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MilwaukeeBrah
09-14-2012, 10:57 AM
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/249545-the-libya-fiasco-and-the-folly-of-intervention


The attack on the U.S. consulate in Libya and the killing of the U.S. ambassador and several aides is another tragic example of how our interventionist foreign policy undermines our national security. The more the U.S. tries to control the rest of the world, either by democracy promotion, aid to foreign governments, or by bombs, the more events spin out of control into chaos, unintended consequences, and blowback.

Unfortunately what we saw in Libya this week is nothing new.

In 1980s Afghanistan the U.S. supported Islamic radicals in their efforts to expel the invading Soviet military. These radicals became what we now know as al-Qaeda, and our one-times allies turned on us most spectacularly on September 11, 2001.

Iraq did not have a significant al Qaeda presence before the 2003 U.S. invasion, but our occupation of that country and attempt to remake it in our image caused a massive reaction that opened the door to al Qaeda, leading to thousands of US soldiers dead, a country destroyed, and instability that shows no sign of diminishing.

In Libya we worked with, among others, the rebel Libyan Fighting Group (LIFG) which included foreign elements of al-Qaeda. It has been pointed out that the al-Qaeda affiliated radicals we fought in Iraq were some of the same groups we worked with to overthrow Gaddafi in Libya. Last year in a television interview I predicted that the result of NATO’s bombing of Libya would likely be an increased al-Qaeda presence in the country. I said at the time that we may be delivering al-Qaeda another prize.

Not long after NATO overthrew Gaddafi, the al Qaeda flag was flown over the courthouse in Benghazi.

Too bad no one will listen to him.

tk217
09-14-2012, 11:00 AM
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/249545-the-libya-fiasco-and-the-folly-of-intervention



Too bad no one will listen to him.

The military said the same stuff. He is actually just iterating what the Pentagon told the president and congress.

MilwaukeeBrah
09-14-2012, 11:04 AM
The military said the same stuff. He is actually just iterating what the Pentagon told the president and congress.

Thanks for the info (do u have a link? curious). Obama gonna Obama, Romney gonna Romney.

2k10SS
09-14-2012, 11:08 AM
CWILhrSzw5o

MuscularTophFan
09-14-2012, 11:10 AM
Ron Paul is a looney tones terrorist sympathizer.

tk217
09-14-2012, 11:14 AM
Thanks for the info (do u have a link? curious). Obama gonna Obama, Romney gonna Romney.


The rebels are composed primarily of civilians, such as teachers, students, lawyers, and oil workers, and a contingent of professional soldiers that defected from the Libyan Army and joined the rebels.[145] The Islamist group Libyan Islamic Fighting Group is considered part of the rebel movement,[146] as is the Obaida Ibn Jarrah Brigade which has been held responsible for the assassination of top rebel commander General Abdul Fatah Younis.[147]

Gaddafi's administration had repeatedly asserted that the rebels included al-Qaeda fighters.[148] NATO's Supreme Allied Commander James G. Stavridis stated that intelligence reports suggested "flickers" of al-Qaeda activity were present among the rebels, but also added that there is not sufficient information to confirm there is any significant al-Qaeda or terrorist presence.[149][150] Denials of al-Qaeda membership were issued by the rebels.[151] Gaddafi's claims are supported by a secret cable to the State Department from the US embassy in Tripoli in 2008 and an analysis by the Combating Terrorism Center at the US Military Academy at West Point of a set of documents called the Sinjar Records, purporting to show a statistical study of the al-Qaeda personnel records. The West Point analysis of these documents concluded that Libya provided "far more" foreign fighters in per capita terms than any other country.[152] A disclosed file from 2005 on WikiLeaks found that rebel leader Abu Sufian Ibrahim Ahmed Hamuda Bin Qumu was a former Guantanamo Bay detainee alleged to be a member of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, to have joined the Taliban in 1998, and that he was a “probable member of Al Qaida and a member of the African Extremist Network.”[153]

Ok.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_civil_war

ticktickytembo
09-14-2012, 11:15 AM
DJLMtRt88ZU

Tekkendo
09-14-2012, 11:25 AM
Ron Paul is a looney tones terrorist sympathizer.
Wow..you finally posted something we both agree on.... :D

Dave22reborn
09-14-2012, 11:29 AM
Gawd, does he actually believe the bull**** that comes out of his mouth?

JoshSP1985
09-14-2012, 11:34 AM
Gawd, does he actually believe the bull**** that comes out of his mouth?

The god damn pentagon agrees with him. Are you being serious?

How can you think destabilizing a country doesn't make it easier for militant/terrorist groups to spread?

amtharin
09-14-2012, 11:39 AM
If he became pres, what would he do?? Just forget about Ambassador Stevens, and just come home?? He's got an idealistic point of view that would be great if we were starting as a country today, but if he became president, he would have to deal with current situations.

Tekkendo
09-14-2012, 11:43 AM
RP thinks if we would just stick our head in the sand, everything would be just fine. lolz.

Good thing no one IRL takes him seriously.

halfbr3d
09-14-2012, 11:44 AM
Gawd, does he actually believe the bull**** that comes out of his mouth?

What do you think the American people would do if another country came over seas trying to tell us how our country should be run?

MuscularTophFan
09-14-2012, 11:46 AM
If he became pres, what would he do?? Just forget about Ambassador Stevens, and just come home?? He's got an idealistic point of view that would be great if we were starting as a country today, but if he became president, he would have to deal with current situations.
Fun fact: Ron Paul was going to originally vote against military action against Osama bin laden after 9/11 but he would have lost his political carrer and voted out of office if he did.

MuscularTophFan
09-14-2012, 11:47 AM
RP thinks if we would just stick our head in the sand, everything would be just fine. lolz.

Good thing no one IRL takes him seriously.

http://fc.nbsc.org/~swurster/PICTURES/2bseuss5.jpg

JUSA
09-14-2012, 11:57 AM
Fun fact: Ron Paul was going to originally vote against military action against Osama bin laden after 9/11 but he would have lost his political carrer and voted out of office if he did. Fun fact: MuscularTophFan likes to make out outright falsehoods because he's a small-minded idiot.

ticktickytembo
09-14-2012, 11:59 AM
Fun fact: Ron Paul was going to originally vote against military action against Osama bin laden after 9/11 but he would have lost his political carrer and voted out of office if he did.

If this is even true, which i'm skeptical of, what does that say about the political system? "Go with everybody else or be made into a pariah and have your political career ruined." Even though he is one of very few who always sticks to his principles. Here's another fun fact:

-FBI and DoJ never had any evidence to charge bin Laden with 9/11 officially. He was never on FBI's most Wanted listing for 9/11.
-When found deceased, FBI were not able to match his fingerprints.

Don't take my word for it, find out for yourself. Something honest people say.

MuscularTophFan
09-14-2012, 12:04 PM
Fun fact: MuscularTophFan likes to make out outright falsehoods because he's a small-minded idiot.

It's true. Just like how Ron Paul is also pro-life, doesn't believe in separation of church and state, supports sodomy laws that criminalize gay sex, opposes gay marriage/supports DOMA, doesn't believe in evolution, etc.

JUSA
09-14-2012, 12:18 PM
It's true. Just like how Ron Paul is also pro-life, doesn't believe in separation of church and state, supports sodomy laws that criminalize gay sex, opposes gay marriage/supports DOMA, doesn't believe in evolution, etc. ^ looks like AKR is back, still full of **** as he was too. Must be ****ty being married to a bald retarded chick who puts out (gross) nudes of herself on the interwebs.

Tekkendo
09-14-2012, 12:19 PM
If this is even true, which i'm skeptical of, what does that say about the political system? "Go with everybody else or be made into a pariah and have your political career ruined." Even though he is one of very few who always sticks to his principles. Here's another fun fact:

-FBI and DoJ never had any evidence to charge bin Laden with 9/11 officially. He was never on FBI's most Wanted listing for 9/11.
-When found deceased, FBI were not able to match his fingerprints.

Don't take my word for it, find out for yourself. Something honest people say.

A CT loonie too. GJ moron.

MuscularTophFan
09-14-2012, 12:20 PM
^ looks like AKR is back,
Nope.

amtharin
09-14-2012, 12:23 PM
It's true. Just like how Ron Paul is also pro-life, doesn't believe in separation of church and state, supports sodomy laws that criminalize gay sex, opposes gay marriage/supports DOMA, doesn't believe in evolution, etc.

You're just mad that he called Bruno a "queer".

Anondragon2012
09-14-2012, 12:23 PM
The military said the same stuff. He is actually just iterating what the Pentagon told the president and congress.

If only the military was taken more seriously than politicians with an ideology they believe from books.

GregariousWolf
09-14-2012, 12:23 PM
^ looks like AKR is back, still full of **** as he was too. Must be ****ty being married to a bald retarded chick who puts out (gross) nudes of herself on the interwebs.

You're from Texas. You should know that Brazoria county has a lot of religious conservatives and has a strong opposition to gay rights, abortion, and evolution.

ZzBrahh
09-14-2012, 12:51 PM
If he became pres, what would he do?? Just forget about Ambassador Stevens, and just come home?? He's got an idealistic point of view that would be great if we were starting as a country today, but if he became president, he would have to deal with current situations.

Ya because 1) we had no right to b there and 2) one life is worth wasting many more and tons of money n fall out that comes with it . Sorry I know it sounds nice to be big Heroes cuz someone died !!!

amtharin
09-14-2012, 12:52 PM
Ya because 1) we had no right to b there and 2) one life is worth wasting many more and tons of money n fall out that comes with it . Sorry I know it sounds nice to be big Heroes cuz someone died !!!

You dont think letting these types of things happen with no response, encourages more of it??

syddak1llakyd
09-14-2012, 01:04 PM
The god damn pentagon agrees with him. Are you being serious?

How can you think destabilizing a country doesn't make it easier for militant/terrorist groups to spread?

lmao. agreed.

Tekkendo
09-14-2012, 01:07 PM
You dont think letting these types of things happen with no response, encourages more of it??

That is how we ended up with 911. Clinton pussyfooting about going after osama, cancelling several hits on him, and refusing to arrest him even when the Sudanese offered him to Clinton.

ZzBrahh
09-14-2012, 01:16 PM
It's true. Just like how Ron Paul is also pro-life, doesn't believe in separation of church and state, supports sodomy laws that criminalize gay sex, opposes gay marriage/supports DOMA, doesn't believe in evolution, etc.

It's more important u can stick ur dick up some guys ass as compared to the economy forefront policy debt and patriot act?

ZzBrahh
09-14-2012, 01:18 PM
You dont think letting these types of things happen with no response, encourages more of it??

If we leave them alone they leave us only. They only hate us cuz we get involved in their business stop being brained washer by the media that they " hate us cuz we got freedoms and McDonald's and Walmart! "

amtharin
09-14-2012, 01:26 PM
If we leave them alone they leave us only. They only hate us cuz we get involved in their business stop being brained washer by the media that they " hate us cuz we got freedoms and McDonald's and Walmart! "

You know they are going after German embassies now, right??

illriginalized
09-14-2012, 02:39 PM
You know they are going after German embassies now, right??

Wonder why the German embassy. Is it just the one in Sudan or in other countries?

Tekkendo
09-14-2012, 02:42 PM
If we leave them alone they leave us only. They only hate us cuz we get involved in their business stop being brained washer by the media that they " hate us cuz we got freedoms and McDonald's and Walmart! "

Stop being such a sucker. How can people be this stupid as to for fall for that blatant lie by the terrorists? just b/c that is what the terrorists told you and YOU fukking believe it? LMAO How dumb and naive you people are? LOLz

RP is an old fool who ate up all the Russian KGB propaganda from the 60-80's. No need for you youngsters to drink the same kool-aid shiet.

bigkarl
09-14-2012, 02:48 PM
When was the last Arab Spring?


And what is it exactly

LN11
09-14-2012, 03:02 PM
Stop being such a sucker. How can people be this stupid as to for fall for that blatant lie by the terrorists? just b/c that is what the terrorists told you and YOU fukking believe it? LMAO How dumb and naive you people are? LOLz

RP is an old fool who ate up all the Russian KGB propaganda from the 60-80's. No need for you youngsters to drink the same kool-aid shiet.

As soon as America stops acting like the world police and hunting for vast quantities of oil then they will stop making enemies.

The Truman doctrine and the policy of containment started all of his.

I think Al Queda and other such groups are indeed scum..but there is a reason they hate the west..Because for hundreds of years they have been ****ed by it.

JinxKebab
09-14-2012, 03:48 PM
Sometimes it's beneficial to put yourself into the shoes of others and consider what has transpired to cause them to do the things they do. If some Iraqi drone flew into the US and accidental blew up my home and family I'd be pretty perturbed.

Some may even go so far as to call some Western countries "terrorists", but we shun that as quickly as we call muslims terrorists

MafiaTurk
09-14-2012, 04:09 PM
Who gives a shet what ron paul thinks

ProLibertas
09-14-2012, 04:52 PM
That is how we ended up with 911. Clinton pussyfooting about going after osama, cancelling several hits on him, and refusing to arrest him even when the Sudanese offered him to Clinton.

911 happened becuase America's foreign policy upset a bunch of people, troops in the holy land for example, you think killing Osama would have made a difference? There are thousands of Osamas, he's dead and people are still attacking you.

YUL
09-14-2012, 04:59 PM
The god damn pentagon agrees with him. Are you being serious?

How can you think destabilizing a country doesn't make it easier for militant/terrorist groups to spread?

embassies are there for diplomacy, education trade and commerce. not to destabilize another country.

Apeus
09-14-2012, 05:02 PM
embassies are there for diplomacy, education trade and commerce. not to destabilize another country.

Pretty sure he's not talking about the embassy itself destabilizing the country, but our past actions.......

BEATINGU
09-14-2012, 05:14 PM
Another thread demonstrating why Ron Paul can't be taken serious. Brb US and western embassies get attacked over a YouTube clip which pissed off uneducated retards is a result of our foreign policy.

D0omsdayPrime
09-14-2012, 05:22 PM
Gotta love idiot conservatives who say they want limited govt and then approve of these entaglements. Ron Paul is one of the few left who understandswhat is going on. How long and how much should we pay for these countries in the world. When will the policing end?

ProLibertas
09-14-2012, 05:24 PM
Another thread demonstrating why Ron Paul can't be taken serious. Brb US and western embassies get attacked over a YouTube clip which pissed off uneducated retards is a result of our foreign policy.
Though those people certainly are uneducated, what about the ones who think killing and dictating to others doesn't upset them?

D0omsdayPrime
09-14-2012, 05:25 PM
Another thread demonstrating why Ron Paul can't be taken serious. Brb US and western embassies get attacked over a YouTube clip which pissed off uneducated retards is a result of our foreign policy. The kernel point is demonstarating that despite our intentions in Libya, violence against us still persists. When are we going to mind our own business? What about the defecit and the debt?

LN11
09-14-2012, 05:27 PM
Another thread demonstrating why Ron Paul can't be taken serious. Brb US and western embassies get attacked over a YouTube clip which pissed off uneducated retards is a result of our foreign policy.

It's clearly not the sole reason.

They are pissed with the west. America's foreign policy is not popular over there. The video is an excuse to ****ing act the ****.

America brought much of this upon itself. That does not make it right however. The perpetrators of these acts are scum .. simple as that

D0omsdayPrime
09-14-2012, 05:29 PM
It's clearly not the sole reason.

They are pissed with the west. America's foreign policy is not popular over there. The video is an excuse to ****ing act the ****.

America brought much of this upon itself. That does not make it right however. The perpetrators of these acts are scum .. simple as that

Agreed. These killers are not angels but it invites the debate what are we doing here. It shold teach us that you know what, phuck these guys lets focus on us.

Redwood67
09-14-2012, 05:35 PM
Agreed. These killers are not angels but it invites the debate what are we doing here. It shold teach us that you know what, phuck these guys lets focus on us.

Flawed. Focusing on them is focusing on us. Their business is incredibly relevant to our self-interests, security and economy. This isn't the 1920's anymore, Fortress America is impossible to bring back. Do you want to wake up one morning to find out the Muslim Brotherhood has taken control of Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Turkey, etc etc etc. and have decided to blow up all the oil infrastructure of those countries?

D0omsdayPrime
09-14-2012, 05:39 PM
Flawed. Focusing on them is focusing on us. Their business is incredibly relevant to our self-interests, security and economy. This isn't the 1920's anymore, Fortress America is impossible to bring back. Do you want to wake up one morning to find out the Muslim Brotherhood has taken control of Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Turkey, etc etc etc.

This notion that the government can do acomplish all these tasks and agaendas is harming us. I ask the question, how far in debt do we go? Liberals and conservatives like govt spending on things they like and dont seem to care aboout the cost. You must think our national defense systems are based on the 1920's if you think any contry in the middle east is a threat to our national security. Our early warning systems and anti aircraft weaponry is to advanced. Those countries in the middle east barely have an actual army. Just be honest this isnt about America, this is about Israel.

ProLibertas
09-14-2012, 05:39 PM
FDo you want to wake up one morning to find out the Muslim Brotherhood has taken control of Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Turkey, etc etc etc. and have decided to blow up all the oil infrastructure of those countries?
So making Muslims hate you and driving them into the hands of extremists, prevents that how exactly?

BEATINGU
09-14-2012, 05:42 PM
The kernel point is demonstarating that despite our intentions in Libya, violence against us still persists. When are we going to mind our own business? What about the defecit and the debt?

The Arab Spring has definitely made us less safe. The issue is that Ron Paul truthfully can't comprehend that the current situation is a pure result of a bunch of retarded religious people being offended over a YouTube clip. The Government is irrelevant in all this. Unless we start censoring free speech stuff like this can't be prevented.

LN11
09-14-2012, 05:46 PM
The Arab Spring has definitely made us less safe. The issue is that Ron Paul truthfully can't comprehend that the current situation is a pure result of a bunch of retarded religious people being offended over a YouTube clip. The Government is irrelevant in all this. Unless we start censoring free speech stuff like this can't be prevented.
Again the video is merely an excuse.

These people (extremists) will use any excuse to kill a westerner.
This is to some of them a goldmine opportunity to play the victim card and act like animals so they take it.

D0omsdayPrime
09-14-2012, 05:48 PM
The Arab Spring has definitely made us less safe. The issue is that Ron Paul truthfully can't comprehend that the current situation is a pure result of a bunch of retarded religious people being offended over a YouTube clip. The Government is irrelevant in all this. Unless we start censoring free speech stuff like this can't be prevented.

The govt is relevant, were talking about policy, unintended consequences. Again, do we have a time table here. Does anyone care about the inflation that we casue from the excessive spending? ANd i agree these guys are fanantics, but what are we suppose to do and how long to we keep doing this?

D0omsdayPrime
09-14-2012, 05:50 PM
Again the video is merely an excuse.

These people (extremists) will use any excuse to kill a westerner.
This is to some of them a goldmine opportunity to play the victim card and act like animals so they take it.

ANd if we keep staying there and getting in their affairs, thats what will happen. Do you think these fools have the power to attack us and invade us?

trollspooge
09-14-2012, 05:52 PM
Just for the record, here is Osama bin Laden's 'letter to America' (partial): http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver



(Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you?

As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.

a) You attacked us in Palestine:

(i) Palestine, which has sunk under military occupation for more than 80 years. The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to the Jews, who have occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression, tyranny, crimes, killing, expulsion, destruction and devastation. The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for Israel. The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its*price, and pay for it heavily.

(ii) It brings us both laughter and tears to see that you have not yet tired of repeating your fabricated lies that the Jews have a historical right to Palestine, as it was promised to them in the Torah. Anyone who disputes with them on this alleged fact is accused of anti-semitism. This is one of the most fallacious, widely-circulated fabrications in history. The people of Palestine are pure Arabs and original Semites. It is the Muslims who are the inheritors of Moses (peace be upon him) and the inheritors of the real Torah that has not been changed. Muslims believe in all of the Prophets, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all. If the followers of Moses have been promised a right to Palestine in the Torah, then the Muslims are the most worthy nation of this.

When the Muslims conquered Palestine and drove out the Romans, Palestine and Jerusalem returned to Islaam, the religion of all the Prophets peace be upon them. Therefore, the call to a historical right to Palestine cannot be raised against the Islamic Ummah that believes in all the Prophets of Allah (peace and blessings be upon them) - and we make no distinction between them.

(iii) The blood pouring out of Palestine must be equally revenged. You must know that the Palestinians do not cry alone; their women are not widowed alone; their sons are not orphaned alone.

(b) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon.

(c) Under your supervision, consent and orders, the governments of our countries which act as your agents, attack us on a daily basis;

(i) These governments prevent our people from establishing the Islamic Shariah, using violence and lies to do so.

(ii) These governments give us a taste of humiliation, and places us in a large prison of fear and subdual.

(iii) These governments steal our Ummah's wealth and sell them to you at a paltry price.

(iv) These governments have surrendered to the Jews, and handed them most of Palestine, acknowledging the existence of their state over the dismembered limbs of their own people.

(v) The removal of these governments is an obligation upon us, and a necessary step to free the Ummah, to make the Shariah the supreme law and to regain Palestine. And our fight against these governments is not separate from out fight against you.

(d) You steal our wealth and oil at paltry prices because of you international influence and military threats. This theft is indeed the biggest theft ever witnessed by mankind in the history of the world.

(e) Your forces occupy our countries; you spread your military bases throughout them; you corrupt our lands, and you besiege our sanctities, to protect the security of the Jews and to ensure the continuity of your pillage of our treasures.

(f) You have starved the Muslims of Iraq, where children die every day. It is a wonder that more than 1.5 million Iraqi children have died as a result of your sanctions, and you did not show concern. Yet when 3000 of your people died, the entire world rises and has not yet sat down.

(g) You have supported the Jews in their idea that Jerusalem is their eternal capital, and agreed to move your embassy there. With your help and under your protection, the Israelis are planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque. Under the protection of your weapons, Sharon entered the Al-Aqsa mosque, to pollute it as a preparation to capture and destroy it.

(2) These tragedies and calamities are only a few examples of your oppression and aggression against us. It is commanded by our religion and intellect that the oppressed have a right to return the aggression. Do not await anything from us but Jihad, resistance and revenge. Is it in any way rational to expect that after America has attacked us for more than half a century, that we will then leave her to live in security and peace?!!

(3) You may then dispute that all the above does not justify aggression against civilians, for crimes they did not commit and offenses in which they did not partake:

(a) This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. Thus the American people have chosen, consented to, and affirmed their support for the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, the occupation and usurpation of their land, and its continuous killing, torture, punishment and expulsion of the Palestinians. The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want.

(b) The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets which ensure the blockade of Iraq. These tax dollars are given to Israel for it to continue to attack us and penetrate our lands. So the American people are the ones who fund the attacks against us, and they are the ones who oversee the expenditure of these monies in the way they wish, through their elected candidates.

(c) Also the American army is part of the American people. It is this very same people who are shamelessly helping the Jews fight against us.

(d) The American people are the ones who employ both their men and their women in the American Forces which attack us.

(e) This is why the American people cannot be not innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us.

(f) Allah, the Almighty, legislated the permission and the option to take revenge. Thus, if we are attacked, then we have the right to attack back. Whoever has destroyed our villages and towns, then we have the right to destroy their villages and towns. Whoever has stolen our wealth, then we have the right to destroy their economy. And whoever has killed our civilians, then we have the right to kill theirs.

The American Government and press still refuses to answer the question:

Why did they attack us in New York and Washington?

If Sharon is a man of peace in the eyes of Bush, then we are also men of peace!!! America does not understand the language of manners and principles, so we are addressing it using the language it understands.

BEATINGU
09-14-2012, 05:55 PM
I like how you deleted

"Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?" and purposefully tried to ignore the religious aspects of the letter in an attempt to be decieftful


Just for the record, here is Osama bin Laden's 'letter to America' (partial): http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

BEATINGU
09-14-2012, 05:58 PM
ANd if we keep staying there and getting in their affairs, thats what will happen. Do you think these fools have the power to attack us and invade us?

What do you mean have to power to invade us?

All they have to do is get on a plane and they can come here to commit terrorist attacks. How do you think the 9/11 terrorists got here?

BEATINGU
09-14-2012, 06:00 PM
Again the video is merely an excuse.

These people (extremists) will use any excuse to kill a westerner.
This is to some of them a goldmine opportunity to play the victim card and act like animals so they take it.


Right the thousands of people in over a dozen Muslim countries aren't really angry about this video at all. They just secretly all planned to use this video as an excuse to attack embassies which they were all going to do anyway

trollspooge
09-14-2012, 06:00 PM
I like how you deleted

"Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?" and purposefully tried to ignore the religious aspects of the letter in an attempt to be decieftful

It's in the link? I thought Q1 was pretty religious? I'll post it if you want, but left it out to keep it from being too long.


(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.

(a) The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them - peace be upon them all.

It is to this religion that we call you; the seal of all the previous religions. It is the religion of Unification of God, sincerity, the best of manners, righteousness, mercy, honour, purity, and piety. It is the religion of showing kindness to others, establishing justice between them, granting them their rights, and defending the oppressed and the persecuted. It is the religion of enjoining the good and forbidding the evil with the hand, tongue and heart. It is the religion of Jihad in the way of Allah so that Allah's Word and religion reign Supreme. And it is the religion of unity and agreement on the obedience to Allah, and total equality between all people, without regarding their colour, sex, or language.

(b) It is the religion whose book - the Quran - will remained preserved and unchanged, after the other Divine books and messages have been changed. The Quran is the miracle until the Day of Judgment. Allah has challenged anyone to bring a book like the Quran or even ten verses like it.

(2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you.

(a) We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest.

We call you to all of this that you may be freed from that which you have become caught up in; that you may be freed from the deceptive lies that you are a great nation, that your leaders spread amongst you to conceal from you the despicable state to which you have reached.

(b) It is saddening to tell you that you are the worst civilization witnessed by the history of mankind:

(i) You are the nation who, rather than ruling by the Shariah of Allah in its Constitution and Laws, choose to invent your own laws as you will and desire. You separate religion from your policies, contradicting the pure nature which affirms Absolute Authority to the Lord and your Creator. You flee from the embarrassing question posed to you: How is it possible for Allah the Almighty to create His creation, grant them power over all the creatures and land, grant them all the amenities of life, and then deny them that which they are most in need of: knowledge of the laws which govern their lives?

(ii) You are the nation that permits Usury, which has been forbidden by all the religions. Yet you build your economy and investments on Usury. As a result of this, in all its different forms and guises, the Jews have taken control of your economy, through which they have then taken control of your media, and now control all aspects of your life making you their servants and achieving their aims at your expense; precisely what Benjamin Franklin warned you against.

(iii) You are a nation that permits the production, trading and usage of intoxicants. You also permit drugs, and only forbid the trade of them, even though your nation is the largest consumer of them.

(iv) You are a nation that permits acts of immorality, and you consider them to be pillars of personal freedom. You have continued to sink down this abyss from level to level until incest has spread amongst you, in the face of which neither your sense of honour nor your laws object.

Who can forget your President Clinton's immoral acts committed in the official Oval office? After that you did not even bring him to account, other than that he 'made a mistake', after which everything passed with no punishment. Is there a worse kind of event for which your name will go down in history and remembered by nations?

(v) You are a nation that permits gambling in its all forms. The companies practice this as well, resulting in the investments becoming active and the criminals becoming rich.

(vi) You are a nation that exploits women like consumer products or advertising tools calling upon customers to purchase them. You use women to serve passengers, visitors, and strangers to increase your profit margins. You then rant that you support the liberation of women.

(vii) You are a nation that practices the trade of sex in all its forms, directly and indirectly. Giant corporations and establishments are established on this, under the name of art, entertainment, tourism and freedom, and other deceptive names you attribute to it.

(viii) And because of all this, you have been described in history as a nation that spreads diseases that were unknown to man in the past. Go ahead and boast to the nations of man, that you brought them AIDS as a Satanic American Invention.

(xi) You have destroyed nature with your industrial waste and gases more than any other nation in history. Despite this, you refuse to sign the Kyoto agreement so that you can secure the profit of your greedy companies and*industries.

(x) Your law is the law of the rich and wealthy people, who hold sway in their political parties, and fund their election campaigns with their gifts. Behind them stand the Jews, who control your policies, media and economy.

(xi) That which you are singled out for in the history of mankind, is that you have used your force to destroy mankind more than any other nation in history; not to defend principles and values, but to hasten to secure your interests and profits. You who dropped a nuclear bomb on Japan, even though Japan was ready to negotiate an end to the war. How many acts of oppression, tyranny and injustice have you carried out, O callers to freedom?

(xii) Let us not forget one of your major characteristics: your duality in both manners and values; your hypocrisy in manners and principles. All*manners, principles and values have two scales: one for you and one for the others.

(a)The freedom and democracy that you call to is for yourselves and for white race only; as for the rest of the world, you impose upon them your monstrous, destructive policies and Governments, which you call the 'American friends'. Yet you prevent them from establishing democracies. When the Islamic party in Algeria wanted to practice democracy and they won the election, you unleashed your agents in the Algerian army onto them, and to attack them with tanks and guns, to imprison them and torture them - a new lesson from the 'American book of democracy'!!!

(b)Your policy on prohibiting and forcibly removing weapons of mass destruction to ensure world peace: it only applies to those countries which you do not permit to possess such weapons. As for the countries you consent to, such as Israel, then they are allowed to keep and use such weapons to defend their security. Anyone else who you suspect might be manufacturing or keeping these kinds of weapons, you call them criminals and you take military action against them.

(c)You are the last ones to respect the resolutions and policies of International Law, yet you claim to want to selectively punish anyone else who does the same. Israel has for more than 50 years been pushing UN resolutions and rules against the wall with the full support of America.

(d)As for the war criminals which you censure and form criminal courts for - you shamelessly ask that your own are granted immunity!! However, history will not forget the war crimes that you committed against the Muslims and the rest of the world; those you have killed in Japan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Lebanon and Iraq will remain a shame that you will never be able to escape. It will suffice to remind you of your latest war crimes in Afghanistan, in which densely populated innocent civilian villages were destroyed, bombs were dropped on mosques causing the roof of the mosque to come crashing down on the heads of the Muslims praying inside. You are the ones who broke the agreement with the Mujahideen when they left Qunduz, bombing them in Jangi fort, and killing more than 1,000 of your prisoners through suffocation and thirst. Allah alone knows how many people have died by torture at the hands of you and your agents. Your planes remain in the Afghan skies, looking for anyone remotely suspicious.

(e)You have claimed to be the vanguards of Human Rights, and your Ministry of Foreign affairs issues annual reports containing statistics of those countries that violate any Human Rights. However, all these things vanished when the Mujahideen hit you, and you then implemented the methods of the same documented governments that you used to curse. In America, you captured thousands the Muslims and Arabs, took them into custody with neither reason, court trial, nor even disclosing their names. You issued newer, harsher laws.

What happens in Guatanamo is a historical embarrassment to America and its values, and it screams into your faces - you hypocrites, "What is the value of your signature on any agreement or treaty?"

trollspooge
09-14-2012, 06:01 PM
. . . continued

BTW, I'm not saying I agree with him, just posting his reasons for 9/11


(3) What we call you to thirdly is to take an honest stance with yourselves - and I doubt you will do so - to discover that you are a nation without principles or manners, and that the values and principles to you are something which you merely demand from others, not that which you yourself must adhere to.

(4) We also advise you to stop supporting Israel, and to end your support of the Indians in Kashmir, the Russians against the Chechens and to also cease supporting the Manila Government against the Muslims in Southern Philippines.

(5) We also advise you to pack your luggage and get out of our lands. We desire for your goodness, guidance, and righteousness, so do not force us to send you back as cargo in coffins.

(6) Sixthly, we call upon you to end your support of the corrupt leaders in our countries. Do not interfere in our politics and method of education. Leave us alone, or else expect us in New York and Washington.

(7) We also call you to deal with us and interact with us on the basis of mutual interests and benefits, rather than the policies of sub dual, theft and occupation, and not to continue your policy of supporting the Jews because this will result in more disasters for you.

If you fail to respond to all these conditions, then prepare for fight with the Islamic Nation. The Nation of Monotheism, that puts complete trust on Allah and fears none other than Him. The Nation which is addressed by its Quran with the words: "Do you fear them? Allah has more right that you should fear Him if you are believers. Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of believing people. And remove the anger of their (believers') hearts. Allah accepts the repentance of whom He wills. Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise." [Quran9:13-1]

The Nation of honour and respect:

"But honour, power and glory belong to Allah, and to His Messenger (Muhammad- peace be upon him) and to the believers." [Quran 63:8]

"So do not become weak (against your enemy), nor be sad, and you will be*superior ( in victory )if you are indeed (true) believers" [Quran 3:139]

The Nation of Martyrdom; the Nation that desires death more than you desire life:

"Think not of those who are killed in the way of Allah as dead. Nay, they are alive with their Lord, and they are being provided for. They rejoice in what Allah has bestowed upon them from His bounty and rejoice for the sake of those who have not yet joined them, but are left behind (not yet martyred) that on them no fear shall come, nor shall they grieve. They rejoice in a grace and a bounty from Allah, and that Allah will not waste the reward of the believers." [Quran 3:169-171]

The Nation of victory and success that Allah has promised:

"It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad peace be upon him) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it victorious over all other religions even though the Polytheists hate it." [Quran 61:9]

"Allah has decreed that 'Verily it is I and My Messengers who shall be victorious.' Verily Allah is All-Powerful, All-Mighty." [Quran 58:21]

The Islamic Nation that was able to dismiss and destroy the previous evil Empires like yourself; the Nation that rejects your attacks, wishes to remove your evils, and is prepared to fight you. You are well aware that the Islamic Nation, from the very core of its soul, despises your haughtiness and arrogance.

If the Americans refuse to listen to our advice and the goodness, guidance and righteousness that we call them to, then be aware that you will lose this Crusade Bush began, just like the other previous Crusades in which you were humiliated by the hands of the Mujahideen, fleeing to your home in great silence and disgrace. If the Americans do not respond, then their fate will be that of the Soviets who fled from Afghanistan to deal with their military defeat, political breakup, ideological downfall, and economic bankruptcy.

This is our message to the Americans, as an answer to theirs. Do they now know why we fight them and over which form of ignorance, by the permission of Allah, we shall be victorious?

LN11
09-14-2012, 06:11 PM
Right the thousands of people in over a dozen Muslim countries aren't really angry about this video at all. They just secretly all planned to use this video as an excuse to attack embassies which they were all going to do anyway
Thousands of people hate the west.
Thousands of people have heard of this "outrage"
People are like sheep one instance of assault on an embassy will lead to another.

If it was solely the video why do they assail the Embassies of other Western nations that had nothing. Absolutely nothing to do with the video.

D0omsdayPrime
09-14-2012, 06:19 PM
What do you mean have to power to invade us?

All they have to do is get on a plane and they can come here to commit terrorist attacks. How do you think the 9/11 terrorists got here?

Getting a terrorist, which we have done and occupying a country for years is different. Im for killiing the phaggots whot attacked us but what good are we doing getting involved in different affairs. Again, tell me a time table, "fiscal conservative" When does it end. And do you not recognize the unintended consequences? Tell me how 'promoting democracy' is helping poor people in america. Like you say these people are savages and they cant be helped. Do you think theye gonna have a change of heaart and become freedom lovers? No. the same thing will happend. ANother corrupt leader will come in play. Tell me, when does it stop. 700 billion a year!

trollspooge
09-14-2012, 07:10 PM
Good article:

"This is Blowback"

http://azizonomics.com/2012/09/14/this-is-blowback/


All of these things (and many more) have contributed to Muslim and Arab anger toward the United States and the West. Yet the underlying fact of all of these historical threads has been the United States’ oil-driven foreign policy. Very simply, the United States has for over half a century pursued a foreign policy in the region geared toward maintaining the flow of oil out of the region at any cost — even at the cost of inflaming the irrational and psychopathic religious elements that have long existed in the region.

This is not to defend the barbaric elements who resort to violence and aggression as a means of expressing their disappointment with U.S. foreign policy. It is merely to recognise that you do not stir the hornet’s nest and then expect not to get stung.

And the sad thing is that stirring the hornet’s nest is totally avoidable. There is plenty of oil and energy capacity in the world beyond the middle east. The United States is misallocating capital by spending time, resources, energy and manpower on occupying the middle east and playing world policeman. Every dollar taken out of the economy by the IRS to be spent drone striking the middle east into the stone age is a dollar of lost productivity for the private market. It is a dollar of productivity that the market could have been spent increasing American energy capacity and energy infrastructure in the United States — whether that is in oil, natural gas, solar, wind or hydroelectric.

And this effect can spiral; every dollar spent on arming and training bin Laden and his allies to fight the Soviet Union begot many more thousands of dollars of military spending when bin Laden’s mercenaries turned their firepower onto the United States, and the United States chose to spend over ten years and counting occupying Afghanistan (rightly known as the graveyard of empires). It is likely that the current uprisings will trigger even more U.S. interventionism in the region (indeed it already has as marines have already been dispatched to Yemen) costing billions or even trillions of dollars more money (especially if an invasion of Iran is the ultimate outcome). This in turn is likely to trigger even fiercer resistance to America from the Islamist elements, and so the spiral continues on.

The only way out of this money-sucking, resource-sucking, life-sucking trap that is very literally obliterating the American empire is to swallow pride and get out of the middle east, to stop misallocating American resources and productivity on unwinnable wars.

But neither major Presidential candidate is interested in such a policy. Perhaps it is because war is a great profit source for the military-industrial complex, the force to which both the Democratic and Republican parties are beholden?

In any case, we should expect to see much more of this:

I think he's wrong about America's energy resources. We're a very long (and unlikely) way from becoming energy independent.

kusok
09-14-2012, 07:24 PM
Another thread demonstrating why Ron Paul can't be taken serious. Brb US and western embassies get attacked over a YouTube clip which pissed off uneducated retards is a result of our foreign policy.


These "uneducated retards" are well educated in the art of war and are well funded, thanks to US. This was Al Qaeda, not protesters over cartoon. please. Do you think average uneducated retards show up at a protest with an RPG and know how to use it, and plan perfectly a precise attack?

Tekkendo
09-14-2012, 08:31 PM
As soon as America stops acting like the world police and hunting for vast quantities of oil then they will stop making enemies.

The Truman doctrine and the policy of containment started all of his.

I think Al Queda and other such groups are indeed scum..but there is a reason they hate the west..Because for hundreds of years they have been ****ed by it.
How much oil did we get from iraq? Did we ever steal any oil from anyone? Or do we always pay market price for oil?

If we wanted oil from libya, Qadaffi was more than happy to sell it to us. Would have been so much easier to just sign oil deal with him instead.


America will always be a player in international affairs and will always intervene judiciously to counter and check the rise of potential rivals. The international great game is simply unavoidable. Like it or not, we will be engaged in full force.


RP is an old fool who ate up all the propaganda shiete from the KGB during the Cold War. No one in real life believes in his herpderp. That is why he has been spinning the wheel for over 30 yrs and all he has managed to achieve is to troll all these internet fools into drinking his kool-Aid. The old fool proposed this laughable Made In Moscow foreign policy. To sugar coat his traitor foreign policy, he labelled it Non-Intervention. It does not change the fact that it is a policy ordered by Moscow and serves Moscow's interest. Blaming everything on America and sprouting this absurd garbage that the world would be a paradise if only America would just run home and go hide under the bed. This laughable BS was fed by the KGB agents to the useful idiots in the west during the ColD War. The old fool RP ate it all up and has been regurgitating the crap for the moron crew to swallow ever since. The KGB propaganda team created all these CT bs and fed to the CT moron crew. They just swallow it hook, line and sinker. The reality is, in the international arena, America simply has no choice but to intervene and counter the forces of evil. Of course the Kremlin would love to see America withdraw and goes hide underneath the bed. LOL That is a no brainer. Such policy serves Kremlin's interest. Doh. lol

FYI http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htiw/articles/20120913.aspx

In there you will find that all of the world's misery, death and suffering in the last 50 yrs are caused by the evil Soviet. The KGB's propaganda machine has spinned it into something else, and blame it on America instead. RP is just another one of the old fools who ate up the Soviet lies and propaganda.

Most of the policy experts and strategists in both the GOP and DEM camps know this garbage that RP ate up. That is why no one falls for that crap. lol


It is good to see that his son Senator Rand Paul doesn't follow RP's insane footstep. Rand doesn't whore RP's Made in Moscow treacherous foreign policy.

Dave22reborn
09-17-2012, 03:30 PM
The god damn pentagon agrees with him. Are you being serious?

How can you think destabilizing a country doesn't make it easier for militant/terrorist groups to spread?

You do realize that our embassies are being attacked all throughout the middle east as well? Must be DAT DER foreign policy........