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View Full Version : Another baby killed in the name of religion



MartinRoberts
04-12-2013, 11:05 AM
Article explaining the crime: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2304793/Two-babies-stricken-HERPES-ritual-oral-blood-sucking-circumcision-New-York-City.html

My video response after reading the article: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YYUbNaKShs


Right, we all know that circumcision is a widely practiced procedure performed for both religious and health reasons, the procedure itself isn't the focus of this thread but instead the practice as done by the Rabbi here. My attitude is that anything done in the name of religion is done for the wrong reasons and this article explains exactly why barbaric dark-aged religious practices should be abolished.

The power of religion is so powerful that the baby-victim's parents even refuse to name the Rabbi; they would rather protect him and allow more babies to be killed by him. Performing this kind of procedure in this manner is sick beyond and kind of decent belief, why would any sane person allow this kind of atrocity? It falls into both sexual and physical abuse, if a man were to slice off some of a baby's flesh and then perform oral sex on them they would be rightly removed from society but as soon as you dress them up as a 'man of God' they become free to commit whichever sick fantasies they choose.

Many, many innocent people are harmed by religious practices and by people considered to be practitioners of religion, how far do they have to go before they are stopped? How many babies must be given Herpes and killed before the insanity stops?

carnivore74
04-12-2013, 11:20 AM
What a medieval disgusting procedure!

boseador
04-12-2013, 11:25 AM
That is child abuse. Mutilating the child's genitalia, without the child's consent and in the name of religion.

HaterSalad
04-12-2013, 11:28 AM
It's astonishing that people would follow such beliefs based on religion. The brainwash is strong.

MartinRoberts
04-12-2013, 11:33 AM
The simple fact that the more strict a religious practicce the more barbaric and extreme it is should be enough to stop it but unfortunately while the vast majority of those in power are religious they will always argue for 'religious freedom' which defends acts like this. You beat your child black and blue? That's child abuse! Wait, he didn't say grace before dinner? Oh, that's a different story...

boseador
04-12-2013, 11:53 AM
The thing is that back in the day when religion had power over everyone, no one would dare say a word, because religion would not allow anyone to speak freely and criticize it. People got killed and tortured by religion for thinking freely.

Now that religion is weak, it approaches us in the form of apologetics with ingratiating smirks and arms wide open, offering solidarity and sympathy.

Why should we forget how they treated us and how we were all threatened by religion when it was strong?

MartinRoberts
04-12-2013, 12:02 PM
The thing is that back in the day when religion had power over everyone, no one would dare say a word, because religion would not allow anyone to speak freely and criticize it. People got killed and tortured by religion for thinking freely.

Now that religion is weak, it approaches us in the form of apologetics with ingratiating smirks and arms wide open, offering solidarity and sympathy.

Why should we forget how they treated us and how we were all threatened by religion when it was strong?

Back in the day? I wish! There are still many areas of the world (and even some areas in the States and UK) where people are imprisoned and tortured/killed for simply being Atheist or not following a strict enough religious regime, there are also far too many strict/militant/orthodox religious types that continue to prevent progression and refuse to accept that times have changed. Yes, several thousand years ago sexualy mutilating children was acceptable but it shouldn't be any more, using dirty appliences and 'sucking' the wound clean may have been the right thing to do back then but thanks to science we know this to be a terrible act to commit but there will always be those that consider science to be an abomination and refuse to even begin to try and understand it.

IDrinkBloodLOL
04-12-2013, 12:23 PM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6cdaikxd11rx9ntho1_500.gif

mehdi84
04-12-2013, 01:11 PM
Wait... wtf. The kid didn't die from circumcision. The dude was sucking his penor and gave him herpes, and that's part of the practice? WTF!

IDrinkBloodLOL
04-12-2013, 01:21 PM
Wait... wtf. The kid didn't die from circumcision. The dude was sucking his penor and gave him herpes, and that's part of the practice? WTF!

Now you know why some people out there have issues with circumcision and "those who perform circumcision."

boseador
04-12-2013, 01:33 PM
Wait... wtf. The kid didn't die from circumcision. The dude was sucking his penor and gave him herpes, and that's part of the practice? WTF!

WTF?

idon'twanttoliveinthisplanetanymore.igf

MartinRoberts
04-12-2013, 01:35 PM
Wait... wtf. The kid didn't die from circumcision. The dude was sucking his penor and gave him herpes, and that's part of the practice? WTF!

I made that point in the opening post, that this is not about the procedure but the way it was performed. Circumcision for religious reasons is pointless, the reasons it was performed thousands of years ago are no longer occuring but people are so stuck in their ways that they refuse to stop.

CXC3000
04-12-2013, 01:37 PM
That is child abuse. Mutilating the child's genitalia, without the child's consent and in the name of religion.

Stop over-reacting.

The penis is not damaged after circumcision. It performs just as it did before the snip.

MartinRoberts
04-12-2013, 01:38 PM
Stop over-reacting.

The penis is not damaged after circumcision. It performs just as it did before the snip.

Yes it is, the foreskin is surgically removed and in some cases the victim dies (as the child did here). There is no reason for circumcision.

CXC3000
04-13-2013, 04:21 AM
Yes it is, the foreskin is surgically removed and in some cases the victim dies (as the child did here). There is no reason for circumcision.

The reason for the death of a child is because it wasn't done properly. There's millions of adults who've gone through the same thing (as babies) and they're absolutely fine.

You cannot use a few sad and tragic instances to justify putting an end to the entire procedure.

MartinRoberts
04-13-2013, 04:28 AM
The reason for the death of a child is because it wasn't done properly. There's millions of adults who've gone through the same thing (as babies) and they're absolutely fine.

You cannot use a few sad and tragic instances to justify putting an end to the entire procedure.

My justification for saying the procedure should be dropped is because it is not only pointless but also causes harm, the simple fact that it is performed without anaesthesia should be enough to stop it being done but it seems that hurting babies is perfectly fine as long as you use religion as an excuse.

CXC3000
04-13-2013, 05:34 AM
My justification for saying the procedure should be dropped is because it is not only pointless...

To you maybe, but not to billions of others.


..but also causes harm..

As mentioned in my last post, millions of adults had the procedure done as babies and they're absolutely fine.


...the simple fact that it is performed without anaesthesia should be enough to stop it being done but it seems that hurting babies is perfectly fine as long as you use religion as an excuse.

There are measures placed to reduce the pain considerably (especially in this day and age). And you can argue back and forth against the practice but I doubt you'll get anywhere.

MartinRoberts
04-13-2013, 05:42 AM
To you maybe, but not to billions of others.

As mentioned in my last post, millions of adults had the procedure done as babies and they're absolutely fine.

There are measures placed to reduce the pain considerably (especially in this day and age). And you can argue back and forth against the practice but I doubt you'll get anywhere.

So tell me, why do billions not consider it pointless? What is the point in the procedure exacly?

If you were abused as a baby/newborn would you be able to say that you are fine now? I have experienced pain before and it hasn't made me much different (that I'm aware of) but still there's no reason to hurt children in this way.

There are methods to make many things less painful but why inflict the pain in the first place? Again, what is the point?

Krypt0nite
04-13-2013, 05:46 AM
OP sees the world as black or white, without realizing there's plenty of gray in between.

While I totally disagree with the OP regarding the need to ban this ritual, I agree with the OP about one thing, this is a surgical procedure, and as such it should be both supervised by the proper authorities as well as carried out only by a trained, certified professional.

In Israel, where the vast majority of the population are secular Jews, the 'brith' (circumcision act) is often carried out by medical doctors, who also have the proper religious certification ('mohel'), so while they keep all the religious tradition, they still carry out a full medical procedure including administering local anesthetic to the baby, as well as clinic check ups a couple of times after the procedure to monitor the recovery progress.
The act of 'sucking a drop of blood' (what you all referred to as pen0r sucking), is part of a tradition and the doctor does that via a special tube (think EMT's resuscitation mask but different), where there is never any direct contact between his mouth and the baby's penis, this prevents various problems, including the risk of infection, as well as the uneasy gesture to many people.

That's how it's done by modern Jews, the more religious groups (aka orthodox) still perform the act in what is unacceptable manner to me, and I think the medically supervised procedure acceptable in Israel is the one they should adopt.

MartinRoberts
04-13-2013, 05:49 AM
OP sees the world as black or white, without realizing there's plenty of gray in between.

While I totally disagree with the OP regarding the need to ban this ritual, I agree with the OP about one thing, this is a surgical procedure, and as such it should be both supervised by the proper authorities as well as carried out only by a trained, certified professional.

In Israel, where the vast majority of the population are secular Jews, the 'brith' (circumcision act) is often carried out by medical doctors, who also have the proper religious certification ('mohel'), so while they keep all the religious tradition, they still carry out a full medical procedure including administering local anarchistic to the baby, as well as clinic check ups a couple of times after the procedure to monitor the recovery progress.
The act of 'sucking a drop of blood' (what you all referred to as pen0r sucking), is part of a tradition and the doctor does that via a special tube, where there is never any direct contact between his mouth and the baby's penis.

That's how it's done by modern Jews, the more religious groups (aka orthodox) still perform the act in what is unacceptable manner to me, and I think the medically supervised procedure acceptable in Israel is the one they should adopt.

I do not see the world as just black or white, I see it for what it is. Simply put there is no need for circumcision or religion for that matter, any act in the name of religion should be abolished.

Jpz
04-13-2013, 05:53 AM
This is so messed up. Think about the guy who came up with this procedure...oh yep time to circumcise the baby, oh lord look at all that blood, no time to grab an absorbent cloth, better use my mouth.

What the hell seriously!

MartinRoberts
04-13-2013, 06:00 AM
This is so messed up. Think about the guy who came up with this procedure...oh yep time to circumcise the baby, oh lord look at all that blood, no time to grab an absorbent cloth, better use my mouth.

What the hell seriously!

Don't get me wrong, thousands of years ago when there was no such thing as antiseptics it may have made sense to suck a wound to clean it, done in this manner is sick beyond belief but I can understand why it may have been done. The circumcision was performed for similar reasons, to prevent infections of that area brought on by lack of good personal hygeine yet now, thousands of years later, we understand biology a bit more and have soaps and stuff to prevent infection.

So can someone please tell me why this procedure still 'needs' to take place? Creationists always argue that if God wanted us to be A, B or C then he would have made it so (such as Adam&Eve not Adam&Steve etc), if that's true then he'd have created us with a bare glans. Where's the logic in this line of thought?

ChickenDiapers
04-13-2013, 06:51 AM
Genital mutilation is barbaric! People do these horrible things directly inspired by religion.

NattyKanadian
04-13-2013, 06:55 AM
That is child abuse. Mutilating the child's genitalia, without the child's consent and in the name of religion.

I'm circumcised, I guess my cawk isn't the same as yours.

MartinRoberts
04-13-2013, 07:01 AM
I'm circumcised, I guess my cawk isn't the same as yours.

If he isn't circumcised and you are then yes, you will look different.

Rockman
04-13-2013, 07:07 AM
What kind of sick and twisted human would do something like this? So do all orthodox jews get this done? Or is this a rare ritual?

Sucking bloody baby penor in the name of God. Wow.

ChickenDiapers
04-13-2013, 07:11 AM
What kind of sick and twisted human would do something like this?
A religious person

boseador
04-13-2013, 07:27 AM
I'm circumcised, I guess my cawk isn't the same as yours.

I am cut too. Lost sensitivity now, cant feel chit.

Messier_Object
04-13-2013, 07:40 AM
My wife and I didn't want our son circumcised but, it wasn't our call. After he went through it, we realized there is nothing barbaric about it. The child doesn't notice and it heals quickly. The worst part is we are stuck with a $400 bill for a procedure we didn't want.

And it's not a religious practice to have your infants penis sucked by a herpes infested rabbi.

CXC3000
04-13-2013, 07:45 AM
I am cut too. Lost sensitivity now, cant feel chit.

Must be you. I'm cut also and it feels great :)

BTW, I can't believe I actually agree with some of the Neo-Zs in this thread...(must be my age)...

MartinRoberts
04-13-2013, 07:53 AM
Must be you. I'm cut also and it feels great :)

BTW, I can't believe I actually agree with some of the Neo-Zs in this thread...(must be my age)...

It would be polite to name the people you're insulting.

MartinRoberts
04-13-2013, 07:54 AM
My wife and I didn't want our son circumcised but, it wasn't our call. After he went through it, we realized there is nothing barbaric about it. The child doesn't notice and it heals quickly. The worst part is we are stuck with a $400 bill for a procedure we didn't want.

And it's not a religious practice to have your infants penis sucked by a herpes infested rabbi.

It wasn't your call? I don't know where you live but I suggest you move to an area that has some human rights.

Messier_Object
04-13-2013, 07:57 AM
It wasn't your call? I don't know where you live but I suggest you move to an area that has some human rights.

We adopted. Birth mother has all rights until she signs the papers.

MartinRoberts
04-13-2013, 08:00 AM
We adopted. Birth mother has all rights until she signs the papers.

Ah, that makes sense in a nonsensical way. I don't understand why the biological mother would demand the procedure though and it seems stupid to foot you with the bill after.

You said that your child didn't notice but I'm sure he experienced some pain with the procedure, I simply can not comprehend why anyone would choose to circumcise a child.

CXC3000
04-13-2013, 08:04 AM
It would be polite to name the people you're insulting.

No insults from my end.

And they know who they are :)

Messier_Object
04-13-2013, 08:09 AM
Ah, that makes sense in a nonsensical way. I don't understand why the biological mother would demand the procedure though and it seems stupid to foot you with the bill after.

You said that your child didn't notice but I'm sure he experienced some pain with the procedure, I simply can not comprehend why anyone would choose to circumcise a child.

It's dumb how it's set up. She has full rights for 24hrs after birth, which is the soonest she can sign off her rights. After she signs off, we sign our rights to the child which includes all costs. We told her we didn't want it done, but it was her call. It went from us not wanting it done due to unnecessary pain for an unnecessary procedure to just an unnecessary procedure. All they are given is a pacifier dipped in sugar water as an anesthetic. He didn't flinch or cry when it was done.

MartinRoberts
04-13-2013, 08:19 AM
It's dumb how it's set up. She has full rights for 24hrs after birth, which is the soonest she can sign off her rights. After she signs off, we sign our rights to the child which includes all costs. We told her we didn't want it done, but it was her call. It went from us not wanting it done due to unnecessary pain for an unnecessary procedure to just an unnecessary procedure. All they are given is a pacifier dipped in sugar water as an anesthetic. He didn't flinch or cry when it was done.

There are still dangers such as immunity issues. Also if the biological mother had any kind of anaesthesia during labour it would pass through the baby, for some time this caused many to believe that babies were immune to pain and as a result lead to a lot of deaths through shock.

The way they go about things as far as adoption goes should be revised, at least we can all agree on that.