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View Full Version : Why does refeeding/binge eating/having a cheat day result in further weight loss?



Miickk
12-11-2012, 10:02 PM
Title says it all. I remember my first cut I ever did I'd have massive cheat days. I'd eat to the point where I was sick and easily hit the 6000-8000 calorie mark. But, after I'd return to my normal diet for six out of the seven days of the week I'd be down an extra kilo (2.2lbs more weight loss).

What is the reason for this? Surely a massive day like that would have completely thrown off my weekly allowance of calories and deterred my weight loss.

Eric Helms says that he experienced a similar phenomenon during his pre-contest diet.

A discussion on this topic would be quite interesting. I presume it has something to do with TEF but I always thought that the slight increase in thermogenesis wouldn't be enough to influence weight loss.

determined4000
12-11-2012, 10:03 PM
Leptin

Miickk
12-11-2012, 10:13 PM
Leptin

I thought leptin didn't have an effect on metabolic rate. I thought it effected hunger and satiation. Is there any evidence to support this theory?

TomBremner
12-11-2012, 10:15 PM
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html

/thread

AlwaysTryin
12-11-2012, 11:25 PM
Whoosh

Miickk
12-11-2012, 11:56 PM
So does that mean an excessive refeed is better then a more conservative one? For example:
- Person A refeeds but calculates everything to the gram.
- Person B goes on an all out binge eating fest for the day and hits up every fast food joint he/she can think of and finishes the night with a tub of ice cream.

From personal experience I have found that B far surpasses A for results but I just feel uncomfortable eating that much food so I've only done it like twice. Good fun though.

gloria7
12-12-2012, 01:06 AM
There are lots of protocols that allow for a cheat day/week and give great resutls, I guess it has to do with raised leptin, a slight increase in metabolism due to the large quantity of food, more intense workouts=more calories burned etc.

If you are interested, check out the iron addicts forums. There are guys following the massive cheat day/week protocol, they try to eat as much as they can once per week(8k is considered "weak" lol, they can eat up to 12k), high fat and high carb, and fast the next day(really easy to do and after all those calories you don't feel like eating), normal deficit the rest 5 days (it's up to you, 10% deficit, 20% def. or more). The math seem wrong, but it works. Those are the rough "guidelines" if you want to call it that way.
There's another guy, Skip, who uses a similar(?) approach (skiploading) to prepare people for comp. as well as average Joes. Once per week for 6hrs you eat as many high GI carbs(cereal, pancakes, lowfat processed anything) as you want as long as you are hungry and then continue with your normal diet.

I've experimented with both since my hunger is always there and I really can't stick to a diet without a weekly "off". I had better results with skiploading because if leptin has anything to do with the results, it is said to be raised on high carb intake and in skiploading you limit your fats so you can eat way more carbs. Also you get to know how your body responds in this, since you begin with 6hrs carbload and if you lose all the water weight in 2-3 days then next week you extend your carbload by 2 hrs. If you carry the water for too many days then you've eaten more carbs than you needed and you cut 2 hrs etc. Also as I've already mentioned I'm forever hungry so I didn't like much the fasting day following the first approach.

Miickk
12-12-2012, 01:14 AM
There are lots of protocols that allow for a cheat day/week and give great resutls, I guess it has to do with raised leptin, a slight increase in metabolism due to the large quantity of food, more intense workouts=more calories burned etc.

If you are interested, check out the iron addicts forums. There are guys following the massive cheat day/week protocol, they try to eat as much as they can once per week(8k is considered "weak" lol, they can eat up to 12k), high fat and high carb, and fast the next day(really easy to do and after all those calories you don't feel like eating), normal deficit the rest 5 days (it's up to you, 10% deficit, 20% def. or more). The math seem wrong, but it works. Those are the rough "guidelines" if you want to call it that way.
There's another guy, Skip, who uses a similar(?) approach (skiploading) to prepare people for comp. as well as average Joes. Once per week for 6hrs you eat as many high GI carbs(cereal, pancakes, lowfat processed anything) as you want as long as you are hungry and then continue with your normal diet.

I've experimented with both since my hunger is always there and I really can't stick to a diet without a weekly "off". I had better results with skiploading because if leptin has anything to do with the results, it is said to be raised on high carb intake and in skiploading you limit your fats so you can eat way more carbs. Also you get to know how your body responds in this, since you begin with 6hrs carbload and if you lose all the water weight in 2-3 days then next week you extend your carbload by 2 hrs. If you carry the water for too many days then you've eaten more carbs than you needed and you cut 2 hrs etc. Also as I've already mentioned I'm forever hungry so I didn't like much the fasting day following the first approach.

That's a very interesting read. Thank you for contributing. The vast increase in water retention is one of the reasons why I prefer a structured refeed over a full cheat day despite the amount you get to eat. I would jump up about 3-4kg the next day and feel bloated as. When I would walk my stomach would feel like jelly. Quite bizzar I reckon.

AlwaysTryin
12-12-2012, 01:19 AM
So does that mean an excessive refeed is better then a more conservative one?

No

It just means your body experiences a whoosh and to be patient

DJohnson
12-12-2012, 07:35 AM
No

It just means your body experiences a whoosh and to be patient

This.

saw7988
12-12-2012, 07:40 AM
The two most important benefits of cheats and refeeds imo are psychological benefits and replenishing muscle glycogen. I don't think any metabolism-related reasons have much validity.

Ahmed81
12-12-2012, 07:47 AM
The two most important benefits of cheats and refeeds imo are psychological benefits and replenishing muscle glycogen. I don't think any metabolism-related reasons have much validity.

this. I believe the whole "your metabolism boosts with a refeed" theory was debunked.

Personal opinion, unless you are on a daily carb intake of < 120 g, I don't see why a refeed would be necessary. I cut on 2250 calories and get close to 200 g carbs everyday. I don't see how a refeed would help anyone like me in a similar situation, regardless of how lean. If anyone has any insight on this, feel free to respond.

AlwaysTryin
12-12-2012, 10:06 AM
this. I believe the whole "your metabolism boosts with a refeed" theory was debunked.

Personal opinion, unless you are on a daily carb intake of >120 g, I don't see why a refeed would be necessary. I cut on 2250 calories and get close to 200 g carbs everyday. I don't see how a refeed would help anyone like me in a similar situation, regardless of how lean. If anyone has any insight on this, feel free to respond.

I think you mean < 120g

tom626
12-12-2012, 11:54 AM
There are lots of protocols that allow for a cheat day/week and give great resutls, I guess it has to do with raised leptin, a slight increase in metabolism due to the large quantity of food, more intense workouts=more calories burned etc.

If you are interested, check out the iron addicts forums. There are guys following the massive cheat day/week protocol, they try to eat as much as they can once per week(8k is considered "weak" lol, they can eat up to 12k), high fat and high carb, and fast the next day(really easy to do and after all those calories you don't feel like eating), normal deficit the rest 5 days (it's up to you, 10% deficit, 20% def. or more). The math seem wrong, but it works. Those are the rough "guidelines" if you want to call it that way.
There's another guy, Skip, who uses a similar(?) approach (skiploading) to prepare people for comp. as well as average Joes. Once per week for 6hrs you eat as many high GI carbs(cereal, pancakes, lowfat processed anything) as you want as long as you are hungry and then continue with your normal diet.

I've experimented with both since my hunger is always there and I really can't stick to a diet without a weekly "off". I had better results with skiploading because if leptin has anything to do with the results, it is said to be raised on high carb intake and in skiploading you limit your fats so you can eat way more carbs. Also you get to know how your body responds in this, since you begin with 6hrs carbload and if you lose all the water weight in 2-3 days then next week you extend your carbload by 2 hrs. If you carry the water for too many days then you've eaten more carbs than you needed and you cut 2 hrs etc. Also as I've already mentioned I'm forever hungry so I didn't like much the fasting day following the first approach.

Wow, just read the thread on iron addicts about massive cheat days. It seems ridiculous, if you do the math it's a net surplus for the week in most cases. The guys on the thread say it works, but I'm a little skeptical since the guy who invented it is also the owner of the forum...

lee__d
12-12-2012, 11:58 AM
cKP8w3UaYrg

gmWodFl2NLE

REAxeTWo1QM

CHRISTOPHERTEE
12-12-2012, 12:19 PM
this. I believe the whole "your metabolism boosts with a refeed" theory was debunked.

Personal opinion, unless you are on a daily carb intake of >120 g, I don't see why a refeed would be necessary. I cut on 2250 calories and get close to 200 g carbs everyday. I don't see how a refeed would help anyone like me in a similar situation, regardless of how lean. If anyone has any insight on this, feel free to respond.


I think people like me that low carb 6/7 days a week ( <20g a day) benefit more with fat loss on a refeed day when you go all out or structured.

Miickk
12-12-2012, 12:51 PM
Wow, just read the thread on iron addicts about massive cheat days. It seems ridiculous, if you do the math it's a net surplus for the week in most cases. The guys on the thread say it works, but I'm a little skeptical since the guy who invented it is also the owner of the forum...

Yes, I also believe their eating habits are borderline ED. Binge one day, fast the next. Sounds terrible to me. Consistency is key.


this. I believe the whole "your metabolism boosts with a refeed" theory was debunked.

Personal opinion, unless you are on a daily carb intake of >120 g, I don't see why a refeed would be necessary. I cut on 2250 calories and get close to 200 g carbs everyday. I don't see how a refeed would help anyone like me in a similar situation, regardless of how lean. If anyone has any insight on this, feel free to respond.

I don't know if the theory was debunked, there is just very little to no scientific evidence to suggest that a high calorie surplus for one day increases metabolic rate or influences other metabolic processes in the body. Many people have anecdotally confirmed (like myself) that one day of eating like mad results in more weight loss. But, I don't think this is a result of an increased metabolism.

I personally think anything under 200g of carbs is low and just feel terrible.


[youtube]cKP8w3UaYrg[YouTube]

[youtube]gmWodFl2NLE[youtube]

[youtube]REAxeTWo1QM[youtube]

This is what promoted me to make this thread. After Helms said that even when he competed he found he lost more weight after a day of like 500-600c I was like wtf?

Ahmed81
12-12-2012, 01:40 PM
I think you mean < 120g

Yes that's what I meant. fixed





Yes, I also believe their eating habits are borderline ED. Binge one day, fast the next. Sounds terrible to me. Consistency is key.



I don't know if the theory was debunked, there is just very little to no scientific evidence to suggest that a high calorie surplus for one day increases metabolic rate or influences other metabolic processes in the body. Many people have anecdotally confirmed (like myself) that one day of eating like mad results in more weight loss. But, I don't think this is a result of an increased metabolism.

I personally think anything under 200g of carbs is low and just feel terrible.



This is what promoted me to make this thread. After Helms said that even when he competed he found he lost more weight after a day of like 500-600c I was like wtf?

I guess it's just a matter of personal preference with the carb intake. I feel great on 180 g carbs, sometimes I even think it's too much lol

Miickk
12-12-2012, 03:57 PM
I feel great on 180 g carbs, sometimes I even think it's too much lol
Maybe it's an age thing. Right now I'm eating like 300g Carbs and I feel ok. But at the 400-500g mark I am a machine. My lifts skyrocket. I'm talking adding 5kg to the bar every few days.

tom626
12-13-2012, 02:28 AM
I'm currently at around 300g carbs and I feel like my energy is lagging a bit after being used to 400-500. But maybe it's because of something else, who knows.

Miickk
12-13-2012, 12:32 PM
i'm currently at around 300g carbs and i feel like my energy is lagging a bit after being used to 400-500. But maybe it's because of something else, who knows.
Thermic effect of food?

funkiestchicken
12-15-2012, 02:53 AM
I completely agree with OP!!!

I think this all comes down to the individual knowing their own body. Today is my extra food day and I feel so much better for it and I know this will help me in the weight loss department.

Once we diet long enough; I think people individually get to know their body's characteristics and there is no point in saying "no, that has no basis" when in fact there is no cookie cutter textbook formula for how every body works

tom626
12-15-2012, 05:31 AM
Thermic effect of food?

Sorry I don't know much about that, can you elaborate?

Miickk
12-15-2012, 11:56 AM
Sorry I don't know much about that, can you elaborate?
The calories used to digest food see:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermic_effect_of_food