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HTownOlajuwon
01-19-2013, 02:58 PM
1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Magic Johnson
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Tim Ducnan

and then #11 would be Lebron James and after this season ends, I think Lebron will take that #9 spot, maybe even #8.

B0B4Life
01-19-2013, 03:00 PM
Shaq and Duncan are top 5. Take Kobe out he's top 15 not top 10.

thefederalist
01-19-2013, 03:07 PM
you overrated russell based on rings and wilt based on inferior competition.

1. Lebron
2. Hakeem
3. Jordan
4. Bird
5. Shaq
6. Russell
7. Duncan
8. Sabonis
9. Magic
10. Kobe

Winter52
01-19-2013, 03:10 PM
Duncan should be above Kobe imo

ImJJames
01-19-2013, 03:13 PM
I pretty much agree with your list OP, but I would replace Hakeem Olajuwon with Oscar Robertson.

EDIT: lol @ the two red's list.

cheerupemokid
01-19-2013, 03:28 PM
1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Magic Johnson
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Tim Ducnan

and then #11 would be Lebron James and after this season ends, I think Lebron will take that #9 spot, maybe even #8.

1. Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Bill Russell
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Oscar Robertson
6. Larry Bird
7. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Shaquille O'Neal
10. Kobe Bryant

arman24
01-19-2013, 03:35 PM
strong username to bias ratio

GPx
01-19-2013, 03:36 PM
Age: 19

iwanagetbig
01-19-2013, 03:42 PM
Age: 19 strong this. i dont think anyone should be ranking alltime for any sport till you have seen every player in their prime/ WHOLE career

ChrisPaulfor40
01-19-2013, 03:51 PM
Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Wilt
Oscar
Bird
Hakeem
Duncan
Kobe
Shaq

Still think Shaq carried to the 1st 3
But Kobes role in those 1st 3 plus the 2 extra rings plus never being a fat slob who played himself into shape

Interchange bird n Oscar if u must.

serevei
01-19-2013, 04:02 PM
sabonis and walton>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

RogerSterling
01-19-2013, 04:06 PM
1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Magic Johnson
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Tim Ducnan

and then #11 would be Lebron James and after this season ends, I think Lebron will take that #9 spot, maybe even #8.

Although I disagree with Kobe being top 10 I understand the argument that he his.

Overall good non-troll thread. Good job OP

GeorgeJetson
01-19-2013, 04:09 PM
but who was Damien Lillard?

thefederalist
01-19-2013, 04:10 PM
sabonis and walton>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


this. ppl who don't have Arvydas Sabonis as a top 5 big just don't know basketball.

18tnToDLHV4

RBdxARINWok

serevei
01-19-2013, 04:18 PM
top 5 big not sure if srs... more like top 2 alltime regardless of position.

Mrs Grudge
01-19-2013, 04:22 PM
you overrated russell based on rings and wilt based on inferior competition.

1. Lebron
2. Hakeem
3. Jordan
4. Bird
5. Shaq
6. Russell
7. Duncan
8. Sabonis
9. Magic
10. Kobe lmfao, r u fuking retarded.

Says Wilt shouldn't be in based on inferior competition (Lol What? there were way better centers than then there are now), but you have ****ing Sabonis. You really wanna compare Wilt's competition to Sabonis in his prime?

thefederalist
01-19-2013, 04:24 PM
lmfao, r u fuking retarded.

Says Wilt shouldn't be in based on inferior competition (Lol What? there were way better centers than then there are now), but you have ****ing Sabonis. You really wanna compare Wilt's competition to Sabonis in his prime?

you'd have an argument IF it weren't obvious that Sabonis was far and away more talented.

he is a top 3-4 most dynamic NBA player of all time with Lebron and Magic/Bird and dominated team USA at the olympics and routinely embarrassed shaq and the twin towers in his 30s

yungbreezy
01-19-2013, 04:44 PM
Lol @ putting Russell #2.

If you're putting him that high solely on his rings, then you might as well put him #1 because no one matches him.

cheerupemokid
01-19-2013, 04:48 PM
you'd have an argument IF it weren't obvious that Sabonis was far and away more talented.

he is a top 3-4 most dynamic NBA player of all time with Lebron and Magic/Bird and dominated team USA at the olympics and routinely embarrassed shaq and the twin towers in his 30s

He won a gold when he as a professional was playing against college kids from the USA.

thefederalist
01-19-2013, 04:56 PM
He won a gold when he as a professional was playing against college kids from the USA.

most NBA players were once college players, brah.

david robinson
dan majerle
danny manning
stacey augmon
mitch richmond
hersey hawkins
jr reid

coached by John Thompson

Gooner89
01-19-2013, 04:57 PM
No Scalabrine, no care.

cheerupemokid
01-19-2013, 05:01 PM
most NBA players were once college players, brah.

david robinson
dan majerle
danny manning
stacey augmon
mitch richmond
hersey hawkins
jr reid

coached by John Thompson

Playing guys that go on to be good pros when they're in college isn't the same as playing them when they're professionals, brah.

When you're a professional, basketball is your job when you're in college basketball is a part time thing.

InSaiyan
01-19-2013, 05:03 PM
but who was jeremy lin?

nvrstopworking
01-19-2013, 05:05 PM
1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Magic Johnson
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Tim Ducnan

and then #11 would be Lebron James and after this season ends, I think Lebron will take that #9 spot, maybe even #8.

Replace Kobe with Oscar Robertson and your list is fine.

Sjas
01-19-2013, 05:07 PM
Lol @ having Kobe above Duncan.

thefederalist
01-19-2013, 05:13 PM
Playing guys that go on to be good pros when they're in college isn't the same as playing them when they're professionals, brah.

When you're a professional, basketball is your job when you're in college basketball is a part time thing.

generally, yes you're right. but let's consider this:

The Admiral was 23 when he played and lost to Sabonis during the 1988 summer olympics. As a 24 y/o rookie in 1989, he averaged 24 - 12 and 4 blocks per winning Rookie of the Month every month and Rookie of the Year, 2nd team all defense behind Hakeem.


not a typical college kid, bro

mcboo2
01-19-2013, 05:15 PM
1) Jordan
2) Kareem
3) Magic
4) Bird
5)Kobe
6)Russel
7)Duncan
8)Wilt
9) Shaq
10) Hakeem
After that Lebron/Barkley/ Big O whoever.

This is the most unbiased list. And it isn't really debatable at all

Edit: And to anyone that doesn't have kobe in their top ten: you are a retard, EVERY single knowledgeable individual in the sport disagrees with you phaggot. So gtfo out with your hating goals of 2013, we know you only mad cus you know he would never pass to you if you were a player. el o el

serevei
01-19-2013, 05:17 PM
1. Walton
2. Sabonis
3. Jordan
4. Bird
5. Magic
6. Kareem
7. Duncan
8. Shaq
9. Hakeem
10. Big O

4backcracks
01-19-2013, 05:19 PM
1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Magic Johnson
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Tim Ducnan

and then #11 would be Lebron James and after this season ends, I think Lebron will take that #9 spot, maybe even #8.

1. Jordan
2. Magic/Larry
4. Russell
5. Hakeem
6. Duncan
7. Wilt/Kareem
9. Oscar
10. Shaq

4backcracks
01-19-2013, 05:25 PM
1) Jordan
2) Kareem
3) Magic
4) Bird
5)Kobe
6)Russel
7)Duncan
8)Wilt
9) Shaq
10) Hakeem
After that Lebron/Barkley/ Big O whoever.

This is the most unbiased list. And it isn't really debatable at all

lawl gooby please.

1. It's all but consensus that Jordan is head and shoulders above Magic and Larry, who in turn are head and shoulders above the rest.
2. Kobe and Kareem over Russel and Duncan? So two guys who obsessed over individual stats and scoring and didn't make their teammates better over two consummate winners and leaders? Sounds legit.
3. Even in his twighlight Hakeem dominated Shaq and Shaq even admitted that. Hakeem was the clear cut best center in the best class of centers the NBA ever had.
4. Kobe over Russell? Really bro? Really?

JOSEfrakich
01-19-2013, 05:27 PM
1. Lebron James
2. Michael Jordan
3. Magic Johnson
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Larry Bird
7. Jeremy Lin
8. T-Mac
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Tim Ducnan

persianbloak
01-19-2013, 05:28 PM
LOL @ shaq better than Hakeem....LOLOLOL

persianbloak
01-19-2013, 05:30 PM
1) Kareem
2) Jordan
3) Magic
4) Russell
5) Wilt
6) Hakeem
7) Shaq
8) Kobe
9) Bird
10) Duncan

BrainnD0nn
01-19-2013, 05:32 PM
no oscar no care

no jerry west no care(Mr NBA logo himself and not even listed once in this thread)

malone also has an argument

mcboo2
01-19-2013, 05:32 PM
[quote] lawl gooby please.

1. It's all but consensus that Jordan is head and shoulders above Magic and Larry, who in turn are head and shoulders above the rest.
2. Kobe and Kareem over Russel and Duncan? So two guys who obsessed over individual stats and scoring and didn't make their teammates better over two consummate winners and leaders? Sounds legit.
3. Even in his twighlight Hakeem dominated Shaq and Shaq even admitted that. Hakeem was the clear cut best center in the best class of centers the NBA ever had.
4. Kobe over Russell? Really bro? Really? [/end quote]

1. what are you trying to say here?
2. Kobe and Kareem are over Russel for the simple fact that he played in a league with almost no competition, and only had a very small amount of teams, thats why they get the edge. Kobe and Kareem are both over duncan for the impact of their sucess versus the skill of their teamatees. Longevity plays a role here first of all, and Duncan has constantly be surrounded by atleast 3 HOFers his entire career, along with the second GOAT coach. Ring count, individiual and team sucess both put those two above him.
3. Again, Shaq gets the edge over hakeem for his sheer dominance over a 5 year period. If Jordan didn't leave for 2 years, no way in hell Hakeem even gets one ring. Shaq admitted that but he hadn't been anywhere close to peaking during that time
4. Really bro, really

Bezzz
01-19-2013, 05:33 PM
Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Kobe
Hakeem
Duncan
Bird
Shaq
Wilt
Russel'

inb4LBJ#1

SweatAndTears
01-19-2013, 05:34 PM
Russell is the most overrated player of all time. Brb *** in a small white man league, brb getting alot of rebounds brb top 5 all time.
Russell is not even top 10 all time, come at me.

BrainnD0nn
01-19-2013, 05:37 PM
Russell is the most overrated player of all time. Brb *** in a small white man league, brb getting alot of rebounds brb top 5 all time.
Russell is not even top 10 all time, come at me.

youre drinking right?

JOSEfrakich
01-19-2013, 05:39 PM
inb4LBJ#1

too late m8

StarfaceChris
01-19-2013, 05:40 PM
1. jordan
2. kareem
3. bird
4. kobe
5. wilt
6. magic
7. shaq
8. hakeem
9. west
10. barkley

mcboo2
01-19-2013, 05:40 PM
Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Kobe
Hakeem
Duncan
Bird
Shaq
Wilt
Russel'

inb4LBJ#1

This is actually not a bad list, repped for not being a retard. Though i think you underrate wilt/russel a bit

Briah
01-19-2013, 05:44 PM
1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Magic Johnson
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Tim Ducnan

and then #11 would be Lebron James and after this season ends, I think Lebron will take that #9 spot, maybe even #8.

Fix your top 5 op. Lmfao at putting Bill/Magic/Wilt/Bird/Shaq/Hakeem over Kobe, you are so frosty.

This will be the top 5 list when Kobe retires.

1.MJ
2.Kobe
3.Magic
4.Kareem
5.Wilt

serevei
01-19-2013, 05:44 PM
lack of walton in this thread is srsly disrespectful #learnthegame.

BrainnD0nn
01-19-2013, 05:47 PM
Fix your top 5 op. Lmfao at putting Bill/Magic/Wilt/Bird/Shaq/Hakeem over Kobe, you are so frosty.

This will be the top 5 list when Kobe retires.

1.MJ
2.Kobe
3.Magic
4.Kareem
5.Wilt

Location: Los Angeles lol

its MJ, a big man, Magic- then the rest is debatable

mcboo2
01-19-2013, 05:47 PM
lack of walton in this thread is srsly disrespectful #learnthegame.

Probably because he's not close to the top 10?

serevei
01-19-2013, 06:06 PM
Probably because he's not close to the top 10?

not sure if srs...

best passing big man of all time

top 2 most dominant player of all time

#haditall

mcboo2
01-19-2013, 06:09 PM
not sure if srs...

best passing big man of all time

top 2 most dominant player of all time

#haditall

I was born in Oregon brah, OBV i'm a big fan. hes not top ten, the delusion is strong in you

thefederalist
01-19-2013, 06:16 PM
I was born in Oregon brah, OBV i'm a big fan. hes not top ten, the delusion is strong in you

he was 31 y/o when he came to portland and had already played 16 years on an obliterated lower body.

destroyed knees and other injuries to his ankles as a 7'3" center and he still had a good 5 years with the Blazers

builder95
01-19-2013, 06:20 PM
If we are going off stats this is a close list, but if we're basing this off raw skill then some of those players should be bumped down.

builder95
01-19-2013, 06:24 PM
1. Lebron James
2. Michael Jordan
3. Magic Johnson
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Larry Bird
7. Jeremy Lin
8. T-Mac
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Tim Ducnan
Lol Get jeremy lin and tmac outta here.

HTownOlajuwon
01-19-2013, 10:03 PM
not sure if srs...

best passing big man of all time

top 2 most dominant player of all time

#haditall
He had like 2 dominant seasons, that's not enough. He probably had a top 10 peak though.

JustBulk
01-19-2013, 10:24 PM
Lol @ Shaq over Olajuwon.

HTownOlajuwon
01-19-2013, 10:26 PM
Lol @ Shaq over Olajuwon.
Career-wise, Shaq was better. Peak-wise? It's debatable, but I'd roll with Dream.

iMakeItRain100s
01-19-2013, 10:29 PM
but who was Damien Lillard?

This. Lmao @ any top 10 that doesn't have Damian Michael Stockton in it

thedodger
01-20-2013, 12:15 AM
Career-wise, Shaq was better. Peak-wise? It's debatable, but I'd roll with Dream.

Theres no way you can say that Shaq was better than the Dream. The Dream was much more complete and versatile. Shaq played in an era where there was no great center to challenge him. Mount Mutombo, Robinson, Ewing, were all at the tail end of their careers. The Dream played in the Jordan years and against much better competition. We all know nobody was going to beat a Jordan led Bulls in the finals. If the Dream played in Shaqs era, he would have 5-6 rings. When the Dream played against Shaq in the finals, Shaq got swept.

The Dream is top 10 all time in blocks, rebounds, scoring and steals (yes steals, amazing considering the guy is a center). The Dream was also a 5 time all defensive first team....Shaq not even once.

Lets be real here. When Shaq was winning championships he was considered a superstar and got ALL the calls (just like Lebron). I've never seen another player travel and commit offensive fouls as much as Shaq (ok, maybe Lebron). Shaq just bulldozed his way down the lane or backed up his big fat rump up 2 ft from the basket and made high percentage shots. When he got pushed out beyond 5 ft, his fg % dropped to like 30%. Shaq was good at two things: passing (for a big man), and making other guys foul out when guarding him.

The Dream was a better rebounder and actually had a jump shot. If Shaq couldnt dunk it or lob it from 3 ft out, he wasnt scoring. And lets not talk about Shaqs defense. SO lazy coming off the pick and roll and you never saw this guy defending out on the perimeter. The only thing he did well has sit his fat a$$ in the lane and block it with his massive size. Once teams caught on to how lazy he was at defending they came after him and made him foul. The guy was mediocre defensively.

Which leads to my last point. When the game was on the line in crunch time, the Dream was out on the court leading his team while Shaq would be sitting on the bench. Why? Simple; he could not shoot free throws. The guy could not make a free throw to save his life. I don't want to hear any excuses about this, there is nothing out there that will explain how many free throws this guy bricked. The Dream could make FT and actually shot above 70% for most of his career which is excellent for a big man. Shaq was a liability to his team at the free throw line and cost his team many games. The opposing coaches would take guys off the bench and throw them out there just for the purpose of fouling Shaq because they knew that at best he would only make one free throw.

Dream >>> Shaq

BrainnD0nn
01-20-2013, 12:26 AM
text wall of peace

answer this.

1 v 1 at the park, game to 11, who would win?


shaq. keem would touch the ball only if he got it first.

iwanagetbig
01-20-2013, 12:46 AM
Lets be honest... Have any of you ever seen half of the guys on your lists play? And goats/top 10's aren't made off of just stats...

CriticalThought
01-20-2013, 01:27 AM
lol at kobe being above duncan

duncan has 3 finals mvps to kobes 2

yungbreezy
01-20-2013, 01:31 AM
lol at kobe being above duncan

duncan has 3 finals mvps to kobes 2

So you're saying Duncan > Larry Bird and Kareem too?

CriticalThought
01-20-2013, 01:42 AM
So you're saying Duncan > Larry Bird and Kareem too?

kareems/bird mvps give them the edge

SpiderSense
01-20-2013, 01:44 AM
this. ppl who don't have Arvydas Sabonis as a top 5 big just don't know basketball.

18tnToDLHV4

RBdxARINWok

Please tell me you're kidding.

I was a huge fan of Sabonis' game but top 5?

All time?

IDK if he was top 5 when he was playing:

Shaq
Mourning
Ewing
Robinson

Motumbo?
Sabonis?

yungbreezy
01-20-2013, 01:46 AM
kareems/bird mvps give them the edge

Because media voted awards are legit....

serevei
01-20-2013, 02:57 AM
Please tell me you're kidding.

I was a huge fan of Sabonis' game but top 5?

All time?

IDK if he was top 5 when he was playing:

Shaq
Mourning
Ewing
Robinson

Motumbo?
Sabonis?

:iono: he's the goat.

BrainnD0nn
01-20-2013, 03:01 AM
just a bunch of trolling in this thread

nobody mentioned george mikan either, easily top 10 player.

if you leave mikan and west off your list, youre a joke to me.

btlifter
01-20-2013, 03:18 AM
IMO

tier 1 Jordan (the best)
tier 2 Magic (the next)

tier 3(no order) (REALLY DOMINANT, could carry a team to a ring nearly by themselves)
Wilt
Russel
Kareem
Hakeem
Shaq
Bird

tier 4 (great players, can LEAD a team to a 'ship with some help)
Kobe
Duncan
Oscar
Lebron

tier 5 (nearly there)
Malone
Barkley

tier 6
... the rest of the superstars, but not at the top (yet)
Thomas
Stockton
Durant
Garnett...and there are probably 5-10 other players that belong in this category

It's very tough to judge two different players against eachother and be able to say who's better, I think a better strategy is to put players into groups

RubberDuckyBrah
01-20-2013, 03:24 AM
1) RubberDuckyBrah
2) start the NBA list

InsanePain11
01-20-2013, 04:05 AM
1. Jordan
2. Magic
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Duncan
6. Russell
7. Bird
8. Kobe
9. Hakeem
10. Wilt

ItWasThePlan
01-20-2013, 08:41 AM
1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Magic Johnson
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Tim Ducnan

and then #11 would be Lebron James and after this season ends, I think Lebron will take that #9 spot, maybe even #8.

very subtle OP

DeepSRS
01-20-2013, 09:01 AM
IMO

tier 1 Jordan (the best)
tier 2 Magic (the next)

tier 3(no order) (REALLY DOMINANT, could carry a team to a ring nearly by themselves)
Wilt
Russel
Kareem
Hakeem
Shaq
Bird

tier 4 (great players, can LEAD a team to a 'ship with some help)
Kobe
Duncan
Oscar
Lebron

tier 5 (nearly there)
Malone
Barkley

tier 6
... the rest of the superstars, but not at the top (yet)
Thomas
Stockton
Durant
Garnett...and there are probably 5-10 other players that belong in this category

It's very tough to judge two different players against eachother and be able to say who's better, I think a better strategy is to put players into groups

Most reasonable list thus far. Have my measlies.

Some of you are really trolling phaggots, man.

yungbreezy
01-20-2013, 09:04 AM
IMO

tier 1 Jordan (the best)
tier 2 Magic (the next)

tier 3(no order) (REALLY DOMINANT, could carry a team to a ring nearly by themselves)
Wilt
Russel
Kareem
Hakeem
Shaq
Bird

tier 4 (great players, can LEAD a team to a 'ship with some help)
Kobe
Duncan
Oscar
Lebron

tier 5 (nearly there)
Malone
Barkley

tier 6
... the rest of the superstars, but not at the top (yet)
Thomas
Stockton
Durant
Garnett...and there are probably 5-10 other players that belong in this category

It's very tough to judge two different players against eachother and be able to say who's better, I think a better strategy is to put players into groups

Lol. Not sure if srs.

Everyone on this list has needed help. MJ, Magic, Bird etc are no different to anyone else.

JustBulk
01-20-2013, 09:10 AM
IMO

tier 1 Jordan (the best)
tier 2 Magic (the next)

tier 3(no order) (REALLY DOMINANT, could carry a team to a ring nearly by themselves)
Wilt
Russel
Kareem
Hakeem
Shaq
Bird

Lmao, you dumb?

Even Jordan had help. He had Pippen (best SF in the league) and Rodman (GOAT rebounder). Having help is not a smack on any player's legacy.

And yes, Lebron fans, no one has issues with LeBron requiring help. It's the fact that he ditched his team and had to join another team to get help. True greats (MJ, Kobe) recruited help to their teams.

And really, Magic and Bird in different tiers? Lmao, the entire league agrees that both are equals. Maybe Magic is slightly better considering he won 2 more titles, but a full tier ahead? No way in hell. And this is coming from a Lakers fan.

thefederalist
01-20-2013, 09:20 AM
Please tell me you're kidding.

I was a huge fan of Sabonis' game but top 5?

All time?

IDK if he was top 5 when he was playing:

Shaq
Mourning
Ewing
Robinson

Motumbo?
Sabonis?

"The best European player to ever play the game" - pippen

"The best passing center of all time" - bill walton

"He should be in the conversation as one of the best centers ever" - sean elliot

"If Sabonis was in the NBA he'd be the best player possibly ever...best center in the league by far" - Detlef Schrempf

4backcracks
01-20-2013, 11:55 AM
Lol. Not sure if srs.

Everyone on this list has needed help. MJ, Magic, Bird etc are no different to anyone else.

* Everyone but Hakeem in 94 and 95



1. what are you trying to say here?
2. Kobe and Kareem are over Russel for the simple fact that he played in a league with almost no competition, and only had a very small amount of teams, thats why they get the edge. Kobe and Kareem are both over duncan for the impact of their sucess versus the skill of their teamatees. Longevity plays a role here first of all, and Duncan has constantly be surrounded by atleast 3 HOFers his entire career, along with the second GOAT coach. Ring count, individiual and team sucess both put those two above him.
3. Again, Shaq gets the edge over hakeem for his sheer dominance over a 5 year period. If Jordan didn't leave for 2 years, no way in hell Hakeem even gets one ring. Shaq admitted that but he hadn't been anywhere close to peaking during that time
4. Really bro, really

So if Russell is discredited for playing in a league that was too small and not competitive enough then why is Wilt over him? Wilt was famously selfish, stat obsessed, and universally disliked by his teammates. It's no mistake that Russell and Wilt played at the exact same time and Russell won more than 5 times as many rings as Wilt.

Ok, I see now that you don't actually know what you're talking about, but I'll lay this argument out for the sake of everyone else who is reading.

Let's review this claim that Duncan's success is due to his being surrounded by "at least 3 HOFers in his entire career"

1. In Duncan's first championship in 1998 David Robinson was 34 years old. Robinson averaged a respectable 15.5 ppg 10rpg and 2.5 bpg Tim averaged 23.5 ppg 11.5rpg and 2.5 bpg, was his team's go to player in the clutch. You could say Robinson at this point was an All Star level player, but was well past his glory days of being an HoF caliber player.

2. In 2003, with Robinson being little more than a role player (8 ppg 7rp) Duncan carried the Spurs past the Lakers (thoroughly outplaying Shaq) and the Mavericks. In the Finals he averaged 24-17-5. Parker, Ginobli, and Stephen Jackson combined for less than 37 ppg.

3. In 2005 he punched in another boring old 24-12-2 and 3 assists. This was the first season where he had two reliable sidekicks in Parker and Ginobli, but was still clearly the leader statistically, in the locker room, and on the defense.

4. 22-11.5 3 blocks 3 assists. Same old same old. Tony Parker and Manu effectively switched roles in terms of production, but neither could hope to question Duncan statistically or in a leadership capacity.


4 rings as the undisputed best player and team leader. 1 with a horrendous supporting cast, 1 with a good supporting cast, and 2 with a very good supporting cast.

Kareem had 6 rings.
1 where he was co-best with the Big O.
2 where he was co-best with Magic.
2 where he and Worthy were sidekicks to Magic.
1 where he was a role player

5 of Kareem's rings were with the showtime Lakers where he played with 2 Hall of Fame players in the prime of their careers, and the sixth was with another Top 10 all time player. Duncan never had the supporting casts Kareem had.

If you need to jerk off to the stats, here you go. Duncan still beats him about by a hair.

Playoff Numbers
Duncan- 22-12 3.5 apg 2.5 bpg
Kareem- 24-10.5 3apg 2.5 bpg

Kobe has 5 rings. 2 as a sidekick to Shaq, 1 as a co-leader, and 2 that he got with a loaded supporting cast that relied heavily on Gasol and Bynum.

In the seasons where he had neither Pau nor Shaq his teams missed the playoffs once, and were beaten in the first round twice.

Show me a top 10 player who's team failed to go to the second round for 3 straight seasons in that player's prime. I'll wait.




This is not baseball where regular season stats are king. The NBA is a long season, with a lot of throw away games and a lot of throw away possessions. A basketball player's legacy is decided first and foremost by his ability to make his team and his teammates better in the spring, and second by his individual performance in the post season.

reverse79
01-20-2013, 12:33 PM
"The best passing center of all time" - bill walton




"Hi" - Vlade Divac

brianphi
01-20-2013, 12:41 PM
Lillard will swoop kobe's spot within a year.

thefederalist
01-20-2013, 12:50 PM
"Hi" - Vlade Divac

yeah, you know more about basketball than bill walton.

OZSuksGMJY8

NZizsAdutYo

HLXIJU-0skw

GetBigyo
01-20-2013, 12:54 PM
Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Shaq
Bird
Hakeem
Duncan
Kobe/LeBron

FlabbyAndSick
01-20-2013, 01:00 PM
1. Michael Jordan
(2-4 any order)
2. Magic Johnson
3. Larry Bird
4. Kareem-Abdul Jabbar
5. Wilt Chamberlain
(6-10 any order)
6. Hakeem Olajuwon
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Isiah Thomas
10. Oscar Robertson

Bill Russell: Great team player. Horrible offensive stats. Played in a league with only 8 teams and the team he was on was chock-full of hall of famers. 6'9" black guy shooting 44% against 5' white guys doesn't make the top ten for me.

serevei
01-20-2013, 02:19 PM
"Hi" - Vlade Divac

simply #learnthegame.

4backcracks
01-20-2013, 02:30 PM
simply #learnthegame.

lol says the guy who has Sabonis as his GOAT.

jkeithc82
01-20-2013, 02:31 PM
I pretty much agree with your list OP, but I would replace Hakeem Olajuwon with Oscar Robertson.

EDIT: lol @ the two red's list.

You should be red after that comment.

serevei
01-20-2013, 02:41 PM
lol says the guy who has Sabonis as his GOAT.

gimme dat der adelmans corner offense of peace with a prime walton or sabonis and goodnight/10

Shortstop36
01-20-2013, 02:58 PM
1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Wilt
4. Larry Bird
5. Kareem
6. Bill Russell
7. Shaq
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Tim Duncan
10. Kobe Bryant

Honorable Metions.

David Robinson
Kevin Garnett
Jerry West
Oscar Robertson
Karl Malone
isiah thomas
allen iverson
Julius Erving
Lebron James
Scottie pippen
Charles barkley