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DizzySmalls
09-20-2013, 10:37 AM
Staying alive and keeping on is a lot of work and stress. For those of you who don't believe that life has a knowable objective meaning, what keeps you engaged and motivated to continue in the face of meaninglessness? Are you just trying to remain content and let nature take its course, or do you have a desire or goal which sustains you?

When you consider that everything you love and are attached to will eventually be taken from you, and that temporary, insecure happiness is all that is available to you, what makes you continue?

It could be desire for power, experiences, pleasures, knowledge etc.

What ephemeral satisfactions do you seek that makes you labor and persist? Do you think these satisfactions will justify the effort?

Those who believe in objective meaning are also welcome to share

IDrinkBloodLOL
09-20-2013, 10:40 AM
I believe self perfection and forming truly meaningful relationships (i.e. families, lifelong friendships) are the objective meaning of life.

Thus, I care very VERY little about the things I acquire and spend each day caring about what kind of person I'm becoming and how well I take care of my health and my body.

DizzySmalls
09-20-2013, 10:58 AM
I believe self perfection and forming truly meaningful relationships (i.e. families, lifelong friendships) are the objective meaning of life.

Thus, I care very VERY little about the things I acquire and spend each day caring about what kind of person I'm becoming and how well I take care of my health and my body.
What aspect of relationships makes them meaningful to you?

IDrinkBloodLOL
09-20-2013, 10:59 AM
What aspect of relationships makes them meaningful to you?

That actually gets into my religion.

As a Mormon, I believe that family relationships can persist beyond death if they are sealed by the proper authority. This includes marriages as well as parent/child relationships.

In our belief, mortality is a probationary state between premortal existence and future immortality: if we become awesome by the time we die, where "awesome" includes adhering to the commandments we believe to be from God, we will obtain a reward in the eternities. We basically believe that all of the personal development you achieve in this life carries over to the next, thus that and relationships are the most important things in mortal existence.

3stripes
09-20-2013, 11:14 AM
Happy family life

Hoping I have done good by my wife and grown up kids

Enjoying early retirement from the rat race and making the most of what is left of my life

CRyan64
09-20-2013, 11:28 AM
I like pleasurable experiences. And I like them so much that I'm willing to experience dis-pleasurable experiences in the interim. I therefore prefer to experience life rather than offing myself.

DizzySmalls
09-20-2013, 11:34 AM
I like pleasurable experiences. And I like them so much that I'm willing to experience dis-pleasurable experiences in the interim. I therefore prefer to experience life rather than offing myself.
I think people naturally take different amounts of pleasure from different activities and experience varying degrees of suffering to obtain those experiences.

What is so great about run of the mill family life that makes people willing to do things they hate for 40-80 hours a week?

Looking at the trajectory of life and the daily demands of making yourself a function to be exploited for the gains of others can make nonexistence start to seem like a solid deal. Without the purely biological impulse to stay alive and reproduce, how many people would just kill themselves?

CRyan64
09-20-2013, 11:46 AM
Without the purely biological impulse to stay alive and reproduce, how many people would just kill themselves?

Idunnolol

If it weren't for this...

I like pleasurable experiences. And I like them so much that I'm willing to experience dis-pleasurable experiences in the interim.


I would probably kill myself. Don't really have a problem with suicide. Ahh...life. A strange thing.

DizzySmalls
09-20-2013, 12:15 PM
Idunnolol

If it weren't for this...

I like pleasurable experiences. And I like them so much that I'm willing to experience dis-pleasurable experiences in the interim.


I would probably kill myself. Don't really have a problem with suicide. Ahh...life. A strange thing.
It's stranger to me how few people even care about such thoughts. How are people so well insulated from how empty everything is and the need to create something to fill the void?

How is a person willing to get angry and debate an issue like abortion when they can't even justify their own existence?

GreyArea
09-20-2013, 12:26 PM
hopefully there's no hate in this thread for religious answers.

that said, I find purpose in knowing that I will be able to know God and enjoy him forever and experience good things forever with other people.

this gives my life on earth purpose, knowing that I have a job to fulfill while I'm here.

again, hope there's no religious hate here.

GreatOldOne
09-20-2013, 12:33 PM
Staying alive and keeping on is a lot of work and stress. For those of you who don't believe that life has a knowable objective meaning, what keeps you engaged and motivated to continue in the face of meaninglessness? Are you just trying to remain content and let nature take its course, or do you have a desire or goal which sustains you?

I wouldn't say I'm letting nature take it's course, but it does anyway. I just decided not to have a problem with that while I live my life.



When you consider that everything you love and are attached to will eventually be taken from you, and that temporary, insecure happiness is all that is available to you, what makes you continue?

Sadomasichism. Yearning for experience for no reason.



It could be desire for power, experiences, pleasures, knowledge etc.

What ephemeral satisfactions do you seek that makes you labor and persist?


Family, relationships, community, sport, art, music, knowledge, learning a new language, solving puzzles, new experiences, fighting.



Do you think these satisfactions will justify the effort?


Justify to who?

RussianGerman
09-20-2013, 12:35 PM
I guess finding happiness, whatever that may be fr YOU. And sharing that happiness with someone else (significant other? Friend? Fam?)


Not really one answer for this question

Posthardcore
09-20-2013, 12:37 PM
Growing, expanding my horizons, discovering stuff and trying to have a positive effect of growth on the people I meet.

It's pretty vague, but why limit myself and label a single purpose or goal when I can explore different avenues and different ''mini-goals''.

DizzySmalls
09-20-2013, 12:38 PM
lol GOO you sound like me on a good day. I could find a post of myself replying sadomasochism to that very question a month or two ago.

Another question... has a person reached some level of insanity or dysfunction when they begin to ask what the purpose of being happy or striving for happiness is?

GreatOldOne
09-20-2013, 12:40 PM
lol GOO you sound like me on a good day. I could find a post of myself replying sadomasochism to that very question a month or two ago.

Do you think it is life itself which needs justification or the effort required for the day to day stuff?

Considering we're alive, I don't think life itself needs justification.

I wouldn't recommend doing something 40-80 hours a week your whole life you truly don't enjoy, though....Life's longer than you think and you can change careers if you're unsatisfied.

GreatOldOne
09-20-2013, 12:44 PM
lol GOO you sound like me on a good day. I could find a post of myself replying sadomasochism to that very question a month or two ago.

Another question... has a person reached some level of insanity or dysfunction when they begin to ask what the purpose of being happy or striving for happiness is?

I've always thought happiness was overrated as a goal. It's normally a byproduct of something else I think and you just became happy.

DizzySmalls
09-20-2013, 12:45 PM
Do you think it is life itself which needs justification or the effort required for the day to day stuff?
The effort required by things that you want no part of. Responsibilities to other people, the responsibility to labor to support yourself. The structured work week and the family structure is enough to make a person say to hell with it.

CRyan64
09-20-2013, 12:47 PM
Another question... has a person reached some level of insanity or dysfunction when they begin to ask what the purpose of being happy or striving for happiness is?

To me this is asking why we apparently prefer pleasure over displeasure. And my answer would be, idunnolol. But I don't care why I like pleasure. What I care about is that I like it, and I experience it. I don't care why I exist, or how I exist, all I care about is that I do exist and that I can experience certain pleasures. And I said previously that I don't care if I experience dis-pleasures in the interim.

DizzySmalls
09-20-2013, 12:53 PM
To me this is asking why we apparently prefer pleasure over displeasure. And my answer would be, idunnolol. But I don't care why I like pleasure. What I care about is that I like it, and I experience it. I don't care why I exist, or how I exist, all I care about is that I do exist and that I can experience certain pleasures. And I said previously that I don't care if I experience dis-pleasures in the interim.
I think this is an easier stance to hold when the displeasure you experience is mild or the pleasures you experience are overwhelmingly satisfying. A lot of this is in the perception which is in the mindset which is in the biology of the brain, which is largely outside of a person's control.

CRyan64
09-20-2013, 12:56 PM
I think this is an easier stance to hold when the displeasure you experience is mild or the pleasures you experience are overwhelmingly satisfying. A lot of this is in the perception which is in the mindset which is in the biology of the brain, which is largely outside of a person's control.


Yeah I'd say so. I don't experience many great pleasures, though I don't really experience many dis-pleasures either. I'm more so at peace with myself. This is satisfying enough for me to sustain my existence. Why, I dunno. It just is.

GreatOldOne
09-20-2013, 12:59 PM
The effort required by things that you want no part of. Responsibilities to other people, the responsibility to labor to support yourself. The structured work week and the family structure is enough to make a person say to hell with it.

Well, starting with the responsibility to labor to support yourself...you'll probably start enjoying this more over time as your rewards are going to increase the further you get into your career. But, if you truly dislike what you're doing it isn't the end of the world to change and do something else if you could figure out whatever that is. Especially while you are young.

Perhaps it won't sound comforting, but you were never supposed to enjoy doing things you didn't want to do. Meeting your responsibilities to other people gives you a backbone. That's not to say let yourself be a doormat, though. I would say you should try to own that responsibility and know you can revoke it (whatever the consequences are) if you want to feel the value of meeting it. You might do yourself good to analyze your responsibilities and either drop them or recast them in your mind as the things you're willing to suffer for to various extend because of other reasons of your own choosing.

CRyan64
09-20-2013, 01:06 PM
I can't say that my approach will remain effective forever, but right now I tell myself that my happiness comes first. It shall not be fuked with. Anything that is to enter my little life-bubble will either be enjoyable, or it is to not be valued. If I end up flipping burgers for a living, fuk it. I will like it. If I end up a hobo, I will be a happy hobo. If my family dies, whatever. I'm still alive, life goes on, etc.

This is all just a state of mind of course, a theoretical approach. I'm sure I will feel sad for awhile if my family were to die.

Posthardcore
09-20-2013, 01:10 PM
I can't say that my approach will remain effective forever, but right now I tell myself that my happiness comes first. It shall not be fuked with. Anything that is to enter my little life-bubble will either be enjoyable, or it is to not be valued. If I end up flipping burgers for a living, fuk it. I will like it. If I end up a hobo, I will be a happy hobo. If my family dies, whatever. I'm still alive, life goes on, etc.

This is all just a state of mind of course, a theoretical approach. I'm sure I will feel sad for awhile if my family were to die.
I think it is more than only a theoretical approach. I believe emotional conditioning does work, just like working out at the gym. The sole act of often reinforcing what truly matters and center your attention towards your happiness will pay dividends in the long-term.

DizzySmalls
09-20-2013, 01:11 PM
Well, starting with the responsibility to labor to support yourself...you'll probably start enjoying this more over time as your rewards are going to increase the further you get into your career. But, if you truly dislike what you're doing it isn't the end of the world to change and do something else if you could figure out whatever that is. Especially while you are young.

Perhaps it won't sound comforting, but you were never supposed to enjoy doing things you didn't want to do. Meeting your responsibilities to other people gives you a backbone. That's not to say let yourself be a doormat, though. I would say you should try to own that responsibility and know you can revoke it (whatever the consequences are) if you want to feel the value of meeting it. You might do yourself good to analyze your responsibilities and either drop them or recast them in your mind as the things you're willing to suffer for to various extend because of other reasons of your own choosing.
You really can't revoke the responsibility of supporting yourself without becoming a leech or dying though. The struggle is having the "backbone" to want something enough to make yourself willing.

It's stunning how for one week you can be motivated and improving and thirsty for experience and then out of nowhere it's amotivational syndrome, doing anything is difficult, and nothing is worth the effort.

Mindset and willpower are largely outside of one's control. One is enhanced or victimized by it much like with the weather.

ElderJefferson
09-20-2013, 01:14 PM
The purpose of my life:

"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is manís all." Ecclesiastes 12:13

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Peter 1:3-5

"To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." Colossians 1:27

I have to go get ready for the Sabbath. I'll see you cats on the other side...

PaulG
09-20-2013, 01:37 PM
Purpose and goals are irrelevant. They are just a means to experience life. There is nothing more satisfying and natural for a man than to embrace life like it's a death struggle. Most men are stuck in a rut, like Pavlov's dogs, and never will get out or reach enlightenment. Follow forward to ones own zenith, physically, mentally and spiritually; the simple and true trinity of enlightenment.

Flakker
09-20-2013, 01:42 PM
6PQ6335puOc

lasher
09-20-2013, 01:44 PM
6PQ6335puOc

Can't believe it took 27 posts.

Harbinger
09-20-2013, 01:46 PM
To be remembered fondly by my children.

jamesbwbevis
09-20-2013, 03:33 PM
My purpose/goal is to attain inner peace and contentment. I want to get to the point where there is minimal worrying, stress etc and I just spend everyday going through enjoying little and big things while I can.

Posthardcore
09-20-2013, 03:40 PM
My purpose/goal is to attain inner peace and contentment. I want to get to the point where there is minimal worrying, stress etc and I just spend everyday going through enjoying little and big things while I can.

Do you feel like your close to that?

jamesbwbevis
09-20-2013, 03:49 PM
Do you feel like your close to that? I'm getting there yea. I'm learning how to put wants and desires aside and just enjoy things the way things are. Contentment is just reality minus expectations. I'm also learning how to accept people as they are, so I get annoyed or angry much less. Feelsgoodman, I just want to live a simple life in peace with as few issues as possible

Spuddy
09-20-2013, 03:52 PM
My purpose is to release everything and go with whatever flow life brings me without struggle. Already in talks with the family about giving my house to my little bro and basically doing what Jesus did (IE: just let everything go and let life reveal itself as it comes)

jamesbwbevis
09-20-2013, 03:53 PM
My purpose is to release everything and go with whatever flow life brings me without struggle.

wise brah is wise

JFizzle23
09-20-2013, 03:55 PM
Death.

I feel sorry for people who mindlessly work their entire life. Such a waste... Much rather be on that poverty time and enjoying myself instead of killing myself to make money I can't even properly enjoy.

Spuddy
09-20-2013, 03:56 PM
wise brah is wise
wise brah sees a reflection of his inner self ;)

Posthardcore
09-20-2013, 04:08 PM
I'm getting there yea. I'm learning how to put wants and desires aside and just enjoy things the way things are. Contentment is just reality minus expectations. I'm also learning how to accept people as they are, so I get annoyed or angry much less. Feelsgoodman, I just want to live a simple life in peace with as few issues as possible

Do you put wants and desires aside completely, or are you just not as emotionally attached to them as most people are? I feel like placing more value on the journey rather than the outcomes is a good start for anyone seeking happiness.

jamesbwbevis
09-20-2013, 04:08 PM
Death.

I feel sorry for people who mindlessly work their entire life. Such a waste... Much rather be on that poverty time and enjoying myself instead of killing myself to make money I can't even properly enjoy.

well think about it. People work as much as they need to to fulfill their wants and needs. So, the problem isnt that they work so much. The sad thing is that NEED to work so much and get so much money to satisfy themselves.

jamesbwbevis
09-20-2013, 04:13 PM
Do you put wants and desires aside completely, or are you just not as emotionally attached to them as most people are? I feel like placing more value on the journey rather than the outcomes is a good start for anyone seeking happiness.

Yea, I just try to be less emotionally attached to them. For example, I basically have no ambitions in the traditional sense. I have an idea of how I'd like things to go in my career and life but its not really a set target. I cant fail, cause I'm ready to just see what happens and make the most of wherever I should find myself

CRyan64
09-20-2013, 04:26 PM
Yea, I just try to be less emotionally attached to them. For example, I basically have no ambitions in the traditional sense. I have an idea of how I'd like things to go in my career and life but its not really a set target. I cant fail, cause I'm ready to just see what happens and make the most of wherever I should find myself

I pretty much have the same mentality. I can fail, in the sense that something doesn't go as I ideally planned for it to go, but I don't get upset over it. My motto is, shoot for the stars...but if you don't get off the ground then that's okay too. Have ideals, but if you don't attain them then that's okay too.

primetime32
09-20-2013, 04:37 PM
My purpose is to enjoy and appreciate every moment I have been given. However my life came into existence, its a gift and a unique chance to feel, love, hate, help others etc... Ride the wave while you can.

jamesbwbevis
09-20-2013, 04:42 PM
My purpose is to enjoy and appreciate every moment I have been given. However my life came into existence, its a gift and a unique chance to feel, love, hate, help others etc... Ride the wave while you can.

im impressed hahah, maybe this section of the misc is more sane. In general misc if you made this thread you'd get the typical 10k/day bang sloots response.

jamesbwbevis
09-20-2013, 04:45 PM
How is a person willing to get angry and debate an issue like abortion when they can't even justify their own existence?

mindblown- so true

Posthardcore
09-20-2013, 04:55 PM
im impressed hahah, maybe this section of the misc is more sane. In general misc if you made this thread you'd get the typical 10k/day bang sloots response.

I like to think miscers are just trolling for the lulz. Sadly, it's probably not the case and they're actually serious.

No7
09-20-2013, 04:59 PM
i wanna be the very best

like no-one ever was

RonPaul2012
09-20-2013, 05:08 PM
Staying alive and keeping on is a lot of work and stress. For those of you who don't believe that life has a knowable objective meaning, what keeps you engaged and motivated to continue in the face of meaninglessness? Are you just trying to remain content and let nature take its course, or do you have a desire or goal which sustains you?

When you consider that everything you love and are attached to will eventually be taken from you, and that temporary, insecure happiness is all that is available to you, what makes you continue?

It could be desire for power, experiences, pleasures, knowledge etc.

What ephemeral satisfactions do you seek that makes you labor and persist? Do you think these satisfactions will justify the effort?

Those who believe in objective meaning are also welcome to share

family is #1

Desire for power, knowledge, and money is what keeps me going. Getting my education knowing that I HAVE to is tough, but I just keep pushing forward to reach my goals. Just living like, having fun, not letting stress get to me. Cutting stress is really important...learning how to cope with it. Being at peace and appreciating all the little things :)

trailwarrior
09-20-2013, 05:16 PM
lol @ "family"..."If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters - yes, even their own life - such a person cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26 (NIV)

Whenever I hear someone puting "their family" above everyone else then I know that I have met a true bigot!

Reliance012
09-20-2013, 05:36 PM
To add to the the scientific body of knowledge, primarily through publishing literature. Through this, the contributions I make to better our world are essentially indefinite.

TheNarrative
09-20-2013, 05:43 PM
I gotta make it to heaven, for going through hell / Gotta make it to heaven, gotta make it to heaven / I gotta make it to heaven, for going through hell

powerman2000
09-20-2013, 06:16 PM
Besides being a servant for Jesus, my purpose is to be the best father and husband I can.

CortezWeasel
09-20-2013, 11:02 PM
I have two goals.
1st one is to the travel the world and go to places I haven't seen before cause I was raised in a poor family and I never been outside of the U.S. so I want to see what's it like to travel the world before I move on to the next world.
2nd one is to become a grandpa cause my grandparents died before I was born and so I want to see what my grandkids look like.

Myriad88
09-20-2013, 11:29 PM
Obtain Phd. I certainly dont need one to get a job, but I value things other than money, house, car etc. I value knowledge and personal development above all else. If i went through life without reaching my maximum potential, I would always bfeel intellectually empty.

DizzySmalls
09-21-2013, 06:31 AM
lol @ "family"..."If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters - yes, even their own life - such a person cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26 (NIV)

Whenever I hear someone puting "their family" above everyone else then I know that I have met a true bigot!
Do you even genetics?

GreatOldOne
09-21-2013, 08:21 AM
Obtain Phd. I certainly dont need one to get a job, but I value things other than money, house, car etc. I value knowledge and personal development above all else. If i went through life without reaching my maximum potential, I would always bfeel intellectually empty.

Good luck with it. I suggest finding some things which have no maximum level to work on. There is an empty feeling obtaining your goal in life. I think you have to either realize they're just markers where you know its time to define new goals or else your goal needs to be incremental (so you see progress) yet impossible.

tk217
09-21-2013, 08:22 AM
Making $$$ = Fun.

Turbomunkey
09-21-2013, 09:31 AM
I gotta make it to heaven, for going through hell / Gotta make it to heaven, gotta make it to heaven / I gotta make it to heaven, for going through hell

Just watched get rich or die trying last night

My purpose is to follow Jesus and help others. Which I think I do a good job off, but lately I have been in a mental rut. Self conscious of life and existence and its made me feel lowly

Ancients
09-21-2013, 09:34 AM
I believe self perfection and forming truly meaningful relationships (i.e. families, lifelong friendships) are the objective meaning of life.

Thus, I care very VERY little about the things I acquire and spend each day caring about what kind of person I'm becoming and how well I take care of my health and my body.

pretty much.

not one fuk was given about making 500k a year and buying a lambo every 6 weeks

we all want to be free, better question is whats freedom?

moosik85
09-21-2013, 09:49 AM
My dad once said. Dont not do something because you might fuk it up...

My aim is to travel the world, have a couple of kids with my GF and enjoy life. Im over the rat race, looking forward to a 40 hr work week, enough to support my family and enjoy life.

Reliance012
09-21-2013, 01:00 PM
Obtain Phd. I certainly dont need one to get a job, but I value things other than money, house, car etc. I value knowledge and personal development above all else. If i went through life without reaching my maximum potential, I would always bfeel intellectually empty.

For once I agree with you.

DizzySmalls
09-21-2013, 05:36 PM
pretty much.

not one fuk was given about making 500k a year and buying a lambo every 6 weeks

we all want to be free, better question is whats freedom?
Freedom isn't working 60+ hours a week for somebody else so that you can buy things to impress people, I know that much.

tk217
09-21-2013, 05:38 PM
Freedom isn't working 60+ hours a week for somebody else so that you can buy things to impress people, I know that much.

Exactly - but having a million dollars gives you the freedom to not work 60 + hours.

DizzySmalls
09-21-2013, 05:41 PM
Exactly - but having a million dollars gives you the freedom to not work 60 + hours.
It gives you the ability to live more comfortably. You always have the option of going Thoreau after all

bigdogfarmhand
09-21-2013, 05:42 PM
Money. To provide for my love ones. That's all that matters to me

DizzySmalls
09-21-2013, 05:46 PM
Money. To provide for my love ones. That's all that matters to me
I wish I could describe how unsatisfying this path is to me in a coherent way.

Tekkendo
09-21-2013, 06:04 PM
Staying alive and keeping on is a lot of work and stress. For those of you who don't believe that life has a knowable objective meaning, what keeps you engaged and motivated to continue in the face of meaninglessness? Are you just trying to remain content and let nature take its course, or do you have a desire or goal which sustains you?

When you consider that everything you love and are attached to will eventually be taken from you, and that temporary, insecure happiness is all that is available to you, what makes you continue?

It could be desire for power, experiences, pleasures, knowledge etc.

What ephemeral satisfactions do you seek that makes you labor and persist? Do you think these satisfactions will justify the effort?

Those who believe in objective meaning are also welcome to share
Soe8ayi3ScE

KimoJ
09-21-2013, 06:09 PM
To live another day as a Gift.
A Chance where i have to surprise myself to endure and break all plateus my mind has created.
putting that as a goal makes me go to bed happy...and praying to God to give me another Gifted day.

Ranga91
09-21-2013, 06:23 PM
My goal is to improve myself and everyone around me, take myself and everyone around me that 1 step closer to perfection. To improve my physical being, my mental mindset and try and make a positive change in the world, I feel like there is way to much negative in the world and I know Im only 1 person I can't do ****. But I truly believe there is so much potential in everyone and its just waiting to be unlocked, I myself am nowhere near that stage but stepping closer every day, soon.

Judgment
09-21-2013, 06:28 PM
For those of you who don't believe that life has a knowable objective meaning, what keeps you engaged and motivated to continue in the face of meaninglessness?

I used to think I knew but somewhere along the way I lost that idea and now I'm a shadow of my former self: living based on the idea that I once was "alive"? Hard to explain but I suppose it was like you stated; "letting nature take its course". I live with the hope that something brings that spark back to my reality. I see the world for what it is yet I live to strive to be proven wrong.

tk217
09-21-2013, 07:56 PM
I used to think I knew but somewhere along the way I lost that idea and now I'm a shadow of my former self: living based on the idea that I once was "alive"? Hard to explain but I suppose it was like you stated; "letting nature take its course". I live with the hope that something brings that spark back to my reality. I see the world for what it is yet I live to strive to be proven wrong.
You sound like a hallowed out shell.

Myriad88
09-21-2013, 07:58 PM
Money. To provide for my love ones. That's all that matters to me

to live for money is to live as an automaton.

GreatOldOne
09-21-2013, 08:09 PM
I wish I could describe how unsatisfying this path is to me in a coherent way.

I suspect I know exactly what you mean. There's no need.

You know you are going to have to make some room for yourself in your life. The financial aspect could be a big problem, but don't forget you're just starting out. You have to stay hungry and not be complacent. Getting better and frankly...changing jobs a few times early in your career is how you increase the financial aspect.

I would bet at some point you'd be able to meet your obligations and be 'liberated'...meeting the 'built in' obligations you have and have space left over.

If you don't have it now you need to keep your eyes open for what can take you there. That's the only way you can create the space you will need for what I suspect are the things you will find reinvigorating in life:
1) searching/finding and intelligent companion...this entails the free time to get out in the venues likely to contain such people
2) you're going to have to start judo at some point. i'd say get going early. you're going to love it.
3) you IMO need to find a hobby/skill you can get better at over time...like drawing/painting/music of any kind...just think, you may not be able to do it...at all now. But take up a class at a local community center/parks/rec...etc...just imagine what it will be like in 10 years.

Just pick some random skill you don't have and decide you'll become awesome at it. That means you need daily practice...so do it...first thing in the morning.

Start with throwing ninja stars. Move up to hatchets.

Judgment
09-21-2013, 08:28 PM
You sound like a hallowed out shell.

Then I got my point across clearly because that's exactly what I am and exactly how I perceive the world. Humans pretend to be special because on this planet we're on top of the food chain when it comes to intelligence and achievement yet we're still just an anomaly lost in space with no true idea of who/what we are and can't even put a real finger on what we started out as.

mTOR
09-21-2013, 09:27 PM
When you consider that everything you love and are attached to will eventually be taken from you, and that temporary, insecure happiness is all that is available to you, what makes you continue?

I know that feel.


Sans a transcendental belief system involving the preservation or rebirth of consciousness after death, everything becomes absolutely meaningless. To add insult to injury, because of the profession I'm in, I am afforded (or cursed) with the opportunity to see sickness and death on an intimate level, and at times on a daily basis and on a relatively large scale (including involving those who were healthy and "weren't supposed to die today" -- e.g., victims of suicide, homicides, and fatal accidents). For the average person, it's easy to extract oneself from the realities of human mortality in today's society because most people experience the death of someone close infrequently, perhaps once every few years, and typically older or sick relatives; consequently, they think of death as remote and distant -- something that can be predicted by prolonged illness, something that happens to Other people, or something that will happen to "someday" but "not now". They live as if death (or the threat of it) is not a perpetual reality or not permanent. So for many of those who are not mentally and emotionally isolated from thinking about their own mortality (because of religion or other delusions), they usually aren't haunted too much, given the modern developed world offers another route to escapism: the physical and temporal alienation of death from one's day to day experience. I have neither luxury.

I'm reminded of the words of the wife of the 33-year-old injured Iraqi war veteran, atheist, and hospice care patient, Tomas Young:



“I look at the TV through the lens of his eyes and can see he is invisible,” said Claudia, standing in the living room as her husband rested in the bedroom. An array of books on death, the afterlife and dying are spread out around her. “No one is sick [on television]. No one is disabled. No one faces death. Dying in America is a very lonely business.”

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/15045-one-of-the-first-iraq-veterans-to-publicly-oppose-war-will-die-for-our-sins


Indeed. Life in America -- hell, any developed Western nation -- is, for most of the citizenry, without struggle, visible suffering or death. But death is ever present, and we are all standing in line waiting for the total and permanent annihilation of our consciousness; the seemless transition of a live healthy sentient entity with desires, love, joy, emotion, and experience... into a cold inanimate cadaver; and the slow subsequent decay of our bodies into rotting carcasses and eventual complete liberation our constituent atoms. Nothing really belongs to us. Not any money or property we think we own, and not even our own bodies. Everything we currently possess will be reclaimed by entropy.

We are here for a blip on an insignificant pale blue dot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wupToqz1e2g), to borrow Carl Sagan's phrase. There is ultimately no point to anything. Given the boundaries of human understanding, existence is irrational. I simply acknowledge it and keep it moving.. for my current state of being (i.e., of no suffering), existence in this present moment strikes me as more preferable than hastening my inevitable and inescapable death. It will come soon enough... and I'm in no rush.

GreatOldOne
09-21-2013, 09:34 PM
I know that feel.


Sans a transcendental belief system involving the preservation or rebirth of consciousness after death, everything becomes absolutely meaningless. To add insult to injury, because of the profession I'm in, I am afforded (or cursed) with the opportunity to see sickness and death on an intimate level, and at times on a daily basis and on a relatively large scale (including involving those who were healthy and "weren't supposed to die today" -- e.g., victims of suicide, homicides, and fatal accidents). For the average person, it's easy to extract oneself from the realities of human mortality in today's society because most people experience the death of someone close infrequently, perhaps once every few years, and typically older or sick relatives; consequently, they think of death as remote and distant -- something that can be predicted by prolonged illness, something that happens to Other people, or something that will happen to "someday" but "not now". They live as if death (or the threat of it) is not a perpetual reality or not permanent. So for many of those who are not mentally and emotionally isolated from thinking about their own mortality (because of religion or other delusions), they usually aren't haunted too much, given the modern developed world offers another route to escapism: the physical and temporal alienation of death from one's day to day experience. I have neither luxury.

I'm reminded of the words of the wife of the 33-year-old injured Iraqi war veteran, atheist, and hospice care patient, Tomas Young:



Indeed. Life in America -- hell, any developed Western nation -- is, for most of the citizenry, without struggle, visible suffering or death. But death is ever present, and we are all standing in line waiting for the total and permanent annihilation of our consciousness; the seemless transition of a live healthy sentient entity with desires, love, joy, emotion, and experience... into a cold inanimate cadaver; and the slow subsequent decay of our bodies into rotting carcasses and eventual complete liberation our constituent atoms. Nothing really belongs to us. Not any money or property we think we own, and not even our own bodies. Everything we currently possess will be reclaimed by entropy.

We are here for a blip on an insignificant pale blue dot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wupToqz1e2g), to borrow Carl Sagan's phrase. There is ultimately no point to anything. Given the boundaries of human understanding, existence is irrational. I simply acknowledge it and keep it moving.. for my current state of being (i.e., of no suffering), existence in this present moment strikes me as more preferable than hastening my inevitable and inescapable death. It will come soon enough... and I'm in no rush.

Love this post.

bigdogfarmhand
09-21-2013, 09:41 PM
I wish I could describe how unsatisfying this path is to me in a coherent way.

Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah

With all the Philosophy and fancy Word Phrasing you can use two things ring true.

1.A man provides for his wife and family the best he can

2. You have to have income to support yourself and family and when you have more it is Easier

We will both live are life, we will both die

The diffrence? Im a winner, I will take my last breathe knowing i did the best I could, worked as hard as I could take.

And didn't waste my life being Selfish looking for a meaning that I have no control over.

Self Sacrifice for loved ones is the Ultimate reward.

You can't understand yourself until you give it all away

Turbomunkey
09-21-2013, 09:50 PM
I used to think I knew but somewhere along the way I lost that idea and now I'm a shadow of my former self: living based on the idea that I once was "alive"? Hard to explain but I suppose it was like you stated; "letting nature take its course". I live with the hope that something brings that spark back to my reality. I see the world for what it is yet I live to strive to be proven wrong.


This xxxxx10000000

Posthardcore
09-21-2013, 09:56 PM
Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah

With all the Philosophy and fancy Word Phrasing you can use two things ring true.

1.A man provides for his wife and family the best he can

2. You have to have income to support yourself and family and when you have more it is Easier

We will both live are life, we will both die

The diffrence? Im a winner, I will take my last breathe knowing i did the best I could, worked as hard as I could take.

And didn't waste my life being Selfish looking for a meaning that I have no control over.

Self Sacrifice for loved ones is the Ultimate reward.

You can't understand yourself until you give it all away

With all due respect, you should strive to provide your family with many other things that have a higher priority than money. That's just me though.

jamesbwbevis
09-21-2013, 10:19 PM
Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah

With all the Philosophy and fancy Word Phrasing you can use two things ring true.

1.A man provides for his wife and family the best he can

2. You have to have income to support yourself and family and when you have more it is Easier

We will both live are life, we will both die

The diffrence? Im a winner, I will take my last breathe knowing i did the best I could, worked as hard as I could take.

And didn't waste my life being Selfish looking for a meaning that I have no control over.

Self Sacrifice for loved ones is the Ultimate reward.

You can't understand yourself until you give it all away

this post is one of the main reasons I'm never marrying or having kids. I dont want to base life on providing s*it for anyone else. to each his own though

MasterpieceMesias
09-21-2013, 11:05 PM
My own purpose in life is rather complicated. I haven't exactly found my 'calling' so to speak, but I can say that so far my goal is to attain as much knowledge as I can, learn more useful and interesting things that I am interested in. I don't really know exactly what my own 'purpose' is, though, that's rather complicated for me to explain

DizzySmalls
09-22-2013, 09:45 AM
I know that feel.


Sans a transcendental belief system involving the preservation or rebirth of consciousness after death, everything becomes absolutely meaningless. To add insult to injury, because of the profession I'm in, I am afforded (or cursed) with the opportunity to see sickness and death on an intimate level, and at times on a daily basis and on a relatively large scale (including involving those who were healthy and "weren't supposed to die today" -- e.g., victims of suicide, homicides, and fatal accidents). For the average person, it's easy to extract oneself from the realities of human mortality in today's society because most people experience the death of someone close infrequently, perhaps once every few years, and typically older or sick relatives; consequently, they think of death as remote and distant -- something that can be predicted by prolonged illness, something that happens to Other people, or something that will happen to "someday" but "not now". They live as if death (or the threat of it) is not a perpetual reality or not permanent. So for many of those who are not mentally and emotionally isolated from thinking about their own mortality (because of religion or other delusions), they usually aren't haunted too much, given the modern developed world offers another route to escapism: the physical and temporal alienation of death from one's day to day experience. I have neither luxury.

I'm reminded of the words of the wife of the 33-year-old injured Iraqi war veteran, atheist, and hospice care patient, Tomas Young:



Indeed. Life in America -- hell, any developed Western nation -- is, for most of the citizenry, without struggle, visible suffering or death. But death is ever present, and we are all standing in line waiting for the total and permanent annihilation of our consciousness; the seemless transition of a live healthy sentient entity with desires, love, joy, emotion, and experience... into a cold inanimate cadaver; and the slow subsequent decay of our bodies into rotting carcasses and eventual complete liberation our constituent atoms. Nothing really belongs to us. Not any money or property we think we own, and not even our own bodies. Everything we currently possess will be reclaimed by entropy.

We are here for a blip on an insignificant pale blue dot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wupToqz1e2g), to borrow Carl Sagan's phrase. There is ultimately no point to anything. Given the boundaries of human understanding, existence is irrational. I simply acknowledge it and keep it moving.. for my current state of being (i.e., of no suffering), existence in this present moment strikes me as more preferable than hastening my inevitable and inescapable death. It will come soon enough... and I'm in no rush.
Oh man this is a refreshing post. What really gets to me is that when you consider and digest these circumstances, it seems sensible to set aside the base drives to simply survive. As in, if more people kept mindful of the limitations of existence, they should strive to live a life that would be so fulfilling that it would cast aside any concerns about mortality.

How are people sustained by fighting for a promotion in a position where they stare at a clock so that they can have nice faucets for their sink and a shiny new blender? Why do people just want the easiest possible life when all that entails is a slow, uneventful process of dying with moderate contentedness? Is this society really the best one that we can establish? A culture of bad television and cheap consumerism, social interactions according to a sad formula of normality. Almost nobody utilizing their talents for any kind of creative or self-actualizing achievement and rather just serving as a function of a division of labor.

When you look at our culture and the way we live, despite all of it's luxuries that are easily taken for granted, is it really even comparable to the great cultures that existed previously? There is almost nothing to be proud of or to provide identity in modern America. It's a culture of mediocrity and banal sense pleasures, pill popping and reality TV. Sometimes it feels like one is surrounded by zombies and that it would be preferable to find some way to join them.

I realize that it's largely up to the individual to rectify these problems and find satisfaction within a society, but there is a definite sense of lacking with the current way of life and I don't think it will get better as our lives get even easier.

Tamorlane
09-22-2013, 09:56 AM
Sans a transcendental belief system involving the preservation or rebirth of consciousness after death, everything becomes absolutely meaningless.\

This is because you have wrong-view. You have taken the steps to discernment of dhamma (the way nature operates) but you stop short. Anyone focusing on impermanence solely will become depressed because of it. The problem I assume is a lack of concentration, meaning a lack of meditation.

It's when you taste the unconditioned, timeless truth that you begin to gravitate towards it, instead of remaining stuck in wrong view. The understanding of impermanence, but without the wisdom to see the big picture.

Sure everything is impermanent, empty and stressful as a result. But the Buddha taught the 4th mark, the other shore, the lasting peace that coincides with awakening and transcendental understanding and knowledge.

stezus
09-22-2013, 10:00 AM
Impregnate as many foreigners as possible.

Make money, start an empire.

DizzySmalls
09-23-2013, 08:24 PM
bringing this thread back to the first page for more, some interesting responses thus far

A-GAME
09-23-2013, 09:40 PM
My answer is peace. What makes it worth it? I would imagine it is pretty obvious.

DizzySmalls
09-23-2013, 09:51 PM
My answer is peace. What makes it worth it? I would imagine it is pretty obvious.
Why not death?

dmaaack
09-23-2013, 09:57 PM
For the past few years I have really struggled with this. I go in and out of being a depressed nihilist. Life is weird.

A-GAME
09-23-2013, 09:58 PM
Why not death?

Why not? I agree. I imagine it is much the same thing. I worked this out a long time ago watching people cry at a funeral. They aren't crying because they feel bad for the dead, they are crying because of their attachment. They are crying because they will miss the person. If you think about it logically, death is the ultimate cure. The dead have no problems, the ones who remain have the problems.

DizzySmalls
09-23-2013, 10:00 PM
Why not? I agree. I imagine it is much the same thing. I worked this out a long time ago watching people cry at a funeral. They aren't crying because they feel bad for the dead, they are crying because of their attachment. They are crying because they will miss the person. If you think about it logically, death is the ultimate cure. The dead have no problems, the ones who remain have the problems.
So why remain? :)

That's what I'm getting at with this thread. Everybody has an easy out available. Something has to make you choose life.

A-GAME
09-23-2013, 10:05 PM
So why remain? :)

That's what I'm getting at with this thread. Everybody has an easy out available. Something has to make you choose life.

You assume choice.

DizzySmalls
09-23-2013, 10:14 PM
You assume choice.
Plenty of suicide methods available, no? Unless you are arguing determinism?

CRyan64
09-23-2013, 10:16 PM
I realize that it's largely up to the individual to rectify these problems and find satisfaction within a society, but there is a definite sense of lacking with the current way of life and I don't think it will get better as our lives get even easier.

It's funny because previously I mentioned that my happiness comes first. There is nothing that I need to feel happy. (Debatable but that's what I tell myself). If I do anything, then I will either enjoy it or it is not to be valued (therefore I'm not unhappy, just not concerned). By brain has literally been re-wired, in a sense, such that I tell myself negative emotions are worthless and I therefore condition myself to experience happiness more often while feeling unhappiness less often.

Is life meaningless? -- Who gives a fuk? I don't, because I don't need meaning to feel happy.
Did my mom die? -- Who gives a fuk if she does? I don't need my mom to feel happy.
Will society be wiped off the face of the planet tomorrow? -- Fuk do I care. I'm here now and I'm enjoying my existence.

Do problems exist? Yeah...if you deem that a state of affairs is undesirable.
Do I have a problem? Nope. Anything I do is to be desired.

Do I find satisfaction? No. I have satisfaction by default.

A lifestyle lacking something? My life don't lack sh*t but unhappiness cuzz.


Just more input I guess.

A-GAME
09-23-2013, 10:20 PM
Plenty of suicide methods available, no? Unless you are arguing determinism?

I'm not arguing anything. Your statement is still an assumption. Let us assume free will exists, and suicide is an option. One must take into consideration the impact of a suicide on others. If my goal is peace, why then would I impose distress on my family and loved ones? Why would I impose distress on police who have to clean up my dead body when I blow my brains out or jump off a balcony? There are other things to take into consideration.

DizzySmalls
09-23-2013, 10:24 PM
I'm not arguing anything. Your statement is still an assumption. Let us assume free will exists, and suicide is an option. One must take into consideration the impact of a suicide on others. If my goal is peace, why then would I impose distress on my family and loved ones? Why would I impose distress on police who have to clean up my dead body when I blow my brains out or jump off a balcony? There are other things to take into consideration.
That is largely an answer to the question... Staying alive for other people

I'm a bit more selfish personally. Nothing matters once I'm dead from my vantage point

CRyan64
09-23-2013, 10:27 PM
I'm not arguing anything. Your statement is still an assumption. Let us assume free will exists, and suicide is an option. One must take into consideration the impact of a suicide on others. If my goal is peace, why then would I impose distress on my family and loved ones? Why would I impose distress on police who have to clean up my dead body when I blow my brains out or jump off a balcony? There are other things to take into consideration.

Peace to whom? For whom? When you're dead there is no peace. From my perspective, if I suicide then zero fuks are to be given about whom I may hurt, because all I care about is my emotions. I can't care about whom I hurt when I'm dead na mean. Though I guess from your point of view, if you want peace for others, then yeah I guess don't suicide.

A-GAME
09-23-2013, 10:29 PM
That is largely an answer to the question... Staying alive for other people

I'm a bit more selfish personally. Nothing matters once I'm dead from my vantage point

Sure. I'm just saying there are other things to take into consideration. Why so selfish brah?

DizzySmalls
09-23-2013, 10:32 PM
Sure. I'm just saying there are other things to take into consideration. Why so selfish brah?
That's a complicated question. I always have been, that's all I know. The philosophy I choose to read and my political ideology probably doesn't help. I just have always thought that since I only experience my consciousness, I should optimize around that.

A-GAME
09-23-2013, 10:32 PM
Peace to whom? For whom? When you're dead there is no peace. From my perspective, if I suicide then zero fuks are to be given about whom I may hurt, because all I care about is my emotions. I can't care about whom I hurt when I'm dead na mean. Though I guess from your point of view, if you want peace for others, then yeah I guess don't suicide.

It's not about peace for others once you are dead. It is about having compassion and considering the effects of suicide on others prior to taking your own life. Obviously when you are dead, nothing matters and there is an argument to be made that nothing matters when you are living. Still, many people take their own lives without considering the impact it will have on others.

CRyan64
09-23-2013, 10:33 PM
Sure. I'm just saying there are other things to take into consideration. Why so selfish brah?

Why not be selfish?

My perspective: My goal is to maximize pleasure and minimize displeasure.

If it can be argued that being selfish can maximize your pleasure, what good reason is there to not be selfish?

A-GAME
09-23-2013, 10:36 PM
That's a complicated question. I always have been, that's all I know. The philosophy I choose to read and my political ideology probably doesn't help. I just have always thought that since I only experience my consciousness, I should optimize around that.

In truth, everyone is selfish. They just don't realize it. People who donate their time to charity do it so they feel warm and fuzzy inside. Liberals are a good example of ego driven do gooders. I would never take my own life simply because of the impact on my family, but also because I cannot bear the thought of doing that to them. It sounds like I am a good guy, but in reality it is also an act of selfishness. On close examination, our own happiness is what always motivates us.

A-GAME
09-23-2013, 10:37 PM
Why not be selfish?

My perspective: My goal is to maximize pleasure and minimize displeasure.

If it can be argued that being selfish can maximize your pleasure, what good reason is there to not be selfish?

Why not? I don't care do what you want. If you are asking me personally, then I would say that being selfish is not conducive to finding peace. Selfishness is a major cause of disharmony.

CRyan64
09-23-2013, 10:40 PM
Sorry let me elaborate:

(1) I want to take the course of action which maximizes my pleasure and minimizes my displeasure.
(2) Being selfish can maximize my pleasure and minimize my displeasure
(3) Therefore I will be selfish.

Does this make me immoral? Perhaps. Do I care? Well, if I cared then my caring would create a pleasure. I can not accept this argument and care if caring necessarily creates a displeasure because then (1) is false. But how dafuq could I not accept (1)? It is self-evident to me. So I guess you could argue that (2) is false, but I've been selfish in the past and it maximized my pleasure, so I can't really disagree with it. If I am to be selfish then I am to enjoy it.

Indivdude
09-23-2013, 10:40 PM
I'm not arguing anything. Your statement is still an assumption. Let us assume free will exists, and suicide is an option. One must take into consideration the impact of a suicide on others. If my goal is peace, why then would I impose distress on my family and loved ones? Why would I impose distress on police who have to clean up my dead body when I blow my brains out or jump off a balcony? There are other things to take into consideration.

I thought about it... the more I realized that I should just blow my brains out and end it all. But then I thought, well, if I thought more about blowing my brains out... I start worrying about what that was going to do to my goddamn carpet.










Before I get banned, its from Matchstick Men.

A-GAME
09-23-2013, 11:04 PM
\

Does this make me immoral?

Not from my perspective. In fact, I would suggest doing whatever makes you happy wholeheartedly. If being selfish makes you happy, go for it. Who am I to judge?

A-GAME
09-23-2013, 11:06 PM
I thought about it... the more I realized that I should just blow my brains out and end it all. But then I thought, well, if I thought more about blowing my brains out... I start worrying about what that was going to do to my goddamn carpet.










Before I get banned, its from Matchstick Men.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2vnjb43.jpg

Posthardcore
09-24-2013, 09:20 AM
That's a complicated question. I always have been, that's all I know. The philosophy I choose to read and my political ideology probably doesn't help. I just have always thought that since I only experience my consciousness, I should optimize around that.

What's your political ideology so I can conveniently correlate it with selfishness? :D

I kid I kid.

DizzySmalls
09-24-2013, 09:35 AM
What's your political ideology so I can conveniently correlate it with selfishness? :D

I kid I kid.
A libertarian in terms of policy, but not really in terms of their rational human based ideology. I'm largely a minarchist in terms of principles, but recognize the need to be pragmatic to deal with the current situation.

GreatOldOne
09-24-2013, 10:37 AM
Sorry let me elaborate:

(1) I want to take the course of action which maximizes my pleasure and minimizes my displeasure.
(2) Being selfish can maximize my pleasure and minimize my displeasure
(3) Therefore I will be selfish.

Does this make me immoral? Perhaps. Do I care? Well, if I cared then my caring would create a pleasure. I can not accept this argument and care if caring necessarily creates a displeasure because then (1) is false. But how dafuq could I not accept (1)? It is self-evident to me. So I guess you could argue that (2) is false, but I've been selfish in the past and it maximized my pleasure, so I can't really disagree with it. If I am to be selfish then I am to enjoy it.

I suppose the morality question would be how you end up defining self and how you think it's a good idea to go about achieving #1. Regardless, there's nothing to say if you have the most evil, hollow, illusory sense of self and other 'selves' that you shouldn't actually pursue that. I suspect that once you realize certain aspects of self the way you approach #1 could change over time...but who knows?

On a merely practical level as long as you keep your eye to the future and be realistic about what you expect to happen from any actions you take you're not likely to burn any major bridges.

CRyan64
09-25-2013, 09:05 PM
Regardless, there's nothing to say if you have the most evil, hollow, illusory sense of self and other 'selves' that you shouldn't actually pursue that. I suspect that once you realize certain aspects of self the way you approach #1 could change over time...but who knows?

Certainly I'm not asserting that being selfish necessarily optimizes pleasure. In fact, I don't remember the last time I was selfish (I define selfishness as an action which provides me a pleasure at the expense of another person's pleasure -- rendering them a dis-pleasurable experience.) I'm saying that if, in some circumstance, being selfish were to optimize my pleasure, then surely I would be selfish. But what brings me the greatest pleasure is up for debate. I do not know for certain what could optimize my pleasure; perhaps altruism could provide me the greatest pleasure? I do not know. So in that sense I should have made (2) a conditional "if...then" statement.

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 11:22 AM
Bump to see if anyone can come up with something different

GreatOldOne
10-06-2013, 12:46 PM
Bump to see if anyone can come up with something different

Considering the worth question...I'm still trying to figure out how you plan on getting paid for living one way or the other.

If nobody is present to be paid, then what happened....a sum of good and bad things. One was greater than the other.

kusok
10-06-2013, 01:59 PM
female ass.

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 02:12 PM
Considering the worth question...I'm still trying to figure out how you plan on getting paid for living one way or the other.

If nobody is present to be paid, then what happened....a sum of good and bad things. One was greater than the other.
Which question now? Sry not sure what you mean


female ass.
Best answer so far IMO

Thexzeno
10-06-2013, 02:15 PM
Death is my purpose for living, not some arbitrary goal(making money, travelling the world, family etc) knowing that i was given consciousness for such a limited amount of time gives me enough reason to live to experience this beautiful hell hole full force. Life has always been this great paradox; I wake up everyday contemplating whether or not i should commit suicide, then I realize that by doing so id just be cheating myself out of various experiences.

Id argue that death is the only reason any of us live. When given a limited time frame to accomplish something, you try your hardest to achieve it do you not?

Dioskouori
10-06-2013, 04:20 PM
Having trouble buying into religious promises of an after life has led me to the typically grim atheist conclusion that there is no "after". accepting there is no "after"and knowing no one gets out of life alive, I understand that this is all I have and as such it is my prerogative to get as much out of, and try to make as much of a positive impact as possible so that proceeding generations can do the same.

Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. What else is there??

GreatOldOne
10-06-2013, 04:28 PM
Which question now? Sry not sure what you mean


That's the answer, not the question.

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 04:38 PM
That's the answer, not the question.
Still lost lol

lasher
10-06-2013, 04:42 PM
Still lost lol

You both consider the end results of your lives to be a dirt nap. And the end result of humanity to be pointless extinction. You're just saying it in different words and talking past each other.

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 04:43 PM
You both consider the end results of your lives to be a dirt nap. And the end result of humanity to be pointless extinction. You're just saying it in different words and talking past each other.
Definitely on the same page on that point. Obviously given that, there is no actual purpose or objective that humans must complete (with what we know now).

I bet you feel smug prancing in here with your meaning and purpose. :p

lasher
10-06-2013, 05:05 PM
Definitely on the same page on that point. Obviously given that, there is no actual purpose or objective that humans must complete (with what we know now).

I bet you feel smug prancing in here with your meaning and purpose. :p

I feel that's a bit unfair, since I implied no such thing in my analysis of the dynamic you two were playing with. Obviously knowing my beliefs a priori you can insert that into what I said. But I was just making commentary on what I understood your beliefs to be, and I inserted nothing about what my beliefs are.

I reject the smugness charge.

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 05:07 PM
I feel that's a bit unfair, since I implied no such thing in my analysis of the dynamic you two were playing with. Obviously knowing my beliefs a priori you can insert that into what I said. But I was just making commentary on what I understood your beliefs to be, and I inserted nothing about what my beliefs are.

I reject the smugness charge.
The only evidence of smugness is in the refutation of the charge. Worked perfectly :p

I blame your religion for my obsession with this topic BTW. It doesn't seem to bother most people who weren't ardent Christians during their formative years. After all of this time, it's still only the lacking of a transcendental purpose or justification that gives me trouble.

All we can do is invent and fake or disregard such things and die slowly. Most people seem fine dying slowly if it's comfortable.

lasher
10-06-2013, 05:30 PM
The only evidence of smugness is in the refutation of the charge. Worked perfectly :p

that's a pretty weak piece of evidence. But you can have it.



I blame your religion for my obsession with this topic BTW. It doesn't seem to bother most people who weren't ardent Christians during their formative years. After all of this time, it's still only the lacking of a transcendental purpose or justification that gives me trouble.

Interesting observation. I was not an ardent Christian during my formative years. These questions do bother me though, a great deal.

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 05:38 PM
Interesting observation. I was not an ardent Christian during my formative years. These questions do bother me though, a great deal.
You are a Christian now, which means you are invested in the same concept. Without exposure to the poison that is post-death salvation, I would expect less existential concerns.

lasher
10-06-2013, 05:41 PM
You are a Christian now, which means you are invested in the same concept. Without exposure to the poison that is post-death salvation, I would expect less existential concerns.

This is true, I don't have a paralyzing issue with post-death existential concerns. That doesn't mean I don't question my beliefs and ponder if I am wrong about them though, which does lead to nights where I do wrestle with the same issues. I guess it's a matter of frequency.

GreatOldOne
10-06-2013, 05:42 PM
You are a Christian now, which means you are invested in the same concept. Without exposure to the poison that is post-death salvation, I would expect less existential concerns.

IMO even the Christian should face this. Do you perform good acts in the face of defeat with no reward?

That IMO speaks directly to the nature of 'what is good' and whether it should ever be pursued.

BigManTJ
10-06-2013, 05:44 PM
Advancement of the soul.
Learning life lessons through experiences here.
Become a better human being then become a better/positive soul.

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 05:45 PM
IMO even the Christian should face this. Do you perform good acts in the face of defeat with no reward?

That IMO speaks directly to the nature of 'what is good' and whether it should ever be pursued.
At that point "good" is kind of pointless, no?

EDIT: Didn't even see your edit. Yes it does speak to that question

GreatOldOne
10-06-2013, 05:58 PM
At that point "good" is kind of pointless, no?

EDIT: Didn't even see your edit. Yes it does speak to that question

If good is a value, such as...a sound, or a color. It has value.

The value refers to existence and no more questioning is needed about what it is.

That is not to say you must be good or bad. From your perspective IMO you do what you want.

But you know what you do. It is pointless if you think an imaginary being is going to be keeping score and hand out rewards...and that is why you did whatever you did. IMO that is why a Christian pursuit of good is pointless as means to an eternal end. Their eye is on something else...not reality that we could ever hope to know.

It is not IMO pointless if you pursued whatever you thought it was because that was the value you perceived.

It would be like seeking out food when you're hungry. This is not to say you could not be wrong...If we know anything, it is that we can be wrong....IMO.

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 06:12 PM
If good is a value, such as...a sound, or a color. It has value.

The value refers to existence and no more questioning is needed about what it is.

You are saying it has a value in that it is perceived by a human lens, like a sound or a color, but that doesn't have an independent existence (would that even be relevant?)?



That is not to say you must be good or bad. From your perspective IMO you do what you want.

But you know what you do. It is pointless if you think an imaginary being is going to be keeping score and hand out rewards...and that is why you did whatever you did. IMO that is why a Christian pursuit of good is pointless as means to an eternal end. Their eye is on something else...not reality that we could ever hope to know.

It is not IMO pointless if you pursued whatever you thought it was because that was the value you perceived.

It would be like seeking out food when you're hungry. This is not to say you could not be wrong...If we know anything, it is that we can be wrong....IMO.
I don't think that our sense of the good is all as much pre-embedded as hunger is. There are some other tendencies in behavior that are certainly genetically based, but the vast majority of humans sense of values is determined by the arbitrary social environment in which they are raised and behaviorally/cognitively conditioned. The passing down of values is not pointless in a practical sense, but as you admit it doesn't give any veracity or necessity to those values.

GreatOldOne
10-06-2013, 06:35 PM
You are saying it has a value in that it is perceived by a human lens, like a sound or a color, but that doesn't have an independent existence (would that even be relevant?)?

Does the look of the color red have an independent existence? I think it must. I think Good is like that, only less discernible. More likely to be wrong. More easily corrupted in terms of what we are able to perceive by the glasses crafted for us by society.

Your objection is...well, is God at the end of this? My response is what do you mean by the word God?

I don't think objective reality existing is a far stretch.



I don't think that our sense of the good is all as much pre-embedded as hunger is. There are some other tendencies in behavior that are certainly genetically based, but the vast majority of humans sense of values is determined by the arbitrary social environment in which they are raised and behaviorally/cognitively conditioned. The passing down of values is not pointless in a practical sense, but as you admit it doesn't give any veracity or necessity to those values.

Personally I think our usage of moral words refers to emotions, which is rooted in biology, which is rooted in reality...which is whatever absurd thing we know we have but cannot logically explain.

Good/evil are high level constructs and not greatly useful IMO in the presence of actual explanations for human behavior in terms of societal influence, rewards/punishments, observation, conditioning...etc...

That's not to say there's no reference for 'bad things'.

GreatOldOne
10-06-2013, 06:45 PM
My goal?

Live as much as possible as opposed to work as much as possible.

Wanna surf as much as I can, start a family, obtain financial freedom.

Look back and say, "yeah, I owned life" instead of "life owned me"

Good luck with it bro. How'd you learn how to surf? I'm on the east cost, and honestly I do see surfers but to be frank this is boogie board territory.

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 06:50 PM
Does the look of the color red have an independent existence? I think it must. I think Good is like that, only less discernible. More likely to be wrong. More easily corrupted in terms of what we are able to perceive by the glasses crafted for us by society.

Your objection is...well, is God at the end of this? My response is what do you mean by the word God?

I don't think objective reality existing is a far stretch.

I don't agree that a color has to exist. The perception of color exists, but this is caused by a wavelength of light. I don't think that the wavelength of light is a color. There's way too much processing between that wavelength of light and the perception of a colored image.



Personally I think our usage of moral words refers to emotions, which is rooted in biology, which is rooted in reality...which is whatever absurd thing we know we have but cannot logically explain.

Good/evil are high level constructs and not greatly useful IMO in the presence of actual explanations for human behavior in terms of societal influence, rewards/punishments, observation, conditioning...etc...

That's not to say there's no reference for 'bad things'.
Conditioning is effective through biological means. The early life conditioning a child receives will effect the specific emotional reactions to certain stimuli. Whatever circumstances or cultural ideas lead to the specific cultural quirks of morality, I don't see how any of that is ever validated as "good". I think the emotional responses exist, and they are somewhat constrained by their nature, bit the environment greatly effects how they will be expressed.

Indivdude
10-06-2013, 06:54 PM
http://www.uwishunu.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/cherryblossom.jpg

squanto
10-06-2013, 06:57 PM
Christopher Hitchens responded to this question once saying "to be free, and to help others be free", I like that

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 06:59 PM
Christopher Hitchens responded to this question once saying "to be free, and to help others be free", I like that
Automaton pls

CRyan64
10-06-2013, 07:00 PM
As much as I love philosophy, sometimes I just wish I never got into it. Sometimes I would prefer innocence of mind, feeling that life is full of magic, like how I felt when I was a kid. Though on the other hand, philosophy and introspection (and logic) have been the greatest tools for me in coming at peace with myself. In that sense I feel very fortunate to have stumbled upon the path that I have. I remember back in high school, it's like my whole life revolved around trying to be cool LOL.

GreatOldOne
10-06-2013, 07:01 PM
I don't agree that a color has to exist. The perception of color exists, but this is caused by a wavelength of light. I don't think that the wavelength of light is a color. There's way too much processing between that wavelength of light and the perception of a colored image.

It's hard to deny that the color in your visual field actually exists. It's weird, but the illusion exists. This IMO extends to every other thing you are aware of including math, logic, etc...



Conditioning is effective through biological means. The early life conditioning a child receives will effect the specific emotional reactions to certain stimuli. Whatever circumstances or cultural ideas lead to the specific cultural quirks of morality, I don't see how any of that is ever validated as "good". I think the emotional responses exist, and they are somewhat constrained by their nature, bit the environment greatly effects how they will be expressed.

Regarding validation, you could take a survey.

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 07:02 PM
As much as I love philosophy, sometimes I just wish I never got into it. Sometimes I would prefer innocence of mind, feeling that life is full of magic, like how I felt when I was a kid. Though on the other hand, philosophy and introspection (and logic) have been the greatest tools for me in coming at peace with myself. In that sense I feel very fortunate to have stumbled upon the path that I have. I remember back in high school, it's like my whole life revolved around trying to be cool LOL.
I can identify with this 100%. I'm almost on the boat that you should forcibly try to infuse some of that magic/significance back into it.

GreatOldOne
10-06-2013, 07:04 PM
As much as I love philosophy, sometimes I just wish I never got into it. Sometimes I would prefer innocence of mind, feeling that life is full of magic, like how I felt when I was a kid. Though on the other hand, philosophy and introspection (and logic) have been the greatest tools for me in coming at peace with myself. In that sense I feel very fortunate to have stumbled upon the path that I have. I remember back in high school, it's like my whole life revolved around trying to be cool LOL.

Get out while you can.

Bunpitsu
10-06-2013, 07:05 PM
The chief purpose of life is to enjoy it, which is what I am doing.

I am also spending my life producing work which will almost certainly outlast it; namely, novels and short stories, along with paintings.

That's my purpose, as far as I'm concerned.

ND32
10-06-2013, 07:05 PM
I'm getting to that age where I would love to have a son and pass on my family legacy. I've started to catch myself tossing a baseball with a mini me and coaching his teams. Providing him ample opportunity, advice, and wisdom to succeed in life and be better than I was.

GreatOldOne
10-06-2013, 07:05 PM
I can identify with this 100%. I'm almost on the boat that you should forcibly try to infuse some of that magic/significance back into it.

Taken to its logical conclusion...the magic infused with reality is not the happy kind.

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 07:05 PM
It's hard to deny that the color in your visual field actually exists. It's weird, but the illusion exists. This IMO extends to every other thing you are aware of including math, logic, etc...
The illusion of red exists, that is not the color red existing to me.

Regarding validation, you could take a survey.
The tendency of biology and culture does not give any actual validation though. A consensus that the world is flat does not make it so. And either way, evolution has no normative qualities. It's an unconcerned process in relationship to morality and only relates because of it's procreative benefits.

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 07:08 PM
Taken to its logical conclusion...the magic infused with reality is not the happy kind.
Oh I'm aware. But irrationality and passion should overrule logic and reason and to hell with reality. To the extent you are capable. Why not?

Dioskouori
10-06-2013, 07:10 PM
I can identify with this 100%. I'm almost on the boat that you should forcibly try to infuse some of that magic/significance back into it.

Children. Logic doesn't work on them AT ALL, and they will help you see the magic that exists in the world. Till they turn into teenagers.

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 07:15 PM
Children. Logic doesn't work on them AT ALL, and they will help you see the magic that exists in the world. Till they turn into teenagers.
Anybody else ever feel a bit bad for your parents when you were a bit older for having lost your childlike qualities? Hard to describe, but just not being able to provide that happiness or significance to them anymore?

GreatOldOne
10-06-2013, 07:15 PM
The tendency of biology and culture does not give any actual validation though. A consensus that the world is flat does not make it so. And either way, evolution has no normative qualities. It's an unconcerned process in relationship to morality and only relates because of it's procreative benefits.

You have to admit that an illusion of any kind to which you are aware actually exists as such (illusory). Base inputs and subjective experience are IMO the only 'no chit this is real' thing we have access to.

The consensus aspect is more important than you might think at first. Over time, you can identify bias and understand your results further. Nothing ever says IMO that you cannot ever be wrong.

Consider if everyone on Earth knows what Good is. All the sentient dolphins on other planets feel like they know for sure we are inverted and wrong. They outnumber us.

We can still be correct, which I think is your point but I'm not sure.

IMO regarding human behavior...the question is how deep do you want to go before you admit something you are doing is fuked up? There is always a planet of highly intelligent dolphins agreeing with you somewhere in the universe that you are A-OK...but everyone here will think you are twisted.

ojydNb3Lrrs

jzma
10-06-2013, 07:16 PM
My goal is to make my signature be called an autograph.




Oooooooooooohhhh. But I'm not a rapper.

GreatOldOne
10-06-2013, 07:21 PM
Anybody else ever feel a bit bad for your parents when you were a bit older for having lost your childlike qualities? Hard to describe, but just not being able to provide that happiness or significance to them anymore?

Yes. You have to manage it carefully IMO.

I spared my grandparents and my father from my heathen ways. I'm not sure I can do the same with my mother.

Dioskouori
10-06-2013, 07:23 PM
Anybody else ever feel a bit bad for your parents when you were a bit older for having lost your childlike qualities? Hard to describe, but just not being able to provide that happiness or significance to them anymore?

Talk to your parents more. I will almost guarantee that they will disagree with that assessment of what you bring to them.

I joked about the teenager thing because my girls just hit that age. New experiences lead to new wonders and the realization that I was that age once and did the same things to my parents which led to new appreciation of them.

GreatOldOne
10-06-2013, 07:26 PM
Talk to your parents more. I will almost guarantee that they will disagree with that assessment of what you bring to them.

I joked about the teenager thing because my girls just hit that age. New experiences lead to new wonders and the realization that I was that age once and did the same things to my parents which led to new appreciation of them.

Some parents do not appreciate this kind of discussion...in any way. I'm about to be 37 so I'm aging out of a certain crowd...but yeah...

They don't want to hear this chit.

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 07:29 PM
You have to admit that an illusion of any kind to which you are aware actually exists as such (illusory). Base inputs and subjective experience are IMO the only 'no chit this is real' thing we have access to.

The consensus aspect is more important than you might think at first. Over time, you can identify bias and understand your results further. Nothing ever says IMO that you cannot ever be wrong. There's nothing about it to me that has to do truly with right and wrong instead of common preference that could be rooted in a number of things

Consider if everyone on Earth knows what Good is. All the sentient dolphins on other planets feel like they know for sure we are inverted and wrong. They outnumber us.

We can still be correct, which I think is your point but I'm not sure.

IMO regarding human behavior...the question is how deep do you want to go before you admit something you are doing is fuked up? There is always a planet of highly intelligent dolphins agreeing with you somewhere in the universe that you are A-OK...but everyone here will think you are twisted.

But you are presuming that any of the dolphins are right. I don't think it is possible to be right on that matter, because right and wrong are not modifiers that apply. There are just emotional reactions and explanations for those actions, all morally neutral.

If I have an existential preference that is shared by no other person (or dolphin) in the universe, it is not "wrong" for that fact. It is unusual, deviant, rare, abnormal etc.

Other people's preferences following a pattern or not does not actually constitute morality to me.

As to how deep do I want to go? Theoretically as deep as I want, right? There's also the element of society having a pretty good setup for enforcing the unacceptability of certain behaviors. The legal system makes crime unappealing to a lot of people who can have a significantly higher quality of life without getting involved.

But what if you are a ruler with absolute power? Isn't that really when the tests of "morality" would come? If you have absolute power, a perspective consisting only of your own experiences, a limited amount of time, no purpose, and no ultimate consequences for your actions... well then what is holding you back about society?

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 07:34 PM
Some parents do not appreciate this kind of discussion...in any way. I'm about to be 37 so I'm aging out of a certain crowd...but yeah...

They don't want to hear this chit.
IDK what you mean about aging out of a crowd and whatnot, but my parents don't do any discussion of such things whatsoever. It must be an old school inherited thing. Nothing emotional whatsoever, it would just make everyone uncomfortable.

GreatOldOne
10-06-2013, 07:46 PM
I'm not presuming the dolphins are right. Nor that anybody gets to find out the answer to this question. But I have my take and if the dolphins from another planet say I'm wrong about what seems obviously a good thing for me, I'll fight them. One of us will be right and one of us will win.

Whatever your existential preference as to your perception of right and wrong are IMO will fall in a universal plot of whoever judged such a thing (or could possible judge with similar information).

Regarding the ruler aspect...I personally think the best judge of what you think is right and wrong is whatever you will do in a certain case that will go (as far as you know) unnoticed by any other person or thing...when you have control. Aside from legality, judgement, etc...

But the translation to ruler an society is certainly relevant.

Perhaps a more relevant question to the OP is do you think you can find meaning in words, and not in life?

I personally don't think words have meaning. Not like most might assume. But rather uses.

That places their value on will of the one using them, and to me I see that as the stem where other things branch out.

If you see yourself as another aspect of the universe, which IMO you should, then your will whatever it is...is something else that happened.

You can keep chasing 'Why' but I cannot give you any hope for finding it myself.

In regards to the OP, I think we are aspects of the universe which ask such foolish questions.

If you want to go further and anthropomorphize the universe and place all of this in perspective you can understand...the 'Why' is dark and bleak. Best not to think about it. If you do that, for no reason IMO, you would logically conclude that the universe and your place in it is not insignificant, but rather another ant to be stepped upon by reality and on purpose.

Dissilude self, and you are left with values as they come and go...including good and evil.

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 07:52 PM
I'm not presuming the dolphins are right. Nor that anybody gets to find out the answer to this question. But I have my take and if the dolphins from another planet say I'm wrong about what seems obviously a good thing for me, I'll fight them. One of us will be right and one of us will win.

Whatever your existential preference as to your perception of right and wrong are IMO will fall in a universal plot of whoever judged such a thing (or could possible judge with similar information).

Regarding the ruler aspect...I personally think the best judge of what you think is right and wrong is whatever you will do in a certain case that will go (as far as you know) unnoticed by any other person or thing...when you have control. Aside from legality, judgement, etc...

But the translation to ruler an society is certainly relevant.

Perhaps a more relevant question to the OP is do you think you can find meaning in words, and not in life?

I personally don't think words have meaning. Not like most might assume. But rather uses.

That places their value on will of the one using them, and to me I see that as the stem where other things branch out.

If you see yourself as another aspect of the universe, which IMO you should, then your will whatever it is...is something else that happened.

You can keep chasing 'Why' but I cannot give you any hope for finding it myself.

In regards to the OP, I think we are aspects of the universe which ask such foolish questions.

If you want to go further and anthropomorphize the universe and place all of this in perspective you can understand...the 'Why' is dark and bleak. Best not to think about it.
Not chasing, learning to find ;)

I can't help but think about these things. Obsessive thoughts are what they are. They certainly aren't thoughts you explore with the hopes of being rewarded by the exploration.

It's too late to stop now. One way ticket

Also, I agree on the words thing. The more I argue/discuss things, especially abstract stuff, it becomes clear how definitions are quite important and variable from person to person. The reference the word points to may not even exist as such.

Bezzz
10-06-2013, 07:53 PM
To make my mom proud :)

GreatOldOne
10-06-2013, 07:55 PM
Not chasing, learning to find ;)

I can't help but think about these things. Obsessive thoughts are what they are. They certainly aren't thoughts you explore with the hopes of being rewarded by the exploration.

It's too late to stop now. One way ticket

Welcome to Evil God. No reason to succumb...plenty to fight back and keep up those sand castles. Those are pretty.

LMGYAkUtKQw

I know you were here all along... :)

A-GAME
10-06-2013, 08:28 PM
ITT, "your lifes goal" has been overcome by talk of dolphins. Flip you.

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 08:31 PM
ITT, "your lifes goal" has been overcome by talk of dolphins. Flip you.
Everyone had the same goals more or less. Idk what I was expecting

A-GAME
10-06-2013, 08:54 PM
Everyone had the same goals more or less. Idk what I was expecting


You were probably looking for inspiration because you are lost yourself. I'm guessing you didn't find it?

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 08:56 PM
You were probably looking for inspiration because you are lost yourself. I'm guessing you didn't find it?
Aren't you a wizard...

A-GAME
10-06-2013, 09:02 PM
Aren't you a wizard...


Hardly. I tried to explode a shop keeper with my mind the other day. I was disappoint.

http://th00.deviantart.net/fs71/200H/i/2011/338/c/d/sheldons_brain_explosion_stare_by_brehnman-d4i664a.jpg

GreatOldOne
10-06-2013, 09:13 PM
ITT, "your lifes goal" has been overcome by talk of dolphins. Flip you.

syZakXYypRs

Don't you like dolphins?

A-GAME
10-06-2013, 09:20 PM
pRs

Don't you like daggers?

I do :)

http://www.googlieyes.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Unicorn.jpg

A-GAME
10-06-2013, 09:32 PM
Unfortunately for you OP, there is no purpose in life, and goals are pointless. Free will is a myth and your destiny was mapped out prior to your birth. Not by some imaginary sky daddy, but more likely because two far off planets crashed into one another a billion years ago, setting in motion a chain reaction of events now determining what happens to us. The best we can do is watch life as a passing show on the screen of consciousness and try not to let it rustle out jimmies. Again I quote the silly named half naked Indian.

Whatever is destined not to happen will not happen, try as you may. Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to stop it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent.

This does not refer to worldly silence, he's actually referring to inner silence. Remaining inwardly silent allows your jimmies to remain unrustled. From my experience, this is the only free will have, that is focusing on self instead of mind.

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 10:05 PM
Unfortunately for you OP, there is no purpose in life, and goals are pointless. Free will is a myth and your destiny was mapped out prior to your birth. Not by some imaginary sky daddy, but more likely because two far off planets crashed into one another a billion years ago, setting in motion a chain reaction of events now determining what happens to us. The best we can do is watch life as a passing show on the screen of consciousness and try not to let it rustle out jimmies. Again I quote the silly named half naked Indian.

Whatever is destined not to happen will not happen, try as you may. Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to stop it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent.

This does not refer to worldly silence, he's actually referring to inner silence. Remaining inwardly silent allows your jimmies to remain unrustled. From my experience, this is the only free will have, that is focusing on self instead of mind.
Well we are on the same premises already on everything. The chaotic nature of causation and the ripple effect of every little action on the outcome for the entire system is far beyond human comprehension. Its definitely not some well intentioned designed system.

I'm not sure how things would ever be silent. Meditation all the time?

A-GAME
10-06-2013, 10:27 PM
Well we are on the same premises already on everything. The chaotic nature of causation and the ripple effect of every little action on the outcome for the entire system is far beyond human comprehension. Its definitely not some well intentioned designed system.

I'm not sure how things would ever be silent. Meditation all the time?

Self-enquiry is a better approach IMO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-enquiry

It seems confusing, but it is simple when understood correctly and practiced regularly. Most people treat it like a mantra, repeating "who am i?" to themselves. This is a mistake and will lead you nowhere. The purpose of self enquiry is simply to redirect your attention inward, and away from unnecessary thought. There are a many different techniques (for want of a better word), and they all have the same purpose, to quiet the mind. Choose whichever suits you.

Dioskouori
10-06-2013, 10:27 PM
Well we are on the same premises already on everything. The chaotic nature of causation and the ripple effect of every little action on the outcome for the entire system is far beyond human comprehension. Its definitely not some well intentioned designed system.

I'm not sure how things would ever be silent. Meditation all the time?just stop thinking so much and enjoy the peace it brings

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 10:30 PM
just stop thinking so much and enjoy the peace it brings
You say that like it's purely voluntary what thoughts you have.

Dioskouori
10-06-2013, 10:36 PM
You say that like it's purely voluntary what thoughts you have.nothing worth doing is ever easy my friend. I used to have these sorts of discussions' but honestly, after everything in this thread, do you honestly feel any better now than you did when you started it?

I'm not saying it is easy to shut off the noise. It isn't. but it benifitted me emensly from just spinning my wheels on circular debates.

A-GAME
10-06-2013, 10:41 PM
You say that like it's purely voluntary what thoughts you have.


Dem feels. Anyone who pays attention will be bewildered by the constant rambling we call our thought process. Mostly people just take investigation for granted, and accept thoughts as their own even tho we ultimately have no idea where they come from.

DizzySmalls
10-06-2013, 10:43 PM
nothing worth doing is ever easy my friend. I used to have these sorts of discussions' but honestly, after everything in this thread, do you honestly feel any better now than you did when you started it?

I'm not saying it is easy to shut off the noise. It isn't. but it benifitted me emensly from just spinning my wheels on circular debates.
I gain clarity, I get some thoughts out, and get some input on them. The responses that the thread generated were worthwhile to me.

metroins
10-06-2013, 10:52 PM
I live for two main reasons:

1. My future family and my soon to be wife. I want them to not live the hard life I lived.

2. I want to help as many people as I can and make a difference in people's lives. Primarily through education and learning, to help motivate them to better themselves.

This life has not much to offer me because everything is already too easy. If I want anything, I could attain it. Not just money, but honestly life is extremely easy when you understand everything that is being taught to you, so learning is just a formality or an ends to a means. I don't know everything, but I can learn everything.

I understand not everybody is as gifted as I am, so I try to expand their minds and leave them with a true understanding of knowledge.

Life for me is about other people and helping my fellow man. Hopefully one day I am in politics and can get my message across nationwide, but until then, family knowledge is number 1.

Life is quite boring to me.

Spuddy
10-06-2013, 10:57 PM
If you wish to quiet your mind, stop thinking and start feeling. Every time it occurs to you that you are thinking, erase the thought and focus only on the feeling that is associated with it. If something exciting is happening, forget about the scenario itself, and focus on the feeling tied to it. If something makes you anxious, forget about the scenario, and think only how how it feels with no language or events attached. Once you are aware of which feelings are associated with which events, you begins to recognize all of the dominoes you have in place that lead to a particular outcome based on gut feeling alone, and everything that happens in your life from that moment on will make perfect sense.

Dioskouori
10-06-2013, 11:00 PM
I gain clarity, I get some thoughts out, and get some input on them. The responses that the thread generated were worthwhile to me.Has that clarity eased the burdens of your thoughts, or just led you down a deeper rabbit hole?

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating completely shutting off the mental faculties and living a blissfully ignorant life as some of the more "devout" of religious followers do. Just that sometimes clarity can be found in the silence of your mind as it can in the logical progression of an ideal.

A-GAME
10-06-2013, 11:31 PM
If you wish to quiet your mind, stop thinking and start feeling.


Feelings are nothing more than thoughts. Focusing on feelings is the same as focusing on thoughts. To quiet the mind, we must focus on the space between the thoughts, silence. Everything is consciousness, but problems arise when we identify with the atoms on the screen of consciousness. The trick is to identify with the space between the atoms, and that is pure consciousness.

Spuddy
10-07-2013, 09:01 AM
Feelings are nothing more than thoughts. Focusing on feelings is the same as focusing on thoughts. To quiet the mind, we must focus on the space between the thoughts, silence. Everything is consciousness, but problems arise when we identify with the atoms on the screen of consciousness. The trick is to identify with the space between the atoms, and that is pure consciousness.
When say feelings, I'm referring to one's vibration, not emotional feelings- Translating my thoughts into the wordless feelings without description that they arose from for a long time is how I began to get glimpses of my greater self. Yes it was all just reactionary thoughts for a while, but you definitely know when you have gone beyond surface feelings and into existence itself. I would say that completely blanking your mind is another avenue to take that leads to the same comprehension.

I also feel that there is a misunderstanding to this whole enlightenment process, where people become so focused on trying to remove their mind, that they forget that they incarnated specially TO have a mind. That we are an attempt to create a mind that is capable of comprehending consciousness itself, so that "God" may know who "God" is through the eyes of an enlightened, evolved mind and not just be nothingness. An atom cannot look at itself as if in a mirror and be blown away by what it is.. An ego can. But an unevolved ego is incapable of holding such a high vibration without being overwhelmed with judgments and faults, and that is why humanity has spent millenia evolving the mind to transcend an entire world history's worth of natural judgments. The purpose of our existence is to create a brand new, evolved level of mind that can look at itself consciously without judgment, and yet still be amazed at what It is. Contrary to what many pessimists think about how terrible everyone is, I would say we are literally a brand new version of reality in the process of reaching fruition, and we have overcome nearly impossible odds to even bring the ego this far.

That's just my perspective, at any rate

A-GAME
10-07-2013, 09:14 AM
When say feelings, I'm referring to one's vibration, not emotional feelings- Translating my thoughts into the wordless feelings without description that they arose from for a long time is how I began to get glimpses of my greater self. Yes it was all just reactionary thoughts for a while, but you definitely know when you have gone beyond surface feelings and into existence itself. I would say that completely blanking your mind is another avenue to take that leads to the same comprehension.

You are mistaken. Until the final release, everything you described is imaginary. There are no real glimpses, only concepts popping up from time to time. It's what you imagine reality to be like. No matter what you imagine, you are wrong. Reality is indescribable, unimaginable. It is beyond anything the mind can comprehend.


I also feel that there is a misunderstanding to this whole enlightenment process, where people become so focused on trying to remove their mind, that they forget that they incarnated specially TO have a mind. That we are an attempt to create a mind that is capable of comprehending consciousness itself, so that "God" may know who "God" is through the eyes of an enlightened, evolved mind and not just be nothingness. An atom cannot look at itself as if in a mirror and be blown away by what it is.. An ego can. But an unevolved ego is incapable of holding such a high vibration without being overwhelmed with judgments and faults, and that is why humanity has spent millenia evolving the mind to transcend an entire world history's worth of natural judgments. The purpose of our existence is to create a brand new, evolved level of mind that can look at itself consciously without judgment, and yet still be amazed at what It is. Contrary to what many pessimists think about how terrible everyone is, I would say we are literally a brand new version of reality in the process of reaching fruition, and we have overcome nearly impossible odds to even bring the ego this far.

Spuddy pls. You are just making all of that up. Who said you incarnated to experience mind? Who said all this nonsense about God? You read it in a book, it seems feasible to you and now you are parroting it to me. That is not your experience, so until we wake up, lets just say we don't know. I don't know, but that's ok. The way to find out, is to quiet the mind but so long as you keep guessing and trying to figure it out, you are merely playing with the mind like a toy. This undoubtedly holds you back.


That's just my perspective, at any rate

Who has the perspective?

Dioskouori
10-07-2013, 09:40 AM
When say feelings, I'm referring to one's vibration, not emotional feelings- Translating my thoughts into the wordless feelings without description that they arose from for a long time is how I began to get glimpses of my greater self. Yes it was all just reactionary thoughts for a while, but you definitely know when you have gone beyond surface feelings and into existence itself. I would say that completely blanking your mind is another avenue to take that leads to the same comprehension.

I also feel that there is a misunderstanding to this whole enlightenment process, where people become so focused on trying to remove their mind, that they forget that they incarnated specially TO have a mind. That we are an attempt to create a mind that is capable of comprehending consciousness itself, so that "God" may know who "God" is through the eyes of an enlightened, evolved mind and not just be nothingness. An atom cannot look at itself as if in a mirror and be blown away by what it is.. An ego can. But an unevolved ego is incapable of holding such a high vibration without being overwhelmed with judgments and faults, and that is why humanity has spent millenia evolving the mind to transcend an entire world history's worth of natural judgments. The purpose of our existence is to create a brand new, evolved level of mind that can look at itself consciously without judgment, and yet still be amazed at what It is. Contrary to what many pessimists think about how terrible everyone is, I would say we are literally a brand new version of reality in the process of reaching fruition, and we have overcome nearly impossible odds to even bring the ego this far.

That's just my perspective, at any rate

Emotions are more or less just a precursor to thought. Not exactly what A or I was getting at. It is still the white noise in your heads, even if you don't attach words to it.

He's coming from a Hindi standpoint, I from a Buddhist one.

Granted I'm not trying to teach the OP to find enlightenment. Those are personal journeys to be initiated by the individual. Just pointing out that eventeventually obsessive thoughts will lead to burn out on them. Finding a way that will help you silence them can help bring additional clarity as well as a needed rest for the mind.

Spuddy
10-07-2013, 09:55 AM
You are mistaken. Until the final release, everything you described is imaginary. There are no real glimpses, only concepts popping up from time to time. It's what you imagine reality to be like. No matter what you imagine, you are wrong. Reality is indescribable, unimaginable. It is beyond anything the mind can comprehend.

Feel free to disagree brah :)


Spuddy pls. You are just making all of that up. Who said you incarnated to experience mind? Who said all this nonsense about God? You read it in a book, it seems feasible to you and now you are parroting it to me. That is not your experience, so until we wake up, lets just say we don't know. I don't know, but that's ok. The way to find out, is to quiet the mind but so long as you keep guessing and trying to figure it out, you are merely playing with the mind like a toy. This undoubtedly holds you back.
Of course I am making it up- I am a creator and it's what I do. You won't find anything I said in a book (that I'm aware of) because this is all personal insight.. It came from me.

After silencing my mind for 2 years, I now realize that my part in this journey of enlightenment is not about eliminating the mind, it is about evolving the mind so that it is capable of listening while still being. That is one of the purposes of the human experiment. So I am playing with my mind at every chance- it brings me joy! I love observing how my own ego responds to various situations. I love hindsight. I love having a favorite musical artist, because going to their concerts can blow me away like I never thought possible when I see them for who they truly are instead of simply feeding them energy as a rabid fan. I am creating heaven on Earth, not nothingness. It is not about the end result of nothingness to me, it is about the journey, and I am here as a tiny facet of all that is to enjoy exactly that.


Who has the perspective?
I do. See above for an explanation of the significance of this

GreatOldOne
10-07-2013, 10:01 AM
What do you guys think is the reconciliation between self and no-self?

Mind fuk.

Reality.

Spuddy
10-07-2013, 10:03 AM
Emotions are more or less just a precursor to thought. Not exactly what A or I was getting at. It is still the white noise in your heads, even if you don't attach words to it.

He's coming from a Hindi standpoint, I from a Buddhist one.

Granted I'm not trying to teach the OP to find enlightenment. Those are personal journeys to be initiated by the individual. Just pointing out that eventeventually obsessive thoughts will lead to burn out on them. Finding a way that will help you silence them can help bring additional clarity as well as a needed rest for the mind.
Well-said.

I would still add though, that I am not referring to surface feelings when I say feelings- I am referring to the ability to sense your own vibration itself, which in turn leads to understanding why you feel a certain way about something at an ego level. It is incredibly subtle, and it took a long time for me to sense it in more than just tiny glimpses. Either one can relate to this or one can't, so I guess it really isn't worth saying much beyond that

Spuddy
10-07-2013, 10:08 AM
What do you guys think is the reconciliation between self and no-self?

Mind fuk.

Reality.
I would say the purpose of humanity's existence is to find out exactly that. So basically, there's no real way of knowing from our current position, and when we do know, there will be infinite different answers, all of them correct.

CRyan64
10-07-2013, 10:15 AM
I can identify with this 100%. I'm almost on the boat that you should forcibly try to infuse some of that magic/significance back into it.

I just hate how I inevitably think about existential questions when I introspect / think philosophy. Part of me just wants to get lost in the daily grind again. Never questioning, just doing.
But for years now I've been "thinking about thinking" if you know what I mean. Feelsweirdman.

GreatOldOne
10-07-2013, 10:19 AM
I just hate how I inevitably think about existential questions when I introspect / think philosophy. Part of me just wants to get lost in the daily grind again. Never questioning, just doing.
But for years now I've been "thinking about thinking" if you know what I mean. Feelsweirdman.

Maybe when you get back to the daily grind after thinking about such things it is easier to let 'little things slide'. Obviously good things stand out and you and pursue those. For yourself, others...whatever you got out of thinking about things. Certainly you're more keen on calling BS when that is apparent.

A-GAME
10-07-2013, 09:57 PM
Feel free to disagree brah :)


Of course I am making it up- I am a creator and it's what I do. You won't find anything I said in a book (that I'm aware of) because this is all personal insight.. It came from me.

After silencing my mind for 2 years, I now realize that my part in this journey of enlightenment is not about eliminating the mind, it is about evolving the mind so that it is capable of listening while still being. That is one of the purposes of the human experiment. So I am playing with my mind at every chance- it brings me joy! I love observing how my own ego responds to various situations. I love hindsight. I love having a favorite musical artist, because going to their concerts can blow me away like I never thought possible when I see them for who they truly are instead of simply feeding them energy as a rabid fan. I am creating heaven on Earth, not nothingness. It is not about the end result of nothingness to me, it is about the journey, and I am here as a tiny facet of all that is to enjoy exactly that.


I do. See above for an explanation of the significance of this


You do realize that you are speaking of yourself as mind, and ego right? You do realize that goes against the very foundation of non dualistic teachings right? The entire point of introspection is to gain insight into reality. Reality as you are describing it is dualistic. You are wrongly identifying with the mind and body as your Self. Everything these traditions teach say the complete opposite is true.

A-GAME
10-07-2013, 10:01 PM
What do you guys think is the reconciliation between self and no-self?

Mind fuk.

Reality.

What do you mean? Are you referring to the differences between the Hindu and Buddhist description of reality, that being Hindu Self, and Buddhist no Self?

Spuddy
10-07-2013, 10:37 PM
You do realize that you are speaking of yourself as mind, and ego right? You do realize that goes against the very foundation of non dualistic teachings right? The entire point of introspection is to gain insight into reality. Reality as you are describing it is dualistic. You are wrongly identifying with the mind and body as your Self. Everything these traditions teach say the complete opposite is true.
How could anything possibly go against non-dualistic teachings? The very idea that something can go against anything at all is a concept born of duality.

I take on a broader perspective. Duality is not so much an illusion as it is a very-finely sliced, minute facet of who we actually are. The illusion isn't duality, it's not seeing everything else that is right in front of and within you- To say it it doesn't exist is to deny a part of yourself, and to consciously push away from who you are as a whole.

BEATINGU
10-07-2013, 10:40 PM
screwing sloots and making $$$

what else would it be??

Posthardcore
10-07-2013, 10:42 PM
screwing sloots and making $$$

what else would it be??

How untraditional of you.

A-GAME
10-07-2013, 10:55 PM
How could anything possibly go against non-dualistic teachings? The very idea that something can go against anything at all is a concept born of duality.

You are claiming non-duality, and at the same time considering the ego and mind to be your true self. This is dualistic.


I take on a broader perspective. Duality is not so much an illusion as it is a very-finely sliced, minute facet of who we actually are. The illusion isn't duality, it's not seeing everything else that is right in front of and within you- To say it it doesn't exist is to deny a part of yourself, and to consciously push away from who you are as a whole.

That is the point of non-duality. There is nothing else, hence non-dual. Anything added is false and illusory. Any description is false. You want to have your cake and eat it too. That's fine, but is a dualistic approach. You cannot claim non-duality and at the same time claim that non-duality is made up of dualistic phenomena. Your sig says "Be". That is to say "Be as you are", not be as you imagine your Self to be.

Spuddy
10-07-2013, 11:11 PM
You are claiming non-duality, and at the same time considering the ego and mind to be your true self. This is dualistic.



That is the point of non-duality. There is nothing else, hence non-dual. Anything added is false and illusory. Any description is false. You want to have your cake and eat it too. That's fine, but is a dualistic approach. You cannot claim non-duality and at the same time claim that non-duality is made up of dualistic phenomena. Your sig says "Be". That is to say "Be as you are", not be as you imagine your Self to be.
I don't claim non-duality- I see myself as greater than duality. Oneness, with duality making up the densest layer of it. It may not line up with your idea of enlightenment, but that is how I see it

My sig says exactly what I wrote, nothing more. Any specific interpretations or disagreements you find with it are entirely your own

A-GAME
10-07-2013, 11:17 PM
I don't claim non-duality- I see myself as greater than duality. Oneness, with duality making up the densest layer of it. It may not line up with your idea of enlightenment, but that is how I see it

My sig says exactly what I wrote, nothing more. Any specific interpretations or disagreements you find with it are entirely your own


Fair enough.

DizzySmalls
10-08-2013, 06:51 AM
What do you mean? Are you referring to the differences between the Hindu and Buddhist description of reality, that being Hindu Self, and Buddhist no Self?
Yeah what's with dat atman and anatman

A-GAME
10-08-2013, 07:13 AM
Yeah what's with dat atman and anatman


Semantics. It's a different description of the same thing. The mind loves to create problems where there are none. Both are eternal, beyond suffering etc. Same same but different.