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View Full Version : Whats a good macronutrient ratio to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time



malbrecht2
09-22-2013, 09:34 PM
I'm wondering whats a good macro ratio to Gain Muscle and lose fat all at the same time. And was wondering what you think of my current Macros.. Im around a 40 Protein, 40 Carbs, 20 Fats Ratio. I have dropped my carbs a bit recently. Im taking in around 2500-2600 calories a day. Im 6'2-6'3. Ive been on a cut for about 3 months and have lost some serious weight but at the same time trying to get shredded for mens physique. My diet has been the 40,40,20 to basically lose fat after my bulk. I was about 200lbs now currently 180. I have lost some size, I went from a 33 waist to a 30 now.. but I am getting shredded. But was wondering about my macros and calories. i train hard but diet is key. So Im just wondering your thoughts about my macros and calorie intake below is a current picture of where I'm at to give an overall better view.

tara19
09-22-2013, 10:22 PM
Gaining weight = caloric surplus
Losing weight = caloric deficit

Think about that.

Chango99
09-22-2013, 10:54 PM
impossibru

ArchangelEST
09-23-2013, 01:14 AM
I'm wondering whats a good macro ratio to Gain Muscle and lose fat all at the same time. And was wondering what you think of my current Macros.. Im around a 40 Protein, 40 Carbs, 20 Fats Ratio. I have dropped my carbs a bit recently. Im taking in around 2500-2600 calories a day. Im 6'2-6'3. Ive been on a cut for about 3 months and have lost some serious weight but at the same time trying to get shredded for mens physique. My diet has been the 40,40,20 to basically lose fat after my bulk. I was about 200lbs now currently 180. I have lost some size, I went from a 33 waist to a 30 now.. but I am getting shredded. But was wondering about my macros and calories. i train hard but diet is key. So Im just wondering your thoughts about my macros and calorie intake below is a current picture of where I'm at to give an overall better view.

Increase fats a little, lower carbs - that would be a general recommendation. Experiment with carb types and timings to make sure you get maximum performance in the gym. But you need decent amounts of fats to keep your hormones blasting at full power. You may have enough, but a little extra might be a good idea. Protein is fine. Excessive actually, but fine. If you feel you cannot cope with lowering carbs anymore, you can probably do fine with cutting 50g of protein as-well.

So in practice you have plenty of options, but in truth, there is no guaranteed way to get what you want.


Gaining muscle = caloric surplus
Losing weight = caloric deficit

Think about that.

Ain't as black and white as that. Gaining muscle on a caloric deficit is possible, though it requires specific conditions usually.


impossibru

Doable. But not by anyone, requires fairly specific circumstances.

tara19
09-23-2013, 01:19 AM
Ain't as black and white as that. Gaining muscle on a caloric deficit is possible, though it requires specific conditions usually.


Is it possible? Yes.
Extremely tedious and hard to achieve? Yes.

ArchangelEST
09-23-2013, 01:54 AM
Is it possible? Yes.
Extremely tedious and hard to achieve? Yes.

Well, there are people who are willing to go through the trouble. Granted, most people are better off not giving these things a second thought... but the OP is looking to compete, so he is probably interested in all the details. :)

WillEsteem
09-23-2013, 02:43 AM
Gaining muscle = caloric surplus


Think about that.

Really? Like i'm not sure if serious.

InItForFitness
09-23-2013, 04:06 AM
Well, there are people who are willing to go through the trouble. Granted, most people are better off not giving these things a second thought... but the OP is looking to compete, so he is probably interested in all the details. :)

Based on the time it would take to even attempt a successful recomp, do you feel like the benefits outweigh the risks?
Honestly just curious, even if OP did fall under "optimal" circumstances for this, would he not benefit more from a traditional bulk/cut cycle?

I've never really seen anyone who's actually attempted and succeeded with recomping so I don't know the results over time in comparison to a traditional bulk/cut cycle.

WillEsteem
09-23-2013, 06:14 AM
If this guy is re comping for a non natty BB competition, 100% doable, natty would take a long time though.

BDeblo
09-23-2013, 06:18 AM
Roughly 40-30-30 ratio

That's prayer: luck: genetics

tara19
09-23-2013, 07:08 AM
Really? Like i'm not sure if serious.

Eh bad choice of words.
Gaining weight = caloric surplus.

Whether it's fat or muscle depends on training etc etc.

Mr.Cooper69
09-24-2013, 01:06 AM
Is it possible? Yes.
Extremely tedious and hard to achieve? Yes.

Holy **** this is so overblown. It's not extremely tedious and hard to achieve. This is actually what most people do year-round

ArchangelEST
09-24-2013, 01:28 AM
Based on the time it would take to even attempt a successful recomp, do you feel like the benefits outweigh the risks?
Honestly just curious, even if OP did fall under "optimal" circumstances for this, would he not benefit more from a traditional bulk/cut cycle?

I've never really seen anyone who's actually attempted and succeeded with recomping so I don't know the results over time in comparison to a traditional bulk/cut cycle.

I've kinda recomped. Went on a diet this January, lasted till mid June, lost about 7kg(15lb) total weight, but also gained a little muscle mass. Basically I lost almost 10cm (4") off my waist, while biceps size increased by 0.5cm, chest +2cm and rest of the measurements remained the same.

It's hard to say which method is more optimal really. Personally I see benefits for both. In general, recomping takes more patience as the changes are much more gradual and that can be demotivating for some people. Also as the diet/exercise is more consistently similar as-well, again - you may start to feel bored, lack the motivation to carry on. It's easy to diet for a few months and then bulk for a few. Rapid changes in the physique keep you more interested and the short term dieting/training regiments are better tolerated as-well.

Also, the problem with the traditional bulk/cut cycle can be the extreme fluctuations in water weight/glycogen/food mass etc. So basically it will be hard to gauge actual progress as you'll be naturally more "flabby" during the bulk and more "lean" during the cut period, even without actual noticeable changes in muscle/fat mass. With a recomp approach where you'll remain near the same bodyweight, the progress you'll see is more accurate in a way.

Mrpb
09-24-2013, 01:36 AM
Holy **** this is so overblown. It's not extremely tedious and hard to achieve. This is actually what most people do year-round

Are you saying most people are trying to gain muscle on a caloric deficit?

ArchangelEST
09-24-2013, 01:50 AM
Are you saying most people are trying to gain muscle on a caloric deficit?

Well... you can't deny that the majority of people who come here are all looking for advice on how to lose weight. As beginners, they will almost always also increase their muscle mass to some degree if they lift properly. Now, once they have lost enough weight, they might want to think about bulking. Except most ex-fatties are scared of a proper bulk, so they often tend to hover around maintenance or try to keep a small deficit to avoid getting fat again.

Actually, now that I think about it, most people never get lean enough to the point they are satisfied, so they keep dieting on and off for years, basically on an endless recomp - the problem being that they are not following a proper plan and just spin their wheels more often than not. They make progress, but it's usually not that great, though there are exceptions of-course.

Recomping properly really needs a very solid lifting approach and good consistency and planning when it comes to nutrition. Just "winging it" tends to produce poor results.

Mrpb
09-24-2013, 04:46 AM
I agree with what you're saying ArchangelEST, in this case however the OP looks like he is an advanced lifter with low body fat.

In my opinion he's the last person that should be trying to gain muscle mass on a caloric deficit.

As Lyle McDonald also points out in his articles:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-mistakes.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

InItForFitness
09-24-2013, 07:44 AM
I've kinda recomped. Went on a diet this January, lasted till mid June, lost about 7kg(15lb) total weight, but also gained a little muscle mass. Basically I lost almost 10cm (4") off my waist, while biceps size increased by 0.5cm, chest +2cm and rest of the measurements remained the same.

It's hard to say which method is more optimal really. Personally I see benefits for both. In general, recomping takes more patience as the changes are much more gradual and that can be demotivating for some people. Also as the diet/exercise is more consistently similar as-well, again - you may start to feel bored, lack the motivation to carry on. It's easy to diet for a few months and then bulk for a few. Rapid changes in the physique keep you more interested and the short term dieting/training regiments are better tolerated as-well.

Also, the problem with the traditional bulk/cut cycle can be the extreme fluctuations in water weight/glycogen/food mass etc. So basically it will be hard to gauge actual progress as you'll be naturally more "flabby" during the bulk and more "lean" during the cut period, even without actual noticeable changes in muscle/fat mass. With a recomp approach where you'll remain near the same bodyweight, the progress you'll see is more accurate in a way.

Very interesting.
Especially in regards to accuracy of weight fluctuations/progress.
Probably won't ever have the patience for attempting a successful recomp...but the idea is intriguing lol

Alcatraz84
09-24-2013, 07:49 AM
Holy **** this is so overblown. It's not extremely tedious and hard to achieve. This is actually what most people do year-round

Elaborate? Most people either focus on gaining muscle, or losing fat, or they attempt to do both and spin their wheels/make very slow progress (hence "tedious"), the exception being new lifters, which obviously doesn't apply to the OP.

What is the method that this majority of people use to recomp year round? I'm genuinely interested.

Mr.Cooper69
09-24-2013, 03:52 PM
Are you saying most people are trying to gain muscle on a caloric deficit?

No. Most recreational lifters do not track calories, estimate TDEE, etc. They eat at roughly maintenance with small weight fluctuations over the course of a year, usually seasonally related. However, in maintaining their exercise regimen, they usually maintain a healthy bodyfat level while adding muscle mass. A very small minority of individuals are tracking and weighing everything they eat, setting macro goals for the day, and following super-regimented training routines. While I agree that the latter group of individuals will see greater progress, the results for all that extra effort are surprisingly small, relatively speaking, when you compare the two populations. Which goes to show that consistency is key. Unfortunately, many members of this forum have psychosomatically damaged their ability to limit portions and sense fullness like healthy human beings, but that's a different story.

If you ask a non-beginner, say 2 years of lifting, what their goals are...we're talking your average recreational guy in the weight room, it's usually an improvement in body composition. It's actually the beginners IMO (skinny -> only goal is gain muscle; fat -> only goal is lose weight) who more often take a uni-dimensional approach.

In my observations, "wheel spinning" is a phenomenon more related to under-eating or using an inappropriate macronutrient balance that results in no major changes in strength over several months (plus a non-periodized training regimen). If you eat at barely above maintenance calories over the course of the week, allowing natural fluctuations in caloric intake to occur (in healthy individuals), you stand to gain a few lbs of LBM a year while losing fat if you're on a decent training program. Another key thing about the recreational, not overly anal lifter is that they know when to take rest from training; many "educated" people here do not (I can't miss a training session bro!) and it ends up biting them in the butt. The whole system is built on balance, ultimately, and that balance is not just caloric in nature.