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Xiantium
06-05-2013, 10:45 AM
200lb age 27, Height 5'11 I don't have caliper's but I think my bodyfat % is somewhere between 9-11% judging from my vascularity and photo charts (veins showing nicely in arms/legs/shoulders all the time) not just pumped. I have a 5ish pack going on and I can tell there is still fat to lose around my belly button. I wonder if I should tweak my diet to cut down on the carbs or cut down on the fat or just do more cardio. Currently doing cardio 2-3x a week for 15-25 mins of HIT training (sprints) In addition to normal weight lifting. Should be noted my lifestyle if very sedentary also. Trying to do the same as everyone else lose the fat and keep as much muscle as I can. Please help!

Breakfast 8:00 am
1 cup oats = 300 cal
2 scoops protein 240 cal
3 eggs = 210 cal
750 cal, 56 carbs, 76 protein.

Lunch. 12:00 pm
1 cup brown rice = 160
6 oz turkey = 345 cal
1 tbl spoon olive oil = 120 cal
sauce + onion = 50 cal
675 cal, 36 carbs, 40 protein.

Dinner. 4:00 pm
1 cup brown rice = 160
6 oz turkey = 345 cal
505 cal, 36 carbs, 40 protein.

4th Meal. 8:00 pm
Sweet potato = 160 cal
6 oz chicken = 190 Cal
1 tbl spoon olive oil = 150 cal
500 Cal, 36 carbs, 40 protein

Pre workout meal.
1 scoop protein = 120 cal
10g simple carb = 40 cal
1/2 cups oats = 150 cal
310 cal, 37 carbs, 30 protein

Post workout meal
1 scoop Protein = 120 cal
15g simple carb = 60 cal
1/2 cup oats = 150 cal
330 cal, 42 carbs, 30 protein

Before bed Casein protein. 10:00 pm
1 scoop Casein 130 cal
130 cal, 24 protein

Total = 3200 Cal, 243g carbs, 280g protein, 123g Fat

200lb age 27, Height 5'11 I don't have caliper's but I think my bodyfat % is somewhere between 9-11% judging from my vascularity (veins showing nicely in arms/legs/shoulders all the time) not just pumped. I have a 5ish pack going on and I can tell there is still fat to lose around my belly button. I wonder if I should tweak my diet to cut down on the carbs or cut down on the fat or just do more cardio. Currently doing cardio 2-3x a week for 15-25 mins of HIT training (sprints) In addition to normal weight lifting. At a bit of a sticking point.

HealingHands8
06-05-2013, 10:48 AM
You dont lose/gain weight depending on amounts of dietary fat or carbs, as net energy balance dictates this. What exactly are you wanting to achieve?

MrBillson
06-05-2013, 10:48 AM
Eat at a caloric deficit while meeting macro/micro requirements.

Also your diet looks very bland. Why are you eating so often? And why so many shakes?

Also if you don't have visible abs you're probably not ~10% bf.

Xiantium
06-05-2013, 10:57 AM
You dont lose/gain weight depending on amounts of dietary fat or carbs, as net energy balance dictates this. What exactly are you wanting to achieve?

Just to get that last ab to pop out and have slightly better separation without losing a bunch of weight to do it.

MrBillson
06-05-2013, 10:59 AM
Just to get that last ab to pop out and have slightly better separation without losing a bunch of weight to do it.

Just maintain a calorie deficit. Lose a bit more fat and the abs will show.

Xiantium
06-05-2013, 11:00 AM
Eat at a caloric deficit while meeting macro/micro requirements.

Also your diet looks very bland. Why are you eating so often? And why so many shakes?

Also if you don't have visible abs you're probably not ~10% bf.

The diet is super bland. Trying to keep insulin levels from spiking by keeping a steady influx of complex carbs every 4 hours hopefully to burn up fat. Shakes are there because lack of idea's to replace them with. All of my abs are visible but they all seem "soft" ? I guess I want better separation and to have a harder, dryer look.

MrBillson
06-05-2013, 11:06 AM
The diet is super bland. Trying to keep insulin levels from spiking by keeping a steady influx of complex carbs every 4 hours hopefully to burn up fat. Shakes are there because lack of idea's to replace them with. All of my abs are visible but they all seem "soft" ? I guess I want better separation and to have a harder, dryer look.

Did you know a sweet potato spikes your insulin more than plain sugar? - unless you are diabetic you really don't need to concern yourself with GI levels.

It sounds like you just need to cut. Soft looking abs just means there's a layer of fat sitting on top of your six pack.

Xiantium
06-05-2013, 11:10 AM
Did you know a sweet potato spikes your insulin more than plain sugar? - unless you are diabetic you really don't need to concern yourself with GI levels.

It sounds like you just need to cut. Soft looking abs just means there's a layer of fat sitting on top of your six pack.

Honestly I didn't know that about sweet potato. That's probably the extra calories Ill cut then.

Mrpb
06-05-2013, 11:12 AM
A few points:
There are no proven benefits of eating so often.
Brown rice isn't necessarily healthier than white rice.
There are no proven benefits to consuming more than .75lb protein per lb bw.
You don't need to worry about 'spiking your insulin'.

I would definitely not enjoy eating like that (bland). Why not eat foods you enjoy while still achieving caloric deficit?

MrBillson
06-05-2013, 11:12 AM
Honestly I didn't know that about sweet potato. That's probably the extra calories Ill cut then.

You missed the second part.

You really don't need to worry about insulin spikes if you are not diabetic.

phozosado
06-05-2013, 11:13 AM
Honestly I didn't know that about sweet potato. That's probably the extra calories Ill cut then.

.umm.....

The correct way to read that would have been "gee, I guess this so-called insulin spike is total nonsense" not "gee, I guess I wont eat those either."

Xiantium
06-05-2013, 11:23 AM
.umm.....

The correct way to read that would have been "gee, I guess this so-called insulin spike is total nonsense" not "gee, I guess I wont eat those either."

Well good point. I was just looking at something to cut out though. I guess after reading all the above replies I could probably cut out on anything I felt like it and only need to eat 3x a day while maintaining the same calorie intake.

Xiantium
06-05-2013, 11:24 AM
You missed the second part.

You really don't need to worry about insulin spikes if you are not diabetic.

Had a few problems with blood sugar dropping and feeling really terrible and light headed. It hasn't been a problem for me since I started eating more frequently.

phozosado
06-05-2013, 11:26 AM
Had a few problems with blood sugar dropping and feeling really terrible and light headed. It hasn't been a problem for me since I started eating more frequently.

Of course that ^^^ changes things. Either way, though, if you're taking in frequent meals and feeling better, a sweet potato or two mixed in there shouldn't screw with your body comp.

MrBillson
06-05-2013, 11:26 AM
Had a few problems with blood sugar dropping and feeling really terrible and light headed. It hasn't been a problem for me since I started eating more frequently.

That's understandable then - just don't go thinking that simple sugars are going to make you fat, or that they are needed PWO.

Mrpb
06-05-2013, 11:26 AM
I guess after reading all the above replies I could probably cut out on anything I felt like it and only need to eat 3x a day while maintaining the same calorie intake.

Yes eat what you like and when you like while achieving macro and micros.

Xiantium
06-05-2013, 11:29 AM
A few points:
There are no proven benefits of eating so often.
Brown rice isn't necessarily healthier than white rice.
There are no proven benefits to consuming more than .75lb protein per lb bw.
You don't need to worry about 'spiking your insulin'.

I would definitely not enjoy eating like that (bland). Why not eat foods you enjoy while still achieving caloric deficit?

Everything I have ever heard has been to eat frequent small meals threw out the day was the way to go. Are you saying that's just bro-science with no backing? Brown rice digests slower giving a more level rate of energy I had read. As for .75lb protein per lb bw I have once again heard different my entire life. Ill do some homework because it would be nice not to eat so many shakes. Bland food was pretty easy and healthy, didn't mind doing it but if there is a better proven way to go about things I would be all for it.

phozosado
06-05-2013, 11:32 AM
No, the whole meal-timing thing doesn't really factor into body comp. It does affect how you feel, though, so just follow that. I only eat twice a day myself, but I don't have any blood sugar issues.

MrBillson
06-05-2013, 11:35 AM
Everything I have ever heard has been to eat frequent small meals threw out the day was the way to go. Are you saying that's just bro-science with no backing? Brown rice digests slower giving a more level rate of energy I had read. As for .75lb protein per lb bw I have once again heard different my entire life. Ill do some homework because it would be nice not to eat so many shakes. Bland food was pretty easy and healthy, didn't mind doing it but if there is a better proven way to go about things I would be all for it.

The only way thing you need to base your meal frequency on is what makes you most comfortable. I personally graze through the day, but there are many people who eat all their food in a six hour window. All the things about small frequent meals improving nutrient retention is just broscience.

Also shoot for 0.82g protein/lb.

Xiantium
06-05-2013, 11:41 AM
No, the whole meal-timing thing doesn't really factor into body comp. It does affect how you feel, though, so just follow that. I only eat twice a day myself, but I don't have any blood sugar issues.

Twice a day?? No kidding. Struggling with getting over the concept of you can eat 1x or 7x and it doesn't change how your body absorbs/stores the calories. I had previous heard from some people who were all a lot smaller then myself so I just disregarded them at once that as long as the same calories are there it doesn't matter. I guess that's true then?

Mrpb
06-05-2013, 11:43 AM
Everything I have ever heard has been to eat frequent small meals threw out the day was the way to go. Are you saying that's just bro-science with no backing?

Yes. See here for example: http://www.alanaragon.com/an-objective-look-at-intermittent-fasting.html



Brown rice digests slower giving a more level rate of energy I had read.

The GI difference isn't meaningful for most active people w/o diabetes, see here for example: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/glycaemic-index-effects-on-fuel-partitioning-in-humans.html
http://alanaragon.com/glycemic-index

Brown rice does have more fibre, but it also has some anti nutrients.



As for .75lb protein per lb bw I have once again heard different my entire life. Ill do some homework because it would be nice not to eat so many shakes. Bland food was pretty easy and healthy, didn't mind doing it but if there is a better proven way to go about things I would be all for it.



Anyway, re: protein , I suggest you review relevant research by clicking here (http://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/) and in summary:


Tarnopolsky et al. (1992) observed no differences in whole body protein synthesis or indexes of lean body mass in strength athletes consuming either 0.64g/lb or 1.10g/lb over a 2 week period. Protein oxidation did increase in the high protein group, indicating a nutrient overload.

Walberg et al. (1988) found that 0.73g/lb was sufficient to maintain positive nitrogen balance in cutting weightlifters over a 7 day time period.

Tarnopolsky et al. (1988) found that only 0.37g/lb was required to maintain positive nitrogen balance in elite bodybuilders (over 5 years of experience, possible previous use of androgens) over a 10 day period. 0.45g/lb was sufficient to maintain lean body mass in bodybuilders over a 2 week period. The authors suggested that 0.55g/lb was sufficient for bodybuilders.

Lemon et al. (1992) found no differences in muscle mass or strength gains in novice bodybuilders consuming either 0.61g/lb or 1.19g/lb over a 4 week period. Based on nitrogen balance data, the authors recommended 0.75g/lb.

Hoffman et al. (2006) found no differences in body composition, strength or resting hormonal concentrations in strength athletes consuming either 0.77g/lb or >0.91g/lb over a 3 month period.

phozosado
06-05-2013, 11:44 AM
Twice a day?? No kidding. Struggling with getting over the concept of you can eat 1x or 7x and it doesn't change how your body absorbs/stores the calories. I had previous heard from some people who were all a lot smaller then myself so I just disregarded them at once that as long as the same calories are there it doesn't matter. I guess that's true then?

As far as the studies are concerned, yeah. But a lot of people go around squawking about how "MEAL TIMING DOESN"T MATTER AT ALL!" and that's nonsense. No, according to studies it doesn't impact your body composition in a major way, but it does affect performance and how you feel. Otherwise I'd pound an 18 inch pizza ten minutes before squatting. I used to do the whole 7 meals a day thing until reading up on it and then switched - no change in my body comp at all.

I roll at 175 pounds, so I have to keep close to that weight too. I'd definitely be bitchin' if it didn't work.

Xiantium
06-05-2013, 11:55 AM
Yes. See here for example

Brown rice does have more fibre, but it also has some anti nutrients.

Those links are pure gold. I am going reread all of that in detail in a minute since I skimmed over it but wow. I am going to rehaul my entire diet and make a new plan since this one is a real pain compared to eating only 3x a day. Thank you this is super helpful.

Had to remove links since my post count is below 50.

Xiantium
06-05-2013, 12:00 PM
As far as the studies are concerned, yeah. But a lot of people go around squawking about how "MEAL TIMING DOESN"T MATTER AT ALL!" and that's nonsense. No, according to studies it doesn't impact your body composition in a major way, but it does affect performance and how you feel. Otherwise I'd pound an 18 inch pizza ten minutes before squatting. I used to do the whole 7 meals a day thing until reading up on it and then switched - no change in my body comp at all.

I roll at 175 pounds, so I have to keep close to that weight too. I'd definitely be bitchin' if it didn't work.

This has been really helpful. Going to go do some homework and plan a diet around 3 meals a day. Something like 8:00 am breakfast, then about 2 hours before lifting Ill eat my second meal so I know I wont crash in the gym and then about 2-3 hours before bed eat the last meal. I don't know just yet how I want to break it down I got to do some homework and put it all together and drop some shakes and oats and replace it with something that tastes better for sure.

MrBillson
06-05-2013, 12:03 PM
This has been really helpful. Going to go do some homework and plan a diet around 3 meals a day. Something like 8:00 am breakfast, then about 2 hours before lifting Ill eat my second meal so I know I wont crash in the gym and then about 2-3 hours before bed eat the last meal. I don't know just yet how I want to break it down I got to do some homework and put it all together and drop some shakes and oats and replace it with something that tastes better for sure.

Solid plan man. Also the meal timing doesn't have to be the same everyday.

Just be careful not to take the whole "foods you like" thing too far. Your diet should be based primarily on whole, minimally processed foods. But you can definitely allow yourself to eat things which would be considered "junk" on a regular basis.

GL

phozosado
06-05-2013, 12:06 PM
This has been really helpful. Going to go do some homework and plan a diet around 3 meals a day. Something like 8:00 am breakfast, then about 2 hours before lifting Ill eat my second meal.....

Cool, man. The stickies in this section are really great for this kind of thing. Good luck.

Xiantium
06-05-2013, 12:08 PM
Cool, man. The stickies in this section are really great for this kind of thing. Good luck.

Thanks I will go check those out too! This has been a very enlightening morning for me for sure! I really appreciate all the help.