PDA

View Full Version : Olajuwon > Shaq, anyone who says otherwise is just a dumb kunt (srs)



JustBulk
02-09-2013, 03:10 AM
First and foremost, Olajuwon led a team to a title without any other HOF-ers. Something Shaq, or rather, almost no one else has done. And the Drexler he had in 1995 was one who was already run-down and worn out.

Olajuwon was much much better than Shaq defensively. Shaq never made a single Defensive First-Team. Hakeem not only won the block leader 3x (again, something Shaq has never done), he also ranks 8th in steals-very impressive for a center. Olajuwon is the only player in NBA history to record more than 200 blocks and 200 steals in the same season. Needless to say, Olajuwon has 2 DPOYs while Shaq has none.

Olajuwon is at least on par with Shaq offensively. He was able to pass the ball much better, the Dream Shake was un-guardable (even prime David Robinson + Rodman couldn't do jack), he had much longer range than Shaq had and wasn't a liability at the free throw line. Just because he didn't power his way like Shaq did doesn't mean Olajuwon wasn't dominant.

Lol @ Shaq being so dominant. Yes, he was, but you kunts overrated him far too much. Remember, it was Kobe Bryant who led the Lakers past the Blazers in Game 7 with 25 points, 11 rebounds, seven assists and four blocked shots while Shaq was ineffectual, attempting only 9 shots, ending with 18 points and 9 rebounds.

Shaq put up unreal Finals numbers, but he played in an era of weak centers. And he had Kobe Bryant. That made things a lot easier for Shaq. Shaq made things easier for Kobe, but Kobe also made things easier for Shaq as well. They were 1a and 1b; only deluded Kobe haters will fail to see that. The only arguable season where Kobe is #2 would be 2000. Even then, Kobe was very solid and would easily be the #1 on any other team.

Here's what others have to say about Olajuwon and Shaq:

GOAT MJ:

"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him."

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfeatures/show/id/One-on-One-with-Michael-Jordan_6189

Tex Winter, the true inventor of the Triangle Offense, GOAT Head Coach Phil Jackson's right hand man (after the Lakers lost to the Pistons in the 2004 Finals):

"Shaq defeated himself against Detroit. He played way too passively. He had one big game ... He's always interested in being a scorer, but he hasn't had nearly enough concentration on defense and rebounding."

(Lazenby & Roland, 2006. The Show: The Inside Story of the Spectacular Los Angeles Lakers in the Words of Those Who Lived It. New York City: McGraw-Hill Professional. ISBN 978-0-07-143034-0)

And oh, Olajuwon has recorded a quadruple-double before. If Shaq simply ****s on everyone else, why couldn't he record one, considering he's a center and a double-double is fairly easy to achieve?

Lol at Shaq being stronger. Olajuwon is strong as fuark as well. BRB, playing while fasting during the months of Ramadan. Mental strength of Olajuwon >>>>> Shaq's.

1800_Cool_Guy
02-09-2013, 03:27 AM
Olajuwon is clearly the most skilled big man of the two but you ask anyone in the NBA and they ake Shaq over Olajuwon to build a team around. Shaq was just straight up dominant and didnt fuk around in the paint. Just ask Brad Miller or Yao Ming.

JustBulk
02-09-2013, 03:37 AM
Olajuwon is clearly the most skilled big man of the two but you ask anyone in the NBA and they ake Shaq over Olajuwon to build a team around. Shaq was just straight up dominant and didnt fuk around in the paint. Just ask Brad Miller or Yao Ming.

Sure, take someone who reports to training camp totally out of shape as opposed to someone with discipline and dedication.

Olajuwon was a franchise player. Shaq never was. If Shaq was so great and overwhelming, the Lakers would had acceded to his money demands. Look at Shaq. He has departed from every single team with relations soured.

rocketfish11
02-09-2013, 04:01 AM
Olajuwon is clearly the most skilled big man of the two but you ask anyone in the NBA and they ake Shaq over Olajuwon to build a team around. Shaq was just straight up dominant and didnt fuk around in the paint. Just ask Brad Miller or Yao Ming.

What the hell are you even talking about?

"ask anyone in the NBA".... lol how about just the GOAT? OP even posted Jordan's quote.

Please go.

B0B4Life
02-09-2013, 09:34 AM
The differene between Hakeem and Shaq is Shaq knew how to pass the ball and make his teammates better from day 1, it took Hakeem a very long time to understand how to make his teammates better

jkeithc82
02-09-2013, 09:40 AM
The differene between Hakeem and Shaq is Shaq knew how to pass the ball and make his teammates better from day 1, it took Hakeem a very long time to understand how to make his teammates better

LOL what?

Shortstop36
02-09-2013, 09:42 AM
Hakeem was more skilled.
Shaq was more physically dominate.

/thread

waisoserious
02-09-2013, 09:47 AM
drexler isnt a HOF'er?

IsoMaxx
02-09-2013, 09:48 AM
As someone who watched both players through the 90's, there was a 2-3 year span where Hakeem was the best player in the league, nobody can argue that. Over their entire career though? It's no question, Shaq was better. A better argument would be, was Hakeem better than David Robinson?

LiftHeavy85
02-09-2013, 09:48 AM
MJ went full retard

Using misc logic

How many rings does shaq have vs hakeem? /thread

dRose37
02-09-2013, 09:59 AM
olajuwon was a more skilled center, but shaq was just simply more dominant.

jkeithc82
02-09-2013, 10:14 AM
olajuwon was a more skilled center, but shaq was just simply more dominant.

Shaq could be taken out of the game. Conversely you wanted the ball in Hakeem's hands during the final minutes of the game.

Shaq routinely was overweight, out of shape and injured.

Hakeem worked during the off-season and added new skills to his game every year. Shaq never developed anything outside of a half-ass baby hook.

Shaq always had a premier #2 guard to play with. Anfernee Hardaway, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade. Hakeem had aging Clyde Drexler for half a season for his second title.

Hakeem was superior defensively. I don't think this is even a question.

Hakeem wins.

Daewoo_Lanos
02-09-2013, 10:16 AM
OP i appreciate the giant book of a post, but you could've simply written 'see title /thread'

hakeem at his peak was the best center of all time

Daewoo_Lanos
02-09-2013, 10:17 AM
A better argument would be, was Hakeem better than David Robinson?

brah if you saw hakeem and shaq through the 90s then you know even thinking about this argument reaches a level well beyond full retard.

Powerlifter94
02-09-2013, 10:31 AM
Hakeem was more skilled.
Shaq was more physically dominate.

/thread

This.

JustBulk
02-09-2013, 10:35 AM
The differene between Hakeem and Shaq is Shaq knew how to pass the ball and make his teammates better from day 1, it took Hakeem a very long time to understand how to make his teammates better

LOL wtf.


drexler isnt a HOF'er?

Drexler was on the '94 team?


As someone who watched both players through the 90's, there was a 2-3 year span where Hakeem was the best player in the league, nobody can argue that. Over their entire career though? It's no question, Shaq was better. A better argument would be, was Hakeem better than David Robinson?

Er. Olajuwon took a **** all over David Robinson (both were in their prime) in the Western Finals; note Robinson had Rodman. And then went on to **** all over Ewing.


olajuwon was a more skilled center, but shaq was just simply more dominant.

That's your opinion.

Where are the facts?

HTownOlajuwon
02-09-2013, 10:36 AM
peak Hakeem > peak Shaq
Career Shaq > Career Hakeem


It's as simple as that.

roadtrippin
02-09-2013, 10:40 AM
The differene between Hakeem and Shaq is Shaq knew how to pass the ball and make his teammates better from day 1, it took Hakeem a very long time to understand how to make his teammates bettershame on you

JustBulk
02-09-2013, 10:42 AM
peak Hakeem > peak Shaq
Career Shaq > Career Hakeem
It's as simple as that.

Tell me what has Shaq achieved over his career that shames Hakeem?

Please don't point out FMVPs. The Pacers, 76ers and Nets were all easier than the Western semi opponents the Lakers had to face.

StarksFX
02-09-2013, 10:53 AM
peak Hakeem > peak Shaq
Career Shaq > Career Hakeem


It's as simple as that.

Have you even watched Hakeem play in his prime srs. Age 19.
2000 and 2001 Shaq were better than any version of Hakeem. He was the flatout better player in their peaks and primes, the better scorer and offensive player by a big margin. Effectiveness > flash. Hakeem was the slightly better rebounder Shaq was the better passer and Hakeems biggest edge is defense and prime Shaq was a strong defender in his own right. Shaq is the better playoff and finals performer as well.

Daewoo_Lanos
02-09-2013, 10:55 AM
i wish some ppl ITT saw hakeem between 91 and 95. mother of fkn god. his play was often more impressive than jordan.

HTownOlajuwon
02-09-2013, 11:01 AM
Tell me what has Shaq achieved over his career that shames Hakeem?

Please don't point out FMVPs. The Pacers, 76ers and Nets were all easier than the Western semi opponents the Lakers had to face.
his longevity. Shaq was a dominant force for more seasons than Hakeem was. Shaq's longevity is really underrated.

CockeyJamel
02-09-2013, 11:09 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcae_NBtkb4

JustBulk
02-09-2013, 11:13 AM
his longevity. Shaq was a dominant force for more seasons than Hakeem was. Shaq's longevity is really underrated.

Shaq was always surrounded by premier players, Hakeem played with scrubs. This may give the impression that Shaq was on top for a longer period of time.

Also, Shaq spent the latter part of his career being shipped around. I don't think that exactly suggests quality.

MrVolquez
02-09-2013, 11:18 AM
Shaq was always surrounded by premier players, Hakeem played with scrubs. This may give the impression that Shaq was on top for a longer period of time.

Also, Shaq spent the last one third of his career being shipped around. I don't think that exactly suggests quality.

This is why we cant have nice things, People always have to compare.
Two Different kinds of centers, one finnesse, one strength.
But For op to call someone a dumb kunt for believe Shaq is the Goat center is flat out lame

TallLanky
02-09-2013, 11:18 AM
Er. Olajuwon took a **** all over David Robinson (both were in their prime) in the Western Finals; note Robinson had Rodman. And then went on to **** all over Ewing

Grew up in Houston & remember the 93 & 94 seasons. Hakeem was a huge part, but you had Sam Cassell, Robert Horry, Otis Thorpe, Kenny Smith, Matt Bullard. It was a solid, solid team.

jkeithc82
02-09-2013, 11:22 AM
his longevity. Shaq was a dominant force for more seasons than Hakeem was. Shaq's longevity is really underrated.

LOL he was a fat, immobile lard who out-muscled other players for dunks. His longevity would be greater appreciated if he actually continued raising his game during those years. Shaq hung on way too long. Yes those years in Phoenix, Cleveland and Boston sure were impressive.

jkeithc82
02-09-2013, 11:23 AM
Grew up in Houston & remember the 93 & 94 seasons. Hakeem was a huge part, but you had Sam Cassell, Robert Horry, Otis Thorpe, Kenny Smith, Matt Bullard. It was a solid, solid team.

Yes those were solid contributors. None of them are close to HoF'ers though. Hell none were ever at any point in their careers considered top 5 at their position.

HTownOlajuwon
02-09-2013, 11:25 AM
LOL he was a fat, immobile lard who out-muscled other players for dunks. His longevity would be greater appreciated if he actually continued raising his game during those years. Shaq hung on way too long. Yes those years in Phoenix, Cleveland and Boston sure were impressive.
His prime lasted from 2nd/3rd year in Orlando o his 1st year in Miami 94-05 . Pretty good.

jkeithc82
02-09-2013, 11:32 AM
His prime lasted from 2nd/3rd year in Orlando o his 1st year in Miami 94-05 . Pretty good.

His prime started from the time he hit the league until he played himself out of shape and dealt with injuries. It's easy to be in your prime when your game consists of dunks and short range shots. He was naturally gifted with size and strength and he used that very effectively. Too bad bad he didn't have more of a drive to keep himself in shape and further develop his game. He was a liability at the end of the game, and opposing coaches knew this. You couldn't do this to Hakeem, he'd beat you. Shaq could beat you in one way and that could be limited. Hakeem could beat you in many different ways and often could not be stopped. Shaq was great, Hakeem was greater. :cool:

ElMariachi
02-09-2013, 11:45 AM
http://imgur.com/qu4NY14.gif

sdballer5588
02-09-2013, 12:06 PM
Shaq could be taken out of the game. Conversely you wanted the ball in Hakeem's hands during the final minutes of the game.

Shaq routinely was overweight, out of shape and injured.

Hakeem worked during the off-season and added new skills to his game every year. Shaq never developed anything outside of a half-ass baby hook.

Shaq always had a premier #2 guard to play with. Anfernee Hardaway, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade. Hakeem had aging Clyde Drexler for half a season for his second title.

Hakeem was superior defensively. I don't think this is even a question.

Hakeem wins.

Shaq did not need an offensive arsenal, who the hell could stop him
Shaq did not need an elite 2 guard, just because he GOT one doesn't mean it was REQUIRED
Shaq did not need MJ to retire to finally win

And how can you say Hakeem is hands down better at defending? Who was dropping huge numbers on Shaq? Just being 7 foot 2 makes you a pretty OKAY defender.

And saying Hakeem was the better rebounder? HOW. Hakeems playoff boards were at 11 and 10 when he won. Shaq routinely averaged 15-16 boards in his chips.


And I fkn lol'ed at the "out of shape" one. What does that have to do with him being at his peak? Peak Shaq > everyone ever in the NBA.

What an idiot. Hopp off the Dreams nuts. I've definitely seen you post like 5 times about how much you think Hakeem is the greatest center. Homer gonna homer.



Also I fkn lost it at saying Hakeem was stronger.


7 0 255 lbs vs 7 2 325 lbs

LOLWAT

jkeithc82
02-09-2013, 12:11 PM
What an idiot.

Do you know who I am?

sdballer5588
02-09-2013, 12:26 PM
Do you know who I am?

http://i.imgur.com/dUSwCZQ.jpg

ImJJames
02-09-2013, 01:16 PM
i agree op

SystemTrend
02-09-2013, 01:24 PM
op shut your cum soaked dik sucking lips

lee4
02-09-2013, 02:54 PM
Shaq did not need an offensive arsenal, who the hell could stop him
Shaq did not need an elite 2 guard, just because he GOT one doesn't mean it was REQUIRED he never won without one, so how can you make this claim? heck, even the first time shaq made the finals, he had penny
Shaq did not need MJ to retire to finally win really? name one ring shaq got before jordan retired? and when jordan did retire, who beat shaq for that ring???

And how can you say Hakeem is hands down better at defending? Who was dropping huge numbers on Shaq? Just being 7 foot 2 makes you a pretty OKAY defender.one, hakeem's all-D honors in a tougher center league ends this argument. two, who did shaq have to compete against? as one poster stated in humiliating fashion already..."brad miller and yao ming"...seriously? try owning dikembe, ewing, robinson, and shaq...EVERYTIME when it counted

And saying Hakeem was the better rebounder? HOW. Hakeems playoff boards were at 11 and 10 when he won. Shaq routinely averaged 15-16 boards in his chips. while this seems like a useless point to argue, there is at least one rebound shaq didn't get that mattered in my quote below...regardless of averages. additionally, you're flat out wrong. shaq averaged 15 rebounds per game TWICE in his 20 year career and he NEVER averaged 16. in fact, hakeem is the ONLY player of these two to average 16 rpg in the playoffs at all, with 16.8 in '88



answers in bold above^^^


also, generally, here's a post i made before in another thread...

all you shaq defenders, please read the thread first before you post...



1) yes, shaq got embarrassed in '95. you know who thinks that SHAQ DOES (see his own commentary on page three OF THIS THREAD).
rEQH5QRH60I



2) stop talking all about offense as making shaq amazing. yes, he was huge and athletic for his size, but his offense was not BETTER...
compare shaq and hakeem's BEST years, it was a TWO POINT scoring difference per game (29v27). i'd call that a push between hakeem and shaq's offensive "production".

-now, if you insist that TWO points makes shaq win, consider shaq averaged TWICE as many FTA's per game to do it, AND shaq couldn't play in cruch time MOSTLY due to fouling out all the time or his COMPLETE LIABILITY on offensive end of game free throws.



hakeem, however, not only played in fourth quarters, he would win them...

this is against the magic...in the finals...but WHERE is shaq??? no box out? no defense??
j1tf28qahCo

which brings me to my final point. DEFENSE! where was shaq in that last highlight??? failing his team, that's where.





3) HAKEEM WON CHAMPIONSHIPS WITH HIS DEFENSE. unlike "the most absent" center of all time in the last clip, hakeem can run down quick guards ALONE ON THE PERIMETER and still beat them.

CzUv5_YFhPI

shaq couldn't guard a pick and roll...EVER.


SO, even GRANTING a PUSH on offense for shaq's prime two points on 13 FTA per game, and fourth quarter benchriding compared to hakeem's fourth quarter clutch... hakeem played DEFENSE better than anyone.

shaq: 3x 2nd Team All-Defense (and GTFO, shaq has NEVER averaged 4 blocks per game!)
hakeem: 4x 2nd Team All-D, 5X FIRST TEAM DEFENSE! (9x All D total) 2x DPOY! 4x League Shot Block Leader, Consistently Top Ten in Steals.


If Shaq is better than Hakeem, it's news to him...

http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/funny-gifs-shaqs-magic.gif
from here...
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=147238003&page=5

jkeithc82
02-09-2013, 02:58 PM
http://i.imgur.com/dUSwCZQ.jpg

I think we've gotten off on the wrong foot friend.

sdballer5588
02-09-2013, 02:58 PM
answers in bold above^^^


also, generally, here's a post i made before in another thread...

from here...
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=147238003&page=5

"He never averaged 16" Bro, Hakeem averaged 10 and 11 in his ring years.

Shaq averaged 15.4 15.4 and 12.6

Shut up.

Shaq getting "embarrassed" IN HIS SECOND YEAR in the NBA finals.... yeah I'm sure his heart is just broken.



And are you using MJ being in the league as a crutch for HAKEEM? What the fk? Hakeem only ever made the finals TWICE(oops 3 times, forgot his 2nd year) and it was when there was no Jordan to beat him. Shaq had to play the Bulls every single year (if he was going to go to the ECF when Jordan was in the league)

lee4
02-09-2013, 03:03 PM
"He never averaged 16" Bro, Hakeem averaged 10 and 11 in his ring years.

Shaq averaged 15.4 15.4 and 12.6

Shut up.

Shaq getting "embarrassed" IN HIS SECOND YEAR in the NBA finals.... yeah I'm sure his heart is just broken.

YOUR CLAIM was that shaq "ROUTINELY" averaged 15/16 rpg in his 'chip years... THANK YOU for pointing out you're wrong, as he NEVER averaged 16. my addressing hakeem's 16.8 is because you were SO WRONG i had to find ANY year these two players averaged YOUR CLAIMED AMOUNT ever. however, way to delete context...lol.

so you avoid 99.9% of my post to TRY and quickly claim victory over a fact you STILL end up wrong about. okay, sir, defend shaq all you want... because shaq doesn't even agree with you.

sdballer5588
02-09-2013, 03:09 PM
YOUR CLAIM was that shaq "ROUTINELY" averaged 15/16 rpg in his 'chip years... THANK YOU for pointing out you're wrong, as he NEVER averaged 16. my addressing hakeem's 16.8 is because you were SO WRONG i had to find ANY year these two players averaged YOUR CLAIMED AMOUNT ever. however, way to delete context...lol.

so you avoid 99.9% of my post to TRY and quickly claim victory over a fact you STILL end up wrong about. okay, sir, defend shaq all you want... because shaq doesn't even agree with you.

15-16 mean between 15 and 16. He averaged 15.4 2 years. How the hell is that wrong lol.


And wtf is with laker fans hating on shaq? Dude gift wrapped you 3 titles. You pathetically giving me hakeems 4 game sample size of 16.8 is retarded.

sdballer5588
02-09-2013, 03:12 PM
And lol @ Shaq admitting anything. Shaq said he was "too nice" because he "respected hakeem too much".

Prime shaq would take a sht on Hakeem.

Shaq weighed like 65 pounds heavier. How the hell are you going to cover that, block his dunk? lol how bout no. Btw you really lend yourself to idiocy when you say hakeem "schooled" shaq in any way. He was better statistically, and BARELY better. That's prime Hakeem vs 2nd year shaq and he BARELY was better.

Ignoring that the TEAMS weren't even comparable.


Your "offense" argument is also flawed to hell. Kobe Bryant is a more "skilled" offensive player than Lebron James. Lebron James is FAR BETTER on the offensive end than Kobe is, becuase he doesn't NEED to hit a 21 foot fadeaway worth the same amount of points as a dunk. Points are points. Shaq would back him down turn around and bury the hammer in his jaw. That's worth 2 points. Same as Hakeems dream shake.

lee4
02-09-2013, 03:21 PM
15-16 mean between 15 and 16. He averaged 15.4 2 years. How the hell is that wrong lol.


And wtf is with laker fans hating on shaq? Dude gift wrapped you 3 titles. You pathetically giving me hakeems 4 game sample size of 16.8 is retarded.

well there's your mistake. i'm completely unbiased between these two, as i'm a suns fan.

also 15-16 infers averages between that range...yet he never even averaged 15.9 by ROUNDING UP. you created an inferred range that shaq never performed within 50% of.

this means that it is an equivalent proportion as claiming that hakeem AVERAGED between 1-50 PPG over his entire playoff career.


now, this is a trivial small point you continue to focus on. why not address the majority of my points, rather than focus on your own false/disingenuous claim?

1) hakeem needed jordan to retire to get a ring, you claimed. however, HOW MANY rings did shaq get prior to jordan retiring?

2) you praised shaq's offense...yet at his BEST he averaged 2 POINTS more per game than hakeem. how do you compare a two point offensive advantage to the defensive DOMINANCE of hakeem (5x 1st Team D vs. Zero for shaq)


i'm not saying shaq isn't a top player, but his sheer physical presence does not compensate for the most complete all around game hakeem possessed.

lee4
02-09-2013, 03:50 PM
And lol @ Shaq admitting anything. Shaq said he was "too nice" because he "respected hakeem too much".shaq said he was "EMBARRASSED" by hakeem, his own words, not mine.

Prime shaq would take a sht on Hakeem.well, i'm glad you think so. but as history stands, he had a chance to prove that...and lost. you can talk about "imaginary match-ups" all you like, in reality it happened once, and THIRD year shaq lost.

Shaq weighed like 65 pounds heavier. How the hell are you going to cover that, block his dunk? lol how bout no. Btw you really lend yourself to idiocy when you say hakeem "schooled" shaq in any way. He was better statistically, and BARELY better. That's prime Hakeem vs 2nd year shaq and he BARELY was better.that must be why shaq got swept, because he was really THAT close.

Ignoring that the TEAMS weren't even comparable.you're right. orlando had all-stars penny hardaway, horace grant, along with starting 40% 3pt shooters dennis scott and nick anderson. houston had clyde (who JOINED an already champ roster) and one other all-star in sam cassell, who made the AS Team ONCE in 2004 TEN YEARS LATER!!! and ONE "significant" 40% 3pt shooter in k.smith that year.


Your "offense" argument is also flawed to hell. Kobe Bryant is a more "skilled" offensive player than Lebron James. Lebron James is FAR BETTER on the offensive end than Kobe is, becuase he doesn't NEED to hit a 21 foot fadeaway worth the same amount of points as a dunk. Points are points. Shaq would back him down turn around and bury the hammer in his jaw. That's worth 2 points. Same as Hakeems dream shake. again, you're right...points are points. shaq averaged TWO MORE in PRIME averages.

now, take those two points and tell me how THOSE TWO POINTS somehow beat hakeems better career...
rebounding numbers
blocks
steals
FT%
and ALL-D awards?

keep your 2-points... i'll take the complete package on both ends.

in bold...

in the end, shaq's greatest moments came against NOBODYS, hakeem owned everyone except jordan.

hakeem vs. MVP david robinson...winner? hakeem, and it was ugly.

hakeem vs. ewing...winner? hakeem, and his game seven clutch plays are historic.

hakeem vs. shaq...winner? hakeem, in a sweep. but you're right...shaq had GREAT stats, that were below his regular season averages.

but feel free to post shaq's highlight vids against chris dudley and brad miller...L-freaking-O-L!

lee4
02-09-2013, 04:06 PM
n_-9Z2LF4fI

rocketfish11
02-09-2013, 04:26 PM
There's two people in this thread.

Those that recognise true skill and greatness.

And those that think dunking means you're the greatest.

PureCardio
02-09-2013, 04:30 PM
I take Olajuwon over Shaq, but you can't argue with 29 & 14 over three playoff seasons. Dream never put anything that crazy together.

PureCardio
02-09-2013, 04:35 PM
There's two people in this thread.

Those that recognise true skill and greatness.

And those that think dunking means you're the greatest.

You're forgetting about effectiveness. It doesn't take away from Shaq's dominance that he was 7'2 350. There are many guys that will never walk onto an NBA court that are more skilled than NBA players, but the fact is, they don't have the body for it. Shaq was a tank and he took full advantage of it, if no other centers are built like that and can stay healthy for a long, long career like Shaq, you can't blame him for using what he was given.

Effectiveness>>>>>>>skill.

Amaso
02-09-2013, 04:36 PM
One of the biggest misconceptions is that Hakeem's prime was short lived. Dude was as good coming out of college as he was in his title years. It's a shame he had zero talent around him in the late 80s and early 90s otherwise he would've probably taken a championship from the Pistons or Bulls.

bezarker
02-09-2013, 04:40 PM
Never underestimate the heart of a champion...

trankwil
02-09-2013, 04:43 PM
hey OP, how's my ass taste?

Bezzz
02-09-2013, 04:53 PM
I like the discussion value in the topic but to say were dumb kunts for an opinion? lmao i was like lmao

lee4
02-09-2013, 05:12 PM
Effectiveness>>>>>>>skill.

yup. now please lay out an argument demonstrating shaq was MORE effective when his size only got him 2 more points (on twice as many FTA's) and practically LESS EVERYTHING ELSE.

John_Connor
02-09-2013, 05:24 PM
Shaq>hakeem

Drexler was still good on the rockets and is a future hofer,not to mention Robert Horry etc.

PatrickBateman1
02-09-2013, 05:27 PM
Hakeem was more versatile no doubt, but Shaq's dominance... absolutely untouchable. Both could carry a team, but in different ways. Shaq's dominance down low absolutely eliminated any sort of big-man play the opponent had. Hakeem kind of used more of a selfish attitude (and I'm not saying that in a bad way, he made it work).

However, if I'm a GM, I'm taking Shaq and then getting a 2 guard to compliment him. That combo is absolutely unstoppable.

PatrickBateman1
02-09-2013, 05:29 PM
yup. now please lay out an argument demonstrating shaq was MORE effective when his size only got him 2 more points (on twice as many FTA's) and practically LESS EVERYTHING ELSE.

No way Kobe/Hakeem would have worked as well as Kobe/Shaq did. The combination was just absolutely brutal.

PatrickBateman1
02-09-2013, 05:30 PM
There's two people in this thread.

Those that recognise true skill and greatness.

And those that think dunking means you're the greatest.

/facepalm




Why do I even click on this section?

lee4
02-09-2013, 05:43 PM
No way Kobe/Hakeem would have worked as well as Kobe/Shaq did. The combination was just absolutely brutal.

first, how does this address my post at all?

second, your post skips any analysis and presumes a superior tandem...how? other than Hakeem was retiring by the time kobe came around, what factor makes a kobe/shaq tandem superior? hakeem was less demanding of the ball, hakeem is a better team and individual defender, hakeem has just as much court vision, hakeem is a better fit within a triangle system due to his ability to play fronting opposing players, hakeem was more mobile in the lane (all of which benefit kobe more)...in short, i see no way to support that claim.


EDIT: \/ \/ \/...watched careers of both, olajuwon starting in 1988. had ralph sampson been healthy, the 80's would have looked much different.

iwanagetbig
02-09-2013, 05:45 PM
I'm on mobile so I can't see, but has anyone here seen both of their careers? As in who here has been watching basketball since 1984? Olajuwons rookie season, not saying I have. But you don't fckin compare 2 people without seein one or the other play, highlights do not equal someone's career. Solely stats don't equal someone's career.

sdballer5588
02-09-2013, 06:07 PM
If you're going to use regular seasons tats all day then sure, Hakeem > Shaq. But I was talking peak vs peak, playoff vs playoff, it's not even really close.

No one was better than prime shaq. NO ONE.

jkeithc82
02-09-2013, 06:24 PM
No one was better than prime shaq. NO ONE.

Uh Yinka Dare?

lee4
02-09-2013, 06:25 PM
If you're going to use regular seasons tats all day then sure, Hakeem > Shaq. But I was talking peak vs peak, playoff vs playoff, it's not even really close.

No one was better than prime shaq. NO ONE.

okay...higher stat in bold
career playoff averages...
shaq - 24.3 p/ 11.6 r/ 2.7 a/ 2.1 blocks/ .5 steals/ 50% FT
hakeem - 25.9 p/ 11.2r/ 3.2 a/ 3.3 blocks/ 1.7 steals/ 71.9% FT

career playoffs, i'm taking the dream.

best single postseason averages...
shaq - 30.7 p/ 15.4 r/ 3.1 a/ 2.4 blocks/ .6 steals/ 46% FT
hakeem - 37.5 p/ 16.8 r/ 1.8 a/ 2.8 blocks/ 2.3 steals/ 88% FT

...still dream'in

best postseason averages in a ring year...
shaq - 30.7 p/ 15.4 r/ 3.1 a/ 2.4 blocks/ .6 steals/ 46% FT
hakeem - 28.9 p/ 11 r/ 4.3 a/ 4.0 blocks/ 1.7 steals/ 79.5% FT or...
hakeem - 33 p/ 10.3 r/ 4.5 a/ 2.8 blocks/ 1.2 steals/ 68% FT

...still dream'in.

sdballer5588
02-09-2013, 06:27 PM
okay...
career playoff averages...
shaq - 24.3 p/ 11.6 r/ 2.7 a/ 2.1 blocks/ .5 steals/ 50% FT
hakeem - 25.9 p/ 11.2r/ 3.2 a/ 3.3 blocks/ 1.7 steals/ 71.9% FT

career playoffs, i'm taking the dream.

best single postseason averages...
shaq - 30.7 p/ 15.4 r/ 3.1 a/ 2.4 blocks/ .6 steals/ 46% FT
hakeem - 37.5 p/ 16.8 r/ 1.8 a/ 2.8 blocks/ 2.3 steals/ 88% FT

...still dream'in

best postseason averages in a ring year...
shaq - 30.7 p/ 15.4 r/ 3.1 a/ 2.4 blocks/ .6 steals/ 46% FT
hakeem - 28.9 p/ 11 r/ 4.3 a/ 4.0 blocks/ 1.7 steals/ 79.5% FT or...
hakeem - 33 p/ 10.3 r/ 4.5 a/ 2.8 blocks/ 1.2 steals/ 68% FT

...still dream'in.

I love the context you give it lol, you include FT% like that matters. Hakeems was awful too lol 68%.

Also loved the "best postseason averages" Shaqs best being a RING year Hakeems being a 3-1 loss rofl

lee4
02-09-2013, 06:39 PM
I love the context you give it lol, you include FT% like that matters. Hakeems was awful too lol 68%.

Also loved the "best postseason averages" Shaqs best being a RING year Hakeems being a 3-1 loss rofl

FT % MATTERS! and hakeem is a career 70% FT shooter, which is good for his position! i would have included FG% too, but those were nearly identical, with both being over 50%.

and i GAVE YOU RING YEAR COMPARISONS... and SHAQ STILL LOSES TO BOTH HAKEEM YEARS!!!

but here...

okay...higher stat in bold
career playoff averages...
shaq - 24.3 p/ 11.6 r/ 2.7 a/ 2.1 blocks/ .5 steals
hakeem - 25.9 p/ 11.2r/ 3.2 a/ 3.3 blocks/ 1.7 steals

career playoffs, i'm taking the dream.

best single postseason averages...
shaq - 30.7 p/ 15.4 r/ 3.1 a/ 2.4 blocks/ .6 steals
hakeem - 37.5 p/ 16.8 r/ 1.8 a/ 2.8 blocks/ 2.3 steals

...still dream'in

best postseason averages in a ring year...
shaq - 30.7 p/ 15.4 r/ 3.1 a/ 2.4 blocks/ .6 steals
hakeem - 28.9 p/ 11 r/ 4.3 a/ 4.0 blocks/ 1.7 steals or...
hakeem - 33 p/ 10.3 r/ 4.5 a/ 2.8 blocks/ 1.2 steals

...still dream'in.

SAME RESULT.

sdballer5588
02-09-2013, 06:40 PM
FT % MATTERS! i would have included FG% too, but those were nearly identical, with both being over 50%.

and i GAVE YOU RING YEAR COMPARISONS... and SHAQ STILL LOSES TO BOTH HAKEEM YEARS!!!

Yet you still put pts and rebounds when they were almost identical, I'm just pointing out your own pathetic bias.

How did Hakeem win the ring argument? Shaq has 4 rings and 3 FMVPS lol get out of here

sdballer5588
02-09-2013, 06:44 PM
Why not add more stats? PER in ring years

Shaq 30.5 28.7 28.3
Hakeem 27.7 26.7

Playoff career PER

Shaq 26
Hakeem 23

WS48 is even farther in shaqs favor.

LiftHeavy85
02-09-2013, 06:46 PM
I take back what I said, Hakeem was straight nasty with the rock.

sdballer5588
02-09-2013, 06:46 PM
Uh Yinka Dare?

Color me confused.

nvrstopworking
02-09-2013, 06:47 PM
If you're going to use regular seasons tats all day then sure, Hakeem > Shaq. But I was talking peak vs peak, playoff vs playoff, it's not even really close.

No one was better than prime shaq. NO ONE.

Wilt just turned over in his grave.

lee4
02-09-2013, 06:47 PM
Yet you still put pts and rebounds when they were almost identical, I'm just pointing out your own pathetic bias.

How did Hakeem win the ring argument? Shaq has 4 rings and 3 FMVPS lol get out of here

my BIAS???

i included those because those are the ONLY stats shaq WON. bias...lol. take away Pts and Rbs, and Hakeem walks away with it...



okay...higher stat in bold
career playoff averages...
shaq - 2.7 a/ 2.1 blocks/ .5 steals
hakeem - 3.2 a/ 3.3 blocks/ 1.7 steals

career playoffs, i'm taking the dream.

best single postseason averages...
shaq - 3.1 a/ 2.4 blocks/ .6 steals
hakeem - 1.8 a/ 2.8 blocks/ 2.3 steals

...still dream'in

best postseason averages in a ring year...
shaq - 3.1 a/ 2.4 blocks/ .6 steals
hakeem - 1.8 a/4.0 blocks/ 1.7 stealsor...
hakeem - 4.5 a/ 2.8 blocks/ 1.2 steals

...still dream'in.


...................what customized metric would you like to lose on now?

sdballer5588
02-09-2013, 06:55 PM
Wilt just turned over in his grave.

You had to play against more than 8 total black guys to enter into consideration.

You also couldn't have an arch rival win 11 rings during your career.

jkeithc82
02-09-2013, 07:05 PM
Color me confused.

Exceptional talent that wasn't with us long enough. Was probably the best passer of his size to date.

sdballer5588
02-09-2013, 07:12 PM
Exceptional talent that wasn't with us long enough. Was probably the best passer of his size to date.

I...... wah? 4 career assists.....total



Is a mod trolling me.

jkeithc82
02-09-2013, 07:17 PM
I...... wah? 4 career assists.....total



Is a mod trolling me.

sd, Yinka had a rare gift that statistics could not account for entirely. It is said that criticism of his lack of passing motivated Wilt Chamberlain to lead the league one year in assists. Well think of it in reverse for Dare. He played nearly an entire season without registering a single assist.

B0B4Life
02-09-2013, 07:17 PM
LOL what?
Its the truth. Shaq understood how to pass and make everyone better from the day he entered the league.

Hakeem was always a great scorer but he needed Rudy T to teach him how to make his teammates better offensively. The games aren't on youtube anymore but if they were you could see the 91 playoffs where Vlade Divac and Sam Perkins double teamed him every time he got the ball and Hakeem stopped posting up basically turned in to a rebounder and let guys like Vernon Maxwell go 1 on 1 and chuck up shots.

sdballer5588
02-09-2013, 07:33 PM
sd, Yinka had a rare gift that statistics could not account for entirely. It is said that criticism of his lack of passing motivated Wilt Chamberlain to lead the league one year in assists. Well think of it in reverse for Dare. He played nearly an entire season without registering a single assist.

Wilt also led the league in illegitimate children after being called "impotent".

JustBulk
02-11-2013, 04:50 AM
Shaq did not need an offensive arsenal, who the hell could stop him
Shaq did not need an elite 2 guard, just because he GOT one doesn't mean it was REQUIRED

Yup, Shaq was so dominant that the Lakers who blowing out opponents every game. Oh wait, he needed an elite 2 guard to lead his team in a critical Game 7.


Just being 7 foot 2 makes you a pretty OKAY defender.


Shawn Bradley was 7 foot 6.



Also I fkn lost it at saying Hakeem was stronger.


7 0 255 lbs vs 7 2 325 lbs

LOLWAT

I always thought you could, at the very least, read box scores. Strong omission of the word "mental".


Shaq did not need MJ to retire to finally win

Shaq won a title in 1996?

LiftHeavy85
02-11-2013, 05:13 AM
Yup, Shaq was so dominant that the Lakers who blowing out opponents every game. Oh wait, he needed an elite 2 guard to lead his team in a critical Game 7.



Shawn Bradley was 7 foot 6.



I always thought you could, at the very least, read box scores. Strong omission of the word "mental".



Shaq won a title in 1996?bulls won a title in 1996

svtballa
02-11-2013, 06:11 AM
Olajuwon>> shaq...but it's close. He was a better defender and I forgot where I but i ran across this stat before if I remember correctly Olajuwon had the least shot block attempt foul percentage of all time.

nvrstopworking
02-11-2013, 06:20 AM
You had to play against more than 8 total black guys to enter into consideration.

You also couldn't have an arch rival win 11 rings during your career.

Was Wilt supposed to beat arguably the greatest team of all time... stacked with half a dozen HOFers?

You wanted dominance.... Wilt was DOMINANT. He was bigger and more athletic than everyone else in the league at the time... just like Shaq was.

AND he actually had game outside of 6ft from the basket.

cchar042
02-11-2013, 06:22 AM
Dream- ORtg 108, DRtg 98

Shaq- ORtg 113, DRtg 101



Hakeem has the edge defensively, Shaq has the edge offensively. It's difficult to definitively say who is better, and picking one over the other would depend entirely on who you're pairing them with.

dRose37
02-11-2013, 07:11 AM
Hakeem.

Telliking
02-11-2013, 07:37 AM
Hakeem. common the dude is continuely quoted as being one of the best leaders and hardest working champions. while Shaq got fat and formed chemistry issues with Kobe, the rising star of the team. Also to those who argued young Magic Shaq 1995 4-0.

JustBulk
02-11-2013, 09:41 AM
bulls won a title in 1996

Lol, strong ability to understand sarcasm.

sdballer5588
02-11-2013, 02:44 PM
Was Wilt supposed to beat arguably the greatest team of all time... stacked with half a dozen HOFers?

You wanted dominance.... Wilt was DOMINANT. He was bigger and more athletic than everyone else in the league at the time... just like Shaq was.

AND he actually had game outside of 6ft from the basket.

That HoFer argument is the worst argument of all the Russell haters / pro wilt people.

Years Russells team was clearly more talented, 61 62 63 64, and a VERY slight edge in 1960.in 65, it was dead even, and 65 - 69 wilts teams were stronger, making the final tally 5-4-1 in favor of Russell.

That's almost DEAD EVEN yet somehow Russell comes out with 11 rings vs 2. From 64 on Wilt had MORE than enough to win every single year.

Russell played with 4 top 50 all time players (Havlicek Cousy Sharman and Sam Jones)

Wilt played with 6 top 50 all time players. (Baylor West Greer Cunningham Arizin and Thurmond)

Russells teammates were selected to 26 all star games, Wilts were selected to 24.

lsiberian
02-11-2013, 03:08 PM
What's funny is Robert Horry got them both rings with his clutch shots. Basketball is a team game.

sdballer5588
02-11-2013, 03:33 PM
Btw. Jordan was in the league when shaq won his rings.

Stay irate haters.

dRose37
02-11-2013, 04:04 PM
Btw. Jordan was in the league when shaq won his rings.

Stay irate haters.

jordan was 38 and was on the wizards..lol

sdballer5588
02-11-2013, 04:05 PM
jordan was 38 and was on the wizards..lol

But was he in the league? Check.... mate...

dRose37
02-11-2013, 04:08 PM
But was he in the league? Check.... mate...


lmao and? jordan was in the eastern conference and literally had no affect on shaqs championship run..

JustBulk
02-11-2013, 10:26 PM
Btw. Jordan was in the league when shaq won his rings.

Stay irate haters.


But was he in the league? Check.... mate...

Lmao.

Ok, since that's your logic...

MJ was in the league in 1995 when Olajuwon picked up his second ring.

Check.....mate.

Kiarip
02-12-2013, 12:37 PM
Shaq had a better career. Yes, he was lazy and declined but Olajuwon's career was plagued with injuries and he was quite overrated in general except at his peak, when he was indeed very good. Since Olajuwon could make free throws and played better defense I'd probably put him ahead of Shaq in terms of peak comparison, but Shaq definitely has been better for longer.

Also, Kareem and Wilt > Shaq.

When Shaq was practically in his prime he fought against Olajuwon at his peak pretty evenly (Magic vs Rockets finals,) but Olajuwon got spanked by an elderly Kareem for the 8 years that they were both in the league (81-89) who in turn got smashed in his prime by an elderly Wilt (Wilt who was way past his prime during which he was absolutely unstoppable.)

Also there was Malone who outplayed a slightly out of prime Kareem head to head more often than not, so he needs to be put ahead of both.

Long story short overall play: Wilt > Malone > Kareem > Shaq ~ Olajuwon

Career-wise: Kareem > Wilt > Shaq > Olajuwon > Malone

Peak play: Hard to tell but Wilt > Everyone else while Shaq and Olajuwon are pretty even with Malone ahead of both, and Kareem's peek is really ambiguous since he played for like 50 years.

leafs43
02-12-2013, 12:46 PM
Shaq and Hakeem are really tied in my opinion.


They had a completely different style of play that was vastly radical from one another. Hakeem had the undefendable sky hook that was pretty much a guaranteed 2 points every trip down the floor. Shaq forced teams to develop an entire strategy around getting him to the free throw line because he was unstoppable otherwise.

Kiarip
02-12-2013, 12:50 PM
Shaq and Hakeem are really tied in my opinion.


They had a completely different style of play that was vastly radical from one another. Hakeem had the undefendable sky hook that was pretty much a guaranteed 2 points every trip down the floor. Shaq forced teams to develop an entire strategy around getting him to the free throw line because he was unstoppable otherwise.

? Hakeem mostly shot jumpshots. He was like a taller slower version of kevin garnett

lee4
02-12-2013, 01:32 PM
? Hakeem mostly shot jumpshots. He was like a taller slower version of kevin garnett

congrats. i think you managed to be wrong on every single facet of your post here.

jkeithc82
02-12-2013, 01:58 PM
? Hakeem mostly shot jumpshots. He was like a taller slower version of kevin garnett

You're on the right track but you got the players and styles wrong. You mean to say Shaq mostly dunked and couldn't do much else, whereas Hakeem could score in just about every possible way save for hitting 3's.

sdballer5588
02-12-2013, 02:00 PM
You're on the right track but you got the players and styles wrong. You mean to say Shaq mostly dunked and couldn't do much else, whereas Hakeem could score in just about every possible way save for hitting 3's.

That is the nicest way of saying "you are an idiot" I've seen so far.

jkeithc82
02-12-2013, 02:02 PM
That is the nicest way of saying "you are an idiot" I've seen so far.

I'm trying to be a kinder, gentler mod these days.

sdballer5588
02-12-2013, 02:07 PM
I'm trying to be a kinder, gentler mod these days.

I noticed that when you didn't neg me for calling you an idiot. If I were a mod, I'd neg me.

jkeithc82
02-12-2013, 02:18 PM
I noticed that when you didn't neg me for calling you an idiot. If I were a mod, I'd neg me.

I've been called far worse. ;)

sdballer5588
02-12-2013, 02:19 PM
I've been called far worse. ;)

If I were a mod. I'd rep me.

DeeBO-
02-12-2013, 02:19 PM
Olajuwon is very underrated, everyone always talks about shaq,wilt etc and forget to mention him

shaq was just sooo dominant offensively but the dream is right there behind him terms of scoring but hes the better overall player

have to give the nod to olajuwon

sdballer5588
02-12-2013, 02:22 PM
Olajuwon is very underrated, everyone always talks about shaq,wilt etc and forget to mention him

shaq was just sooo dominant offensively but the dream is right there behind him terms of scoring but hes the better overall player

have to give the nod to olajuwon

I actually think he's way overrated. At least as a "teacher". You can't teach Olajuwons touch around the basket.

How many bum ass big men have "been taught" by hakeem over the summer and learned nothing. Like 500?

jkeithc82
02-12-2013, 02:40 PM
I actually think he's way overrated. At least as a "teacher". You can't teach Olajuwons touch around the basket.

How many bum ass big men have "been taught" by hakeem over the summer and learned nothing. Like 500?

You also can't teach his amazing footwork. He grew up a soccer player for god's sake.

dRose37
02-12-2013, 03:31 PM
I actually think he's way overrated. At least as a "teacher". You can't teach Olajuwons touch around the basket.

How many bum ass big men have "been taught" by hakeem over the summer and learned nothing. Like 500?



Amare and Mcgee no doubt got better after learning post position from hakeem. same goes for lebron and kobe especially

sdballer5588
02-12-2013, 03:32 PM
Amare and Mcgee no doubt got better after learning post position from hakeem. same goes for lebron and kobe especially

Amare and Mcgee have not improved their post up games one bit.

JustBulk
02-13-2013, 05:04 AM
Shaq and Hakeem are really tied in my opinion.


They had a completely different style of play that was vastly radical from one another. Hakeem had the undefendable sky hook that was pretty much a guaranteed 2 points every trip down the floor. Shaq forced teams to develop an entire strategy around getting him to the free throw line because he was unstoppable otherwise.

And not a single mention about defense was mentioned that day.


I actually think he's way overrated. At least as a "teacher". You can't teach Olajuwons touch around the basket.

How many bum ass big men have "been taught" by hakeem over the summer and learned nothing. Like 500?

And yet people are willing to work with him.

inb4 people would want to be taught by Shaq, except you can't teach people to be strong and power your way to the hoop. If Shaq was that great, surely he would have other tips that players would want to learn.

svtballa
02-13-2013, 05:15 AM
And not a single mention about defense was mentioned that day.



And yet people are willing to work with him.

inb4 people would want to be taught by Shaq, except you can't teach people to be strong and power your way to the hoop. If Shaq was that great, surely he would have other tips that players would want to learn.

I agree with this. some things just cant be taught..Thats like saying when ray allen retires hes going to teach people how to shoot the 3?? that will never work. hakeem tries to teach but mcgee?? cmon that guy is a clown...5 knees amare? he did however help lebron noticiably

JustBulk
02-16-2013, 03:01 AM
Top 5 C:
1. Shaquille O'Neal
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Bill Russel
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
.

DH is a dumb kunt.