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Robosco
09-12-2012, 03:07 AM
I've read this article about a study questioning the benefits of fish oil supplements. Now I'm wondering if I should take low-dose aspirin instead of fish oils supplements.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/11/health/health-fish-oil/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Octpro
09-12-2012, 04:13 AM
Hi, my first post. I am just starting my bodybuilding program but I have been following Paul Jaminet's 'Perfect Health Diet' which has inspired me to join a gym and train with weights. According to Jaminet's book, fish consumption has an excellent record in clinical trials but fish oil does not. Jaminet thinks it is because fish is frozen immediately whereas fish oil tablets hang around for months and easily become rancid and oxidise. The difference has been studied in a major clinical trial.

"In the Diet and Angina Randomized Trial (DART-2), 3114 men with stable angina were followed for 3-9 years. There was a control group, a group advised to eat oily fish, and a group taking 3 fish oil capsules daily. There was a significant increase in sudden cardiac death among the subgroup taking fish oil capsules."

So I've been consuming three salmon steaks a week giving 35 g of protein each averaging 2 g of EPA/DHA daily.

As for low-dose aspirin I took it for ten years from age 36 to 46 and no longer bother; I did not find it helped with anything to make it worth continuing. I do take a rather expensive coconut oil daily. Countries that have a high consumption, due to its short-chain fats, have the world's lowest coronary rates and you might wish to research that.

hammerfelt
09-12-2012, 05:46 AM
I think of heart attack prevention more of removing things from your diet instead of adding things you should have.

While what you should have is important I do not think the "must haves" i.e. essential amino acids/fats can out perform the "should not haves" i.e. processed sugars

I do low dose aspirin on the advice of my Dr., but not sure it does any good.

igillman
09-12-2012, 07:18 AM
Aspirin is a blood thinner which means the blood flows a little bit better and it puts less strain on the heart. That is the theory behind it anyway.

AAOBob
09-12-2012, 07:21 AM
I just read the report on that study (I still haven't seen the actually study) and its not exactly surprising.

People with crappy diets are not going to be suddenly better because they take some fish oil along with those crappy diets.

My guess would be:
Eating clean + fish oil = beneficial (or just eating fatty fish as part of eating clean)
Eating crappy + fish oil = meh.

As for aspirin, I'm on high dose aspirin and caffeine thanks to migraines.

Robosco
09-12-2012, 07:37 AM
I do take a rather expensive coconut oil daily. Countries that have a high consumption, due to its short-chain fats, have the world's lowest coronary rates and you might wish to research that.

The countries who consume a lot of coconut oils usually cook them with vegetables or fish and they eat them with rice, because they are low-income people which makes meat hard to come by. Singapore is a high-income country where Singaporeans can afford to buy meat, they consume a lot coconut milk (laksa, curry, etc.). Their incidence of heart disease are much higher.

If you take a typical American diet and supplement it with coconut oil, it won't make them any healthier. It's not the coconut oil that makes you healthy, it's what you eat with it.

Curry vegetable fish + rice = healthy
Burgers and fries + a couple of tablespoon of coconut oil = are you kidding me?

Robosco
09-12-2012, 07:49 AM
I just read the report on that study (I still haven't seen the actually study) and its not exactly surprising.

People with crappy diets are not going to be suddenly better because they take some fish oil along with those crappy diets.

My guess would be:
Eating clean + fish oil = beneficial (or just eating fatty fish as part of eating clean)
Eating crappy + fish oil = meh.

As for aspirin, I'm on high dose aspirin and cafetiere thanks to migraines.

The study on aspirin is more solid than any study on fish oil supplements I've seen. I'm thinking about switching over to aspirin. The added benefit is it's lighter on the wallet, and I'll be taking only 1 pellet a day instead of the 4 fish oils cap I've been taking.

Garage Rat
09-12-2012, 10:21 AM
Research has indicated an 81mg aspirin helps as said thin blood and prevent clots but i'm not sure to what degree.
It probably varies from person to person because of size, blood volume and all that.
Some research also says that an aspirin helps reduce the chances of prostrate cancer.
Hey for the price it's very cost effective and worth the try.
Surprised about the fish oil study but as we go into the future i'm sure research will uncover other supplements that may not do what they claim.

Octpro
09-12-2012, 12:57 PM
If you take a typical American diet and supplement it with coconut oil, it won't make them any healthier. It's not the coconut oil that makes you healthy, it's what you eat with it.

Curry vegetable fish + rice = healthy
Burgers and fries + a couple of tablespoon of coconut oil = are you kidding me?

Certainly coconut oil is consumed in certain ethnic diets with the healthier foods as you describe but there is good evidence the short-chain fats found in coconut oil at around 58% have heart healthy benefits.

"What do short-chain fats do? They reduce triglycerides and they raise HDL often doubling HDL levels to 100 mg/dl or higher. Their effect on lipids higher HDL, lower triglycerides, and very likely lower small dense LDL and lower Lp(a) is unambiguously positive." I have various links but need 50 posts to be able to post links.

crupiea
09-12-2012, 01:17 PM
I dont take medicine made by the man.

blkbelt42
09-12-2012, 01:20 PM
nope. I'd worry more about a healthy diet.

JoeCannonMSCSCS
09-12-2012, 02:41 PM
I need to read this study but from what I know nothing new was done here. Rather the resaerchers looked at previous studies and cranked out some statistics. One question I have is whether the people in all other studies were also taking cholesterol lowering drugs. If yes, then this might reduce the effects of fish oil and make them appear less effective. Again I need to read the study.

As for aspirin, this is more tricky and I recommend you speak to your doc before you start taking aspirin as a "supplement" for the prevention of heart disease. Aspirin therapy can be tricky.

Corbi
09-12-2012, 03:43 PM
My cardiologist put my on 2 aspirin a day right after my surgery, have been taking them daily for 3+ yrs now. I don't feel any different, but don't feel any worse either and studies have shown it's effective in reducing strokes and heart attacks.

m314
09-12-2012, 04:06 PM
Aspirin has also been shown to reduce the risk of digestive system cancers. Those tend to run in my family, so I've been taking low dose aspirin for a few years now.

Getsum
09-12-2012, 04:06 PM
I take one a day, doctor recommended it. I've also been taking fish oils for over a decade.

rippedsurfer
09-12-2012, 04:16 PM
I've read this article about a study questioning the benefits of fish oil supplements. Now I'm wondering if I should take low-dose aspirin instead of fish oils supplements.



A lot of people think they can eat fish oil and prevent heart disease while still leading a crappy lifestyle - stress, road rage, burgers, pizzas and very little exercise. Fish oil can't compensate for an unhealthy lifestyle. However, when weight lifting, you need fish oil not so much because of its anti-inflammatory effects but because the essential fatty acids are required in manufacturing your hormones, and it increases the levels of unbound, biologically available testosterone by lowering SHBG levels. When over 40, that's way more important! The straight fish oil is way better than the fish oil pills when it's taken with meals, and it's cheaper.

For more info... I am not allowed to post URLs, oh well, here is the article quote:


Sex hormone binding globulin, or SHBG, is a protein found within the blood. In males, the purpose of SHBG is to bind to testosterone, which renders the hormone unavailable for biological processes. Bound testosterone is inactive and will not promote muscle growth; however, bound testosterone is needed to keep your body functioning properly. You may want to increase your nonbound testosterone levels because this will help increase the rate at which you can grow additional muscle mass.

Although studies are limited, it appears that fish oil helps reduce serum levels of SHBG. Japanese researchers tested their hypothesis of various dietary fats with their effects on SHBG, testosterone and nonbound testosterone. Their results prove that fish oil does have an effect on reducing SHBG, although they did not state precisely how much it was reduced.


If you are looking for a good anti-inflammatory without the downsides of NSAIDS, then I recommend checking out Chinese herbs. Aspirin is not such a good anti-inflammatory anyway. It's a pain killer and a blood thinner. Traditional Chinese Medicine works wonders when it comes to chronic inflammatory issues, and it's famous for fertility benefits, which also happen to benefit your testosterone levels, hence why they help with weight lifting for those over 40 years old.

m314
09-12-2012, 04:35 PM
If you are looking for a good anti-inflammatory without the downsides of NSAIDS, then I recommend checking out Chinese herbs. Aspirin is not such a good anti-inflammatory anyway. It's a pain killer and a blood thinner. Traditional Chinese Medicine works wonders when it comes to chronic inflammatory issues, and it's famous for fertility benefits, which also happen to benefit your testosterone levels, hence why they help with weight lifting for those over 40 years old.

Which herbs in particular? Chinese medicine uses a lot of them. I used to be skeptical about herbal medicine in general, but some herbs really do have medical benefits demonstrated through scientific studies.

ljimd
09-12-2012, 04:38 PM
I take one a day, doctor recommended it. I've also been taking fish oils for over a decade.

Same here ^^^^^^^.

IronCharles
09-12-2012, 05:08 PM
I tried taking aspirin as a supplement, but it irritated my stomach. Even enteric coated aspirin, which still gets to the stomach lining through the bloodstream, after it's absorbed in the intestine.

AAOBob
09-12-2012, 06:19 PM
If you are looking for a good anti-inflammatory without the downsides of NSAIDS, then I recommend checking out Chinese herbs. Aspirin is not such a good anti-inflammatory anyway. It's a pain killer and a blood thinner. Traditional Chinese Medicine works wonders when it comes to chronic inflammatory issues, and it's famous for fertility benefits, which also happen to benefit your testosterone levels, hence why they help with weight lifting for those over 40 years old.

Alternative medicine is medicine that has either been not proven to work or proven not to work. You know what they call alternative medicine which has been proven to work? Medicine. Undoubtedly there are some Chinese herbal treatments that work, but then again aspirin itself is an herbal derivative. Chinese medicine is based upon theories no more correct than old European theories about humors and bile.

http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/11/02/tcm-1/

m314
09-12-2012, 06:29 PM
Alternative medicine is medicine that has either been not proven to work or proven not to work. You know what they call alternative medicine which has been proven to work? Medicine. Undoubtedly there are some Chinese herbal treatments that work, but then again aspirin itself is an herbal derivative. Chinese medicine is based upon theories no more correct than old European theories about humors and bile.

http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/11/02/tcm-1/

Some herbal medicines have been proven to work over and over again but are considered "alternative" for political reasons. Some aren't even allowed to be discussed openly.

Chinese medicine is based on ideas that aren't grounded in science. Some traditional remedies do work, though, when tested in controlled studies. A news story came out just this week about a study demonstrating the effectiveness of acupuncture for pain relief. The study showed that the benefits are better than what you get with a placebo effect. Science hasn't shown how it works, exactly, but that doesn't mean it's ineffective.

charlievanriper
09-12-2012, 06:31 PM
I've read this article about a study questioning the benefits of fish oil supplements. Now I'm wondering if I should take low-dose aspirin instead of fish oils supplements.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/11/health/health-fish-oil/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Nope unneeded no interest

AAOBob
09-12-2012, 06:38 PM
Some herbal medicines have been proven to work over and over again but are considered "alternative" for political reasons. Some aren't even allowed to be discussed openly.

Chinese medicine is based on ideas that aren't grounded in science. Some traditional remedies do work, though, when tested in controlled studies. A news story came out just this week about a study demonstrating the effectiveness of acupuncture for pain relief. The study showed that the benefits are better than what you get with a placebo effect. Science hasn't shown how it works, exactly, but that doesn't mean it's ineffective.

For pain relief its fine, and in another study which I don't' have on hand UNTRAINED people performing acupuncture was just as effective as those with training. AKA it was a placebo. What acupuncture people claim though is that it cures disease as well and thats just rubbish.

Ah here we go, a blog on that study.
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/another-acupuncture-fail/

Brackneyc
09-12-2012, 06:44 PM
My cardiologist put my on 2 aspirin a day right after my surgery, have been taking them daily for 3+ yrs now. I don't feel any different, but don't feel any worse either and studies have shown it's effective in reducing strokes and heart attacks.


This^^, and me too. I rather doubt 81mg is going to hurt an otherwise healthy person, but my doc says it is good for me to take them, so I do.

m314
09-12-2012, 06:48 PM
For pain relief its fine, and in another study which I don't' have on hand UNTRAINED people performing acupuncture was just as effective as those with training. AKA it was a placebo. What acupuncture people claim though is that it cures disease as well and thats just rubbish.

Ah here we go, a blog on that study.
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/another-acupuncture-fail/

This is the story I mentioned:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/11/health/health-acupuncture/index.html

They concluded that traditional acupuncture has a greater effect than "fake" acupuncture where they don't put the needles in the right places. That doesn't mean it stops nausea or cures diseases. The effects there might just be placebo. Anyway, the point is that some ideas in alternative medicine do work. I wouldn't trust them to work just because they've been used for a long time, but it's different when there's scientific data backing up the claims.

Phattso
09-12-2012, 06:51 PM
My cardiologist put my on 2 aspirin a day right after my surgery, have been taking them daily for 3+ yrs now. I don't feel any different, but don't feel any worse either and studies have shown it's effective in reducing strokes and heart attacks.


Aspirin has also been shown to reduce the risk of digestive system cancers. Those tend to run in my family, so I've been taking low dose aspirin for a few years now.

Yes, to all these. I take 81mg aspirin every morning and also Krill Oil besides other vitamins and minerals.