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View Full Version : The Trial of Mohammed - defence attorney CXC3000, please respond



boseador
09-22-2013, 06:45 AM
You accepted to debate me on any topic regarding Islam. I choose to discuss Mohammed's raids on innocent people and his looting them.

I accuse Mohammed of being a thief, a highway robber and a looter. If you agree that Mohammed is guilty of committing these crimes, then there is no need to go on with this. If, however, you do not agree, then I'll make an opening statement and prove that Mohammed was indeed a thief, a highway robber and a looter.

Please respond.

PS: If you don't want to respond and feel like you cannot stand up for the defendant, let me know, I'll ask a Mod to delete this thread.

TheNarrative
09-22-2013, 06:48 AM
innnnnnnnnnn

tk217
09-22-2013, 06:52 AM
You can't stop crazy, bro.

Neceseco
09-22-2013, 06:53 AM
Inb4 the robbed ones were insulting islam.

Harbinger
09-22-2013, 06:56 AM
What's a "Deffence atourny"?

tk217
09-22-2013, 07:00 AM
What's a "Deffence atourny"?

You going to be a vampire this Halloween?

CXC3000
09-22-2013, 07:01 AM
OP, you may begin.

Harbinger
09-22-2013, 07:02 AM
You going to be a vampire this Halloween?

I still don't get it :(

boseador
09-22-2013, 07:11 AM
What's a "Deffence atourny"?

fuk I don't know, I meant "defence attorney"

How do you edit a thread title? Can a mod fix it?

boseador
09-22-2013, 08:32 AM
When Muslims loot and pillage it is not prohibited when the victims are non-Muslims. The act of looting and pillaging unbelievers has been divinely sanctioned.


Volume 1, Book 7, Number 331 :
Narrated by Jabir bin 'Abdullah
The Prophet said, "I have been given five things which were not given to any one else before me. 1. Allah made me victorious by awe, (by His frightening my enemies) for a distance of one month's journey. 2. The earth has been made for me (and for my followers) a place for praying and a thing to perform Tayammum, therefore anyone of my followers can pray wherever the time of a prayer is due. 3. The booty has been made Halal (lawful) for me yet it was not lawful for anyone else before me. 4. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection). 5. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation only but I have been sent to all mankind.
http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_1_07.php

According to Mohammed, looting was forbidden before him, but then Allah gave Mohammed a special privilege and made looting lawful for Muslims. How convenient... Also, Mohammed owns 20% of the booty. Mohammed would always take 20% for himself then divide the rest among the criminals that took part in the crime.

Here are some of the verses in the Quran on booty (from caravan raids and offensive wars, etc.):

(Q9:103) Take of their riches a donation to purify them and to cleanse them thereby; and pray for them; surely your prayer is sereneness (i.e., tranquility) for them; and Allah is Ever-Hearing, Ever-Knowing.

This verse was revealed when some Muslims stayed at home and did not take part in the battle of Tabuk. So Mohammed took a third of their wealth for not taking part in the battle.

(Q8:1) They ask thee (O Muhammad) of the spoils of war. Say: The spoils of war belong to Allah and the messenger, so keep your duty to Allah, and adjust the matter of your difference, and obey Allah and His messenger, if ye are (true) believers.

(Q8:41) And know that whatever of war-booty that you may gain, verily one-fifth (1/5th) of it is assigned to Allah, and to the Messenger, and to the near relatives [of the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)], (and also) the orphans, Al-Masakin (the poor) and the wayfarer

(Q4:94) There are much more profits and booties with Allah.

(Q49:10) And much war booty which they will take. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.

(Q4:94) O you who believe! When you go (to fight) in the Cause of Allah, verify (the truth), and say not to anyone who greets you (by embracing Islam): "You are not a believer"; seeking the perishable goods of the worldly life. There are much more profits and booties with Allah. Even as he is now, so were you yourselves before till Allah conferred on you His Favours (i.e. guided you to Islam), therefore, be cautious in discrimination. Allah is Ever Well-Aware of what you do.

This verse was invented by Mohammed because some Muslims passed by a man that was tending his sheep, they killed him and took the sheep and his property without verifying whether he was a Muslim or not. Hence why Mohammed tells them in this verse (4:94), that they should find out first whether the people they are going to loot and kill are Muslims or not. Looting and plundering is fighting in the cause of Allah, and Allah promises the Muslims many acquisitions. As you can see this is how Mohammed and his followers earned their living, by killing innocent people and taking their property.
http://www.quran4u.com/Tafsir%20Ibn%20Kathir/004%20Nisa.htm

The war booty also included women and children that would end up being slaves or sex slaves. The attacks were usually by surprise...


Ibn 'Aun reported: I wrote to Nafi' inquiring from him whether it was necessary to extend (to the disbelievers) an invitation to accept (Islam) before meeting them in fight. He wrote (in reply) to me that it was necessary in the early days of Islam. The Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others. On that very day, he captured Juwairiya bint al-Harith. Nafi' said that this tradition was related to him by Abdullah b. Umar who (himself) was among the raiding troops.
http://www.sahihmuslim.com/sps/smm/sahihmuslim.cfm?scn=dsphadeeth&HadeethID=4292&txt=o%20me%20that%20it%20was%20necessary%20in%20th e

When the Quran say kill those who fight you, it is referring to those who defend themselves such as in the above situation. People were attacked by surprise and those that fought to defend themselves and family were killed. Those that surrendered were taken prisoners and sold as slaves.

The above gives you an idea of the type of people that were attracted to Islam, mainly thugs and criminals. They liked the idea of divinely authorised looting and pillaging, attacking innocent people by surprise and taking their property, women and children as sex slaves.


Volume 4, Book 53, Number 370 :
Narrated by Abu Qatada
We set out in the company of Allah's Apostle on the day (of the battle) of Hunain. When we faced the enemy, the Muslims retreated and I saw a pagan throwing himself over a Muslim. I turned around and came upon him from behind and hit him on the shoulder with the sword He (i.e. the pagan) came towards me and seized me so violently that I felt as if it were death itself, but death overtook him and he released me. I followed 'Umar bin Al Khattab and asked (him), "What is wrong with the people (fleeing)?" He replied, "This is the Will of Allah," After the people returned, the Prophet sat and said, "Anyone who has killed an enemy and has a proof of that, will posses his spoils." I got up and said, "Who will be a witness for me?"
http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_4_53.php

I ask Muslims: is this the perfect example of a man to follow? Is this the way a honourable leader would make his community grow? By attacking innocent people by surprise and looting them and taking their women and children slaves? Why didn't Allah teach Mohammed to pursue more ethical ways to grow economically, such as through agriculture, commerce, industry, etc? The only explanation is that Mohammed was appealing to the criminals and thugs he had around him. There is no way this man was inspired by an all loving God.

The above is enough evidence to make the defendant guilty of the charges put forward in the OP.

tk217
09-22-2013, 08:59 AM
I still don't get it :(

The eye color.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/dark_angel133/blood-thirsty-vampire-kfym4_zps07009838.jpg

TheNarrative
09-22-2013, 09:27 AM
fuk I don't know, I meant "defence attorney"

How do you edit a thread title? Can a mod fix it?

Pretty sure you just edit the OP, brah.

You can edit the post as well as the thread title.

ZioBot
09-22-2013, 09:55 AM
When Muslims loot and pillage it is not prohibited when the victims are non-Muslims. The act of looting and pillaging unbelievers has been divinely sanctioned.


http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_1_07.php

According to Mohammed, looting was forbidden before him, but then Allah gave Mohammed a special privilege and made looting lawful for Muslims. How convenient... Also, Mohammed owns 20% of the booty. Mohammed would always take 20% for himself then divide the rest among the criminals that took part in the crime.

Here are some of the verses in the Quran on booty (from caravan raids and offensive wars, etc.):

(Q9:103) Take of their riches a donation to purify them and to cleanse them thereby; and pray for them; surely your prayer is sereneness (i.e., tranquility) for them; and Allah is Ever-Hearing, Ever-Knowing.

This verse was revealed when some Muslims stayed at home and did not take part in the battle of Tabuk. So Mohammed took a third of their wealth for not taking part in the battle.

(Q8:1) They ask thee (O Muhammad) of the spoils of war. Say: The spoils of war belong to Allah and the messenger, so keep your duty to Allah, and adjust the matter of your difference, and obey Allah and His messenger, if ye are (true) believers.

(Q8:41) And know that whatever of war-booty that you may gain, verily one-fifth (1/5th) of it is assigned to Allah, and to the Messenger, and to the near relatives [of the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)], (and also) the orphans, Al-Masakin (the poor) and the wayfarer

(Q4:94) There are much more profits and booties with Allah.

(Q49:10) And much war booty which they will take. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.

(Q4:94) O you who believe! When you go (to fight) in the Cause of Allah, verify (the truth), and say not to anyone who greets you (by embracing Islam): "You are not a believer"; seeking the perishable goods of the worldly life. There are much more profits and booties with Allah. Even as he is now, so were you yourselves before till Allah conferred on you His Favours (i.e. guided you to Islam), therefore, be cautious in discrimination. Allah is Ever Well-Aware of what you do.

This verse was invented by Mohammed because some Muslims passed by a man that was tending his sheep, they killed him and took the sheep and his property without verifying whether he was a Muslim or not. Hence why Mohammed tells them in this verse (4:94), that they should find out first whether the people they are going to loot and kill are Muslims or not. Looting and plundering is fighting in the cause of Allah, and Allah promises the Muslims many acquisitions. As you can see this is how Mohammed and his followers earned their living, by killing innocent people and taking their property.
http://www.quran4u.com/Tafsir%20Ibn%20Kathir/004%20Nisa.htm

The war booty also included women and children that would end up being slaves or sex slaves. The attacks were usually by surprise...


http://www.sahihmuslim.com/sps/smm/sahihmuslim.cfm?scn=dsphadeeth&HadeethID=4292&txt=o%20me%20that%20it%20was%20necessary%20in%20th e

When the Quran say kill those who fight you, it is referring to those who defend themselves such as in the above situation. People were attacked by surprise and those that fought to defend themselves and family were killed. Those that surrendered were taken prisoners and sold as slaves.

The above gives you an idea of the type of people that were attracted to Islam, mainly thugs and criminals. They liked the idea of divinely authorised looting and pillaging, attacking innocent people by surprise and taking their property, women and children as sex slaves.


http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_4_53.php

I ask Muslims: is this the perfect example of a man to follow? Is this the way a honourable leader would make his community grow? By attacking innocent people by surprise and looting them and taking their women and children slaves? Why didn't Allah teach Mohammed to pursue more ethical ways to grow economically, such as through agriculture, commerce, industry, etc? The only explanation is that Mohammed was appealing to the criminals and thugs he had around him. There is no way this man was inspired by an all loving God.

The above is enough evidence to make the defendant guilty of the charges put forward in the OP.in4 response.

CXC3000
09-22-2013, 11:00 AM
When Muslims loot and pillage it is not prohibited when the victims are non-Muslims. The act of looting and pillaging unbelievers has been divinely sanctioned.

Er, non-Muslims in this sense usually means those who are trying to kill you.

Sheesh ! - how dumb are you ?


According to Mohammed, looting was forbidden before him, but then Allah gave Mohammed a special privilege and made looting lawful for Muslims. How convenient... Also, Mohammed owns 20% of the booty. Mohammed would always take 20% for himself then divide the rest among the criminals that took part in the crime.

Lol @ the word 'looting'. It's called war booty. If you attack Muslims because they're asking others to worship the One Creator, then try not to shed any tears when your belongings somehow disappear.


Here are some of the verses in the Quran on booty (from caravan raids and offensive wars, etc.):

(Q9:103) Take of their riches a donation to purify them and to cleanse them thereby; and pray for them; surely your prayer is sereneness (i.e., tranquility) for them; and Allah is Ever-Hearing, Ever-Knowing.

This verse was revealed when some Muslims stayed at home and did not take part in the battle of Tabuk. So Mohammed took a third of their wealth for not taking part in the battle.

(Q8:1) They ask thee (O Muhammad) of the spoils of war. Say: The spoils of war belong to Allah and the messenger, so keep your duty to Allah, and adjust the matter of your difference, and obey Allah and His messenger, if ye are (true) believers.

(Q8:41) And know that whatever of war-booty that you may gain, verily one-fifth (1/5th) of it is assigned to Allah, and to the Messenger, and to the near relatives [of the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)], (and also) the orphans, Al-Masakin (the poor) and the wayfarer

(Q4:94) There are much more profits and booties with Allah.

(Q49:10) And much war booty which they will take. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.

(Q4:94) O you who believe! When you go (to fight) in the Cause of Allah, verify (the truth), and say not to anyone who greets you (by embracing Islam): "You are not a believer"; seeking the perishable goods of the worldly life. There are much more profits and booties with Allah. Even as he is now, so were you yourselves before till Allah conferred on you His Favours (i.e. guided you to Islam), therefore, be cautious in discrimination. Allah is Ever Well-Aware of what you do.

This verse was invented by Mohammed because some Muslims passed by a man that was tending his sheep, they killed him and took the sheep and his property without verifying whether he was a Muslim or not.

It makes sense to find out who's trying to kill you and your family.


The war booty also included women and children that would end up being slaves or sex slaves. The attacks were usually by surprise...

That's how you win against the anti-Muslims who are trying to kill you.


When the Quran say kill those who fight you, it is referring to those who defend themselves such as in the above situation.

You mentioned the tribe of Banu Mustaliq. Funnily enough, they were allied to the anti-Muslim Pagan Arabs who were intent on wiping out the Muslims. And then you're surprised when the latter decides to make sure they don't engage in that murderous action.


The above gives you an idea of the type of people that were attracted to Islam, mainly thugs and criminals.

Yes, those Muslim men, women and children who were being starved, tortured and killed by the Pagan Arabs (and their allies). How dare they defend themselves.


I ask Muslims: is this the perfect example of a man to follow? Is this the way a honourable leader would make his community grow? By attacking innocent people by surprise and looting them and taking their women and children slaves? Why didn't Allah teach Mohammed to pursue more ethical ways to grow economically, such as through agriculture, commerce, industry, etc? The only explanation is that Mohammed was appealing to the criminals and thugs he had around him. There is no way this man was inspired by an all loving God.

The above is enough evidence to make the defendant guilty of the charges put forward in the OP.

Why do you keep referring to those who were killing Muslim men, women, and children as innocents ?

You're messed, man. Seriously.

boseador
09-22-2013, 11:19 AM
CXC3000, I presented evidence for my claims and all you have done is deny. Where is the evidence for what you say? Are we supposed to believe you just because you say so? Prove your points with hadith and Quran or whatever other evidence you have. You have done nothing to refute my claim that Mohammed was a thief, a highway robber and a looter.

ZioBot
09-22-2013, 11:51 AM
Er, non-Muslims in this sense usually means those who are trying to kill you.

Sheesh ! - how dumb are you ?



Lol @ the word 'looting'. It's called war booty. If you attack Muslims because they're asking others to worship the One Creator, then try not to shed any tears when your belongings somehow disappear.



It makes sense to find out who's trying to kill you and your family.



That's how you win against the anti-Muslims who are trying to kill you.



You mentioned the tribe of Banu Mustaliq. Funnily enough, they were allied to the anti-Muslim Pagan Arabs who were intent on wiping out the Muslims. And then you're surprised when the latter decides to make sure they don't engage in that murderous action.



Yes, those Muslim men, women and children who were being starved, tortured and killed by the Pagan Arabs (and their allies). How dare they defend themselves.



Why do you keep referring to those who were killing Muslim men, women, and children as innocents ?

You're messed, man. Seriously.you may want to look up the meaning of debate before agreeing to partake in one. please don't think i'm being biased, but you're clearly losing this round. i think you should start again, if boseador doesn't mind? we'll just chalk this one up to a misunderstanding but no more chances though.

CXC3000
09-22-2013, 11:56 AM
CXC3000, I presented evidence for my claims and all you have done is deny. Where is the evidence for what you say? Are we supposed to believe you just because you say so? Prove your points with hadith and Quran or whatever other evidence you have. You have done nothing to refute my claim that Mohammed was a thief, a highway robber and a looter.

The only evidence you've given are Verses from the Quran and the Hadith. The rest has been your rather ignorant interpretation (and out of context) opinions.


you may want to look up the meaning of debate before agreeing to partake in one. please don't think i'm being biased, but you're clearly losing this round. i think you should start again, if boseador doesn't mind? we'll just chalk this one up to a misunderstanding but no more chances though.

Thanks ZB, but I'm quite happy with my responses :)

boseador
09-22-2013, 11:57 AM
you may want to look up the meaning of debate before agreeing to partake in one. please don't think i'm being biased, but you're clearly losing this round. i think you should start again, if boseador doesn't mind? we'll just chalk this one up to a misunderstanding but no more chances though.

I agree.

Also, he stated that he would only debate me if I promised not to insult or demean him...

He responds to the debate by saying: "Sheesh ! - how dumb are you ?", followed by a collage of unsupported claims and denial.

Bhavasita87
09-22-2013, 11:59 AM
The only evidence you've given are Verses from the Quran and the Hadith. The rest has been your rather ignorant interpretation (and out of context) opinions.


You just assumed that it was referring to non-Muslims who were trying to kill them. Where is your evidence for this?

ZioBot
09-22-2013, 12:00 PM
I agree.

Also, he stated that he would only debate me if I promised not to insult or demean him...

He responds to the debate by saying: "Sheesh ! - how dumb are you ?", followed by a collage of unsupported claims and denial.its true CXC, no more insults.

come on we want to see a fair fight.


The only evidence you've given are Verses from the Quran and the Hadith. The rest has been your rather ignorant interpretation (and out of context) opinions.

ok, then explain the correct context citing stuff like references and evidence.

lets go.

CXC3000
09-22-2013, 12:01 PM
I agree.

Also, he stated that he would only debate me if I promised not to insult or demean him...

He responds to the debate by saying: "Sheesh ! - how dumb are you ?", followed by a collage of unsupported claims and denial.

How can I accept your interpretation of events ? i.e. one who is vehemently opposed to the Faith at every given turn and does all he can to discredit the Belief ?

Even when you're clearly in the wrong ?


ok, then explain the correct context citing stuff like references and evidence.

lets go.

boseador makes out that the Messenger and the Companions 'just killed anyone and everyone without any reason whatsoever'. If someone's got that kind of thought stuck in their head, what hope is there trying to explain that that isn't the case ?


You just assumed that it was referring to non-Muslims who were trying to kill them. Where is your evidence for this?

Read up on the history of Islam in the early days/years and how the anti-Muslim Pagan Arabs were trying to annihilate them at every opportunity.

Neceseco
09-22-2013, 12:03 PM
Ahahahah, "they're asking others to worship the One Creator" = they impose to others their rules. And you do not find it fascist. Alright, alright. You know that the exact same thing could be said about the mafia, right?

They propose to you their "agreement", if you accept it's ok, you pay, they're the bosses and that's it. If you do not accept you get killed.

And this is ok with you.

http://cl.ly/image/1H1J1B472v2e/Schermata%2009-2456558%20alle%2020.59.42.png

boseador
09-22-2013, 12:06 PM
The only evidence you've given are Verses from the Quran and the Hadith. The rest has been your rather ignorant interpretation (and out of context) opinions.



Thanks ZB, but I'm quite happy with my responses :)

Are you suggesting that there are sources superior to the Quran and Hadith?

You have refuted nothing brah. All you have done is proven how Islam has damaged your brain, hence why it is incapable of rational thought. You posted nothing worth responding to, nothing intelligent or challenging. This shows your mental bankruptcy. Why would I waste time debating someone of your calibre?

I will respond to your post for the sake of the readers (if there are any), and to expose the evil cult of Mohammed, Islam.

EDIT: it looks like there are a few interested readers.

CXC3000
09-22-2013, 12:07 PM
Ahahahah, "they're asking others to worship the One Creator" = they impose to others their rules. And you do not find it fascist. Alright, alright. You know that the exact same thing could be said about the mafia, right?

They propose to you their "agreement", if you accept it's ok, you pay, they're the bosses and that's it. If you do not accept you get killed.

And this is ok with you.

The Lord asked the Muslims to spread the Message of His Oneness.

What's wrong with that ?


Are you suggesting that there are sources superior to the Quran and Hadith?

You have refuted nothing brah. All you have done is proven how Islam has damaged your brain, hence why it is incapable of rational thought. You posted nothing worth responding to, nothing intelligent or challenging. This shows your mental bankruptcy. Why would I waste time debating someone of your calibre?

It's up to you, but I think you'll have a very hard time in convincing me your version of Islam is the correct one.

ZioBot
09-22-2013, 12:08 PM
boseador makes out that the Messenger and the Companions 'just killed anyone and everyone without any reason whatsoever'. If someone's got that kind of thought stuck in their head, what hope is there trying to explain that that isn't the case ?
don't come crying to me :D this is a debate, talk to him! you sound like you're quitting already? please tell me this isn't so!

CXC3000
09-22-2013, 12:11 PM
don't come crying to me :D this is a debate, talk to him! you sound like you're quitting already? please tell me this isn't so!

My position is the same as before. My answers are usually brief and to the point.

Neceseco
09-22-2013, 12:13 PM
The Lord asked the Muslims to spread the Message of His Oneness.

What's wrong with that ?




That he asked to spread it through the sword. Which by the way shows how weak he is. He could "help" the spreading of islam just appearing in the sky of every city giving a proof or speaking the local language. But unfortunately your "almighty" god needs ignorant people to spread his truth through violence and is able to speak just one language, the one of Muhammad, what a coincidence.

boseador
09-22-2013, 12:14 PM
don't come crying to me :D this is a debate, talk to him! you sound like you're quitting already? please tell me this isn't so!

I think he is getting scared... his faith is shaking from fear of being abjured.

CXC, I will reply to your post... this next punch will knock you the fuk out biacht!

CXC3000
09-22-2013, 12:16 PM
That he asked to spread it through the sword. Which by the way shows how weak he is. He could "help" the spreading of islam just appearing in the sky of every city giving a proof or speaking the local language. But unfortunately your "almighty" god needs ignorant people to spread his truth through violence and is able to speak just one language, the one of Muhammad, what a coincidence.

Not sure if the opinions of the Islamophobes are of much effect.


I think he is getting scared... his faith is shaking from fear of being abjured.

CXC, I will reply to your post... this next punch will knock you the fuk out biacht!

I actually lol'd.

boseador
09-22-2013, 12:58 PM
Er, non-Muslims in this sense usually means those who are trying to kill you.

Sheesh ! - how dumb are you ?

Was this guy trying to kill Muslims when they killed him and stole all of his property? He was taking care of his cattle and then all of a sudden he got jumped by some Muslims that killed him and took his property.
http://www.quran4u.com/Tafsir%20Ibn%20Kathir/004%20Nisa.htm

Was this self defence? Was the attack on unsuspecting civilians also self defence? Do you even know what self defence means? Is taking women and children and raping them self defence? The men were killed as unarmed civilians, this is an offensive attack, not self defence.

You know that according to international law, it is prohibited to take POW, to harm innocent civilians and to take their property? Anyone who does commits such crimes is considered a war criminal. Now the Quran and Sunna are books with the best examples for mankind to follow. According to international convention, anyone that follows the example set in the Quran and Sunna would be a criminal of war and brought to justice.



Lol @ the word 'looting'. It's called war booty. If you attack Muslims because they're asking others to worship the One Creator, then try not to shed any tears when your belongings somehow disappear.

What does the Quran say in regards to the non Muslims? It says invite them to Islam, if they refuse they should pay jizya or be killed. Now tell me, who is the attacker, who is terrorising and oppressing?

Let's say a group of pagans reject Islam, do they not have the right to continue with their polytheistic religion and live their lives peacefully with the Jews and Christians of the area? So they rejected Islam, would Mohammed just give up and leave? No, he started to raid caravans (26), and gained an army of criminals and thugs and then went terrorising and forcing people into Islam. Lets say some Muslims were treated as enemies, does this give Muslims the right to attack these people's families by surprise while they are still in bed and take their belongings and women and children as slaves/sex slaves?



It makes sense to find out who's trying to kill you and your family.

Those verses in the Quran are advertising that whomever joins Mohammed's gang will have lots of booty and women captives. This is not self defence. Mohammed raided 26 caravans, how could raiding caravans containing food and stuff belonging to innocent people be self defence?




That's how you win against the anti-Muslims who are trying to kill you.

Who was trying to kill Muslims when they were kicked out to Medina? No one did anything to them in Medina, and they lived among the Jews there for a year and nothing happened to them, until Mohammed decided to attack a caravan, 1 year after he left Mecca and even though no one was attacking them. Mohammed was tired of being poor and being fed by the charity of the Jews and the people of Medina. He made his gullible followers believe that he was a prophet and that Allah had ordered them to raid a caravan, and that is what they did. You know how it went, they waited for the sacred month of the pagans, the Muslims shaved their head to look like innocent pilgrims and attacked the caravan by surprise.




You mentioned the tribe of Banu Mustaliq. Funnily enough, they were allied to the anti-Muslim Pagan Arabs who were intent on wiping out the Muslims. And then you're surprised when the latter decides to make sure they don't engage in that murderous action.

Is this your excuse for killing innocent people and taking their women and children and raping them? That they were allied to anti-Islamists? So it was not self defence, this was an offensive attack. Do you think it is justified to loot a village and kill its people and rape their women because they have a link with an enemy?




Yes, those Muslim men, women and children who were being starved, tortured and killed by the Pagan Arabs (and their allies). How dare they defend themselves.

Prove this.

Mecca was a tolerant and multicultural place. Jews, Christians and Pagans live together in harmony and interacted daily. This is until Mohammed came and destroyed the comunity and divided it. Mohammed was a psychopath and a narcissist, he wanted it all for him. In the end he had to leave Mecca because of all the trouble he caused. But this is not the topic we are discussing now.




Why do you keep referring to those who were killing Muslim men, women, and children as innocents ?

You're messed, man. Seriously.

Mohammed was raiding innocent people, as in women and children and unarmed civilians. It is one thing to attack armed combatants, but a totally different thing to attack a village of farmers and take their women, children and property and claim it was self defence. What a joke.

You're messed, man. Seriously.

boseador
09-23-2013, 04:03 AM
Bump for CXC3000

ZioBot
09-23-2013, 04:18 AM
i was expecting some sort of knowledge from him - dunno why but he struck me as knowledgeable in that area only. I thought we'd see some great references from hadith and various sources of expertise on the subject matter. Instead i've just witnessed blind faith, backed up by herp, derp and potato.

I'm a little embarrassed i even suggested this whole debacle tbh. Forgive me boseador.

TheNarrative
09-23-2013, 04:28 AM
You're messed, man. Seriously.


I'm a little embarrassed i even suggested this whole debacle tbh. Forgive me boseador.

I lost it after these posts.

boseador
09-23-2013, 04:30 AM
i was expecting some sort of knowledge from him - dunno why but he struck me as knowledgeable in that area only. I thought we'd see some great references from hadith and various sources of expertise on the subject matter. Instead i've just witnessed blind faith, backed up by herp, derp and potato.

I'm a little embarrassed i even suggested this whole debacle tbh. Forgive me boseador.

No problem brah.

I also expected something from him. I mean, they way he defends Islam, it is as if he lived with Mohammed and witnessed the revelation process and took part in all 70 battles and 26 caravan raids or something. I am disappoint.

TheNarrative
09-23-2013, 04:31 AM
I wasn't expecting anything from the guy.

Reds gonna red. He's not even consistent in posting here, he sporadically posts and will disappear when confronted.

ZioBot
09-23-2013, 08:09 AM
Bump for CXC3000

lasher
09-23-2013, 08:22 AM
Well this ain't no BalkanPrince debate that's for sure

ZioBot
09-23-2013, 08:37 AM
Well this ain't no BalkanPrince debate that's for surei think i could've have done better tbh

(thats not a challenge)

thinking about it, this lends further merit to the theory he's actually Jewish

CXC3000
09-23-2013, 08:45 AM
Was this guy trying to kill Muslims when they killed him and stole all of his property? He was taking care of his cattle and then all of a sudden he got jumped by some Muslims that killed him and took his property.
http://www.quran4u.com/Tafsir%20Ibn%20Kathir/004%20Nisa.htm

Was this self defence? Was the attack on unsuspecting civilians also self defence? Do you even know what self defence means? Is taking women and children and raping them self defence? The men were killed as unarmed civilians, this is an offensive attack, not self defence.

You do realize in times of war, tragic mistakes will happen ?

You did know this, right ?


You know that according to international law, it is prohibited to take POW, to harm innocent civilians and to take their property? Anyone who does commits such crimes is considered a war criminal. Now the Quran and Sunna are books with the best examples for mankind to follow. According to international convention, anyone that follows the example set in the Quran and Sunna would be a criminal of war and brought to justice.

The Islam Faith protects POWs. Not sure where you're getting the info from re. harm coming to them.


What does the Quran say in regards to the non Muslims? It says invite them to Islam, if they refuse they should pay jizya or be killed. Now tell me, who is the attacker, who is terrorising and oppressing?

Non-Muslims living under Muslim rule need to pay taxes.

Muslims living under Muslim rule need to pay taxes.

Where's the problem ?


Let's say a group of pagans reject Islam, do they not have the right to continue with their polytheistic religion and live their lives peacefully with the Jews and Christians of the area? So they rejected Islam, would Mohammed just give up and leave?

Non-Muslims are free to worship as they please.


Lets say some Muslims were treated as enemies, does this give Muslims the right to attack these people's families by surprise while they are still in bed and take their belongings and women and children as slaves/sex slaves?

If a certain section of anti-Muslims attack the Muslims, does the former expect flowers in return ?


Those verses in the Quran are advertising that whomever joins Mohammed's gang will have lots of booty and women captives. This is not self defence. Mohammed raided 26 caravans, how could raiding caravans containing food and stuff belonging to innocent people be self defence?

Anti-Muslims intent on killing Muslims does not usually equate to 'innocent'.


Who was trying to kill Muslims when they were kicked out to Medina? No one did anything to them in Medina, and they lived among the Jews there for a year and nothing happened to them, until Mohammed decided to attack a caravan, 1 year after he left Mecca and even though no one was attacking them. Mohammed was tired of being poor and being fed by the charity of the Jews and the people of Medina. He made his gullible followers believe that he was a prophet and that Allah had ordered them to raid a caravan, and that is what they did. You know how it went, they waited for the sacred month of the pagans, the Muslims shaved their head to look like innocent pilgrims and attacked the caravan by surprise.

There were many tribes in Medina whose intention was to annihilate the Muslims. Unfortunately (for them), they didn't succeed.


v Is this your excuse for killing innocent people and taking their women and children and raping them? That they were allied to anti-Islamists? So it was not self defence, this was an offensive attack. Do you think it is justified to loot a village and kill its people and rape their women because they have a link with an enemy?

Again: anti-Muslims intent on killing Muslims does not usually equate to 'innocent'.


Prove this.

Read up on the early days of Islam when the new Muslim community was being boycotted, threatened, tortured, killed.


Mecca was a tolerant and multicultural place. Jews, Christians and Pagans live together in harmony and interacted daily. This is until Mohammed came and destroyed the comunity and divided it.

The Messenger's mission was to get rid of idol worship in the area and make it Pure. Nothing wrong with that.


Mohammed was raiding innocent people, as in women and children and unarmed civilians. It is one thing to attack armed combatants, but a totally different thing to attack a village of farmers and take their women, children and property and claim it was self defence. What a joke.

When you're allied to the anti-Muslims, you need to be aware you're just as guilty as the enemy.