioning to otherwise natural stimulating sexual scenarios is possible (development of fetishism, where you might not get turned on as much/at all by certain things). It's not rocket science.

Not always a problem obviously but something to be aware of and I know it's been studied and known to risk issues with relationships where people don't see eye-to-eye on the porn issue.

lol...I think a person is normally plenty capable of determining if they like porn or not and how much is good for them if at all. If they cannot determine this, I suppose they are already reading bible's instead of Hustler's anyway.

A-GAME
09-27-2013, 08:52 PM
It's undoubtedly bad for you. I still don't think it should be banned. The real question is where do we draw the line on what is acceptable? I am glad it's not my job deciding. It's a very hard decision indeed.

tallguy29
09-27-2013, 08:55 PM
I am a theist and there's nothing wrong in porn.
After all two consenting adults acting it out and getting filmed.
And when softporn, mainstream movies almost act them out, with "normal" folks watching them too. Big difference!

Robster81
09-27-2013, 08:56 PM
So for you anti porn people...should we get rid of strip bars and legalize prostitution?

tk217
09-27-2013, 08:59 PM
Lol? Who cares if there's money involved?

I thought it was the fact they were broadcasting it, what's wrong with money exchanging?

Everything, Comrade.

Bhavasita87
09-27-2013, 09:00 PM
Personally against it -- addicting, can desensitize people & make it harder for them to get turned on, can result in unrealistic or warped sexual perceptions & expectations. May contribute to men, i.e. your typical miscer, developing a view of women as sex objects.

Politically -- I don't give a chit what you watch.

fsuboy1411
09-27-2013, 09:05 PM
I am extremely skeptical about any type of movement or vocation in which Jews are disproportionately represented.

http://www.jewishquarterly.org/issuearchive/articled325.html?articleid=38

JonathanRhimes
09-28-2013, 08:07 AM
IMO it is extremely.inconsistent to have illegal prostitution but legal porn...as porn actors are paid to have sex...

Bushmaster
09-28-2013, 08:26 AM
Many people are against it just because of how it portrays sex or because they value greatly intimacy. There's nothing wrong with that.

Then all those people have to do is..... oh, I dunno... not watch it maybe?

metroins
09-28-2013, 08:29 AM
Everything, Comrade.

Can you explain what's wrong with exchanging money? Sex is natural and humans get turned on multiple times per day. Sex is not strictly for procreation, the senses used, pleasure, intimacy, connection, satisfaction and other things words can't describe are all parts of sex.

Exchanging money for sex is just two (hopefully) consenting adults engaging in an activity where each has a gain.

Almost all porn and prostitution should be legal. If a person develops a fetish or a relationship breaks up, well those parties were not compatible because of different tastes.

There is no moral issue in my eyes as long as both parties are happy.





If someone says that promiscuity and doing porn are good/not bad then they have to admit that some of the effects of sexual abuse are good/not bad.

This is a statement with no value, almost all acts can lead to a not bad outcome at any point.

If I punch you in the face, and you marry the nurse that treats you, well that was an outcome that wasn't bad. That doesn't mean I should randomly punch people in the face, nor condone doing so.

Nuclear war kills all people.... But also ends world hunger (no more people). Therefore good outcome?

What a weak argument.

Bushmaster
09-28-2013, 08:33 AM
IMO it is extremely.inconsistent to have illegal prostitution but legal porn...as porn actors are paid to have sex...

Technically, they are paid as "actors" and the porn they produce is legally considered "art" lol. I hear what you're saying, but this debate used to rage back in the 80's all the time. And IIRC it went all the way up to the supreme court where it was decided that porn was a freedom of expression and as such was protected under the 1st amendment.

GreatOldOne
09-28-2013, 08:35 AM
We probably would be better off with legalized prostitution all around and enforced health codes regarding STD prevention...at least from a public health standpoint where public health includes not maximizing the number of people with STD's.

DerpHunter
09-28-2013, 08:41 AM
If someone says that promiscuity and doing porn are good/not bad then they have to admit that some of the effects of sexual abuse are good/not bad.

Da fck?

Posthardcore
09-28-2013, 09:11 AM
Then all those people have to do is..... oh, I dunno... not watch it maybe?

Yes.

metroins
09-28-2013, 09:17 AM
We probably would be better off with legalized prostitution all around and enforced health codes regarding STD prevention...at least from a public health standpoint where public health includes not maximizing the number of people with STD's.

This.

SigmundFreud
09-28-2013, 01:53 PM
This is a statement with no value, almost all acts can lead to a not bad outcome at any point.

If I punch you in the face, and you marry the nurse that treats you, well that was an outcome that wasn't bad. That doesn't mean I should randomly punch people in the face, nor condone doing so.

Nuclear war kills all people.... But also ends world hunger (no more people). Therefore good outcome?

What a weak argument.

Well I guess we should tell kids that smoking is ok because there are lots of things that can cause cancer.

IDrinkBloodLOL
09-28-2013, 02:33 PM
My argument is that arguments about it (and arguments about its effects and whether or not it really causes those effects) are irrelevant to my individual desire to see it all banned.

I want it gone because I have an ideal in my head of how things are "supposed to be," and that ideal does not include any women debasing themselves and acting like whores - and for that matter it also doesn't include beta neckbeards sitting in their houses masturbating all day to internet porn.

I oppose pornography because I see it as an inherently ugly thing. I don't care what its alleged negative effects may or may not be, and similarly I don't care if it might actually have some benefits (i.e. allegedly boosting testosterone a bit).

These are unimportant to me because it's not part of how I believe the world is supposed to be, just like how incompetence, disloyalty and famine aren't part of that ideal world either.

Thus, I hate it and will always oppose it, others' arguments be damned.

flairon
09-28-2013, 02:44 PM
We probably would be better off with legalized prostitution all around and enforced health codes regarding STD prevention...at least from a public health standpoint where public health includes not maximizing the number of people with STD's.

I like the way you think. Hookers for everybody!

BigAndJuicy
09-28-2013, 02:50 PM
Has negative psychological effects on you.

yes, but it is your choice when it comes to educating and subjecting yourself to these effects. many people watch porn occasionally and enjoy it, it is immoral to restrict their choices because of a decision you made

illriginalized
09-28-2013, 03:21 PM
I challenge everyone to no fap for 1 month.

Guarantee your aggression in the gym will sky rocket. More aggression = more strength/endurance/power

In the sport of boxing it's preferable that the athletes do not ejaculate (fap/sexual relations) 1 month prior to their big fight.

Harbinger
09-28-2013, 03:23 PM
I challenge everyone to no fap for 1 month.

Guarantee your aggression in the gym will sky rocket. More aggression = more strength/endurance/power

In the sport of boxing it's preferable that the athletes do not ejaculate (fap/sexual relations) 1 month prior to their big fight.


http://memecrunch.com/meme/D8WD/no-thanks-jeff/image.png

Posthardcore
09-28-2013, 03:54 PM
I challenge everyone to no fap for 1 month.

Guarantee your aggression in the gym will sky rocket. More aggression = more strength/endurance/power

In the sport of boxing it's preferable that the athletes do not ejaculate (fap/sexual relations) 1 month prior to their big fight.

You mean in the sport of Broxing? :D

Mr Beer
09-28-2013, 03:56 PM
IMO it is extremely.inconsistent to have illegal prostitution but legal porn...as porn actors are paid to have sex...

Yes, but prostitution should be legal, in fact it is in most civilised nations.

illriginalized
09-28-2013, 04:03 PM
You mean in the sport of Broxing? :D

If you're insinuating broscience... then you have a lot of discovering to do with the sport. Aggression plays a major role in sports in general.. ejaculating makes you into a soft vulnerable bitch.

Just sayin'

No7
09-28-2013, 04:05 PM
Well I guess we should tell kids that smoking is ok because there are lots of things that can cause cancer.

congratulations you literally missed the entire point of metroin's post


If you're insinuating broscience... then you have a lot of discovering to do with the sport. Aggression plays a major role in sports in general.. ejaculating makes you into a soft vulnerable bitch.

Just sayin'

i (try to) bang my gf every other night and fit in a cheeky wank whenever she's out then go out on a saturday afternoon and bash kunts in 1st grade rugby

wat do?

Posthardcore
09-28-2013, 04:27 PM
If you're insinuating broscience... then you have a lot of discovering to do with the sport. Aggression plays a major role in sports in general.. ejaculating makes you into a soft vulnerable bitch.

Just sayin'

Well, that's good to know.