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View Full Version : Will Tracy Mcgrady make the HoF?



SB101010
01-18-2013, 01:31 PM
p_CGxj3dHGA

I was at this game, was amazing. I miss T-Mac being in the league, he was my favorite player

brb_ballin
01-18-2013, 01:34 PM
no.

couldn't stay healthy and couldn't do anything in the playoffs.

cchar042
01-18-2013, 01:34 PM
He just wasn't elite for long enough.

JRRBadBoy4Life
01-18-2013, 01:37 PM
Negged.
http://stuffpoint.com/houston-rockets/image/147012-houston-rockets-tracy-mcgrady-get-red-wallpaper.jpg

thefederalist
01-18-2013, 01:37 PM
peaked at 23. could have been top 5-7 all time had he stayed healthy.

HoustonMiscer
01-18-2013, 01:38 PM
Fuk no. That moment was fuking awesome though. Brah could never stay healthy. I was actually a big T-mac fan when he was here but he could have been so much more

FlabbyAndSick
01-18-2013, 01:42 PM
7x All Star
7x All-NBA
2x Scoring Champ

18,000 points

Let him in.

Masstastic
01-18-2013, 01:45 PM
Is this a serious thread?

T-Mac gets in on his 1st or 2nd ballot for the "Basketball Hall of Fame".

Did he fall off due to injuries? Yeah. Still doesnt change the fact he was a 7X All-NBA player.

This isn't the NFL or MLB HOF's we're talking about.

Its all about the peak for the basketball HOF and it has nothing to do with politics or off the court stuff.

evansanity
01-18-2013, 01:46 PM
What about Grant hill and Vince carter?

HTownOlajuwon
01-18-2013, 01:46 PM
He probably will because the basketball HOF is a joke. Don't even be surprised if Anthony Parker makes it because of his 2 Euroleague MVPs.

He shouldn't though, but seeing some of the players that have made the HOF, he probably will.

killerthrilller
01-18-2013, 01:47 PM
What about Grant hill and Vince carter?

hill yes

carter no

tmac lol

HTownOlajuwon
01-18-2013, 01:49 PM
hill yes

carter no

tmac lol
tmac was better than both..

killerthrilller
01-18-2013, 01:51 PM
tmac was better than both..

thats why hes still in the nba

HTownOlajuwon
01-18-2013, 01:52 PM
thats why hes still in the nba
When they were all in their primes, McGrady was the best. I don't even like McGrady, but he was clearly the best when they were all at their best.

Masstastic
01-18-2013, 01:53 PM
7x All Star
7x All-NBA
2x Scoring Champ

18,000 points

Let him in.
This. He gets in without much thought or debate.

Yeah the responses in here are mindblowingly retarded.

So a guy gets a good 11 seasons in before he's a complete non-factor and goes to 7 All Star games & makes 7 All-NBA teams and he does that all before he is 28 and now he's having the rest of his career held against him? Amazing. His season in Detroit is more significant than many of his "prime" seasons considering he went out there stiff as a board due to his back with a bad knee and somehow played nearly the entire season including an entire month where he started in his traditional Point Forward role. Proved his skill level was that high.

killerthrilller
01-18-2013, 01:54 PM
When they were all in their primes, McGrady was the best. I don't even like McGrady, but he was clearly the best when they were all at their best.

3 good years doesnt make you a hall of famer

Masstastic
01-18-2013, 01:58 PM
He probably will because the basketball HOF is a joke. Don't even be surprised if Anthony Parker makes it because of his 2 Euroleague MVPs.

He shouldn't though, but seeing some of the players that have made the HOF, he probably will.

The award itself has only existed since he won it.

That doesn't hold much weight considering there are only 7 different winners of it since 2004.

Europeans who get it typically are either European-born who excelled in international competition and were respected as the best players in their domestic leagues or were successful coaches. Also many of the best European players ended up coming to the NBA so it does help those guys.

Anthony Parker came to the NBA and the only thing I remember him for is being Candace Parker's sister.

Masstastic
01-18-2013, 02:03 PM
3 good years doesnt make you a hall of famer

3 great years & 4 good years does.

killerthrilller
01-18-2013, 02:08 PM
3 great years & 4 good years does.

seasons where he shoots below 45% are not good years

FlabbyAndSick
01-18-2013, 02:09 PM
3 good years doesnt make you a hall of famer

26.1 ppg during an 8 year stretch

Chris mullin got in and his best stretch was 25.8ppg over 5 years. He was also only a 5x All-Star and 4x All-NBA

Masstastic
01-18-2013, 02:11 PM
seasons where he shoots below 45% are not good years

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnmvcyigg81qbqt8go1_400.gif

GetBigyo
01-18-2013, 02:13 PM
Is this a serious thread?

T-Mac gets in on his 1st or 2nd ballot for the "Basketball Hall of Fame".

Did he fall off due to injuries? Yeah. Still doesnt change the fact he was a 7X All-NBA player.

This isn't the NFL or MLB HOF's we're talking about.

Its all about the peak for the basketball HOF and it has nothing to do with politics or off the court stuff.
Agreed.

He shouldn't IMO, but he will based on his peak being incredible. T-Mac's peak season was one of the best players i've watched, but he's never been out of the 1st round in the pathetic East and didn't stay healthy long enough.

killerthrilller
01-18-2013, 02:13 PM
26.1 ppg during an 8 year stretch

Chris mullin got in and his best stretch was 25.8ppg over 5 years. He was also only a 5x All-Star and 4x All-NBA

tmac shoots almost as bad as iverson despite being a foot taller

Ganjamayne
01-18-2013, 02:14 PM
He's fuuarking sheeit up in the China league right now completely healthy, surprised no team wants to sign him.

FlabbyAndSick
01-18-2013, 02:16 PM
tmac shoots almost as bad as iverson despite being a foot taller

Bill Russell shot almost worst than both despite being almost a foot taller than almost everybody in that part-time league back then.

Good thing fg% doesn't determine if you make it in the Hall or not.

Masstastic
01-18-2013, 02:18 PM
tmac shoots almost as bad as iverson despite being a foot taller

T-Mac had the same shot selection Kobe has today, except he could pass.

Why are you bitching about FG%?

4backcracks
01-18-2013, 02:20 PM
Is this a serious thread?

T-Mac gets in on his 1st or 2nd ballot for the "Basketball Hall of Fame".

Did he fall off due to injuries? Yeah. Still doesnt change the fact he was a 7X All-NBA player.

This isn't the NFL or MLB HOF's we're talking about.

Its all about the peak for the basketball HOF and it has nothing to do with politics or off the court stuff.

That sounds a lot like this other guy I've hard of... Bernard King. He's 31st in all time scoring, was 16th when he retired, had a peak similar to TMac's, and is still not in the HoF.

I won't say for sure TMac doesn't get in, but my money says no.


The award itself has only existed since he won it.

That doesn't hold much weight considering there are only 7 different winners of it since 2004.

Europeans who get it typically are either European-born who excelled in international competition and were respected as the best players in their domestic leagues or were successful coaches. Also many of the best European players ended up coming to the NBA so it does help those guys.

Anthony Parker came to the NBA and the only thing I remember him for is being Candace Parker's sister.

You're wrong about the politics part. The NBA HOF is definitely going to be electing in more European players for the sake of spreading the game. Idk about Anthony Parker, but guys like Tony Parker and Manu who would otherwise be borderline guys (based solely on NBA numbers) are considered to be all but locks.

FlabbyAndSick
01-18-2013, 02:28 PM
That sounds a lot like this other guy I've hard of... Bernard King. He's 31st in all time scoring, was 16th when he retired, had a peak similar to TMac's, and is still not in the HoF.

I won't say for sure TMac doesn't get in, but my money says no.



You're wrong about the politics part. The NBA HOF is definitely going to be electing in more European players for the sake of spreading the game. Idk about Anthony Parker, but guys like Tony Parker and Manu who would otherwise be borderline guys (based solely on NBA numbers) are considered to be all but locks.

What years do you consider King's peak? His 4 years with the knicks? He never had a stretch better than tmac's from 2000-2008. Plus tmac avg'd more rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks than bernard.

B0B4Life
01-18-2013, 02:38 PM
No but he has a better case than guys like Pierce, Miller and Allen who will probable get in.

4backcracks
01-18-2013, 02:41 PM
What years do you consider King's peak? His 4 years with the knicks? He never had a stretch better than tmac's from 2000-2008. Plus tmac avg'd more rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks than bernard.

BK was a scoring champ and a two time first team all NBA in the NBA's golden age.

From 80-85 he averaged 25-6-3.
Tmac in 2000-2007 averaged 26-6-5.5

King also had a second peak from 88-91 where he put up 24-5-4.
After TMac's peak he became little more than a role player on bad teams.


edit: ^ holy fuark at how useful basketballreference.com is for comparing stats like this

ThaWorldIsYours
01-18-2013, 02:42 PM
I don't think he should get in, but he might. I already feel like they let in too many people, it should be more exclusive.

4backcracks
01-18-2013, 02:42 PM
No but he has a better case than guys like Pierce, Miller and Allen who will probable get in.

lol please go, TMac doesn't belong in the same sentence as any of those guys.

Masstastic
01-18-2013, 02:46 PM
That sounds a lot like this other guy I've hard of... Bernard King. He's 31st in all time scoring, was 16th when he retired, had a peak similar to TMac's, and is still not in the HoF.

I won't say for sure TMac doesn't get in, but my money says no.
Bernard King:
Reached Playoffs 3 times in his prime
4X All Star, 4X All NBA regardless of his numbers

T-Mac:
Once again we're talking 2 different levels as T-Mac has the greater resume and was done in such a quicker amount of time. We're talking first 11 seasons. 8 All Star or All-NBA worthy seasons, 2 as a green kid out of HS playing a bench role on the Raptors, and 1 at the very end where he had to get season ending knee surgery.

T-Mac is always a "what if" question simply because he had a great career that could've been on an All-Time great level.

I'll tell you what he is more deserving of the HOF based on his "prime" than Paul Pierce was, hes an example of a guy should wait but is going to get in anyways on the strength of winning a ring & longevity to amass statistical accomplishments.




You're wrong about the politics part. The NBA HOF is definitely going to be electing in more European players for the sake of spreading the game. Idk about Anthony Parker, but guys like Tony Parker and Manu who would otherwise be borderline guys (based solely on NBA numbers) are considered to be all but locks.
Saying Tony Parker is a "European" player(his dad is from Chicago & taught him how to play our style bruh) and would get in on accomplishments of being French is ridiculous, like it or not Parker & Manu have been 2 key cogs of a Spurs team that won 3 Championships in a 10 year span that they always were Finals contendors in. They were irreplacable in multiple Finals runs which is why they're still there and management is still building around them.

The only guys who get in are Dirk, Pau, Tony P, Manu, & Vlade.

Then possibly Peja has the best chance after that group but it'd be unlikely.

So who else is getting in? The Bricky Rubio's and Il Busto's of the world aren't scratching the surface, there already different variations of a HOF for guys who spent their entire careers in Europe. Im sure FIBA has one.

4backcracks
01-18-2013, 02:51 PM
Bernard King:
Reached Playoffs 3 times in his prime
4X All Star, 4X All NBA regardless of his numbers

T-Mac:
Once again we're talking 2 different levels as T-Mac has the greater resume and was done in such a quicker amount of time. We're talking first 11 seasons. 8 All Star or All-NBA worthy seasons, 2 as a green kid out of HS playing a bench role on the Raptors, and 1 at the very end where he had to get season ending knee surgery.

T-Mac is always a "what if" question simply because he had a great career that could've been on an All-Time great level.

I'll tell you what he is more deserving of the HOF based on his "prime" than Paul Pierce was, hes an example of a guy should wait but is going to get in anyways on the strength of winning a ring & longevity to amass statistical accomplishments.



Saying Tony Parker is a "European" player(his dad is from Chicago & taught him how to play our style bruh) and would get in on accomplishments of being French is ridiculous, like it or not Parker & Manu have been 2 key cogs of a Spurs team that won 3 Championships in a 10 year span that they always were Finals contendors in. They were irreplacable in multiple Finals runs which is why they're still there and management is still building around them.

The only guys who get in are Dirk, Pau, Tony P, Manu, & Vlade.

Then possibly Peja has the best chance after that group but it'd be unlikely.

So who else is getting in? The Bricky Rubio's and Il Busto's of the world aren't scratching the surface, there already different variations of a HOF for guys who spent their entire careers in Europe. Im sure FIBA has one.

Sorry brah off to the gym. Ill bump later.

Masstastic
01-18-2013, 02:53 PM
BK was a scoring champ and a two time first team all NBA in the NBA's golden age.

From 80-85 he averaged 25-6-3.
Tmac in 2000-2007 averaged 26-6-5.5

Playing in New York City helps.

A superior scorer statstically was lurking in Denver, a small market in the 80's without the internet.



King also had a second peak from 88-91 where he put up 24-5-4.
After TMac's peak he became little more than a role player on bad teams.

Check his team's record.

After T-Mac's peak he simply could not recover to ever get back to the level he played at due to the injuries he has.

Its one thing to play basketball on a bad knee, but its another to have a bad back & bad knee.

GeorgeJetson
01-18-2013, 02:53 PM
God, I loved TMac in Orlando. Such a shame he couldn't stay healthy.

For about a year in the early 2000s he was better than Kobe. (srs)

ko5567
01-18-2013, 02:58 PM
No but he has a better case than guys like Pierce, Miller and Allen who will probable get in.

notsureifsrs

Masstastic
01-18-2013, 03:01 PM
I don't think he should get in, but he might. I already feel like they let in too many people, it should be more exclusive.

They don't let in too many people. They let in just enough, but since they dont do the politics like the NFL or have a special voting committe of men who have never played the game like the MLB, decide then we can speculate on if a guy's numbers simply are good enough.

As a basketball fan its much easier to draw the line on who was HOF level and who wasn't.

Just look at how there was always a different way of perception of "greatness" to AI & Kidd compared to B-Diddy & Starbury while they played at the same time.

Masstastic
01-18-2013, 03:12 PM
He's fuuarking sheeit up in the China league right now completely healthy, surprised no team wants to sign him.

He had a few workouts before the season but he wasn't interested in a non-guaranteed contract.

Doesn't have enough pride in his game today to play without his money being guaranteed.



According to a Jilin newspaper, McGrady will sit down for non-mandatory media sessions only under the following conditions: An up front payment of $5,000 for a one-on-one interview and $1,000 for a group interview.

Which explains why nobody has gotten an exclusive interview in China with McGrady yet. And it also explains why you haven’t seen a lot of off-court pictures either because if you want one of those, you apparently have to pick up the fee for his hotel suite.
http://www.niubball.com/2013/01/want-to-interview-tracy-mcgrady-thatll-cost-you-five-stacks/

http://i39.tinypic.com/9qeosn.jpg

GeorgeJetson
01-18-2013, 03:15 PM
^is he broke??

GeorgeJetson
01-18-2013, 03:17 PM
Qf0h0A8kiAk

so smooth. amazing to watch.

ThaWorldIsYours
01-18-2013, 03:21 PM
basketball reference has a neat HOF Probability rating, and according to their rating T-Mac has a 58% of making the HOF.


They've got him behind these current players, in order: Kobe, Duncan, KG, LeBron, DWade, Dirk, Pierce, Kidd, Ray Allen, Chris Paul, Bosh, Vince Carter, Tony Parker, Dwight, Melo, Gasol, and Amare.


Their formula looks at the accomplishements of those who already made the hall vs. the accomplishments of a given player and uses some sort of algorithm to put a % on whether they will make it or not.

FlabbyAndSick
01-18-2013, 03:26 PM
BK was a scoring champ and a two time first team all NBA in the NBA's golden age.

From 80-85 he averaged 25-6-3.
Tmac in 2000-2007 averaged 26-6-5.5

King also had a second peak from 88-91 where he put up 24-5-4.
After TMac's peak he became little more than a role player on bad teams.


edit: ^ holy fuark at how useful basketballreference.com is for comparing stats like this

I'd say the 83-84 and 84-85 seasons were his peak.

It's not like he was averaging 25ppg consistently during that 5 year run. His numbers are skewed by that 84-85 season. Look at tmacs 5 year scoring average run of 26.8, 25.6, 32.1, 28, and 25.7. Now look at Bernard's numbers of 21.9, 23.2, 21.9, 26.3, and 32.9.


At the end of the day, tmac is more decorated with better numbers than king's.

Masstastic
01-18-2013, 03:30 PM
basketball reference has a neat HOF Probability rating, and according to their rating T-Mac has a 58% of making the HOF.


They've got him behind these current players, in order: Kobe, Duncan, KG, LeBron, DWade, Dirk, Pierce, Kidd, Ray Allen, Chris Paul, Bosh, Vince Carter, Tony Parker, Dwight, Melo, Gasol, and Amare.


Their formula looks at the accomplishements of those who already made the hall vs. the accomplishments of a given player and uses some sort of algorithm to put a % on whether they will make it or not.

I've got T-Mac behind all of them in the bold too when all is said & done.

ThaWorldIsYours
01-18-2013, 03:38 PM
I've got T-Mac behind all of them in the bold too when all is said & done.

Agreed on Vince, and I would prob put T-Mac ahead of Amare as well.

GeorgeJetson
01-18-2013, 03:46 PM
lol amare???

Masstastic
01-18-2013, 03:46 PM
Agreed on Vince, and I would prob put T-Mac ahead of Amare as well.

Thats if Amare doesn't bounce back tho

So far so good.

21/9 career average and he took **** on Timmy 4 rings in the Playoffs.

Maximum
01-18-2013, 03:55 PM
God, I loved TMac in Orlando. Such a shame he couldn't stay healthy.

For about a year in the early 2000s he was better than Kobe. (srs)

it is a shame. whats a bigger shame is how him and Hill never managed to play together like they were supposed to.

killerthrilller
01-18-2013, 04:23 PM
T-Mac had the same shot selection Kobe has today, except he could pass.

Why are you bitching about FG%?

kobe shot a higher fg%

4backcracks
01-18-2013, 06:33 PM
Bernard King:
Reached Playoffs 3 times in his prime
4X All Star, 4X All NBA regardless of his numbers

T-Mac:
Once again we're talking 2 different levels as T-Mac has the greater resume and was done in such a quicker amount of time. We're talking first 11 seasons. 8 All Star or All-NBA worthy seasons, 2 as a green kid out of HS playing a bench role on the Raptors, and 1 at the very end where he had to get season ending knee surgery.

T-Mac is always a "what if" question simply because he had a great career that could've been on an All-Time great level.

I'll tell you what he is more deserving of the HOF based on his "prime" than Paul Pierce was, hes an example of a guy should wait but is going to get in anyways on the strength of winning a ring & longevity to amass statistical accomplishments.



Saying Tony Parker is a "European" player(his dad is from Chicago & taught him how to play our style bruh) and would get in on accomplishments of being French is ridiculous, like it or not Parker & Manu have been 2 key cogs of a Spurs team that won 3 Championships in a 10 year span that they always were Finals contendors in. They were irreplacable in multiple Finals runs which is why they're still there and management is still building around them.

The only guys who get in are Dirk, Pau, Tony P, Manu, & Vlade.

Then possibly Peja has the best chance after that group but it'd be unlikely.

So who else is getting in? The Bricky Rubio's and Il Busto's of the world aren't scratching the surface, there already different variations of a HOF for guys who spent their entire careers in Europe. Im sure FIBA has one.


You'll forgive me if I put no stock whatsoever into All Star nominations. If we're going to argue play relative to peers the only way to do it is All-NBA teams.

TMac- 2 first team, 5 other team
King- 2 first team, 2 other << Note also that the voters will of course be biased towards King, because he played in the NBA's Golden Age.

In this, I would say slight edge to TMac, but it's close enough to push. First team appearances matter far more than 2nd and 3rd, and in that they are tied.


In terms of individual production, King had 11 seasons of averaging about 20+ points, 5+ boards, and 3+ assists. TMac had 8. For seasons averaging 26+ ppg they are tied at 3, and their peak individual seasons were almost identical (King was slightly better). So for individual production, King wins peak stats by a nose, and beats him in career totals by a mile.

Both players have the career narrative of not being winners, plain and simple. I'm not going to argue this because TMac never made it out of the first round. Nothing else you say matters.


I won't disagree with you, but if you want to play the what if game we can completely rewrite NBA history using only plausible counter-factual scenarios. For example if Lenny Bias didn't die the first and only time he did a drug, Larry's career would have gone on an extra 2-3 years, the C's would have beaten the Lakers in at least one more final, we would remember Larry as having a clear edge over Magic, the greatest GM in the history of sports wouldn't have been fired, and Lenny Bias' Celtics might have been the nemesises Jordan never truly had.

The fact of the matter is that none of that ever happened, and TMac was an injury machine.



The point is, the Hall has made it abundantly clear that Bernard King will not be inducted. If the only thing separating him from TMac are minutia, why should we believe TMac will be inducted? To say he is a lock for first ballot is just foolish, especially considering the HoF class he'll be up against.