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View Full Version : What does jordan do better then lebron srs



lebronwade4mvp
07-31-2013, 11:28 PM
Im watching lebron tapes and im watching jordan tapes and lebron beats him In everything

jd29
07-31-2013, 11:29 PM
You think Lebron beats Jordan in heart and will to win?

hublife
07-31-2013, 11:32 PM
Better shooter, better 1 on 1 defender and significantly more clutch.

lebronwade4mvp
07-31-2013, 11:32 PM
You think Lebron beats Jordan in heart and will to win?

Im talkin about skillset

khanvictt
07-31-2013, 11:32 PM
You think Lebron beats Jordan in heart and will to win?

http://i.imgur.com/qb4Bish.gif

lebronwade4mvp
07-31-2013, 11:33 PM
Better shooter, better 1 on 1 defender and significantly more clutch.

Nope jordan is only a better shooter from midrange lebron destroys him in three point shooting
Lebron is alsoma better defnder

Onlything ill give you is clutch

jd29
07-31-2013, 11:35 PM
Im talkin about skillset

Better shooter, better 1 on 1 defender like the poster above me said and Jordan is lightyears ahead of Lebron in all of the intangibles

also better free throw shooter, better 3 point shooter, more range

the only thing Lebron does better is distribute

TyreekD
07-31-2013, 11:35 PM
Sell sneakers

Vhagar
07-31-2013, 11:36 PM
dunking

Dave P
07-31-2013, 11:36 PM
No ones gonna call OP out on claiming he has a fcking tape player?


Where would you even GET tapes of both of them?

lebronwade4mvp
07-31-2013, 11:37 PM
Better shooter, better 1 on 1 defender(lol)like the poster above me said and Jordan is lightyears ahead of Lebron in all of the intangibles(lol)

also better free throw shooter, better 3 point shooter, more range( not sure if srs jordan didnt have range and stats prove that lebron amway better 3 point shooter

the only thing Lebron does better is distribute lol

bananabucket
07-31-2013, 11:37 PM
he's better at being a dick

jd29
07-31-2013, 11:38 PM
Nope jordan is only a better shooter from midrange lebron destroys him in three point shooting
Lebron is alsoma better defnder

Onlything ill give you is clutch

You seriously think Lebron is a better 3 point shooter that Jordan

and how do you figure lebron is a better defender?

Jordan definitely averaged more steals and blocks were about the same

Lebron never shut anybody down 1 on 1

Jordan also shot a better fg%

I don't know if you're serious right now to be honest

lebronwade4mvp
07-31-2013, 11:39 PM
You seriously think Lebron is a better 3 point shooter that Jordan

and how do you figure lebron is a better defender?

Jordan definitely averaged more steals and blocks were about the same

Lebron never shut anybody down 1 on 1

Jordan also shot a better fg%

I don't know if you're serious right now to be honest

Eh compare 3 point makes and stats lebron kills jordan bro. Jordan was a terrible 3 point shooter gtfo

arman24
07-31-2013, 11:39 PM
I don't know if you're serious right now to be honest

Look at his username to answer that question...

SpiderSense
07-31-2013, 11:40 PM
Lebron = no mid-range game and not nearly the competitor.

BasketballSaint
07-31-2013, 11:41 PM
Jordan:

1. Stronger
2. Better scorer
3. Clutcher
4. More athletic
5. Better passer
6. Better defender by a long shot
7. Better jump shooter
8. Smarter basketball player
9. Better leader
10. A much better winner

Jordan had 2 seperate 3peats..
He could have had a 4 or 5 straight championship run if he didn't retire.. he didn't go to another team after all those losing seasons, he stuck it out with the Bulls and built chemistry.

Jordan much better than Lebron all around.

lebronwade4mvp
07-31-2013, 11:45 PM
You seriously think Lebron is a better 3 point shooter that Jordan

and how do you figure lebron is a better defender?

Jordan definitely averaged more steals and blocks were about the same

Lebron never shut anybody down 1 on 1

Jordan also shot a better fg%

I don't know if you're serious right now to be honest
Jordan 0.5 makes a game 1.7 attempts a game 32 percent career
Lebron 1.3 makes a game 4.5 attempts 33 percent only getting better

Fg is the most overrated stat in basketball

jd29
07-31-2013, 11:45 PM
Eh compare 3 point makes and stats lebron kills jordan bro. Jordan was a terrible 3 point shooter gtfo



Playoff career averages:
LeBron James: 29.3ppg 8.4reb 7.3ast 45.9%fg 31.6%3pt
Michael Jordan: 33.4ppg 6.4reb 5.7ast 48.7%fg 33.2%3pt

NBA Finals averages for their careers:
Jordan: 33.6ppg 6.0reb 5.9ast 48.0%fg 36.8%3pt
LeBron: 19.5ppg 7.1reb 6.8ast 41.7%fg 27.1%3pt

lebronwade4mvp
07-31-2013, 11:46 PM
Jordan:

1. Stronger
2. Better scorer
3. Clutcher
4. More athletic
5. Better passer
6. Better defender by a long shot
7. Better jump shooter
8. Smarter basketball player
9. Better leader
10. A much better winner

Jordan had 2 seperate 3peats..
He could have had a 4 or 5 straight championship run if he didn't retire.. he didn't go to another team after all those losing seasons, he stuck it out with the Bulls and built chemistry.

Jordan much better than Lebron all around.

Age 16

jd29
07-31-2013, 11:48 PM
Nope jordan is only a better shooter from midrange lebron destroys him in three point shooting
Lebron is alsoma better defnder

Onlything ill give you is clutch


Defensive player of the year awards
Jordan: 1
LeBron: 0

Seasons over 100 blocks:
Jordan: 2
LeBron: 0

Seasons over 200 steals:
Jordan: 6
LeBron: 0

Seasons over 150 steals:
Jordan: 9
LeBron: 1

All-Defensive 1st team selections
LeBron: 3
Jordan: 9



LOL



Pls go now

lebronwade4mvp
07-31-2013, 11:52 PM
Defensive player of the year awards
Jordan: 1
LeBron: 0

Seasons over 100 blocks:
Jordan: 2
LeBron: 0

Seasons over 200 steals:
Jordan: 6
LeBron: 0

Seasons over 150 steals:
Jordan: 9
LeBron: 1

All-Defensive 1st team selections
LeBron: 3
Jordan: 9



LOL



Pls go now

yo do know lebron still has 8-10 years left in the league right you mad

Lebron> jordan

even jordan hall of fame teammates agree lmao

liuzhoudragon
07-31-2013, 11:54 PM
Jordan was the star of space jam ........................name is a great cinematic work that lebron stared in with all our childhood friends.



that right bi.tch, you can't/

jd29
07-31-2013, 11:56 PM
yo do know lebron still has 8-10 years left in the league right you mad

Lebron> jordan

even jordan hall of fame teammates agree lmao

I'm sure none of Lebron's teammates think Jordan is better


You're embarrassing yourself

lebronwade4mvp
07-31-2013, 11:58 PM
I'm sure none of Lebron's teammates think Jordan is better


You're embarrassing yourself

And you know this how? pippen flat out said lebron is a better player then jordan. Ill think ill take his word

Dave P
07-31-2013, 11:58 PM
yo do know lebron still has 8-10 years left in the league right you mad

Lebron> jordan

even jordan hall of fame teammates agree lmao


You do know Jordan left the league in the middle of his prime to go play another sport because he was just beating the living sh!t out of the league right?



I really wish he had just played basketball throughout his career so the stat-nazis would stfu.

MericaBrah
08-01-2013, 12:02 AM
Win championships

sdballer5588
08-01-2013, 12:06 AM
ITT: Retards.

Jordan was only better at midrange shooting, overall scoring, and 1 on 1 defense. He was inferior in all other aspects.

Saying otherwise is stupid. Jordan is the GOAT, but stop claiming he's stronger or that his "will of fire" is a real statistic.




Fanboys gonna fanboy.

Mind obliterated by anyone trying to say Jordan was a better 3 point shooter. You obviously don't even know who Jordan is.

jd29
08-01-2013, 12:08 AM
And you know this how? pippen flat out said lebron is a better player then jordan. Ill think ill take his word

Pippen also said that he was a better player than Jordan

We gonna just take his word on that too?

MurkinSeason
08-01-2013, 12:09 AM
Lebron is so bad at defense

Psyren
08-01-2013, 12:14 AM
win

InsanePain11
08-01-2013, 12:29 AM
Better shooter, better 1 on 1 defender and significantly more clutch.
BOOM! this guy is right on.

Aguy2diefor
08-01-2013, 12:31 AM
Pick a better sidekick

Rebounds45
08-01-2013, 12:40 AM
Better overall scorer. Better shooter. Better free throw shooter (lol I can be a 50/40/90 player if I want to). Not a better 3pt shooter because LeBron kinda got better last season, better 1 on 1 defender. Rebounding? Not really because LeBron is bigger and goes for it. Passing? Well MJ did average 32/8/8 one season but I'm not sure, maybe the system didn't allow anyone to get high assists? Better post player. Better clutch performer. Better in the Finals.

aal04
08-01-2013, 01:28 AM
Hes better at Basketball.

yourname2221
08-01-2013, 02:08 AM
ITT: Retards.

Jordan was only better at midrange shooting, overall scoring, and 1 on 1 defense. He was inferior in all other aspects.

but who was post game.

Smedroc
08-01-2013, 02:18 AM
My man said Jordan was stronger.......wow.

Who would you say was the better athlete in terms of physical gifts??

liuzhoudragon
08-01-2013, 02:36 AM
Jordan better at basketball, baseball, and golf.

Lebron better at jimmy russeling and internet butthurted gifs pics,etc.

HayZues Christi
08-01-2013, 02:37 AM
Fanboys gonna fanboy.

Mind obliterated nt shooter. You obviously don't even know who Jordan is.

Oh the irony...

It was a different league back then, players idnt chuck from 40 feet out aganst defenses that can't even habd check 30 times a game.

If anything, that is more evidence to the superior player jordan was. Jordan was smaller nd playing against more physical defense and still got to the rim and shot a higher percentage.

To answer OP, jordan was a better scorer an defender. Aka basketball player.

ricdvs
08-01-2013, 02:44 AM
Im not american so I dont know this, but wut do you guys mean by clutch?

*DH*
08-01-2013, 02:47 AM
Jordan:

1. Stronger
2. Better scorer
3. Clutcher
4. More athletic
5. Better passer
6. Better defender by a long shot
7. Better jump shooter
8. Smarter basketball player
9. Better leader
10. A much better winner

Jordan had 2 seperate 3peats..
He could have had a 4 or 5 straight championship run if he didn't retire.. he didn't go to another team after all those losing seasons, he stuck it out with the Bulls and built chemistry.

Jordan much better than Lebron all around.

Stop trying to agree with everyone to get repped.

MEGAMANLET
08-01-2013, 02:48 AM
Well for starters Michael was much better at winning.

He was a more lockdown defender, though obviously not as good at blocking shots. He was a better leader. He never would have disappeared like LBJ did against the Mavs in the finals.

Lebron has had some nasty dunks but never seen him dunk from the free throw line. LBJ has ducked the Dunk Contest every year.

DrSlam
08-01-2013, 02:49 AM
LeBron isn't a leader, had to go down to Miami with one /thread

HayZues Christi
08-01-2013, 02:52 AM
Well for starters Michael was much better at winning.

He was a more lockdown defender, though obviously not as good at blocking shots. He was a better leader. He never would have disappeared like LBJ did against the Mavs in the finals.

Lebron has had some nasty dunks but never seen him dunk from the free throw line. LBJ has ducked the Dunk Contest every year.

Jordan averaged more blocks then lebron, including 2 seasons of 100+ blocks to lebrons 0. Don't be fooled by espn playing lebrons chase downs over and over.

You know who blocked more shots then both of them? Dwayne wade...

HarryDick
08-01-2013, 03:04 AM
OP is a flaming phaggot. Are you ****ing serious?

Did you watch the Finals this season? Lebron had 10 feet between him and his defender and was still bricking open jumpers like there's no tomorrow.

On the other hand, Jordan's midrange jumper was gold even with tight defense.

Look at the numbers, Jordan playoff PPG and % are crazy for any NBA player, let alone a shooting guard.

Lebron is a forward and one of the best athletes the NBA has ever seen and he shot 44% in the Finals with the spurs playing very loose man-to-man perimeter defense.

Hardcore_D00d
08-01-2013, 03:06 AM
he had a better team and coach. that's about it

CurryTech777
08-01-2013, 03:09 AM
better at baseball than lebron

has cooler shoes

Rebounds45
08-01-2013, 03:11 AM
he had a better team and coach. that's about it

Yeah man, Phil Jackson was a fukking legend before he came to Chicago. LeBron's got Ray phucking Jesus Shuttlesworth Allen on his team. Multiple time All-Star power forward (brb Horace Grant only once, and that's after Mj retired. Dennis is a different story, but brb MJ, Pip, Rodman are all old) in Chris Bosh. Second best (was I guess) shooting guard in the league playing next to Bron.

Jmart50
08-01-2013, 03:24 AM
The only time LBJ looked like jordan was in that game against he went off on the Pistons when he was with the Cavs. Jordan was doing that every year tho

ballzofpeaze
08-01-2013, 03:52 AM
Yeah man, Phil Jackson was a fukking legend before he came to Chicago. LeBron's got Ray phucking Jesus Shuttlesworth Allen on his team. Multiple time All-Star power forward (brb Horace Grant only once, and that's after Mj retired. Dennis is a different story, but brb MJ, Pip, Rodman are all old) in Chris Bosh. Second best (was I guess) shooting guard in the league playing next to Bron.

Lol fluency in reading this post not even once.

Aguy2diefor
08-01-2013, 03:53 AM
Jordan is better at killing his own father than LBJ.


I win.

DasWunderBrah
08-01-2013, 04:28 AM
You seriously think Lebron is a better 3 point shooter that Jordan

Lebron never shut anybody down 1 on 1


do you even watch basketball?

Anyways Lebron is better at 3s and passing/playmaking and that's it. They have about equal basketball IQ. Everything else Jordan is better.

Anyone who doesn't concede this for Lebron is a straight up Jordan homer/doesn't even watch him play.

bking10
08-01-2013, 04:32 AM
Better shooter, better 1 on 1 defender like the poster above me said and Jordan is lightyears ahead of Lebron in all of the intangibles

also better free throw shooter, better 3 point shooter, more range

the only thing Lebron does better is distribute

actually Jordan wasnt a great 3p shooter. the league actually moved the line closer and he was still average.

jkeithc82
08-01-2013, 04:35 AM
No ones gonna call OP out on claiming he has a fcking tape player?


Where would you even GET tapes of both of them?

Dave I think I'll just call him out on this.

Collegrad
Imaboss13
Iwantjustice90
Lawyerbruh
lebronwade4mvp
Mr2percent
Mrsourceman
Thuglife2014

BullStampede
08-01-2013, 05:01 AM
Cant believe this is two pages. You should all be ashamed.

rocketfish11
08-01-2013, 05:14 AM
Won championships without seeking help

/thread

Dutch24
08-01-2013, 06:05 AM
For starters OP Jordan played in an era where you could play hard defence and there was NO FLOPPING BS.

Understand that rule changes made in 2000 have made the league some what of a joke and more so inflated numbers so idiots like you dont have a clue on how good Jordan was:

The league RULES changed in 1999 to make it EASIER to score.

In 1999, the league eliminated contact by a defender with his hands and forearms both in the backcourt and frontcourt, except on offensive players who caught the ball below the free throw line extended. Defenses were also prohibited from "re-routing" players off the ball. This freed up perimeter players who used screens to get open.

Nor were defenders able any more to grab or impede offensive players setting screens. In 2001, the defensive three-second rule eliminated defenders camping out in the lane away from their offensive man to help.

The rules changes did what they were supposed to do -- open up the game. Scoring average has increased from an average 95.6 points per game in the 1997-98 season to this year's 100 per game. Overall field goal percentage has increased from 45.0 percent in '97-'98 to 45.9 percent this season. Three-point percentage has gone up, from .346 11 years ago to .367 this season. And fouls have gone down, from a league average of 1,837 fouls in 1997 to 1,726 this season.

So stars like Dwight Howard (the league leader in free throw attempts this season with 849), Dwyane Wade (second, 771) and LeBron James (third, 762) can have an even more outsized impact on games.

"You can't even touch a guy now," says Charlotte coach Larry Brown. "The college game is much more physical than our game. I always tease Michael [Jordan], if he played today, he'd average 50."

EsmilRogers
08-01-2013, 06:08 AM
For starters OP Jordan played in an era where you could play hard defence and there was NO FLOPPING BS.

Understand that rule changes made in 2000 have made the league some what of a joke and more so inflated numbers so idiots like you dont have a clue on how good Jordan was:

The league RULES changed in 1999 to make it EASIER to score.

In 1999, the league eliminated contact by a defender with his hands and forearms both in the backcourt and frontcourt, except on offensive players who caught the ball below the free throw line extended. Defenses were also prohibited from "re-routing" players off the ball. This freed up perimeter players who used screens to get open.

Nor were defenders able any more to grab or impede offensive players setting screens. In 2001, the defensive three-second rule eliminated defenders camping out in the lane away from their offensive man to help.

The rules changes did what they were supposed to do -- open up the game. Scoring average has increased from an average 95.6 points per game in the 1997-98 season to this year's 100 per game. Overall field goal percentage has increased from 45.0 percent in '97-'98 to 45.9 percent this season. Three-point percentage has gone up, from .346 11 years ago to .367 this season. And fouls have gone down, from a league average of 1,837 fouls in 1997 to 1,726 this season.

So stars like Dwight Howard (the league leader in free throw attempts this season with 849), Dwyane Wade (second, 771) and LeBron James (third, 762) can have an even more outsized impact on games.

"You can't even touch a guy now," says Charlotte coach Larry Brown. "The college game is much more physical than our game. I always tease Michael [Jordan], if he played today, he'd average 50."

LOL at this phaggot comparing 97-98 stats to today. How about you look at league stats from the late 80s/early 90s when Jordan was having his best seasons? You know, when league points per game and shooting percentages were higher than now?

RonnieRockstar
08-01-2013, 06:22 AM
Won championships without seeking help

/thread

You realize Jordans playoff record BEFORE Scottie came in was 1-9 with NO CHAMPIONSHIPS right? Yes LBJ left CavLand, but who can blame him. Can anyone honestly say the Cavs team of 2007 had a shot at the beating the Spurs? Seriously? MJ is the GOAT, NO DOUBT, but thats not to say LBJ doesnt have "the potential" to be just as great.

Defending wise, I remember seeing MJ play ANYONE, he always had them on lock, LBJ, doesnt compare.

Stronger and "more atheltic".... MJ-6'6 215lbs (playing ball times) LBJ-6'8 250lbs LBJ is a beast more than MJ in this catagory.

Shooting wise...MJ wins.

Clutch factor, MJ wins again, but give credit to LBJ he has been becoming more clutch these past two seasons...point and case GAME 6 2013 NBA FINALS.

Overall you cant compare MJ's carreer stats and highlights when at the same age in their career's

MJ-2 NBA MVP's, 1 NBA Championship, 1 NBA Finals MVP

LBJ- 4 NBA MVP's, 2 NBA Championships, and 2 NBA Finals MVP's

Because if that was that case, LeBron is literally TWICE the player MJ was at the ripe age of 28....

BullStampede
08-01-2013, 06:37 AM
For starters OP Jordan played in an era where you could play hard defence and there was NO FLOPPING BS.

Understand that rule changes made in 2000 have made the league some what of a joke and more so inflated numbers so idiots like you dont have a clue on how good Jordan was:

The league RULES changed in 1999 to make it EASIER to score.

In 1999, the league eliminated contact by a defender with his hands and forearms both in the backcourt and frontcourt, except on offensive players who caught the ball below the free throw line extended. Defenses were also prohibited from "re-routing" players off the ball. This freed up perimeter players who used screens to get open.

Nor were defenders able any more to grab or impede offensive players setting screens. In 2001, the defensive three-second rule eliminated defenders camping out in the lane away from their offensive man to help.

The rules changes did what they were supposed to do -- open up the game. Scoring average has increased from an average 95.6 points per game in the 1997-98 season to this year's 100 per game. Overall field goal percentage has increased from 45.0 percent in '97-'98 to 45.9 percent this season. Three-point percentage has gone up, from .346 11 years ago to .367 this season. And fouls have gone down, from a league average of 1,837 fouls in 1997 to 1,726 this season.

So stars like Dwight Howard (the league leader in free throw attempts this season with 849), Dwyane Wade (second, 771) and LeBron James (third, 762) can have an even more outsized impact on games.

"You can't even touch a guy now," says Charlotte coach Larry Brown. "The college game is much more physical than our game. I always tease Michael [Jordan], if he played today, he'd average 50."

Please tell me you didnt just write all of that out...

CapnSumTingWong
08-01-2013, 06:47 AM
LOL at this thread. LeBron was bailed out by Ray Allen or we'd be making fun of his 1 for 4 record in the NBA Finals. Boris Diaw was doing work on him. BORIS FUKIN DIAW

The Chillosopher
08-01-2013, 06:49 AM
WIN lmao

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oS0E4otixF0/T6rXLwBJFII/AAAAAAAAAK8/H9Uc5_8ZZ94/s1600/michael-jordan-rings.jpg

/thread

wickedman
08-01-2013, 06:58 AM
Jordan 6/6.

DA_MOSS
08-01-2013, 06:58 AM
You realize Jordans playoff record BEFORE Scottie came in was 1-9 with NO CHAMPIONSHIPS right? Yes LBJ left CavLand, but who can blame him. Can anyone honestly say the Cavs team of 2007 had a shot at the beating the Spurs? Seriously? MJ is the GOAT, NO DOUBT, but thats not to say LBJ doesnt have "the potential" to be just as great.



I love when people bring this up..

Please elaborate on how the Bulls trading for a rookie, in Pippen, is even remotely close to LBJ leaving Cleveland to join up with 2 All Stars; not that I blame LBJ at all, he wasnt going anywhere with Cleveland..

LBJ will/should (barring no injuries) go down as one of, if not the, greatest player ever.. Just need to let him actually finish playing 1st..

Oh, MJ avg 36, 6 and 7 those 1st 3 years in the playoffs... just an FYI

TyGuy505
08-01-2013, 07:15 AM
You realize Jordans playoff record BEFORE Scottie came in was 1-9 with NO CHAMPIONSHIPS right? Yes LBJ left CavLand, but who can blame him. Can anyone honestly say the Cavs team of 2007 had a shot at the beating the Spurs? Seriously? MJ is the GOAT, NO DOUBT, but thats not to say LBJ doesnt have "the potential" to be just as great.

Defending wise, I remember seeing MJ play ANYONE, he always had them on lock, LBJ, doesnt compare.

Stronger and "more atheltic".... MJ-6'6 215lbs (playing ball times) LBJ-6'8 250lbs LBJ is a beast more than MJ in this catagory.

Shooting wise...MJ wins.

Clutch factor, MJ wins again, but give credit to LBJ he has been becoming more clutch these past two seasons...point and case GAME 6 2013 NBA FINALS.

Overall you cant compare MJ's carreer stats and highlights when at the same age in their career's

MJ-2 NBA MVP's, 1 NBA Championship, 1 NBA Finals MVP

LBJ- 4 NBA MVP's, 2 NBA Championships, and 2 NBA Finals MVP's

Because if that was that case, LeBron is literally TWICE the player MJ was at the ripe age of 28....



Location Texas

Yankees-heat-clippers

Potatoes gonna potato

swimmer32
08-01-2013, 07:28 AM
NBA Finals averages for their careers:
Jordan: 33.6ppg 6.0reb 5.9ast 48.0%fg 36.8%3pt
LeBron: 19.5ppg 7.1reb 6.8ast 41.7%fg 27.1%3pt

This should end all discussions of who the GOAT is.

DefensiveEnd896
08-01-2013, 09:21 AM
Just watch some of MJ's old games on youtube and that should answer the question who was better

Main thing I love about MJ is how he could float in the air.

brb defender goes to block his shot and is being pulled down to the ground by gravity while MJ is still in the air giving him a wide open look.

gNdZHWjFm34

houtexans23
08-01-2013, 10:01 AM
You realize Jordans playoff record BEFORE Scottie came in was 1-9 with NO CHAMPIONSHIPS right? Yes LBJ left CavLand, but who can blame him. Can anyone honestly say the Cavs team of 2007 had a shot at the beating the Spurs? Seriously? MJ is the GOAT, NO DOUBT, but thats not to say LBJ doesnt have "the potential" to be just as great.

Defending wise, I remember seeing MJ play ANYONE, he always had them on lock, LBJ, doesnt compare.

Stronger and "more atheltic".... MJ-6'6 215lbs (playing ball times) LBJ-6'8 250lbs LBJ is a beast more than MJ in this catagory.

Shooting wise...MJ wins.

Clutch factor, MJ wins again, but give credit to LBJ he has been becoming more clutch these past two seasons...point and case GAME 6 2013 NBA FINALS.

Overall you cant compare MJ's carreer stats and highlights when at the same age in their career's

MJ-2 NBA MVP's, 1 NBA Championship, 1 NBA Finals MVP

LBJ- 4 NBA MVP's, 2 NBA Championships, and 2 NBA Finals MVP's

Because if that was that case, LeBron is literally TWICE the player MJ was at the ripe age of 28....

finally someone gets it.


too many fanboys on both ends itt.

BullStampede
08-01-2013, 10:06 AM
Jordan is better at killing his own father than LBJ.


I win.

bump for lolz

bb185
08-01-2013, 10:10 AM
Here is a truthful breakdown...

Jordan
- Scorer
- Midrange
- Defender
- FT's
- Back-to-basket
- Ball security
- Clutch Performance

Other aspects of the game are either a scratch, or belong to LBJ.

CyberSheriff
08-01-2013, 10:16 AM
LOL at this thread. LeBron was bailed out by Ray Allen or we'd be making fun of his 1 for 4 record in the NBA Finals. Boris Diaw was doing work on him. BORIS FUKIN DIAW

Kind of like how Paxson bailed out Jordan?

Lol at how they call that a bailout, when LBJs 20 points in the 4th quarter was the only reason they were even in that game.

FMCMuscle
08-01-2013, 10:19 AM
Kind of like how Paxson bailed out Jordan?

Lol at how they call that a bailout, when LBJs 20 points in the 4th quarter was the only reason they were even in that game.


That wasn't an elimination game.

Mitch1313
08-01-2013, 10:20 AM
Lebron plays in a little bitch pussy league now.

BasketballSaint
08-01-2013, 10:20 AM
Age 16

Wouldn't that mean I'm riding Lebron since I grew up watching him rather than Michael?

Nah, I've seen a lot of game film and I have all 6 of the championship DVDs.

Pls leave

HayZues Christi
08-01-2013, 10:23 AM
Kind of like how Paxson bailed out Jordan?

Lol at how they call that a bailout, when LBJs 20 points in the 4th quarter was the only reason they were even in that game.

wasn't an elimination game for the bulls, and they were not losing.

FMCMuscle
08-01-2013, 10:24 AM
If you watched the 2011 Finals, you would know.

BasketballSaint
08-01-2013, 10:27 AM
Stop trying to agree with everyone to get repped.

Nobody is trying to agree with anyone you dumb ass phaggot, Jordan is the superior player to Lebron.

Kobe > Jordan doe


LMAO @ u phaggotz saying Lebron is more athletic than Jordan was.. have you even seen phuking Jordan play?
Did chit on the court Lebron can't even execute properly in his dreams

inb4 16

brb more basketball skill & knowledge than all of Misc.
brb grew up loving Lakers & Kobe cus mom was huge Laker & Magic fan so I was fascinated in the 80s & 90s basketball.
brb Jordan was exceedingly better than Lebron at everything.
brb Lebron blocks Tiago Splitter and he thinks he deserves DPOY.
brb Kobe blocks Yao Ming, nuff sed.
brb Jerry West > Lebron

DefensiveEnd896
08-01-2013, 10:35 AM
also the fadeaway.. No one mastered it the way MJ did..

xV_ppT8QbW8

LikeAMachine
08-01-2013, 10:38 AM
Can't believe no one has said this.


Wins more Championships

jd29
08-01-2013, 12:20 PM
Lebron is a much better flopper

sdballer5588
08-01-2013, 12:24 PM
but who was post game.

You think Jordan is banging in the post the same way LeBron is.


You're retarded, go rewatch some Jordan game footage. They both use their post games in the same exact manner - when it's an advantage. Difference is, LeBron is backing down SIGNIFICANTLY bigger defenders.


Gun to my head I'm taking LeBron in the post, simply because he can STILL improve, and he has the physical tools.

CyberSheriff
08-01-2013, 12:40 PM
wasn't an elimination game for the bulls, and they were not losing.

What do you mean they weren't losing? and even if that wasn't an elimination game, game 7 was in Phoenix and that 3 was huge.

btw like how you still ignored the fact that they were down double digits going into that 4th quarter before LBJ brought them back to take the lead.

DefensiveEnd896
08-01-2013, 12:51 PM
What do you mean they weren't losing? and even if that wasn't an elimination game, game 7 was in Phoenix and that 3 was huge.

btw like how you still ignored the fact that they were down double digits going into that 4th quarter before LBJ brought them back to take the lead.

How did Paxson bail MJ out though? Jordan passed the ball to Pippen who passed it to Grant who passed it to a wide open Paxson.. U act like MJ threw up a brick like LeBron did...

GnAr4I3-Z48

sdballer5588
08-01-2013, 01:00 PM
How did Paxson bail MJ out though? Jordan passed the ball to Pippen who passed it to Grant who passed it to a wide open Paxson.. U act like MJ threw up a brick like LeBron did...

GnAr4I3-Z48

And you're acting like LeBron wasn't down 5, drilled a three, then was down 3 again, missed a 3 and ray hit it on a rebound.


Ignoring that LeBron HIMSELF led the entire comeback, sans headband.

niknguyen
08-01-2013, 01:04 PM
Kobe > Jordan doe


n

y'all gonna ignore this phaggot said this? Lmfao

bb185
08-01-2013, 01:06 PM
Gun to my head I'm taking LeBron in the post, simply because he can STILL improve, and he has the physical tools.

I saw IG footage of LBJ working on the sky hook..imagine if he added that move to his arsenal.

Would also like to see LBJ add the post fadeaway jumper. MJ mastered that move, and his footwork down low was extremely impressive.

I give the advantage to MJ simply because his post fadeaway jumper was so effective towards the latter half of his career.

Nonetheless, LBJ still has plenty of time to enhance his post game and fadaway, which players tend to develop toward the end of their career.

bb185
08-01-2013, 01:14 PM
y'all gonna ignore this phaggot said this? Lmfao

Lol not even worth a reply.

Kid clearly has no knowledge of basketball, so why even waste your time nomsayin?

DefensiveEnd896
08-01-2013, 01:17 PM
And you're acting like LeBron wasn't down 5, drilled a three, then was down 3 again, missed a 3 and ray hit it on a rebound.


Ignoring that LeBron HIMSELF led the entire comeback, sans headband.

Maybe because the Spurs were giving him wide open jump shots because they didn't respect his jumper. the strategy almost worked too.. U think anyone would try that against MJ?

6 for 6 in the finals LJ fanboy.. Never went to a game 7 against any of those teams either.

Ask 10 people who the greatest bball player ever is majority will say MJ.. LeBron will be lucky to get mentioned once.

krogtaar
08-01-2013, 01:18 PM
LOL at this thread. LeBron was bailed out by Ray Allen or we'd be making fun of his 1 for 4 record in the NBA Finals. Boris Diaw was doing work on him. BORIS FUKIN DIAW

not a Lebron hater but this. lebron bricks what should have been the last shot of game 6, Duncan is out, Bosh gets the rebound and passes to Ray Allen for a clutch 3 to win the game. this is the reason Lebron Fans compare Lebron's 2 rings and 2 FMVPs to Jordan's 6. If not, we would be comparing Lebron's 1 for 4 finals record and history of disappearing when in close out situations to Jordan never letting a close out game come to the point where he needed to be bailed out at the last second by his teammates.

Nitty87
08-01-2013, 01:26 PM
cant help but give defense to jordan 2 100 block seasons is great for a guard
averaged more steals per season
guarded the best player on the team throughout the entire game
mid range game unstoppable
can willingly go to the paint and score
slam dunk contest beast
etc
lebron will need to win twice as many championships in order to be considered in a debate

SRSmiscerIZsrs
08-01-2013, 01:32 PM
WIN lmao

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oS0E4otixF0/T6rXLwBJFII/AAAAAAAAAK8/H9Uc5_8ZZ94/s1600/michael-jordan-rings.jpg

/thread

came in to post this. leaving satisfied.

lebron fanboys are the worst.

Jmart50
08-01-2013, 01:52 PM
jordan played in the hand checking era too

I OuTsiDeR I
08-01-2013, 02:16 PM
Lol at how they call that a bailout, when LBJs 20 points in the 4th quarter was the only reason they were even in that game. You forgot that he would have been the reason they lost the game with the 2 turnovers he had back to back with less than a minute to go. Lebron was beastin before that though then he went full potato. Everyone knows they were extremely lucky to win that game. Will haunt spurs for a LONG TIME.


You think Jordan is banging in the post the same way LeBron is.


You're retarded, go rewatch some Jordan game footage. They both use their post games in the same exact manner - when it's an advantage. Difference is, LeBron is backing down SIGNIFICANTLY bigger defenders.


Gun to my head I'm taking LeBron in the post, simply because he can STILL improve, and he has the physical tools. Lebron doesn't even really have a post game IMO. This era's post game means you catch the ball with your back to the basket then you turn and face. With Lebron he turns and faces then drives. He has had some games where he had a good back to the basket post game but majority of the time its turn and face. You can watch Sheed/younger KG/Duncan to see real post games. Only perimeter player with a great overall post game is Kobe, cause he patented his game after Jordan. Hell I think Andre Miller has a better post game then Lebron. Thing is Lebron doesn't need it to be good, but if he had it he would be even more dangerous, and considering how dangerous he already is, it would be scary.

Lebron is backing down SIGNIFICANTLY bigger defenders? This statement is laughable when Lebron is the most physical gifted freak we have seen in the NBA. You got people like Paul George, Paul Pierce, Melo etc. who he is always bigger and stronger than. If by chance coaches do put someone bigger on him, he is not posting them. He tries to take them off the dribble. You don't see him posting West. He backs the ball out to get a running head start at them and because he is much quicker he has the advantage.

bb185
08-01-2013, 02:36 PM
LOL. Let me educate you guys on the reality of the situation...I will preface my argument saying this post is intended for the ignorant fans claiming Pop didn't respect LBJ's jumper and Allen bailed LBJ out...

The reason the Spurs were giving LBJ jump shots was because they needed to clog the lane/paint as much as possible. Pop knew that the Heat were unbeatable if LBJ was attacking the rim, staying aggressive, and finishing down low. He wanted to tempt LBJ into taking jumpers, which he did. Pop was aware if the jumpers were falling, the Spurs stood no chance. After Game 7 when LBJ was hot from outside, he mentioned the Heat can't be beat when "LBJ plays like LBJ."

It isn't because he didn't respect his jumper, LBJ demonstrated during the regular season he was one of the premier mid-range/3 point shooters in the entire NBA. The Spurs were forced to PICK THEIR POISON..let LBJ blow by his defender and finish at the rim or sag off and dare him to shoot. It's an obvious choice.

As for the idiots saying Allen bailed LBJ out..did you forget how they were put in position to tie the game in the first place? The only reason Allen was able to attempt that game tying shot was due to the HEROIC 4th quarter by LBJ. The amount of heart, energy, will, and determination he demonstrated was incredible. LBJ was the SOLE REASON the Heat cut down the lead and why it was even a game late in the 4th. He exerted a ridiculous amount of energy to bring his team back into the game..as far as I'm concerned, it was about time someone helped him out.

NYPat
08-01-2013, 02:50 PM
Jordan is an infinitely better ball handler.

showbe
08-01-2013, 06:18 PM
Jordans better at winning championships and games that count.

Its not even a debate until LBJ can win a couple more rings. Jordan is the GOAT and what other player in the league do you see get compared to as much as MJ?

Every great player gets compared to MJ because he is the best NBA player in history. He put the game back on the map and if he didnt retire to play Baseball he probably would of won another Ring as he was in his prime of his career.

If he didnt retire he probably would of been the first player in NBA history to have 8 straight finals appearances/wins.

Also LBJ will have played much longer than Jordan by the time he retires. Jordan did all of this in a much shorter span than him.

Also MJ is better at baseball then LBJ *troll face*

ClevageGobbler
08-01-2013, 06:50 PM
Jordan was a seasoned veteran since day one. **** this thread.

Hardcore_D00d
08-01-2013, 06:56 PM
lmao at mad as fuk jordan fans. so insecure and raging as fuk. cant handle the truth

bpatel82
08-01-2013, 07:00 PM
lmao at mad as fuk jordan fans. so insecure and raging as fuk. cant handle the truth

Yeah. Jordan fans are insecure. If only you were intelligent enough to figure out that this thread was started by a LeBron nuthugger.

EsmilRogers
08-01-2013, 07:03 PM
Yeah. Jordan fans are insecure. If only you were intelligent enough to figure out that this thread was started by a LeBron nuthugger.

This isn't cricket, patel. **** off.

bpatel82
08-01-2013, 07:05 PM
RED RED RED RED RED RED RED RED

Sorry brah...

JmanTheJuiceman
08-01-2013, 07:05 PM
Holy phuck what is wrong with you people, how does a thread like this last 4 pages??


http://gifs.gifbin.com/012010/1264786758_cleaning_moving_walkway.gif

Barcelonaahl
08-01-2013, 07:35 PM
Well for starters Michael was much better at winning.

He was a more lockdown defender, though obviously not as good at blocking shots. He was a better leader. He never would have disappeared like LBJ did against the Mavs in the finals.

Lebron has had some nasty dunks but never seen him dunk from the free throw line. LBJ has ducked the Dunk Contest every year.
I got some bad newzzz
f-n8c5BK5T0

FMCMuscle
08-01-2013, 07:58 PM
I got some bad newzzz
f-n8c5BK5T0

Chitty video that shows he's a foot behind the line?

CyberSheriff
08-01-2013, 08:12 PM
I love when people bring this up..

Please elaborate on how the Bulls trading for a rookie, in Pippen, is even remotely close to LBJ leaving Cleveland to join up with 2 All Stars; not that I blame LBJ at all, he wasnt going anywhere with Cleveland..

LBJ will/should (barring no injuries) go down as one of, if not the, greatest player ever.. Just need to let him actually finish playing 1st..

Oh, MJ avg 36, 6 and 7 those 1st 3 years in the playoffs... just an FYI

Are you aware that Wade and Bosh averaged worse stats in Lebrons 2 finals championships than Pippen and Grant ever did in the finals with Jordan?

DasPhilosopher
08-01-2013, 08:14 PM
Roll bread and op is red

bezarker
08-01-2013, 09:11 PM
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/379771_593265717370771_899330370_n.jpg

khanvictt
08-01-2013, 09:43 PM
Playoff career averages:
LeBron James: 29.3ppg 8.4reb 7.3ast 45.9%fg 31.6%3pt
Michael Jordan: 33.4ppg 6.4reb 5.7ast 48.7%fg 33.2%3pt

NBA Finals averages for their careers:
Jordan: 33.6ppg 6.0reb 5.9ast 48.0%fg 36.8%3pt
LeBron: 19.5ppg 7.1reb 6.8ast 41.7%fg 27.1%3pt


crazy how jordan's numbers go up during the finals from the playoffs

bb185
08-01-2013, 09:57 PM
Are you aware that Wade and Bosh averaged worse stats in Lebrons 2 finals championships than Pippen and Grant ever did in the finals with Jordan?

1995-96 NBA Finals (Pippen) - 15.7 PPG ( 343%), 8.2 REB, 5.3 AST, 1.3 BLK, 2.3 STL
1996-97 NBA Finals (Pippen) - 20.0 PPG (.421%), 8.3 REB, 3.5 AST, 1.8 BLK, 1.7 STL
1997-98 NBA Finals (Pippen) - 15.7 PPG (.410%), 6.8 REB, 4.8 AST, .8 BLK, 1.7 STL

2011-12 NBA Finals (Wade) - 22.6 PPG (.435%), 6.0 REB, 5.2 AST, 1.2 BLK, 1.4 STL
2012-13 NBA Finals (Wade) - 19.6 PPG (.476%), 4.0 REB, 4.6 AST, 1.3 BLK, 1.9 STL

Str8FromNYC
08-01-2013, 10:05 PM
lol at jordan fans mad

brb "jordan a better winner"
at age 28 lebron was a better winner than jordan
i do not see this trend stopping


WE KNOW YOU MAD

sdballer5588
08-01-2013, 10:10 PM
Maybe because the Spurs were giving him wide open jump shots because they didn't respect his jumper. the strategy almost worked too.. U think anyone would try that against MJ?

6 for 6 in the finals LJ fanboy.. Never went to a game 7 against any of those teams either.

Ask 10 people who the greatest bball player ever is majority will say MJ.. LeBron will be lucky to get mentioned once.

You're claiming LeBron is forced into jumpers because he's bad at them, you are wrong.

It's because he is so otherworldly going to the rim that even though he is an efficient jumpshooter (as efficient as players like Durant or Kobe) it is a BETTER situation to have him shooting than it is to have him slashing.

LeBron is quite possibly the greatest slashing / driving player of all time. He is impossible to stop in the lane.

The fact that teams tailor make strategies to avoid that says absolutely nothing of his jumpshot. He could have steph cuirrys jumper and you would STILL rather he shoot 3s and long 2s.


You forgot that he would have been the reason they lost the game with the 2 turnovers he had back to back with less than a minute to go. Lebron was beastin before that though then he went full potato. Everyone knows they were extremely lucky to win that game. Will haunt spurs for a LONG TIME.

Lebron doesn't even really have a post game IMO. This era's post game means you catch the ball with your back to the basket then you turn and face. With Lebron he turns and faces then drives. He has had some games where he had a good back to the basket post game but majority of the time its turn and face. You can watch Sheed/younger KG/Duncan to see real post games. Only perimeter player with a great overall post game is Kobe, cause he patented his game after Jordan. Hell I think Andre Miller has a better post game then Lebron. Thing is Lebron doesn't need it to be good, but if he had it he would be even more dangerous, and considering how dangerous he already is, it would be scary.

Lebron is backing down SIGNIFICANTLY bigger defenders? This statement is laughable when Lebron is the most physical gifted freak we have seen in the NBA. You got people like Paul George, Paul Pierce, Melo etc. who he is always bigger and stronger than. If by chance coaches do put someone bigger on him, he is not posting them. He tries to take them off the dribble. You don't see him posting West. He backs the ball out to get a running head start at them and because he is much quicker he has the advantage.

Legit dying laughing at you claiming LeBrons post game isn't real based SOLELY ON ERA yet giving Kobe and Jordan post games, when calling them "post games" in the most fundamental sense is totally wrong, they both take opponents into the post and FADE AWAY on them. Or as you said doesn't count, all 3 of them FACE UP because that is what a perimeter player does.

If anything, that is referred to as a midrange game. I'm not going to gift someone a "post game" who has never fully backed someone down into the post unless they had a 3 inch advantage on them.

You say LeBrons post game doesn't count because he faces up, that makes ZERO sense. Kobe and Jordan both faced up 99% of the time, or simply faded away, which as I already stated, is hardly a post move.

As far as PERIMETER PLAYERS i nthe post go? LeBron is by far the best. He has the physical tools necessary. Kobe and Jordan had physical limitations that you simply CAN'T overcome in certain situations. I don't mean to say this made Jordan or Kobe struggle, but it certainly made them use their post game far less than would be effective for LeBron.

The percentages speak for themselves. LeBron in the post is absolute insanity.


You people are penalizing LeBron for being TOO GOOD in some areas, that he doesn't necessarily NEED to constantly go to those areas.

An often overlooked part of Jordans career is that.... newsflash, he was kinda old for his 2nd 3 peat. He spent time in the post because he had to, not becuase he wanted to. That doesn't make his post game better. It's not about time spent in the post, it's about who is more effective there.

LeBron is the most efficient of the 3 and it's not really even that close.

sdballer5588
08-01-2013, 10:16 PM
At the same age, LeBron is 2x as successful.

Stay mad. He may never surpass Jordan, but he has a chance.

CyberSheriff
08-01-2013, 10:26 PM
1995-96 NBA Finals (Pippen) - 15.7 PPG ( 343%), 8.2 REB, 5.3 AST, 1.3 BLK, 2.3 STL
1996-97 NBA Finals (Pippen) - 20.0 PPG (.421%), 8.3 REB, 3.5 AST, 1.8 BLK, 1.7 STL
1997-98 NBA Finals (Pippen) - 15.7 PPG (.410%), 6.8 REB, 4.8 AST, .8 BLK, 1.7 STL

2011-12 NBA Finals (Wade) - 22.6 PPG (.435%), 6.0 REB, 5.2 AST, 1.2 BLK, 1.4 STL
2012-13 NBA Finals (Wade) - 19.6 PPG (.476%), 4.0 REB, 4.6 AST, 1.3 BLK, 1.9 STL

Like how you

1. Didnt compare Grant and Bosh.
2. Used the 2nd 3-peat where Pippen was worse.

By saying Pippen AND Grant, I mean the first 3 peat when they were together.

ClevageGobbler
08-02-2013, 12:02 AM
You're claiming LeBron is forced into jumpers because he's bad at them, you are wrong.

It's because he is so otherworldly going to the rim that even though he is an efficient jumpshooter (as efficient as players like Durant or Kobe) it is a BETTER situation to have him shooting than it is to have him slashing.

LeBron is quite possibly the greatest slashing / driving player of all time. He is impossible to stop in the lane.



Let me just address this: LeBron is not a great jumpshooter in the playoffs. I have done the math.

In the playoffs (midrange jumpshot):

LeBron: 357/1,019 = 35%
Kobe: 909/2,126 = 42.7%

and some other greats I have studied:

DWade: 447/1,123 = 39.8%
Dirk: 603/1,332 = 45.3%

LeBron is the greatest player I have ever seen at taking it to the rim and I'd be surprised if he isn't better at it than Jordan because statistically, LeBron has hit 64.7% of his inside shots during the playoffs, career. That is beyond insane to me.

Rebounds45
08-02-2013, 12:35 AM
MfSftZvpHJg

Why are people comparing age instead of seasons?

brb took 10 seasons to win two rings. I thought he was NBA ready out of high school?

bezarker
08-02-2013, 02:12 AM
The song goes "I wanna be like Mike" not "crab walking lebrick"...

Barcelonaahl
08-02-2013, 03:35 AM
Chitty video that shows he's a foot behind the line?

In game dunk on a fast break with two dudes is much harder than dunking it in a dunk contest...but lets be borderline retarded and not address the fact that the way LeBron elevated, one step wouldn't have made a difference

DefensiveEnd896
08-02-2013, 06:15 AM
At the same age, LeBron is 2x as successful.

Stay mad. He may never surpass Jordan, but he has a chance.

MJ fans aren't mad.. I appreciate MJ for what he did for the game. If u feel LeBron is better that's fine. It doesn't bother me. I just don't agree.

If anyone is mad it is LeBron fans.. U guys r the ones who constantly make threads comparing the 72-10 Bulls and MJ to LeBron and the Heat..

Give it a rest... U r more concerned with LeBron being perceived as better than MJ than u r the Heat 3-peating next year. It's ridiculous.

Also another factor not mentioned.. Although it doesn't necessary make MJ "better" but MJ made the game of basketball look beautiful.. His jumpshot, fadeaway etc.. were all picture perfect.

I love LeBron's dunks but he isn't as fun to watch.. Prolly one of the reasons MJ would draw the highest ratings when he played.. NBA still has not had a finals rated as high as when MJ played since he retired. Not even close actually

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_Association_Nielsen_ratings

Clevelander12
08-02-2013, 06:28 AM
Overall you cant compare MJ's carreer stats and highlights when at the same age in their career's

MJ-2 NBA MVP's, 1 NBA Championship, 1 NBA Finals MVP

LBJ- 4 NBA MVP's, 2 NBA Championships, and 2 NBA Finals MVP's

Because if that was that case, LeBron is literally TWICE the player MJ was at the ripe age of 28....

You are right, it is unfair to Jordan.

He was competing with Bird and Magic for MVP's.

Chairman7w
08-02-2013, 06:55 AM
You think Lebron beats Jordan in heart and will to win?

/end thread

Repped.

CyberSheriff
08-02-2013, 12:30 PM
You are right, it is unfair to Jordan.

He was competing with Bird and Magic for MVP's.

Durant > Bird

sdballer5588
08-02-2013, 12:37 PM
MJ fans aren't mad.. I appreciate MJ for what he did for the game. If u feel LeBron is better that's fine. It doesn't bother me. I just don't agree.

If anyone is mad it is LeBron fans.. U guys r the ones who constantly make threads comparing the 72-10 Bulls and MJ to LeBron and the Heat..

Give it a rest... U r more concerned with LeBron being perceived as better than MJ than u r the Heat 3-peating next year. It's ridiculous.

Also another factor not mentioned.. Although it doesn't necessary make MJ "better" but MJ made the game of basketball look beautiful.. His jumpshot, fadeaway etc.. were all picture perfect.

I love LeBron's dunks but he isn't as fun to watch.. Prolly one of the reasons MJ would draw the highest ratings when he played.. NBA still has not had a finals rated as high as when MJ played since he retired. Not even close actually

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_Association_Nielsen_ratings

Not a single retort to my entire post was seen that day.

Lol @ calling any other fan mad as you sit here and defend a player you clearly didn't watch.


95-98 Jordan did not possess nearly the same athleticism that LeBron or even prior incarnations of Jordan had, so why the hell are you discussing his dunks.


2nd 3 peat Jordan spent so little time dunking it was ridiculous. In comparison to LeBron right now? Apples to oranges.

You brought up the bulls comparison yourself. I never said a word about any of Jordans teams or LeBrons team, because that isn't what we are talking about.



Try staying on topic for once in your life. It shouldn't be so challenging to defend the all time GOAT of the NBA, but you certainly make it look difficult having to fall back on anecdotes and the "well he's the best" card.

It's sad to see what "MJ fans" have come to on this board. None of you apparently even watched him or had the decency to go back and view some game tape to get a refresher on what he looked like in certain years.

DefensiveEnd896
08-02-2013, 12:44 PM
Not a single retort to my entire post was seen that day.

Lol @ calling any other fan mad as you sit here and defend a player you clearly didn't watch.


95-98 Jordan did not possess nearly the same athleticism that LeBron or even prior incarnations of Jordan had, so why the hell are you discussing his dunks.


2nd 3 peat Jordan spent so little time dunking it was ridiculous. In comparison to LeBron right now? Apples to oranges.

You brought up the bulls comparison yourself. I never said a word about any of Jordans teams or LeBrons team, because that isn't what we are talking about.



Try staying on topic for once in your life. It shouldn't be so challenging to defend the all time GOAT of the NBA, but you certainly make it look difficult having to fall back on anecdotes and the "well he's the best" card.

It's sad to see what "MJ fans" have come to on this board. None of you apparently even watched him or had the decency to go back and view some game tape to get a refresher on what he looked like in certain years.

Whatever u say sdballer.. I have better things to do than argue about who is better. Both great players and I'm glad I got to see them play.

Done with this thread.

bb185
08-02-2013, 01:06 PM
Durant > Bird

Lmfao. Dude, you clearly haven't watched Larry The Legend play. Your ignorant statement goes to show how underrated Bird is to the average fan. Larry Bird is one of the most accomplished players the game has ever seen. The fact that you are actually serious about this statement, especially at this point in Durants career, has put me on notice to disregard any statement you make about basketball.

By the way, Kevin Durant was asked which NBA legend would he have wanted to play with...

“Larry Bird because I just respect him so much, how humble he is, how he was just all about playing the game of basketball above nothing else. Just how hard he played and how skilled he was.”

Krunk Fu
08-02-2013, 01:13 PM
For one, players wanted to join Jordan, not the other way around.

Secondly, Jordan smashed a lot more bishes.

CyberSheriff
08-02-2013, 01:14 PM
Lmfao. Dude, you clearly haven't watched Larry The Legend play. Your ignorant statement goes to show how underrated Bird is to the average fan. Larry Bird is one of the most accomplished players the game has ever seen. The fact that you are actually serious about this statement, especially at this point in Durants career, has put me on notice to disregard any statement you make about basketball.

By the way, Kevin Durant was asked which NBA legend would he have wanted to play with...

“Larry Bird because I just respect him so much, how humble he is, how he was just all about playing the game of basketball above nothing else. Just how hard he played and how skilled he was.”

Bird was a better passer and slightly better rebounder, but Durant is a better scorer and defender.

If you compare them to the same time in both of their careers, Durant is the far better player.

TheYellowMamba
08-02-2013, 01:24 PM
Jordan's a better leader, shooter, passer.

Baylorballs
08-02-2013, 01:30 PM
Love how the OP's name is Lebrown Wade 4 mvp.... course he's biased


Le Brown has a solid decade left to continue to be a dominate force, and then i think he's got the right to claim to be as good as Jordan. he's just still too young.

but Jordan has to be getting a lillllllll bit nervous....

bezarker
08-02-2013, 01:41 PM
I'll tell you what Lebrick has over Jordan...



his taste in women:

















































http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/nba/photogallery/lebron_ring.jpg

andrenzz
08-02-2013, 02:17 PM
Not a single retort to my entire post was seen that day.

Lol @ calling any other fan mad as you sit here and defend a player you clearly didn't watch.


95-98 Jordan did not possess nearly the same athleticism that LeBron or even prior incarnations of Jordan had, so why the hell are you discussing his dunks.


2nd 3 peat Jordan spent so little time dunking it was ridiculous. In comparison to LeBron right now? Apples to oranges.

You brought up the bulls comparison yourself. I never said a word about any of Jordans teams or LeBrons team, because that isn't what we are talking about.



Try staying on topic for once in your life. It shouldn't be so challenging to defend the all time GOAT of the NBA, but you certainly make it look difficult having to fall back on anecdotes and the "well he's the best" card.

It's sad to see what "MJ fans" have come to on this board. None of you apparently even watched him or had the decency to go back and view some game tape to get a refresher on what he looked like in certain years.

Why does anyone think Lebron is more athletic than Jordan was? Because he is bigger?

bb185
08-02-2013, 02:18 PM
Durant is a better scorer and defender.

If you compare them to the same time in both of their careers, Durant is the far better player.

No. Bird was a better passer, rebounder, and defender. Durant still has work ahead to reach Birds tenacious defense. The only thing I will give Durant is scoring.

Again, you continue to show your ignorance. It is evident you have no idea what you are talking about. You do realize Bird only played 13 years, and in the latter half was plagued by an injured back. His dominance came in the beginning of his career. Bird was BY FAR the better/more accomplished player through the first six years of each players career...for comparison (first 6 years only)

Bird: 2x NBA Champion, NBA Finals MVP, 2x NBA Most Valuable Player, 6x All NBA First Team, 3x All NBA Defensive 2nd team, NBA Rookie of the Year.

Durant: 4x All NBA First Team, 3x NBA Scoring Champion, NBA Rookie of the Year.

Oh and in his 7th season, which Durant will be entering, Bird was the NBA Most Valuable Player, NBA Champion, and Finals MVP.

Now what ignorant comment are you going to counter with?

HelloDurr
08-02-2013, 02:21 PM
Lebron is overrated as a defender. Ask kd and pgeorge...

Do you even ball op?

CyberSheriff
08-02-2013, 02:43 PM
No. Bird was a better passer, rebounder, and defender. Durant still has work ahead to reach Birds tenacious defense. The only thing I will give Durant is scoring.

Again, you continue to show your ignorance. It is evident you have no idea what you are talking about. You do realize Bird only played 13 years, and in the latter half was plagued by an injured back. His dominance came in the beginning of his career. Bird was BY FAR the better/more accomplished player through the first six years of each players career...for comparison (first 6 years only)

Bird: 2x NBA Champion, NBA Finals MVP, 2x NBA Most Valuable Player, 6x All NBA First Team, 3x All NBA Defensive 2nd team, NBA Rookie of the Year.

Durant: 4x All NBA First Team, 3x NBA Scoring Champion, NBA Rookie of the Year.

Oh and in his 7th season, which Durant will be entering, Bird was the NBA Most Valuable Player, NBA Champion, and Finals MVP.

Now what ignorant comment are you going to counter with?

I like the part where you left out that Durant was hurt during his real rookie season, not to mention Durant is playing during Lebrons prime while Bird did not play during Jordans which discredits the MVP comparison. Durant would have a championship if he didn't have to play against the GOAT in his first final appearance.

Had bird come into the NBA in the late 80s, he wouldn't have won any MVPs or Championships(maybe vs Olajuwon idk)

statistically Durant is a better player than Bird at this point.

bb185
08-02-2013, 04:08 PM
I like the part where you left out that Durant was hurt during his real rookie season, not to mention Durant is playing during Lebrons prime while Bird did not play during Jordans which discredits the MVP comparison. Durant would have a championship if he didn't have to play against the GOAT in his first final appearance.

Had bird come into the NBA in the late 80s, he wouldn't have won any MVPs or Championships(maybe vs Olajuwon idk)

statistically Durant is a better player than Bird at this point.

Lmao. Dude, not even trying to be mean, but your IQ must be borderline retarded.

First off, Durant played in 80/82 games his rookie season. He wasn't injured. Plus, would Durant being injured in his rookie season even be relevant to the debate? His team was garbage, he wasn't going to win anything, and Thunder had a top 5 pick in the draft the next year. He wasn't going to accumulate any accolades his rookie season.

Durant is playing during LeBrons prime..okay, cool. Too bad LBJ can only stop him in the finals. Did you forget they are in different conferences? What happened the other five years? Bird was going up against Magic Johnson (different conference, but you brought up LBJ) in his prime who is a top 3 player ever, Bad Boy Pistons, 76ers (Moses Malone/Erving), prechamp Jordan, etc. Btw, he was also competing for MVP's against these aforementioned Hall Of Famers and a ton of the 50 Greatest Players Of All Time. However, that didn't stop him from racking up the MVP's.

Bird took down Moses Malone (Houston days), Magic Johnson, and The Dream (he did win a chamionship against Olajuwon you fool) to win his 3 chamionships. Going up against the greats in the Finals didn't stop Bird. Don't even use Durant went up against the GOAT (MJ is) as an argument. LBJ showed this past year, he is vulnerable in the Finals. Using your logic, I can argue that Bird had to go up against Magic three times in the finals.

Lastly, throughout their first 6 years..Larry Bird has better statistics.

Rounding up for both players:

Bird: 24 PPG (50%), 11 REB, 6 AST, 2 STL, 1 BLK.

Durant: 27 PPG (48%), 7 REB, 3 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK.

You continue to make baseless statements, one after another.

NOW WHAT IGNORANT COMMENT ARE YOU GOING TO COUNTER WITH?

bottle_cap
08-02-2013, 04:11 PM
Lebron is overrated as a defender. Ask kd and pgeorge...

Do you even ball op?

and tony parker
and d rose
and carmelo
and kobe
and paul pierce

lebron can and does shut down anybody on defense currently in the NBA besides big men obviously

CyberSheriff
08-02-2013, 04:23 PM
Lmao. Dude, not even trying to be mean, but your IQ must be borderline retarded.

First off, Durant played in 80/82 games his rookie season. He wasn't injured. Plus, would Durant being injured in his rookie season even be relevant to the debate? His team was garbage, he wasn't going to win anything, and Thunder had a top 5 pick in the draft the next year. He wasn't going to accumulate any accolades his rookie season.

Durant is playing during LeBrons prime..okay, cool. Too bad LBJ can only stop him in the finals. Did you forget they are in different conferences? What happened the other five years? Bird was going up against Magic Johnson (different conference, but you brought up LBJ) in his prime who is a top 3 player ever, Bad Boy Pistons, 76ers (Moses Malone/Erving), prechamp Jordan, etc. Btw, he was also competing for MVP's against these aforementioned Hall Of Famers and a ton of the 50 Greatest Players Of All Time. However, that didn't stop him from racking up the MVP's.

Bird took down Moses Malone (Houston days), Magic Johnson, and The Dream (he did win a chamionship against Olajuwon you fool) to win his 3 chamionships. Going up against the greats in the Finals didn't stop Bird. Don't even use Durant went up against the GOAT (MJ is) as an argument. LBJ showed this past year, he is vulnerable in the Finals. Using your logic, I can argue that Bird had to go up against Magic three times in the finals.

Lastly, throughout their first 6 years..Larry Bird has better statistics.

Rounding up for both players:

Bird: 24 PPG (50%), 11 REB, 6 AST, 2 STL, 1 BLK.

Durant: 27 PPG (48%), 7 REB, 3 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK.

You continue to make baseless statements, one after another.

NOW WHAT IGNORANT COMMENT ARE YOU GOING TO COUNTER WITH?

Tl;Dr

Your averages on the stats are off.

I OuTsiDeR I
08-02-2013, 04:41 PM
Legit dying laughing at you claiming LeBrons post game isn't real based SOLELY ON ERA yet giving Kobe and Jordan post games, when calling them "post games" in the most fundamental sense is totally wrong, they both take opponents into the post and FADE AWAY on them. Or as you said doesn't count, all 3 of them FACE UP because that is what a perimeter player does.

If anything, that is referred to as a midrange game. I'm not going to gift someone a "post game" who has never fully backed someone down into the post unless they had a 3 inch advantage on them.

You say LeBrons post game doesn't count because he faces up, that makes ZERO sense. Kobe and Jordan both faced up 99% of the time, or simply faded away, which as I already stated, is hardly a post move.

As far as PERIMETER PLAYERS i nthe post go? LeBron is by far the best. He has the physical tools necessary. Kobe and Jordan had physical limitations that you simply CAN'T overcome in certain situations. I don't mean to say this made Jordan or Kobe struggle, but it certainly made them use their post game far less than would be effective for LeBron.

The percentages speak for themselves. LeBron in the post is absolute insanity.


You people are penalizing LeBron for being TOO GOOD in some areas, that he doesn't necessarily NEED to constantly go to those areas.

An often overlooked part of Jordans career is that.... newsflash, he was kinda old for his 2nd 3 peat. He spent time in the post because he had to, not becuase he wanted to. That doesn't make his post game better. It's not about time spent in the post, it's about who is more effective there.

LeBron is the most efficient of the 3 and it's not really even that close.I never said it wasn't real (or at least its not what I meant). I'm saying majority of players who post now, whether perimeter or interior player, 90% of the time catch turn and face. Hardly anyone has a real back to the basket post game, including Lebron. Now catching and facing is part of a post attack so its not like it doesn't count if you do it, Dream did it a lot too. But it's practically the only thing people do in this era. Even PF's/C's. My post about posting wasn't specifically about Lebron but more so how the back to the basket game is dying in the NBA.

Jordan/Kobe did more than just fade away if you actually look and appreciate their post games. The footwork, as well as the counter moves they have in the post, to get the defender off balance, as well as just hitting some tuff fade aways. I enjoyed that as much as seeing Tim Duncan go to work on KG or The Dream go to work on Robinson.

If I asked who had a better post game Shaq or The Dream who would you pick? Anyone who says Shaq is insane. Now I'm not talking about being dominant or anything like that. Who had a better overall post game. It's hands down the Dream. Shaq had probably 2 moves, he was good in the post because of his physical abilities. This is how I see Lebron the same as Shaq. Because he is so physically dominant over his defender he only needs to face and bulldoze to the basket. He really only needs that one move to be dominant.

As I stated already Lebron may not even need it at this point because all he needs is the face up game and he has done quite well for himself. All I'm saying is if he got a legit overall post game, how scary would he be, when he already is scary with mostly a face up game. How much more unstoppable would Shaq have been if he developed his game a little more instead of relying strictly on being bigger/stronger/faster than every C.

With that said you don't think Lebron could have benefitted from posting up Leonard/Green etc with his size and strength advantage on both of them, instead of losing his confidence on a jumpshot. He NEEDS to spend more time there because he ALWAYS has the advantage in size and strength. IMO it has to be back to the basket because tell me any SG/SF that can bang with him in the post consistently?

I am not slighting LBJ, he is a beast, good at what he does, is the best player in the NBA today. Even though he is this good he can still get better. IMO all thats left is back to basket postgame, FT shooting, continue to work on his Jumper (thought he was over the hump but after the finals I have doubts again).

bb185
08-02-2013, 04:42 PM
Tl;Dr

Your averages on the stats are off.

LMFAO. The statistics I provided are 100% accurate. I take it that you have admitted defeat. Thank you for playing.

Me: 1
You: -5

HayZues Christi
08-02-2013, 04:44 PM
Tl;Dr

Your averages on the stats are off.

Durant is a beast.

you are a fuking tard to be comparing him to larry bird.

he has to accomplish something besides scoring titles.

StarfaceChris
08-02-2013, 04:46 PM
he was a 100x times better at the most important thing in basketball.. scoring

sdballer5588
08-02-2013, 10:13 PM
I never said it wasn't real (or at least its not what I meant). I'm saying majority of players who post now, whether perimeter or interior player, 90% of the time catch turn and face. Hardly anyone has a real back to the basket post game, including Lebron. Now catching and facing is part of a post attack so its not like it doesn't count if you do it, Dream did it a lot too. But it's practically the only thing people do in this era. Even PF's/C's. My post about posting wasn't specifically about Lebron but more so how the back to the basket game is dying in the NBA.

Jordan/Kobe did more than just fade away if you actually look and appreciate their post games. The footwork, as well as the counter moves they have in the post, to get the defender off balance, as well as just hitting some tuff fade aways. I enjoyed that as much as seeing Tim Duncan go to work on KG or The Dream go to work on Robinson.

If I asked who had a better post game Shaq or The Dream who would you pick? Anyone who says Shaq is insane. Now I'm not talking about being dominant or anything like that. Who had a better overall post game. It's hands down the Dream. Shaq had probably 2 moves, he was good in the post because of his physical abilities. This is how I see Lebron the same as Shaq. Because he is so physically dominant over his defender he only needs to face and bulldoze to the basket. He really only needs that one move to be dominant.

As I stated already Lebron may not even need it at this point because all he needs is the face up game and he has done quite well for himself. All I'm saying is if he got a legit overall post game, how scary would he be, when he already is scary with mostly a face up game. How much more unstoppable would Shaq have been if he developed his game a little more instead of relying strictly on being bigger/stronger/faster than every C.

With that said you don't think Lebron could have benefitted from posting up Leonard/Green etc with his size and strength advantage on both of them, instead of losing his confidence on a jumpshot. He NEEDS to spend more time there because he ALWAYS has the advantage in size and strength. IMO it has to be back to the basket because tell me any SG/SF that can bang with him in the post consistently?

I am not slighting LBJ, he is a beast, good at what he does, is the best player in the NBA today. Even though he is this good he can still get better. IMO all thats left is back to basket postgame, FT shooting, continue to work on his Jumper (thought he was over the hump but after the finals I have doubts again).


You apparently didn't read my post, because Shaq WAS better in the post than Hakeem.

Did he have more moves? Was his arsenal as great? Of course not.

Was he more feared? Was he more successful? Was he a better scorer who was far more efficient in the post? YES.


Shaq was FAR FAR FAR more effective in the post. Dream being more "skilled" as you would call it, means jack sht. The end result is what matters. Shaqs conversion rate in the paint was INSANITY.

Here is shaq vs hakeem when they played one another head to head, tell me what you notice about their FG% on one another. Shaq is not viewed as a daunting defender, Hakeem was.

Total:
Hakeem: 253 touches, 140 doubles (55.3%)
Shaq: 221 touches, 146 doubles (66.1%)

Here are their stats when they were guarded by each other:
Shaq 32-57 (56.1 FG%), 6-8 FT, 67.3 double teamed%, .578 TS%, 17 assists, 1 O-reb allowed to Hakeem
Hakeem: 31-75 (41.3 FG%), 9-13 FT, 60.2 double teamed%, .446 TS%, 8 assists, 3 O-reb allowed to Shaq

Shaq blocked 2 Hakeem shots, Hakeem blocked 0 Shaq shots.

The vast majority of Shaq's shots were close range hooks.

Dunks:
Hakeem: 1 dunk (vs grant)
Shaq: 9 dunks (2 of them were in Hakeem's face)

Fouls drawn on offense:
Shaq: 37 (17 on Hakeem)
Hakeem: 21 (9 on Shaq)

Hakeem did draw 4 Shaq charges.

Shaq was called for 5 travels, Hakeem 2.


So Shaq was a daunting FIFTEEN PERCENT better from the floor with Hakeem on him than Hakeem was with Shaq on him, and they guarded one another a VAST majority of the team, drawing over 140 double teams each in that series. Yet shaq was VASTLY more effective and Hakeem was forced far more into jumpers because he was simply not as strong as Shaq was in the post.

So if we compare who was more EFFECTIVE in the post? Prime shaq was the crowned GOD of the paint. Saying otherwise is ludicrous.

Take your bullsht "arsenal" over to that pathetic Melo thread and wax poetic about how much it matters that you have so many "moves"

LeBron spent less time in the post vs Leonard because they were effectively sagging off of 2 other players on the court turning every post up for LeBron into a triple team, did you even watch the series? The Spurs chose "beat us with shooters" and the Heat shooters went cold. Why is that LeBrons fault?

I OuTsiDeR I
08-02-2013, 11:42 PM
You apparently didn't read my post, because Shaq WAS better in the post than Hakeem.

Did he have more moves? Was his arsenal as great? Of course not.

Was he more feared? Was he more successful? Was he a better scorer who was far more efficient in the post? YES.


Shaq was FAR FAR FAR more effective in the post. Dream being more "skilled" as you would call it, means jack sht. The end result is what matters. Shaqs conversion rate in the paint was INSANITY.

Here is shaq vs hakeem when they played one another head to head, tell me what you notice about their FG% on one another. Shaq is not viewed as a daunting defender, Hakeem was.

Total:
Hakeem: 253 touches, 140 doubles (55.3%)
Shaq: 221 touches, 146 doubles (66.1%)

Here are their stats when they were guarded by each other:
Shaq 32-57 (56.1 FG%), 6-8 FT, 67.3 double teamed%, .578 TS%, 17 assists, 1 O-reb allowed to Hakeem
Hakeem: 31-75 (41.3 FG%), 9-13 FT, 60.2 double teamed%, .446 TS%, 8 assists, 3 O-reb allowed to Shaq

Shaq blocked 2 Hakeem shots, Hakeem blocked 0 Shaq shots.

The vast majority of Shaq's shots were close range hooks.

Dunks:
Hakeem: 1 dunk (vs grant)
Shaq: 9 dunks (2 of them were in Hakeem's face)

Fouls drawn on offense:
Shaq: 37 (17 on Hakeem)
Hakeem: 21 (9 on Shaq)

Hakeem did draw 4 Shaq charges.

Shaq was called for 5 travels, Hakeem 2.


So Shaq was a daunting FIFTEEN PERCENT better from the floor with Hakeem on him than Hakeem was with Shaq on him, and they guarded one another a VAST majority of the team, drawing over 140 double teams each in that series. Yet shaq was VASTLY more effective and Hakeem was forced far more into jumpers because he was simply not as strong as Shaq was in the post.

So if we compare who was more EFFECTIVE in the post? Prime shaq was the crowned GOD of the paint. Saying otherwise is ludicrous.

Take your bullsht "arsenal" over to that pathetic Melo thread and wax poetic about how much it matters that you have so many "moves"

LeBron spent less time in the post vs Leonard because they were effectively sagging off of 2 other players on the court turning every post up for LeBron into a triple team, did you even watch the series? The Spurs chose "beat us with shooters" and the Heat shooters went cold. Why is that LeBrons fault?What's funny is you didn't even read my post too. I actually was going to address this and I somewhat did when I said, for Lebron it may not even matter because he is so effective with facing up and bulldozing his way for layups. You got so caught up on Shaq vs Hakeem that your entire post is on that alone. The difference between Effectiveness in this example and the Melo thread is that both of them were effective in the post, with Melo he has a better arsenal but he isn't effective. Prime Shaq is the most dominant player I've seen and he didn't even max out his abilities. This wasn't meant to be who is the better C.

Our difference in opinion is you are all about being effective (its not a bad thing obviously). You don't care if he only has one move or hardly any skills, if he is good at one thing and no one can stop it then he is the best. For me it's both having the skill (i.e overall game) as well as being efficient. Which is why I would put Dreams post game > Shaq's. This in no way means Dream > Shaq overall.

This is why I don't marvel at Shaq or Lebrons game. If you are bigger/stronger/faster than everyone and get easy buckets because you are just physically above and beyond everyone else you play against I'm not going to drool over that. They are good at what they do and they play to their strengths, I can't blame them for that.

What series were you watching? Lebron got more help in this series from the perimeter than the other series. Someone stepped up at different times. Here is what Miami's main Perimeter shooters shot from the 3 for the SERIES. Ray Allen 54%, Chalmers 40%, Miller 61%, Battier 44% (saved mostly from an unbelievable gm 7). Lebron got his assists and hockey assists when he was getting doubled from the post. They were FAR from going COLD. The strategy yes was too crowd LBJ in the Post just like you would do Shaq. Which is fine, if he kept drawing defenders and kicking it out, now did they make every single one? No. Did Lebron miss some in the post when he had chances? Yes. That strategy was much better than Lebron losing his confidence with his jumper, defenders daring him to shoot it, playing him like early Rondo, sagging off 5 ft from him and Wade.

sdballer5588
08-02-2013, 11:47 PM
What's funny is you didn't even read my post too. I actually was going to address this and I somewhat did when I said, for Lebron it may not even matter because he is so effective with facing up and bulldozing his way for layups. You got so caught up on Shaq vs Hakeem that your entire post is on that alone. The difference between Effectiveness in this example and the Melo thread is that both of them were effective in the post, with Melo he has a better arsenal but he isn't effective. Prime Shaq is the most dominant player I've seen and he didn't even max out his abilities. This wasn't meant to be who is the better C.

Our difference in opinion is you are all about being effective (its not a bad thing obviously). You don't care if he only has one move or hardly any skills, if he is good at one thing and no one can stop it then he is the best. For me it's both having the skill (i.e overall game) as well as being efficient. Which is why I would put Dreams post game > Shaq's. This in no way means Dream > Shaq overall.

This is why I don't marvel at Shaq or Lebrons game. If you are bigger/stronger/faster than everyone and get easy buckets because you are just physically above and beyond everyone else you play against I'm not going to drool over that. They are good at what they do and they play to their strengths, I can't blame them for that.

What series were you watching? Lebron got more help in this series from the perimeter than the other series. Someone stepped up at different times. Here is what Miami's main Perimeter shooters shot from the 3 for the SERIES. Ray Allen 54%, Chalmers 40%, Miller 61%, Battier 44% (saved mostly from an unbelievable gm 7). Lebron got his assists and hockey assists when he was getting doubled from the post. They were FAR from going COLD. The strategy yes was too crowd LBJ in the Post just like you would do Shaq. Which is fine, if he kept drawing defenders and kicking it out, now did they make every single one? No. Did Lebron miss some in the post when he had chances? Yes. That strategy was much better than Lebron losing his confidence with his jumper, defenders daring him to shoot it, playing him like early Rondo, sagging off 5 ft from him and Wade.

I busted a nut on the Shaq Hakeem stuff because to me it is just laughable to give one INFERIOR player a pass based on his ability to "do it all". Cuz all those moves to do it all only do ONE THING. score. And shaq did it better. So shaqs master key was steady mobbin the locks while Hakeem had to find the right key, and then hope it worked.

Shaq > Hakeem even though I understand your point, I just personally disagree with it.

LeBron was forced intosome bad shots. Those stats give no context in series where 3 games were decided by double digits and mike miller shot 100% in a game they lost by 20.

I OuTsiDeR I
08-03-2013, 01:00 AM
I busted a nut on the Shaq Hakeem stuff because to me it is just laughable to give one INFERIOR player a pass based on his ability to "do it all". Cuz all those moves to do it all only do ONE THING. score. And shaq did it better. So shaqs master key was steady mobbin the locks while Hakeem had to find the right key, and then hope it worked.

Shaq > Hakeem even though I understand your point, I just personally disagree with it.

LeBron was forced intosome bad shots. Those stats give no context in series where 3 games were decided by double digits and mike miller shot 100% in a game they lost by 20.I understand where you are coming from which is why I ain't even getting mad at it. If it works it works you don't need to change anything. I get it. Just for me personally it's kinda uninteresting if that makes sense. There is no real art or craft to Shaq's game. It is straight up brute strength/size/speed. Basically it was unfair lol. But clearly dominant and unstoppable.

If you ever played Madden, it's like someone who runs only 1 play and you can't stop it. He runs it over and over all game and it always works, you can't stop it. Then you play another guy who runs multiple plays and has schemes from different sets, and you can't figure him out and is equally unstoppable. I personally prefer the second player over the first. Thats how it is for me when we say Shaq vs Dream in the post, Although I don't have a problem with someone thinking Shaq>Hakeem.

As for Lebron, yes they had some games they didn't shoot too well overall and some games they did. My point was it wasn't as bad as you were making it out to be. Yes they lose by 20 but that wasn't because he was getting doubled and they were bricking, it was more so, they played bad defense and Spurs were hot. I still think Lebron should get a better back to the basket game and he would benefit GREATLY from it. He is just too physically dominant not to and has mismatches there ALL THE TIME. He is the perimeter Shaq IMO. Plus with his vision, I would think it only makes sense and would take his game to the next level, and like I said thats scary.

sdballer5588
08-03-2013, 07:51 AM
I understand where you are coming from which is why I ain't even getting mad at it. If it works it works you don't need to change anything. I get it. Just for me personally it's kinda uninteresting if that makes sense. There is no real art or craft to Shaq's game. It is straight up brute strength/size/speed. Basically it was unfair lol. But clearly dominant and unstoppable.

If you ever played Madden, it's like someone who runs only 1 play and you can't stop it. He runs it over and over all game and it always works, you can't stop it. Then you play another guy who runs multiple plays and has schemes from different sets, and you can't figure him out and is equally unstoppable. I personally prefer the second player over the first. Thats how it is for me when we say Shaq vs Dream in the post, Although I don't have a problem with someone thinking Shaq>Hakeem.

As for Lebron, yes they had some games they didn't shoot too well overall and some games they did. My point was it wasn't as bad as you were making it out to be. Yes they lose by 20 but that wasn't because he was getting doubled and they were bricking, it was more so, they played bad defense and Spurs were hot. I still think Lebron should get a better back to the basket game and he would benefit GREATLY from it. He is just too physically dominant not to and has mismatches there ALL THE TIME. He is the perimeter Shaq IMO. Plus with his vision, I would think it only makes sense and would take his game to the next level, and like I said thats scary.

I agree with exactly what your saying, I just feel it's sucha hipster pick in the Hakeem vs Shaq argument. Or a basketball purist argument.

Although LeBrons best comparison ABSOLUTELY is Shaq. He just can't be stopped. I understand what people say about his game being "uninteresting" but I personally love watching that kind of insane athleticism and brute force that just can't be taught.

When LeBron happened to burn the spurs in g7 with all jumpers? That was just gravy. I'm genuinely excited to see his progression. That's the scary part, LeBron has gotten better every single year.

He should continue to improve his post game, of course, but to say that guys like kobe and jordans are hands down better or that they don't compar? That is just silly, because you're basically gifting them a lifetimes achievement.


That said, I mostly agree with what you're saying.

sdballer5588
08-03-2013, 07:54 AM
One more thing, I feel when people compare lebron to shaq they are doing it in a somewhat negative light, I'm not sure I've said it on here before, but the only reason that Shaq isn't the hands down GOAT or ever really discussed as one has nothing to do with his play at all.

It's about the fact that shaq doesn't have a real fan base. He burned every bridge he had and left those teams and became the first perennial all star "journeyman", by playing for so many teams that it was almost a real question as to who would retire his jersey.

I would take prime shaq over any player in history, MJ included, because Shaq was straight up more dominant. If he had stayed in LA his entire career, there would be entire legions talking about him being the 3rd or 4th or if he had a work ethic, the undisputed GOAT.

So I don't like the negative connotation that comes with a shaq comparison.

Daewoo_Lanos
08-03-2013, 07:59 AM
One more thing, I feel when people compare lebron to shaq they are doing it in a somewhat negative light, I'm not sure I've said it on here before, but the only reason that Shaq isn't the hands down GOAT or ever really discussed as one has nothing to do with his play at all.

It's about the fact that shaq doesn't have a real fan base. He burned every bridge he had and left those teams and became the first perennial all star "journeyman", by playing for so many teams that it was almost a real question as to who would retire his jersey.

I would take prime shaq over any player in history, MJ included, because Shaq was straight up more dominant. If he had stayed in LA his entire career, there would be entire legions talking about him being the 3rd or 4th or if he had a work ethic, the undisputed GOAT.

So I don't like the negative connotation that comes with a shaq comparison.

i honestly believe that if shaq beat hakeem in that finals series, he'd be considered the greatest center of all time. the fact that he lost combined with what you wrote above just has people sleeping on him.

the dominance of his first 12 years was just fkn silly

jkeithc82
08-03-2013, 08:41 AM
It's weird, I read some posts where sdballer praises Hakeem to no end, and then some where he tries hard to discredit him. Not sure what to think.

jamnajh
08-03-2013, 09:02 AM
Better shooter

False

sdballer5588
08-03-2013, 09:20 AM
It's weird, I read some posts where sdballer praises Hakeem to no end, and then some where he tries hard to discredit him. Not sure what to think.

Hakeem was the 3rd best center of all time. 2nd best if you grade based on the "career curve".

I removed Russell/Wilt for era reasons.

In terms of peak it is Shaq Kareem Hakeem

Career curve grading? Kareem Hakeem Shaq

Most polished all around center? Hakeem/Kareem(interchangable, slight edge to hakeem for D) Shaq

Most dominant/Best in their prime? Shaq Kareem Hakeem



Shaq receives such little love on this forum it is absurd, and it's because he has no real fanbase. You yourself are a rockets homer, thus you defend Hakeem to no end, even in situations where it makes little sense (as in putting Hakeem above shaq, based on apparently liking him more, because based on career accolades Shaq is superior)

So I'm just making up for the fanbase shaq deserves.

Rebounds45
08-03-2013, 09:40 AM
Hakeem was the 3rd best center of all time. 2nd best if you grade based on the "career curve".

I removed Russell/Wilt for era reasons.

In terms of peak it is Shaq Kareem Hakeem

Career curve grading? Kareem Hakeem Shaq

Most polished all around center? Hakeem/Kareem(interchangable, slight edge to hakeem for D) Shaq

Most dominant/Best in their prime? Shaq Kareem Hakeem



Shaq receives such little love on this forum it is absurd, and it's because he has no real fanbase. You yourself are a rockets homer, thus you defend Hakeem to no end, even in situations where it makes little sense (as in putting Hakeem above shaq, based on apparently liking him more, because based on career accolades Shaq is superior)

So I'm just making up for the fanbase shaq deserves.

If Shaq had that MJ/LeBron kind of work ethic then he could've been the god-tier GOAT center. I'm still picking the Dream because I just like him more, but Shaq's dominance in LA was something else. Hakeem is superior defensive wise though.

sdballer5588
08-03-2013, 09:47 AM
If Shaq had that MJ/LeBron kind of work ethic then he could've been the god-tier GOAT center. I'm still picking the Dream because I just like him more, but Shaq's dominance in LA was something else. Hakeem is superior defensive wise though.

Bolded = the only reason anyone would ever take Hakeem over Shaq.

AlaskanMuscle
08-03-2013, 10:57 AM
Only read the first page but....

Attacking the rim-
Jordan=LeBron

Mid Range shooting-
Jordan>LeBron

3 point shooting-
Jordan<LeBron

Passing/Court Vision-
Jordan<LeBron

Rebounding-
Jordan<LeBron

Man defense-
Jordan=LeBron

Help Defense-
Jordan<LeBron

Free throw shooting-
Jordan>LeBron

Killer instinct-
Jordan>LeBron

Killer instinct is entertaining and all. But LeBron might be better overall skill set, size, and natural talent. The man was born to play basketball. As much as you hate him you can't deny that he's probably the most complete perimeter player ever. There's not one thing he's bad at. Not sure when a better player will come along so enjoy being able to watch him in his prime.

Jordan is GOAT right now because of his accomplishments. LeBron is a more complete tho, and might end up being the GOAT.

jkeithc82
08-03-2013, 11:20 AM
Hakeem was the 3rd best center of all time. 2nd best if you grade based on the "career curve".

I removed Russell/Wilt for era reasons.

In terms of peak it is Shaq Kareem Hakeem

Career curve grading? Kareem Hakeem Shaq

Most polished all around center? Hakeem/Kareem(interchangable, slight edge to hakeem for D) Shaq

Most dominant/Best in their prime? Shaq Kareem Hakeem



Shaq receives such little love on this forum it is absurd, and it's because he has no real fanbase. You yourself are a rockets homer, thus you defend Hakeem to no end, even in situations where it makes little sense (as in putting Hakeem above shaq, based on apparently liking him more, because based on career accolades Shaq is superior)

So I'm just making up for the fanbase shaq deserves.

It's not really which center I "like more," rather its which center of the two would I choose on my team if given the option. I'll go with Hakeem. I've never denied Shaq's greatness, all things considered I'd just take Hakeem over him.

sdballer5588
08-03-2013, 12:02 PM
It's not really which center I "like more," rather its which center of the two would I choose on my team if given the option. I'll go with Hakeem. I've never denied Shaq's greatness, all things considered I'd just take Hakeem over him.

You are from Houston and are a Houston fan.

You are using the "consistent career" arc choice.


What if Jordan never retired and Hakeem was ringless? I enjoy arguing with you because it's an adrenaline rush. (I obviously don't get out much)


WILL I GET NEGGED? I DON'T KNOW BUT GOD DAMMIT I WILL "INSULT" HAKEEM TIL THE END.

jkeithc82
08-03-2013, 12:09 PM
You are from Houston and are a Houston fan.

You are using the "consistent career" arc choice.


What if Jordan never retired and Hakeem was ringless? I enjoy arguing with you because it's an adrenaline rush. (I obviously don't get out much)


WILL I GET NEGGED? I DON'T KNOW BUT GOD DAMMIT I WILL "INSULT" HAKEEM TIL THE END.

LOL why would I neg you, you have an opinion that's well researched and backed by analysis.

Truth be told (I'll probably receive negs for this myself) I actually enjoy reading most of your posts.

sdballer5588
08-03-2013, 12:13 PM
LOL why would I neg you, you have an opinion that's well researched and backed by analysis.

Truth be told (I'll probably receive negs for this myself) I actually enjoy reading most of your posts.

As a mod you must have nightmares about being negged.

I understand why people pick Hakeem, I just think people hate on Shaq for no reason, and for some reason he has no fans. Well.... for a reason that I listed.


I'd love to see Shaqs defense from fans if he had simply stayed in LA.

bb185
08-03-2013, 12:19 PM
Shaq and Hakeem are two of the best C's the game has ever seen. However, their respective games differed.

Shaq was the most physically dominate player the NBA has ever witnessed and was able to intimidate his opponents from tip off. His assertive and forceful style of play wore down his opponents, which inevitably helped out his teammates. He was an immovable object, an unstoppable force, and his sheer mass forced teams to double team downlow. Nobody was able to guard Shaq 1v1, it simply wasn't possible. Once Shaq got position, you either were forced to give up an easy bucket, double team, or foul him. Obviously, many teams choose the latter, which is why if Shaq developed his FT stoke further..who knows what could have been. If you decided to play him with a single man, chances are the ball would go through the net, given his historic career 58% FG. If you decided to double, Shaq was a TERRIFIC passer out of the double.

Whereas Shaq dominated by brute force, Hakeem displayed an arsenal of picture perfect moves. Although he wasn't as efficient as Shaq (58% vs. 51% FG), his array of moves undoubtably made him more versatile on offense. His footwork is second to none downlow. Watching Hakeem was such a pleasure because you had no idea which move was coming next. It was clear he dedicated endless hours on his conditioning, gathering a diverse post game, and overall skill set. On the other hand, people question Shaq's work ethic. Defensively, Hakeem was an absolute monster. Shaq wasn't bad, but it is not even a debate who had the upper hand on the defensive side of the ball. No center in the history of the game was able to block shots and steal the ball like The Dream.

Unfortunately, we were never able to see the two players battle against each other in their primes. During Hakeem's prime, Shaq was young and still improving. During Shaq's prime, Hakeem was on the decline. Picking between the two is nearly impossible, because both players were so gifted at their respective style of play. Personally, I would go with Shaq because his level of dominance was unheard of. However, it's an extremely tough decision. If someone picked Hakeem, it is understandable. In the end, it comes down to how you value the C position and the attributes you seek from the 5 position.

sdballer5588
08-03-2013, 12:21 PM
Shaq and Hakeem are two of the best C's the game has ever seen. However, their respective games differed.

Shaq was the most physically dominate player the NBA has ever witnessed and was able to intimidate his opponents from tip off. His assertive and forceful style of play wore down his opponents, which inevitably helped out his teammates. He was an immovable object, an unstoppable force, and his sheer mass forced teams to double team downlow. Nobody was able to guard Shaq 1v1, it simply wasn't possible. Once Shaq got position, you either were forced to give up an easy bucket, double team, or foul him. Obviously, many teams choose the latter, which is why if Shaq developed his FT stoke further..who knows what could have been. If you decided to play him with a single man, chances are the ball would go through the net, given his historic career 58% FG. If you decided to double, Shaq was a TERRIFIC passer out of the double.

Whereas Shaq dominated by brute force, Hakeem displayed an arsenal of picture perfect moves. Although he wasn't as efficient as Shaq (58% vs. 51% FG), his array of moves undoubtably made him more versatile on offense. His footwork is second to none downlow. Watching Hakeem was such a pleasure because you had no idea which move was coming next. It was clear he dedicated endless hours on his conditioning, gathering a diverse post game, and overall skill set. On the other hand, people question Shaq's work ethic. Defensively, Hakeem was an absolute monster. Shaq wasn't bad, but it is not even a debate who had the upper hand on the defensive side of the ball. No center in the history of the game was able to block shots and steal the ball like The Dream.

Unfortunately, we were never able to see the two players battle against each other in their primes. During Hakeem's prime, Shaq was young and still improving. During Shaq's prime, Hakeem was on the decline. Picking between the two is nearly impossible, because both players were so gifted at their respective style of play. Personally, I would go with Shaq because his level of dominance was unheard of. However, it's an extremely tough decision. If someone picked Hakeem, it is understandable. In the end, it comes down to how you value the C position and the attributes you seek from the 5 position.

My only point is this.

Efficiency > Versatility.

I don't give a monkeys dck that you have 15 moves if I have 2 that work 100% of the time and you have 15 that work 65% of the time, I'm better.



Other than that, you basically just rewrote my entire post as if you were submitting it to an intro to english class.

bb185
08-03-2013, 12:41 PM
My only point is this.

Efficiency > Versatility.

I don't give a monkeys dck that you have 15 moves if I have 2 that work 100% of the time and you have 15 that work 65% of the time, I'm better.

Completely agree..a large factor in why I mentioned I would choose Shaq over Hakeem.


Other than that, you basically just rewrote my entire post as if you were submitting it to an intro to english class.

Not sure if insult..but was offering my perspective on the topic at hand. Thanks?

sdballer5588
08-03-2013, 01:03 PM
Completely agree..a large factor in why I mentioned I would choose Shaq over Hakeem.



Not sure if insult..but was offering my perspective on the topic at hand. Thanks?

I've repped you before since you're on spread w me, not an insult, I just always find it odd when I post something and then someone posts nearly the same analysis a few minutes later lol

Also, points off for saying "most dominate" when the phrase is "most dominant"

bb185
08-03-2013, 01:32 PM
I've repped you before since you're on spread w me, not an insult, I just always find it odd when I post something and then someone posts nearly the same analysis a few minutes later lol

Also, points off for saying "most dominate" when the phrase is "most dominant"

Yeah, whenever I stumble upon your post I usually agree with your opinion. But I just love writing and presenting my own written opinion on various sport discussions.

Didn't proofread my post..I'm willing to bet I made a few other silly mistakes. But thanks for nit-picking lol

KBaller33
08-03-2013, 02:10 PM
It's about the fact that shaq doesn't have a real fan base. He burned every bridge he had and left those teams and became the first perennial all star "journeyman", by playing for so many teams that it was almost a real question as to who would retire his jersey.

I'm worried this may happpen to LeBron. If he bolts for LA or NY next summer that means he's played for three different teams in his prime. He may lose some respect.

bb185
08-03-2013, 03:07 PM
I'm worried this may happpen to LeBron. If he bolts for LA or NY next summer that means he's played for three different teams in his prime. He may lose some respect.

Although LBJ is the one of the most hated players, he is also the most popular player. His fan base is superior compared to any active player in the NBA. When you are a player of his magnitude, a fan base will rally behind no matter where he plays. Don't forget, Cleveland Cav fans were filled with rage..now, plenty have forgiven him and would welcome him back with open arms. A recent pole came out and LBJ was voted the most popular player, surpassing Kobe, which exemplifies how fans have gotten over his decision to bolt and his infamous "decision" announcement.

To demonstrate his popularity (active players)...in 2012 LBJ outsold his nearest competitor in shoe sales by a 6 to 1 ratio. LBJ sold $300 million worth of sneakers, while Kobe sold $50 million worth in shoe apparel. Not to mention, his sales have further separated from his competition because of his success on the court since the start of 2013.

Btw, LBJ isn't leaving Miami. Or at least I hope not. No reason for him to leave the best front office, prime location, and legacy behind in MIA. If anything, LBJ will recruit members to join him in MIA, which we have seen in recent off-seasons. He has found himself a home, somewhere to build upon his empire, and most likely wants to build his legacy in one destination (like most greats). The media needs a story to write about, that is why they come up with these baseless destinations for LBJ.

TexasMajor
08-03-2013, 03:38 PM
Only read the first page but....

Attacking the rim-
Jordan=LeBron

Man defense-
Jordan=LeBron


You cant be serious.

336
08-03-2013, 03:41 PM
You are from Houston and are a Houston fan.

You are using the "consistent career" arc choice.


What if Jordan never retired and Hakeem was ringless? I enjoy arguing with you because it's an adrenaline rush. (I obviously don't get out much)


WILL I GET NEGGED? I DON'T KNOW BUT GOD DAMMIT I WILL "INSULT" HAKEEM TIL THE END.

So much this. Shaq has multiple rings because he dominated the basketball game. Hakeem has them because someone retired.

lol at Hakeem fanboys.

alphadodger
08-03-2013, 05:40 PM
So much this. Shaq has multiple rings because he dominated the basketball game. Hakeem has them because someone retired.

lol at Hakeem fanboys.


lol @ Shaq fanboys

Shaq "dominated" because the refs called the rules around his game (a la lebron). He was the face of the league and played his prime years when there were little to no great centers (aging mutombo, brad miller, old sabonis etc). Shaq couldn't make free throws, rode the bench in clutch situations, and was terrible at pick and roll defense. His biggest strength was bullrushing the lane and throwing elbows on his way to the basket. Once he got pushed out 5ft or more from the basket his FG percentage dropped drastically. Oh and he was fat, lazy and never worked on his game. Not to mention that he never won a rebounding title despite being 7 ft+. Sure he had great footwork and was one of the best passing centers ever but his lack of effort showed all the time.

Bottom line: he got schooled and the magic got swept by the Dream when they met up in the finals. Enough said.

bb185
08-03-2013, 07:48 PM
Bottom line: he got schooled and the magic got swept by the Dream when they met up in the finals. Enough said.

lol @ you basing opinion on a Finals where Hakeem was in his prime and Shaq was in his third year (not in prime)

You are going to compare who the better player is off of a single series? Hakeem was in his prime with a poised Rockets team, while Shaq (not even in his prime yet) was in his third year with an overachieving Magic squad.

In 20 regular season matchups, Shaq's team won 14 games, while Hakeem was victorious only 6 times. Shaq's numbers were also superior...

Shaq: 22.1 PPG (54.4%), 12.4 REB, 3.6 AST, 0.9 STL and 1.8 BLK.

Hakeem: 18.4 PPG (44.7%), 9.1 REB, 2.9 AST, 1.4 STL and 2.4 BLK.

In the playoffs, they played 8 times. Hakeem's team won 5 times, while Shaq was victorious 3 times (1-1 all-time in playoff series). Shaq also had far better numbers in these playoff matchups...

Shaq: 28.8 PPG (55.6%), 11.4 REB, 5.1 AST, 0.5 STL and 3.3 BLK

Hakeem: 23.0 PPG (46.5%), 9.4 REB, 3.0 AST, 1.6 STL and 1.4 BLK.

lol @ you disrespecting Shaq

Rebounds45
08-03-2013, 08:17 PM
So much this. Shaq has multiple rings because he dominated the basketball game. Hakeem has them because someone retired.

lol at Hakeem fanboys.

Hakeem has them because he defeated DRob, Patrick Ewing, and young Shaq.

AlaskanMuscle
08-03-2013, 08:19 PM
You cant be serious.

What's so hard to believe about that? LeBron is an absolute lockdown perimeter defender. You're in denial if you think he isn't. Also, im telling you its harder to stop Lebron from getting to the rim than Jordan. LeBron haters make me lol, and I'm not even a fan. I personally think Jordan is the GOAT.i

bigdogfarmhand
08-03-2013, 08:21 PM
Winning Championships

R.Cranium
08-03-2013, 08:22 PM
As a mod you must have nightmares about being negged.

I understand why people pick Hakeem, I just think people hate on Shaq for no reason, and for some reason he has no fans. Well.... for a reason that I listed.


I'd love to see Shaqs defense from fans if he had simply stayed in LA.

That's what's so funny, LA fans should fukking LOVE Shaq. They should defend him more than Kobe. He brought more titles to LA than Kobe, and was arguably the most dominant player ever during his years there.

Fukking retards.

DubSilky
08-03-2013, 08:47 PM
Can't compare. The game evolved. Get over it.

wifestealer
08-03-2013, 08:53 PM
That's what's so funny, LA fans should fukking LOVE Shaq. They should defend him more than Kobe. He brought more titles to LA than Kobe, and was arguably the most dominant player ever during his years there.

Fukking retards.

LA fans do love shaq.

it's the kobe nutriders who don't. they are no different from people who root for the heat because lebron is there. had kobe moved teams after the 07 season they would have rooted for whatever team he went to.

it's hypocrisy at its finest and only works out for them because bryant got gasol while lebron got mo.

these guys should love gasol too for saving the franchise after 3 years of mediocrity, but instead they have called him soft for his entire stay and demanded he be traded. the real laker fans appreciate what he's done whie kobe fanboys continue to undermine his contributions

AlphaDog3
08-03-2013, 09:13 PM
I saw them both play. I will breakdown their games into a few basic categories.

Athleticism and Physically Ability: Jordan was more agile and quick, but Lebron's speed and size provides him with an even greater advantage than Jordan had physically. ADVANTAGE: Lebron

Offense:
Jordan was the better scorer. He developed a more versatile game which made him unguardable the entire time he played for the Bulls. The only way to stop him was to send more guys to him. But, he could still score and pass so well from every where on the court it was nearly impossible. He developed a post up game late in his career that contributed to this versatility. Lebron is a better passer and playmaker. Probably part of their mentality as players (see mental aspect below). It's impossible to stop either of them in the open court on a break. In the half court game Jordan's scoring versatility and Lebron's overall versatility will hurt you. ADVANTAGE: EVEN

Defense
First of all, I am considering rebounding as part of defense. Both guys are among the greatest of all time. Jordan was a better perimeter defender, but he was also allowed alot more contact. Lebron can more than hold his own on the perimeter against some of the best PGs of his time period. Both guys are also excellent post defenders, but Lebron's size again gives him an advantage. Lebron is also a better rebounder and more capable of guarding any position on the court. There have been games were Lebron intentionally matched up with everyone from the PG to the center. Yeah, maybe today's centers are no the equivalent of the centers during Jordan's era; but you'd still never see Jordan intentially matched up with even with guys like Tree Rollins, Charles Oakley, or Joakim Noah. ADVANTAGE: Even

INTANGIBLES/MENTAL: JHe lived up to the big moment time and time again doing whatever it took to win. People like to say he was more clutch and I guess he was... but it wasn't always a game winning play, but he always pushed back. At times it has looked like Lebron hasn't. As an observer it is hard to say. However, last two seasons Lebron has played huge in pressure situations. He's definitely improving, but he's still got a long time to do it as many times as Jordan. Lebron's mentality early in his career seemed to be more to get every one on his team in a good mood... maybe why he is such a great passer. Advantage: Jordan

CONCLUSION: Before Jordan, Bird and Magic shared the title of the NBA's best player. After Jordan it was shared by the likes of Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe. Now, Lebron stands alone. Jordan dominated the NBA for 8 or 9 seasons. He was unquestionable the greatest player in the game. Lebron has been the best player in the NBA for atleast 3-4 seasons, maybe more. If he wants to overtake Jordan he will have to do it for nearly a decade. He has to win more rings and continue to play at a high level.

Regardless, enjoy Lebron while you can because it is very rare in the NBA to have a guy CLEARLY be the best player for a mutliple years in a row. Look at history.... it hasn't happened since Jordan left the Bulls.

montecarlo
08-03-2013, 10:07 PM
Jordan is better at killing his own father than LBJ.


I win.


actually paxon killed his father. jordan was supposed to take that series to 7 games and because they won, they took him out.

jujuB
08-03-2013, 10:10 PM
You think Lebron beats Jordan in heart and will to win?

comments like these are so fuking stupid.

I OuTsiDeR I
08-04-2013, 01:40 AM
I agree with exactly what your saying, I just feel it's sucha hipster pick in the Hakeem vs Shaq argument. Or a basketball purist argument.

Although LeBrons best comparison ABSOLUTELY is Shaq. He just can't be stopped. I understand what people say about his game being "uninteresting" but I personally love watching that kind of insane athleticism and brute force that just can't be taught.

When LeBron happened to burn the spurs in g7 with all jumpers? That was just gravy. I'm genuinely excited to see his progression. That's the scary part, LeBron has gotten better every single year.

He should continue to improve his post game, of course, but to say that guys like kobe and jordans are hands down better or that they don't compar? That is just silly, because you're basically gifting them a lifetimes achievement.

That said, I mostly agree with what you're saying. Which is why these threads in general are stupid to begin with. You are comparing a guy who is still young early in his prime, to a retired person who's entire career is done and is considered by most the GOAT. Comparisons should come at the tail end of his career not the beginning of his prime. I understand that he has a lot of promise and potential to equal or surpass Jordan. But some fans claim he has done it right now is just ridiculous.

I only brought up the post game because the OP stated what does Jordan do better than Lebron as if he doesn't do anything better. Now I get where all you care about is efficiency > Versatility, and like I stated I prefer efficiency/Versatility, and this is where we agree to disagree which is fine.

Me and my brother always said if Lebron can get a REAL consistent jumper it was going to be game over and he will eventually IMO get to GOAT status because you just can't guard him. Lebron's problem is in between his ears. The only one that can stop him is his own self. It was frustrating/depressing/irritating any other word you can think of watching his confidence going down to zero in his jumpshot in the finals. There was no way a league MVP could be completely disrespected like that, it was pretty bad. This is the part where thinking too much actually hurt him.


One more thing, I feel when people compare lebron to shaq they are doing it in a somewhat negative light, I'm not sure I've said it on here before, but the only reason that Shaq isn't the hands down GOAT or ever really discussed as one has nothing to do with his play at all.

It's about the fact that shaq doesn't have a real fan base. He burned every bridge he had and left those teams and became the first perennial all star "journeyman", by playing for so many teams that it was almost a real question as to who would retire his jersey.

I would take prime shaq over any player in history, MJ included, because Shaq was straight up more dominant. If he had stayed in LA his entire career, there would be entire legions talking about him being the 3rd or 4th or if he had a work ethic, the undisputed GOAT.

So I don't like the negative connotation that comes with a shaq comparison.I know the comparison to Shaq seems like its negative but it's not meant to be. He was the only person I could compare him too. I mean Shaq is the most dominant player ever, comparing Lebron to that can't be too negative can it lol. I just state for me, I don't get too excited about it because it's like watching somebody in High School playing against a elementary kid who is just completely outmatched physically. Their rare freak physical ability is basically unfair and a huge reason why they are dominant.

Now is it their fault that they have these physical gifts and are using it to their advantage? No. Everybody uses what they got. You always hear hard work pays off. The fact that Shaq is considered one of if not the best center even though everyone knows he was lazy as hell, is somewhat irritating. Yes I'm jealous lol. I want to be lazy and successful too but for some reason it doesn't work. LBJ has that freak physical ability with the work ethic which is why he can chase GOAT status and Shaq can't.

The shaq comparison is meant to show LBJ's dominance because of his freak physical ability. As well as not needing a versatile arsenal to dominate. Really Shaq is the only person you can really compare him too IMO.

houtexans23
08-04-2013, 06:29 AM
Which is why these threads in general are stupid to begin with. You are comparing a guy who is still young early in his prime, to a retired person who's entire career is done and is considered by most the GOAT. Comparisons should come at the tail end of his career not the beginning of his prime. I understand that he has a lot of promise and potential to equal or surpass Jordan. But some fans claim he has done it right now is just ridiculous.

I only brought up the post game because the OP stated what does Jordan do better than Lebron as if he doesn't do anything better. Now I get where all you care about is efficiency > Versatility, and like I stated I prefer efficiency/Versatility, and this is where we agree to disagree which is fine.

Me and my brother always said if Lebron can get a REAL consistent jumper it was going to be game over and he will eventually IMO get to GOAT status because you just can't guard him. Lebron's problem is in between his ears. The only one that can stop him is his own self. It was frustrating/depressing/irritating any other word you can think of watching his confidence going down to zero in his jumpshot in the finals. There was no way a league MVP could be completely disrespected like that, it was pretty bad. This is the part where thinking too much actually hurt him.

I know the comparison to Shaq seems like its negative but it's not meant to be. He was the only person I could compare him too. I mean Shaq is the most dominant player ever, comparing Lebron to that can't be too negative can it lol. I just state for me, I don't get too excited about it because it's like watching somebody in High School playing against a elementary kid who is just completely outmatched physically. Their rare freak physical ability is basically unfair and a huge reason why they are dominant.

Now is it their fault that they have these physical gifts and are using it to their advantage? No. Everybody uses what they got. You always hear hard work pays off. The fact that Shaq is considered one of if not the best center even though everyone knows he was lazy as hell, is somewhat irritating. Yes I'm jealous lol. I want to be lazy and successful too but for some reason it doesn't work. LBJ has that freak physical ability with the work ethic which is why he can chase GOAT status and Shaq can't.

The shaq comparison is meant to show LBJ's dominance because of his freak physical ability. As well as not needing a versatile arsenal to dominate. Really Shaq is the only person you can really compare him too IMO.

this entire post is full of truth. take my measly reps.

TexasMajor
08-04-2013, 09:53 AM
What's so hard to believe about that? LeBron is an absolute lockdown perimeter defender. You're in denial if you think he isn't. Also, im telling you its harder to stop Lebron from getting to the rim than Jordan. LeBron haters make me lol, and I'm not even a fan. I personally think Jordan is the GOAT.i

Too much potato.

DefensiveEnd896
08-04-2013, 09:56 AM
This game is a good example of y LeBron is not as good as MJ. Drexler actually tried the same strategy the Spurs did against LeBron. Give MJ space to shoot his jumper (especially 3s), don't let him drive on u.. The result? MJ dropped 39 pts on Drexler in the 1st half and the Bulls blew them out. Watch the game when u guys r bored n have nothing to do... Notice how MJ never hesitated to shoot his jumper like LeBron did much of the Spurs series.

oNkx-bTe8X0

I'd like to c LeBron gain more confidence in his jumper and develop a fadeaway. I think if MJ in his prime (1990-1993) went against LeBron and the Heat his offense would just be too much for them. Too bad there isn't a time machine because damn that would be fun to watch.

Big_Pete1000
08-04-2013, 09:57 AM
Not lose ships

RonnieRockstar
08-05-2013, 07:23 AM
I love when people bring this up..

Please elaborate on how the Bulls trading for a rookie, in Pippen, is even remotely close to LBJ leaving Cleveland to join up with 2 All Stars; not that I blame LBJ at all, he wasnt going anywhere with Cleveland..

LBJ will/should (barring no injuries) go down as one of, if not the, greatest player ever.. Just need to let him actually finish playing 1st..

Oh, MJ avg 36, 6 and 7 those 1st 3 years in the playoffs... just an FYI

You're right DA_MOSS, no comparisson. LBJ left the Cavs for rings, and has two so far. Pippen got drafted and got six in the end, not even close. But at least we agree that LBJ has that potential to be the GOAT somday.




Location Texas

Yankees-heat-clippers

Potatoes gonna potato

LOL, thanks for the obvious TyGuy505.

But you forgot...

Location: Texas

-Dallas Cowboys-Miami Heat-LA Clippers-NY Yankees-Texas Rangers


Born a Dallas Cowboy fan, will die a a Dallas Cowboy Fan, Heat fan since the day they traded for Shaq, Blake Griffin fan since his Oklahoma days, Yankee fan since my uncle showed me how baseball worked when I was six, Texas Ranger fan since the days of Nolan Ryan.

Can you elaborate on yours...

NYM - NYK - NYR - Packers - UCONN - Arsenal

From Conn, NY fan, GB fan, European football fan?

Clevelander12
08-05-2013, 10:22 AM
Durant > Bird

Bird was a better passer and slightly better rebounder, but Durant is a better scorer and defender.

If you compare them to the same time in both of their careers, Durant is the far better player.

Seriously?

BRB Won NBA Championship in 2nd year while averaging 21 pts, 11 rbs, 5.5 assists, and 2 steals.
BRB Won NBA Championship in 5th year while averaging 24 pts, 10 rbs, 6.5 assists, and 1.8 steals.
BRB Won NBA Championship in 7th year while averaging 26 pts, 10rbs, 6.8 assists, and 2 steals.


Durant is entering his 7th season now. 0 titles.




Tl;Dr

Your averages on the stats are off.

They are not far off sorry to say.


I like the part where you left out that Durant was hurt during his real rookie season, not to mention Durant is playing during Lebrons prime while Bird did not play during Jordans which discredits the MVP comparison. Durant would have a championship if he didn't have to play against the GOAT in his first final appearance.


statistically Durant is a better player than Bird at this point.

Yeah Bird only had to deal with:

Rockets team led by Moses Malone
76ers team with some guy named Julius Erving
Lakers team with Magic, Kareem, Worthy, McAdoo
Rockets team with Ralph Sampson and Hakeem Olajuwon

So yeah Bird had it pretty easy.




Had bird come into the NBA in the late 80s, he wouldn't have won any MVPs or Championships(maybe vs Olajuwon idk)
Ugh NBA Championship and NBA MVP in 1985-1986 at age 29.