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View Full Version : I'm confused about determinism and how it relates to christianity



Jaccogo
02-11-2013, 07:53 PM
It seems that at the beginning, there must have been determinism. Now it is true that it is stated that Eve had the free will to decide whether or not to eat the apple (or whatever the fruit was), however as we know that doesn't necessitate that there isn't universal determinism.

Seems to me that Adam and Eve had to reproduce (there were no other options, because God had to have life continue) and since there are no other possibilities, there is determinism.

I would then argue that this is extended to a lot of God's actions. He is all seeing and all knowing, so he knows everything that happens and (Even though I don't believe this is possible to be true) everything that will happen. Now obviously this implies Determinism so my question to christians is this:

Doesn't it somewhat undermine your religion that the we live in a Deterministic World?

ymer
02-11-2013, 08:47 PM
OP, do you think the world would be better without christians? what's so bad about them that they are the new blacks?

Jaccogo
02-12-2013, 05:46 PM
OP, do you think the world would be better without christians? what's so bad about them that they are the new blacks?
no hate, just curious how a christian might respond

lasher
02-12-2013, 05:57 PM
Here's how the calvinists deal with it. Basically Compatibilism.

http://www.noble-minded.org/calvinism.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism

Arminians don't care, because they deny hard determinism.


Molinists go the middle knowledge rout.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molinism
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/misconceptions-about-middle-knowledge
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/molinism

lasher
02-12-2013, 06:05 PM
How many Calvinists does it take to change a light bulb?
None. God has predestined when the lights will be on, and every Calvinist knows only God can change a lightbulb anyway.


How many Arminians?
Only one, but first the bulb must want to be changed.

How many Dispensationalists?
Two - one to change the bulb and one to keep the promises to the old bulb.

How many Pentecostals?
Ten. One to change the bulb and nine to pray against the spirit of darkness

How many Lutherans?
17 - 5 to form a commitee to find and nominate 9 people to a committee which shall then discuss the issues of light bulb changing, from which that commitee shall appoint three other people to carry out the final resolution of the second committee - which is that one person shall supervise while one changes the bulb and one will follow up in one month's time to investigate the performance of the bulb.

How many Modern Evangelicals?
It doesn't matter as long as we love each other.

anonymousceleb
02-12-2013, 07:32 PM
How many Lutherans?
17 - 5 to form a commitee to find and nominate 9 people to a committee which shall then discuss the issues of light bulb changing, from which that commitee shall appoint three other people to carry out the final resolution of the second committee - which is that one person shall supervise while one changes the bulb and one will follow up in one month's time to investigate the performance of the bulb.


Funny stuff. Not only am I a Lutheran, I'm also on such a committee.

Although, my old pastor's answer to that question was more like the Arminian one. "Just one, but the bulb has to really want to change."

lasher
02-12-2013, 07:45 PM
Not only am I a Lutheran, I'm also on such a committee.

Kierkegaard does not approve!