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clumdixon
03-26-2013, 12:20 AM
First time on here so hope im doing this right.

Currently im 187lb , 5 9" , 17%bf
Looking to drop to 12%bf and add 6lb of muscle?!

Have been eating 3000kcals
40/40/20

0600am: 4 egg white ,2 whole, 75g oats, banana, flaxseed

1000am: 150g chicken, 200g sweet pot, vegetables

0100pm: 1 scoop ONwhey, apple, 25g nuts

0400pm: (same as 1000am)

0500pm: preworkout supps

0700pm: postworkout, 1 scoop ONwhey, banana

0800pm: 200g salmon/steak, 150g sweet pot, vegetables

1100pm: 1 scoop ONcasein, tbspPNB

ChrisAnthonyNel
03-26-2013, 12:28 AM
Critique based on what criteria? Are you asking if doing ^ this everyday will result in you achieving dropping body fat and gaining muscle at the same time?

necon76
03-26-2013, 12:34 AM
Pick one goal & work on that. Trying for 2 at a time is damn near impossible.
Stop using ratios to formulate your diet, they're pointless.
Eating 7 or 8 times a day is completely unnecessary.

ChrisAnthonyNel
03-26-2013, 12:40 AM
Pick one goal & work on that. Trying for 2 at a time is damn near impossible.
Stop using ratios to formulate your diet, they're pointless.
Eating 7 or 8 times a day is completely unnecessary.

1) I wouldn't say trying for 2 at a time is damn near impossible. Just hard, and not advisable. There is a wealth of information on good calorie cycling programs out there
2) What's wrong with ratios?
3) I agree with you on high meal frequency being unnecessay

Almogmon
03-26-2013, 12:41 AM
Seems fine, but why are you eating chicken at 10AM? hahaha. CHICKEN FOR BREAKFAST MOFUKA?

AlwaysTryin
03-26-2013, 12:50 AM
1) I wouldn't say trying for 2 at a time is damn near impossible. Just hard, and not advisable. There is a wealth of information on good calorie cycling programs out there
2) What's wrong with ratios?
3) I agree with you on high meal frequency being unnecessay

And? What do you think calorie cycling will do?

Requirements are based on weight, not ratios

necon76
03-26-2013, 12:53 AM
1) I wouldn't say trying for 2 at a time is damn near impossible. Just hard, and not advisable. There is a wealth of information on good calorie cycling programs out there
2) What's wrong with ratios?
3) I agree with you on high meal frequency being unnecessay


Very few people other than a rank beginner will have notable success trying to lose fat & gain muscle simultaneously.


Ratios are arbitrary numbers. Much better to set intake levels in relation to bodyweight. His plan has him on at least 50% more protein than he actually requires, & a fat intake that is below the minimum recommended level.

ChrisAnthonyNel
03-26-2013, 01:06 AM
Calorie cycling is a way to build muscle and lose fat at the "same time". Same time as in a week/month span, not within a single day. Rank beginners are usually the ones who see muscle gain during a cut if the diet/training is set up right, especially very overweight beginners. Ratios aren't the starting point in calibrating a diet, agreed. But ratios can act as a guideline. Meaning one can set up macros based on lean body mass and then adjust from there based on a desired ratio.

Lyle Mcdonald: bodyrecomposition - calorie-partitioning-part-2

necon76
03-26-2013, 01:11 AM
Calorie cycling is a way to build muscle and lose fat at the "same time". Same time as in a week/month span, not within a single day. Rank beginners are usually the ones who see muscle gain during a cut if the diet/training is set up right, especially very overweight beginners. Ratios aren't the starting point in calibrating a diet, agreed. But ratios can act as a guideline. Meaning one can set up macros based on lean body mass and then adjust from there based on a desired ratio.

Lyle Mcdonald: bodyrecomposition - calorie-partitioning-part-2


Well he's clearly not a rank beginner.

And wouldn't it make more sense just to start with the correct information in the first place instead of a meaningless ratio that requires adjusting?

ChrisAnthonyNel
03-26-2013, 01:26 AM
Well he's clearly not a rank beginner.

And wouldn't it make more sense just to start with the correct information in the first place instead of a meaningless ratio that requires adjusting?

I would start with setting up macros, beginning with protein allotment, based off of lean body mass. Then, considering a host of other variables, I would set fat and carb macros. Checking the ratios, while not necessary, can tell you if your diet is way out of whack. So I disagree with them being pointless.

necon76
03-26-2013, 01:32 AM
I would start with setting up macros, beginning with protein allotment, based off of lean body mass. Then, considering a host of other variables, I would set fat and carb macros. Checking the ratios, while not necessary, can tell you if your diet is way out of whack. So I disagree with them being pointless.


How exactly will a ratio determine if one's diet is 'way out of whack'?

ChrisAnthonyNel
03-26-2013, 01:41 AM
How exactly will a ratio determine if one's diet is 'way out of whack'?

For instance lets say you want to follow a diet/training plan like Lyle Mcdonald's UD2. He shows that research points to a distinct up-regulation of fat oxidation when carbs fall below less than 20% of caloric intake and advices that trainees set carbs to less than 20% of caloric intake (after setting up protein macro based on LBM). He then specifies a ratio allotment that your macros should roughly replicate if properly set up. If you set up your macros and find out that your caloric intake from carbs are over 20% and is actually at 50%, one is forced to reevaluate the set macros and correct the error. Hence knowledge of ratios being beneficial, and not meaningless.

necon76
03-26-2013, 01:54 AM
For instance lets say you want to follow a diet/training plan like Lyle Mcdonald's UD2. He shows that research points to a distinct up-regulation of fat oxidation when carbs fall below less than 20% of caloric intake and advices that trainees set carbs to less than 20% of caloric intake (after setting up protein macro based on LBM). He then specifies a ratio allotment that your macros should roughly replicate if properly set up. If you set up your macros and find out that your caloric intake from carbs are over 20% and is actually at 50%, one is forced to reevaluate the set macros and correct the error. Hence knowledge of ratios being beneficial, and not meaningless.


Well that's one very specific scenario that's really not applicable in this (or the majority of) situation/s. Lyle himself doesn't even recommend that protocol to those above 12%, so that really does nothing to assist the OP of this thread.

ChrisAnthonyNel
03-26-2013, 02:36 AM
Well that's one very specific scenario that's really not applicable in this (or the majority of) situation/s. Lyle himself doesn't even recommend that protocol to those above 12%, so that really does nothing to assist the OP of this thread.

Point taken. I just hate it when people use absolutes in regards to nutrition and fitness. Words like meaningless, pointless, wrong, right, good, bad etc., are not applicable in a world where everything depends on context.

necon76
03-26-2013, 02:56 AM
Point taken. I just hate it when people use absolutes in regards to nutrition and fitness. Words like meaningless, pointless, wrong, right, good, bad etc., are not applicable in a world where everything depends on context.


Exactly. Context. Advice is usually best when given specifically to the situation at hand, & not based on assumption or speculation.

And the reason we like to be so specific in our recommendations is because misinformation spreads like wildfire in this community, as I'm sure you're aware.

clumdixon
03-26-2013, 05:53 AM
Thanks for replying to my thread. I agree thats its hard to lose fat and build new muscle at the same time. I eat at these times because they are my breaks at work... I was planning on being in calorie surplus for anogher 4 weeks then starting to cut. What changes would you make to my diet?? I think i need less protein, more carbs and fats??

ChrisAnthonyNel
03-26-2013, 09:56 AM
Thanks for replying to my thread. I agree thats its hard to lose fat and build new muscle at the same time. I eat at these times because they are my breaks at work... I was planning on being in calorie surplus for anogher 4 weeks then starting to cut. What changes would you make to my diet?? I think i need less protein, more carbs and fats??

Your meal choice is your preferance. What are your daily macros? Just taking a quick look at what you listed.. it looks like you're taking in protein in excess of 500 grams a day??

clumdixon
03-26-2013, 10:19 AM
Your meal choice is your preferance. What are your daily macros? Just taking a quick look at what you listed.. it looks like you're taking in protein in excess of 500 grams a day??

240 protein
250 carbs
65 fats

Thats what i worked it out as?

Ciano123
03-26-2013, 10:41 AM
First time on here so hope im doing this right.

Currently im 187lb , 5 9" , 17%bf
Looking to drop to 12%bf and add 6lb of muscle?!

Have been eating 3000kcals
40/40/20

0600am: 4 egg white ,2 whole, 75g oats, banana, flaxseed

1000am: 150g chicken, 200g sweet pot, vegetables

0100pm: 1 scoop ONwhey, apple, 25g nuts

0400pm: (same as 1000am)

0500pm: preworkout supps

0700pm: postworkout, 1 scoop ONwhey, banana

0800pm: 200g salmon/steak, 150g sweet pot, vegetables

1100pm: 1 scoop ONcasein, tbspPNB

looks good man, maybe substitute one of your sweet potato meals with quinoa or rice to get more variety in your carb sources! and get more sleep 7 hours isn't much haha!

ChrisAnthonyNel
03-26-2013, 11:09 AM
240 protein
250 carbs
65 fats

Thats what i worked it out as?

My mistake. I read 150g chicken as 150g protein from chicken lol. Well I've got your caloric maintenance without lifting to be around 2300. With lifting activity your maintenance on a lifting day would be roughly 2700. So if you're taking in 3000 calories that puts you at a 300 caloric surplus. I would up this a caloric surplus a tad bit on lifting days.

And acording to your macro listings that's barely over 2500 calories. Aren't you aiming for 3000? And your protein is too high. When in a caloric surplus you only need roughly the same amount of protein as your lean body weight. So you can reduce your protein from 240 to about 160g since you have 155.6lb of lean body mass on you. Move the grams "saved" from protein over to your carbs. So you can increase your carbs from 250 to 330. Add about 115g carbs to bring your caloric intake to about 3000 calories.

160g Protein
445g Carbs
65g Fats

clumdixon
03-26-2013, 12:55 PM
My mistake. I read 150g chicken as 150g protein from chicken lol. Well I've got your caloric maintenance without lifting to be around 2300. With lifting activity your maintenance on a lifting day would be roughly 2700. So if you're taking in 3000 calories that puts you at a 300 caloric surplus. I would up this a caloric surplus a tad bit on lifting days.

And acording to your macro listings that's barely over 2500 calories. Aren't you aiming for 3000? And your protein is too high. When in a caloric surplus you only need roughly the same amount of protein as your lean body weight. So you can reduce your protein from 240 to about 160g since you have 155.6lb of lean body mass on you. Move the grams "saved" from protein over to your carbs. So you can increase your carbs from 250 to 330. Add about 115g carbs to bring your caloric intake to about 3000 calories.

160g Protein
445g Carbs
65g Fats


I have a manual job working 9 hour shifts so i added more kcals.
160g protein seems like hardly any food though??
Im defo going to lower protein and up my carbs. Was thinking about going 230 protein ( 1.5 per lb LBM), 75 fat and the rest carbs.
What you guys think?
At the moment i feel skinny fat lol

ChrisAnthonyNel
03-26-2013, 01:09 PM
I have a manual job working 9 hour shifts so i added more kcals.
160g protein seems like hardly any food though??
Im defo going to lower protein and up my carbs. Was thinking about going 230 protein ( 1.5 per lb LBM), 75 fat and the rest carbs.
What you guys think?
At the moment i feel skinny fat lol

Yeah technically if you have a manual job that's burning calories you can get away with more calories without added fat gain. And 1.5 per lb LBM is fine. I wouldn't say that's optimal, as your calories would be better spent on carbs, but it works. When in a caloric surplus, the body doesn't have too much use for protein over 1 gram per lb LBM, so it tries to turn it into glucose which is kind of a difficult process for the body to go through. But everybody's different, so 1.5 may work for you.

Skinny fat? You're good dude lol. If you're worried about fat gain you could take an extra precaution and lower your fat intake to 50g and replace the saved calories with carbs. This may or may not be beneficial. I am just wary of extra dietary fat intake while in a caloric surplus, but as long as caloric surplus isn't too high, you should be fine.

WonderPug
03-26-2013, 01:14 PM
If you're worried about fat gain you could take an extra precaution and lower your fat intake to 50g and replace the saved calories with carbs.This is, of course, utter nonsense as are lots of other things ^^^this^^^ poster has stated.


OP: Start here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121703981

ChrisAnthonyNel
03-26-2013, 01:22 PM
This is, of course, utter nonsense as are lots of other things ^^^this^^^ poster has stated.



Wow lol. Confrontational people on these forums...

"Back when people were playing with the Bodyopus diet, I remember folks eating literally
7,000-10,000 calories during the first day of their carb-load and still losing bodyfat. I don't
recommend you start with something that radical but you should see how far you can push up
the calories/carbs today without putting any fat back on. One of the keys to avoiding fat gain
during this day is avoiding a high fat intake. It's not as fun, mind you, but it works better."

Lyle McDonald

There are also studies out there that shows that during caloric surplus on refeed days, groups that avoided a high dietary fat intake ended up with less fat gain then groups that had higher dietary fat intakes.

I also did state that it may or may not be beneficial. But if Lyle Mcdonald cautions high fat intake when on a refeed, then is it not sensible to be wary of dietary fat while in a caloric surplus. Obviously the primary contributor to fat gain is too many calories over maintenance, and macro nutritional choices. I'm all about calories in vs calories out. But the amount of dietary fat ingested when in a caloric surplus does have an effect. Minimal effect maybe, but it does.

clumdixon
03-26-2013, 01:50 PM
Wow lol. Confrontational people on these forums...

"Back when people were playing with the Bodyopus diet, I remember folks eating literally
7,000-10,000 calories during the first day of their carb-load and still losing bodyfat. I don't
recommend you start with something that radical but you should see how far you can push up
the calories/carbs today without putting any fat back on. One of the keys to avoiding fat gain
during this day is avoiding a high fat intake. It's not as fun, mind you, but it works better."

Lyle McDonald

There are also studies out there that shows that during caloric surplus on refeed days, groups that avoided a high dietary fat intake ended up with less fat gain then groups that had higher dietary fat intakes.

I also did state that it may or may not be beneficial. But if Lyle Mcdonald cautions high fat intake when on a refeed, then is it not sensible to be wary of dietary fat while in a caloric surplus. Obviously the primary contributor to fat gain is too many calories over maintenance, and macro nutritional choices. I'm all about calories in vs calories out. But the amount of dietary fat ingested when in a caloric surplus does have an effect. Minimal effect maybe, but it does.

I want to add more muscle without gaining fat. Not worried about LOSING fat just yet.
Defo going to add more carbs and lower protein.
Ill probably add some olive oil aswell so i can make nice dressings. Il post reviewed diet and see what you think.
Thanks for replying

necon76
03-26-2013, 05:17 PM
I have a manual job working 9 hour shifts so i added more kcals.
160g protein seems like hardly any food though??
Im defo going to lower protein and up my carbs. Was thinking about going 230 protein ( 1.5 per lb LBM), 75 fat and the rest carbs.
What you guys think?
At the moment i feel skinny fat lol


These numbers are fine but as you know that's more protein than necessary, though it wouldn't be detrimental at all.

Don't go any lower on your fat intake though, as you're only just meeting the minimum requirement. The info posted above about Body Opus is once again completely irrelevant to your circumstances.

necon76
03-26-2013, 05:26 PM
Wow lol. Confrontational people on these forums...

"Back when people were playing with the Bodyopus diet, I remember folks eating literally
7,000-10,000 calories during the first day of their carb-load and still losing bodyfat. I don't
recommend you start with something that radical but you should see how far you can push up
the calories/carbs today without putting any fat back on. One of the keys to avoiding fat gain
during this day is avoiding a high fat intake. It's not as fun, mind you, but it works better."

Lyle McDonald

There are also studies out there that shows that during caloric surplus on refeed days, groups that avoided a high dietary fat intake ended up with less fat gain then groups that had higher dietary fat intakes.

I also did state that it may or may not be beneficial. But if Lyle Mcdonald cautions high fat intake when on a refeed, then is it not sensible to be wary of dietary fat while in a caloric surplus. Obviously the primary contributor to fat gain is too many calories over maintenance, and macro nutritional choices. I'm all about calories in vs calories out. But the amount of dietary fat ingested when in a caloric surplus does have an effect. Minimal effect maybe, but it does.


In post 14 you state that everything depends on context, then you proceed to post something which is of zero relevance to the OP's situation in defence of you making a claim that swapping a calorically equal amount of fat for carbs will prevent fat gain.


If you think we're confrontational, go post that on Lyle's boards & see what happens.

ChrisAnthonyNel
03-26-2013, 08:19 PM
In post 14 you state that everything depends on context, then you proceed to post something which is of zero relevance to the OP's situation in defence of you making a claim that swapping a calorically equal amount of fat for carbs will prevent fat gain.


If you think we're confrontational, go post that on Lyle's boards & see what happens.

The hatred speech coming from you amateur folks is sickening. I made part of my living training and logging thousands of client hours via the knowledge I gained participating on LYLE's boards. If you think the excerpt I posted was just relevant to bodyopus or UD2 than there is no point in continuing this academic discussion, as you are clearly not fit to participate.

And now you're talking about "minimum" intake of fat? Did you grow up on the forum stickies? Minimum dietary fat intake of 65g?? 65g of fat is just meeting some magical minimum intake of fat? Point me to research that stipulates that. And I'll kindly point you to reputable BOOKS that talk about a true minimum intake of fat that is MINOR compared to 65g. Even Lyle's PSMF RFL, a ketogenic diet mind you, stipulates fish oil and trace fats being a "minimum" fat intake. And that's geared towards LOSING fat. Flip the script and you're talking about bulking with a higher minimum fat intake than what is physiologically required via a PSMF?

Unbelievable.. Forums that have "stickies" stipulating "rules" seem to turn amateur fitness enthusiasts into nutritional "scholars" who think their word is LAW and they know all there is to know.

necon76
03-26-2013, 08:45 PM
The hatred speech coming from you amateur folks is sickening. I made part of my living training and logging thousands of client hours via the knowledge I gained participating on LYLE's boards. If you think the excerpt I posted was just relevant to bodyopus or UD2 than there is no point in continuing this academic discussion, as you are clearly not fit to participate.

And now you're talking about "minimum" intake of fat? Did you grow up on the forum stickies? Minimum dietary fat intake of 65g?? 65g of fat is just meeting some magical minimum intake of fat? Point me to research that stipulates that. And I'll kindly point you to reputable BOOKS that talk about a true minimum intake of fat that is MINOR compared to 65g. Even Lyle's PSMF RFL, a ketogenic diet mind you, stipulates fish oil and trace fats being a "minimum" fat intake. And that's geared towards LOSING fat. Flip the script and you're talking about bulking with a higher minimum fat intake than what is physiologically required via a PSMF?

Unbelievable.. Forums that have "stickies" stipulating "rules" seem to turn amateur fitness enthusiasts into nutritional "scholars" who think their word is LAW and they know all there is to know.


Lol, hatred speech. I've been more than civil. You started picking apart my advice, not the other way around, & you've yet to prove me wrong about any of it.

You also seem to fail in your reading comprehension. In the post you quoted I pulled you up on your claim that substituting fat for carbs of equal calorie amounts will prevent fat gain, which is simply not true. And once again you bring up something of no relevance (PSMF) to the OP to try & support your claims. The OP is not obese, nor is he intending to crash diet. Your out of context quotes (such as Lyle's recommended fat intake on one particular day of a diet which the OP is not on) & appeals to authority mean nothing.


The fact that you are a PT is of no significance. Day after day we get questions on this board from people given absolutely false advice by supposedly qualified individuals.

ChrisAnthonyNel
03-26-2013, 09:48 PM
Lol, hatred speech. I've been more than civil. You started picking apart my advice, not the other way around, & you've yet to prove me wrong about any of it.

You also seem to fail in your reading comprehension. In the post you quoted I pulled you up on your claim that substituting fat for carbs of equal calorie amounts will prevent fat gain, which is simply not true. And once again you bring up something of no relevance (PSMF) to the OP to try & support your claims. The OP is not obese, nor is he intending to crash diet. Your out of context quotes (such as Lyle's recommended fat intake on one particular day of a diet which the OP is not on) & appeals to authority mean nothing.


The fact that you are a PT is of no significance. Day after day we get questions on this board from people given absolutely false advice by supposedly qualified individuals.

Replacing unneeded grams of fat with carbs won’t prevent fat gain when eating over maintenance? I think it MIGHT to SOME DEGREE. Which is all I said to Op. I said it MAYBE MIGHT be beneficial. YOU on the other hand are wielding words with absolute meanings like “not true.”

Here is a study showing that when all relevant variables are kept constant and caloric surplus is the same, dieters with a higher fat intake/lower carb intake had less of a leptin response while dieters with a lower fat intake/higher carb intake had a favorable and higher leptin response.

Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2000 Nov;24(11):1413-8.
Effects of short-term carbohydrate or fat overfeeding on energy expenditure and plasma leptin concentrations in healthy female subjects.
RESULTS:
CHO OF increased plasma leptin concentrations by 28%, and 24 h EE by 7%. Basal metabolic rate and the energy expended during physical activity were not affected. FAT OF did not significantly change plasma leptin concentrations or energy expenditure. There was no relationship between changes in leptin concentrations and changes in energy expenditure, suggesting that leptin is not involved in the stimulation of energy metabolism during overfeeding. Interstitial subcutaneous glucose and lactate concentrations were not altered by CHO OF and FAT OF.

CONCLUSIONS:
CHO OF, but not FAT OF, increases energy expenditure and leptin concentration.

Me: Carbs/glycogen create a favorable environmental for muscle growth in a caloric surplus situation whilst fat... not so much. A favorable muscle growth situation prevents more calories from being stored as fat. If your body can better partition calories, you can better avoid fat gain. Hence my suggestion AS AN EXTRA PRECAUTION, and NOT a requirement to lower fats to 50g. Leptin response should be reason enough to favor carbs over fats in a hypo-caloric situation. If you know your ***t you know that normal/adequate leptin responses and regulation is one of the MAJOR players in the body's ability to regulate fat EFFICIENTLY, regardless of calories in vs. calories out (the primary factor in fat oxidation).
Keeping fat low in the midst of a hypo-caloric situation (such as overeating during a caloric surplus) makes common sense. Your body has choices to make when it faces an extra influx of calories - the choices we are concerned about are: rebuild/build muscular tissue or store extra calories as fat. Carbs, and thus, glycogen make this decision easy - build muscle tissue. Dietary fat, aside from minor levels of inter-muscular triglycerides, will be used by the body, PREFERENTIALLY, as an energy storage source. It's not as simple as "Hey man as long as your not eating too much over maintenance you can have any ol' carb/fat macro combination you want."

Here's another excerpt backing up this ^ from Lyle McDonald:

"So what happens after nutrients get through the stomach and intestines and into the body? Broadly speaking, there are two primary fates for nutrients at this point which are oxidation or storage....Storage should be fairly clear and the nutrients (with the exception of alcohol) can be ‘stored’ in the body for later use. Carbohydrates can be stored as liver or muscle glycogen, under rare circumstances they are converted to and stored as fat. Dietary fat is stored either in fat cells or can be stored within muscle as intra-muscular triglyceride (IMTG)." (From Nutrient Intake, Nutrient Storage and Nutrient Oxidation - bodyrecomposition dot com)

Here's it is put simply:

"...I’m going to summarize a few points from it (as well as from the Q&A): Carbs are rarely converted to fat and stored as such When you eat more carbs you burn more carbs and less fat; eat less carbs and you burn less carbs and more fat. Protein is basically never going to be converted to fat and stored as such. When you eat more protein, you burn more protein (and by extension, less carbs and less fat); eat less protein and you burn less protein (and by extension, more carbs and more fat) Ingested dietary fat is primarily stored, eating more of it doesn’t impact on fat oxidation to a significant degree. Let’s work through this backwards. When you eat dietary fat, it’s primary fate is storage as its intake has very little impact on fat oxidation (and don’t ask me a bunch of questions about “But people say you have to eat fat to burn fat?” in the comments. That idea is fundamentally wrong but would take an entire article to address). It also doesn’t impact greatly on the oxidation of the protein or carbohydrates." - Lyle McDonald

Me: Why do you think Martin Berkhan over at leangains and Alan Aragon and most reputable folks advice such a rudimentary rule of thumb?: When building muscle eat over maintenance, carbs high and fats low. When cutting fat: eat under maintenance, carbs low, fats high.

I know some of you are thinking, "well that may be true, but isn't there a "minimum" fat intake?"
Here's Lyle's opinion on that:

"'Beyond your EFAs (~1.5g combined EPA/DHA if I'm not mistaken) there's no real physiological need for fats.' An absolute bare minimum would be a combined intake of EPA/DHA of 500mg per day. A standard 1 gram fish oil capsule typically contains 180 mg EPA and 120 mg DHA (300 mg of total fish oil) so that would be only 2 pills per day. There is evidence that more may be beneficial for a variety of goals but, again, I’ll save that discussion for a later article." (A primer on Dietary Fats - Part 2: Body Recomposition Dot Com." - Lyle McDonald

Me: Your statement of 65g of fat barely hitting "minimum" obviously comes from you sticky forum tuition. 65g of fat is more like an optimal fat intake, certainly not minimal and not optimal in regards to nutrient partitioning when carbs is the primary contribute to leptin/insulin responses that factor into muscle growth and fat storage.

clumdixon
03-27-2013, 12:07 AM
Dont argue lads, everyone has good advice... Nothing is right or wrong.
Im just trying to write out a new meal plan, loving that i get loads more carbs! What changes would you make to the original plan i posted? Bear in mind that i eat on breaks at work.

necon76
03-27-2013, 12:26 AM
Dont argue lads, everyone has good advice... Nothing is right or wrong.
Im just trying to write out a new meal plan, loving that i get loads more carbs! What changes would you make to the original plan i posted? Bear in mind that i eat on breaks at work.


Just go by the plan you posted in post 21. Those numbers were solid. Fill them with foods of your preference.

You can eat as frequently or infrequently as you please. Some people do great on 2 meals a day & training fasted, others like multiple smaller meals & training fed. Frequency of meals won't affect your body composition so just go with however you feel best.




Inb4 someone jumps up my ass yet again......

clumdixon
03-27-2013, 03:29 AM
Just go by the plan you posted in post 21. Those numbers were solid. Fill them with foods of your preference.

You can eat as frequently or infrequently as you please. Some people do great on 2 meals a day & training fasted, others like multiple smaller meals & training fed. Frequency of meals won't affect your body composition so just go with however you feel best.




Inb4 someone jumps up my ass yet again......

I like a nice big breakfast and dinner. Going to have a big hit of carbs in my postworkout shake and then split the rest of macros throughout the day.
See how that goes for a few weeks.

Anyone use dextrose/ waxy maize postworkout?

necon76
03-27-2013, 04:02 AM
Anyone use dextrose/ waxy maize postworkout?


Totally unnecessary, though not detrimental. Would much prefer to use real, tasty food in place of powdered carbs myself. Waxy maize is glorified & highly overpriced sugar. But if you do decide to go this route, use straight up dex that you can buy from a supermarket or home brew store.

clumdixon
03-27-2013, 10:18 AM
Totally unnecessary, though not detrimental. Would much prefer to use real, tasty food in place of powdered carbs myself. Waxy maize is glorified & highly overpriced sugar. But if you do decide to go this route, use straight up dex that you can buy from a supermarket or home brew store.


What foods would you say to use? Bananas? Rice cakes?

AlwaysTryin
03-27-2013, 12:51 PM
What foods would you say to use? Bananas? Rice cakes?

Foods you like the taste of with carbs