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View Full Version : Hi there, Nutrition question and should I be bulking.

mardavich
06-17-2013, 11:01 AM
For people that just look at the highlights, I got my TDEE and Macros! so please read on.

Hi there, this is my first post on this forum but I've done my best to read all the stickies and threads so I don't come across as a complete newb but please bare with me if I do.

I'm not going to go into my entire life story but atm I'm 80 kg and around 11% BF (Range between 10.6 and 11.5 according to the scales). I'm looking to get my packs to pop out, you can only really see a 4 pack atm, I'm working on getting rid of that belly at the bottom. I thought when I got to roughly 10% it would be more defined than this but seems I was wrong.

These are the TDEES and Macros that I calculated (please feel free to check my calculation :)):

TDEE and Macros

BMR = 370 + (21.6 x LBM)
LBM = (80 * (100-11))/100
LBM = 71.2
BMR = 370 + (21.6 x 71.2)
BMR = 1907.92 = ~1908

TEE = BMR x Activity
TEE = 1908 x 1.4
TEE = 2671.2 = ~2672 Maintenance

Losing 20% = TEE - (TEE * 0.2)
Losing 20% = 2672 - (2672 * 0.2)
Losing 20% = 2137.6 = up to ~2138 Deficit 20%

Losing 10% = TEE - (TEE * 0.1)
Losing 10% = 2672 - (2672 * 0.1)
Losing 10% = 2404.8 = up to ~2405 Deficit 10%

Protein = 1.35 * Total Weight (lbs)
Protein = 1.35 * 177
Protein = 238.95 = ~240g

LBM Protein = 1.35 * Lean Weight (lbs)
LBM Protein = 1.35 * 157
LBM Protein = 211.95 = ~212g up to 240g

Fat = 0.4 * LBM (lbs)
Fat = 0.4 * 157
Fat = 62.8 = ~63g up to 78g

Carbs = ( TotalCalories - (Protein x 4) - (Fat x 9) ) / 4
Carbs = ( 2300 - (220 x 4) - (65 x 9) ) / 4
Carbs = ( 2300 - 880 - 585 ) / 4
Carbs = ( 835 ) / 4
Carbs = 208.75g = 209g

So in summary I'm aiming to drop between 10 - 20% calories. Aiming for 2138 - 2400 calories. With a rough estimate for Protein to be 212 - 240, fat 63 - 78 and carbs to be 210ish.

My question is should I be cutting to get that leaner look and am I doing everything correctly? Ramadan (a muslim month where you have to fast from sunrise to sunset, no drinks or food allowed) is coming up around July 9th and I'm looking to continue cutting then. When exactly should I switch to bulking?

In terms of exercise, I hit the gym 3 times a week and do a fairly intense superset workout and play squash once a week. I'll probably modify this when ramadan comes.

This is an example day of diet (obv not hitting all my macros at the time, this was before I calculated them today :), this is also a summary without full amount details, pasted it from my excel worksheet):

Monday 3 Jun 2013

Breakfast at 9:30
250ml Low fat Milk
30g Bran Flakes
Spoonful of Honey

Breakfast 2 at 11:30
2 x Eggs
3 x Norlander Loaf Toast

Lunch at 14:00
2 Chicken Legs
Quinoa
Cucumber
Tomatoes
Onions
200g Yoghurt

Snack at 17:20
50g Cashews

Dinner at 19:30
Salmon 250g
100g Green Beans

Snack at 20:30
Mango

Total Calories 2327
Total Protein 172.4
Total Fat 78.2
Total Carbs 187.3
Total Salt 2.33
Protein/Fat/Carb Ratio: 39% 18% 43%

Thanks in advance and I apologize for the long winded post.

rand18m
06-17-2013, 12:14 PM
Without a pic it's difficult to answer your question, but my intuition tells me that if I did see a pic I would likely recommend bulking.

Your macro determinations in the first part of your post has your protein too high and fat too low. The macros in the day listed above are in a good range and that would represent a diet you should try to replicate in terms of composition imo.

FattyMcTubbs
06-17-2013, 12:24 PM
I would probably aim for more protein if I was you.

mardavich
06-17-2013, 12:34 PM
Without a pic it's difficult to answer your question, but my intuition tells me that if I did see a pic I would likely recommend bulking.

Your macro determinations in the first part of your post has your protein too high and fat too low. The macros in the day listed above are in a good range and that would represent a diet you should try to replicate in terms of composition imo.

Thanks man, I've attached two pics. What do you think? still bulk or cut?

I just read Emma's sticky earlier so I came up with those macros. I also feel 240g of protein is a bit too high, maybe aim for 200ish? Feel the 209 carbs are also a bit too high?

softpounder
06-17-2013, 12:43 PM
I would probably aim for more protein if I was you.

Brah, he's already eating 170g protein (as his final macro list suggests) with 176lbs bodyweight and probably 130-140lbs LBM.

It's fine.

justin0202
06-17-2013, 12:45 PM
Brah, he's already eating 170g protein (as his final macro list suggests) with 176lbs bodyweight and probably 130-140lbs LBM.

It's fine.

no way hes being srs...........

APipeDream
06-17-2013, 12:48 PM
Bulk!

mardavich
06-17-2013, 11:48 PM
Bulk!

Thanks for the reply, how comes I should be bulking though? When do you know when to bulk and when to cut? My aim is to be pretty much the same size, possibly a little larger but a lot more ripped.

06-18-2013, 12:03 AM
I am a man of science and logic first and foremost but my advise from the pictures you posted and the information you have given is to let go of so much concern and detail of what you think or others think 'you NEED to do '

Resistance train ( sometimes going to absolute fatigue ) rest when you are aching , eat healthy ( lots of salad,veg,oils,seed,beans,pulses,grains) slightly higher protein than the average amount

Just have the simple aim of becoming more muscular :)

mardavich
06-18-2013, 02:06 AM
I am a man of science and logic first and foremost but my advise from the pictures you posted and the information you have given is to let go of so much concern and detail of what you think or others think 'you NEED to do '

Resistance train ( sometimes going to absolute fatigue ) rest when you are aching , eat healthy ( lots of salad,veg,oils,seed,beans,pulses,grains) slightly higher protein than the average amount

Just have the simple aim of becoming more muscular :)

Fair point man, I get you. It's just that I don't want another 6 months to go by without me getting the results I want. I went from 107 kgs with like 25%ish body fat to the guy I am today but while I was doing that I just went with the eat healthy, exercise approach which worked out great (Although at times I documented my calories religiously for a couple of weeks to get an idea of how much I'm eating) I just want to understand exactly what I am doing to be able to get the results I want exactly. Also quite frustrated that the machine says I have 11%ish fat but I'm not sure I'm as defined as I want to be for that %age, that lower belly layer seems to never go away!

I agree I'm going a bit into OCD mode currently but once I get a good idea of which direction to go and how much calories I'm eating (i.e. set up my new routine), I generally take a more relaxed approach and guesstimate for the remaining months while I get the results I want. If not, I change something hoping to get closer to my goal.

My gut feeling tells me that I possibly should bulk up a little bit more, get a bit bigger chest and lean body mass with a clean bulk (i.e. 10% more calories) then cut down to get that defined 6 pack I want. But since ramadan is coming up, I think I'm just going to cut/eat at maintenance until it's over then concentrate on bulking afterwards. I also plan on finally getting my black belt in November, doing a triathlon in december and a marathon in Jan 2014. All of which it makes more sense to not be too bulky.

What do you know, I guess I did go into my life story, hehe. Anyway, appreciate everyone's 2 cents, helps me when I formulate my ideas for what's next :).

rand18m
06-18-2013, 04:28 AM
Thanks man, I've attached two pics. What do you think? still bulk or cut?

I just read Emma's sticky earlier so I came up with those macros. I also feel 240g of protein is a bit too high, maybe aim for 200ish? Feel the 209 carbs are also a bit too high?

You simply need to get into the gym with a well designed program and start adding muscle. The diet is important no doubt, but at this point eat a balanced diet, a slight surplus if possible and focus on learning how to train, the nuances of which are many. The fat you are concerning yourself with will take care of itself and later on down the road you can focus on getting extra lean, otherwise you'll end up finny! GL

mardavich
06-18-2013, 07:46 AM
You simply need to get into the gym with a well designed program and start adding muscle. The diet is important no doubt, but at this point eat a balanced diet, a slight surplus if possible and focus on learning how to train, the nuances of which are many. The fat you are concerning yourself with will take care of itself and later on down the road you can focus on getting extra lean, otherwise you'll end up finny! GL

Ok so I gotta bulk up a bit first then.

Atm I hit the gym 3 times a week with a PT. Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday and play an intense game of squash for an hour on Fridays. Workout is as follows:

Sunday: Chest and Triceps.... Supersets containing 2/3 different workouts with 10 reps each. I do 4 or 5 different of these supersets. Example Sets: Chest Press and dips. Incline Chest Press, Push ups and Skull Crushers.
Tuesday: Back and Biceps.... Same as above. Some examples sets: Deadlift, Bent over rows and barbell curls. Wide grip Lat Pulls, Narrow Grip Lat pull and lower back extensions.
Thursdays:Legs and Shoulders... Same above. Some example sets: Single Leg press, Shoulder flys and single leg extension. Weighted Squats, Barbell Lunges and shoulder press.

What do you think?

What does finny mean? Guessing tiny? Cheers man.

06-18-2013, 09:22 AM
Fair point man, I get you. It's just that I don't want another 6 months to go by without me getting the results I want. I went from 107 kgs with like 25%ish body fat to the guy I am today but while I was doing that I just went with the eat healthy, exercise approach which worked out great (Although at times I documented my calories religiously for a couple of weeks to get an idea of how much I'm eating) I just want to understand exactly what I am doing to be able to get the results I want exactly. Also quite frustrated that the machine says I have 11%ish fat but I'm not sure I'm as defined as I want to be for that %age, that lower belly layer seems to never go away!

I agree I'm going a bit into OCD mode currently but once I get a good idea of which direction to go and how much calories I'm eating (i.e. set up my new routine), I generally take a more relaxed approach and guesstimate for the remaining months while I get the results I want. If not, I change something hoping to get closer to my goal.

My gut feeling tells me that I possibly should bulk up a little bit more, get a bit bigger chest and lean body mass with a clean bulk (i.e. 10% more calories) then cut down to get that defined 6 pack I want. But since ramadan is coming up, I think I'm just going to cut/eat at maintenance until it's over then concentrate on bulking afterwards. I also plan on finally getting my black belt in November, doing a triathlon in december and a marathon in Jan 2014. All of which it makes more sense to not be too bulky.

What do you know, I guess I did go into my life story, hehe. Anyway, appreciate everyone's 2 cents, helps me when I formulate my ideas for what's next :).

I do not mean to psychoanalyze you , but my intuition tells me that maybe the best thing for you would be to 'let go' of trying to control what you 'want' and focus more on wanting -

When you are in the gym WANT to train

When you are cooking LOVE to cook

When you are eating ENJOY your food

When you get results appreciate and ENJOY them

I have all the science of food and physiology I could throw at you and reference to my hearts content but I believe it may aid the lack or results which I believe may manifest themselves through over expectation rather than just 'doing'

This is based on the intellectual capability you show in your questions on here ;)

STC1188
06-18-2013, 09:39 AM
Bulk. I understand you want to maintain your definition and get bigger, but you cannot be afraid of making a short-term sacrifice in order to hit long-term goals. And I don't mean dirty bulk, but any bulk will have you put on mass that is not muscle, and you have to accept that.

If you are not gaining, eat more. The good thing about lean bulking (or "clean" bulking) is that you make minimal increases, which allows you to keep the results under control (evaluate for a week or two and adjust). But I think you would definitely benefit from putting on some extra mass (unless you need to be exceptionally waif-like, which I doubt).

rand18m
06-18-2013, 10:59 AM
Ok so I gotta bulk up a bit first then.

Atm I hit the gym 3 times a week with a PT. Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday and play an intense game of squash for an hour on Fridays. Workout is as follows:

Sunday: Chest and Triceps.... Supersets containing 2/3 different workouts with 10 reps each. I do 4 or 5 different of these supersets. Example Sets: Chest Press and dips. Incline Chest Press, Push ups and Skull Crushers.
Tuesday: Back and Biceps.... Same as above. Some examples sets: Deadlift, Bent over rows and barbell curls. Wide grip Lat Pulls, Narrow Grip Lat pull and lower back extensions.
Thursdays:Legs and Shoulders... Same above. Some example sets: Single Leg press, Shoulder flys and single leg extension. Weighted Squats, Barbell Lunges and shoulder press.

What do you think?

What does finny mean? Guessing tiny? Cheers man.

At your level of experience I'm not sure why your PT has you doing supersets. Once again I recommend a good beginner program that focuses on building a base first. Supersets are a more advanced strategy when progress stalls after having everything before done correctly.

Finny is a term when someone primarily focuses on fat loss and they do lose weight but their body fat percentages changes little, they are skinny fat or finny!