PDA

View Full Version : What is done to Work The Lower Lats?



Jigfish
06-07-2013, 06:12 AM
What exercises can I do to hit the lower lats?

drudixon
06-07-2013, 06:36 AM
Wide Grip Pendlays and Deads do it for me.

TyHope
06-07-2013, 06:38 AM
I like cable rows, really focusing on squeezing the target area.

GuyJin
06-07-2013, 06:57 AM
Close-grip supinated pulldowns, cable rows or one-arm rows will all hit the lower lats. However, you'll only get that 'cobra' look if you have low insertion points. If you're high-latted, then no matter what you do, it ain't gonna happen.

PersonaNonGrata
06-07-2013, 07:06 AM
I always thought you just had to make 'em bigger?! Can one isolate the lower part specifically?

lolakitten
06-07-2013, 07:08 AM
Neutral grip pullups, cable rows, RDL...

mal1ce
06-07-2013, 07:18 AM
Like GuyJin and PersonaNonGrata have mentioned you can not target the "lower" lat. It's one long muscle that starts under your arm, wraps around the ribs, just behind the serratus, and then attaches to your back.

I've always found exrx.net to be a good resource when I'm looking to change up accessory work:
http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/BackWt.html#anchor125439

TouaregV8
06-07-2013, 07:37 AM
I always thought you just had to make 'em bigger?!


Like GuyJin and PersonaNonGrata have mentioned you can not target the "lower" lat. It's one long muscle that starts under your arm, wraps around the ribs, just behind the serratus, and then attaches to your back.

Amen! This goes back to the old "how do I add peak to my biceps, or how do it target the inner chest" debate. You can't change the physiology of your muscles, this is determined by your genetics. Have you ever seen anyone walking around with enormous lower lats and small upper lats? probably not. Focus on improving the overall muscle group and your lower lats will naturally improve.

2nd_chance
06-07-2013, 08:06 AM
Better genetics... i.e., lower lat inserts.

ArchAngel'73
06-07-2013, 08:47 AM
I always thought you just had to make 'em bigger?! Can one isolate the lower part specifically?

Yes, you sure in the hell can.
Many don't know how but I'll give a quick lesson;

Warm up, getting a pump and being able to feel the muscle where you want to feel it crucial.
It may be one big muscle but different parts of it are activated through various portions of the lift.
Now pick a light weight and experiment with your ROM, finding the portion of the exercise in which you feel your lower lat working the most.
Proceed with work sets with your ROM limited to that feeling.

Yes genetics plays a huge role in this but imo that's a self imposed limit unless someone truely has done all they can for years.

Chins, Pull ups, 1 arm DB rows, narrow grip lat pulldowns, 1 arm supinated pulldowns, and kneeling narrow reverse grip pulldowns are my weapons of choice for back width day (I do make back width an entire training session, back thickness is another).

x-trainer ben
06-07-2013, 09:21 AM
Yes, you sure in the hell can.
Many don't know how but I'll give a quick lesson;

Warm up, getting a pump and being able to feel the muscle where you want to feel it crucial.
It may be one big muscle but different parts of it are activated through various portions of the lift.
Now pick a light weight and experiment with your ROM, finding the portion of the exercise in which you feel your lower lat working the most.
Proceed with work sets with your ROM limited to that feeling.

Yes genetics plays a huge role in this but imo that's a self imposed limit unless someone truely has done all they can for years.

Chins, Pull ups, 1 arm DB rows, narrow grip lat pulldowns, 1 arm supinated pulldowns, and kneeling narrow reverse grip pulldowns are my weapons of choice for back width day (I do make back width an entire training session, back thickness is another).

Wow! Reps, i am amazed that you know this also because very few do; it took me years of experimenting with diff grips and angles to figure out what changes targeted what areas. Please do share your back thickness tips, Jerry B was the only other member i can recall discussing this.

Whiskeyjack
06-07-2013, 09:44 AM
Wow! Reps, i am amazed that you know this also because very few do; it took me years of experimenting with diff grips and angles to figure out what changes targeted what areas. Please do share your back thickness tips, Jerry B was the only other member i can recall discussing this.

Jerry B and I had a discussion on this with him preferring barbell rows for back thickness and me preferring T-bar rows - but both were rows so it was a pretty mild debate.

TouaregV8
06-07-2013, 10:12 AM
Yes, you sure in the hell can.
Many don't know how but I'll give a quick lesson;

Warm up, getting a pump and being able to feel the muscle where you want to feel it crucial.
It may be one big muscle but different parts of it are activated through various portions of the lift.
Now pick a light weight and experiment with your ROM, finding the portion of the exercise in which you feel your lower lat working the most.
Proceed with work sets with your ROM limited to that feeling.

Yes genetics plays a huge role in this but imo that's a self imposed limit unless someone truely has done all they can for years.

Chins, Pull ups, 1 arm DB rows, narrow grip lat pulldowns, 1 arm supinated pulldowns, and kneeling narrow reverse grip pulldowns are my weapons of choice for back width day (I do make back width an entire training session, back thickness is another).

Appreciate the lesson, however, what you are saying has been proven otherwise in numerous MRI/electrical muscle stimulation studies that I have read. I think we can all agree that the individual fibers of the latissimus dorsi run pretty much north and south, therefore, the fibers that make up the lower lat travel upward and are the same muscle fibers that make up the upper lat. When a muscle fiber is contracted the contraction takes place throughout that entire muscle fiber, not a portion of it which means you can't fire the lower lat without firing the upper lat. If what you are saying is true, then that means i can contract (or target) one part of the same muscle fiber without contracting the other? You must have an amazing mind/muscle connection.

EjnarKolinkar
06-07-2013, 10:47 AM
Appreciate the lesson, however, what you are saying has been proven otherwise in numerous MRI/electrical muscle stimulation studies that I have read. I think we can all agree that the individual fibers of the latissimus dorsi run pretty much north and south, therefore, the fibers that make up the lower lat travel upward and are the same muscle fibers that make up the upper lat. When a muscle fiber is contracted the contraction takes place throughout that entire muscle fiber, not a portion of it which means you can't fire the lower lat without firing the upper lat. If what you are saying is true, then that means i can contract (or target) one part of the same muscle fiber without contracting the other? You must have an amazing mind/muscle connection.

I can't make my torso shorter. Perhaps it's a fantasy to work an origin or insertion, wouldn't the downside of trying just be making a better connection to the muscle as a whole? With the upside of living the dream, creating more tension or torsion in one of the two areas.

While the entire muscle may fire, would the position of bone, load and plane of travel not impact loading of the fibers? IDK, I'm not smart enough to do anything but ask the questions.

jonebone
06-07-2013, 10:48 AM
Personally, I feel that Pull-Ups / Lat Pull downs hit my upper lats more.

When I really want a burn in the low lat area (at the insertion points) I do 1-Arm DB Rows focusing on strict lat contraction. Do not row the weight with your hands (as many people do)... instead focus on rowing with your elbows. Mentally focus and pull your elbow up your body, keeping it tight to the torso without it flaring out.

You will absolutely get a pump in your lower lat area, try it and see.

x-trainer ben
06-07-2013, 10:49 AM
I used to think like that.....after all they are scientists with machines and electrodes; then i came across a MD video where Charles Glass trains Ahn Ngyuen for his pro card.
I'll cut to the chase... he trained the guys lower chest area with an unusual position on the hammer strength chest press machine. Now i always read/was told that you *can't focus on the lower chest* you hit the entire chest. Well after a lil trial and error on my part i realized that Charles Glass was correct.

TouaregV8
06-07-2013, 10:57 AM
I used to think like that.....after all they are scientists with machines and electrodes; then i came across a MD video where Charles Glass trains Ahn Ngyuen for his pro card.
I'll cut to the chase... he trained the guys lower chest area with an unusual position on the hammer strength chest press machine. Now i always read/was told that you *can't focus on the lower chest* you hit the entire chest. Well after a lil trial and error on my part i realized that Charles Glass was correct.

You guys are confusing what I am saying here...upper chest vs lower chest is a whole different animal as the muscle fibers that make up the pectoral muscle run horizontal, and therefore, the fibers in the lower chest are different muscle fibers than the ones that make up the upper chest. I agree, upper/lower chest can be targeted, inner/outer cannot.

drudixon
06-07-2013, 11:05 AM
Appreciate the lesson, however, what you are saying has been proven otherwise in numerous MRI/electrical muscle stimulation studies that I have read. I think we can all agree that the individual fibers of the latissimus dorsi run pretty much north and south, therefore, the fibers that make up the lower lat travel upward and are the same muscle fibers that make up the upper lat. When a muscle fiber is contracted the contraction takes place throughout that entire muscle fiber, not a portion of it which means you can't fire the lower lat without firing the upper lat. If what you are saying is true, then that means i can contract (or target) one part of the same muscle fiber without contracting the other? You must have an amazing mind/muscle connection.

Thinking through this, electrical signalling does not = motor movement.

Looking at the image, you can see the muscles of the lat work in a stripe essentially. Daisy chained from one to the next.

http://fitkit.me/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Image-2.jpg

Depending on both the position of the scapula and the angle of the upper arm, the distance from the top attachment relative to each attachment along the spine changes. If band 1 of cells is minimal distance from arm attachment to top most spine attachment is minimum distance x and maximal distance y, then band 2 of cells is x + some number and y + some number. Continue this thought to account for all bands of cells.

What happens to the contraction if band 1 is minimum distance x, and band 1xn is maximum distance y + some number? A cellular contraction is a finite distance. A longer band of cells merely happens to have more cells in it. So, if a uniform signal causes all cells in any given arm / scapular position, and the contraction is exactly uniform, then, because the spinal attachments are fixed, but the upper arm is not, then the total contracted distance of band 1 = y - x. In the case of band 1xn, with each cell contracting uniformly, then the distance of the contraction is (y+some number) - (x+some number). In this case, we can see that the distance the upper arm moves in a given scapular position is greater for band 1xn than it is for band 1 by some number. That said, the arm and it's attachment moved one fixed distance along some arc A. Because the range of movement for the arm is fixed, but band 1 and band 1xn are different, it implies (at least to me with my probably faulty logic) that either: a) the amount of contraction for band 1 is different than band 1xn, or b) the count of cells in both bands are the same, they're merely farther apart in band 1xn, or c) the duration of contraction for band 1xn is longer, or d) amongst the length of the band the contraction is non- uniform.

Furthermore, looking at that lat, you can see how from a physics perspective different bands have a different amount of mechanical advantage than do others. One way to visualize I think is to imagine 4 equal weights attached to a class a lever. Even though all 4 weights are the same, the outer most weight has the greatest mechanical advantage that would results in the greatest amount of force and commensurate least amount of work. Consequently, if all bands in the chain have differing amounts of work, this would explain why some bands grow more than bands that do less work. Changing the positioning of scapula and upper arm changes the amount of force any band can apply with a given amount of work.

Just thinking aloud. This is how I picture it. I'm not a kinesiologist, just a bored nerd.

ironwill2008
06-07-2013, 11:09 AM
Appreciate the lesson, however, what you are saying has been proven otherwise in numerous MRI/electrical muscle stimulation studies that I have read. I think we can all agree that the individual fibers of the latissimus dorsi run pretty much north and south, therefore, the fibers that make up the lower lat travel upward and are the same muscle fibers that make up the upper lat. When a muscle fiber is contracted the contraction takes place throughout that entire muscle fiber, not a portion of it which means you can't fire the lower lat without firing the upper lat. If what you are saying is true, then that means i can contract (or target) one part of the same muscle fiber without contracting the other? You must have an amazing mind/muscle connection.

A single muscle cell doesn't span the origin to the insertion. Many cells are linked in series to form a strand, much as the individual links of a chain are connected together to form the entire length.

Groups of these cells (called motor units) are activated by the CNS individually, as the load calls upon them. IOW, it's not an "all or nothing" response from the brain that causes muscles to contract. If that were the case, a movement as simple as trying to scratch your nose would be a real "adventure."

http://i.imgur.com/a7xQFzS.jpg

x-trainer ben
06-07-2013, 11:13 AM
1:48 in the video is how i learned back in the 80's :)

http://muscle-insider.com/videos/training-back-and-biceps-mighty-mike-quinn

ironwill2008
06-07-2013, 11:39 AM
1:48 in the video is how i learned back in the 80's :)

http://muscle-insider.com/videos/training-back-and-biceps-mighty-mike-quinn

Yep. Experienced bodybuilders (like Mr. Quinn in the vid) have been doing ^^^^ this stuff for years.

And yes, it takes a lot of practice to develop the MMC required to do it.












As far as the 'Lower lat' issue in the OP, I've found this exercise to work particularly well when done precisely:

(tip o' the hat to Carlman/ntrllftr)

b3fmDarNZbo

induced_drag
06-07-2013, 12:07 PM
I would guess that most people who are concerned about making one small part bigger, would just benefit from well chosen compound exercises. In my opinion, people GREATLY over complicate things. I see time and time again (now that I am working out regularly in a gym), guys spending half their time (or more) on small isolation exercises. In my opinion, I have never seen a bigger waste of time. Guy was asking me how I got my traps so big......I told him I deadlift. He was surprised and asked if I did shrugs. I said no. No need to do them. Deads hit me better then shrugs ever could.

Very few people are at the point where they need to do this. (again my opinion). Possibly if they are working around injury.

ArchAngel'73
06-07-2013, 12:39 PM
Wow! Reps, i am amazed that you know this also because very few do; it took me years of experimenting with diff grips and angles to figure out what changes targeted what areas. Please do share your back thickness tips, Jerry B was the only other member i can recall discussing this.

Thank-you.
I learned this stuff just like you, the hard way.

I would think that would be another thread and perhaps very few would be interested...


Appreciate the lesson, however, what you are saying has been proven otherwise in numerous MRI/electrical muscle stimulation studies that I have read. I think we can all agree that the individual fibers of the latissimus dorsi run pretty much north and south, therefore, the fibers that make up the lower lat travel upward and are the same muscle fibers that make up the upper lat. When a muscle fiber is contracted the contraction takes place throughout that entire muscle fiber, not a portion of it which means you can't fire the lower lat without firing the upper lat. If what you are saying is true, then that means i can contract (or target) one part of the same muscle fiber without contracting the other? You must have an amazing mind/muscle connection.

I think IronWill's reply hit the nail on the head.

I might have a good MMC, I worked at it.
I can contract each quad, one at a time, in each of my legs, so maybe I do.-srs

Juggertha
06-07-2013, 06:32 PM
While genetics limits do play into lat development... I'm going to side with the folks saying there's more than one way to skin this cat.

pharmamarketer
06-07-2013, 07:35 PM
Guy was asking me how I got my traps so big......I told him I deadlift. He was surprised and asked if I did shrugs. I said no. No need to do them. Deads hit me better then shrugs ever could.

Very few people are at the point where they need to do this. (again my opinion). Possibly if they are working around injury.

Agree to that

Not taking away from what AA stated (the man knows his ****) I just don't think most people need to even think about it.

PersonaNonGrata
06-08-2013, 02:04 AM
I would guess that most people who are concerned about making one small part bigger, would just benefit from well chosen compound exercises. In my opinion, people GREATLY over complicate things. I see time and time again (now that I am working out regularly in a gym), guys spending half their time (or more) on small isolation exercises. In my opinion, I have never seen a bigger waste of time. Guy was asking me how I got my traps so big......I told him I deadlift. He was surprised and asked if I did shrugs. I said no. No need to do them. Deads hit me better then shrugs ever could.

Very few people are at the point where they need to do this. (again my opinion). Possibly if they are working around injury.
Do you deadlift higher volume? I tend to stick to 1-6 reps, 2-3 sets for deads, and rarely feel anything in the traps. My deadlift is quite good for someone my size (around 2.8x bw) but my traps are a lagging part.
I have been considering alternating pull sessions such that I do one heavy week and one light/volume week - say 8-12 reps, 3-4 sets?

OutOfStep
06-08-2013, 06:22 AM
Seated cable rows with a rope while sitting on a box. I use a wooden box for box squats flipped on its side about 6 inches high.

tornmuscle123
06-08-2013, 11:19 AM
Deads

deads of 6"box utilizing a snatch grip

EjnarKolinkar
06-09-2013, 01:28 AM
1:48 in the video is how i learned back in the 80's :)

http://muscle-insider.com/videos/training-back-and-biceps-mighty-mike-quinn

I get the, "Boring but Big" mentality many lifters espouse. If you start out symmetrical, with good shape, insertion and get results with the basics why would you venture out into the unorthodox? Not trying to devolve into special snowflakes.

I was watching a video earlier this week about cheating on rows and the number of top bodybuilders that have unorthodox rowing styles they adopted to build their backs. They each went outside the normal to fit their mechanics, correct weaknesses and imbalances. All way beyond my level and certainly nothing I plan to try any time soon. The do the basics but what works best, more was the take away for me not the cheating.

x-trainer ben
06-09-2013, 08:34 AM
I get the, "Boring but Big" mentality many lifters espouse. If you start out symmetrical, with good shape, insertion and get results with the basics why would you venture out into the unorthodox? Not trying to devolve into special snowflakes.

I was watching a video earlier this week about cheating on rows and the number of top bodybuilders that have unorthodox rowing styles they adopted to build their backs. They each went outside the normal to fit their mechanics, correct weaknesses and imbalances. All way beyond my level and certainly nothing I plan to try any time soon. The do the basics but what works best, more was the take away for me not the cheating.

Well for me i learned the traditional way to do things from my dad, like many of us, and after time i started to "tinker" with my technique. I watched this exact video on espn way back when and realized, by golly.... this guy is correct. :) If it didn't work i would have dropped it like a hot potato

tornmuscle123
06-09-2013, 04:10 PM
Do you deadlift higher volume? I tend to stick to 1-6 reps, 2-3 sets for deads, and rarely feel anything in the traps. My deadlift is quite good for someone my size (around 2.8x bw) but my traps are a lagging part.
I have been considering alternating pull sessions such that I do one heavy week and one light/volume week - say 8-12 reps, 3-4 sets?

why not just add in shrugs -

IronjunkieOG
06-09-2013, 04:15 PM
Appreciate the lesson, however, what you are saying has been proven otherwise in numerous MRI/electrical muscle stimulation studies that I have read. I think we can all agree that the individual fibers of the latissimus dorsi run pretty much north and south, therefore, the fibers that make up the lower lat travel upward and are the same muscle fibers that make up the upper lat. When a muscle fiber is contracted the contraction takes place throughout that entire muscle fiber, not a portion of it which means you can't fire the lower lat without firing the upper lat. If what you are saying is true, then that means i can contract (or target) one part of the same muscle fiber without contracting the other? You must have an amazing mind/muscle connection.

Thanks for saving me from typing so much :-)

IronjunkieOG
06-09-2013, 04:24 PM
If you want to feel your lats ache the next couple days so you know you got a killer lat work out, then start out with as wide of a grip as you can go for chins (and no half way chins, you need to do an actual full chin) and try to get at least 8 for 3 sets. Next, do close/reverse grip pullups and then go onto the rest of your back routine and I assure you that your lower/upper lats will be talking to you over the next couple days. Those have been key for me and my wide winged back.

TouaregV8
06-09-2013, 04:45 PM
Thanks for saving me from typing so much :-)

Thanks bro. Seems a lot of members on here buy in to one of the most common bodybuilding myths. It's not up to me to try to convince otherwise.

GuyJin
06-09-2013, 05:16 PM
I've read the back-and-forth studies put forth, and people always ask if you can 'target' a section of the muscle. Just remembered reading an article. According to Jose Antonio, PhD, you can...but it takes a lot of work and the results may not be what you're hoping for.

It seems that muscles are not just 'whole' sections, but segmented much like pearls on a chain. So if you wanted to work the 'end' pearl, you'd do an exercise to target that little gem, but...and this is a big but...it all adds up to a lot of work for relatively little returns.

Now, if you're a competitive bodybuilder who's reached his/her genetic potential (or gotten as close to it as humanly possible), then I can see 'targeting' that muscle. Ex: doing loads of preachers and concentration curls to hit the area affecting bicep peak, doing more leg extensions to hit the lower quad area, cable rows or Carlman pulls or one-arm rows for the lower lats, etc.

However, if you're the average gym rat who wants to get big(ger) then FWIW I'd just concentrate on all the basics to get all of your muscles bigger and let Mother Nature sort out the rest. Just my two yen for the day...

IronjunkieOG
06-09-2013, 06:56 PM
I've read the back-and-forth studies put forth, and people always ask if you can 'target' a section of the muscle. Just remembered reading an article. According to Jose Antonio, PhD, you can...but it takes a lot of work and the results may not be what you're hoping for.

It seems that muscles are not just 'whole' sections, but segmented much like pearls on a chain. So if you wanted to work the 'end' pearl, you'd do an exercise to target that little gem, but...and this is a big but...it all adds up to a lot of work for relatively little returns.

Now, if you're a competitive bodybuilder who's reached his/her genetic potential (or gotten as close to it as humanly possible), then I can see 'targeting' that muscle. Ex: doing loads of preachers and concentration curls to hit the area affecting bicep peak, doing more leg extensions to hit the lower quad area, cable rows or Carlman pulls or one-arm rows for the lower lats, etc.

However, if you're the average gym rat who wants to get big(ger) then FWIW I'd just concentrate on all the basics to get all of your muscles bigger and let Mother Nature sort out the rest. Just my two yen for the day...

Everybody has an opinion .. including Jose Antonio. Muscles are not segmented .. several thousand muscle diagrams on the net will show this. They are whole sections which have names for each section (not for each link) and the reason different exercises are performed to achieves symmetry by bodybuilders are simply because of form. One exercise may target the primary muscle more than "others", and therefore the "others" may include secondary muscles to execute the exercise. Obviously just because there is one primary exercise that works a particular muscle best (due to being isolated), does not mean that is the only exercise one should do for the targeted muscle being worked. That's why we use several exercises to work one primary muscle so we can build symmetry based on our weaknesses. The latissimus dorsi muscle is one whole section of muscle. If you want to get techinical the serratus anterior muscle could be looked at as the lower lat but it is its own whole section of muscle. Regardless .. the serratus anterior muscle would be worked just as you would your lattisumus dorsi.


P.S. I like your quotes by the way .. especially the one by Threadweaver :-)

Juggertha
06-09-2013, 09:21 PM
Here's a question for anyone who thinks you can't work "one part of a muscle" - can you neglect one part of a muscle?

Whiskeyjack
06-10-2013, 05:18 PM
A short description of all back muscles and how to work them.

http://www.ironmanmagazine.com/qa-your-back-muscles-and-how-they-work/

JOHN GARGANI
06-11-2013, 06:46 AM
Well: if it were absolutely true that the entire muscle contracted EVENLY, throughout, then , that would completely negate any ideas of using VARIOUS exercises: we would all then need only ONE exercies per bodypart....


the problem, and this is a tough one, that we are confusing SHAPE with "LOOK": yes, our muscles have a basic genetic shape, HOWEVER, we can change the LOOK AND APPEARANCE of them....


so: if you do , say, 3 different LAT exercises where, with your MMC, you "feel" it more in the top, middle and bottom, with each successive movement, what you ARE getting is a more complete workout of the muscle, and then, overall, it will grow better and really all of the "parts" will look better.....

induced_drag
06-11-2013, 07:42 AM
. we would all then need only ONE exercies per bodypart....

....


John....pretty much describing my workouts. (Not that extreme, but pretty close). I look for compounds that hit as much of a muscle group as possible and build my routine around those. On the back as an example, there are so many muscles that you must hit it in different manners. But I dont go crazy. I just rotate in different things over time.

I do almost ZERO isolation work. (every once in a while I will do a set or two just for fun)

Again....it is my belief that very few people are at a stage of development where they should even be thinking about 'sculpting' and they should just be concentrating on providing stimulus overall. I also still believe that most people would benefit from dropping most of their isolation "MMC" work, and simply replacing with a good, heavy (relative) compound exercise.

EAlbz78
06-11-2013, 06:50 PM
I think any stubborn body part needs variety but the priority is always intensity.
I like Wide grip pull downs and use things like static holds after reps, drop sets and changing tempos of the movement. Heavy weight like 85% max and fast reps always controlled, then 65-70% max and slow really controlled reps. You can get wings that spread, I assure you!

JOHN GARGANI
06-12-2013, 03:33 AM
I think any stubborn body part needs variety but the priority is always intensity.
I like Wide grip pull downs and use things like static holds after reps, drop sets and changing tempos of the movement. Heavy weight like 85% max and fast reps always controlled, then 65-70% max and slow really controlled reps. You can get wings that spread, I assure you!

very nice first post!

x-trainer ben
06-12-2013, 06:17 AM
I think the focus on isolating a particular area stems from seeing it lag behind after DOING heavy compounds over a period of time .no? Lets say you focused on back but you find that the lower lat area isn't even close in development to the other areas.

ArchAngel'73
06-12-2013, 07:43 AM
I think the focus on isolating a particular area stems from seeing it lag behind after DOING heavy compounds over a period of time .no? Lets say you focused on back but you find that the lower lat area isn't even close in development to the other areas.

For me it is.

EjnarKolinkar
06-12-2013, 06:49 PM
I think any stubborn body part needs variety but the priority is always intensity.


Fremont brah, strong 1st post.