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mydealbox
05-07-2013, 02:12 PM
I am not a follower of the Paleo diet simply because it restricts me from eating many foods I enjoy, but I was curious what you all thought of this, especially ones who follow the diet.

h ttp://io9.com/why-the-paleo-diet-and-lifestyle-are-not-based-in-scien-493239551

ironwill2008
05-07-2013, 02:15 PM
No one should need anything other than plain common sense to realize 'paleo' is nothing more than a gimmick used by charlatans to squeeze money out of na´ve noobs.

WonderPug
05-07-2013, 02:17 PM
^^^ This x2.

cumminslifter
05-07-2013, 02:18 PM
^^^ This x3

Wumonger
05-07-2013, 02:32 PM
No one should need anything other than plain common sense to realize 'paleo' is nothing more than a gimmick used by charlatans to squeeze money out of na´ve noobs.

I have been eating Paleo for over a year and suffice to say that I'm very happy with it. I'm curious on what basis you make this claim considering there's nothing to buy. There's no Paleo Club that charges a monthly fee. There's no special kitchen gadgets or DVDs that you have to buy. Are you talking about cookbooks? Frankly, I haven't spent hardly anything on Paleo-related stuff other than maybe a cookbook. I have far more non-Paleo cookbooks than Paleo cookbooks so I'm trying to understand the basis for your comment.

IMO Paleo is eating common sense. Forget all the stuff about Paleolithic diets, ancestral health, evolutionary digestive systems. Too many people get caught up in the caveman part of the diet and not on the diet itself. At the root of Paleo are common sense principals: stop eating processed food and eat nutrient dense whole foods. Many of the topics in this very Nutrition section espouse Paleo Diet ideas without having to label it Paleo. If you get over the label and just look at what the core ideas of the diet are, you'll see that it's many of the common sense principles people talk about in this forum. I think too many people judge it without knowing what the diet really is about. They focus on the Caveman part and think it's all about eating only red meat.

Eating Paleo has also taught me a lot of about my food intolerances that I didn't know I had. I had some acid reflux, what I could only label as IBS, and a lot of gas. All of that went away as I came to realize that I was gluten-intolerant. I used to feel really unhealthy overall and I feel like I have more energy in the gym. I've dropped about 15lbs of body fat and put on about 5-7 lbs of muscle. I cook for myself a lot more now so I'm eating healthier overall. There's no downside here.

naturalguy
05-07-2013, 02:38 PM
I have been eating Paleo for over a year and suffice to say that I'm very happy with it. I'm curious on what basis you make this claim considering there's nothing to buy. There's no Paleo Club that charges a monthly fee. There's no special kitchen gadgets or DVDs that you have to buy. Are you talking about cookbooks? Frankly, I haven't spent hardly anything on Paleo-related stuff other than maybe a cookbook. I have far more non-Paleo cookbooks than Paleo cookbooks so I'm trying to understand the basis for your comment.

IMO Paleo is eating common sense. Forget all the stuff about Paleolithic diets, ancestral health, evolutionary digestive systems. Too many people get caught up in the caveman part of the diet and not on the diet itself. At the root of Paleo are common sense principals: stop eating processed food and eat nutrient dense whole foods. Many of the topics in this very Nutrition section espouse Paleo Diet ideas without having to label it Paleo. If you get over the label and just look at what the core ideas of the diet are, you'll see that it's many of the common sense principles people talk about in this forum. I think too many people judge it without knowing what the diet really is about. They focus on the Caveman part and think it's all about eating only red meat.

Eating Paleo has also taught me a lot of about my food intolerances that I didn't know I had. I had some acid reflux, what I could only label as IBS, and a lot of gas. All of that went away as I came to realize that I was gluten-intolerant. I used to feel really unhealthy overall and I feel like I have more energy in the gym. I've dropped about 15lbs of body fat and put on about 5-7 lbs of muscle. I cook for myself a lot more now so I'm eating healthier overall. There's no downside here.

True, people get caught up on the word "Paleo" and they can't see past that. I don't think anyone would argue that eating whole foods, more vegetables and fruit and quality protein sources is bad.

APipeDream
05-07-2013, 02:40 PM
Highly unnecessary way to live in my opinion, especially when it excludes tons of foods I would rather not live without. Whether the diet it is based in scientific reality or not makes no difference to me - it falls into the same category as the other fad diets to me. I choose to eat what I want and could care less what "category" it falls in.

WonderPug
05-07-2013, 02:44 PM
IMO Paleo is eating common sense. There is nothing logical about the arbitrary restriction of foods.

Wumonger
05-07-2013, 02:52 PM
There's nothing arbitrary about the foods that are restricted. There's very good reason for every food that is not allowed on the diet. Some of those reasons are stronger than others (grains, for example), and some are more grey and debated (legumes and dairy, for example).

Please back up your comments with solid examples. Otherwise you're just making blanket statements made out of ignorance of the diet.

WonderPug
05-07-2013, 02:54 PM
There's nothing arbitrary about the foods that are restricted. There's very good reason for every food that is not allowed on the diet. Some of those reasons are stronger than others (grains, for example), and some are more grey and debated (legumes and dairy, for example).Incorrect.

The dietary restrictions in "paleo" programs are simply arbitrary when applied to broad populations.

Wumonger
05-07-2013, 02:58 PM
Incorrect.

The dietary restrictions in "paleo" programs are simply arbitrary when applied to broad populations.

I'm not following you so I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

WonderPug
05-07-2013, 03:10 PM
I'm not following you so I guess we'll just agree to disagree.A lot of the "paleo" nutrition is based on convincing those with absolutely no knowledge of nutrition to do arbitrary, illogical and contradictory things.

For example, "paleo" doesn't allow for any trans fat consumption (see here (http://www.livingpaleo.com/foods-to-avoid-on-the-paleo-diet/)), but of course red meat and whole eggs contain trans fat. So the paleo diet arbitrarily restricts the consumption of all foods that contain trans fats while advocating for the consumption of foods that contain trans fats (likely because the folks making up the nutritional guidelines for "paleo" don't even know what foods contain trans fats).

Now do you start to see the problem?

Wumonger
05-07-2013, 03:26 PM
Yes, I think I'm understanding your argument. I don't want to be the Defender of the Diet here. I'm just an ordinary joe trying to understand my body and educate myself. I'm not going to dip my toe into trying to debate with people here the fine details of nutrition because I'm sure I will lose. I can only share my personal, first-hand experience.

All I can say is that this is a diet that has worked for me after trying many things. I'm getting to a body comp that I've been trying to achieve for many, many years that no amount of exercise or eating low-fat, low carb has been able to achieve for me. In terms of what I've eliminated from my diet, I've eliminated processed foods, soda, grains (as I mentioned I've discovered I'm gluten intolerant), and seed oils. I still occasionally consume dairy and legumes, but I don't shop for it and bring it into my home. I've increased the amount of vegetables that I consume and it's forced me to learn to cook more for myself. I eat a variety of animal proteins, but that was something I did before. I probably eat more red meat than I used to. These all seem like good things to me. I don't see the illogical and contradictory things that I'm doing.

WonderPug
05-07-2013, 03:33 PM
I probably eat more red meat than I used to. These all seem like good things to me. I don't see the illogical and contradictory things that I'm doing.
You're not permitted to consume trans fats on a "paleo" diet (see link in prior post).

You're consuming red meat. Red meat contains trans fats. Thus, you're not allowed to consume red meat based on the actual nutritional content of said meat given the "rule" about not consuming trans fats.

Now does that seem logical to you?

ironwill2008
05-07-2013, 03:37 PM
I'm curious on what basis you make this claim considering there's nothing to buy....

http://primalblueprint.com/categories/Store/Supplements/

Terrimonas
05-07-2013, 05:09 PM
Yes, I think I'm understanding your argument. I don't want to be the Defender of the Diet here. I'm just an ordinary joe trying to understand my body and educate myself. I'm not going to dip my toe into trying to debate with people here the fine details of nutrition because I'm sure I will lose. I can only share my personal, first-hand experience.

All I can say is that this is a diet that has worked for me after trying many things. I'm getting to a body comp that I've been trying to achieve for many, many years that no amount of exercise or eating low-fat, low carb has been able to achieve for me. In terms of what I've eliminated from my diet, I've eliminated processed foods, soda, grains (as I mentioned I've discovered I'm gluten intolerant), and seed oils. I still occasionally consume dairy and legumes, but I don't shop for it and bring it into my home. I've increased the amount of vegetables that I consume and it's forced me to learn to cook more for myself. I eat a variety of animal proteins, but that was something I did before. I probably eat more red meat than I used to. These all seem like good things to me. I don't see the illogical and contradictory things that I'm doing.

The Paleo Diet: The otherworldly diet that transcends physical laws.

Murdok1741
05-07-2013, 05:29 PM
I have been eating Paleo for over a year and suffice to say that I'm very happy with it. I'm curious on what basis you make this claim considering there's nothing to buy. There's no Paleo Club that charges a monthly fee. There's no special kitchen gadgets or DVDs that you have to buy. Are you talking about cookbooks? Frankly, I haven't spent hardly anything on Paleo-related stuff other than maybe a cookbook. I have far more non-Paleo cookbooks than Paleo cookbooks so I'm trying to understand the basis for your comment.

IMO Paleo is eating common sense. Forget all the stuff about Paleolithic diets, ancestral health, evolutionary digestive systems. Too many people get caught up in the caveman part of the diet and not on the diet itself. At the root of Paleo are common sense principals: stop eating processed food and eat nutrient dense whole foods. Many of the topics in this very Nutrition section espouse Paleo Diet ideas without having to label it Paleo. If you get over the label and just look at what the core ideas of the diet are, you'll see that it's many of the common sense principles people talk about in this forum. I think too many people judge it without knowing what the diet really is about. They focus on the Caveman part and think it's all about eating only red meat.

Eating Paleo has also taught me a lot of about my food intolerances that I didn't know I had. I had some acid reflux, what I could only label as IBS, and a lot of gas. All of that went away as I came to realize that I was gluten-intolerant. I used to feel really unhealthy overall and I feel like I have more energy in the gym. I've dropped about 15lbs of body fat and put on about 5-7 lbs of muscle. I cook for myself a lot more now so I'm eating healthier overall. There's no downside here.

Hey man, if it's working for you and you're enjoying it, more power to you. The problem many people have with "paleo" are the wild claims that it makes to rationalize not eating certain foods. To this extent, and others, makes these food restrictions arbitrary and unnecessary. Most of the claims (that grains are bad, for example) have cherry picked "case studies" that support them. In many cases, there's no real scientific reasoning behind the claims, and the science that it does choose from, is misinterpreted to support their claims.

I agree with some of the basic principles you had mentioned that are espoused by the diet, which is limit consumption of processed food and focus on nutrient dense foods. However, that's where the agreement stops as paleo then goes on to restrict many foods and make the wild claims that are being discussed here.

Paleo has everything to gain from this because the general public (uneducated and na´ve about nutrition) is always looking to find the next best thing in dieting, likely because they had failed in previous attempts with other diets that they, at the time, believed to be the best solution. When people buy into the idea, they then buy into products related to paleo or books that support the philosophy.

x-ray vision
05-07-2013, 06:43 PM
IMO Paleo is eating common sense. Forget all the stuff about Paleolithic diets, ancestral health, evolutionary digestive systems.
Why are you asking for others to forget that? You want people to forget the reasons why the claims made by the Paleo crowd are idiotic? That's the whole point!

What is commonsensical about restricting grains, beans, potatoes and dairy?

rand18m
05-07-2013, 06:54 PM
Yes, I think I'm understanding your argument. I don't want to be the Defender of the Diet here. I'm just an ordinary joe trying to understand my body and educate myself. I'm not going to dip my toe into trying to debate with people here the fine details of nutrition because I'm sure I will lose. I can only share my personal, first-hand experience.

All I can say is that this is a diet that has worked for me after trying many things. I'm getting to a body comp that I've been trying to achieve for many, many years that no amount of exercise or eating low-fat, low carb has been able to achieve for me. In terms of what I've eliminated from my diet, I've eliminated processed foods, soda, grains (as I mentioned I've discovered I'm gluten intolerant), and seed oils. I still occasionally consume dairy and legumes, but I don't shop for it and bring it into my home. I've increased the amount of vegetables that I consume and it's forced me to learn to cook more for myself. I eat a variety of animal proteins, but that was something I did before. I probably eat more red meat than I used to. These all seem like good things to me. I don't see the illogical and contradictory things that I'm doing.

I'm glad your diet is working for you and eating the foods you have described is fine. For the most ardent Paleo crowd what you eat might not work, but every diet out there has their fanatical crowd and they are always wrong. It sounds to me like you would do better, (as you kinda stated above) dropping the paleo moniker and just eat what seems to be a reasonable diet by someone who has gluten issues. Steaks and salads can't be bad man!! ;)

desslok
05-07-2013, 08:31 PM
I still occasionally consume dairy and legumes,


So its so good that you don't even follow it? And that's the point people make, its too arbitrarily restrictive, based on false assumptions. So just call it eating whole, minimally processed foods, and eat those. You don't say "Yeah, I'm strict Vegan, but sometimes will eat steak and chicken".

PR1MO
05-07-2013, 09:18 PM
I follow a ketogenic diet but I still eat carbs

WonderPug
05-08-2013, 02:37 AM
Wumonger: I'm interested in your reply to the substantive arguments posted above.

KobiDC
05-08-2013, 02:42 AM
I don't need to read a book to know that eating a unnecessarily restrictive diet has no additional benefit to my physique or sanity, when compared to eating a diet composed of the foods I enjoy.

Gxp23
05-08-2013, 02:53 AM
I'm not following you so I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

Pug likes to use complicated big people words, you need o take your time reading his posts, very mature indeed.

AlwaysTryin
05-08-2013, 04:15 AM
I follow a ketogenic diet but I still eat carbs

Doubt wumonger will get the joke lol

Wumonger
05-08-2013, 09:45 AM
Wumonger: I'm interested in your reply to the substantive arguments posted above.

Well like I said, I don't want to be the Defender of the Diet and I have no interest in convincing the world that it's the be-all and end-all. When it comes to studies, nutritional content, etc. I will lose. I will attempt to address what I can though, since you asked. The OP asked if anyone had an experience with it, so I'm just saying that this is something that works well for me, and I feel like it's empowered me to make some significant lifestyle changes.

Regarding Trans Fats: this is actually the first argument I've read in Paleo that said to avoid trans fats, other than the trans fats in processed foods. The framework that I've understood was to avoid certain oils, such as canola, sunflower, vegetable in favor of coconut oil, olive oil, macadamia nut oil, avocado oil. I didn't think it was trans fats as much as the Omega-3 to Omega-6 ratio. Honestly, I don't understand much about trans fats so I can't argument your point there. Paleo does recommend to make your red meat choice grass-fed beef over CAFO beef due to the Omega-3 to Omega-6 ratio. I really can't argue your point much here because I feel like I need to go do some more education myself on this now.

Regarding not following Paleo 100%: Actually Paleo encourages self-experimentation and making dietary choices based on one's goals and reaction to foods. If one wanted to be 100% Paleo then sure dairy, legumes, starches would be off limits, but most Paleo advocates would recommend to self-experiment. If one does not have a food tolerance to those items and they are not contrary to one's dietary goals, then by all means include them in your diet. Anyone who's trying to lose a great deal of weight, they'd recommend to be 100% Paleo, but for me I choose to occasional consume dairy and legumes.

Regarding the word Paleo: I say to forget it because too many people focus on that word rather than the diet itself. People immediately think it's a diet about eating like a Caveman, hunting and gathering your own food, eating only read meat. For me personally, I could care less about the origins of the diet. Does anyone care about how Atkins came up with his diet or how Keto originated? If Atkins had originally been called the Martian Diet, it would have been attacked incessantly for things that have nothing to do with the ideas behind the diet. "How do we know what Martians ate?" "If the diet is so great, why aren't Martian's alive today?" So my point there was don't focus on the name, focus on the Diet. If Paleo had been called The Cordain Diet or even No Processed Food Diet, I think it'd be attacked a lot less.

Regarding "I follow a Ketogenic diet but I still eat carbs": I got the joke. But your own joke defeats your argument. No diet should be 100% absolute. Even in Ketogenic diets, one eats carbs cyclically. There are exceptions to all the rules and the important factor is knowing what the rules are and making educated decisions as to when and why you deviate from those rules. I understand the rules behind the foods on the no-fly list and I make my dietary decisions accordingly. At the end of the day no one should be following a diet blindly without understanding the rules behind it. (Yes, I get that many of you don't agree with the Paleo rules, but I'm obviously not going to convince you. Nor am I really trying.)

Well, those are my responses. I feel like I'm pretty open minded to the arguments against Paleo so I hope people can be opened minded to the arguments in favor of it. Most of the arguments in this thread have not been arguments at all but mocking, and that doesn't serve any purpose in furthering the conversation. Like I said, I don't want to be the Defender of the Diet because I could care less if I convert anyone. It's also not a great feeling to be singled out and ganged up on, even if it is cyberspace. But the OP asked for people's experiences on the diet so that's what I'm sharing. If other people have more questions about Paleo I'd be happy to share my personal experience, but I feel like my vested interest in this thread is done.

x-ray vision
05-08-2013, 10:01 AM
People immediately think it's a diet about eating like a Caveman
That's the rationale given for the diet, so their immediate impression would be correct.


For me personally, I could care less about the origins of the diet.
It would be a good idea if you did, as you would then learn that you are restricting foods for no good reason.


If Atkins had originally been called the Martian Diet, it would have been attacked incessantly for things that have nothing to do with the ideas behind the diet.
Poor example, as the name of the Paleo diet has everything to do with the ideas behind the diet.


If Paleo had been called The Cordain Diet or even No Processed Food Diet, I think it'd be attacked a lot less.
Maybe, but it would be just as dumb as there is room for processed food in one's diet that contain little micro-nutrition and there are plenty of processed foods that are highly nutritious, e.g., oatmeal, cottage cheese, yogurt, chocolate, etc. Restricting grains, beans, tubers and dairy is even dumber.



I feel like I'm pretty open minded to the arguments against Paleo so I hope people can be opened minded to the arguments in favor of it.
You said you don't care about its origins. If you were open minded, you'd bother to learn what they are and you'll be in a better position to make a rational decision regarding it.

ironwill2008
05-08-2013, 10:52 AM
Grains, beans, potatoes, and dairy ...................The Gang of Silent Killers

















But that $129.00 bag of supplement powder (along with all the other bull**** he peddles) on sisson's Paleo website is good stuff.


:rolleyes:

WillBrink
05-20-2013, 07:39 PM
I am not a follower of the Paleo diet simply because it restricts me from eating many foods I enjoy, but I was curious what you all thought of this, especially ones who follow the diet.

h ttp://io9.com/why-the-paleo-diet-and-lifestyle-are-not-based-in-scien-493239551

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